This beatmap was submitted using in-game submission on July-04-14 at 3:35:45 PM

Artist: C-CLAYS
Title: Retrospective Kyoto
Source: Touhou
BPM: 117
Filesize: 2735kb
Play Time: 02:32
Difficulties Available:

1. Futsuu (1.55 stars, 284 notes)
2. Kantan (1.01 stars, 148 notes)
3. Muzukashii (3.28 stars, 559 notes)
4. Oni (3.56 stars, 684 notes)

Download: C-CLAYS - Retrospective Kyoto
Information: Scores/Beatmap Listing
---------------
Revived and updated on August 31st! The Oni seems close to perfect, so I'm going to focus on editing the easier difficulties to make'em fit in.
A nice 3/4 song called Retrospective Kyoto by C-CLAYS. A lot of really cool rhythms and such to talk about, but I'll let the drum do the talking.
I found this song in a Stepmania keyboard pack I downloaded a few years ago. I really like how the song carries itself with it's own momentum.
I also suggest using Namco's "Drum" Hitsounds, which you can find here (thread) or here (direct link). The kats with these hitsounds fit perfectly with the snare drum of the song. Turn up the Effect audio for the best experience!
Other Notes

IRC Mod

[Oni]
http://puu.sh/3rRTW.txt

Good luck with this!

Thanks for the help! I learned a lot about pattern selection and finish placement, plus a lot about difficulty spread (despite only one difficulty being there at the time of modding). KD has been given and changes have been applied! Still not sure what I should do about the intro.

Edit: Added intro to the Oni, finished Muzukashii

Edit2: Finished Futsuu and Kantan! Ready to begin modding!

This map is good overall, but I find that the 1/4 finishers can be a bit annoying if they're a different color to the note after or before it (for example, big Don, small Kat, or big Kat, small Don.) Try to fix those and you got a generally good map ready for ranking! [This is for the Muzukashii difficulty of the beatmap.]

Made Muzukashi easier by doing the following...

Made the SV change at 02:06:706 a gradual one to make it easier to read.
Took in Dainesl00's recommendations. I am now following the 1/4 Finish rule in the taiko ranking criteria.
Took out some 1/4 notes to make playing it easier.

Waiting on a mod by Rei, then I will work on editing the Futsuu.

can't mod further orz

[General]
Misc.

1. my mods usually a suggestion
2. this song had some simple section, in my mod i'll mark only in this mod
   1. 00:00:553 - 00:40:553 : Intro section
   2. 00:40:553 - 01:05:168 : 1st Section
   3. 01:05:168 - 01:29:783 : 2nd section
   4. 01:29:783 - 01:54:399 : 3rd section
   5. 01:54:399 - 02:06:706 : 4th section
   6. 02:06:706 - 02:31:322 : 5th Section, basically looks like 1st section.
   7. 02:31:322 - end : Outro section
3. Additional info: it's from Touhou 9.5 ~ Shoot the Bullet
4. About combo colour, it affects "hitlighting.png" during kiai time, i hope it doesn't give too much WHITE for the diff that uses white combo colour. nvm, what i see is don and katu original colour
5. btw, about the first timing section, can you put it without give an offset 1ms away?
6. Invert : turns d to k and vice versa.
7. Switch : A's hitsound => B's hitsound, and vice versa; this can be done with CTRL+G (or reverse selected note)

[Kantan]
Misc.

1. Remove "incrementing speed" timing points on intro, i don't think it'll be known if there's a speed up from 75% to 100% speed.. (including Futsuu, as there's no notes on the incrementing section)
2. sounds unfair that kantan had lesser draining time...

