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Bernd Krueger - Sonata No.14 in cis-Moll, Op. 27/2 - 3. Satz

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Bonsai
some irc-modding, much more to come, am very happy to have stumbled upon this map <3
20:12 Bonsai: dude
20:12 Bonsai: how have I not heard of this map yet
20:12 *Bonsai is editing [https://osu.ppy.sh/b/1101611 Ludwig van Beethoven - Moonlight Sonata - 3. Presto Agitato [Striking Fire From The Heart Of Man]]
20:12 Fenza: idk
20:13 Bonsai: my life is rather busy rn but I'll try to help you with this as soon as I can / have motivation
20:14 Fenza: oh shit
20:14 Fenza: dude nice
20:14 Fenza: how did you find the map?
20:14 Fenza: just curious
20:14 Bonsai: question though, who plays this / where did you get the mp3 from / did you edit it
20:14 Bonsai: uh
20:15 Bonsai: someone in #german /np'd it and said "next Dragonforce map" lol
20:15 Fenza: mp3 is from synthestesia
20:15 Fenza: didnt edit it
20:15 Bonsai: gimme source
20:15 Fenza: already went over tags and such with iamkwan
20:15 Fenza: i dont remember the source
20:15 Fenza: was so long ago that i made this
20:16 Bonsai: a
20:16 Bonsai: do you have the log with KwaN or smth
20:16 Fenza: iye
20:16 Fenza: " think it's up to you. my recommendation is since the song wasn't originally from the game, so i'd rather leave it empty."
20:16 Fenza: its played by synthesia though
20:17 Fenza: music program
20:17 Fenza: was just a quick talk over forum pm's
20:17 Fenza: so it's saved
20:18 Bonsai: gimme those PMs, I wanna have all the links n stuff ^^
20:18 Fenza: aight
20:20 Fenza: https://pastebin.com/k4Yf1z4S
20:20 Fenza: just noticed i pasted backwards
20:20 Fenza: so read from down and up
20:20 Fenza: wasn't really much said
20:21 Bonsai: lol yeah
20:21 Fenza: are you a BN?
20:21 Bonsai: yeah
20:21 Bonsai: B-)
20:21 Fenza: oh
20:21 Fenza: cool
20:21 Bonsai: Tier 2 too B^)
20:22 Fenza: i have no idea what that means
20:22 Fenza: but sick
20:22 Fenza: xd
20:22 Bonsai: also I'm one of the few people who are proficient in timing so that's something that will happen
20:22 Bonsai: lol
20:22 Bonsai: uh
20:22 Bonsai: Recently BNs got split into two Tiers, the lower one can only bubble and the higher one can qualify too
20:22 Fenza: timing this was a brutal experience
20:22 Fenza: oh
20:22 Fenza: i spent many hours timing this
20:23 Fenza: i'd say it's correct
20:23 Fenza: mostly
20:23 Bonsai: yeah I could imagine, I'm not new to timing :^)
20:23 Bonsai: HAH don't worries, I've already spotted a few spots where it's too off ^^
20:23 Bonsai: but no worries
20:23 Bonsai: we'll get there
20:24 Fenza: i timed this over a period of a few months
20:24 Fenza: so there are bound to be things that are off
20:24 Fenza: already discovered a bunch of places that were off from mods
20:24 Fenza: and those are fixed now
20:25 Fenza: i have never experienced a BN taking the initiative before
20:25 Bonsai: ye it's nice to see that you're definitely very capable of hearing well bc most of it is very much on point, just a few more spots ^^
20:25 Fenza: this is really weird
20:25 Bonsai: HEH
20:25 Bonsai: #notallBNs
20:25 Fenza: tried finding BN's
20:25 Fenza: "im on vacation
20:26 Fenza: "im on a break"
20:26 Bonsai: I'm one of the very few ones that don't mod on request but pick maps themselves
20:26 Fenza: "exams, wont mod for 3 months"
20:26 Bonsai: ¯\_(:D)_/¯
20:26 Fenza: "i only mod my friends maps"
20:26 Fenza: :v)
20:26 Fenza: thats cool
20:26 Bonsai: :v)
20:26 Bonsai: just in case you wanna see some timing that's only 30 seconds long but took three hours anyways lol
20:26 *Bonsai is listening to [https://osu.ppy.sh/b/1209186 bill wurtz - the high class stuff]
20:27 Fenza: i spent 30 minutes timing a 3 second map
20:27 Bonsai: woh
20:27 Fenza: oh this is interesting
20:27 Fenza: sounds a bit like doomsday to me
20:27 Bonsai: LOL
20:28 Bonsai: I recently have been informed that it's actually Paul McCartney
20:28 Bonsai: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NUNtaFuq6RA
20:28 Fenza: i dont actually have the thing i timed
20:28 Fenza: on this laptop
20:29 Fenza: but i can show u what i timed
20:29 Bonsai: :(
20:29 Bonsai: yes
20:29 Fenza: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fgk4Cd7h6ak
20:29 Fenza: i timed this
20:29 Fenza: and mapped it
20:29 Bonsai: oh
20:29 Bonsai: xd
20:29 Fenza: did you expect an actual song
20:29 Fenza: that was 3 sec long
20:30 Bonsai: well no but something that is more than just one buzz-sound lol
20:30 Fenza: i timed to the guys voice
20:30 Fenza: xd
20:31 Bonsai: but that's only like five 'beats'
20:31 Fenza: it had "ssss" sounds n stuff
20:31 Fenza: was weird
20:31 Bonsai: ^^
20:31 Fenza: btw
20:31 Fenza: what parts were off
20:31 *Fenza is editing [https://osu.ppy.sh/b/1101611 Ludwig van Beethoven - Moonlight Sonata - 3. Presto Agitato [Striking Fire From The Heart Of Man]]
20:31 Bonsai: uh
20:32 Bonsai: mind if I just go through the map and point out everything that comes to my mind, like, irc-mod basically? ^^
20:33 Fenza: no
20:33 Fenza: that would be nice
20:34 Bonsai: ok so first thing that seems a bit wonky is your stream-structure, bc you're mostly starting with those 00:05:566 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4) - which visually emphasize every fourth note extremely but then you switch to basically not emphasizing anything at all with those like 00:07:011 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1) -
20:35 Bonsai: and like 00:11:349 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4) - are not doing anything at all while 00:13:156 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1) - are emphasized again, and it just seems very random bc if for example the big white tick at 00:12:433 (1) - would already be emphasized too it would make sense musically
20:35 Fenza: i get what you mean
20:36 Fenza: i remapped most of the streams in the start after a mod
20:36 Fenza: it used to be three 1/4 into 1/4 slider
20:36 Fenza: to emphasize the three higher notes
20:37 Fenza: but after palytests and talking nobody could tell the difference that well
20:37 Fenza: and said it would fit better as a stream
20:37 Bonsai: well yeah object shoice is pretty irrelevant in that way, but what I mean is the vizual emphasizing that differs strongly even tho it's still the exact same musical pattern
20:38 Bonsai: it all being circles is completely fine
20:38 Fenza: so 00:05:566 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4) -
20:38 Fenza: should be more like 00:07:011 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1) -
20:38 Fenza: 00:08:457 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1) -
20:38 Fenza: and this also
20:39 Bonsai: for example one that is nice structure-wise is 00:30:139 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1) - bc it starts by only highlighting the upbeats and then adds more and more highlighting to the downbeats too
20:39 Bonsai: basically yeah, but
20:39 Bonsai: I'm not saying it should be 100% identical bc that would make it very boring etc, I'm saying the structure kinda needs some more "logic"
20:40 Bonsai: bc rn it seems like all that is to it is "here I made it like this and then I stopped"
20:40 Fenza: 04:18:741 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1) -
20:41 Fenza: i did the same thing here
20:41 Fenza: is that also bad?
20:42 Bonsai: well, yeah, kinda
20:42 Bonsai: I mean keep in mind that everything I say is subjective, not objectively bad
20:42 Bonsai: but like my point is
20:42 Bonsai: 04:18:741 (1,1,1,2,1) - really stick out
20:42 Bonsai: 04:20:548 (1) - not at all
20:42 Bonsai: and aesthetically that stream completely changes itself
20:42 Fenza: 00:05:566 (1,1,1,1) -
20:43 Fenza: i think these stick out
20:43 Bonsai: yeah ofc
20:43 Bonsai: it's exactly the same thing so it doesn't matter which one we mention
20:43 Bonsai: but why do you only make the first ones stick out and then stop
20:45 Fenza: i was trying to differentiate between the lower pitched sounds on these
20:45 Fenza: 00:05:566 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1) -
20:45 Fenza: 00:07:011 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1) -
20:45 Fenza: and to change the stream concept when it got higher pitched
20:45 Fenza: if that makes sense
20:46 Bonsai: well yeah but the thing is that your stream concept changes 100% at one spot, while the music is smoothly getting higher, so it doesn't really correlate
20:46 Bonsai: it's not like from 00:07:011 (1) - on it's suddenly much higher
20:46 Bonsai: it's evenly getting higher
20:46 Fenza: yeah true
20:46 Bonsai: that's why I praised that other one, uh
20:47 Bonsai: 00:30:139 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1) -
20:47 Bonsai: that transitions very smoothly
20:47 Bonsai: from being very smooth to being very edgy
20:47 Bonsai: if that makes sense
20:47 Fenza: i get what i did wrong
20:47 Fenza: i could fix that in like 15 minutes
20:47 Fenza: throughout the map
20:48 Bonsai: well, no need to rush it ^^
20:49 Bonsai: I'll just move on to some other points ok=
20:49 Bonsai: ?
20:49 Bonsai: oh actually I have a small suggestion about those streams still
20:49 Fenza: alright
20:50 Bonsai: IF you wanna empohasize those final notes like 00:08:095 (1) - etc more, you could make it like at 00:35:741 (3,1) -
20:50 Bonsai: finishing the stream with a slider before the final note
20:50 Bonsai: bc that way, the final note needs special movement
20:50 Bonsai: and stands out
20:50 Bonsai: rn it's just the end of the streams and that's it
20:50 Fenza: i don't really like that
20:50 Bonsai: but that's completely taste, so if you don't like it feel free to ignore the suggestion
20:50 Bonsai: ok :D
20:50 Fenza: i think it's fine for lower bpms
20:51 Fenza: or when you go from 1/2 into 1/1
20:51 Fenza: but having a 1/4 slider there i feel like just makes the player think there's a triple there when there isnt
20:51 Bonsai: hö
20:51 Fenza: if that makes sense
20:51 Bonsai: what sort of triple
20:52 Fenza: it just feels overmapped
20:52 Fenza: when it's a 1/4 slider
20:53 Bonsai: hm ok ^^
20:53 Fenza: did you find those timing errors?
20:55 Bonsai: ok, moving on: 00:24:597 (1) - being on the top there flows really weird bc in the whole previous pattern you have a constant up-up-down-down-up-up-.. movement but suddnely it's up-down-up which makes it feel pretty ngh in my opinion, so I'd uggest swapping it vertically so it ends like [http://puu.sh/vpz3B/28facc7bca.jpg this]
20:55 Bonsai: uh didn't pay attention to that yet
20:56 Bonsai: the thing is, if I check timing accurately then that will take me a lot of time that I don't have rn, and if I only point out a few I'll have to recheck the whole map again and again ^^
