In this case, can we make backgrounds with large areas of solid white unrankable, and haxsubmit dimmed backgrounds onto all of these?peppy wrote:
I am also strongly against adding a background toggle.
forum
Somewhere to throw your votes [Storyboard Toggle] [added]
posted
Total Posts
176
God guys, what the hell is wrong with you all?
Really, take me back to 2007, when noone complained about anything, and we all played everything without complaining everytime.
Peppy just proposed a really nice way to have a compromise with all the storyboard toggle that were requested in the past (and he wasn't forced to do so), he proposed a nice idea with a good implementation and you're still bitching because you don't even want to watch a SB ONCE?
I dunno if I'm the sick guy or you are.
Why do we mappers even bother to storyboard if noone wants to see our works?
I NEVER lagged and my pc is quite old (P4 3.4Ghz, 1GB ram, NVidia 6600GT 256MB).
Then i checked SB load, just to be sure. It has a average of 3,5/4.0x and barely passes 5.0 in some transitions. I expected way more, seeing the quality of the work.
So, you chose a really bad example, because that SB is perfect: nice, not flashy and well optimized.
And I'm the only one who did such record, iirc.
If i could do it, why can't someone else with other maps?
Honestly, if you can't play with a normal BG on (there are some bad BG, but there's people who deletes everything and that's nonsense, really) you have some problems with playing the game, don't blame the beatmap.
That said: i raged because I can't understand you.
Really, take me back to 2007, when noone complained about anything, and we all played everything without complaining everytime.
Peppy just proposed a really nice way to have a compromise with all the storyboard toggle that were requested in the past (and he wasn't forced to do so), he proposed a nice idea with a good implementation and you're still bitching because you don't even want to watch a SB ONCE?
I dunno if I'm the sick guy or you are.
Why do we mappers even bother to storyboard if noone wants to see our works?
My first try, i ran osu and downloaded that only to test it and:JesusYamato wrote:
http://osu.ppy.sh/s/17154
Ranked a few days ago, a lot of players have to delete the SB to properly play it without lag.
I NEVER lagged and my pc is quite old (P4 3.4Ghz, 1GB ram, NVidia 6600GT 256MB).
Then i checked SB load, just to be sure. It has a average of 3,5/4.0x and barely passes 5.0 in some transitions. I expected way more, seeing the quality of the work.
So, you chose a really bad example, because that SB is perfect: nice, not flashy and well optimized.
I FC'd Don't Stop Me Now with Hidden HardRock AND WITH BOTH STORYBOARD AND SKIN (inb4 "you can't prove it").JesusYamato wrote:
And some HR or DT are impossible with the BG on..
And I'm the only one who did such record, iirc.
If i could do it, why can't someone else with other maps?
Honestly, if you can't play with a normal BG on (there are some bad BG, but there's people who deletes everything and that's nonsense, really) you have some problems with playing the game, don't blame the beatmap.
That said: i raged because I can't understand you.
From what I have read so far I am thinking this as wellCard N'FoRcE wrote:
God guys, what the hell is wrong with you all?
Really, take me back to 2007, when noone complained about anything, and we all played everything without complaining everytime.
Peppy just proposed a really nice way to have a compromise with all the storyboard toggle that were requested in the past (and he wasn't forced to do so), he proposed a nice idea with a good implementation and you're still bitching because you don't even want to watch a SB ONCE?
How about toggling background into default(osu logo) or if skin applied into "playfield" (actually those are used only on ranking screen and few old maps)(only asking).
Seriously, storyboards and new skins makes osu! play much funnier. But if you are running xxxx programs in background or something, you will always have lags...
If you really don't like skins, SB's applied by mapper check the actually pending maps and inform mappers about that... don't complain when map is actually ranked...
Seriously, storyboards and new skins makes osu! play much funnier. But if you are running xxxx programs in background or something, you will always have lags...
If you really don't like skins, SB's applied by mapper check the actually pending maps and inform mappers about that... don't complain when map is actually ranked...
Lunah_old
JesusYamato wrote:
http://osu.ppy.sh/s/17154
Ranked a few days ago, a lot of players have to delete the SB to properly play it without lag.
And some HR or DT are impossible with the BG on..
how can you delete this SB? it is amazing
When I travel or I'm not at home I got my notebook with me, and I get low FPS there with Low-End PC thing on, I just can't play maps with videos or storyboards, meaning if I want to play there in the future I'll have to wait for the whole map to be autoplayed for playing it, don't you think that's just dumb? I mean seriously do you want me to watch the screen like an idiot for let's say 2 minutes for playing a map? I think it doesn't make any sense at all, really.Card N'FoRcE wrote:
That said: i raged because I can't understand you.
Plus yeah I hate doing AR 10 things with BG/SB, same with very fast things, I can't see the followpoints clearly and that's just a problem (depends on map though, some have just dark backgrounds and those work fine).
No reason to force something which people are going to do anyway. I'm thinking of multiplayer, where it's nice to disable a bad SB/skin when you know it's bad because someone else tells you or you know about the problems but haven't played the map before. I'm not sure how you will handle the "first played" thing either. Isn't that a locally stored thing? If so, it's easily skippable without actually playing the map, or you can just make another difficulty with one note, which would be faster than auto double time. Not to mention, you can just run the auto-DT and walk away from the computer.peppy wrote:
ziin wrote:
Storyboards are part of the map, however to force a user to play it once is somewhat ridiculous./?ziin wrote:
Even people who hate storyboards will play it once or twice with the storyboard on.
