Just coming to say that I think the normal-hitnormal is very overpowering during the stream sections, I had to reduce the effect volume to actually hear the song properly.
Congrats and nice map anyway!
Congrats and nice map anyway!
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this is a very general question. if u point out the specific object, i can answer u . and about sound effects. I talked with MrSergio about a very long text. I don't think there's a problem now
I don't think it's a mod. first. All the arguments are based on very subjective. I don't know why you're so angry .I know that even if I answer you, you won't agree with me. So I'll deny all your questions. If only for this very radical speech, the map would be DQ. so now the RANK system is not a joke? I'm not in your "mod". Look for respect .I have at least the least respect for other people's replies, but you don't have any .
If you correct your speech, I will reply to you in details
"No" just means I've read this sentence .If you want, I can change it for "why?"" Why not? ".I wanted to say that .I should reply to a MOD. rather than a whole hostile article . all mapper have the obligation to reply to other people's mod. on their map, which is a kind of etiquette .but the difference is that what you reply is a "mod".
This is a very pointless discussion:
Pointless dispute doesn't improve this map. I made the same mistake. On another map .So I understand the need to respond kindly to other people's mod., but only if I respond to a polite person
That's a very good suggestion. fix
I said. He corrected the radical remarks. I'll discuss it with him calmly .But so far, he didn't respond, so I don't think it's a ‘’mod‘’
well.I think it needs modification. It's done
i disagree with that in the first place but i dont think having the emphesis points in your stream off by one object makes your map any more interesting as it is.
consistency and creativity are not mutually exclusive
But practice makes perfect.
no.I think we have some misunderstandings .I agree consistency and creativity are not mutually exclusive. but this is a broad concept . 04:33:124 (13,14,15,16) -Like this paragraph. You reminded me. I found the difference, So I modified it in order to keep consistency .But what I want to say is consistency. It doesn't just mean a place .emmm....I think it should be better to show you an example (https://osu.ppy.sh/b/1011818). If you would like to see this example, please note 00:02:176 (1) - - through 00:41:528 (4) - .It's a very boring tempo, because there's only one monotonic beat .If you stay consistent here, it can become very boring, so when you just pay attention to these two sounds, your mind becomes very narrow .and break through this cage. That's what I want to say .But it's a tough thing because it takes time and again to test the correctness of the tempo .balance . so consistency and creativity are not mutually exclusive. But blind consistency does limit your thinking. creativity
hummm...I'm more inclined to test players on the mod issue .I've got a lot of top players to test this map.So it's the problem of difficulties. I set them up as a standard
09kami take my star as a sign of my appreciation for this masterpiece
thx
ehm, sure. btw not making this a stupid debate how should someone take mod.. Have a good day
Why are you being this disrespectful towards 09kami anyway? Could it be your ignorance? I highly doubt it's the other way around.
You might have some mapping experience, but that doesn't give you the right to point out the above to anyone really. You personally have issues with the map while most of us here don't at all. You're personally attacking a great mapper here and even predicting his future reputation as a mapper because of what YOU think? You even confirm this is rankable, so the rest of your destructive speech was unneccesary and looks like an attempt to -1 09kami while +1ing yourself.
If you don't have anything nice to say, please refrain from commenting at all. The world doesn't revolve around you.
This is a very long response. If you have the patience to read it .I don't think that will make you agree with me, but it will make you understand what I think
01:46:024 (13) -
01:45:124 (4,1) -
04:13:624 (1,2,1) -
04:37:774 (11,12,13,14,15,16,1,2,3,4) -
04:28:924 (1,2,1,2,3) -
some revise
Okay essentially we discussed for about 3 hours and 30 mins about various concerns brought up by the community + some of my own and adjusted the following:
- Stream emphasis consistency through kiais and overall in the map. While 09kami prefers to have differences between kiais, we managed to compromise in using spacing changes as a unified form of emphasis throughout all 3 kiais. We discussed the usage of more direction changes for emphasis and increasing spacing in order to establish contrast in order to provide more clear emphasis.
- The stacked 1/2 into 1/4 stream that fieryrage made a fiery rage post about (I'm not sorry) was removed in all instances. It is no longer a concept in the map.
- The 1/3 guitar stream in the solo is now mapped with 1/3.
- Differentiation between 01:28:624 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - and 01:31:024 (1,2,3,4,5,6,1) - has now been adjusted. They both are no longer the same pattern for different sounds.
- Various minor NC changes, and a pixel-fix somewhere at the end.
Hopefully these changes helped the map and polished it up to a more acceptable state for the concerned parties!
Rebubbled!
umm ...I'm sorry. because I need to build a text to translate each mod., it would be confusing for me to put multiple mod together ..I will pay more attention to this later.
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Why are these streams so ugly? Did you even use slider to stream?
