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Taiko Mapping Discussions

posted
Total Posts
144
lepidopodus
3,548 posts
Joined November 2009
Topic Starter
lepidopodus
At least no one objects opening Taiko mapping thread in here.
Feel free to discuss Taiko mapping techniques, style, etc., or advertising your new Taiko map here, or something others related in Taiko mapping. (Oh, but I won't provide the list of non-BSS Taiko maps.)

Well, I guess we need to something to discuss for start? Then let's talk about 'introducing your Taiko mapping style', first. hmm?

-----

I rather say mine is 'classic styled', old but good and comfortable. Based on old Taiko no Tatsujin authentic style, but I don't really like the word 'authentic' to my style since I don't want my mapping style to be seen as a copycat of Taiko no Tatsujin maps.

Hmm, I'll write some more when something more comes to my mind.
Last edited by lepidopodus , edited 1 time in total.
LZD
359 posts
Joined December 2009
LZD
I still dont have any style of mapping (imo) but I am trying to improve and dont get stucked on the same style.

Btw, I am going to make kantan, so, kantan = 1/1 always? or there are some exceptions?

Good thread lepi ;)
lepidopodus
3,548 posts
Joined November 2009
Topic Starter
lepidopodus
@^: 1/1 always? Not always. It may be boring.

Anyway I do hope this thread continues as a good one.
MMzz
Elite Mapper
3,979 posts
Joined June 2009
MMzz
I've been experimenting with my style a little. Getting a better understanding of keeping flow while putting vocals/melody and beat together. It's pretty interesting, but only works well in the higher levels. (Inner Oni and stuff) Contains a lot of structure changes and pattern inverts, but super fun.



@LZD:
1/1 only on Kantan is bad, it won't teach the newer players anything. You need to incorporate some 1/2 patterns so they actually learn, but make sure it's not super dense. Just occasional.
Yuzeyun
7,622 posts
Joined September 2010
Yuzeyun
I made Anjuu 2/1 with 1/1. Because it's a 1-★ (Read : < 1 ★)

Anyway, I try my best not to be quite harsh on patterns, I map it to my ear and then fine-tune everything. Sometimes, it turns out a pretty bad song becomes more epic.
Fraolinch
577 posts
Joined November 2009
Fraolinch
I don't really know how to describe my style. I think it's still not quite well defined yet and am still... shaping it, I guess.
I tend to follow the drums a lot (when applicable) and mix it up with the lead tracks when it feels like the best thing to do.
When it comes down to pattern length I try getting a reasonable amount of triplets and 5-notes long 1/4's (how do you even call them?) in the middle of 1/2's, with a fair deal of streams. I don't often use overly long streams, instead keeping it down to series of 10+ notes streams.
I also love using 1/6's, but only when it fits the music. Random 1/6's are never a good idea. To me at least.


Also I never learned how to map taiko or anything, I only learned by playing. So everything I wrote probably makes no sense to anyone who has actual knowledge on how taiko mapping works. You know, theory and stuff.
Kuro
836 posts
Joined July 2012
Kuro
I don't have a particular style of mapping. I just map to what I feel. However, that just left me with a bunch of bad maps. Think I'm lying? Check 'em out for yourself. :P

Here's my newest one if anyone is interested --> ALiCE'S EMOTiON - Mami Mami Zone (t+pazolite Remix)
Dolphin
1,167 posts
Joined January 2012
Dolphin
The way I map is to try to make the map have a good flow, and I always make sure that the map sounds good with the music!
I like pretty looking maps as well. :)

So instead of using 1/6 when the song itself is 1/8, i just use 1/4. Because I think there is a better flow. I dislike using 1/6 on songs that don't even use it.
Noobita
597 posts
Joined June 2009
Noobita
noobeatmap #1 mapper yus
XK2238
2,066 posts
Joined October 2011
XK2238
I map everything dominant in the music. Something like that.

