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[added] Make CS/HP/AR/OD toggle-able in Mods

posted
Total Posts
164
This is a feature request. Feature requests can be voted up by supporters.
Current Priority: +4,126
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vantheman
43 posts
Joined June 2013
vantheman
certainly the math the OP mentioned breaks things, but you just need to apply some non-linear scaling as things get further away from the map settings so that there's no making things stupidly easy for huge bonuses. I think the OPs math is too simplistic but also pretty irrelevant, it's the concept of adjust-ability that's important. Bumped this thread specifically because he seemed to word the concept best. For the numbers, just work things so that the current best multipliers are the best that the settings can reach anyway, and only through settings that match the current ones, and the top 50s won't break or come to represent anything false.

-[Koinuri] wrote:

And casual players don't even need any score boosts; competitive players do.
What? I don't understand why you said that. When I play a map with 40k scores on it, and a tiny difference throws me ahead several thousand ranks, the more variety there can be in the scores(such as through the incremental changes proposed) the better. Do you think scores below the top 50 don't matter? If so then the game shouldn't even give any rank at the end unless you get one of those. There's your 50 rungs on a ladder, but I play for the altitude on a mountain.
It's also about, aside from adding more texture to the landscape, mixing things up day-to-day without having the records ignore the play. Ranked play has benefit over unranked even if you aren't in it for the ranks, that being the statistical tracking for a stronger competition with self.
secretly asian
15 posts
Joined January 2014
secretly asian
It would be nice to play some insanes and hards in ar 11 without dt required :p
_koinuri
451 posts
Joined June 2012
_koinuri
I meant casual players don't need boosts as much as competitive players. Bad wording >.>
Someone going from 1000th place to 900th on a map means significantly less than someone going from 50th to 49th, so it's natural to favor competitive players over casual players for score boosts.

The non-linear scaling would still break scoreboards. You have to realize that people going for score aren't looking for ways to make map difficult, but just ways to increase their score. HP, for example, means almost nothing when fcing with high accuracy (unless the spinner is too long), so people going for high score would favor HP 10 with this mod over HR despite the fact that the difficulty didn't increase from no mod in terms of fcing with high accuracy. Eventually the scoreboard becomes how much difficulty they can raise without making maps difficult, and people playing no mod will be forced to use this mod to do absolutely nothing in order to get more points to be on scoreboards. It'll be treated like HD, they just put it on because they give more points even though it doesn't necessarily make the map difficult.
vantheman
43 posts
Joined June 2013
vantheman
ugh, HP drain as it relates to score
don't even get me started

why does nofail give less points when if you're using it you're probably getting less points anyway? why does it give less points when sudden death doesn't give more? why does the game have hp drain at all?

But anyway, the issue you stated, my opinion would be, no increase for increased HP drain, but decrease for decreasing it, seems to be consistent with the game's current scoring treatment of hp drain changes.

I acknowledge it'd be a really nuanced thing to make it fit in the game, but I think allowing players to tweak things to their preferences without losing benefits of ranked play, even if the only fair way to do it is give flat 1.0 for most changes making it harder and big multiplier decreases for changes making it easier, would be a really great addition.
Dumii
61 posts
Joined August 2013
Dumii

-[Koinuri] wrote:

I meant casual players don't need boosts as much as competitive players. Bad wording >.>
Someone going from 1000th place to 900th on a map means significantly less than someone going from 50th to 49th, so it's natural to favor competitive players over casual players for score boosts.

The non-linear scaling would still break scoreboards. You have to realize that people going for score aren't looking for ways to make map difficult, but just ways to increase their score. HP, for example, means almost nothing when fcing with high accuracy (unless the spinner is too long), so people going for high score would favor HP 10 with this mod over HR despite the fact that the difficulty didn't increase from no mod in terms of fcing with high accuracy. Eventually the scoreboard becomes how much difficulty they can raise without making maps difficult, and people playing no mod will be forced to use this mod to do absolutely nothing in order to get more points to be on scoreboards. It'll be treated like HD, they just put it on because they give more points even though it doesn't necessarily make the map difficult.
I believe CS, AR and OD should be the only factors affecting score. Ideally to me, this feature request should be viewed in the angle of splitting the HR and EZ mod up into smaller segments. As HP provides no hindrance to players who are going for high accuracy FCs, however can make the map much easier than intended to be, HP should instead be an unranked change. OD, AR and CS make the map more difficult; OD making it much harder to have a high accuracy, AR reducing the amount of time provided to react to the circles and CS making it harder to aim the circles.

