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Somewhere to throw your votes [Storyboard Toggle] [added]

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176
This is a feature request. Feature requests can be voted up by supporters.
Current Priority: +1,468
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peppy
19,374 posts
Here since the beginning
Topic Starter
peppy
I should have seen this response coming.

This feature request is still open and good; I just don't want to see this go down the same path as any other time this has been discussed. It seems some people think that osu! is just a competitive game with no heart, and that beatmappers should just be placing hitObjects (hey why don't we return back to 2007 when you didn't even need a background!!).

Hopefully my solution will help out the non-vocal majority of people, while apparently failing to satisfy some that have posted their strong opinions in this thread.

Edit: Also for those complaining about "lag", I will say what I've said forever, and that is to report it in the beatmap's thread. No map should "lag". (Make sure to !faq lag and understand what lag is and how to describe it.)

*locks*

Edit: Okay, I'll actually leave this unlocked, but please refrain from continuing the same argument to the point of destruction. Before you post, consider this argument from a mapper's perspective too.
deadbeat
osu! Alumni
9,218 posts
Joined June 2009
deadbeat
i see no valid reason for this EXCEPT for maps that require a Epilepsy warning. being able to toggle those will be useful for people who it could effect
mm201
osu! Alumni
4,495 posts
Joined August 2008
mm201
Epileptic SB layer? :D
Card N'FoRcE
osu! Alumni
4,058 posts
Here since the beginning
Card N'FoRcE

MetalMario201 wrote:

Epileptic SB layer? :D
Hey, remember this?
_P,[...],p
p: the effect parameter to apply
H - horizontal flip
V - vertical flip
A - additive-blend colour (as opposed to alpha-blend)
How about adding "E" (epilepsy inducing) for an object that may cause epilepsy?

(Also how about something like a "R" (reverse-able) for HardRock too?)
Wishy
2,972 posts
Joined September 2010
Wishy
I still want to know what I'm gonna do when I play on my notebook and have to wait for the whole song to be autoplayed for being able to disable it's SB.
mm201
osu! Alumni
4,495 posts
Joined August 2008
mm201
You're going to cry me a river.
0_o
2,155 posts
Joined December 2008
0_o

MetalMario201 wrote:

Epileptic SB layer? :D
+1
Wishy
2,972 posts
Joined September 2010
Wishy

MetalMario201 wrote:

You're going to cry me a river.
Isn't the idea meant for those cases mainly?
ziin
2,632 posts
Joined January 2010
ziin

Card N'FoRcE wrote:

MetalMario201 wrote:

Epileptic SB layer? :D
Hey, remember this?
_P,[...],p
p: the effect parameter to apply
H - horizontal flip
V - vertical flip
A - additive-blend colour (as opposed to alpha-blend)
How about adding "E" (epilepsy inducing) for an object that may cause epilepsy?

(Also how about something like a "R" (reverse-able) for HardRock too?)
Oh this.
deadbeat
osu! Alumni
9,218 posts
Joined June 2009
deadbeat

peppy wrote:

Edit: Okay, I'll actually leave this unlocked, but please refrain from continuing the same argument to the point of destruction. Before you post, consider this argument from a mapper's perspective too.

Wishy22 wrote:

I still want to know what I'm gonna do when I play on my notebook and have to wait for the whole song to be autoplayed for being able to disable it's SB.
also is nothing good enough for you people >:C
also can someone explain this Epileptic SB layer idea...i'm really stupid when it comes to...well everything :/
Claudia_old
571 posts
Joined July 2010
Claudia_old

Wishy22 wrote:

I still want to know what I'm gonna do when I play on my notebook and have to wait for the whole song to be autoplayed for being able to disable it's SB.
have the replay go at 2x and get over the fact that it's 2~4 minutes of your life

IMO that is a very fair condition and one that I, as a person who generally gets distracted by SB's, am very happy with.

still sucks for the epileptic people, I guess they can just ignore their computer while auto plays through it then disable the SB.
deadbeat
osu! Alumni
9,218 posts
Joined June 2009
deadbeat
also you'll need to PLAY the map once...not watch auto play it, play it
Claudia_old
571 posts
Joined July 2010
Claudia_old
oh, well uh.

somebody should tell us more about the epileptic thing. a friend of mine wants to play, but she's uber-paranoid because she's epileptic.
Waryas
Waryas
I'll try to block the BG with my mind, I'm happy enough that we can switch the skin/sb off.
I'm still interested to see some power players opinion about this.