20:57 Fenza: i could do that sure
20:59 Bonsai: ok about 00:25:097 (1) - and many other sliders later on: the slidertick is kinda disturbing the pause there without landing on any note of the song, so you could just add a silent slidertick.wav and get rid of that
20:59 Bonsai: or do you want to keep it on purpose
21:00 Fenza: i think i'll just set it at 5%
21:01 Fenza: even if very minimal
21:01 Bonsai: ok but then make sure to raise the volume back again immediately afterwards bc setting evberything to 5% makes the sliderslide go silent too which is not allowed and also would sound weird ^^
21:03 Fenza: i just have the slidertail silenced
21:03 Fenza: if that's fine
21:03 Fenza: i dont want the sliderslide silenced
21:04 Bonsai: you mean tick? ^^
21:04 Bonsai: insteaf of tail
21:04 Bonsai: I mean silencing tail makes much sense too actually
21:05 Bonsai: but I was talking about the tick lol
21:05 Fenza: i dont feel like anyone cares about the tick
21:06 *Bonsai cares :,(
21:06 Bonsai: I mean the tick is basically as loud as the tail
21:06 Bonsai: so why silence tail but not tick
21:06 Bonsai: xd
21:06 Bonsai: both don't land on any sound
21:08 Fenza: ok
21:08 Fenza: did it
21:08 Bonsai: okidoki
21:08 Bonsai: moving on, at 00:29:509 (2) - you made this note / combo stand out bc of the additional hitsound, which totally fits since it stands out in the song too, but it's kinda weird that it's only emphasized in hitsounding but not in the map itself -> this would imo be a place where making one group of 4 stand out from the rest of the rest would fit very much, for example by using a significantly lower spacing or making a very harsh edge or whatever
21:10 Fenza: would increasing the spacing be ok?
21:10 Fenza: cause want high pitched sounds to be more spaced than low pitched ones
21:10 Bonsai: anything that makes it stand out works ^^
21:11 Fenza: https://osu.ppy.sh/ss/7869531
21:11 Fenza: did this
21:11 Fenza: that ok?
21:11 Bonsai: well I mean that's probably not very noticable but ok lol
21:12 Fenza: xd
21:12 Fenza: its much more spaced
21:12 Bonsai: yeah yeah whatever, it'll do ^^
21:12 Fenza: i want to keep the fluid motion
21:14 Bonsai: 00:35:108 (1) - basically the same issue but with NCing instead of hitsounding, this makes absolutely no difference in gameplay and when you're not looking at it in the editor you probably won't udnerstand why it's NCd either, so I'd recommend removing that NC bc making one single notes stand out is probably very hard / would involve sliders which wouldn't fit the map here
21:14 Bonsai: yeah ok
21:14 Fenza: alright
21:14 Fenza: removed it
21:15 Fenza: 01:11:276 (1) -
21:15 Bonsai: here's one timing-related thing lol:
21:15 Fenza: this is an accidental finish
21:15 Fenza: o
21:15 Fenza: all of them are
21:15 Fenza: hm
21:15 Bonsai: lol
21:15 Fenza: what about timing?
21:16 Bonsai: 00:37:924 (1) - this being timed as 1/1 is musically wrong, should be 3/2 beats long like 00:39:472 (1) - ^^
21:16 Bonsai: about the finishes n stuff, don't rush anything, like, I'm not gonna bubble this immediately when we're done here or whatever, I just wanna get the more major stuff out of the way first
21:17 Fenza: yeah true
21:18 Bonsai: I mean I feel like it would make most sense for me to finish monster-modding this thing as if I would bubble it but then wait until other BNs checked it too since not everybody is capable of qualifying so me bubbling would be a waste of that ^^
21:18 Bonsai: and as I said, whatever I say isn't objectively right/wrong either so continuin to get more mods n opinions is a thing I won't stop you from heh
21:19 Fenza: i agree with what you said so far
21:19 Fenza: atleast most of it
21:19 Fenza: also i don't know any BN's
21:19 Fenza: and most just ignore me
21:19 Fenza: or"on vacation" meme
21:19 Bonsai: welp
21:19 Bonsai: you'll have to get more than just me anyways
21:20 Fenza: i need 2 right
21:20 Bonsai: approval sets need 3 BNs
21:20 Fenza: for a qualify i mean
21:20 Fenza: 3?
21:20 Fenza: jeuss
21:20 Bonsai: bubble/bubble/qualify
21:20 Bonsai: I mean I can help getting others to look at it too probably, but what I mean is that for a map of this difficulty/lenght, only having very few people look at it is not that sufficient
21:22 Fenza: it would mean a lot
21:22 Fenza: i just don't have the connections
21:22 Fenza: i know other mappers through black vultures which is a metal osu group
21:22 Fenza: and thats about it
21:23 Bonsai: ok moving on: 00:42:351 - the patterning from here on seems very weird, as in, I don't see how that makes sense with the music because 00:43:796 (5,1) - are the same note in the same harmony etc etc, so I don't see why you seperated those, while I would definitely seperate 00:43:616 (4) - from that patterning because that's the downbeat where the harmony change happens so that would make sense musically
21:24 Bonsai: basically this whole part is also timed wrong because the timing signature is pernanently 1/2 off
21:24 Bonsai: since 00:43:616 (4) - etc are the downbeats, not some offbeat ^^
21:24 Bonsai: never heard of black vultures before lol, but yeah sure, I think I'll dedicate myself very much to this map so I'll also make sure to get it to Qualified when the time has come :P
21:25 Fenza: its a small group
21:25 Fenza: :p
21:28 Fenza: actually not sure how i should map that
21:28 Fenza: thinking of separating all of them
21:28 Bonsai: mmmh lemme try coming up with something
21:28 Fenza: alright
21:28 Bonsai: oh you mean
21:29 Bonsai: basically what I'd do is only stack 00:42:351 (1,2,1) - 00:43:796 (5,1,1) - 00:45:283 (5,1,1) -
21:29 Bonsai: actually adding (3) at 00:43:796 (5,1,1,3) - 00:45:283 (5,1,1,3) - etc
21:29 Bonsai: basically going purely by pitch&harmony
21:32 Fenza: thats cool
21:34 Fenza: i did that
21:34 Bonsai: when it comes to following pitch and all of that stuff closely in patterning, Louis Cyphre did that quite well in this map, so in case you need inspiration or just curious in general make sure to check it out :P
21:34 *Bonsai is listening to [https://osu.ppy.sh/b/837604 Franz Liszt - La Campanella (8 Bit Remix)]
21:34 Bonsai: alright
21:35 Bonsai: ok one more point that I wrote in the meantime, gotta go afk for a bit rn
21:35 Bonsai: ok next point anyways: 00:48:040 (1,2) - versus 00:49:769 (6,1,2,3,4,5,6) - is extreeemely different, the second one being much more intense than the first one, which doesn't make much sense with the music - I feel like you made the first one like that bc you wanted to emphasiez 00:48:754 - so here's a suggestion that would make this more balanced whiel still emphasizing it
21:35 Fenza: i know that map
21:35 Fenza: wish i was good enough to play
21:35 Fenza: what suggestion
21:37 Bonsai: oh lol didn't finish it
21:37 Bonsai: uh
21:38 Fenza: https://osu.ppy.sh/ss/7869734
21:38 Fenza: i did this to emphasize 2
21:38 Fenza: is that fine?
21:38 Bonsai: nunu the issue I have is that the second spot got like double as many notes as the first one
21:38 Bonsai: it's mapping background-notes that are there at the first one too
21:39 Bonsai: hence it feels weird that even though nothing really changes in the music, the map completely doubles its intensity
21:39 Fenza: oh
21:39 Fenza: 00:49:829 (1,2,3,4,5,6) -
21:39 Fenza: i should do this
21:39 Fenza: 00:48:040 (1,2) -
21:39 Fenza: here?
21:40 Bonsai: basically yeah, but if you do exactly that then that one piano-note won't be emphasized anymore
21:40 Bonsai: hence:
21:40 Fenza: i think thats good
21:40 Fenza: yeah
21:40 Bonsai: suggesting to kinda make it change flow/direction/whatever there by doing it some way similar to [http://puu.sh/vpBOt/bfeb505834.jpg this]
21:41 Bonsai: and n o w I gotta go afk for a long time bc I'm gonna eat dinner with family n stuff
21:41 Bonsai: so I guess I'll just end this irc-mod right here
21:41 Bonsai: and just poke you again whenever I feel like it :P
21:41 Fenza: alright
21:42 Fenza: ill try applying what u said
21:54 Fenza: thanks for mod
21:55 Bonsai: :3
21:55 Bonsai: actually I'll edit the log into my forum-post rn and grab kudosu for that already hehehe
21:56 Fenza: haha
21:56 Bonsai: done 8)
22:01 Fenza: giving u in a sec
22:01 Fenza: just gotta apply and update first
22:01 Fenza: :p
22:01 Bonsai: doesn't matter ^^
22:04 Fenza: fixing the split up streams is so tedious
22:04 Fenza: xd
22:04 Bonsai: :c
22:04 Bonsai: uh but idk if you completely understood yet so lemme point out another example of what I mean
22:05 Fenza: i know what you meant
22:05 Fenza: its just that i did it alot
22:05 Bonsai: 00:55:286 (1) - isn't emphasized at all, even tho it is as strong as a sound (and hitsounded) like 00:56:009 (1) - which is appropriately emphasized, bu then there's 00:56:371 (1) - which is emphasized for no reason and then 00:56:732 (1) - which is not emphasized even tho it deserves it
22:06 Bonsai: ok lol, just making sure you completely understood it before you remap everything and then I go "still sucks, remap again" lol
22:06 Bonsai: ¯\_(:D)_/¯
22:06 Fenza: yes
22:06 Fenza: so what im doing
22:07 Fenza: is im removing the unescessary emphasizing
22:07 Fenza: by not using split up streams and "regular" streams in the same stream
22:08 Bonsai: yeah
22:09 Bonsai: but then again there's no need to not emphasize anything at all since that would get boring, but just emphasize in a structured way that still makes some sense with the music in some way ^^
22:10 Fenza: im working on it
22:17 Fenza: btw
22:17 Fenza: kinda curious
22:17 Fenza: what do you think of this pattern
22:17 Fenza: 06:27:481 (1) -
22:18 Bonsai: you mean 06:27:481 (1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1) - ? love it :D
22:18 Bonsai: made me listen to 06:26:566 (1,2,1) - tho which is notably off timing-wise lol
22:19 Bonsai: (also wouldn't seperate that into three sliders and insteaf just use one but w/e)
22:19 Bonsai: (also would silence the slider-slide bc it's kinda irritating to hear that sound so loud here)
22:20 Fenza: actually yeah
22:20 Fenza: its not mistimed
22:20 Fenza: i think
22:20 Fenza: it sounds good to me
22:20 Bonsai: 06:26:566 (1,2) - are generally like 20ms too late
22:21 Fenza: ill time that later
22:21 Fenza: gotta go
22:21 Bonsai: actually the first few notes in that pattern arte all late too
22:21 Bonsai: ay
22:21 Bonsai: \o
22:21 Fenza: on a shitty laptop rn
22:21 Fenza: thanks again
22:21 Fenza: cya :D
22:22 Bonsai: you're welcome, thank you for making such a nice map :D
22:22 Bonsai: (also kds pls aaaaaaa)
22:22 Fenza: thanks
22:22 Fenza: andyeee
22:23 Bonsai: (っ˘ڡ˘ς)
Mir
Some suggestions. (haha i lied i ended up modding the whole damn thing cuz I love this map)