It just seems like it's a lot of extra work to force someone to watch the storyboard when most of osu will watch the storyboard eventually anyway. If you've already got this all coded (in your head?) then go for it. I just think the more complex you make something, the more bugs you introduce, and the more confusing it is to people.
Glad you're not going to get rid of backgrounds, I like them even though most people complaining would rather just have black ones.
Waryas
That said: i raged because I can't understand you.Some insane DT or AR10 HR are way more easy with black backgrounds cause you can focus on the followpoints, it's all about increased reactivity.
how can you delete this SB? it is amazingI watched it once but when i had to set my record i had to "rename" (not delete) the SB folder.
Well, everyone has his own opinion, I can't deny that.
But not accepting such a nice compromise because you don't even want to see what a mapper may have spent hours for just because you're like "lol i don't care delete" it's only a selfish whim.
As a mapper and storyboarder, i was supporting the "old" osz2 where everyone was forced to keep the SB for various reasons: Everyone will play the same way -> more fair; the map won't get misinterpreted because of missing stuff -> correct judgement of the map quality.
And also because i prefer people to play my maps as a whole: if you deleted BG/skin/SB from some of my maps, please delete the whole map and don't even play them, as they're not being played as i wanted them to be.
I'm not forcing you to download my map and to play it. If you like it, enjoy it. If you don't like it, delete and forget about it.
Even considering what i just said, i stll can accept this compromise because it will benefit the majority of people and still let my SBs get a little more chance to be seen before getting removed "for a better gameplay".
So i don't understand why me, a mapper who MAKES storyboards, can accept the compromise and you, who are not forced to play it, can't accept it.
Stop being selfish, it's impossible to make everyone happy in a 600k users community, yet peppy is still trying to discuss this because he saw the huge amount of requests this issue got.
But not accepting such a nice compromise because you don't even want to see what a mapper may have spent hours for just because you're like "lol i don't care delete" it's only a selfish whim.
As a mapper and storyboarder, i was supporting the "old" osz2 where everyone was forced to keep the SB for various reasons: Everyone will play the same way -> more fair; the map won't get misinterpreted because of missing stuff -> correct judgement of the map quality.
And also because i prefer people to play my maps as a whole: if you deleted BG/skin/SB from some of my maps, please delete the whole map and don't even play them, as they're not being played as i wanted them to be.
I'm not forcing you to download my map and to play it. If you like it, enjoy it. If you don't like it, delete and forget about it.
Even considering what i just said, i stll can accept this compromise because it will benefit the majority of people and still let my SBs get a little more chance to be seen before getting removed "for a better gameplay".
So i don't understand why me, a mapper who MAKES storyboards, can accept the compromise and you, who are not forced to play it, can't accept it.
Stop being selfish, it's impossible to make everyone happy in a 600k users community, yet peppy is still trying to discuss this because he saw the huge amount of requests this issue got.
Waryas
I can't play with low AR because too much notes confuse me and make me fail.
So I play only with Hard Rock mode but it's just impossible to play it with a background, that's why I delete it.
Then when I won't be able to delete background, I won't be able to play osu! anymore.
That's sad. :/
Also even if I have a good computer, a lot of skin and SB make me freeze, even on new ranked maps.
So I play only with Hard Rock mode but it's just impossible to play it with a background, that's why I delete it.
Then when I won't be able to delete background, I won't be able to play osu! anymore.
That's sad. :/
Also even if I have a good computer, a lot of skin and SB make me freeze, even on new ranked maps.
Oh god, guys never play my maps, delete them.
I'm serious, I do my best thinking about how to make every skinned element/BG/SB as playable as possible (maybe i didn't a lot of time ago but i do now) and then i get people who removes everything i spent hours for.
Don't play my maps if you want to remove stuff, ever.
I still don't understand why I'm able to play AR9 and some AR10 maps (AR10 maps with HR) even with the storyboard on.
Either I'm crazy or there's a problem with your computers.
So, I still don't understand why everyone removes everything, give me some good explanation with some evidence.
@JesusYamato: deleting or "renaming", at the end both of them lead to the same result.
I'm serious, I do my best thinking about how to make every skinned element/BG/SB as playable as possible (maybe i didn't a lot of time ago but i do now) and then i get people who removes everything i spent hours for.
Don't play my maps if you want to remove stuff, ever.
I still don't understand why I'm able to play AR9 and some AR10 maps (AR10 maps with HR) even with the storyboard on.
Either I'm crazy or there's a problem with your computers.
So, I still don't understand why everyone removes everything, give me some good explanation with some evidence.
@JesusYamato: deleting or "renaming", at the end both of them lead to the same result.
I'm with Card on this, seriously, if you guys are just going to screw up everything the mappers put on the maps then why would the mappers bother even storyboarding and dedicating time to make something pretty on their maps.
Mappers spend a long time creating these storyboards to give a great sensation when you play their maps, modders work hard optimizing the storyboards of mappers to make them lag the least for players, and you guys still complain even when you only have to watch it once?
And now you want a skin toogle too?
And a BG toggle?
What will it be later? a custom hitsound toggle?
and then what let's not even play?
Seriously guys, learn the appreciate the work other people do to create a better gaming experience for you guys, to see something more than a BG and some circles.
Mappers spend a long time creating these storyboards to give a great sensation when you play their maps, modders work hard optimizing the storyboards of mappers to make them lag the least for players, and you guys still complain even when you only have to watch it once?
And now you want a skin toogle too?
And a BG toggle?
What will it be later? a custom hitsound toggle?
and then what let's not even play?
Seriously guys, learn the appreciate the work other people do to create a better gaming experience for you guys, to see something more than a BG and some circles.
deleting not untill my osu! folder passes 300gb and even then I may buy a dedicated hard disk for osu!Card N'FoRcE wrote:
Oh god, guys never play my maps, delete them.