Also is the fact that we watched the SB at least once local? What if we delete the .db files?
FireballFlame
280 posts
Joined May 2010
FireballFlame
I am against any possibility of disabling SB and skins.
From the perspective of a mapper for obvious reasons.
From the perspective of a player because I want everyone to see the same and have the same chances.
I've always already disliked the "no video" mod for this reason. Why do people have to have crappy computers :?
deadbeat
osu! Alumni
9,218 posts
Joined June 2009
deadbeat

JesusYamato wrote:

Also is the fact that we watched the SB at least once local? What if we delete the .db files?
osz2, can't delete map files
Wishy
2,972 posts
Joined September 2010
Wishy

E-Hooker wrote:

have the replay go at 2x and get over the fact that it's 2~4 minutes of your life

IMO that is a very fair condition and one that I, as a person who generally gets distracted by SB's, am very happy with.

still sucks for the epileptic people, I guess they can just ignore their computer while auto plays through it then disable the SB.
Actual system is way better since I can choose to watch it or not, giving me the possibility to save time and don't have to suffer the stress from playing with very low FPS for then playing with good FPS (notebook talking). Hope we eventually get an option that allows us to do things like we do now, but with osz2. Plus if this gets implemented (I mean the new format) I hope BATs start seriously looking at skins/SBs and all that stuff mappers usually add just to be deleted since it makes the map unplayable for lots of players.
Bittersweet
2,031 posts
Joined February 2010
Bittersweet

Wishy22 wrote:

Actual system is way better since I can choose to watch it or not, giving me the possibility to save time and don't have to suffer the stress from playing with very low FPS for then playing with good FPS (notebook talking).
Ok, peppy will change his mind, put all his work about osz2 in trash and whole community will agree with you just to make you happy.

Hope we eventually get an option that allows us to do things like we do now, but with osz2. Plus if this gets implemented (I mean the new format)
It will.

I hope BATs start seriously looking at skins/SBs and all that stuff mappers usually add just to be deleted since it makes the map unplayable for lots of players. I only agree with this. Feels like BATs dont really care much about skin/sb mods except for max size allowed or missing files :/
Claudia_old
571 posts
Joined July 2010
Claudia_old
cry me a river wishy, I play on a netbook and I don't have problems loading SB's.

on the subject of mappers making skins/SB's, I absolutely love them, although some SB's distract me substantially.

then there are storybords like THIS ONE that make me want to throw bricks at whoever ranked it

anyways...
Wishy
2,972 posts
Joined September 2010
Wishy
Bittersweet, letting users decide whether to play with SB/BG/Skin or not has nothing to do with what's osz2 supposed to do, afaik it is meant to make the submission system work better or something like that, but a consecuence of using that system is that users no longer have access to modify some stuff on maps they download. Nobody is telling him to dump all his work, you're getting it wrong.

And E-Hooker, I almost never play on my notebook, so I don't care (barely play a 3 or 4 days on it), but some people actually play on notebooks like mine or worse everyday, and it's gonna be a pain for them to have to play the unplayable, which is my point basically.
Bittersweet
2,031 posts
Joined February 2010
Bittersweet
All that im getting is that you saying same thing over and over again. It won't change anything about this new system, which in my opinion is a great idea for make both sides happy. If you wanna be so selfish, its up to you, i dont care, im just tired of ready same thing in every of your posts, honestly. If you dont wanna waste 4/5 really important minutes of your life, don't play anymore. Noone is forcing you to.

About ppl who plays with bad conditions: atm I play in a shitty notebook which can barely reaches 200fps. Sb lags me? As hell. If i mind of play lagged once and then free of it? Nope at all.

tl;dr (even if its short): stop to cry.

And sorry about it to the other users ^^'
peppy
19,374 posts
Here since the beginning
Topic Starter
peppy

FireballFlame wrote:

I am against any possibility of disabling SB and skins.
From the perspective of a mapper for obvious reasons.
From the perspective of a player because I want everyone to see the same and have the same chances.
I've always already disliked the "no video" mod for this reason. Why do people have to have crappy computers :?
Did you read the initial post? Are you against my compromised solution?


Wishy22 wrote:

everything
I wonder if I should implement a forum ignore feature..
Also, list the storyboards that do lag you, and your osu! settings. You are quite possibly doing-it-wrong, since SBs should NOT LAG 99.999999999999998% of PCs.
ziin
2,632 posts
Joined January 2010
ziin

deadbeat wrote:

also can someone explain this Epileptic SB layer idea...i'm really stupid when it comes to...well everything :/
There are 4 layers currently:
Foreground - displays on top
Background - displays on bottom, otherwise identical to foreground
Pass - displays if you are currently "passing" the song with good health
Fail - displays if you are currently "failing" the song with bad health

The suggested new layers would be:
Epileptic - displays only if (presumably) a toggle is set in the options that you do NOT have epilepsy and can see flashes >3Hz without having a seizure.
Hard Rock - displays only if the player has the "Hard Rock" mod active, which mirrors the notes' locations, so you can add a storyboard which is contingent on being a certain distance away from one particular note which is not in the direct middle of the play area.
Zetta
334 posts
Joined December 2009
Zetta
Guys, peppy has gone from a flat out "No, fuck you" to a "OK, you can disable both the skin AND storyboard but with a tiny, minuscule catch which will literally only hinder your playing time by 2-3 minutes."