Although I do not have specific values for the score multipliers, using HR, where the score multiplier is 1.06x for an increase of HP, CS, AR and OD, the OD increase would theoretically be worth 1.03x, CS worth 1.02x and AR worth 1.01x.

When using the "EZ" mod as an example, where the score multiplier is 0.5x, the multiplier ratio would be in the proportions stated above.

TL;DR: Should be worth OD > CS > AR. HP should be unranked.
_koinuri
451 posts
Joined June 2012
_koinuri
Well now that we have some idea about how to balance the mod from competitive perspective, we can now look at things from casual player's point of view, since the point of this mod getting ranked score was more to benefit the casual players (for vantheman at least) than competitive players getting more mod to get free points.

First, the HP getting unranked will upset many casual players because no matter how difficult the map is, raising its HP and passing it will give no boost at all. Then the value of OD also becomes a problem. Accuracy only starts to matter when you can fc the map since the multiplier from combo gives way more points than getting high accuracy, so in casual player's point of view, assuming they're only passing and not comboing much, OD is more of a free point. Balancing this mod for both group of players require more work than it's worth imo.

Another thing to note is that AR is more of a preference thing and the difficulty can vary depending on the BPM of the map. Higher BPM means more notes per second, which makes higher AR easier to play since the amount of notes on screen decrease and you don't have to read as much notes. It's a preference because people have different idea about the ideal amount of notes on screen. So putting static multiplier on AR isn't a good idea, and I'm sure peppy would agree since he implemented adjustable scroll speed on osu!mania which is equivalent to AR on standard.

If the setting is adjustable with practically zero benefit/disadvantage, then we might as well remove the difficulty setting on editor and put it in this mod so people can do whatever they want with it, which doesn't really make much sense.

Someone made a program that create new difficulty with adjust difficulty of your entire library (though it'll be unranked obviously) so if you're just looking for quick way to make map a bit more difficult you can use this: t/201768
GhostFrog
416 posts
Joined March 2013
GhostFrog
Would love this as an unranked mod. Would be terrible as a ranked mod (and even worse now that we have decimal map settings, but it was terrible before that).
jesse1412
1,457 posts
Joined January 2010
jesse1412
This can never work as a ranked mod.
buny
3,435 posts
Joined March 2012
buny

jesus1412 wrote:

This can never work as a ranked mod.
yep. too many variables to consider unlike mania where it simply changes the amount of buttons you can press

I'd love a mod like this rather than having to go to editor or pollute my song library with remakes of a map in different settings, and having spectators that can't even spectate because it becomes a different map.
vantheman
43 posts
Joined June 2013
vantheman

-[Koinuri] wrote:

First, the HP getting unranked will upset many casual players because no matter how difficult the map is, raising its HP and passing it will give no boost at all. Then the value of OD also becomes a problem.
Increasing HP drain without point increase is already in the game. Sudden Death, Perfect.
HP Drain is an extremely meaningless aspect of the game, imo, could we not talk about it? The concept of "passing" a song is just an arbitrary performance milestone, separate from either total accuracy or combo length, I think the change would be negligible if passing/failing songs was removed tomorrow.
A performance meter and a graph on the score screen showing your weak spots does make sense, but I feel that "dying" in a game is something a majority of games implement but whole genres of them don't need it to function.

Accuracy only starts to matter when you can fc the map since the multiplier from combo gives way more points than getting high accuracy, so in casual player's point of view, assuming they're only passing and not comboing much, OD is more of a free point.
I don't think I understand this sentence, the way you've phrased it. A casual player sees getting a higher multiplier for making the hit timing stricter as free? That doesn't make sense. Since that's what OD does, it makes FC harder, it makes passing harder, it makes any score at all harder.
Bara-
11,955 posts
Joined April 2013
Bara-
I used to like this
But now I strongly disagree
Just go to editor, save as new diff and modify stats
The closest thing I think might be okay, is a extra menu, where you can set all stats, but, unless it's the normal values, it will NOT be ranked
_koinuri
451 posts
Joined June 2012
_koinuri

vantheman wrote:

