for some reason that guideline seems contradictory, because there is another one that specifies that any unauthorized audio edition cannot be mapped (if is a remix or a song compilation there is no problem).
What rule/guideline are you talking about? I can't find anything about this in the RC honestlyxtrem3x wrote:
for some reason that guideline seems contradictory, because there is another one that specifies that any unauthorized audio edition cannot be mapped (if is a remix or a song compilation there is no problem).
The reason why I went for "Sped" and not "Speed" is that this has been (unofficially) changed a few weeks ago because it seems to be more correct grammatically as you said. Therefore I simply went along with it, however I don't mind whether it's Speed or Sped, either one works in my opinion.xenal wrote:
First, I've never seen "Sped up ver." and doesn't look fine in my eyes either (old site shows only 4 results for it (exluding results which aren't using "sped")). "Speed up ver." is more standardly used. "Sped" may be better grammatically speaking, but "Speed up" is the one used all across the web (like "value of "Speed" as been increased up", not as a actual verb)
You're right, the definition of Nightcore is quite tricky indeed, I also agree with you that the most common usage should be followed, which is higher speed and pitch. So technically it's the same as Spe(e)d Up Ver. and perhaps using only one of the two markers would be a better option but I'm not sure if that's ideal since both markers have been used a lot for past maps. On YouTube, any type of song that is sped up is mostly labeled as Nightcore, this genre distinction I talked about in the OP is probably an osu thing but it does make sense somehow because originally, Nightcore was used for electronic dance music. So yea, it just comes down to what usage is preferred by most people and what is most common.xenal wrote:
Now the difference between Nightcore and Speed up is an issue here. Nightcore genre itself isn't really defined. It's a young style to start with and not a music genre in itself because it's mostly a modification of an other song. A definition cannot be set in stone. Some people will say it's trance and dance music with 160-180bpm and high pitch, including sped up songs, also kinda including happy hardcore, and others will just say it's sped and pitched up music around 10%-30%. Currently, youtube seems to go with the flow and use the second (more popular and agreed on) (Youtube auto nightcore channel). There is no RELIABLE source for a official definition and I think the popular opinion should be used instead of the "origins".
I feel like speed up should be more like "well bpm is so low I can't make a good map, so let me just speed this up in audacity real quick" kinda of stuff, like https://osu.ppy.sh/beatmapsets/240256 speed up by 100% (it's actually taken from https://youtu.be/3IJUXFXbros which is labeled as nightcore, but breaks what I said about speed above, in both bpm and %, so yeah... idk anymore), and that nightcore should be used for what can be agreed upon as nightcore
xenal wrote:
Also still going to stick with "Speed" instead of this random switch that happened in end of june to "Sped". Before Nevo said it, only 1 map got ranked using "sped" (and that was 2008, so quality is reliable xd). Said before why "Speed up" is used instead of "Sped". This is just going against the rest of the world right now, stop it already.
So in summary, while it hurt my heart to let ztrot's nightcore times go, remove nigthcore and use "Speed up" instead and enourage nightcore tag when appliable.
Nevo wrote:
Speed Up makes no sense tho?
xenal wrote:
First, I've never seen "Sped up ver." and doesn't look fine in my eyes either (old site shows only 4 results for it (exluding results which aren't using "sped")). "Speed up ver." is more standardly used. "Sped" may be better grammatically speaking, but "Speed up" is the one used everywhere (like "value of attribute "Speed" as been increased up", not as a actual verb)
Nevo wrote:
We change tv size markers to (TV Size) we change all kinds of forms of featuring to feat.
Nevo wrote:
I don't have much to add onto anything about nightcore because I won't lie I don't know jack about nightcore lol. In my eyes nightcore is when both speed and pitch are increased but tbh I really don't know xd
I feel there needs to be a distinction between increased tempo and increased tempo+pitch. It does help when searching.xenal wrote:
For the sake of simplicity and avoiding subjective definition of "Nightcore", we could simply not use it and use speedup for every thing while addind a guideline or a comment in the description of that rule to include "Nightcore" in tags for anything related to it so it can be searched more easly. Exception to maps who are by their titles nightcored (avoid mixing nightcore and speed up) like compilations.
Also still going to stick with "Speed" instead of this random switch that happened in end of june to "Sped". Before Nevo said it, only 1 map got ranked using "sped" (and that was 2008, so quality is reliable xd). Said before why "Speed up" is used instead of "Sped". This is just going against the rest of the world right now, stop it already.
So in summary, while it hurt my heart to let ztrot's nightcore times go, remove nigthcore and use "Speed up" instead and enourage nightcore tag when appliable.
Serizawa Haruki wrote:
As for the distinction between Nightcore and Spe(e)d Up, I checked several ranked maps with these markers (both new and old ones) and apparently it's not true that only Nightcore Mixes have a higher pitch, most Speed Up Ver. songs do too.
abraker wrote:
I feel there needs to be a distinction between increased tempo and increased tempo+pitch. It does help when searching.