This is a GOOD thing, if he wanted to he could go back to the "no fuck you" mode.

Please stop arguing because it'll only make things worse. :/
deadbeat
osu! Alumni
9,218 posts
Joined June 2009
deadbeat

ziin wrote:

deadbeat wrote:

also can someone explain this Epileptic SB layer idea...i'm really stupid when it comes to...well everything :/
There are 4 layers currently:
Foreground - displays on top
Background - displays on bottom, otherwise identical to foreground
Pass - displays if you are currently "passing" the song with good health
Fail - displays if you are currently "failing" the song with bad health

The suggested new layers would be:
Epileptic - displays only if (presumably) a toggle is set in the options that you do NOT have epilepsy and can see flashes >3Hz without having a seizure.
awesome. thx ziin

Zetta wrote:

Guys, peppy has gone from a flat out "No, fuck you" to a "OK, you can disable both the skin AND storyboard but with a tiny, minuscule catch which will literally only hinder your playing time by 2-3 minutes."

This is a GOOD thing, if he wanted to he could go back to the "no fuck you" mode.
kinda wish he would...so far all this has caused is us to yell at each other
EvianBubble
339 posts
Joined October 2009
EvianBubble
Option to disable storyboard and skins? Awesome :D
As a mapper who has made both skins and storyboards, I honestly don't give a crap about who deletes the SB / skin. If that's how they want to play it, fine. Personally, I think if the SB / skin is the only good part about the map, there is something wrong. Who am I to tell people what do do? Let them play the way they think it is most enjoyable
FireballFlame
280 posts
Joined May 2010
FireballFlame

peppy wrote:

FireballFlame wrote:

Did you read the initial post? Are you against my compromised solution?
I did. It's good as a compromise and I guess if storyboards really cause lag for so many people it can't be helped.
But, for me, lag is the only valid reason to do that, that's why I'm not happy with an option to disable skins being included as well.

There has even been a request for a background toggle as well in this thread. People would be using that and the skin toggle, like they are deleting the files atm, just to rid themselves of any "distractions" (= eye-candy) and use their own custom skins to make it easier to get high scores/records. I was hoping for osz2 to put an end to this tbh. Of course, I am free to do the same, but deciding not to do it automatically puts me at a disadvantage compared to the players who do. It means I have to decide between either playing to enjoy the atmosphere of a map (with eye-candy) or trying to get a good record (without, because it makes it easier and that's what the others will do).
That decision is what bothers me, because I'd have most fun being able do both.
peppy
19,374 posts
Here since the beginning
Topic Starter
peppy
It's not a disadvantage; it's your choice to play in a way which suits you.

Skin toggle in my eyes is more important than storyboard from a playability perspective due to no standards on ranked maps' skins; basically anything goes currently. This does need to change in my eyes.
TKiller
4,390 posts
Joined May 2009
TKiller
This might sound wierd, but I personally think that background disabling option might be helpful too.

I had to delete them for quite a number of times and for different reasons, like too many white/very bright colors, combo colours blending with the background too much (this especially applies to hidden), or, err, general dislike of a background (after all, there are pictures which would irritate you when you're forced to look at them for 30 minutes or something), maybe a mix of those above.

In all the above cases black screen worked just great.

I believe same reasoning as with storyboard disabling might work here too, except backgrounds are mostly random pictures from internet and I think it wouldn't hurt the mapper as much as if I've had to delete the storyboard he took time and effort making.
peppy
19,374 posts
Here since the beginning
Topic Starter
peppy
If I add a background disable function, it will also disable all hit objects, sounds, and osu! itself.
Wishy
2,972 posts
Joined September 2010
Wishy

peppy wrote:

I wonder if I should implement a forum ignore feature..
Also, list the storyboards that do lag you, and your osu! settings. You are quite possibly doing-it-wrong, since SBs should NOT LAG 99.999999999999998% of PCs.
You sure should, thought this forum already had one.

Pretty much every storyboard with constant flashes and somewhat good quality, options = everything disables + low end PC (which actually disables again most of the stuff). Sadly my notebook is into that 0.00000000000002%, and I'm damn sure I'm not the player with the worst notebook ever on this game. I'll eventually get a new laptop since I'm pretty much able to, but I'm sure some people can't just go and upgrade their PCs just for osu!.
Last edited by Wishy , edited 1 time in total.
peppy
19,374 posts
Here since the beginning
Topic Starter
peppy
What resolution, what map (give at leat one sample?), what renderer, what graphics card/cpu, what kind of lag (low fps, stuttering etc.)?
Wishy
2,972 posts
Joined September 2010
Wishy
1280x800, http://osu.ppy.sh/s/20210 or http://osu.ppy.sh/s/23667 for example, about computer specs I got to find out, not sure about them, gonna add them later. Basically I got spikes when the SB goes "heavy", maybe with motion and constant flashes, in rare cases I get constant low FPS but normally I get some freezing every some seconds, which actually makes the game unplayable.