Topic Starter
no.all of the streams is done manually .actually, in test, it's not particularly ugly here .emmm.....at least I think so .I can't guarantee that everyone thinks it looks goodHpocks wrote:
Why are these streams so ugly? Did you even use slider to stream?
playability > aesthetics
edit: ok there's actually things wrong with this map, wtf is wrong with the hitsounding and ncs and what are the streams even following lol
goes from vocals to guitars to drums and where is the consistency hello
edit: ok there's actually things wrong with this map, wtf is wrong with the hitsounding and ncs and what are the streams even following lol
goes from vocals to guitars to drums and where is the consistency hello
aesthetics is pretty subjective
it does look kinda weird but it fits the song
Congratz for another ranked DF ^^
ok i have to make a separate post for this
i seriously can't be bothered to look at this map more, it's not ready for ranking at all. the fact this even was considered as anything near a rankable map basically just proves the existence of a double-standard in the mapping community, as if it weren't proven already by monstrata being able to rank literally fucking anything
why did this get through with like 10 mods it so very clearly needs a LOT more than that?
- 1) why are your finish hitsounds overused in the kiais? it makes playing this song without your hitsounds feel like complete ass because all i can hear is just "pop pop pop pop" where there should be vocals and, you know, not finishes
2) on the topic of hitsounds, WHY are the whistles substitute clap hitsounds? what is even the purpose of doing that, just make them actual whistles or some other sound besides a snare
3) why do your streams in the kiai follow vocals at some points in terms of spacing changes but then go to drums like 01:01:624 (1) - here during this entire stream?
4) what's wrong with your nc's like 00:51:724 (1,1) - this literally screams unpolished
5) 00:55:624 (1,2,3,4,5) - where is the emphasis on literally any of these patterns? because 00:57:124 (1,2,3,4) - you seem 00:58:024 (1,2,3,4,5) - to be 00:59:524 (2,3,4,5,6,7) - changing 01:07:624 (1,2) - emphasis 01:19:024 (1,2,3,4) - quite 01:20:524 (2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - a 01:22:324 (1,2,3,4,5) - lot
6) 01:19:924 (6,7,8,9) - this is not straight, unpolished, although this is more of a minor thing anyway
7) 01:22:624 (4) - nc every downbeat but then this isn't? what?
8) 01:28:624 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - this blatantly ignores rhythm for no reason, same thing with the next pattern, you could be following vocals or guitar here but it's just 1/4 spam???
9) 02:15:424 (1) - what the absolute fuck is this
10) 02:25:024 (1) - hitsounds randomly get 30% louder here??
11) 02:28:024 (2,3) - 02:29:224 (2,3) - these are the same distance but different gaps in rhythm, why?
12) 02:41:824 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14,15,16,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - don't you think this is a TINY bit overmapped considering the part before it?
12) 02:45:274 (4,1) - why? no, like, genuinely, why? how do you imagine this as a playable pattern? you're introducing a concept like this 3 minutes into the map, you are LITERALLY asking for people to break here
13) 02:51:424 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14,15,16) - i've legitimately seen more structured stream patterns from unranked mappers, like 02:51:724 (5) - why isn't the direction change on the white ticks? it shouldn't be on the blue ticks, that ignores rhythm entirely
14) 02:55:624 (1,2,3) - yeah, no, please actually stop doing this, your map is unplayable at this point
i seriously can't be bothered to look at this map more, it's not ready for ranking at all. the fact this even was considered as anything near a rankable map basically just proves the existence of a double-standard in the mapping community, as if it weren't proven already by monstrata being able to rank literally fucking anything
why did this get through with like 10 mods it so very clearly needs a LOT more than that?
at this point, its not about aesthetics, its about playability.
half of the map's streams are so inconsistent with itself, turning on note 16 or the downbeat on 1, with no patterns with switching or anything, purely random.
not to mention, this map is actually very unbalanced in many parts with sections that dont deserve 7 star space streams, and parts that do deserve those spikes in difficulty. if you wanted to try so hard to keep the tradition of dragonforce songs, you shouldve known that harder streams are supposed to be the highlight of every single solo section, which it isnt. it doesnt help that the song is completely mappable to streams, but also cannot be justified because there is very little difference in difficulty with the solo and the entire song
i believe this can be ranked someday, but not now especially with many questionable flaws included in the map. i feel like many things are overlooked and this map was only bubbled due to certain conditions of friendship and own personal tastes, rather than the actual quality of the map considered.
half of the map's streams are so inconsistent with itself, turning on note 16 or the downbeat on 1, with no patterns with switching or anything, purely random.
not to mention, this map is actually very unbalanced in many parts with sections that dont deserve 7 star space streams, and parts that do deserve those spikes in difficulty. if you wanted to try so hard to keep the tradition of dragonforce songs, you shouldve known that harder streams are supposed to be the highlight of every single solo section, which it isnt. it doesnt help that the song is completely mappable to streams, but also cannot be justified because there is very little difference in difficulty with the solo and the entire song
i believe this can be ranked someday, but not now especially with many questionable flaws included in the map. i feel like many things are overlooked and this map was only bubbled due to certain conditions of friendship and own personal tastes, rather than the actual quality of the map considered.