I'm serious, I do my best thinking about how to make every skinned element/BG/SB as playable as possible (maybe i didn't a lot of time ago but i do now) and then i get people who removes everything i spent hours for.
Don't play my maps if you want to remove stuff, ever.
I still don't understand why I'm able to play AR9 and some AR10 maps (AR10 maps with HR) even with the storyboard on.
Either I'm crazy or there's a problem with your computers.
So, I still don't understand why everyone removes everything, give me some good explanation with some evidence.
@JesusYamato: deleting or "renaming", at the end both of them lead to the same result.
42GB is nothing
Waryas
And we're back to square 1.
People who want to keep the BG, etc will keep it and people who don't like eye candy stuff will remove it. Why does it matter to you if i disable your skin or not? Plenty of other users will still see it
.
I just hope older maps won't get converted to osz2 so i can still play those.
People who want to keep the BG, etc will keep it and people who don't like eye candy stuff will remove it. Why does it matter to you if i disable your skin or not? Plenty of other users will still see it
.I just hope older maps won't get converted to osz2 so i can still play those.
I hope people can accept with a straight face that some users are more easily distracted than others. Whether it's flickering backgrounds or random objects/lyrics flying around in behind hit objects, some of us can't help but be distracted by those. I've had one player tell me about fake flashlighting effects in some maps making that section entirely unplayable to that user. I am completely in favor of allowing anyone to disable any skin or visual effect. Some maps, the only beef I had with it was the mapper used a stupid cursor that made the entire thing difficult to play without deleting skin elements. There's a skin called Hikari (or something like that) which especially during kiai sections, leaves additional approach circles hovering around each hit circle, I hate this skin with a passion (were they TRYING to make the game unplayable?). And don't get me started on skins that make all the hit objects 50-60% transparent. Now that's just being mean.
I have plenty of reason to support the disabling or modification of storyboard and skin elements. To me, the core game is the hit circles, sliders, and spinners, and their placement according to space and time. Everything else is icing on the cake, and when it gets in the way of game play for any individual reason, the player should be able to deal with it.
I have plenty of reason to support the disabling or modification of storyboard and skin elements. To me, the core game is the hit circles, sliders, and spinners, and their placement according to space and time. Everything else is icing on the cake, and when it gets in the way of game play for any individual reason, the player should be able to deal with it.
In as much as I don't like the concept of "disabling someone's hard work", it still makes perfect sense. The sort of people who would utilize the "disable storyboards" feature are not a storyboarder's target audience. In spite of that, forcing them to view a storyboard once through will still provide the opportunity to "discover a hidden gem".
Oh well! Maybe it does matter to me because I (or better: WE mappers) make the maps YOU (players) play?JesusYamato wrote:
Why does it matter to you if i disable your skin or not? Plenty of other users will still see it
How about we stop mapping or getting maps ranked, you guys are never satisfied anyway, always complaining! Might as well avoid the trouble!
*Card N'FoRcE sighs.
Let me end this discussion here or it won't end well (also i have to go to bed)
The more i write here the more I want to change my mind and disagree with peppy's proposal because we can't give you people a hand or else you'll end up taking our whole arm.
Topic Starter
I should have seen this response coming.
This feature request is still open and good; I just don't want to see this go down the same path as any other time this has been discussed. It seems some people think that osu! is just a competitive game with no heart, and that beatmappers should just be placing hitObjects (hey why don't we return back to 2007 when you didn't even need a background!!).
Hopefully my solution will help out the non-vocal majority of people, while apparently failing to satisfy some that have posted their strong opinions in this thread.
Edit: Also for those complaining about "lag", I will say what I've said forever, and that is to report it in the beatmap's thread. No map should "lag". (Make sure to !faq lag and understand what lag is and how to describe it.)
*locks*
Edit: Okay, I'll actually leave this unlocked, but please refrain from continuing the same argument to the point of destruction. Before you post, consider this argument from a mapper's perspective too.
This feature request is still open and good; I just don't want to see this go down the same path as any other time this has been discussed. It seems some people think that osu! is just a competitive game with no heart, and that beatmappers should just be placing hitObjects (hey why don't we return back to 2007 when you didn't even need a background!!).
Hopefully my solution will help out the non-vocal majority of people, while apparently failing to satisfy some that have posted their strong opinions in this thread.
Edit: Also for those complaining about "lag", I will say what I've said forever, and that is to report it in the beatmap's thread. No map should "lag". (Make sure to !faq lag and understand what lag is and how to describe it.)
*locks*
Edit: Okay, I'll actually leave this unlocked, but please refrain from continuing the same argument to the point of destruction. Before you post, consider this argument from a mapper's perspective too.
i see no valid reason for this EXCEPT for maps that require a Epilepsy warning. being able to toggle those will be useful for people who it could effect
Epileptic SB layer? 
Hey, remember this?MetalMario201 wrote:
Epileptic SB layer?
How about adding "E" (epilepsy inducing) for an object that may cause epilepsy?_P,[...],pp: the effect parameter to apply
H - horizontal flip
V - vertical flip
A - additive-blend colour (as opposed to alpha-blend)
(Also how about something like a "R" (reverse-able) for HardRock too?)
I still want to know what I'm gonna do when I play on my notebook and have to wait for the whole song to be autoplayed for being able to disable it's SB.
You're going to cry me a river.
Isn't the idea meant for those cases mainly?MetalMario201 wrote:
You're going to cry me a river.