TKiller wrote:

I believe same reasoning as with storyboard disabling might work here too, except backgrounds are mostly random pictures from internet and I think it wouldn't hurt the mapper as much as if I've had to delete the storyboard he took time and effort making.
In fact, disabling SBs would be even more serious than disabling BGs because of what you said, a mapper makes an SB, most BGs are pics taken from http://www.somewallpapersite.com or Google.
TKiller
4,390 posts
Joined May 2009
TKiller

Wishy22 wrote:

In fact, disabling SBs would be even more serious than disabling BGs because of what you said, a mapper makes an SB, most BGs are pics taken from http://www.somewallpapersite.com or Google.
that's basically what I've said
Sakura
osu! Alumni
7,979 posts
Joined March 2010
Sakura

TKiller wrote:

I had to delete them for quite a number of times and for different reasons, like too many white/very bright colors, combo colours blending with the background too much (this especially applies to hidden).
This is unrankable in case you didnt know
Combo colors should NOT be blending with the background on any ranked map
mm201
osu! Alumni
4,495 posts
Joined August 2008
mm201

Zetta wrote:

Guys, peppy has gone from a flat out "No, fuck you" to a "OK, you can disable both the skin AND storyboard but with a tiny, minuscule catch which will literally only hinder your playing time by 2-3 minutes."
^ this.

Also I will be happy as long as this stuff isn't allowed to slip through:

TKiller wrote:

too many white/very bright colors, combo colours blending with the background too much (this especially applies to hidden)
ziin
2,632 posts
Joined January 2010
ziin
I actually think the hitcircleoverlay is as important, if not more important than the hitcircle color.

It just so happens that most are white because people use the default. If you use a light background, I think it will be fine to use a light hitcircle color iif you use a dark hitcircleoverlay.

Wishy22 wrote:

about computer specs
use speccy
TKiller
4,390 posts
Joined May 2009
TKiller

Sakura Hana wrote:

TKiller wrote:

I had to delete them for quite a number of times and for different reasons, like too many white/very bright colors, combo colours blending with the background too much (this especially applies to hidden).
This is unrankable in case you didnt know
Combo colors should NOT be blending with the background on any ranked map
and it still happens :)

And it's also very personal, colour perception differs from person to person, so what is ok for mapper/approver can be hard to read for a different player.
anamorphism
8 posts
Joined December 2010
anamorphism
so i guess i should weigh in even though i'm sure everything i'm about to say has been said before. the two main 'arguments' i see involve storyboarders wanting people to see their work and players that want to have the option to turn them off.

peppy has proposed a solution that forces each storyboard to be viewed once before giving players the option to turn them off.

storyboarders are being selfish for wanting to force people to view storyboards 100% of the time. players are being selfish for wanting to turn them off without giving them a shot.

having played some 500 or so beatmaps, i think there have only been 2 storyboards or so that i've wanted to disable. the majority of storyboards are very minimal, tastefully done and legitimately add some visual interest to the beatmap.

i can't speak for lag, but i can't imagine that 100% of the storyboards lag even the most severely underpowered systems. all games have minimum system requirements. if all storyboards lag your computer, consider your computer to be under those requirements. you should be thankful that you are maintaining the ability to play osu! on your system at the small expenditure of no fail/double timing each beatmap once. you may even discover certain storyboards that don't lag your system at all and that you actually like that you wouldn't have seen before.

if you're a storyboarder that is against this compromise, i can't see why. you're actually gaining one view of your storyboard over the current system. this compromise should just make it so you're spending more time on your storyboards to ensure they don't lag and don't hinder game-play at all. over time, this will make your storyboards better than they are currently, and you may gain more fans that have noticed that your storyboards are the only ones they don't disable because they are made so well.

---

as for me, i'm all about choice. peppy's compromise allows me to retain my privilege of choosing which storyboards i want to see when i'm feeling 'competitive'. he has every right to take that privilege away so i would suggest that everyone not overlook that fact. at the end of the day, this is his product, not ours. if we don't like it, the only thing we can rightfully do is to go make our own osu!, something i'm certain very few of us could actually pull off.
ShaggoN
689 posts
Joined September 2008
ShaggoN
I sereiously LOL'd for what this topic became. o_O
RandomJibberish
osu! Alumni
1,833 posts
Joined August 2009
RandomJibberish
Just noting that I think this is a fair compromise.
Mara
4,907 posts
Joined November 2009
Mara
I would have supported this, but after reading this thread... No.
Takuya
1,691 posts
Joined May 2010
Takuya
By the way, the smaller the osu window size, the less the lag.