Topic Starter
fieryrage wrote:
playability > aesthetics
edit: ok there's actually things wrong with this map, wtf is wrong with the hitsounding and ncs and what are the streams even following lol
goes from vocals to guitars to drums and where is the consistency hello
this is a very general question. if u point out the specific object, i can answer u . and about sound effects. I talked with MrSergio about a very long text. I don't think there's a problem now
Topic Starter
You can put forward detailed suggestions. But I can also refute you. This map has been prepared for a year, each mapper's style is not the same. I have my own understanding and explanation for the map, I can't guarantee that you will agree with me, but I can promise to tell you what I think.idke wrote:
i believe this can be ranked someday, but not now especially with many questionable flaws included in the map.
01:55:474 (7,8,1) - isnt this just emphasizing 8 because u simply ran out of room in the editor due to poor stream placement management
02:51:649 (4,8,12,16) - vs 02:53:524 (13) - what is the reason for this difference is stream design?
03:42:274 (7) - red tick vs 03:42:949 (16) - blue tick in the same combo ??
i dont rly care how you want to prioritize rhythms, whether that be forcing direction change after the blue tick to emphasize a change in movement before the white tick / red, or if you want highlight it by making the red / white tick be the corner of the stream, but you need to be consistent with it and especially shouldnt be doing these changes in the same combo.
04:58:324 (7,8,1) - this flow makes me a sad boy
02:51:649 (4,8,12,16) - vs 02:53:524 (13) - what is the reason for this difference is stream design?
03:42:274 (7) - red tick vs 03:42:949 (16) - blue tick in the same combo ??
i dont rly care how you want to prioritize rhythms, whether that be forcing direction change after the blue tick to emphasize a change in movement before the white tick / red, or if you want highlight it by making the red / white tick be the corner of the stream, but you need to be consistent with it and especially shouldnt be doing these changes in the same combo.
04:58:324 (7,8,1) - this flow makes me a sad boy
Topic Starter
emmmm....Xexxar wrote:
01:55:474 (7,8,1) - isnt this just emphasizing 8 because u simply ran out of room in the editor due to poor stream placement management
01:55:024 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - 01:55:624 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - In fact, this is a set of accelerated sounds .about this sharp angle. I don't think there is any problem. because 01:54:949 (16,1,8,1) - Here, as the beginning of the acceleration, it is also an acute angle . but this looks, is not very molimen
02:51:649 (4,8,12,16) - vs 02:53:524 (13) - what is the reason for this difference is stream design? lol..I think this should be a classic part, not a mistake. This paragraph follows the guitar.Toy's Mod mentioned it here .and I like it
03:42:274 (7) - red tick vs 03:42:949 (16) - blue tick in the same combo ?? 03:42:274 (7) - watch the difference in guitar 03:42:949 (16,1) -The definition of the turning point of the tail and head is very vague .Because they're turning at the point of stress, In fact, I can explain that since 03:43:024 (1) is stress, it is connected to the acute part .and 03:42:274 (7) - I can explain that it's stressed, so I'm just pausing for a shot, and then connecting the acute angle. It doesn't make sense because they're all in the spinning part
i dont rly care how you want to prioritize rhythms, whether that be forcing direction change after the blue tick to emphasize a change in movement before the white tick / red, or if you want highlight it by making the red / white tick be the corner of the stream, but you need to be consistent with it and especially shouldnt be doing these changes in the same combo. But about turning, I'm not thinking about defining the stress as the center, or the head at the next sharp angle .In my opinion, they just need to do something about the turning point
04:58:324 (7,8,1) - this flow makes me a sad boyemmm.....If you want, i can really drop 04:58:474 (8) - a little .But now I don't feel necessary
didn't expect it to get qualified so fast after bubble, even less so as it is right now..
hitsounding
why are you using edm kick samples as hitnormal, that sounds so unfitting with this song
using some non-electronic kick samples would make much more sense
04:22:624 - using hihat hitnormals in parts like this also makes no sense with the song, there are drum and guitar 1/4 but basically adding a 1/4 hihat layer with hitsounds sounds horrible
similar for the intro/part until first kiai
and parts like 01:17:824 - etc.