curse you bonsai for making me find this

[ General]
  1. You have two unsnapped slider ends 00:37:413 (2) - 04:38:328 (2) - easiest way to fix this is just remove a reverse. Sound is so fast no player would notice. :P
  2. 00:53:841 - Two green points with different volume settings exist here. One should be removed.

[ Striking Fire From The Heart of Man]
  1. 00:55:286 (1) - This doesn't seem to get very much emphasis aside from an NC so maybe have the direction change here instead of at 00:55:376 (2,3) - ?
  2. 02:06:337 (1,2) - Spacing seems extremely low for such an intense set of sounds. Perhaps try 3x? // 02:09:228 (1,2) - 01:50:441 (1,2) -
  3. 02:11:668 (1,1) - Uhh, is this intentional? xD If so I don't see a need for it personally, at least for 02:11:668 (1).
  4. 02:26:393 (1) - Finish intentional? Doesn't seem to happen at 02:29:307 (1). Perhaps change to a whistle instead. Finishes don't seem to fit the song very much.
  5. 02:58:050 (1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2) - I think these are the highest intensity jumps in the map but at 01:18:558 they don't reach nearly this level of spacing. Maybe nerf these a bit?
  6. 02:59:513 (1) - This is a pretty awkward angle to come into, maybe ctrl+g this? Especially considering the next note is under the reverse. If the 2 were above it it would be okay imo.
  7. 03:36:915 (4,5) - These stood out to me as kind of unnecessary. In the song there is a background piano that does have constant 1/4 but only blending part of it into the layer you're mapping to feels kind of weird. I think you can remove this or if you really want to keep notes here add a kickslider instead? // 03:37:472 (2,3) -
  8. 04:37:268 (1,1) - This increase of SV feels very sudden and might be a bit surprising to players. Maybe try to lower the SV of 04:38:859 (1) - a bit more?
  9. 05:04:740 (1,2,1) - If this DS is intentional it looks kind of out of place, could you possibly make it the same ds as the rest of the stream?
  10. 05:17:940 (1,2) - I understand the progression but 1 is way weaker than 2, and making them stacked gives them both the same emphasis. I think what might work is if you instead stacked 05:17:760 (7,1) - slightly off like so: http://i.imgur.com/HcQCE4z.png or by just unstacking them and using regular spacing emphasis because what you have now kind of threw me off. The stack anyways forces a stop in movement which is very weird when it only happens on the first set of two and not on the rest, you know?
  11. 05:32:263 (1,2) - This also caught my ear as the 2 isn't very audible in the song, in fact I'd dare to say it doesn't exist and is just a continuation of the background piano. In which case I'd recommend removing it and extending the 1 instead to cover that note.
  12. 06:13:611 (4,1) - Spacing increase felt a little too underwhelming when the song picks up much faster. Perhaps space 06:13:521 (3,4,1,2,3,4) - slightly more? Could be said for all the streams here, they felt a little bit weak compared to what the song is doing. You're definitely not afraid of going bonkers like 06:23:095 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4) - so a little buff wouldn't hurt, right? :P
  13. 06:32:714 (1,1,1) - How about, to go with the decrease in pitch, you do something like this: http://i.imgur.com/ZAuFVCK.jpg might be a cool effect considering the downwards spiral has to do with pitch as well (and is pretty damn cool).
  14. 06:47:882 (3) - This slider whistle is probably a mistake.
  15. 06:54:770 (1,1) - Might do nicely with a lot more spacing because for me the song is calling for a lot of emphasis on these notes, but the player doesn't really need to move much to hit them.