Increasing HP drain without point increase is already in the game. Sudden Death, Perfect.
HP Drain is an extremely meaningless aspect of the game, imo, could we not talk about it? The concept of "passing" a song is just an arbitrary performance milestone, separate from either total accuracy or combo length, I think the change would be negligible if passing/failing songs was removed tomorrow.
A performance meter and a graph on the score screen showing your weak spots does make sense, but I feel that "dying" in a game is something a majority of games implement but whole genres of them don't need it to function.
Those are used mostly to make restart process easier for people that want to fc/ss the map, completely different purpose from HP increase which is to make the map more difficult.
But majority of players actually prefer passing difficult maps over scoring on maps they know they can do, and it wouldn't be fair to those people to not experience some bonus for their achievement. Have to consider players from every aspect if you want to add this to the public build.

vantheman wrote:

I don't think I understand this sentence, the way you've phrased it. A casual player sees getting a higher multiplier for making the hit timing stricter as free? That doesn't make sense. Since that's what OD does, it makes FC harder, it makes passing harder, it makes any score at all harder.
stuff

Aqo wrote:

You do realize that in other rhythm games you literally get nothing for non-perfect hits.

For instance the beatmania standard is

Glowing Great (called PGreat in short)
Great
Good
Bad
Poor (a miss)

You get 2 points for PGreat, which is OD11, 1 point for Great, which is OD10, and zero points for Good, which is OD8, anything below is also zero points.

Osu is lenient as hell in accuracy.

Raising OD will make getting accuracy more difficult, but not fc. You literally have to try to miss notes by pressing too early/late because of how lenient osu is compared to other rhythm games around. It doesn't affect passing of maps that much because HP is usually set very low in most maps (6-7 for most insane), getting couple more 100s is not enough to fail you.
In osu!, combo is worth a lot more than accuracy. It basically multiplies combo and the points you received, + a bit more complicated stuff. A person getting all 100s on 400x combos get more point than people getting all 300s on 100x combos for example. So this just boosts points without affecting the scoring difficulty as much as it would on the competitive level. This creates some balancing problem, if the bonus is too low, then competitive players will get upset, if the bonus is too high, then casual players get more points than they should.
vantheman
43 posts
Joined June 2013
vantheman
First thanks for taking the time to explain all that to me, it's more complicated than it initially seems, and it becomes sort of obvious that while not impossible, it'd be asking the developer for a lot of their time trying to make it happen. While it'd be nice, "more" points isn't the exact thing that I want or care about or even the reason I come to this thread, it's being able to play things at higher OD and CS(separate from AR, it's why I can't use hardrock) to challenge myself on those specific points on the maps I enjoy, without losing the benefits of ranked play

So new idea, if all we want to do is incrementally move up OD and CS (or HP for the people who are into that) to custom values, is there a reason to unrank the play? Deliberately leaving AR away from the idea because higher AR is easier for some and that's a good reason to unrank it.
But I don't know why anybody would say a higher OD and/or a higher CS was an easier score so there'd be no reason to unrank it for increasing those in any amount,

so is there a problem with such a mod that only allows increase, doesn't unrank and doesn't affect the multiplier?
Only thing I can imagine is that maybe there's some finer technical point of mapping I'm not getting

Since this is now a different thing, a new thread might be in order, to re-align discussion and let this part of the debate sink, since I consider the "more points" part of it resolved and that's a big part of this thread
Gumpy
2,418 posts
Joined June 2014
Gumpy
Then I would change everything to AR10.
[Kanzaki Ranko]
327 posts
Joined June 2009
[Kanzaki Ranko]
*throws my 24 stars*
Sadolution
73 posts
Joined December 2011
Sadolution
Yes as unranked mod please.
makes it faster then creating a whole new map diff.
Also, would love to use this in multi.

ranked? not an option.
Ash Marley
96 posts
Joined September 2014
Ash Marley
What I would really love is the ability to raise approach rate on any map, but not lower it (not talking about ones you create yourself).

Example:
- A beatmap at AR6:
- Ability to raise it to AR7, AR8, AR9, AR10
- NO ability to lower the AR.
- NO change in points by changing AR.
GhostFrog
416 posts
Joined March 2013
GhostFrog

Ash Marley wrote:

What I would really love is the ability to raise approach rate on any map, but not lower it (not talking about ones you create yourself).