not using cymbal samples (like default soft finish) in a song that uses them quite frequently also seems really lacking
streams
your stream emphasis is all over the place in many spots
just from looking at parts like 03:41:824 - 03:49:024 -
things like 03:42:274 (7,8) - are emphasized a lot for whatever reason but then 03:42:424 (9) - isn't all, even though it stands out much more in the song and your hitsounding
then 03:42:949 (16,1) - 03:43:549 (8,9) - 03:44:149 (16,1) - actually make sense, but for some reason you do nothing on 03:44:824 (9) - 03:45:349 (16,1) - etc
03:46:024 (9,11) - are hitsounded to somehow stand out, but your patterning doesn't make them stand out in any way
I mean these things could work if you actually were consistent with them, but emphasizing like half of the stronger beats and ignoring the other half makes no sense
00:08:749 (16,1) - this is suddenly using such an outstanding angle when you didn't do that on all the strong beats before is ??
these issues are mainly relating to when you use such inconsistent concept of (not)emphasizing stuff during the same stream, and how you decide to do it.
changing things up a bit for different parts etc. is alright though, especially for a long song with so many streams
more things
00:47:824 (6) - is putting lots of emphasis on the 1/2 ticks with hitsounding but mapped tapping rhythm doesn't fit, this would be much better as two 1/4 sliders
03:55:024 (1) - should probably be 1/4, the guitar is not that clear, but sounds better on 1/4 as the important guitar beats seem pretty close to 03:55:174 - and 03:55:249 - , together with clear drums on 03:55:174 -
04:19:924 (13,14,15,16) - this doesn't give enough hitsound feedback, 10% is way too low, fadeout you put here should just se smaller steps as the ones before are really hard to hear
the map uses some nice ideas, but it seems to really lack in how they were executed
hitsounding
why are you using edm kick samples as hitnormal, that sounds so unfitting with this song
using some non-electronic kick samples would make much more sense
04:22:624 - using hihat hitnormals in parts like this also makes no sense with the song, there are drum and guitar 1/4 but basically adding a 1/4 hihat layer with hitsounds sounds horrible
similar for the intro/part until first kiai
and parts like 01:17:824 - etc.
not using cymbal samples (like default soft finish) in a song that uses them quite frequently also seems really lacking
streams
your stream emphasis is all over the place in many spots
just from looking at parts like 03:41:824 - 03:49:024 -
things like 03:42:274 (7,8) - are emphasized a lot for whatever reason but then 03:42:424 (9) - isn't all, even though it stands out much more in the song and your hitsounding
then 03:42:949 (16,1) - 03:43:549 (8,9) - 03:44:149 (16,1) - actually make sense, but for some reason you do nothing on 03:44:824 (9) - 03:45:349 (16,1) - etc
03:46:024 (9,11) - are hitsounded to somehow stand out, but your patterning doesn't make them stand out in any way
I mean these things could work if you actually were consistent with them, but emphasizing like half of the stronger beats and ignoring the other half makes no sense
00:08:749 (16,1) - this is suddenly using such an outstanding angle when you didn't do that on all the strong beats before is ??
these issues are mainly relating to when you use such inconsistent concept of (not)emphasizing stuff during the same stream, and how you decide to do it.
changing things up a bit for different parts etc. is alright though, especially for a long song with so many streams
more things
00:47:824 (6) - is putting lots of emphasis on the 1/2 ticks with hitsounding but mapped tapping rhythm doesn't fit, this would be much better as two 1/4 sliders
03:55:024 (1) - should probably be 1/4, the guitar is not that clear, but sounds better on 1/4 as the important guitar beats seem pretty close to 03:55:174 - and 03:55:249 - , together with clear drums on 03:55:174 -
04:19:924 (13,14,15,16) - this doesn't give enough hitsound feedback, 10% is way too low, fadeout you put here should just se smaller steps as the ones before are really hard to hear
the map uses some nice ideas, but it seems to really lack in how they were executed
Topic Starter
thx.But I chose to keep my point of view .Lasse wrote:
didn't expect it to get qualified so fast after bubble, even less so as it is right now..
I called for you, but you didn't pay attention to me
hitsounding
why are you using edm kick samples as hitnormal, that sounds so unfitting with this song
using some non-electronic kick samples would make much more sense
04:22:624 - using hihat hitnormals in parts like this also makes no sense with the song, there are drum and guitar 1/4 but basically adding a 1/4 hihat layer with hitsounds sounds horrible
similar for the intro/part until first kiai
and parts like 01:17:824 - etc.