Almost there! Keep going! Good luck!
Shurelia
Star~

reply to Mir's mod and call me if you need mod. I'll try to help
Aurele
this map is awesome.
JierYagtama
Boi 2 stars for you looking forward seeing this ranked or loved xd
Okoayu
<@92858431257456640> what do i need to do to get this timing checked

this is pretty neat, reply to mir
Topic Starter
Fenza

Mir wrote:

Some suggestions. (haha i lied i ended up modding the whole damn thing cuz I love this map)

curse you bonsai for making me find this

[ General]
  1. You have two unsnapped slider ends 00:37:413 (2) - 04:38:328 (2) - easiest way to fix this is just remove a reverse. Sound is so fast no player would notice. :P yeah, will do
  2. 00:53:841 - Two green points with different volume settings exist here. One should be removed.
yep

[ Striking Fire From The Heart of Man]
  1. 00:55:286 (1) - This doesn't seem to get very much emphasis aside from an NC so maybe have the direction change here instead of at 00:55:376 (2,3) - ? done
  2. 02:06:337 (1,2) - Spacing seems extremely low for such an intense set of sounds. Perhaps try 3x? // 02:09:228 (1,2) - 01:50:441 (1,2) -
  3. 02:11:668 (1,1) - Uhh, is this intentional? xD If so I don't see a need for it personally, at least for 02:11:668 (1). i think it looks fine but i can see it not fitting with the rest of the map
  4. 02:26:393 (1) - Finish intentional? Doesn't seem to happen at 02:29:307 (1). Perhaps change to a whistle instead. Finishes don't seem to fit the song very much. it's not intentional :)
  5. 02:58:050 (1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2) - I think these are the highest intensity jumps in the map but at 01:18:558 they don't reach nearly this level of spacing. Maybe nerf these a bit? slightly nerfed (they were actually the easiest jumps to hit because vertical 1-2-1-2 lol
  6. 02:59:513 (1) - This is a pretty awkward angle to come into, maybe ctrl+g this? Especially considering the next note is under the reverse. If the 2 were above it it would be okay imo. i like the angle
  7. 03:36:915 (4,5) - These stood out to me as kind of unnecessary. In the song there is a background piano that does have constant 1/4 but only blending part of it into the layer you're mapping to feels kind of weird. I think you can remove this or if you really want to keep notes here add a kickslider instead? // 03:37:472 (2,3) - i really don''t want to ignore that 1/4 but i can use a kickslider instead
  8. 04:37:268 (1,1) - This increase of SV feels very sudden and might be a bit surprising to players. Maybe try to lower the SV of 04:38:859 (1) - a bit more?i can see where you're coming from
  9. 05:04:740 (1,2,1) - If this DS is intentional it looks kind of out of place, could you possibly make it the same ds as the rest of the stream? yeah i like that better too
  10. 05:17:940 (1,2) - I understand the progression but 1 is way weaker than 2, and making them stacked gives them both the same emphasis. I think what might work is if you instead stacked 05:17:760 (7,1) - slightly off like so: http://i.imgur.com/HcQCE4z.png or by just unstacking them and using regular spacing emphasis because what you have now kind of threw me off. The stack anyways forces a stop in movement which is very weird when it only happens on the first set of two and not on the rest, you know? i totally misheard this and mistook the 1 for being strong, i will use regular spacing emphasis
  11. 05:32:263 (1,2) - This also caught my ear as the 2 isn't very audible in the song, in fact I'd dare to say it doesn't exist and is just a continuation of the background piano. In which case I'd recommend removing it and extending the 1 instead to cover that note. alright
  12. 06:13:611 (4,1) - Spacing increase felt a little too underwhelming when the song picks up much faster. Perhaps space 06:13:521 (3,4,1,2,3,4) - slightly im all for buffing things <3, i also buffed 06:16:593 (1) - more? Could be said for all the streams here, they felt a little bit weak compared to what the song is doing. You're definitely not afraid of going bonkers like 06:23:095 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4) - so a little buff wouldn't hurt, right? :P
  13. 06:32:714 (1,1,1) - How about, to go with the decrease in pitch, you do something like this: http://i.imgur.com/ZAuFVCK.jpg might be a cool effect considering the downwards spiral has to do with pitch as well (and is pretty damn cool). i like that a lot
  14. 06:47:882 (3) - This slider whistle is probably a mistake. yes
  15. 06:54:770 (1,1) - Might do nicely with a lot more spacing because for me the song is calling for a lot of emphasis on these notes, but the player doesn't really need to move much to hit them.
alright

Almost there! Keep going! Good luck! thanks <3
Bonsai
ok here's the timing-fix! :3

..

jk lol, that's how converting the MIDI into osu! ends up like and it's completely bonkers and doesn't help fixing the timing a single bit because it's so fucked up

not relevant or anything, just wanted to share it bc it's so fun
(shoutout to Dudehacker for converting that)
Topic Starter
Fenza

Bonsai wrote:

ok here's the timing-fix! :3

..

jk lol, that's how converting the MIDI into osu! ends up like and it's completely bonkers and doesn't help fixing the timing a single bit because it's so fucked up

not relevant or anything, just wanted to share it bc it's so fun
(shoutout to Dudehacker for converting that)
what the ****
Bonsai
not finished with timing yet but posting anyways so Fenza has something to do while I procrastinate for another month : )

Metadata
The YouTube-video that you ripped the mp3 from got that MIDI/mp3 from this site, hence:
  1. Artist should be the creator of the MIDI, which is "Bernd Krueger"
  2. The most 'beautiful' version that I found for the Title is the one you get from opening the original MIDI-file from the website which is "Sonata No.14 in cis-Moll, Op. 27/2 - 3. Satz" - This is pretty much the most common way to cite classical pieces in german (the creator is german), all the other versions you get by looking at the website ("Sonata No. 14 C# minor (Moonlight) , Opus 27/2 (1801) 3. Movement") / downloading the mp3 ("Beethoven: Moonlight 3rd movement") / whatever are all somewhat ugly so I'd recommend to just use this one.
Timing
I originally started a list of stuff that was off until I realized that fixing an existing timing is just as much work as redoing it by scratch, here's an .osu with just the red lines for the first 50%, you can simply open that diff in the editor, copy the red lines in the Timing Setup Panel and paste them into your diff (after deleting all the red lines to that point there), and then adjust everything.
the list i guess lol
  1. 00:17:180 - Timing wasn't smooth here, and the BPM is actually still that low until the next white tick where it speeds up again
  2. 00:25:097 - There should be three beats between here and the next section instead of just two as this is all 4/4-measure, 00:25:097 being the measure's second beat
  3. 00:30:138 - BPM changes not on the downbeat which makes the Time Signature be 1/1 off for the rest of this section, managed to time it all with a single section instead
  4. 00:35:922 - smoothened this out too
  5. 00:37:524 - Placing a reverse-slider that passes different BPMs doesn't work as some notes are bound to be unsnapped (the slider only has one lenght, but the BPM changes during the slider), also, the downbeat should be at the second of those notes. I recommend starting the slider with three reverses on the downbeat and placing a circle prior to it, stacked. (like this and this)
  6. 00:38:693 - is timed way too late, also the previous section didn't connect to it at all -> smoothened it out
  7. 00:41:527 - timed way too early
  8. As I already said in irc, this is all very off signature-wise and none of those following red lines fix it correctly until 00:48:040 - lol, also most of it was very late, managed to do it with a single section
  9. 00:49:468 - very early until like 00:51:663 -, basically that first note is the only one that is so early while everything after it is much later again so that one being early can be ignored in order to make everything else more accurate
  10. 00:56:732 - section gets more and more notably late here until the next section
  11. 01:00:052 - unnecessary section lol, and the next section is again making the Time Signature be off, and it's also way too late at the start of the section
    the major mistake you made here is that you missed that 01:00:373 - is actually the downbeat, and the first circle is actually the second 1/32 (or 1/4 in osu!terms) of that measure (screen from the sheets in case you're interested)
    funnily enough you did that correctly at 00:54:563 - but incorrectly here, probably occurs later on again too ^^
  12. 01:08:314 - way too early
  13. some major stuff later on: 03:52:128 - is half of what the BPM should be until 03:58:368 - where it's 2/3'd which I found funny lol

Some Other Stuff
Currently, your mp3 has over five seconds of complete silence at the start which is pretty pointless, it just makes a skip-button appear that you gotta press every time you play the map so you don't have to wait five seconds until it starts lol - I strongly advise to cut that at some point, tho I'll finish my timing with the current one just to be sure. In case you wanna have it easy, the mp3 from the website would have offset 0, but it also sounds somewhat lackluster compared to the Snythesia-mp3 so I doubt you'd wanna use that one :P
Bonsai

I wrote:

while I procrastinate for another month
IT ONLY TOOK ME 29 DAYS AHAHAHA

hmu concerning cutting the intro-silence / finding the right offset afterwards

oh also I'ma steal Oko's star bc I was here first
ätschbätsch
Topic Starter
Fenza

Bonsai wrote:

I wrote:

while I procrastinate for another month
IT ONLY TOOK ME 29 DAYS AHAHAHA

hmu concerning cutting the intro-silence / finding the right offset afterwards

oh also I'ma steal Oko's star bc I was here first
ätschbätsch
yeeeeesssssssssssss also fixed metadata from last post
Okoayu
ok cool

log
2017-06-29 22:01 Fenza: did bonsai poke you about checking this map?
2017-06-29 22:01 Fenza: ACTION is listening to [https://osu.ppy.sh/b/1101611 Bernd Krueger - Sonata No.14 in cis-Moll, Op. 27/2 - 3. Satz]
2017-06-29 22:01 Fenza: just making sure cause he's been away alot
2017-06-29 22:01 Okorin: are you still taking dictators as avatars
2017-06-29 22:01 Fenza: just as a joke
2017-06-29 22:09 Okorin: is this hrable
2017-06-29 22:09 Fenza: sorry for all the 250 bursts
2017-06-29 22:09 Fenza: i think it is
2017-06-29 22:09 Okorin: what about muting sliderticks
2017-06-29 22:09 Fenza: should be
2017-06-29 22:10 Okorin: 00:51:344 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4) - should probably change directions more often
2017-06-29 22:10 Fenza: i guess i could
2017-06-29 22:11 Okorin: 02:08:531 (1,2) - is kinda hard to read and i think itd look bitter if it was more tilted
2017-06-29 22:12 Okorin: 02:53:036 (1,2,1,2,1,2) - intensity is building up towards last instance of back forths in music, map is doing same intensity, but then map is doing building up intensity in 02:50:109 (2,3,1,2,1,2) -
2017-06-29 22:12 Fenza: how do you mean?
2017-06-29 22:12 Okorin: i think building up works better
2017-06-29 22:13 Fenza: with more tilted i mean
2017-06-29 22:13 Okorin: slightly tilted to the side like almost all your other slider patterns with two anchors
2017-06-29 22:14 Fenza: https://osu.ppy.sh/ss/8469889
2017-06-29 22:14 Fenza: something like this?
2017-06-29 22:15 Okorin: 04:32:893 (1,2) - circle is hiding repeat arrow completely
2017-06-29 22:15 Okorin: search for other patterns that do the same cuz that's not rankable lol
2017-06-29 22:16 Fenza: alright
2017-06-29 22:16 Fenza: shouldnt be too many
2017-06-29 22:16 Fenza: those sliders should actually just be a 1/8 repverse slider for 5 beats
2017-06-29 22:16 Fenza: but its impossible with a timing point on the 2nd beat
2017-06-29 22:16 Fenza: or the 3rd beat
2017-06-29 22:16 Okorin: 05:02:437 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7) - all other patterns are slightly tilted to side but this isnt in this section
2017-06-29 22:17 Fenza: quick fix
2017-06-29 22:17 Okorin: 05:12:572 (1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2) - buildup is misrepresentative of the song, 05:13:667 (1,2) - should be wayy stronger, additionally http://i.imgur.com/Zpimelr.png these colors next to each other are too similar
2017-06-29 22:18 Okorin: 05:47:800 (1,2,1,2,3,4) - would keep these in red because holy shit lol
2017-06-29 22:19 Okorin: ok thats literally all
2017-06-29 22:20 Fenza: dude nice
2017-06-29 22:20 Fenza: gimme a few minutes and ill fix all of it
2017-06-29 22:23 Fenza: also made one of the blue colors more distinct from the others
2017-06-29 22:29 Fenza: just one question
2017-06-29 22:30 Fenza: or advice really
2017-06-29 22:30 Fenza: https://osu.ppy.sh/ss/8470016
2017-06-29 22:30 Fenza: should i do the NC like this
2017-06-29 22:30 Fenza: because ive NC'd most of the 1/1 gaps in this bit
2017-06-29 22:30 Okorin: get two reds redo entire map profit
2017-06-29 22:30 Fenza: or do i just do like this05:47:328 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11) -
2017-06-29 22:30 Okorin: XD
2017-06-29 22:30 Fenza: lol
2017-06-29 22:30 Fenza: kill me pls
2017-06-29 22:31 Fenza: https://osu.ppy.sh/ss/8470025
2017-06-29 22:31 Fenza: other plan was just this
2017-06-29 22:32 Fenza: if thats alright
2017-06-29 22:32 Okorin: yeah
2017-06-29 22:32 Fenza: ok thank god
2017-06-29 22:32 Fenza: doing NC's is super tedious :p
2017-06-29 22:33 Fenza: alright
2017-06-29 22:33 Fenza: i updated with the changes
2017-06-29 22:39 Fenza: mind taking another skim through?
2017-06-29 22:39 Okorin: sure
2017-06-29 22:39 Fenza: ACTION is editing [https://osu.ppy.sh/b/1101611 Bernd Krueger - Sonata No.14 in cis-Moll, Op. 27/2 - 3. Satz [Presto Agitato]]
2017-06-29 22:40 Okorin: i dont see the difference between two blues still
2017-06-29 22:40 Fenza: do you have the default skin?
2017-06-29 22:40 Fenza: i can make the contrast even bigger 1 sec
2017-06-29 22:40 Okorin: im in edit with default skin
2017-06-29 22:41 Fenza: to me it's like night and dayt
2017-06-29 22:41 Fenza: i can change it though
2017-06-29 22:41 Fenza: no biggie
2017-06-29 22:41 Okorin: not with my monitor settings then
2017-06-29 22:41 Fenza: https://osu.ppy.sh/ss/8470126
2017-06-29 22:41 Fenza: this good?
2017-06-29 22:42 Okorin: dats good but now saturation of that blue is much higher than the rest in comparison
2017-06-29 22:43 Okorin: 47 106 196 ish should work
2017-06-29 22:43 Fenza: https://osu.ppy.sh/ss/8470141
2017-06-29 22:43 Fenza: i could use a color like this
2017-06-29 22:43 Fenza: so i get a bit of color from his face too
2017-06-29 22:43 Fenza: but not so it blends with it
2017-06-29 22:43 Okorin: you didnt do anything to 02:52:670 (1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2) - ?
2017-06-29 22:44 Fenza: what was it that you wanted changed?
2017-06-29 22:44 Okorin: its up there as like 3d suggestion
2017-06-29 22:44 Fenza: oh i see
2017-06-29 22:44 Fenza: yeah i found it
2017-06-29 22:45 Okorin: that you changed 05:13:667 (1,2) - but left 05:16:577 (1,2) - as is is lol
2017-06-29 22:45 Okorin: dunno if you did mute sliderticks
2017-06-29 22:45 Okorin: doesnt seem like it
2017-06-29 22:45 Okorin: any reason for that
2017-06-29 22:46 Fenza: https://osu.ppy.sh/ss/8470167
2017-06-29 22:46 Fenza: did this
2017-06-29 22:46 Fenza: ill do it now
2017-06-29 22:47 Fenza: gimme a sec
2017-06-29 22:47 Fenza: just gotta find a good queit mp3 sound
2017-06-29 22:47 Okorin: you can silence sliderticks if you have sliderslide sounds
2017-06-29 22:47 Okorin: which you do
2017-06-29 22:47 Okorin: lol
2017-06-29 22:47 Okorin: like completely silencing
2017-06-29 22:47 Okorin: lol
2017-06-29 22:47 Fenza: what
2017-06-29 22:48 Fenza: how
2017-06-29 22:48 Fenza: excuse my brain
2017-06-29 22:48 Fenza: is rather slow
2017-06-29 22:48 Okorin: XD
2017-06-29 22:48 Fenza: what exactly do you want me to do? xd
2017-06-29 22:48 Fenza: just add a quiet mp3 for sliderticks right?
2017-06-29 22:49 Okorin: https://up.ppy.sh/files/blank.wav
2017-06-29 22:49 Fenza: i already have one
2017-06-29 22:49 Fenza: thanks though <3
2017-06-29 22:49 Okorin: ,
2017-06-29 22:49 Okorin: ,,
2017-06-29 22:49 Okorin: man
2017-06-29 22:49 Okorin: LOL
2017-06-29 22:49 Fenza: what
2017-06-29 22:50 Fenza: man i ate sleeping pills like 2 hours ago
2017-06-29 22:50 Fenza: but i want this shit done before i go to sleep
2017-06-29 22:50 Fenza: xd
2017-06-29 22:50 Okorin: nothing, im just laughing because i cant decide if this is ultra dense or if both of us just were talking about different thing
2017-06-29 22:50 Okorin: s
2017-06-29 22:50 Fenza: dont you want me to silence sliderticks
2017-06-29 22:50 Okorin: HELP MEEEE
2017-06-29 22:51 Fenza: HELP ME
2017-06-29 22:52 Okorin: bonsai also doesnt know what you want
2017-06-29 22:52 Okorin: do you know how to silence a hitsound
2017-06-29 22:53 Fenza: add a silent mp3 and give it the name of that hitobject and sample
2017-06-29 22:53 Fenza: i just did and sliderticks are dead silent
2017-06-29 22:53 Okorin: :tada:
2017-06-29 22:53 Fenza: then what is the fuss about
2017-06-29 22:53 Fenza: xd
2017-06-29 22:54 Okorin: man
2017-06-29 22:54 Fenza: ok i updated with silent tick
2017-06-29 22:54 Okorin: i have absolutely
2017-06-29 22:54 Okorin: no idea
2017-06-29 22:55 Fenza: lol
2017-06-29 22:55 Fenza: best modding session of my life
2017-06-29 22:55 Fenza: xd
2017-06-29 22:55 Fenza: redl so you get the F I L E
2017-06-29 22:55 Fenza: also do you know where bonsai is
2017-06-29 22:55 Okorin: im glad that this is entertaining at least
2017-06-29 22:55 Fenza: he just disappears for long periods of time
2017-06-29 22:55 Fenza: or is it that i dont catch him online
2017-06-29 22:56 Okorin: he's singing in 7 choirs
2017-06-29 22:56 Fenza: oh yeah
2017-06-29 22:56 Fenza: he did tell me that was going to slow down though
2017-06-29 22:56 Fenza: oh he was on 3 hours ago
2017-06-29 22:56 Fenza: and i missed him
2017-06-29 22:56 Fenza: aaa
2017-06-29 22:57 Fenza: im so lucky bonsai found this and just decided to go out of his way to get it ranked
2017-06-29 22:57 Okorin: can i recheck properly tomorrow
2017-06-29 22:57 Okorin: if i dont find anything from this state ill just bubble
2017-06-29 22:58 Fenza: do what you think is most fitting
2017-06-29 22:59 Fenza: one day is nothing compared to the 2 months it took to do the timing check <3
2017-06-29 22:59 Fenza: also i really need to go to sleep before i pass out in my chair
2017-06-29 22:59 Okorin: then
2017-06-29 22:59 Okorin: by all means
2017-06-29 22:59 Okorin: do that
2017-06-29 22:59 Okorin: holy shit
2017-06-29 23:00 Fenza: i have stupid sleeping problems
2017-06-29 23:00 Fenza: so i need pills
2017-06-29 23:00 Fenza: thanks for checking the map btw
2017-06-29 23:00 Fenza: look forward to the full one tomorrow :D
2017-06-29 23:02 Fenza: good night
Topic Starter
Fenza
sweeeet
sorry for being annoying
Bonsai
So for the last few days I was considering whether to actually mod this on my regular level of detail or just say fuck it and qualify, sadly here I am with a wall of text lol