(I have an horrible pc and using 800x600,45 fps to me)
Waryas
Waryas
How can you play with 45fps, if i have less than 200 fps I can't play correctly at all. (Yes I can feel a difference between 120fps and unlimited, I run at 3000+ constantly)
Wishy
2,972 posts
Joined September 2010
Wishy
Is human eye even capable of noticing a difference within 120 constant FPS and 2000? xd

You just need not to have freezes, if you have constant 60 FPS it should be fine... at least I played tons of games with FPS limited to 60 or 120 and it was all good.
Waryas
Waryas
60fps is plain unplayable for me, input lag and everything, 120fps i feel the approach circle sometime is skipping frame, unlimited = everything is smooth.
Is human eye even capable of noticing a difference within 120 constant FPS and 2000
Human eye can perceive up to 200 images per second I think but that doesn't really matter as your screen refresh rate limits everything to 59.97-60-120-200hz (depending on your monitor and GPU)
Kitsunemimi
2,188 posts
Joined April 2009
Kitsunemimi

Wishy22 wrote:

Is human eye even capable of noticing a difference within 120 constant FPS and 2000? xd

You just need not to have freezes, if you have constant 60 FPS it should be fine... at least I played tons of games with FPS limited to 60 or 120 and it was all good.
60FPS is absolutely brilliant for most games, but for osu!, it's crap.
Sakura
osu! Alumni
7,979 posts
Joined March 2010
Sakura
Lower FPS cause bigger input delay too in case you didnt know, and +/- 10~20 ms on input delay can be detrimental on rythm games
Takuya
1,691 posts
Joined May 2010
Takuya

JesusYamato wrote:

How can you play with 45fps, if i have less than 200 fps I can't play correctly at all. (Yes I can feel a difference between 120fps and unlimited, I run at 3000+ constantly)
I don't really know how to explain.I'm stuck on vsync and that's my average fps, if I use 120 or unlimited my pointer gets stuck at each spinner (plus, it doesn't get the click input properly)
peppy
19,374 posts
Here since the beginning
Topic Starter
peppy
60fps is only a problem if you are pre-rendering frames (most graphics cards have this set on by default). Apart from that, going higher than 60 is just going to get you a slightly perceived faster update (but with tearing) from no vsync, and more precise click timing. The average human eye will be happy with 30fps due to what they are used to when watching TV/movies. A trained eye will be happy with 60fps, and going higher has very minimal gains.

If you are feeling a difference between 120 and 2000, you are feeling the input delay reducing from 8.3ms to 0.5ms.
Nharox
884 posts
Joined February 2008
Nharox

Card N'FoRcE wrote:

Really, take me back to 2007, when noone complained about anything, and we all played everything without complaining everytime.
This. It saddens me that people these days keep complaining about everything and can't seem to be satisfiable.

I'm glad to hear that we'll be able to turn off custom skins and storyboards when osz2 hits osu! because I have serious problems playing without my default skin. :P A side note to turning off backgrounds, the ability to adjust the brightness of the background/playfield might be useful.
mm201
osu! Alumni
4,495 posts
Joined August 2008
mm201
HAY, I got an idea: a BAT-controllable background dimmer. Then backgrounds won't need to be disableable! :)
eddieee
253 posts
Joined February 2010
eddieee

MetalMario201 wrote:

HAY, I got an idea: a BAT-controllable background dimmer. Then backgrounds won't need to be disableable! :)
Or adjustable combo colours?
Waryas
Waryas

eddieee wrote:

MetalMario201 wrote:

HAY, I got an idea: a BAT-controllable background dimmer. Then backgrounds won't need to be disableable! :)
Or adjustable combo colours?
Or adjustable combo colours?
The reason i usually rename BGs are because sometimes the notes are hard to see even though i use a grayish overlay on my hitcircles.
Fabi
1,130 posts
Joined September 2009
Fabi
Personally, I dont care if it has SB or not, but please, dont just go and put SB to every map. If they are just 3/10 or even 4/10 I really dont care, I do know that they will be somewhat unplayable for me, but who cares? There are a lot of beatmaps to play! ;)
timotmcc
24 posts
Joined September 2008
timotmcc
I haven't read through the whole thread so I don't know if this has been mentioned or not, but you can turn off any storyboard by deleting or renaming files in a song's folder.

Whether there is an official mod or not doesn't change this, so it's not completely necessary but there is also no reason not to do it (it would just make it more commonly used than the handful of people that rename / delete folders)
RandomJibberish
osu! Alumni
1,833 posts
Joined August 2009
RandomJibberish
You won't be able to delete files when osz2 is out, which is the reason people want a noSB mod in the first place
peppy
19,374 posts
Here since the beginning
Topic Starter
peppy
On that note, let me say that every beatmap you modify now will be a beatmap you will have to re-download in the future.
Wishy
2,972 posts
Joined September 2010
Wishy
Seriously? Lol I mass-deleted every hit100/50/300 from my Songs folder, thanks god I've saved every pack.
deadbeat
osu! Alumni
9,218 posts
Joined June 2009
deadbeat
back on topic, how about a no SB download option as well?
peppy
19,374 posts
Here since the beginning
Topic Starter
peppy
How about no? Did you not read my first post?
deadbeat
osu! Alumni
9,218 posts
Joined June 2009
deadbeat
yeah. but don't fully remember most of it. *re-reads*
James2250
osu! Alumni
4,059 posts
Joined July 2008
James2250

deadbeat wrote:

back on topic, how about a no SB download option as well?
Good job missing the point of everything said on this thread :P
dvorak_old
294 posts
Joined February 2010
dvorak_old
I'm so lazy to check whole, so leave this post if there is discussion about this.
Also need option for multiplayer.
We basically don't play same song twice in mp, so need personal option to disable skin and sb ?