Example:
- A beatmap at AR6:
- Ability to raise it to AR7, AR8, AR9, AR10
- NO ability to lower the AR.
- NO change in points by changing AR.
So what you're saying is that you want the ability to make maps easier with no penalty.
Bobbias
1,447 posts
Joined March 2011
Bobbias
As far as I'm concerned, any changes to these outside the HR/EZ mods should be unranked. It would make no sense to do something like trying to adjust a multiplier based on the specific changes you make (or anything similar). You can argue that we can already do this by saving a new difficulty with altered settings, but nobody wants to have to do that for every difficulty they feel like playing with modified settings. It breaks the flow since you have to enter the editor, make changes, save it, and then go back into play mode. Adding them to the mod menu does nothing more than make this process easier and mean you don't need to add unranked difficulties directly to the beatmap.

Assuming that adjusting these settings makes your score unranked, this shouldn't even be seen as having anything to do with gameplay in the first place. It's really more of a user experience issue. It's already entirely possible within the game, it's just more time consuming and annoying than it needs to be.
Factorial
691 posts
Joined August 2013
Factorial
This will make the game more complicated...
Unsafeman121
60 posts
Joined December 2012
Unsafeman121
Though I can't really see myself using this personally, I can understand that a lot of players may like the implementation of this feature.

However, if something like this is implemented, I would have to agree with Bobbias:

Bobbias wrote:

As far as I'm concerned, any changes to these outside the HR/EZ mods should be unranked.
In my opinion, this would create too many variables in the ranked statistics and the scores could become skewed because of it. If you want to make the map easier or harder in a ranked fashion then the mods available already provide that.

So long as everything remains unranked I wouldn't have an issue and I believe that it could (and would) be a useful feature for many players to have, both for recreational and learning purposes.
haha5957
1,433 posts
Joined July 2010
haha5957
Bumping?

Just mentioning that now the pp system takes AR (although, needs to be 10.3 or higher) to grant extra pp but not for most of common ARs.

CS and OD directly effects map's pp reward but AR doesn't effect PP in pretty much every case other than DTing 9AR maps, and for HP, adding a nofail mod will grant you 10% less pp (which isn't too much to be honest imo).

So here's the question : while pp being the primary ranking system (and the pp system pretty much disregards every AR between 0~10.2), why don't we make AR customizable?

Just give it a same amount of penalty when the AR goes below 10.3 because of this feature.

I honestly think ARs are now more like preferences. While I do have to agree that AR10 somehow requires "reading" ability, I don't think AR7.5~AR9.7 requires actual "skill".

setting a ironed AR value for a "Extra" difficulty map makes it harder for players to fully enjoy the map. Especially between AR 8.5~9.7, it's more like preference (some like higher, some likes lower.)

For some old extremely hard maps with AR9, they feel too slow. However AR10 on some maps(talking about the material, big black, fd, etc) seems to be too much, while they still fit better than AR9, but I'm pretty sure that maps would had AR9.1~AR9.9 if the option was available at the moment.

This will not only help players to enjoy the game more by using AR of their preference, but it will also increase the value of old maps with AR7(which most of people do not like these days) and maps that didn't have decimal AR values as option(like i mentioned above).

although I called it "preference" there definitely are lots of maps that doesnt not have their best AR due to various reason(like AR7 being mainstream, AR 8 being mainstream, mapper choosing AR of his/her own preference, decimal ARs not being available).
GhostFrog
416 posts
Joined March 2013
GhostFrog

haha5957 wrote:

Just mentioning that now the pp system takes AR (although, needs to be 10.3 or higher) to grant extra pp but not for most of common ARs.
You used to get bonus pp for AR greater than 10 or AR less than 8. The recent change made it so you need AR greater than 10.3 or less than 8 in order to get bonus pp.