Since most sections of the song occur multiple times, the points I raise apply to those repeated section too more often than not, I just didn't mention them bc (hopefully) you have more orientation in this map than I do :P
(pls don't feel demotivated xdd)
  1. 00:05:606 (1,2) - This jump seems very low compared to all the other ones, why not move (2) more to the right?
  2. 00:27:296 (1,2) versus 00:24:407 (1,2) seems random too, I find the low spacing quite fitting here but whatever you want, just not so different from each other, assuming that there's no particular reason for that ^^
  3. 00:30:579 - Kinda a matter of taste, but I personally dislike the fact that you basically NC'd every object in this section, it completely removes the musical.. line, emphasis.. idk words, but I feel like just NCing every measure would be more fitting
    Also you decided to barely do that at 03:24:094 so :psy:
  4. 00:36:975 - For this section I think I suggested unstacking the different harmonies/measures multiple times in irc but you never responded, idk, did you understand what I meant? Do you dislike it? Bc I dislike how the note-placement completely ignores all the changes in the harmony and makes it into one long stagnant pattern, I don't find that to be very fitting tbh
  5. 00:16:635 (1) - Why do you start putting the Whistles on these sliderheads here? You didn't do it at 00:13:672 (1) either, I kinda find it weird to change the use from offbeats to onbeats, and if you leave them out here too it would build a stronger contrast to 00:17:746 (1)
  6. 00:42:929 (2,4,6) - You set drum-hitnormals for those but didn't for 00:44:747 (2,4,6) -, idc which way you prefer but it being inconsistent feels weird to me
  7. 00:43:384 (5) - 00:46:293 (5) - Just a personal suggestion, I feel like NCs would fit quite well here!
  8. 00:45:929 (3,4) - No good mod without a bit of nazi'ing, those two are spaced a little too low for a follow-point to appear, which appears between all the other objects of the combo :P
  9. 00:48:111 (5,1) - I realize you spaced this so low to have the slider perfectly go through the circle, but tbh I don't find that to be looking any better or any worse than spacing it normally and having it overlap, imo the sound on (1) is "radical" enough for it to "justify" an overlap like that, but it really deserves more emphasis imo
  10. Also I think you messed up your Kiais here lol, like, here the strong note at 00:48:475 isn't Kiai but the following quiet stream is Kiai, whereas at 00:54:666 the strong note is Kiai and then ends at the next measure lol, I feel like using the second version at the first spot too would make most sense
    Also I feel like it would be more fitting to start the next Kiai at 01:00:053 bc that's kinda the climax of the phrase, and also the map is actually changing something there, putting more emphasis on that note by making it a hold-slider, whereas 00:58:617 is just continuing the stream but making it less intense which seems contradictive to KiaiTime xd
  11. 00:53:152 - I don't find the Clap here very fitting because that's not the same sort of note like those that have been Clapped on before
  12. 00:55:742 (5) - I very much like that you only use NCs on the strong notes here, but if you do it that way here I feel like you should also not NC 00:49:543 (1) - 00:50:260 (1) - 00:50:983 (1) -, and not NC at 00:58:976 (1,1,1) at all either
  13. 01:18:859 (1,1) - NCing here destroys the consistency with the combo at 01:08:826 (1) and also keeps you from highlighting 01:20:685 (2) with an NC which it would very much deserve imo, so I'd suggest not to NC those but the (2) instead. You didn't do it at 02:55:415 (4) anyways so that's just inconsistent hehe
  14. 01:25:371 (1) - 01:28:693 (1) - I don't find NCs like these necessary bc again I feel like it destroys the musical pattern, do you?
  15. 01:33:659 (1,2) - 01:34:059 (1,2) - 01:34:459 (1,2) - 01:34:848 (1,2) - Why do you space these out so much when you stop doing that at 01:35:238 -? imo since those first notes are generally quieter they should be spaced that low too
  16. 02:08:531 - There's no note on the sliderhead here, should just be a circle on the 1/8-tick
  17. 02:36:625 - Why did you lower the volume so much to here? Seems very weird when you did it completely different at 01:00:053 -, those sections sound completely the same to me but give completely different feedback
  18. 02:45:376 (1,2,3) - This looks really weird to me, visual spacing of (1,3) is really cramped and doesn't really fit to the rest of the patterns in these sections, seems more like a I-had-to-fix-something-and-make-up-for-different-placement tbh lol
  19. 03:07:421 (1) - If you put the funky green into the NC-mix here, why not at 01:30:871 (1) too? looks kinda boring there anyways, also the following ones too ofc
    Haha I just realized that all those NC-suggestions/-changes are gonna need you to re-colorhax everything xddd sorry
  20. 03:12:925 (1,1,2,3,1) - uuuh since you forced so much variation in that previous pattern-section already I feel like having 03:13:292 (1) - be a slider is really out of place bc it's not special at all anymore, I'd rather suggest to make it like this so that there's some more recognizable difference between these two sections
    Also I just noticed that the timing isn't smooth here which seems stupid to me, my bad, just make 03:12:552 be 162,0 bpm; I'll most likely have to rebubble anything so this doesn't matter anymore either but makes it more accable in case you decide to apply the point I just made
  21. 03:27:150 (1) - Why aren't you splitting this slider into 1/1+circle like the previous ones anymore? o:
  22. Another thing I mentioned in irc already but you didn't respond, why do you leave out notes from the main-melody-line like 03:31:233 but randomly map some of the perma-background-1/4s like 03:31:638 -? Also your NCing in this section seems completely random so maybe try to bring structure into that too, tho I guess that's hard without bringing structure into the 1/4s first
  23. 03:48:669 (3) - 03:50:244 (3) - Again I feel like NCs on these would fit very nicely for strong and equal emphasis on equally strong notes, and not having any on 03:51:036 (5) seems out of place anyways
  24. 03:53:542 (2,1,2,3,1,2,3,1,2) - uhmm I can kinda see what the reason for the NCing here is, but just let me tell you that it seems messy as fuck so I'd really recommend to make it a bit more.. logical, like, 03:53:728 (1,2,3,1,2,3) being two 3-object-combos in a musical pattern that only consists of groups of 4 does not fit at all, I guess it would already feel a lot more fitting if you simply don't NC 03:53:728 bc there's really no reason at all for that, and with that not being NCd everything else seems a bit more reasonable
  25. 04:04:528 (1) - 04:05:344 (1) - Those being NCd doesn't seem very fitting to me, especially after 04:02:894 (1,2,3) being in one combo too
  26. 04:47:213 - seems like the volume here is 10% too high on accident
  27. 05:26:379 (2,1) - wth lol, I do see that that blue tick is much louder than the white tick for some reason but really this is weird as fuck and if you just map it normally the hitsounds are much too loud to notice that anyways so I'd suggest mapping it normally xd
  28. 05:28:378 (1,2,3) - :thinkgin.. (it's 3, the blanket looks very off)
  29. 05:35:570 (1,1,2,3,1,1) - Same issue as before but pointing it out again to make sure, you see, even visually this bundles 05:35:831 (3,1) together but seperates 05:35:919 (1,1) which is the exact opposite of what's happening in the music, I understand that you wanna emphasize 05:35:657 (1,2,3) more than the previous notes, but I strongly recommend to try finding another way to do that that still allows you to seperate these combos/sections fittingly
  30. 05:45:824 - You 5%-ed other overmapped tails like this before, why not this one too?
  31. 05:47:800 (6) - Shouldn't this be NC'd and in the not-so-fresh green? xd
  32. 05:50:451 - NCing in this section is all over the place, like why is 05:54:285 (1) NC'd and why not 05:55:087 (3) but why 05:55:491 (1) - blabla, just try to bring some more structure into it yourself, also I don't feel like it's necessary to NC 05:52:402 (1,1) but whatever
  33. 05:57:788 - I didn't double-check but I feel like everytime this section occurs you found a different way to NC it lol
  34. 06:03:683 (2) - Feels weird to not put a Whistle on this when it's emphasized just as much as the other notes, I'd rather break the hitsounding-pattern in order to match the gameplay tbh
  35. 06:19:154 (1,1,2,1) - Not 100% sure about this but I feel like this will be more playable if you let these reverse five times instead of using circles, like, it doesn't really change how it will be read because someone who would misread the five reverses as four would also misread the four reverses as three; Since the speed of those reverses is higher anyways I think players are less likely to focus on the amount of reverses but simply on the time-gap to the next clickable note, which is shorter when you insert those circles, while it stays the same when jsut using five reverses (bc the rhythm is actually accurate 1/5s to the same BPM)
  36. 06:22:113 (1,1,1,1,1,1,1) - (and a few more 1s) - I don't really get what your Clap-structure is here, I'd just go for always putting Claps on either the first or the second note of the big intervals, so either of 06:23:070 (1,1) and 06:23:896 (1,1) and 06:25:344 (1,1) and 06:25:857 (1,1) and 06:26:456 (1,1) and 06:26:862 (1,1) and 06:27:221 (1,1) - Personally it seems like musically the accentuation is more on the low/first ones of the two, but if you place them on the high/last of the two then you end this pattern with a Clap which might be something you like, so idc ^^
  37. 06:45:619 (1,1) - not really important so feel free to ignore: Related to some previous point, here the two (1)s are visually more separated than 06:45:526 (4,1) which is kinda not what's really happening in the music ofc, so maybe not putting that jump between the (1)s and instead just DSing regularly would be cool for you, but I can't recall if that would apply to more streams that just this final one (it probably does), so that's why you can freely ignore it if it does :P
  38. 06:49:403 (1,1) - Highly personal-taste-suggestion again but I feel like it would fit to place these on the borders of the playfield for maximum emphasis ^^
/run