said a dumb, people-proclaimed (?) overmapper
Niko-nyan
1,990 posts
Joined June 2011
Niko-nyan
i map just for fun play :) maybe sometimes lazzy / overmap :( (for see my map click Taiko Mod Please) D:
lepidopodus
3,548 posts
Joined November 2009
Topic Starter
lepidopodus

Kuro wrote:

I don't have a particular style of mapping. I just map to what I feel.]
Well that way also can be a style. I'm kinda stick to conformation of patterns though.
lolcubes
osu! Alumni
4,437 posts
Joined November 2010
lolcubes
I am quite new on the Taiko scene (I am mapping/modding/playing since March) so I don't have much stuff to offer or explain cause I lack the experience, but I always prefer if maps follow the music as best as possible without sacrificing gameplay.

As for some maps, feel free to check my pending maps though, they are all taiko (not really going for rank just yet though). :D
aabc271
osu! Alumni
1,315 posts
Joined August 2009
aabc271
I guess my mapping style is quite vocal-based because I think this can fit the music in a comfortable way ?
My aim of my maps is to fit the music naturally by using appropriate patterns & hitsounds.
Usually mapped based on pitch and use short 1/4s rather than longer ones.
And I guess that's why my diffs are usually quite easy with low note density ww
I think I also tend to use more finishes & speed changes than most other mappers ?

You can see how I map here.
In the 2-hr video I mapped 2 diffs ( Yes I know I'm slow )
I recorded this just for testing prolonged recording using OBS, and surprisingly quite some players watched that lol

And btw nice thread, lepi :3
LZD
359 posts
Joined December 2009
LZD
Ty guys for the tips, I'll try to make a kantan for my mapset. :D

@lolcubes: idk that you had taiko maps, I should test it :P
lepidopodus
3,548 posts
Joined November 2009
Topic Starter
lepidopodus
A bit of worry: When I started to map Taiko things, Taiko diff got at least about 1/5 playcounts of equivalent standard diff. Nowadays playcount of Taiko diff is around 1/10 of that of equivalent standard diff, of even less. (Of course, we need to consider that standard diff can be also played as Taiko/CtB/mania mode and except Taiko players, special mode players are tend to play the mode with standard diffs.) osu! community definitely grew up, but usually players who come to osu! don't come here to play Taiko initially. Even with the growth of osu!, I'm afraid that Taiko is being relatively neglected.

Are we really going ok, or is Taiko community in stagnation?
Are Taiko mappers still lack of considerations for Taiko beginners, or it's just not the reason for this?
Many things to be considered.
LZD
359 posts
Joined December 2009
LZD

lepidopodus wrote:

A bit of worry: When I started to map Taiko things, Taiko diff got at least about 1/5 playcounts of equivalent standard diff. Nowadays playcount of Taiko diff is around 1/10 of that of equivalent standard diff, of even less. (Of course, we need to consider that standard diff can be also played as Taiko/CtB/mania mode and except Taiko players, special mode players are tend to play the mode with standard diffs.) osu! community definitely grew up, but usually players who come to osu! don't come here to play Taiko initially. Even with the growth of osu!, I'm afraid that Taiko is being relatively neglected.

Are we really going ok, or is Taiko community in stagnation?
Are Taiko mappers still lack of considerations for Taiko beginners, or it's just not the reason for this?
Many things to be considered.
If I understood it correctly, I think it's because a lot of taiko players play a lot of standar maps on taiko due to get more pp (imo). Also, I think we need more easy taiko specific diffs ranked, I am trying to introduce a friend into taiko and he really hates when the maps he plays isn't ranked.
lepidopodus
3,548 posts
Joined November 2009
Topic Starter
lepidopodus
@^: That's... a good point.