Oh this.Card N'FoRcE wrote:
Hey, remember this?MetalMario201 wrote:
Epileptic SB layer?How about adding "E" (epilepsy inducing) for an object that may cause epilepsy?_P,[...],pp: the effect parameter to apply
H - horizontal flip
V - vertical flip
A - additive-blend colour (as opposed to alpha-blend)
(Also how about something like a "R" (reverse-able) for HardRock too?)
peppy wrote:
Edit: Okay, I'll actually leave this unlocked, but please refrain from continuing the same argument to the point of destruction. Before you post, consider this argument from a mapper's perspective too.
also is nothing good enough for you people >:CWishy22 wrote:
I still want to know what I'm gonna do when I play on my notebook and have to wait for the whole song to be autoplayed for being able to disable it's SB.
also can someone explain this Epileptic SB layer idea...i'm really stupid when it comes to...well everything :/
have the replay go at 2x and get over the fact that it's 2~4 minutes of your lifeWishy22 wrote:
I still want to know what I'm gonna do when I play on my notebook and have to wait for the whole song to be autoplayed for being able to disable it's SB.
IMO that is a very fair condition and one that I, as a person who generally gets distracted by SB's, am very happy with.
still sucks for the epileptic people, I guess they can just ignore their computer while auto plays through it then disable the SB.
also you'll need to PLAY the map once...not watch auto play it, play it
oh, well uh.
somebody should tell us more about the epileptic thing. a friend of mine wants to play, but she's uber-paranoid because she's epileptic.
somebody should tell us more about the epileptic thing. a friend of mine wants to play, but she's uber-paranoid because she's epileptic.
Waryas
I am against any possibility of disabling SB and skins.
From the perspective of a mapper for obvious reasons.
From the perspective of a player because I want everyone to see the same and have the same chances.
I've always already disliked the "no video" mod for this reason. Why do people have to have crappy computers
From the perspective of a mapper for obvious reasons.
From the perspective of a player because I want everyone to see the same and have the same chances.
I've always already disliked the "no video" mod for this reason. Why do people have to have crappy computers
osz2, can't delete map filesJesusYamato wrote:
Also is the fact that we watched the SB at least once local? What if we delete the .db files?
Actual system is way better since I can choose to watch it or not, giving me the possibility to save time and don't have to suffer the stress from playing with very low FPS for then playing with good FPS (notebook talking). Hope we eventually get an option that allows us to do things like we do now, but with osz2. Plus if this gets implemented (I mean the new format) I hope BATs start seriously looking at skins/SBs and all that stuff mappers usually add just to be deleted since it makes the map unplayable for lots of players.E-Hooker wrote:
have the replay go at 2x and get over the fact that it's 2~4 minutes of your life
IMO that is a very fair condition and one that I, as a person who generally gets distracted by SB's, am very happy with.
still sucks for the epileptic people, I guess they can just ignore their computer while auto plays through it then disable the SB.
Wishy22 wrote:
Actual system is way better since I can choose to watch it or not, giving me the possibility to save time and don't have to suffer the stress from playing with very low FPS for then playing with good FPS (notebook talking).
Ok, peppy will change his mind, put all his work about osz2 in trash and whole community will agree with you just to make you happy.
Hope we eventually get an option that allows us to do things like we do now, but with osz2. Plus if this gets implemented (I mean the new format)
It will.
I hope BATs start seriously looking at skins/SBs and all that stuff mappers usually add just to be deleted since it makes the map unplayable for lots of players. I only agree with this. Feels like BATs dont really care much about skin/sb mods except for max size allowed or missing files :/
cry me a river wishy, I play on a netbook and I don't have problems loading SB's.
on the subject of mappers making skins/SB's, I absolutely love them, although some SB's distract me substantially.
then there are storybords like THIS ONE that make me want to throw bricks at whoever ranked it
anyways...
on the subject of mappers making skins/SB's, I absolutely love them, although some SB's distract me substantially.
then there are storybords like THIS ONE that make me want to throw bricks at whoever ranked it
anyways...
Bittersweet, letting users decide whether to play with SB/BG/Skin or not has nothing to do with what's osz2 supposed to do, afaik it is meant to make the submission system work better or something like that, but a consecuence of using that system is that users no longer have access to modify some stuff on maps they download. Nobody is telling him to dump all his work, you're getting it wrong.
And E-Hooker, I almost never play on my notebook, so I don't care (barely play a 3 or 4 days on it), but some people actually play on notebooks like mine or worse everyday, and it's gonna be a pain for them to have to play the unplayable, which is my point basically.
And E-Hooker, I almost never play on my notebook, so I don't care (barely play a 3 or 4 days on it), but some people actually play on notebooks like mine or worse everyday, and it's gonna be a pain for them to have to play the unplayable, which is my point basically.
All that im getting is that you saying same thing over and over again. It won't change anything about this new system, which in my opinion is a great idea for make both sides happy. If you wanna be so selfish, its up to you, i dont care, im just tired of ready same thing in every of your posts, honestly. If you dont wanna waste 4/5 really important minutes of your life, don't play anymore. Noone is forcing you to.
About ppl who plays with bad conditions: atm I play in a shitty notebook which can barely reaches 200fps. Sb lags me? As hell. If i mind of play lagged once and then free of it? Nope at all.
tl;dr (even if its short): stop to cry.
And sorry about it to the other users ^^'
About ppl who plays with bad conditions: atm I play in a shitty notebook which can barely reaches 200fps. Sb lags me? As hell. If i mind of play lagged once and then free of it? Nope at all.
tl;dr (even if its short): stop to cry.