edit: Modding Assistant found a few more things
  1. Oko apparently gave you an improper blank hitsound-file lol, here's a proper one
  2. A few red lines and green lines on the same spot have conflicting settings:
    1. 01:00:053 (kiai)
    2. 04:06:676 (volume level)
    3. 04:55:591 (kiai)
  3. These green lines aren't snapped properly, some of them being too late so they don't give the desired effect for the right note so they might actually matter I guess
    1. 01:09:011
    2. 03:51:827
    3. 05:30:455
    4. 06:17:722
    5. 06:18:079
    6. 06:18:436
    7. 06:39:213
I'm so sorry
headphonewearer
oj
Okoayu
my god use the proper .wav file when completely silencing something

i mean here's the log of that night:
22:47 Okorin: you can silence sliderticks if you have sliderslide sounds
22:47 Okorin: which you do
22:47 Okorin: lol
22:47 Okorin: like completely silencing
22:47 Okorin: lol
22:47 Fenza: what
22:48 Fenza: how
22:48 Fenza: excuse my brain
22:48 Fenza: is rather slow
22:48 Okorin: XD
22:48 Fenza: what exactly do you want me to do? xd
22:48 Fenza: just add a quiet mp3 for sliderticks right?
22:49 Okorin: https://up.ppy.sh/files/blank.wav
22:49 Fenza: i already have one
22:49 Fenza: thanks though <3
22:49 Okorin: ,
22:49 Okorin: ,,
22:49 Okorin: man
22:49 Okorin: LOL
22:49 Fenza: what
22:50 Fenza: man i ate sleeping pills like 2 hours ago
22:50 Fenza: but i want this shit done before i go to sleep
22:50 Fenza: xd
22:50 Okorin: nothing, im just laughing because i cant decide if this is ultra dense or if both of us just were talking about different thing
22:50 Okorin: s
22:50 Fenza: dont you want me to silence sliderticks
22:50 Okorin: HELP MEEEE

i linked the correct file how did you manage to screw this up
Topic Starter
Fenza
i dont even know at this point
Battle
w
Topic Starter
Fenza
Ill apply Bonsai's mod in a while lots of irl things happening right now :(
Hpocks
+3 sp
Chris Jasorka
pls fix, i wanna set scores on this ;w;
Topic Starter
Fenza

Bonsai wrote:

So for the last few days I was considering whether to actually mod this on my regular level of detail or just say fuck it and qualify, sadly here I am with a wall of text lol

Since most sections of the song occur multiple times, the points I raise apply to those repeated section too more often than not, I just didn't mention them bc (hopefully) you have more orientation in this map than I do :P
(pls don't feel demotivated xdd)
  1. 00:05:606 (1,2) - This jump seems very low compared to all the other ones, why not move (2) more to the right? ok
  2. 00:27:296 (1,2) versus 00:24:407 (1,2) seems random too, I find the low spacing quite fitting here but whatever you want, just not so different from each other, assuming that there's no particular reason for that ^^ spaced 00:24:407 (1,2) out a bit because it doesnt break flow
  3. 00:30:579 - Kinda a matter of taste, but I personally dislike the fact that you basically NC'd every object in this section, it completely removes the musical.. line, emphasis.. idk words, but I feel like just NCing every measure would be more fitting i did it because of slider velocity changes and colorhax, ill do the same on the part you mentioned to keep it consistent
    Also you decided to barely do that at 03:24:094 so :psy:
  4. 00:36:975 - For this section I think I suggested unstacking the different harmonies/measures multiple times in irc but you never responded, idk, did you understand what I meant? Do you dislike it? Bc I dislike how the note-placement completely ignores all the changes in the harmony and makes it into one long stagnant pattern, I don't find that to be very fitting tbh 00:37:891 (2,3) - 00:38:258 (4,5) - i feel like i want to emphasise these a bit more now that you mention. I dont really notice too big of a difference though

  5. 00:16:635 (1) - Why do you start putting the Whistles on these sliderheads here? You didn't do it at 00:13:672 (1) either, I kinda find it weird to change the use from offbeats to onbeats, and if you leave them out here too it would build a stronger contrast to 00:17:746 (1) alright