not using cymbal samples (like default soft finish) in a song that uses them quite frequently also seems really lacking
I don't quite follow you . Is this denying all sound effects...? I can't guarantee that everyone sounds good .at least these sound effects are regular .Hummm... I've changed my hitnormal once. At least it's not bad now. If you have a better hitnormal.please send it to me
streams
your stream emphasis is all over the place in many spots
just from looking at parts like 03:41:824 - 03:49:024 -
things like 03:42:274 (7,8) - are emphasized a lot for whatever reason but then 03:42:424 (9) - isn't all, even though it stands out much more in the song and your hitsounding
then 03:42:949 (16,1) - 03:43:549 (8,9) - 03:44:149 (16,1) - actually make sense, but for some reason you do nothing on 03:44:824 (9) - 03:45:349 (16,1) - etc
03:46:024 (9,11) - are hitsounded to somehow stand out, but your patterning doesn't make them stand out in any way
u overlooked an important piece of information .03:46:174 (11) - this .It's the last repetition 03:46:024 (9,11,13) - 03:44:824 (9,13) - 03:43:624 (9,13) - 03:42:424 (9,13) - In the next paragraph. a change has taken place 03:46:624 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14,15,16) -
So it's changed at the end of the paragraph
I mean these things could work if you actually were consistent with them, but emphasizing like half of the stronger beats and ignoring the other half makes no sense
That's a very good suggestion, but about this. I just cut the same paragraph very thin. So that it looks very random. maybe it makes you feel a little confused... Emmm... I'll try to get someone to understand my audio model .mrsergio and I discussed the problem
00:08:749 (16,1) - this is suddenly using such an outstanding angle when you didn't do that on all the strong beats before is ?? 00:08:749 (16,1) - 00:09:874 (15,1) - 00:11:149 (16,1) - 00:12:349 (16,1) - If I say it's a twist, I don't know if you can accept it .yes, I can start with an acute angle from the front, but I didn't do that. Is consistency necessary here? 00:06:124 (13,14,15,16,1,2,3,4,5) - 00:07:324 (13,14,15,16,1,2,3,4,5) - If you need, I can even explain these two as buffering because their angles are getting sharper and sharper .but it doesn't make sense, you know. If I keep the consistency here, it will become very single. streams lost his mind
these issues are mainly relating to when you use such inconsistent concept of (not)emphasizing stuff during the same stream, and how you decide to do it.
changing things up a bit for different parts etc. is alright though, especially for a long song with so many streams
perhaps the consistency for many people is a must. But this is not blindly believe the reason. Most of the time, what we see is quite different .
more things
00:47:824 (6) - is putting lots of emphasis on the 1/2 ticks with hitsounding but mapped tapping rhythm doesn't fit, this would be much better as two 1/4 sliders I don't deny your point of view, but I don't think it's bad right now .00:47:824 (6) - This can be seen as a pause .00:48:124 (1,2) - give the player a better response to this place .
03:55:024 (1) - should probably be 1/4, the guitar is not that clear, but sounds better on 1/4 as the important guitar beats seem pretty close to 03:55:174 - and 03:55:249 - , together with clear drums on 03:55:174 -
hummmm... This place is very blurry, because I really follow the guitar .I think if I use a 1/2 slider. Plus a note. here will become very strange. But if 1/3, it will not be so molimen .03:55:324 (1) - because the two sounds coincide here But I still have a choice, if you think so https://puu.sh/x8aMM/47defe6647.png
04:19:924 (13,14,15,16) - this doesn't give enough hitsound feedback, 10% is way too low, fadeout you put here should just se smaller steps as the ones before are really hard to hear
but this is a diminishing process.a gradual process of decline .04:19:924 (13,14,15,16) - they all added finish.and there's a rising sound in
the map uses some nice ideas, but it seems to really lack in how they were executed
I would also like to point out that the switch to 200 should be at 02:41:824 - . Currently there are double the necessary downbeats
Reset back to 100 at 03:22:624 -
And back to 200 at 03:37:024 -
Current timing playwise is fine but musical accuracy is ignored
(also for extra accuracy 01:17:824 - red line with 200 for "NC friendliness" or "metronome reset";
similarly 02:44:224 - here)
gratz tho, more DragonForce is always welcome 👀
Reset back to 100 at 03:22:624 -
And back to 200 at 03:37:024 -
Current timing playwise is fine but musical accuracy is ignored
(also for extra accuracy 01:17:824 - red line with 200 for "NC friendliness" or "metronome reset";
similarly 02:44:224 - here)
gratz tho, more DragonForce is always welcome 👀
Topic Starter
fieryrage wrote:
ok i have to make a separate post for this
- 1) why are your finish hitsounds overused in the kiais? it makes playing this song without your hitsounds feel like complete ass because all i can hear is just "pop pop pop pop" where there should be vocals and, you know, not finishes
no
2) on the topic of hitsounds, WHY are the whistles substitute clap hitsounds? what is even the purpose of doing that, just make them actual whistles or some other sound besides a snare
no
3) why do your streams in the kiai follow vocals at some points in terms of spacing changes but then go to drums like 01:01:624 (1) - here during this entire stream?