And sorry about it to the other users ^^'
Topic Starter
Did you read the initial post? Are you against my compromised solution?FireballFlame wrote:
I am against any possibility of disabling SB and skins.
From the perspective of a mapper for obvious reasons.
From the perspective of a player because I want everyone to see the same and have the same chances.
I've always already disliked the "no video" mod for this reason. Why do people have to have crappy computers
I wonder if I should implement a forum ignore feature..Wishy22 wrote:
everything
Also, list the storyboards that do lag you, and your osu! settings. You are quite possibly doing-it-wrong, since SBs should NOT LAG 99.999999999999998% of PCs.
There are 4 layers currently:deadbeat wrote:
also can someone explain this Epileptic SB layer idea...i'm really stupid when it comes to...well everything :/
Foreground - displays on top
Background - displays on bottom, otherwise identical to foreground
Pass - displays if you are currently "passing" the song with good health
Fail - displays if you are currently "failing" the song with bad health
The suggested new layers would be:
Epileptic - displays only if (presumably) a toggle is set in the options that you do NOT have epilepsy and can see flashes >3Hz without having a seizure.
Hard Rock - displays only if the player has the "Hard Rock" mod active, which mirrors the notes' locations, so you can add a storyboard which is contingent on being a certain distance away from one particular note which is not in the direct middle of the play area.
Guys, peppy has gone from a flat out "No, fuck you" to a "OK, you can disable both the skin AND storyboard but with a tiny, minuscule catch which will literally only hinder your playing time by 2-3 minutes."
This is a GOOD thing, if he wanted to he could go back to the "no fuck you" mode.
Please stop arguing because it'll only make things worse. :/
This is a GOOD thing, if he wanted to he could go back to the "no fuck you" mode.
Please stop arguing because it'll only make things worse. :/
awesome. thx ziinziin wrote:
There are 4 layers currently:deadbeat wrote:
also can someone explain this Epileptic SB layer idea...i'm really stupid when it comes to...well everything :/
Foreground - displays on top
Background - displays on bottom, otherwise identical to foreground
Pass - displays if you are currently "passing" the song with good health
Fail - displays if you are currently "failing" the song with bad health
The suggested new layers would be:
Epileptic - displays only if (presumably) a toggle is set in the options that you do NOT have epilepsy and can see flashes >3Hz without having a seizure.
kinda wish he would...so far all this has caused is us to yell at each otherZetta wrote:
Guys, peppy has gone from a flat out "No, fuck you" to a "OK, you can disable both the skin AND storyboard but with a tiny, minuscule catch which will literally only hinder your playing time by 2-3 minutes."
This is a GOOD thing, if he wanted to he could go back to the "no fuck you" mode.
Option to disable storyboard and skins? Awesome
As a mapper who has made both skins and storyboards, I honestly don't give a crap about who deletes the SB / skin. If that's how they want to play it, fine. Personally, I think if the SB / skin is the only good part about the map, there is something wrong. Who am I to tell people what do do? Let them play the way they think it is most enjoyable
As a mapper who has made both skins and storyboards, I honestly don't give a crap about who deletes the SB / skin. If that's how they want to play it, fine. Personally, I think if the SB / skin is the only good part about the map, there is something wrong. Who am I to tell people what do do? Let them play the way they think it is most enjoyable
I did. It's good as a compromise and I guess if storyboards really cause lag for so many people it can't be helped.peppy wrote:
FireballFlame wrote:
Did you read the initial post? Are you against my compromised solution?
But, for me, lag is the only valid reason to do that, that's why I'm not happy with an option to disable skins being included as well.
There has even been a request for a background toggle as well in this thread. People would be using that and the skin toggle, like they are deleting the files atm, just to rid themselves of any "distractions" (= eye-candy) and use their own custom skins to make it easier to get high scores/records. I was hoping for osz2 to put an end to this tbh. Of course, I am free to do the same, but deciding not to do it automatically puts me at a disadvantage compared to the players who do. It means I have to decide between either playing to enjoy the atmosphere of a map (with eye-candy) or trying to get a good record (without, because it makes it easier and that's what the others will do).
That decision is what bothers me, because I'd have most fun being able do both.
Topic Starter
It's not a disadvantage; it's your choice to play in a way which suits you.
Skin toggle in my eyes is more important than storyboard from a playability perspective due to no standards on ranked maps' skins; basically anything goes currently. This does need to change in my eyes.
Skin toggle in my eyes is more important than storyboard from a playability perspective due to no standards on ranked maps' skins; basically anything goes currently. This does need to change in my eyes.
This might sound wierd, but I personally think that background disabling option might be helpful too.
I had to delete them for quite a number of times and for different reasons, like too many white/very bright colors, combo colours blending with the background too much (this especially applies to hidden), or, err, general dislike of a background (after all, there are pictures which would irritate you when you're forced to look at them for 30 minutes or something), maybe a mix of those above.
In all the above cases black screen worked just great.
I believe same reasoning as with storyboard disabling might work here too, except backgrounds are mostly random pictures from internet and I think it wouldn't hurt the mapper as much as if I've had to delete the storyboard he took time and effort making.
I had to delete them for quite a number of times and for different reasons, like too many white/very bright colors, combo colours blending with the background too much (this especially applies to hidden), or, err, general dislike of a background (after all, there are pictures which would irritate you when you're forced to look at them for 30 minutes or something), maybe a mix of those above.
In all the above cases black screen worked just great.
I believe same reasoning as with storyboard disabling might work here too, except backgrounds are mostly random pictures from internet and I think it wouldn't hurt the mapper as much as if I've had to delete the storyboard he took time and effort making.