EDIT:
So, more ranked mapset would be a solution, you think?
Hmm, which is the biggest obstacle to make a ranked mapset, lack of mods?
Yuzeyun
7,622 posts
Joined September 2010
Yuzeyun
Talking about that, Mr Color reported that since the implementation of the new diff spread rule, excluding Taiko-only mapsets, all mapsets tend to have less taiko difficulties than before.
Backfire
3,204 posts
Joined February 2010
Backfire
The reason a few of us stopped mapping for rank is because we don't feel it necessary to make the muzu since it's not even our mapset. It's just a guest, a favor even.

I just map however I want. Maybe I only speak for myself, but yeah. I don't agree with the 2 diff rule, nor will I ever.
Cyclohexane
osu! Alumni
4,568 posts
Joined May 2009
Cyclohexane

_Gezo_ wrote:

Talking about that, Mr Color reported that since the implementation of the new diff spread rule, excluding Taiko-only mapsets, all mapsets tend to have less taiko difficulties than before.
It's more like standard mappers don't want to be bothered with Taiko anymore since it's become too tedious and slows down their map.

Full discussion: http://osu.ppy.sh/forum/t/92510
MMzz
Elite Mapper
3,979 posts
Joined June 2009
MMzz
Lack of mods I'd say. We have more than enough people willing to map, but getting mods is a pain in the butt. If more people modded taiko maps would gain priority then get ranked, and maybe osu! mappers would be willing to take more taiko diffs in. This is just how I'm seeing it, might not be true. I always hear about people complaining about not getting mods. Kind of the reason all my new osu! sets have 0 taiko diffs, I just keep them separate to make it easier on myself.
Kokatsu
504 posts
Joined August 2011
Kokatsu
Style: Rather repetitive, sticking close to the drums, sometimes additive/intuitive when there are no drums. I am still trying to get something more thrill into my maps without them being inconsistent in themselves, but I feel that I could do better. :/

Topic: Getting Taikomods is just as hard as getting Standardmods IMO, I never had real trouble getting my GD's checked. Problem with the new rule is that it pushes hybrid-Mapsets to a minimum ammount of 4diffs, normally 6 (ENHI + 2 Taikos) and getting a map with <insert random draintime over 1:30> and that much diffs modded is the pain in the ass.
Kuro
836 posts
Joined July 2012
Kuro

Kokatsu wrote:

Topic: Getting Taikomods is just as hard as getting Standardmods IMO, I never had real trouble getting my GD's checked. Problem with the new rule is that it pushes hybrid-Mapsets to a minimum ammount of 4diffs, normally 6 (ENHI + 2 Taikos) and getting a map with <insert random draintime over 1:30> and that much diffs modded is the pain in the ass.
This^

And you pretty much have to be a famous mapper, be friends with a MAT or BAT, or be lucky as hell to even have MATs and BATs check your map, this includes hybrid mapsets as well.
MMzz
Elite Mapper
3,979 posts
Joined June 2009
MMzz

Kuro wrote:

Kokatsu wrote:

Topic: Getting Taikomods is just as hard as getting Standardmods IMO, I never had real trouble getting my GD's checked. Problem with the new rule is that it pushes hybrid-Mapsets to a minimum ammount of 4diffs, normally 6 (ENHI + 2 Taikos) and getting a map with <insert random draintime over 1:30> and that much diffs modded is the pain in the ass.
This^

And you pretty much have to be a famous mapper, be friends with a MAT or BAT, or be lucky as hell to even have MATs and BATs check your map, this includes hybrid mapsets as well.
I'm pretty well known for my taiko maps, and I am friendly with the whole staff pretty much, and I still have trouble getting regular mods. I even had to open up my old M4M queue to get them.
Xakyrie
667 posts
Joined February 2011
Xakyrie
Style: I haven't mapped an Oni in almost a year, so I can't judge that anymore. I've learned a lot since then so my maps would probably never turn out how they used to.