* as each section has repetitive pattern, i'll point first suggestion/mod only, there might be a specific mod for pattern/notes only
00:40:553 (1,2) - i'd prefer k here, as general tone around there are similar..
00:42:091 (3,4,5,6,7) - umm dkddk might fits the song, as there's a "piano" playing up/down tone like that... (suggestion/doubt) [this applies to first section - kiai 1.0x]
00:51:834 (19,21) - for this pattern only, try to put finishes here, there's a "cymbal crush?" ... (i can't describe it.)
01:06:706 (42,43,44) - i heard ascending tone from 42 to 44, ddk or dkk might fits here.
01:09:783 (45) - why did you put KATU here? well, i feel this note have lower tone than previous one, and didn't do a cymbal, try a don here
01:11:322 (46) - this one might fits for a KATU instead,
01:29:783 (61,62,63,64,65,66,67,68) - umm, i think this one is safer? http://puu.sh/3sANN.jpg -- based from piano and snare? (finish per 2 bar/stanza)
01:57:476 (95) - expand by 1/4, the instrument changes tone about 3/4 beat earlier, but starts to decay 1/4 beat later.
02:01:065 (98,101) - the "trumpet" at this note sounds have higher tone than previous one, and have similar one with the next one, try k on both of them
02:32:860 (147) - a cymbal "crush?" again... try KATU ?

[Futsuu]
intro part - did you give some finishes because it have a longer/stronger tone?
star-rating comment - sounds like a low-star muzu for me o.o, because of using 1/2 note frequency is high.. (i think i can't mod it by pointing the main pattern because it needs to be more relax than this, thats all)

as each section had it's own pattern, i'll suggest this based on normal-ish feeling that i get, you can improve it or deny it, it's ok (i'm lazy to put variant mode as i've looked a fixed pattern based here lol)
{1st section suggestion pattern} d k k d k k d kdk d kdk
{2nd section suggestion} although the first four objects that gives nice intro on this section, i think it's better to keep it simple,
example of my pattern: d.kd.dk.dk.dk.dk.kd..k..
{3rd section review and suggestion?} well its coming the slower part, it looks a bit relax but still with this 1/2 it won't be really easy to reach normal *imo*
01:54:399 (257,258,259,260,261,262,263,264,265,266,267,268) - well my suggestion here is about the louder instrument part (can't describe which one lol), turning xxxx into a d k
01:58:757 (269) - this one fits for stream (as the drum follows), and how about removing this ?
01:59:014 (271,273) - removing this might give a simpler one? (can't explain lol)
02:01:835 (280,285) - ^
the rest of kiai might works if repeating the easier 1st section (even i like getting harder overtime )
02:32:860 (368) - put a finish, as cymbal "crush" lol

[Muzukashii]
star-rating comment - ok, you've lowered it, it'll be harder for me to suggest *i think*
1/4 finish at start of triples or doubles are discouraged based on http://osu.ppy.sh/wiki/TRC
note: somehow, if you look this mod backward, you won't be confused on removing some notes.

{1st section} sounds fine...
00:49:783 (40,41) - try to switch the hitsound, if you keep following the snare on kat and/or the song is having ascending tone from (40)->(41)

{2nd section} still triples over triples passing by... but let's see..
01:11:066 (130,131) - cymbal crush around here, try K D ?
01:12:090 (134,135,136,137,138,139) - umm try to make this one a bit simpler like removing (135), and switch the hitsound between (137)<->(138)
01:18:245 (164,165,166,167,168,169) - ^ by removing (165), and like http://puu.sh/3sFgp.jpg ?
01:24:398 (195,196,197,198,199,200) - ^ by removing (196) ?
01:21:835 (183,184,185) - the music feels descending around here, try inverting all of them (kkd instead)
01:28:629 (216,217) - even i heard an instrument around here, but sounds like overmapped in this case... try removing this ?

{3rd section} fine.
01:50:553 (90,91,92,93) - d k k K ? you can try to put (92) an sample/addition drum with clap/whistle, it fits

{4th section} no prob. or suggestion here

{5th section} following 1st section i think, its already good
02:15:936 (193,194) - same case like {1st}'s (40,41) ? (switch the hitsound between them)
02:22:089 (219,220) - try to follow (221,222), its dk dk d k d like tone for me by following the drum...