Topic Starter
If I add a background disable function, it will also disable all hit objects, sounds, and osu! itself.
You sure should, thought this forum already had one.peppy wrote:
I wonder if I should implement a forum ignore feature..
Also, list the storyboards that do lag you, and your osu! settings. You are quite possibly doing-it-wrong, since SBs should NOT LAG 99.999999999999998% of PCs.
Pretty much every storyboard with constant flashes and somewhat good quality, options = everything disables + low end PC (which actually disables again most of the stuff). Sadly my notebook is into that 0.00000000000002%, and I'm damn sure I'm not the player with the worst notebook ever on this game. I'll eventually get a new laptop since I'm pretty much able to, but I'm sure some people can't just go and upgrade their PCs just for osu!.
Topic Starter
What resolution, what map (give at leat one sample?), what renderer, what graphics card/cpu, what kind of lag (low fps, stuttering etc.)?
1280x800, http://osu.ppy.sh/s/20210 or http://osu.ppy.sh/s/23667 for example, about computer specs I got to find out, not sure about them, gonna add them later. Basically I got spikes when the SB goes "heavy", maybe with motion and constant flashes, in rare cases I get constant low FPS but normally I get some freezing every some seconds, which actually makes the game unplayable.
In fact, disabling SBs would be even more serious than disabling BGs because of what you said, a mapper makes an SB, most BGs are pics taken from http://www.somewallpapersite.com or Google.TKiller wrote:
I believe same reasoning as with storyboard disabling might work here too, except backgrounds are mostly random pictures from internet and I think it wouldn't hurt the mapper as much as if I've had to delete the storyboard he took time and effort making.
that's basically what I've saidWishy22 wrote:
In fact, disabling SBs would be even more serious than disabling BGs because of what you said, a mapper makes an SB, most BGs are pics taken from http://www.somewallpapersite.com or Google.
This is unrankable in case you didnt knowTKiller wrote:
I had to delete them for quite a number of times and for different reasons, like too many white/very bright colors, combo colours blending with the background too much (this especially applies to hidden).
Combo colors should NOT be blending with the background on any ranked map
^ this.Zetta wrote:
Guys, peppy has gone from a flat out "No, fuck you" to a "OK, you can disable both the skin AND storyboard but with a tiny, minuscule catch which will literally only hinder your playing time by 2-3 minutes."
Also I will be happy as long as this stuff isn't allowed to slip through:
TKiller wrote:
too many white/very bright colors, combo colours blending with the background too much (this especially applies to hidden)
I actually think the hitcircleoverlay is as important, if not more important than the hitcircle color.
It just so happens that most are white because people use the default. If you use a light background, I think it will be fine to use a light hitcircle color iif you use a dark hitcircleoverlay.
It just so happens that most are white because people use the default. If you use a light background, I think it will be fine to use a light hitcircle color iif you use a dark hitcircleoverlay.
use speccyWishy22 wrote:
about computer specs
and it still happens :)Sakura Hana wrote:
This is unrankable in case you didnt knowTKiller wrote:
I had to delete them for quite a number of times and for different reasons, like too many white/very bright colors, combo colours blending with the background too much (this especially applies to hidden).
Combo colors should NOT be blending with the background on any ranked map
And it's also very personal, colour perception differs from person to person, so what is ok for mapper/approver can be hard to read for a different player.
so i guess i should weigh in even though i'm sure everything i'm about to say has been said before. the two main 'arguments' i see involve storyboarders wanting people to see their work and players that want to have the option to turn them off.
peppy has proposed a solution that forces each storyboard to be viewed once before giving players the option to turn them off.
storyboarders are being selfish for wanting to force people to view storyboards 100% of the time. players are being selfish for wanting to turn them off without giving them a shot.
having played some 500 or so beatmaps, i think there have only been 2 storyboards or so that i've wanted to disable. the majority of storyboards are very minimal, tastefully done and legitimately add some visual interest to the beatmap.
i can't speak for lag, but i can't imagine that 100% of the storyboards lag even the most severely underpowered systems. all games have minimum system requirements. if all storyboards lag your computer, consider your computer to be under those requirements. you should be thankful that you are maintaining the ability to play osu! on your system at the small expenditure of no fail/double timing each beatmap once. you may even discover certain storyboards that don't lag your system at all and that you actually like that you wouldn't have seen before.
if you're a storyboarder that is against this compromise, i can't see why. you're actually gaining one view of your storyboard over the current system. this compromise should just make it so you're spending more time on your storyboards to ensure they don't lag and don't hinder game-play at all. over time, this will make your storyboards better than they are currently, and you may gain more fans that have noticed that your storyboards are the only ones they don't disable because they are made so well.
---
as for me, i'm all about choice. peppy's compromise allows me to retain my privilege of choosing which storyboards i want to see when i'm feeling 'competitive'. he has every right to take that privilege away so i would suggest that everyone not overlook that fact. at the end of the day, this is his product, not ours. if we don't like it, the only thing we can rightfully do is to go make our own osu!, something i'm certain very few of us could actually pull off.
peppy has proposed a solution that forces each storyboard to be viewed once before giving players the option to turn them off.
storyboarders are being selfish for wanting to force people to view storyboards 100% of the time. players are being selfish for wanting to turn them off without giving them a shot.
having played some 500 or so beatmaps, i think there have only been 2 storyboards or so that i've wanted to disable. the majority of storyboards are very minimal, tastefully done and legitimately add some visual interest to the beatmap.
i can't speak for lag, but i can't imagine that 100% of the storyboards lag even the most severely underpowered systems. all games have minimum system requirements. if all storyboards lag your computer, consider your computer to be under those requirements. you should be thankful that you are maintaining the ability to play osu! on your system at the small expenditure of no fail/double timing each beatmap once. you may even discover certain storyboards that don't lag your system at all and that you actually like that you wouldn't have seen before.
if you're a storyboarder that is against this compromise, i can't see why. you're actually gaining one view of your storyboard over the current system. this compromise should just make it so you're spending more time on your storyboards to ensure they don't lag and don't hinder game-play at all. over time, this will make your storyboards better than they are currently, and you may gain more fans that have noticed that your storyboards are the only ones they don't disable because they are made so well.