Kokatsu wrote:

Topic: Getting Taikomods is just as hard as getting Standardmods IMO, I never had real trouble getting my GD's checked. Problem with the new rule is that it pushes hybrid-Mapsets to a minimum ammount of 4diffs, normally 6 (ENHI + 2 Taikos) and getting a map with <insert random draintime over 1:30> and that much diffs modded is the pain in the ass.
Most of the time when I see a hybrid set, they get hassled by the taiko diffs. My recent taikos have been Muzukashiis because the Oni mappers refused to map them or they "didn't have enough time". I'd just say lack of motivation seeing as many mappers are like this. Are we forgetting about the new taiko players though? If we feel that the taiko community is shriveling up, we aren't helping the matter by shutting them out. Think back to the days when learning to play was resorting to easy/normal/hard standard converts. They were definitely hard to comprehend because they were nothing like the completely structured Oni map that was designed for the game mode. Getting better was not a matter of time and it took far too long to reach the Oni level. It was a tedious project. Nowadays it's much easier for the willing taiko players to grasp the design of the game because of Kantans/Futsuus/Muzukashiis. The population of players is actually growing, just the number of maps being output through the ranking system is...not keeping up.
Shiro
Global Moderator
4,984 posts
Joined May 2009
Shiro
Do I count as a Taiko mapper, even though I only map muzukashii diffs ?
lepidopodus
3,548 posts
Joined November 2009
Topic Starter
lepidopodus

Shiro wrote:

muzukashii diffs
That's not important at all, mapping fun and appropriate muzukashii diff can be harder since usable patterns are restricted.
lolcubes
osu! Alumni
4,437 posts
Joined November 2010
lolcubes
I still think it's not that hard to get mods on taiko maps, at least not harder than on standard ones. The problem is to get mods on hybrid sets because most of the time you need to get mods from both sides, which takes more than twice as long, and needs twice as much effort.

A lot of times happens that when a map gets ready to be ranked, the lack of mods kinda delays the process, because most of the time taiko diffs in hybrid mapsets don't get modded properly. The mods are very few in numbers and they usually look like "k here, d there, finish?" type of mods, and without explanation or reasoning they aren't actually helping much, if at all. The idea is to improve the map based on a suggestion, rather than just change something to something different because it might be working as well.

Also, from my experience, I can't really say that it takes a really long time to map a lower diff for taiko as some people might be suggesting. I don't know about others but it takes me a few hours at most, compared to standard where you need days if you want to keep your design interesting visually. An extra hour or two for some small extra effort to potentially promote your map to wider audience can't be bad, can it?
Fraolinch
577 posts
Joined November 2009
Fraolinch

lolcubes wrote:

An extra hour or two for some small extra effort to potentially promote your map to wider audience can't be bad, can it?
Most of the time procrastination and laziness won't be beaten that way.
I know it wouldn't do anything to me. Good thing I don't map to get stuff ranked. 99% of the time.
Kirino Kousaka
655 posts
Joined November 2010
Kirino Kousaka
First time submitted a mapset with own made taiko diffs. Am I a taiko mapper as well? :o
crystalsuicune
6,436 posts
Joined May 2008
crystalsuicune
Not much of a style for me actually,I just map along the rhythm......mostly
Closest thing to a style is how I tend to not add any sliders nor spinners unless I'm aiming for a particular combo number (or when the song needs one)
lepidopodus
3,548 posts
Joined November 2009
Topic Starter
lepidopodus

Kirino Kousaka wrote:

First time submitted a mapset with own made taiko diffs. Am I a taiko mapper as well? :o
No one says you aren't, lol.
Kirino Kousaka
655 posts
Joined November 2010
Kirino Kousaka

lepidopodus wrote:

Kirino Kousaka wrote:

First time submitted a mapset with own made taiko diffs. Am I a taiko mapper as well? :o
No one says you aren't, lol.
yay \:D/
Yuzeyun
7,622 posts
Joined September 2010
Yuzeyun
Only yourself can decide whether you are one or not. If you have uploaded maps, then you care about other modes.
Norbi
82 posts
Joined May 2009
Norbi
I usually follow the background music (drums or whatever is in there), rarely the vocals, I use 1/6 when it fits the map/song, and I tend to use "ghost" notes, but I try to make them to fit well with the song. My kats are usually the higher pitched sounds, the others are the dons. Some of my maps have repetitive patterns, and I mostly map at Inner Oni level. I'm not really experienced to map Muzukashii diffs, but I can do Futsuu maps.