    WILL CONTINUE APPLYING LATER
  6. 00:42:929 (2,4,6) - You set drum-hitnormals for those but didn't for 00:44:747 (2,4,6) -, idc which way you prefer but it being inconsistent feels weird to me done
  7. 00:43:384 (5) - 00:46:293 (5) - Just a personal suggestion, I feel like NCs would fit quite well here! ok
  8. 00:45:929 (3,4) - No good mod without a bit of nazi'ing, those two are spaced a little too low for a follow-point to appear, which appears between all the other objects of the combo :P yes
  9. 00:48:111 (5,1) - I realize you spaced this so low to have the slider perfectly go through the circle, but tbh I don't find that to be looking any better or any worse than spacing it normally and having it overlap, imo the sound on (1) is "radical" enough for it to "justify" an overlap like that, but it really deserves more emphasis imo changed curve a bit
  10. Also I think you messed up your Kiais here lol, like, here the strong note at 00:48:475 isn't Kiai but the following quiet stream is Kiai, whereas at 00:54:666 the strong note is Kiai and then ends at the next measure lol, I feel like using the second version at the first spot too would make most sense
    Also I feel like it would be more fitting to start the next Kiai at 01:00:053 bc that's kinda the climax of the phrase, and also the map is actually changing something there, putting more emphasis on that note by making it a hold-slider, whereas 00:58:617 is just continuing the stream but making it less intense which seems contradictive to KiaiTime xd this was all just a blunder, nice pointing it out
  11. 00:53:152 - I don't find the Clap here very fitting because that's not the same sort of note like those that have been Clapped on before alright
  12. 00:55:742 (5) - I very much like that you only use NCs on the strong notes here, but if you do it that way here I feel like you should also not NC 00:49:543 (1) - 00:50:260 (1) - 00:50:983 (1) -, and not NC at 00:58:976 (1,1,1) at all either i like this
  13. 01:18:859 (1,1) - NCing here destroys the consistency with the combo at 01:08:826 (1) and also keeps you from highlighting 01:20:685 (2) with an NC which it would very much deserve imo, so I'd suggest not to NC those but the (2) instead. You didn't do it at 02:55:415 (4) anyways so that's just inconsistent hehe blunder again, nice
  14. 01:25:371 (1) - 01:28:693 (1) - I don't find NCs like these necessary bc again I feel like it destroys the musical pattern, do you? the point is to make the drastic SV change from 01:25:067 (1) - more readable and i think it does just that so ill leave it as is
  15. 01:33:659 (1,2) - 01:34:059 (1,2) - 01:34:459 (1,2) - 01:34:848 (1,2) - Why do you space these out so much when you stop doing that at 01:35:238 -? imo since those first notes are generally quieter they should be spaced that low too spaced the second part out more to keep consistency
  16. 02:08:531 - There's no note on the sliderhead here, should just be a circle on the 1/8-tick
  17. 02:36:625 - Why did you lower the volume so much to here? Seems very weird when you did it completely different at 01:00:053 -, those sections sound completely the same to me but give completely different feedback blunder again
  18. 02:45:376 (1,2,3) - This looks really weird to me, visual spacing of (1,3) is really cramped and doesn't really fit to the rest of the patterns in these sections, seems more like a I-had-to-fix-something-and-make-up-for-different-placement tbh lol i think its fine? Doesnt really matter too much imo
  19. 03:07:421 (1) - If you put the funky green into the NC-mix here, why not at 01:30:871 (1) too? looks kinda boring there anyways, also the following ones too ofc tbh i havent cared about any other color than red being on only 1/6, 1/8 and 1/12 that i havent even noticed
    Haha I just realized that all those NC-suggestions/-changes are gonna need you to re-colorhax everything xddd sorry
  20. 03:12:925 (1,1,2,3,1) - uuuh since you forced so much variation in that previous pattern-section already I feel like having 03:13:292 (1) - be a slider is really out of place bc it's not special at all anymore, I'd rather suggest to make it like this so that there's some more recognizable difference between these two sections i think this is ok
    Also I just noticed that the timing isn't smooth here which seems stupid to me, my bad, just make 03:12:552 be 162,0 bpm; I'll most likely have to rebubble anything so this doesn't matter anymore either but makes it more accable in case you decide to apply the point I just made alright
  21. 03:27:150 (1) - Why aren't you splitting this slider into 1/1+circle like the previous ones anymore? o: idk but fixed
  22. Another thing I mentioned in irc already but you didn't respond, why do you leave out notes from the main-melody-line like 03:31:233 but randomly map some of the perma-background-1/4s like 03:31:638 -? Also your NCing in this section seems completely random so maybe try to bring structure into that too, tho I guess that's hard without bringing structure into the 1/4s first fixing it up a bit
  23. 03:48:669 (3) - 03:50:244 (3) - Again I feel like NCs on these would fit very nicely for strong and equal emphasis on equally strong notes, and not having any on 03:51:036 (5) seems out of place anyways nced all 3
  24. 03:53:542 (2,1,2,3,1,2,3,1,2) - uhmm I can kinda see what the reason for the NCing here is, but just let me tell you that it seems messy as fuck so I'd really recommend to make it a bit more.. logical, like, 03:53:728 (1,2,3,1,2,3) being two 3-object-combos in a musical pattern that only consists of groups of 4 does not fit at all, I guess it would already feel a lot more fitting if you simply don't NC 03:53:728 bc there's really no reason at all for that, and with that not being NCd everything else seems a bit more reasonable 03:53:542 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1) - did this
  25. 04:04:528 (1) - 04:05:344 (1) - Those being NCd doesn't seem very fitting to me, especially after 04:02:894 (1,2,3) being in one combo tooagree
  26. 04:47:213 - seems like the volume here is 10% too high on accident yep
  27. 05:26:379 (2,1) - wth lol, I do see that that blue tick is much louder than the white tick for some reason but really this is weird as fuck and if you just map it normally the hitsounds are much too loud to notice that anyways so I'd suggest mapping it normally xd since players should be pretty used to bpm changes at this point its probably not going to be hard to read, ill keep this as it fits the song the best
  28. 05:28:378 (1,2,3) - :thinkgin.. (it's 3, the blanket looks very off) i have no idea what happened here
  29. 05:35:570 (1,1,2,3,1,1) - Same issue as before but pointing it out again to make sure, you see, even visually this bundles 05:35:831 (3,1) together but seperates 05:35:919 (1,1) which is the exact opposite of what's happening in the music, I understand that you wanna emphasize 05:35:657 (1,2,3) more than the previous notes, but I strongly recommend to try finding another way to do that that still allows you to seperate these combos/sections fittingly just gonna remap the parts alltogether, they dont make sense at all anymore
  30. 05:45:824 - You 5%-ed other overmapped tails like this before, why not this one too? done
  31. 05:47:800 (6) - Shouldn't this be NC'd and in the not-so-fresh green? xd same as above also redoing all of the colorhax cause of this mod
  32. 05:50:451 - NCing in this section is all over the place, like why is 05:54:285 (1) NC'd and why not 05:55:087 (3) but why 05:55:491 (1) - blabla, just try to bring some more structure into it yourself, also I don't feel like it's necessary to NC 05:52:402 (1,1) but whatever fixed the sections NC
  33. 05:57:788 - I didn't double-check but I feel like everytime this section occurs you found a different way to NC it lol fixed it all when you pointed it out earlier :p
  34. 06:03:683 (2) - Feels weird to not put a Whistle on this when it's emphasized just as much as the other notes, I'd rather break the hitsounding-pattern in order to match the gameplay tbh was a mistake
  35. 06:19:154 (1,1,2,1) - Not 100% sure about this but I feel like this will be more playable if you let these reverse five times instead of using circles, like, it doesn't really change how it will be read because someone who would misread the five reverses as four would also misread the four reverses as three; Since the speed of those reverses is higher anyways I think players are less likely to focus on the amount of reverses but simply on the time-gap to the next clickable note, which is shorter when you insert those circles, while it stays the same when jsut using five reverses (bc the rhythm is actually accurate 1/5s to the same BPM) i personally think its easier to read as it is even though both suggestions are harder to read, ill just stick with what i have for now
  36. 06:22:113 (1,1,1,1,1,1,1) - (and a few more 1s) - I don't really get what your Clap-structure is here, I'd just go for always putting Claps on either the first or the second note of the big intervals, so either of 06:23:070 (1,1) and 06:23:896 (1,1) and 06:25:344 (1,1) and 06:25:857 (1,1) and 06:26:456 (1,1) and 06:26:862 (1,1) and 06:27:221 (1,1) - Personally it seems like musically the accentuation is more on the low/first ones of the two, but if you place them on the high/last of the two then you end this pattern with a Clap which might be something you like, so idc ^^
  37. 06:45:619 (1,1) - not really important so feel free to ignore: Related to some previous point, here the two (1)s are visually more separated than 06:45:526 (4,1) which is kinda not what's really happening in the music ofc, so maybe not putting that jump between the (1)s and instead just DSing regularly would be cool for you, but I can't recall if that would apply to more streams that just this final one (it probably does), so that's why you can freely ignore it if it does :P
  38. 06:49:403 (1,1) - Highly personal-taste-suggestion again but I feel like it would fit to place these on the borders of the playfield for maximum emphasis ^^sure
/run

edit: Modding Assistant found a few more things
  1. Oko apparently gave you an improper blank hitsound-file lol, here's a proper one
  2. A few red lines and green lines on the same spot have conflicting settings:
    1. 01:00:053 (kiai)
    2. 04:06:676 (volume level)
    3. 04:55:591 (kiai)
  3. These green lines aren't snapped properly, some of them being too late so they don't give the desired effect for the right note so they might actually matter I guess
    1. 01:09:011
    2. 03:51:827
    3. 05:30:455
    4. 06:17:722
    5. 06:18:079
    6. 06:18:436
    7. 06:39:213
I'm so sorry
MOD FINALLY APPLIED AAAAAAA
now i have to colorhax again :(
Okoayu
might as well use two reds then
Bonsai
Bonsai
Bernd Krueger is my favourite classical composer!

(metadata)
Topic Starter
Fenza
yes
Okoayu
all beethoven pics i googled look like he wants to murder a baby chicken just to see how you react
Bonsai
Kilabarus
IT IS HAPPENING NOW!!
Great map!
Pachiru
gg man, it's nice to see some classical map on osu, it's a pleasure to see something different from what we use to see :)
Hpocks
yes nice!
pregnant_man
o congrats
LMT
grats Fenza you did it!!
Feb
that log is hilarious. good, something new i like.
pw384
amazing!
Mismagius
Topic Starter
Fenza

Mismagius wrote:



(reference)
what is this
Bonsai

Fenza wrote:

what is this
Beethoven's 5th Symphony
Topic Starter
Fenza
daanit
Congrats dude :)
white_
Amazing!
DeletedUser_4329079
that timing holy shit
Raiden
mother of god
HML
I love you
ts8zs
one of the best timing
cyprianz5
fajne
reanik
I was so confused by the title when I heard Moonlight Sonata's 3rd movement start playing when I went to download this lol
joe01489
Incredible map! Are you ever gonna map the other two movements? (pls puppy eyes)
Topic Starter
Fenza

joe01489 wrote:

Incredible map! Are you ever gonna map the other two movements? (pls puppy eyes)
Im currently mapping his appassionata mov 1 (played by valentina lisitsa)
MathildaRoxana
woow asombroso
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