why don't we make AR customizable?
Most rhythm games do allow you to choose your own value for their equivalent of approach rate, but I think it makes sense for osu! to be different. osu! is only 50% rhythm game. The aim component of the game is what makes it unique and the aim is influenced pretty heavily by AR in a way that doesn't factor into other rhythm games. Choosing an AR for a map is essentially placing a pivot point to balance out two different types of reading ability. On one side (lower AR), you have a type of reading that's more or less specific to aim. On the other, you have ability to identify notes fast/to react quickly (high AR). When rhythm games allow players to choose their AR-equivalent, players end up choosing the highest value they can read and the same would be true in osu! (for sufficiently difficult maps, anyway) because it makes playing the map easier. You say that you don't think that AR7.5 to 9.7 require 'actual "skill" ', but do you realize just how arbitrary those numbers are? To someone who can read AR10.3 fluently and never plays anything much lower, reading AR10 might not require actual skill, whereas anything below 9 will be horrifyingly difficult. Reading any map, regardless of AR or object density, requires some amount of skill, with the amount of skill varying depending on the AR and the map and with there being some balance between the two types of reading skill required. It can be said that AR adds "artificial difficulty" to a map and I think that might have been what you wanted to say. If so, that's a fair opinion, but I disagree with it. The ability to play a map at a certain AR is so closely tied into aim that reading different ARs is a real measure of difficulty in osu! imo. At the values we normally see for the maps we normally play (for example, between 7.5 and 9.7 for you), this is a little less obvious, though I think you'll really start to notice it around the lower end of that range.

I would love to have a mod that changes map settings and I really hope this gets implemented at some point, but it absolutely has to be unranked (or partly ranked with a large penalty). You can't just change the AR and still be playing the same map - and you certainly can't change OD or CS and still be playing the same map either. On a related note, HR is a mess of a mod that does too many things but that's not important to this thread.
jesse1412
1,457 posts
Joined January 2010
jesse1412

haha5957 wrote:

Bumping?

Just mentioning that now the pp system takes AR (although, needs to be 10.3 or higher) to grant extra pp but not for most of common ARs. Bonuses to pp for AR are for AR>10.33 and AR<8 (not inclusive).

CS and OD directly effects map's pp reward but AR doesn't effect PP in pretty much every case other than DTing 9AR maps, and for HP, adding a nofail mod will grant you 10% less pp (which isn't too much to be honest imo). CS affects pp the way it does because it directly increases the difficult, aiming is harder so keeping combo is harder, hence higher CS results in more pp. OD effects pp the way it does because it makes timing a perfect hit genuinely so much harder (and hence it rewards the player for managing to hit the notes correctly, rather than for just holding combo). The only reason AR doesn't effect pp as drastically as the others is because figuring out why lower/higher AR would be difficult on a map and determining the caliber of the reward deserved is very hard (if possible), not just because the difficulty of AR is so subjective but also because understanding why anything to do with reading is difficult is beyond what we currently know how to do.

So here's the question : while pp being the primary ranking system (and the pp system pretty much disregards every AR between 0~10.2), why don't we make AR customizable? We understand the effects of higher/lower cs a lot better than we understand the effects of AR numerically on difficulty, if we can have different approach rates on songs then we should also be able to have select other values. AR is the LEST UNDERSTOOD difficulty modifier, it's difficulty can be very subjective from person to person BUT there is a huge general consensus on certain ARs that are harder than others on given maps. If popular opinion says that something is hard then pp should say that that thing is hard.

Just give it a same amount of penalty when the AR goes below 10.3 because of this feature. "Just give the same penalty when you change the CS."

I honestly think ARs are now more like preferences. While I do have to agree that AR10 somehow requires "reading" ability, I don't think AR7.5~AR9.7 requires actual "skill". See here we again have another diverging opinion, AR10 in my opinion requires absolutely 0 reading ability to me while AR<=9 require godly understanding of the map. CLEARY we can see that high and low ARs require different skills, why should someone who has mastered all of the approach rates over multiple years of playing have their ability essentially made irrelevant just because some other people don't want to take the time to learn a variety of approach rates?

setting a ironed AR value for a "Extra" difficulty map makes it harder for players to fully enjoy the map. Especially between AR 8.5~9.7, it's more like preference (some like higher, some likes lower.) If the map has lower AR and you don't like it that's completely YOUR fault for not being capable, PLAY MORE just like everyone else did to get comfortable at low AR. The mapper made the map with a given approach rate in mind, just like they selected the CS and the drain and the placement of notes, it is part of the experience, changing the AR of the map can completely change the intensity of it.