---
as for me, i'm all about choice. peppy's compromise allows me to retain my privilege of choosing which storyboards i want to see when i'm feeling 'competitive'. he has every right to take that privilege away so i would suggest that everyone not overlook that fact. at the end of the day, this is his product, not ours. if we don't like it, the only thing we can rightfully do is to go make our own osu!, something i'm certain very few of us could actually pull off.
Just noting that I think this is a fair compromise.
I would have supported this, but after reading this thread... No.
By the way, the smaller the osu window size, the less the lag.
(I have an horrible pc and using 800x600,45 fps to me)
(I have an horrible pc and using 800x600,45 fps to me)
Waryas
Is human eye even capable of noticing a difference within 120 constant FPS and 2000? xd
You just need not to have freezes, if you have constant 60 FPS it should be fine... at least I played tons of games with FPS limited to 60 or 120 and it was all good.
You just need not to have freezes, if you have constant 60 FPS it should be fine... at least I played tons of games with FPS limited to 60 or 120 and it was all good.
Waryas
60fps is plain unplayable for me, input lag and everything, 120fps i feel the approach circle sometime is skipping frame, unlimited = everything is smooth.
Is human eye even capable of noticing a difference within 120 constant FPS and 2000Human eye can perceive up to 200 images per second I think but that doesn't really matter as your screen refresh rate limits everything to 59.97-60-120-200hz (depending on your monitor and GPU)
60FPS is absolutely brilliant for most games, but for osu!, it's crap.Wishy22 wrote:
Is human eye even capable of noticing a difference within 120 constant FPS and 2000? xd
You just need not to have freezes, if you have constant 60 FPS it should be fine... at least I played tons of games with FPS limited to 60 or 120 and it was all good.
Lower FPS cause bigger input delay too in case you didnt know, and +/- 10~20 ms on input delay can be detrimental on rythm games
I don't really know how to explain.I'm stuck on vsync and that's my average fps, if I use 120 or unlimited my pointer gets stuck at each spinner (plus, it doesn't get the click input properly)JesusYamato wrote:
How can you play with 45fps, if i have less than 200 fps I can't play correctly at all. (Yes I can feel a difference between 120fps and unlimited, I run at 3000+ constantly)
Topic Starter
60fps is only a problem if you are pre-rendering frames (most graphics cards have this set on by default). Apart from that, going higher than 60 is just going to get you a slightly perceived faster update (but with tearing) from no vsync, and more precise click timing. The average human eye will be happy with 30fps due to what they are used to when watching TV/movies. A trained eye will be happy with 60fps, and going higher has very minimal gains.
If you are feeling a difference between 120 and 2000, you are feeling the input delay reducing from 8.3ms to 0.5ms.
If you are feeling a difference between 120 and 2000, you are feeling the input delay reducing from 8.3ms to 0.5ms.
This. It saddens me that people these days keep complaining about everything and can't seem to be satisfiable.Card N'FoRcE wrote:
Really, take me back to 2007, when noone complained about anything, and we all played everything without complaining everytime.
I'm glad to hear that we'll be able to turn off custom skins and storyboards when osz2 hits osu! because I have serious problems playing without my default skin.
A side note to turning off backgrounds, the ability to adjust the brightness of the background/playfield might be useful.HAY, I got an idea: a BAT-controllable background dimmer. Then backgrounds won't need to be disableable! 
Or adjustable combo colours?MetalMario201 wrote:
HAY, I got an idea: a BAT-controllable background dimmer. Then backgrounds won't need to be disableable!
Waryas
eddieee wrote:
Or adjustable combo colours?MetalMario201 wrote:
HAY, I got an idea: a BAT-controllable background dimmer. Then backgrounds won't need to be disableable!
Or adjustable combo colours?The reason i usually rename BGs are because sometimes the notes are hard to see even though i use a grayish overlay on my hitcircles.
Personally, I dont care if it has SB or not, but please, dont just go and put SB to every map. If they are just 3/10 or even 4/10 I really dont care, I do know that they will be somewhat unplayable for me, but who cares? There are a lot of beatmaps to play! 
I haven't read through the whole thread so I don't know if this has been mentioned or not, but you can turn off any storyboard by deleting or renaming files in a song's folder.
Whether there is an official mod or not doesn't change this, so it's not completely necessary but there is also no reason not to do it (it would just make it more commonly used than the handful of people that rename / delete folders)
Whether there is an official mod or not doesn't change this, so it's not completely necessary but there is also no reason not to do it (it would just make it more commonly used than the handful of people that rename / delete folders)
You won't be able to delete files when osz2 is out, which is the reason people want a noSB mod in the first place
Topic Starter
On that note, let me say that every beatmap you modify now will be a beatmap you will have to re-download in the future.
Seriously? Lol I mass-deleted every hit100/50/300 from my Songs folder, thanks god I've saved every pack.
back on topic, how about a no SB download option as well?
Topic Starter
How about no? Did you not read my first post?
yeah. but don't fully remember most of it. *re-reads*
Good job missing the point of everything said on this threaddeadbeat wrote:
back on topic, how about a no SB download option as well?