no
4) what's wrong with your nc's like 00:51:724 (1,1) - this literally screams unpolished 00:51:874 (1) - This NC is consistent for the number of streams .00:51:874 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14) - 00:53:224 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14) -
5) 00:55:624 (1,2,3,4,5) - where is the emphasis on literally any of these patterns? because 00:57:124 (1,2,3,4) - you seem 00:58:024 (1,2,3,4,5) - to be 00:59:524 (2,3,4,5,6,7) - changing 01:07:624 (1,2) - emphasis 01:19:024 (1,2,3,4) - quite 01:20:524 (2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - a 01:22:324 (1,2,3,4,5) - lot
no
6) 01:19:924 (6,7,8,9) - this is not straight, unpolished, although this is more of a minor thing anyway
no
7) 01:22:624 (4) - nc every downbeat but then this isn't? what? I can't understand why I need Nc here
8) 01:28:624 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - this blatantly ignores rhythm for no reason, same thing with the next pattern, you could be following vocals or guitar here but it's just 1/4 spam??? 01:27:424 (1,2,3,1,2,3,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - 01:29:824 (1,2,3,1,2,3,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - Really?
9) 02:15:424 (1) - what the absolute fuck is this no
10) 02:25:024 (1) - hitsounds randomly get 30% louder here?? no
11) 02:28:024 (2,3) - 02:29:224 (2,3) - these are the same distance but different gaps in rhythm, why? no
12) 02:41:824 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14,15,16,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - don't you think this is a TINY bit overmapped considering the part before it?
Is this really overmapped? There is enough intense guitar sound to support this paragraph
12) 02:45:274 (4,1) - why? no, like, genuinely, why? how do you imagine this as a playable pattern? you're introducing a concept like this 3 minutes into the map, you are LITERALLY asking for people to break here no
13) 02:51:424 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14,15,16) - i've legitimately seen more structured stream patterns from unranked mappers, like 02:51:724 (5) - why isn't the direction change on the white ticks? it shouldn't be on the blue ticks, that ignores rhythm entirely no
14) 02:55:624 (1,2,3) - yeah, no, please actually stop doing this, your map is unplayable at this point no
not to mention the fact that the 100 bpm sections aren't even warranted considering the only things mapped in those sections are spinners, it should be a consistent 200 bpm throughout the entire song no
i seriously can't be bothered to look at this map more, it's not ready for ranking at all. the fact this even was considered as anything near a rankable map basically just proves the existence of a double-standard in the mapping community, as if it weren't proven already by monstrata being able to rank literally fucking anything
Yes, you're too lazy to look at this map. So what are you writing so much for? Do you promote your sense of being? Or just because your high ranking can do this? This is not an mod.
why did this get through with like 10 mods it so very clearly needs a LOT more than that?
I don't think it's a mod. first. All the arguments are based on very subjective. I don't know why you're so angry .I know that even if I answer you, you won't agree with me. So I'll deny all your questions. If only for this very radical speech, the map would be DQ. so now the RANK system is not a joke? I'm not in your "mod". Look for respect .I have at least the least respect for other people's replies, but you don't have any .
If you correct your speech, I will reply to you in details
Topic Starter
When I respect you, please respect me as well.
Whether the mod was respectful or not, the points it brings up are entirely valid, and just responding "no" is not a valid defense - just a segue into more shitfighting.
Shouldn't this be DQ'd until 09kami provides some sort of valid defense against the vehemently negative reaction this has received from mappers - something he has utterly failed to do?
Shouldn't this be DQ'd until 09kami provides some sort of valid defense against the vehemently negative reaction this has received from mappers - something he has utterly failed to do?
If the mod is disrespectful then the mapper don't need to reply to it
hmm... the thing that bothers me the most about this map is the lack of contrast between intense and non-intense beats. the streams are so poorly (in my opinion) implemented that it's difficult to actually feel the song when playing.
for example, around 04:29:674 - you start mapping an endless deathstream using only spacing changes in order to somehow represent the song variations, which sounds good on paper, but the thing you're ignoring here is that after such high density, the patterns start to feel difficult regardless of the spacing shifts. there's a guideline in the ranking criteria that states: "Avoid following multiple layers of the song if it is unclear what rhythm is prioritizing. Players should be able to discern what part of the song is being followed." which doesn't seem to be followed here, as it's pretty difficult to recognize what your arrangements are mapped to.
other things i'd like to point:
most of your direction changes feel random in my opinion, your streams are extremely inconsistent on sections such as 03:41:824 - where things like 03:43:399 (6,7,8,9,10) - are tremendously difficult for no reason
your map contains a lot of snapping mistakes. i'm pretty sure that stuff like 03:01:924 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14,15,16) - 03:57:424 (1,2,3,4,5) - are 1/3.