{Outro section} no prob, sounds good

[Oni]
so fast o.o
however what i hate is a note whenever there's nothing represents the current note, (improvisation? ummm i'm strict about this)
don't forget the oni might not fixed with the 1/4 finish usage limitaion from Ranking Criteria
note: maybe i'm getting faster and "wtf reason", i'm in hurry for now, before the fatigue kicks me; and muzu's note should be taken here lol, that happens to me ... back then *getting confused with NCs and added/deleted notes lol*

{Intro section} umm how about variate the pattern from (42) instead letting kdd and ddd along after X bar (i didn't count it)

{1st section}
00:39:783 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - there's a finish (7) inside the stream... *cough* (on that point, don't forget the Muzu case too, it might'll be complained by other modder)
00:41:963 (14) - overmapped, i couldn't get any instrument that represent this note.
00:45:039 (30) - ^
00:49:654 (54) - ^
00:54:270 (80) - ^
01:01:961 (120) - ^
00:47:988 (45,46,47,48) - when i follow the piano, it gives ddkk instead lol

{2nd section}
01:10:553 (170,171,172,173,174,175,176) - inverting the pattern might fits for the music
01:15:167 (197,198,199,200,201,202,203) - ^
01:16:706 (206,207,208,209,210,211,212) - ^
01:11:322 (176) - until the more finish pattern are rankable, remove the finish here
01:17:476 (212) - ^
01:27:924 (273) - oops overmapped here; (however my reason for those are same)

{3rd section}
01:32:476 (296,323,350,377) - these note are likely overmapped..
01:35:424 (308,309,310,311,312) - dkdkd ? the louder piano note gives lower tone, sounds like descending gradually...
01:41:578 (335,336,337,338,339) - i might point the same thing, but try make a variated one if you want , fixed pattern like previous one are fine
01:47:732 (362,363,364,365,366) - ^

{4th section}
01:55:553 (398,405) - ^
01:58:501 (411,412,413,414,415) - kkddk, it follows the drum
02:00:039 (419,420,421,422,423) - almost i think overmapped around here lol... kkddk as the trumpet-like descending from (419)->(421)
02:05:424 (444,445,446) - i'm not sure about these note, it might be an echo from previous note... umm remove them?

{5th section}
02:08:116 (460,476,500,526,542,566,580) - oops... overmapped here.. ._. sorry

{Outro section}
02:32:860 (595) - ummm finish during a "stream", i'm not sure about this one.

i might not point some rule-breaking/suggestion to some pattern/note, it could be included on other diff or notes...
sorry... also good luck (meh, repetitive song )

I feel like I should jump in a little here not to mod, but to point out some things being criticized.

01:11:322 (176) - until the more finish pattern are rankable, remove the finish here
01:17:476 (212) - ^

Given the BPM, this is more than rankable. There are songs that have double the BPM of this song that use 1/2 finishers (which is equal to 1/4 finishers here) and there are no qualms about that. That rule is highly BPM reliant as far as I'm aware and is left to the discretion of the BAT. If the finishers in this map are mentioned to not be rankable by a BAT, then I'll eat my hat.

01:27:924 (273) - oops overmapped here; (however my reason for those are same)

I actually suggested this small overmap to give closure to this section. Its up to the mapper if they want to remove it, but there was a reason behind it.

Applied all of Rei's edits for Kantan, Futsuu, and Muzukashii Difficulty. Thank you for providing the exact source of the song, as I only know the song from a stepmania file I downloaded in a pack roughly 4-5 year prior.

Regarding your edits to the Oni, I do not believe that "improvisation" is inappropriate for this seeing that the Taiko is an instrument in itself and that the Oni is the most difficult and "full" difficulty of the set. I understand improv being frowned upon on easier difficulties as the main rhythm needs to be catered to first. However, being a percussionist (4 years in school and now continuing as a hobbiest), I feel restricted when told "don't improvise".

I made a few of the edits you recommended, but I do not believe it is overmapped.