For some old extremely hard maps with AR9, they feel too slow. However AR10 on some maps(talking about the material, big black, fd, etc) seems to be too much, while they still fit better than AR9, but I'm pretty sure that maps would had AR9.1~AR9.9. If the option was available at the moment. I can almost guarantee the majority of people can play those maps properly would want ar10 on them, it just makes reading them easier. If they prefer the lower AR? Great they have a skill that's beyond all of the other top players, let's not take their skill and tell them that because no one else wants to learn it we're going to make it an avoidable skill to learn.

This will not only help players to enjoy the game more by using AR of their preference, but it will also increase the value of old maps with AR7(which most of people do not like these days) and maps that didn't have decimal AR values as option(like i mentioned above). People may prefer having the ability to change AR yes, but they would also like the ability to slow down the map or shrink jumps. People want to change the AR because it feels easier to them, that's not okay. People should not be given the luxury of making the map easier at will with no penalties when other people struggle through on the more difficult settings and get no rewards.

although I called it "preference" there definitely are lots of maps that doesnt not have their best AR due to various reason(like AR7 being mainstream, AR 8 being mainstream, mapper choosing AR of his/her own preference, decimal ARs not being available). "Best AR" is just the AR that you personally find easiest, I guarantee there are maps you play now and you think "wow I'd like a lower AR on that" but in a few months you will think you were crazy. There is no "best" AR on a map, there is the set AR and it's an obstacle you have to tackle.
TL;DR Changing any values to bend to your whim is ridiculous unless you receive 100% penalization for it.
- Marco -
7,043 posts
Joined December 2011
- Marco -
^ maybe unranked mods? :O
haha5957
1,433 posts
Joined July 2010
haha5957
ok my bad on not knowing about getting extra pp for AR8 or lower lol


~ "Best AR" is just the AR that you personally find easiest
~ If the map has lower AR and you don't like it that's completely YOUR fault for not being capable,



Ok than I should start using AR1.0 on my extra difficulty map and call it "ITS UR FAULT MASTER UR LOWER AR SKILLz" right?

When you map something, people wants to set AR to where you can read it easily.. Try to use AR8 on extreme hard map and let's see what kind of response you get. Have you ever thought why mappers get AR mods? if it's all about ability there should have been tons of AR4 and AR2 maps and there is not. No extra difficulty with AR5 will be ranked because it just does not make sense to most of people.

Now that you called "Best AR is just the AR that you personally find easiest"... of course. And the map's AR is also supposed to be the "Best AR" for most of people.
haha5957
1,433 posts
Joined July 2010
haha5957
sorry for the double post but i somehow do not see the edit button even i hovered over post.



w/e

You are completely wrong if you think mappers set AR to give players challenge. ARs are there for the best fit, not to challenge players. if a mapper tries to troll with AR? the map will not be ranked.

However players are getting unintentionally trolled(when they aren't supposed to be in point of "mapper's view") because old maps tend to have AR7 or lower.
Mismagius
9,237 posts
Joined July 2008
Mismagius
why can't you just accept that mappers want you to play the map this way, you're the player, you shouldn't be able to edit it in any way
some may argue that in guitar hero/ddr/stepmania you can change the speed which notes come

but osu! is a different game and you should deal with it
respect the mappers' choice

also, don't ruin old maps, please.
DT-sama
190 posts
Joined October 2013
DT-sama

Blue Dragon wrote:

why can't you just accept that mappers want you to play the map this way
Because HR already gives me a choice and I like my small-ass circles.
Seijiro
osu! Alumni
3,438 posts
Joined April 2013
Seijiro
If this gets implemented mappers can start mapping with crazy values since the player will use his/her own values.

^ this kind of reasoning is really stupid. What osu!'s mappers do is to grant a good standard for beatmaps. With this feature they will lose some of their merits, which I find really unfair, beacuse mapping isn't easy (try it and you'll see)

I completely disagree with this, sorry
DT-sama
190 posts
Joined October 2013
DT-sama

[-MrSergio-] wrote:

If this gets implemented mappers can start mapping with crazy values since the player will use his/her own values.