you have many streams that follow nothing. 04:11:824 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9) - 02:45:424 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - just to mention a few
for example, around 04:29:674 - you start mapping an endless deathstream using only spacing changes in order to somehow represent the song variations, which sounds good on paper, but the thing you're ignoring here is that after such high density, the patterns start to feel difficult regardless of the spacing shifts. there's a guideline in the ranking criteria that states: "Avoid following multiple layers of the song if it is unclear what rhythm is prioritizing. Players should be able to discern what part of the song is being followed." which doesn't seem to be followed here, as it's pretty difficult to recognize what your arrangements are mapped to.
other things i'd like to point:
most of your direction changes feel random in my opinion, your streams are extremely inconsistent on sections such as 03:41:824 - where things like 03:43:399 (6,7,8,9,10) - are tremendously difficult for no reason
your map contains a lot of snapping mistakes. i'm pretty sure that stuff like 03:01:924 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14,15,16) - 03:57:424 (1,2,3,4,5) - are 1/3.
you have many streams that follow nothing. 04:11:824 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9) - 02:45:424 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - just to mention a few
the mapper should respond to all mods properly, respectful or not... ignoring them cuz he doesn't find them nice and coddling is stupid =D
ill keep that in mind thanks!!!Natsu wrote:
If the mod is disrespectful then the mapper don't need to reply to it
Wtf is this guy ranking one of the most beautiful Dragonforce's song that badly and just answer to actual points in mods by copying "no"? Where is QAT members??? Many people ( even BNs and previous BNs ) have many suggestions for the map to increase it's quality, isn't this the reason to DQ this?
I'm sure this would got DQ in 2 days or so, but if it wouldn't, I will "join party" and write mod as well
I'm sure this would got DQ in 2 days or so, but if it wouldn't, I will "join party" and write mod as well
Topic Starter
Mun wrote:
Whether the mod was respectful or not, the points it brings up are entirely valid, and just responding "no" is not a valid defense - just a segue into more shitfighting.
Shouldn't this be DQ'd until 09kami provides some sort of valid defense against the vehemently negative reaction this has received from mappers - something he has utterly failed to do?
MashaSG wrote:
Wtf is this guy ranking one of the most beautiful Dragonforce's song that badly and just answer to actual points in mods by copying "no"? Where is QAT members??? Many people ( even BNs and previous BNs ) have many suggestions for the map to increase it's quality, isn't this the reason to DQ this?
I'm sure this would got DQ in 2 days or so, but if it wouldn't, I will "join party" and write mod as well
Actually, I don't mind dq. if there's a better hitnormal. stubbornness doesn't make sense, but it takes better advice to break it . The map doesn't make everyone feel good. If it doesn't make you feel good, I'm sorry, but I hope you look at it in an objective way
"No" just means I've read this sentence .If you want, I can change it for "why?"" Why not? ".I wanted to say that .I should reply to a MOD. rather than a whole hostile article . all mapper have the obligation to reply to other people's mod. on their map, which is a kind of etiquette .but the difference is that what you reply is a "mod".
This is a very pointless discussion:
fieryrage wrote:
6) 01:19:924 (6,7,8,9) - this is not straight, unpolished, although this is more of a minor thing anyway
I don't think it's a kind of mod.. Is it straight? Is it important?
12) 02:45:274 (4,1) - why? no, like, genuinely, why? how do you imagine this as a playable pattern? you're introducing a concept like this 3 minutes into the map, you are LITERALLY asking for people to break here
I can't understand why I can't do it here
Pointless dispute doesn't improve this map. I made the same mistake. On another map .So I understand the need to respond kindly to other people's mod., but only if I respond to a polite person
Topic Starter
thxNatsu wrote:
If the mod is disrespectful then the mapper don't need to reply to it
so why do you halve bpm on spinners to then immediately double it again?
i mean if you halve it it shoulda stayed halved until like 02:41:824 -
but even that doesnt seem necessary
03:55:324 (1,2,3,4) - this is 1/3??
those hihats that you use as a hitnormal are so much louder than everything else >_<
taking this down to further discuss the things that were mentioned properly because a lot of the things that you just said "no" to were actually not hostile
i mean if you halve it it shoulda stayed halved until like 02:41:824 -
but even that doesnt seem necessary
03:55:324 (1,2,3,4) - this is 1/3??
those hihats that you use as a hitnormal are so much louder than everything else >_<
taking this down to further discuss the things that were mentioned properly because a lot of the things that you just said "no" to were actually not hostile
i dont understand much about hitsounding but while this is disqualified i have concerns with the emphesis on the streams.
in some parts you accentuate beats by placing them on the turn of the stream like:
04:09:424 (1) - , 04:33:424 (1) - , 04:38:224 (1) - , 04:48:124 (1) -
but in some parts you place the beat before the accentuated beat on the turn of the stream like:
03:43:024 (1) - , 03:43:624 (9) - 03:44:224 (1) - , 03:57:424 (1) - , etc.
these are just some examples the it is incosistent throughout the whole map.
also i dont know why this is accentuated 03:42:274 (7) - .