Edit: Ninja'd by Tasha. I will keep the patterns in that Tasha has brought up until a BAT looks at it and Tasha ends up eating her hat. The BPM is really not that fast and as the highest difficulty, me being able to play it myself says that it plays it's role as a difficult but reasonable map.

Edit2: Made the futsuu less boring and awkward to play.

oh... i see..
i'll lower it's priority of overmapping/improvisation to point it whether its useful or not
and about finishes well... ... lol at #taiko once more

Artist is wrong. While Kotoge Mai is a part of C-CLAYS, the doujin group consists of more artists.
The correct artist should be K2 since that is the arranger. (examples: https://osu.ppy.sh/s/48721 , https://osu.ppy.sh/s/15156&#41;
You can put c-clays, kotoge mai, gensou bukyoku and shoot the bullet in tags too, since those are all related to this song.

Also let me know when you think this mapset can go somewhere, cause I like Mai's songs lol.

This is what happens when you are half asleep and looking at the wrong song. Never mind lol.
I'll try to dig more cause i'm at least 50% sure the artist should not be C-CLAYS. :3

If you can correct the artist, I would be greatful. The only information I have of this song at all is from an old stepmania beatmap pack I downloaded roughly 5 years ago.

Well, yeah, I am pretty sure it's not C-CLAYS cause they only have one Retrospective Kyoto song which is located on the Gensou Bukyoku album, and that version is a vocal version sung by Kotoge Mai.
I actually ran into this song while searching for the C-CLAYS one, because I couldn't hear your song and just went with the artist haha, but I forgot which one was it, cause I heard many of those lol.

Will dig something up I guess, sometime.

Taiko M4M~
All are suggestions unless in red.

[General]
Disable letterboxing

[Kantan]
00:57:987 (29,31) - add finish? there's the cymbal in the music like at 00:51:322
01:04:141 (39) - add finish? another cymbal
01:32:860 (65) - ^
01:35:937 (69) - ^
01:39:014 (73) - ^
01:42:091 (77) - ^
01:45:168 (81,85) - ^
01:51:321 (89,93) - ^
02:11:833 (113,115) - ^
02:17:987 (123) - ^
02:24:140 (133,135) - ^
02:30:294 (143) - ^
you can disregard the finish suggestions if you feel they're too hard for kantan or don't fit the flow, it's up to you~

[Futsuu]
00:57:989 (60) - finish, etc.

[Muzukashii]
00:40:553 (4) - finish here may be a bit too hard for muzu, consider removing
00:52:860 (53) - ^
02:24:140 (229) - ^

[Oni]
ohmygodthisdiffissooogoodasdfghjkl;

I haven't seen a Taiko map this good in ages~
Good luck with rank~

Thanks for getting back to me on that M4M CQ, and thanks! I made most of the finish suggestions you made, and I'm glad to hear that about the Oni!

I'm not even sure what letterboxing is but I believe it might be unrankable for some reason so I'll remove it.

Updated!

[Kantan]

* 01:17:476 (51,52) - maybe = 01:05:168 (41,42) without finish ?

[Futsuu]

* I heard somebody said Slider Velocity is 1.40 or 1.60 ( could be <1.40 depend on the difficulties ), sorry if it is wrong :3
* 00:14:398 (8,11) - properbly removing finish ? I just thought it is repeat
* 01:56:963 - I think no note here where similar to 01:55:424
* 02:05:168 - could be spinner

[Muzukashii]

* maybe HD, OD increase +1 each difficulites exept Oni starting from 3 ( I usully see this seperation )
* 01:05:168 - I guess it is a bit harder compare to other Muzukashii s but not sure
* 02:03:117 - don ?
* 02:32:604 (6,7,8) - I think bit too sticky with finish

[Oni]

* I don't really have any



I am just wondering the taiko rule of SV and 1/8
However, I thought It is fun to play
Just an suggestion and sorry it can be hard to understand what I am saying

Thank you for the suggestions! I was able to understand the entire mod with relative ease, so don't worry about language.