^ this kind of reasoning is really stupid. What osu!'s mappers do is to grant a good standard for beatmaps. With this feature they will lose some of their merits, which I find really unfair, beacuse mapping isn't easy (try it and you'll see)

I completely disagree with this, sorry
That's only true for changeable ARs, because it wouldn't be clear how to give it a score multiplier, and I don't support that.
But changeable CS and OD harm no one, give them a higher score multiplier if they're higher than the mapper's default choice, a lower score multiplier if not. There's literally no more encouragement or discouragement of crazy values than there are right now.
Mappers can do whatever they want right now anyway, but you don't see them mapping AR6 CS3 OD5 5* maps and saying "lol just HR it if you want reasonable CS, AR and OD".
And honestly I'm tired of 6* maps locked to OD7/8 for literally no reason, I hate that if I want to play a map "the way the mapper intended it" without ruining the song with DT, I have to downgrade to a non-rhythm game.
Yabuki Nako
99 posts
Joined July 2008
Yabuki Nako
I would like to see something like this very bad... But UNRANKED. In this way, you can make it very simple without thinking about balance.
Actually, I like to play in AR10, but this is annoying to edit my maps one by one. Same thing if I want to play them with CS at 3.4 or/with OD at 10, for exemple.

Basically, what you can do while editing a map but as unranked mods (4 mods = CS/HP/AR/OD), and being able to mix them like you want.
With that, you can play your maps like you want without editing them.

This is interesting for practice too.

I don't think it would be difficult to make.
Dephix
86 posts
Joined February 2015
Dephix
idk
Last edited by Dephix , edited 1 time in total.
[-obee58-]
275 posts
Joined November 2011
[-obee58-]
+2, make it unranked, I don't like having to go in to editor and make separate diffs :u
-Maus-
571 posts
Joined August 2013
-Maus-
Unsup as hell. It's a stepmania rip-off.
Aibou
16 posts
Joined February 2015
Aibou
If this is made, AR should not modify score at all.
HP can change your score, but it only by decreasing it. Increasing HP shouldn't increase your score.
CS should change your score if you're increasing CS, and decreasing it if you're lowering CS.
OD should increase your score if you're increasing OD, and decreasing it if you're lowering OD.

Since people often argue that higher AR is easier to read, we shouldn't reward that.
For HP, the map difficulty isn't really being increased, you're just punished more for mistakes, so it shouldn't increase score either.
CS can increase difficulty, so it should modify score.
OD can increase difficulty as well, so likewise, it should increase score.
-Maus-
571 posts
Joined August 2013
-Maus-

[Aibou] wrote:

If this is made, AR should not modify score at all.
HP can change your score, but it only by decreasing it. Increasing HP shouldn't increase your score.
CS should change your score if you're increasing CS, and decreasing it if you're lowering CS.
OD should increase your score if you're increasing OD, and decreasing it if you're lowering OD.

Since people often argue that higher AR is easier to read, we shouldn't reward that.
For HP, the map difficulty isn't really being increased, you're just punished more for mistakes, so it shouldn't increase score either.
CS can increase difficulty, so it should modify score.
OD can increase difficulty as well, so likewise, it should increase score.
And how do you think OD would be increased in mania for example? Do you think peppy will magically create something that would let the game add LNs AND make them logical and playable?
Aibou
16 posts
Joined February 2015
Aibou

Transformau5 wrote:

And how do you think OD would be increased in mania for example? Do you think peppy will magically create something that would let the game add LNs AND make them logical and playable?
LNs? I don't play osumania, so I could be completely oblivious when saying this, but we could just make it more difficult to hit 300s.
Hemmi
98 posts
Joined May 2013
Hemmi

[Aibou] wrote:

If this is made, AR should not modify score at all.
HP can change your score, but it only by decreasing it. Increasing HP shouldn't increase your score.
CS should change your score if you're increasing CS, and decreasing it if you're lowering CS.
OD should increase your score if you're increasing OD, and decreasing it if you're lowering OD.

Since people often argue that higher AR is easier to read, we shouldn't reward that.
For HP, the map difficulty isn't really being increased, you're just punished more for mistakes, so it shouldn't increase score either.
CS can increase difficulty, so it should modify score.
OD can increase difficulty as well, so likewise, it should increase score.

Modifying AR should definitely unrank, else it would make DT so much easier.
-Maus-
571 posts
Joined August 2013
-Maus-

[Aibou] wrote:

Transformau5 wrote:

And how do you think OD would be increased in mania for example? Do you think peppy will magically create something that would let the game add LNs AND make them logical and playable?
LNs? I don't play osumania, so I could be completely oblivious when saying this, but we could just make it more difficult to hit 300s.
LNS= long notes.
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