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Should ET maps (like Thanatos, Little Hearts, unlimited spark) be allowed for ranking?

Yes
92.04% 266
No
7.96% 23
Total votes: 289
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posted

- R u m i a - wrote:

i agree to rank harder maps. but it needs a proper flow and good reasons.
and NO to just random overmap maps
SO YES FOR ME . +1
YES FOR ME +1
But equally important, they needs proper flows and good reasons
posted
inb4 Tom94 would have a hard time to recalculate these harder maps if these maps would get their deserved place. :roll:
posted
ET maps with perfect patterns just fit the songs
i think it will rank

if the map is just full of overmap, i think it is just wanting to be difficult .not suitable for rank .


so i agree with rumia
posted
I agree with rumia
posted
the lack of hard maps is indeed leading people to leave.

honestly I don't think everyone shares the "technically correct" vision people here have.

We undermap. We overmap. We experiment and make fun stuff with a variety of tools, and other people enjoy those. But it just happens that an entitled person with a bit of power suddenly thinks that those maps are not "correct" as if there was a united artistic vision osu!mania players should follow.

hint: there's none, and trying to imitate what's "correct" in any other game will just cause people to leave, hell, it's already happening! Some people are moving onto LR2, back to O2Jam, still prefer stepmania, etc...

people have different tastes in maps and some people may actually dislike "technically correct" maps or prefer other kinds of maps

and if osu!mania is a clone of other VSRGs with literally nothing new to offer besides the broken rankings it will simply stay stagnated like it is right now
posted
Why don't we just go for approval with ET maps? Lenght of the map isn't a problem, I've seen A LOT of standard maps with even less than 4 mins approved, so there shouldn't be any problem. If map is well done and playable we should be able to get them in approved section.
posted

-Kamikaze- wrote:

Why don't we just go for approval with ET maps? Lenght of the map isn't a problem, I've seen A LOT of standard maps with even less than 4 mins approved, so there shouldn't be any problem. If map is well done and playable we should be able to get them in approved section.
that was theold approved map criteria , the new ones need to be at least 6 mins
posted

-Kamikaze- wrote:

Why don't we just go for approval with ET maps? Lenght of the map isn't a problem, I've seen A LOT of standard maps with even less than 4 mins approved, so there shouldn't be any problem. If map is well done and playable we should be able to get them in approved section.
Approved section in mania is only what Rumia has said but for ET maps to be in Approved section? That, you have to persuade BATmanager or some BATs who have knowledgeable about this Approved thingy.
posted
Voted yes, I like watching these maps if nothing else.
posted
Approved isn't going to happen. Restricting Approved to marathon maps is the first step in eliminating the category in the first place, peppy ultimately wants Approved gone.

I agree with agka on this one. There is no magical 'correct' way to map. If you want to follow the music in a technical sense, then most easy difficulties are wrong, because they very often place notes in incorrect timings in order to simplify the timing for newcomers. Beyond that, you could consider them undermapped too.

Mapping is an artistic expression, and should be treated as such. A map is the mapper's interpretation of the music, not some technical transcription of the music directly into notes. If you want that, go play keyboardmania or something. Or go play an instrument. There is an art to overmapping that people here are not acknowledging.

The single most important thing about a chart/map is whether or not its enjoyable. There are certain qualities that go into making a map fun which still apply whether something is overmapped, or uses some other gimick like teleporting notes, stops, mashes, etc. etc. Making it so that mappers are not encouraged to experiment will discourage the better mappers, and will mean that most maps will end up feeling the same. One of the big draws with o2jam is that many of the most popular charts employed some sort of gimick in a way that made the map unique.

Again there is no 'correct' way to map. What's important is whether or not it's fun and unique.
posted
Ah, this age-old discussion.

Indeed, the lack of incredibly difficult maps is the main reason osu!mania may attract players from other games, but can't make them stay. You mention Imperishable Night 2006 being the sole ranked boss map at the moment. From what I can tell, the 7K Lunatic difficulty on that map is a carbon copy of the Overjoy 2 BMS chart, except with a sprinkle of LNs in the middle. (Which tells us that BATs in this game are totally fine with ranking imported maps from other VSRGs... but that's a rant for another day!) This means that, if they really wanted to play 7K Lunatic, they can download the BMS file and play it on Lunatic Rave 2 or other BMS simulators. There is little justification in calling it a "boss map" when such high-skilled players can find a better alternative.

Of course, the rest of the ranked osu!mania mapsets look - and play - pathetically easy compared to IN2K6. The most difficult set I can think of is Shuffle Heaven, and even the SHD difficulty on that map has players capable of FC-ing, maybe even SS-ing it - implying that the map is still in these players' comfort zone, and nowhere near the challenging, stamina-draining, eye-twisting zone that we want to see. I'm honestly disappointed in how painfully easy some of the latest ranked sets are. It seems as if mappers are only meeting the bare minimum of the ranking criteria, just to attach a scoreboard to their amazing maps where "every player can expect a certain kind of standard when playing [it]".