"I am just wondering the taiko rule of SV and 1/8"

I feel with the slower-than-average BPM, the SV and sprinkle of 1/8 triplets are a reasonable addition to the map's difficulty and enjoyment. I have heard from many people that the Oni is fun to play, and I believe removing these two factors will remove the fun in the map as well, and actually make it harder to read some patterns.

Taiko Mod from OnosakiHito's Taiko Modding Team.
Greetings

Oni
General :
- You should put Approach Rate and Circle Size at 5,because it doesn't give any kind of difference,also you can modify the diff position by doing the following thing.
- OD = 6. Ultimately, OD5 is just free SS,so consider using OD6 o inclusive OD7.
- Disable Letterboxes.

Map
00:05:168 (7) - There isn't any kind of reasonable sound to make it a Finisher,or even a note. Remove the note or at least the finisher.
00:11:321 (15) - ^
00:17:475 (29) - ^
00:23:629 (45) - ^
00:39:783 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - This is pretty hard to read D: maybe you should nerf the SV change. (like instead of a difference of 0,05 of SV,make it a difference of 0,03 .)
Not so much to say about this diff,is so beautiful mapped.

Muzukashii

General :
- As in Oni,use Circle size and Approach Rate at middle (5)
- HP Drain 5
- OD 5

Map :
00:05:168 (7) - Same problem as in Oni
00:11:321 (15) - ^
00:14:399 (21,25,33,37,41) - Finishers missing?
00:39:783 - Same problem as in Oni,i think you should use a SV overlap here but up to you,nerf or erase please
02:06:450 - ^ ,here,the overlap doesn't seems too amazing so is better to erase only

Commentary about Muzu&Oni : I really don't know if your sin is doing the Oni so easy,or if you did the muzu so harder (comparated to Oni,isn't so easy as it should be,i mean,most of the times there is a large difference between an Oni and a Muzu)

Futsuu
General
- CS5,AR5
- HP5
- OD4 ( The minimum permitted is OD4 so raise it)
-Disable Letterboxes

Map
00:39:911 - Remove all those unnecesary green bars

Nothing else..

Kantan
General
-CS5,AR5
-OD4
-HP4
-Disable Letterboxes

Map
00:39:911 - again,disable all those green bars
01:07:476 (43) - this note is snapped at 1/2,which can be easily confunded by newbie players,because they will unexpect a note in that place.(*Maybe a little nazi*
01:13:629 (48) - ^
01:19:783 (53) - ^
01:25:937 (58) - ^
I recently noticed,is my impression or ALL notes are unsnapped? please check this because i noticed here 02:17:476 - lol. (02:31:322 - this is the last unsnapped note) Try to see if other diffs has its notes unsnapped,too,please

Nice song,i liked it alot even though i hate low BPM :OO Nice map too

Thanks for the mod! Lots of good information. I'll try to list what I changed.

All difficulty settings changed (OD, HP, AR, CS)
Finishers in Oni, removed finish, but did not delete the notes
Same in Muzukashii
Added finishers where noted in Muzu
Removed Kantan and Futsuu's green bars

Note about the Kantan: I repeat the same pattern 4 times. The player MIGHT get caught off guard first time it appears, but once they hear how the song plays the note and sees it again, I believe they will be able to play it fine.

Checked for snapping issues, AiBAT brought nothing up about distance snap and I highlighted everything and dragged it off and back onto the gridlines just to make sure. If the notes are still unsnapped, I have no idea how to fix them.

KD given!

I think there exists a tool called "Resnap all notes in time" or something like that,try to search it and apply it,later when i go back to my house,i will check they are snapped.

I updated the beatmap after using that tool on all difficulties.

Revived the map a few minutes ago with an updated Kantan difficulty. I did not have consistent Internet for the past month, so it was hard to get anything done. The kantan difficulty was fixed by providing more breaks for players, changing some hitsounds around to make the remaining notes make more sense, and replacing the dual sliders before the 2nd kiai with a single spinner.

This modding thread has been migrated to the new "modding discussions" system. Please make sure to re-post any existing (and unresolved) efforts to the new system as required.