nevermind!
Wishy
2,972 posts
Joined September 2010
Wishy
Nevermind :roll:
Last edited by Wishy , edited 1 time in total.
peppy
19,374 posts
Here since the beginning
Topic Starter
peppy
Every time I read a new post in this thread I get this sudden urge to hit delete post and pretend it was an accident.
Wishy
2,972 posts
Joined September 2010
Wishy
Did you really expect to make this post and get everyone saying the feature is absolutely perfect and nothing should be modded since it solves everything? You're a smart guy, you knew this was coming. You know why lots of people asked for this, and you know your idea doesn't solve completly the issue, it was pretty obvious that the BG and hard-to-see stuff was going to pop up (not because of new maps but because of old ones which in lots of cases have hit colors that make it hard to see in it's background). Why don't you just close the thread and add this however you want and see how it works? Unless this whole thread has changed your mind in some way...
peppy
19,374 posts
Here since the beginning
Topic Starter
peppy
I like to see how discussion progresses. Unfortunately most people aren't too good at productively discussing something without resorting to outright rejecting the idea. Or even worse, replying after only reading the first few words of the opening post (which is the reason I made such a remark).
mm201
osu! Alumni
4,495 posts
Joined August 2008
mm201

dvorak wrote:

I'm so lazy to check whole, so leave this post if there is discussion about this.
Also need option for multiplayer.
We basically don't play same song twice in mp, so need personal option to disable skin and sb ?

nevermind!
Grinding for an FC also isn't the objective of multiplayer?
TKiller
4,390 posts
Joined May 2009
TKiller
Just being curious, will these SB/skin disable mods work like novideo mod when you're watching someone play? Like when you have novideo on, the person being watched doesn't, but you still get no video.

Though considering the way this mod is going to disable itself after changing the map, it probably won't. Though being able to disable skin/SB when being really interested in watching someone play the map rather than watching all the disco-lights all over the screen might be neat. Or when your eyes are tired and you're watching someone to relax/etc.
aevv_old
aevv_old

MetalMario201 wrote:

dvorak wrote:

I'm so lazy to check whole, so leave this post if there is discussion about this.
Also need option for multiplayer.
We basically don't play same song twice in mp, so need personal option to disable skin and sb ?

nevermind!
Grinding for an FC also isn't the objective of multiplayer?
Not enjoying the game due to inability to play the map properly is the objective of multiplayer?
mm201
osu! Alumni
4,495 posts
Joined August 2008
mm201
Don't play unenjoyable maps?
aevv_old
aevv_old

MetalMario201 wrote:

Don't play unenjoyable maps?

dvorak wrote:

We basically don't play same song twice in mp,
:(
eddieee
253 posts
Joined February 2010
eddieee

MetalMario201 wrote:

Don't play unenjoyable maps?
dont make silly skins..?

Edit: go ahead make them, tho i aint gonna use them because i want a GOOD score on some maps.
Edit2: oh yes, this idea of first playing a map before you can toggle skin, SB would ruin 99% of random multi games for me... srr to say it
Kert
2,082 posts
Joined June 2009
Kert

Jarby wrote:

The only other thing of note I would like to bring up regarding this is the freedom to automatically disable all storyboards marked with an epilepsy warning. Of course, that could simply end in regular users enabling it, but I still think it's something to consider.
For me this is the only case when I would like to disable SB
Just saying
maay
410 posts
Joined September 2009
maay

eddieee wrote:

Edit2: oh yes, this idea of first playing a map before you can toggle skin, SB would ruin 99% of random multi games for me... srr to say it
Do you happen do check the song folder for skin/SB elements (and delete them if they exist) everytime you download a map in multiplayer matches?

Anyway, I like this idea. The toggle will actually save me some time as I won't need to open the song folder and delete stuff, and I don't really delete skins/SBs before actually playing with them on at least once, anyway.

Actually I only dislike custom hitbursts and spinner backgrounds. SBs aren't much of a burden, except for stuff like Jarto and Strangeprogram...
ziin
2,632 posts
Joined January 2010
ziin

SuperMaay wrote:

eddieee wrote:

Edit2: oh yes, this idea of first playing a map before you can toggle skin, SB would ruin 99% of random multi games for me... srr to say it
Do you happen do check the song folder for skin/SB elements (and delete them if they exist) everytime you download a map in multiplayer matches?