However, once we start allowing ranking of actual "difficult" maps, I fear that mappers will completely change their attitudes toward mapping, and start creating new maps that are absolutely ridiculous and physically impossible to play. You linked three of Entozer's mapsets, all three of which, by definition, do not possess a full spread in difficulties. Now, let's assume any map ranked under "Approval" can bypass some of the ranking criteria, namely the full-spread requirement. Why would anyone map a full 4-difficulty mapset, when they can make one stupidly hard difficulty and get it approved? I believe this happened some time ago in standard. What this ends up causing is maps with one absolutely insane and expert-level difficulty. Think about it from a rookie/amateur's point of view. There is this one song that you love, and you recently found out that it has been ranked on osu! - only to find that the difficulty/-ies are way beyond your play level. Pretty disappointing and discouraging.

On the other hand, these monster charts actually take quite a long time to create. This is not standard, Taiko, nor CTB. This is osu!mania. Compared to other game modes, we have seven possible positions of notes per timing measure. Theoretically, they take seven times longer to create, compared to monster maps in other game modes. (I reiterate: theoretically. Actual time taken would be around three to four times longer.) Already, you are looking at quite a hefty sum of work for the mapper. I don't know how much of the ranking criteria these approved maps will be able to bypass, but if these maps still need a number of mods before officially being given a scoreboard, that only adds to the total time and effort required for all osu!mania players, mappers and modders alike.

It's a dilemma, really.
If you want to appeal to the beginner/amateur players, rank such maps ONLY if the entire mapset contains a full spread. No one wants to have their favourite song spoiled by some stupidly hard map.
If you want to appeal to the higher skilled players (in other words, make them STAY, and potentially influence them to bring other monstrous players), rank these difficult maps under any circumstance.
posted
I didn't mean to say that the current ranked maps are bad or too easy. There's definitely a place for those first timer/beginner/intermediate maps too, they are equally and perhaps even more important than ET maps because the majority of the players is not ET. I just think we need to start ranking harder maps aswell, the community is getting better at it and we need to start thinking about the real ET guys too.
I have been told part of the problems lies with BATs but I hope with some community effort we might get there too. The new ranking system (even though it is still quite unrefined) is a new hope for o!m imo - it certainly can be - and we as community can only try to make the best of it.
posted
this is very necesarry XD <3 plz ranked beatmaps ETTTTTTTTTTTTT *w* I'm very noob et?
posted

Xcrypt wrote:

I didn't mean to say that the current ranked maps are bad or too easy. There's definitely a place for those first timer/beginner/intermediate maps too, they are equally and perhaps even more important than ET maps because the majority of the players is not ET. I just think we need to start ranking harder maps aswell, the community is getting better at it and we need to start thinking about the real ET guys too.
I have been told part of the problems lies with BATs but I hope with some community effort we might get there too. The new ranking system (even though it is still quite unrefined) is a new hope for o!m imo - it certainly can be - and we as community can only try to make the best of it.
That's exactly my point of view. The new ranking system, although far from perfect, is a breath of fresh air for o!m. I feel like it's time for us, the o!m community as a whole, both us, simple players, and BATs or staff members alike, to make o!m what it really should be after a year of existence.
posted

ishimaru94 wrote:

inb4 Tom94 would have a hard time to recalculate these harder maps if these maps would get their deserved place. :roll:
Hard time? More like less than a second for the algorithm. :P
posted

Tom94 wrote:

ishimaru94 wrote:

inb4 Tom94 would have a hard time to recalculate these harder maps if these maps would get their deserved place. :roll:
Hard time? More like less than a second for the algorithm. :P
I guess more people have similar thoughts like me.
(Edit: If you keep my suggestions in mind, and agree on me, this should not be a problem at all...)


Edit: Removed because it's unrelated to this discussion. Sorry... :o
posted
I'm fine with ridiculously hard maps. This game is supposed to be competitive.
And, good players have no reason to stay here if there's nothing interesting ranked...

So, yeah, there's no good reason to keep really hard from ranking.
The skill cap in this kind of RG is really really high.

And if we're speaking technical stuff, most ranked maps aren't good technically.
Especially the anime stuff >_> I see just random 8ths and some random LNs. Boring patterns too.
posted

Akihiro wrote:

I'm fine with ridiculously hard maps. This game is supposed to be competitive.
And, good players have no reason to stay here if there's nothing interesting ranked...

So, yeah, there's no good reason to keep really hard from ranking.
The skill cap in this kind of RG is really really high.

And if we're speaking technical stuff, most ranked maps aren't good technically.
Especially the anime stuff >_> I see just random 8ths and some random LNs. Boring patterns too.
This.

Anime maps are boring as fuck, no matter how you look at it. ;o
posted
Rank less maps with boom boom shhh shhh put holds to vocals/chords add clap mapping
posted
I think this map is hard too https://osu.ppy.sh/b/258212

Personally I play standard, but the mapping has definitely changed from before to now and the beatmaps have been getting a lot harder. So I don't really see what's wrong with ranking harder maps in o!m.
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