I'm so lazy to check whole, so leave this post if there is discussion about this.
Also need option for multiplayer.
We basically don't play same song twice in mp, so need personal option to disable skin and sb ?
nevermind!
Also need option for multiplayer.
We basically don't play same song twice in mp, so need personal option to disable skin and sb ?
nevermind!
Nevermind
Topic Starter
Every time I read a new post in this thread I get this sudden urge to hit delete post and pretend it was an accident.
Did you really expect to make this post and get everyone saying the feature is absolutely perfect and nothing should be modded since it solves everything? You're a smart guy, you knew this was coming. You know why lots of people asked for this, and you know your idea doesn't solve completly the issue, it was pretty obvious that the BG and hard-to-see stuff was going to pop up (not because of new maps but because of old ones which in lots of cases have hit colors that make it hard to see in it's background). Why don't you just close the thread and add this however you want and see how it works? Unless this whole thread has changed your mind in some way...
Topic Starter
I like to see how discussion progresses. Unfortunately most people aren't too good at productively discussing something without resorting to outright rejecting the idea. Or even worse, replying after only reading the first few words of the opening post (which is the reason I made such a remark).
Grinding for an FC also isn't the objective of multiplayer?dvorak wrote:
I'm so lazy to check whole, so leave this post if there is discussion about this.
Also need option for multiplayer.
We basically don't play same song twice in mp, so need personal option to disable skin and sb ?
nevermind!
Just being curious, will these SB/skin disable mods work like novideo mod when you're watching someone play? Like when you have novideo on, the person being watched doesn't, but you still get no video.
Though considering the way this mod is going to disable itself after changing the map, it probably won't. Though being able to disable skin/SB when being really interested in watching someone play the map rather than watching all the disco-lights all over the screen might be neat. Or when your eyes are tired and you're watching someone to relax/etc.
Though considering the way this mod is going to disable itself after changing the map, it probably won't. Though being able to disable skin/SB when being really interested in watching someone play the map rather than watching all the disco-lights all over the screen might be neat. Or when your eyes are tired and you're watching someone to relax/etc.
aevv_old
Not enjoying the game due to inability to play the map properly is the objective of multiplayer?MetalMario201 wrote:
Grinding for an FC also isn't the objective of multiplayer?dvorak wrote:
I'm so lazy to check whole, so leave this post if there is discussion about this.
Also need option for multiplayer.
We basically don't play same song twice in mp, so need personal option to disable skin and sb ?
nevermind!
Don't play unenjoyable maps?
aevv_old
dont make silly skins..?MetalMario201 wrote:
Don't play unenjoyable maps?
Edit: go ahead make them, tho i aint gonna use them because i want a GOOD score on some maps.
Edit2: oh yes, this idea of first playing a map before you can toggle skin, SB would ruin 99% of random multi games for me... srr to say it
For me this is the only case when I would like to disable SBJarby wrote:
The only other thing of note I would like to bring up regarding this is the freedom to automatically disable all storyboards marked with an epilepsy warning. Of course, that could simply end in regular users enabling it, but I still think it's something to consider.
Just saying
Do you happen do check the song folder for skin/SB elements (and delete them if they exist) everytime you download a map in multiplayer matches?eddieee wrote:
Edit2: oh yes, this idea of first playing a map before you can toggle skin, SB would ruin 99% of random multi games for me... srr to say it
Anyway, I like this idea. The toggle will actually save me some time as I won't need to open the song folder and delete stuff, and I don't really delete skins/SBs before actually playing with them on at least once, anyway.
Actually I only dislike custom hitbursts and spinner backgrounds. SBs aren't much of a burden, except for stuff like Jarto and Strangeprogram...
The point is that osz2 will not allow deletion of skin elements, so this toggle is a workaround.SuperMaay wrote:
Do you happen do check the song folder for skin/SB elements (and delete them if they exist) everytime you download a map in multiplayer matches?eddieee wrote:
Edit2: oh yes, this idea of first playing a map before you can toggle skin, SB would ruin 99% of random multi games for me... srr to say it
Anyway, I like this idea. The toggle will actually save me some time as I won't need to open the song folder and delete stuff, and I don't really delete skins/SBs before actually playing with them on at least once, anyway.
Actually I only dislike custom hitbursts and spinner backgrounds. SBs aren't much of a burden, except for stuff like Jarto and Strangeprogram...
I ask the host if there is some nasty skin, it's not like every skin is bad, but sometimes i just can't play with them... it's not that i dont respect the work that has gone into the skin or SB but as a competetive player i just can't use them all the time.SuperMaay wrote:
Do you happen do check the song folder for skin/SB elements (and delete them if they exist) everytime you download a map in multiplayer matches?
i think mappers should also respect that...
I know I said this elsewhere, but god forbid any of you play an arcade rhythm game. Whalt about DDR, Taiko (the two tame ones), as well as DJMAX and Technika, etc to name a few? Half of their challenge is to not get distracted by the visuals. Why should osu! be different?
bad visuals ruin good maps.RemmyX25 wrote:
I know I said this elsewhere, but god forbid any of you play an arcade rhythm game. Whalt about DDR, Taiko (the two tame ones), as well as DJMAX and Technika, etc to name a few? Half of their challenge is to not get distracted by the visuals. Why should osu! be different?
Encouraging mappers to make distracting storyboards is the last thing we need. And I will always see storyboarding as a visual complement at its best, not a distraction.RemmyX25 wrote:
Half of their challenge is to not get distracted by the visuals. Why should osu! be different?