Anyway, I like this idea. The toggle will actually save me some time as I won't need to open the song folder and delete stuff, and I don't really delete skins/SBs before actually playing with them on at least once, anyway.

Actually I only dislike custom hitbursts and spinner backgrounds. SBs aren't much of a burden, except for stuff like Jarto and Strangeprogram...
The point is that osz2 will not allow deletion of skin elements, so this toggle is a workaround.
eddieee
253 posts
Joined February 2010
eddieee

SuperMaay wrote:

Do you happen do check the song folder for skin/SB elements (and delete them if they exist) everytime you download a map in multiplayer matches?
I ask the host if there is some nasty skin, it's not like every skin is bad, but sometimes i just can't play with them... it's not that i dont respect the work that has gone into the skin or SB but as a competetive player i just can't use them all the time.

i think mappers should also respect that...
RemmyX25
osu! Alumni
3,087 posts
Here since the beginning
RemmyX25
I know I said this elsewhere, but god forbid any of you play an arcade rhythm game. Whalt about DDR, Taiko (the two tame ones), as well as DJMAX and Technika, etc to name a few? Half of their challenge is to not get distracted by the visuals. Why should osu! be different?
ziin
2,632 posts
Joined January 2010
ziin

RemmyX25 wrote:

I know I said this elsewhere, but god forbid any of you play an arcade rhythm game. Whalt about DDR, Taiko (the two tame ones), as well as DJMAX and Technika, etc to name a few? Half of their challenge is to not get distracted by the visuals. Why should osu! be different?
bad visuals ruin good maps.
Jarby
2,962 posts
Joined August 2008
Jarby

RemmyX25 wrote:

Half of their challenge is to not get distracted by the visuals. Why should osu! be different?
Encouraging mappers to make distracting storyboards is the last thing we need. And I will always see storyboarding as a visual complement at its best, not a distraction.
mm201
osu! Alumni
4,495 posts
Joined August 2008
mm201
DDR and friends are made by professional game developers who (should) pay attention to balance and playability. Ranking guidelines SHOULD make this true for osu! as well but unfortunately don't always get enforced.
maay
410 posts
Joined September 2009
maay

ziin wrote:

The point is that osz2 will not allow deletion of skin elements, so this toggle is a workaround.

peppy wrote:

If there is a storyboard toggle, there will also be a skin toggle. It will work in a similar way. Kiai is completely out of the question.
... unless I missed something, that is.
OzzyOzrock
5,185 posts
Joined August 2010
OzzyOzrock
No DELETION of skin elements. They're still there, just toggled off.
maay
410 posts
Joined September 2009
maay
isn't it the same when it comes down to gameplay terms
galvenize
919 posts
Joined June 2010
galvenize

SuperMaay wrote:

isn't it the same when it comes down to gameplay terms
For most of the players, it isn't. Skin/SB will just act as unnecessary distraction to those who aim for a good rank.
aevv_old
aevv_old

galvenize wrote:

SuperMaay wrote:

isn't it the same when it comes down to gameplay terms
For most of the players, it isn't. Skin/SB will just act as unnecessary distraction to those who aim for a good rank.
then dont play for rank play for fun!

nvm its not fun to play with retard SB/skin/bg by retard mappers
mm201
osu! Alumni
4,495 posts
Joined August 2008
mm201

aevv wrote:

nvm its not fun to play with retard SB/skin/bg by retard mappers
Then complain to the MP host or start your own game. It's not like they couldn't have also picked one with terrible mapping.
aevv_old
aevv_old

MetalMario201 wrote:

aevv wrote:

nvm its not fun to play with retard SB/skin/bg by retard mappers
Then complain to the MP host or start your own game. It's not like they couldn't have also picked one with terrible mapping.
adding features to stop people playing the game

ok
eddieee
253 posts
Joined February 2010
eddieee
WHY THE F*** is this conversation still going, let players choose how they want to play...

and LoL @ CnF, i just read it now... I play your maps how I want to play them WITHOUT sb and WITHOUT skin, that way i ENJOY YOUR map more... TADAAAAAAAAAAAA there you have it... stoptearsnow.com
Wishy
2,972 posts
Joined September 2010
Wishy

SuperMaay wrote:

eddieee wrote:

Edit2: oh yes, this idea of first playing a map before you can toggle skin, SB would ruin 99% of random multi games for me... srr to say it
Do you happen do check the song folder for skin/SB elements (and delete them if they exist) everytime you download a map in multiplayer matches?

Anyway, I like this idea. The toggle will actually save me some time as I won't need to open the song folder and delete stuff, and I don't really delete skins/SBs before actually playing with them on at least once, anyway.

Actually I only dislike custom hitbursts and spinner backgrounds. SBs aren't much of a burden, except for stuff like Jarto and Strangeprogram...
Actually when we play some map with a really shitty BG/SB/Skin, we tell the rest of the players that we'd like to recommend them to delete everything from the map in order to be able to play it.