Myxo wrote:
why would "sped up version" make more sense grammatically than "speed up version"? i'm pretty sure the intention behind the term "speed up version" is that we are talking about "the speed up" (which could be alternatively spelled as "the speedup") as a noun rather than a verb
Myxo wrote:
why would "sped up version" make more sense grammatically than "speed up version"? i'm pretty sure the intention behind the term "speed up version" is that we are talking about "the speed up" (which could be alternatively spelled as "the speedup") as a noun rather than a verb
Nevo wrote:
Sped - a simple past tense and past participle of speed.
The reason sped makes more sense is because the mp3 was edited beforehand thus making it require the past tense form of speed. For example "speeded up ver" also makes since like how a car speeded down the road.
Speed Up version makes no sense as we wouldn't say "The car speed down the road"
999 posts owo
also to add a different example
If we used say the word Accelerate we wouldn't say "Accelerate Ver." we would say "Accelerated Ver." And this works for Slow as well "Slow Down Ver." makes no sense are we telling the song to slow down :blobsweat: we would say "Slowed Down Ver." as the song was slowed down. (but who would even slow down a song hmmm)
Now that we clarified which genres require (Nightcore Mix), it's only about Speed vs Sped but I have nothing more to add about that, everything's been said already I thinkpishifat wrote:
removed this change from the pr until discussion is more settled
could i get a summary of what still needs to be cleared up?
ztrot wrote:
yeah fwiw nightcores are supposed to be used when pitch adjusting and playback speed adjusting is shifted around 1.3, 1.4x in speed. That is your basic nightcore. a nightcore mix fwiw is when you are adding something to the song edit like a drumline or an extra synth. You won't see that much as it actually takes musical know how.... That or you can just hit sync in fl studio and walk away with you laptop dj playing self.
So my take is Trance, Techno, EDM, Hardstyle, ect.. would take the nightcore title when speeding it up.
As other have said around 2008-20?? everyone started speeding up rock songs with the same settings but nightcores are the process of speeding up ELECTRONIC MUSIC!!! Nothing more, but if the guy seeding it up actually made edits to the actual song structure he should be able to name it what ever the hell he wants mix.
My 2 cents
Serizawa Haruki wrote:
Thanks for the input, you pretty much confirmed what some other people were saying about the definition of Nightcore. However, you also mentioned Hardstyle which is not in the genre list yet. Should it be included too, and what about Happy Hardcore? It's pretty similar so I'm guessing it also applies to that.
Serizawa Haruki wrote:
Now that we clarified which genres require (Nightcore Mix), it's only about Speed vs Sped but I have nothing more to add about that, everything's been said already I think
pishifat wrote:
if this is about proposing more types of vague genre markers for maps, let's avoid that. it's already hard to manage the difference between nightcore and sped up ver as seen by this thread
pishifat wrote:
could someone who's kept up with this thread post what the proposed change is here now that some discussion was had? i struggle to follow cuz i am a dumbo
pishifat wrote:
re: speed vs sped, i'll poll the bns about what they prefer
Serizawa Haruki wrote:
You are definitely correct if you think of it as a verb, however as a noun "Speed Up" makes sense too as Myxo said. I didn't realize that either until then but I think that explains why Speed Up has been used so commonly for a long time, we might as well keep it that way
seems reasonabl to me, rationale being a mapper should never be forced to write "Nightcore Mix" cuz nightcore is a genre(subjective), while "sped up" is undeniably describing the song. it doesnt really hurt to write "nightcore" but u have to remember it's a niche thing that people may not be familiar withsuggestion wrote:
Electronic music may use the "(Nightcore Mix)" marker instead.
clayton wrote:
it doesn't matter, pick petals off a daisy to decide. Noffy has already changed "Speed Up" to "Sped Up" multiple times so I'd go with that
clayton wrote:
the nightcore rule seems oddly strict& specificseems reasonabl to me, rationale being a mapper should never be forced to write "Nightcore Mix" cuz nightcore is a genre(subjective), while "sped up" is undeniably describing the song. it doesnt really hurt to write "nightcore" but u have to remember it's a niche thing that people may not be familiar withsuggestion wrote:
Electronic music may use the "(Nightcore Mix)" marker instead.
clayton wrote:
any loved map with Sped Up Ver. is cuz noffy added it, and on at least https://osu.ppy.sh/beatmapsets/763885 (will be loved soon) she requested Speed Up Ver. to be changed
clayton wrote:
my point for the second one is that if I take a techno song(or any one of the Nightcore genres), speed it up, and add the "Sped Up" tag, that's not wrong. idk why you should make the mapper change to it "Nightcore mix " when they *didn't* try to make Nightcore and they might not even know what that is. it's arguably less searchable too
clayton wrote:
I think listing genres as specific as you did is a bad idea because it makes room for arguing about whether a song fits in a certain genre and this rly isn't important. also when someone maps 2020 newmusicgenre and slaps Nightcore Mix on it they're gonna be breaking this rule even if the marker is fitting