You can find all of my unsubmitted maps on my profile page if interested. (I only have a few submitted. orz)
lepidopodus
3,548 posts
Joined November 2009
Topic Starter
lepidopodus
Let me ask, do we lack modders, or mappers just don't want to intervene?
Yuzeyun
7,622 posts
Joined September 2010
Yuzeyun
Both.
Kuro
836 posts
Joined July 2012
Kuro
If that's the case, then we should start a beatmap project aimed at making more full taiko sets and getting them and many others ranked (We'd need the help of a BAT or MAT to get them ranked though)
Dolphin
1,167 posts
Joined January 2012
Dolphin

Kuro wrote:

If that's the case, then we should start a beatmap project aimed at making more full taiko sets and getting them and many others ranked (We'd need the help of a BAT or MAT to get them ranked though)
Oh my god I would love to join that :)
Stefan
Global Moderator
10,406 posts
Joined January 2011
Stefan
I personally map how I think it works fine. I try to use complex pattern one side to fit and another to give the player a challenging Diff. Mostly I map to the Song but very often I build my own rhythm in.
Kirino Kousaka
655 posts
Joined November 2010
Kirino Kousaka

Kuro wrote:

If that's the case, then we should start a beatmap project aimed at making more full taiko sets and getting them and many others ranked (We'd need the help of a BAT or MAT to get them ranked though)
cool idea owo
Dolphin
1,167 posts
Joined January 2012
Dolphin
When do we start? :p (i kid)
Niko-nyan
1,990 posts
Joined June 2011
Niko-nyan

Dolphin wrote:

Kuro wrote:

If that's the case, then we should start a beatmap project aimed at making more full taiko sets and getting them and many others ranked (We'd need the help of a BAT or MAT to get them ranked though)
Oh my god I would love to join that :)
qoot8123
1,500 posts
Joined March 2011
qoot8123

Dolphin wrote:

Kuro wrote:

If that's the case, then we should start a beatmap project aimed at making more full taiko sets and getting them and many others ranked (We'd need the help of a BAT or MAT to get them ranked though)
we need this project lol!
Yuzeyun
7,622 posts
Joined September 2010
Yuzeyun
You missed your quoting qoot.

Anyway that's one interesting idea, let's gather a lot of active taiko mappers willing to get in the project. Seeing how long it takes me to even get a mod on a map because nobody wants to mod them, I'm not in.
Dolphin
1,167 posts
Joined January 2012
Dolphin
Taiko mods are becoming a lot easier to get these days though. 8-)
Fraolinch
577 posts
Joined November 2009
Fraolinch

_Gezo_ wrote:

Anyway that's one interesting idea, let's gather a lot of active taiko mappers willing to get in the project. Seeing how long it takes me to even get a mod on a map because nobody wants to mod them, I'm not in.
*Drags Gezo along* I'm in!
Kuro
836 posts
Joined July 2012
Kuro

Dolphin wrote:

Taiko mods are becoming a lot easier to get these days though. 8-)
lol, that's because we're the ones giving them :P
Even though I haven't modded anything in a while... >.>
Oh yeah, I still need to mod Love's map.. Guess I'll do it later /o/
Dolphin
1,167 posts
Joined January 2012
Dolphin

Kuro wrote:

Dolphin wrote:

Taiko mods are becoming a lot easier to get these days though. 8-)
lol, that's because we're the ones giving them :P
lol we so pro o/ 8-)
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