BTW, the problem you guys seem to be missing is that osz2 will enforce old maps to be redownloaded if ever modified, so you'll have to play with a possible shitty BG which makes the map just crap. I'd say this system is great if only applied to newer maps (since BATs and MATs could get mappers to take care of that stuff that players usually rage at), but at old maps you can't really do much.

And god damn it, if mappers want people to enjoy their maps, why do you want to force them to play them in a way they ain't gonna enjoy it? I know this is no place to discuss this but you know, pro mappers who are at the same time very experienced players tend to do really enjoyable maps, since they understand how the game is actually played. Mappers who are no good at the game or just never got to the point where you try to get some big achievements, won't understand how some people will play the map. Low level players won't really care about some distracting stuff since the circles are like "hey I'm extra large" and the AR is low, and most of them don't even know they can "turn off" all that stuff, but we can all say that, really, when playing small circle high AR maps, a flashy SB makes the thing just awful. Of course exceptions may exist.
Waryas
Waryas
The only issue that I see is that it's applied to old maps, a lot of people achieved mod records on these by deleting the BG/Skins which will make it unfair to those who will HAVE TO play with BG (and maybe skin if there's no toggle)
Basically rank as much map as possible you can now with HR/DT because it'll be harder to do so with osz2 (unless you have eagle eyes).
maay
410 posts
Joined September 2009
maay

galvenize wrote:

SuperMaay wrote:

isn't it the same when it comes down to gameplay terms
For most of the players, it isn't. Skin/SB will just act as unnecessary distraction to those who aim for a good rank.
I meant it as in between the deletion of skin/SBs and the ability to toggle them off. Other than the fact that you'll need to watch auto or actually play the map once, they're pretty much the same in gameplay terms ('cept that you won't be able to edit backgrounds anymore, I guess...).
RandomJibberish
osu! Alumni
1,833 posts
Joined August 2009
RandomJibberish
The tiny minority of old maps that have truly atrocious backgrounds can be haxxsubmitted better ones, or (if they are too bright) dimmed as this request says.

If you delete ordinary, non obtrusive backgrounds, stop being an arsehole
Card N'FoRcE
osu! Alumni
4,058 posts
Here since the beginning
Card N'FoRcE

eddieee wrote:

WHY THE F*** is this conversation still going, let players choose how they want to play...

and LoL @ CnF, i just read it now... I play your maps how I want to play them WITHOUT sb and WITHOUT skin, that way i ENJOY YOUR map more... TADAAAAAAAAAAAA there you have it... stoptearsnow.com
I don't care.
Don't play them.

Also, I'm about not to support this feature anymore, because i didn't think people would be this stubborn.

JesusYamato wrote:

The only issue that I see is that it's applied to old maps, a lot of people achieved mod records on these by deleting the BG/Skins which will make it unfair to those who will HAVE TO play with BG (and maybe skin if there's no toggle)
Basically rank as much map as possible you can now with HR/DT because it'll be harder to do so with osz2 (unless you have eagle eyes).

peppy wrote:

If there is a storyboard toggle, there will also be a skin toggle. It will work in a similar way. Kiai is completely out of the question.
There you have it.
maay
410 posts
Joined September 2009
maay

Card N'FoRcE wrote:

There you have it.
there's no official reply regarding backgrounds for now, though
Galkan
Global Moderator
2,024 posts
Joined September 2009
Galkan

SuperMaay wrote:

Card N'FoRcE wrote:

There you have it.
there's no official reply regarding backgrounds for now, though

peppy wrote:

If I add a background disable function, it will also disable all hit objects, sounds, and osu! itself.
Waryas
Waryas

SuperMaay wrote:

('cept that you won't be able to edit backgrounds anymore, I guess...).
You won't be able to add custom video either by changing the .osb anymore. I added a few videos for maps such as border of xtc when i want to play them for fun...
eddieee
253 posts
Joined February 2010
eddieee

Card N'FoRcE wrote:

I don't care.
Don't play them.
lol you can't force player to not play maps that you submitted.. stop saying dumb things... and accept the fact that with osz2 + the video, skin and sb toggle osu! is the game that is for EVERYONE.. you should be proud of that!

this is the way i see it. this would make osu! by far the most awesome thing ever. everyone gets what they want. I just can't understand that you can't accept that... YOU are the one that is being stubborn...
LuigiHann
Resident Skinner
4,432 posts
Here since the beginning
LuigiHann
Okay guys.

I'm seeing a bit of the same points being bounced back and forth now. I submit that if you've already posted your argument here, peppy has read it, we've all read it, your voice has been heard. That goes for people arguing on both sides.

Not locking the thread, because it's good to see what everybody thinks about this, but as the discussion goes on please consider that if you've already made your point, you don't need to make the same point again. You've already weighed in on your stance, let some other people make their own comments and suggestions now.
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