03:42:424 (9) - this should be instead.
maybe im misunderstanding your structure. im interested in an explanation.
in some parts you accentuate beats by placing them on the turn of the stream like:
04:09:424 (1) - , 04:33:424 (1) - , 04:38:224 (1) - , 04:48:124 (1) -
but in some parts you place the beat before the accentuated beat on the turn of the stream like:
03:43:024 (1) - , 03:43:624 (9) - 03:44:224 (1) - , 03:57:424 (1) - , etc.
these are just some examples the it is incosistent throughout the whole map.
also i dont know why this is accentuated 03:42:274 (7) - .
03:42:424 (9) - this should be instead.
maybe im misunderstanding your structure. im interested in an explanation.
The fuck is this post? Go and post your concerns if you got some, saying it in this way looks like you implying you can scare people with your mod lmaoMashaSG wrote:
Wtf is this guy ranking one of the most beautiful Dragonforce's song that badly and just answer to actual points in mods by copying "no"? Where is QAT members??? Many people ( even BNs and previous BNs ) have many suggestions for the map to increase it's quality, isn't this the reason to DQ this?
I'm sure this would got DQ in 2 days or so, but if it wouldn't, I will "join party" and write mod as well
I would want to point out a consistency issue
00:45:874 (11) - You forgot to add clap sound as you did for 01:36:874 (1) - or 04:29:674 (1) - or other parts where Marc says "zone", so it doesn't emphasize "zone".
00:45:874 (11) - You forgot to add clap sound as you did for 01:36:874 (1) - or 04:29:674 (1) - or other parts where Marc says "zone", so it doesn't emphasize "zone".
Topic Starter
Raiden wrote:
I would also like to point out that the switch to 200 should be at 02:41:824 - . Currently there are double the necessary downbeats
Reset back to 100 at 03:22:624 -
And back to 200 at 03:37:024 -
Current timing playwise is fine but musical accuracy is ignored
(also for extra accuracy 01:17:824 - red line with 200 for "NC friendliness" or "metronome reset";
similarly 02:44:224 - here)
gratz tho, more DragonForce is always welcome 👀
That's a very good suggestion. fix
Topic Starter
ok.With regard to normal-hitnormal., I came up with one of the easiest things to do. I cancelled all normal. Now there is only soft .
about Lasse and Xexxar mod . I made some changes
00:47:824 - nc
00:47:074 - Slide
00:58:174 - position
01:00:124 - nc
04:58:324 (7,8,1) - flow
03:55:024 - Slide
04:19:024 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1,2,3,4,5,1,2,3,1) -
about Lasse and Xexxar mod . I made some changes
00:47:824 - nc
00:47:074 - Slide
00:58:174 - position
01:00:124 - nc
04:58:324 (7,8,1) - flow
03:55:024 - Slide
04:19:024 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1,2,3,4,5,1,2,3,1) -
Topic Starter
It's a good discussion. I'd be happy to answer youKagetsu wrote:
hmm... the thing that bothers me the most about this map is the lack of contrast between intense and non-intense beats. the streams are so poorly (in my opinion) implemented that it's difficult to actually feel the song when playing.
for example, around 04:29:674 - you start mapping an endless deathstream using only spacing changes in order to somehow represent the song variations, which sounds good on paper, but the thing you're ignoring here is that after such high density, the patterns start to feel difficult regardless of the spacing shifts. there's a guideline in the ranking criteria that states: "Avoid following multiple layers of the song if it is unclear what rhythm is prioritizing. Players should be able to discern what part of the song is being followed." which doesn't seem to be followed here, as it's pretty difficult to recognize what your arrangements are mapped to.
04:29:674 (1) - Hummm... I've thought about it. This section follows Voice ., but there's a section in the middle that I need to filter through 04:30:424 - 04:30:649 - There are several similar ones that are rhythmic only .I've thought that if the spacing is lowered, maybe people will understand that .But what I want to say is that the rhythm here is stream too .If change here, I think all of them need to be changed. And this change is the whole map.I think I have a clear purpose. It's part of the voice .I've made a lot of concessions about the difficulty. I don't think it's difficult for everyone to play now .what you said is a very good point of view .thx
other things i'd like to point:
most of your direction changes feel random in my opinion, your streams are extremely inconsistent on sections such as 03:41:824 - where things like 03:43:399 (6,7,8,9,10) - are tremendously difficult for no reason
well. all don't seem to like it here. I changed my angle to a very simple angle
your map contains a lot of snapping mistakes. i'm pretty sure that stuff like 03:01:924 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14,15,16) - 03:57:424 (1,2,3,4,5) - are 1/3.
no. I noticed in many places that the guitar was 1/3., but I only followed a small part .because I made a mistake on another map(https://osu.ppy.sh/s/459901). It's because of 1/3 .I always remember this mod. when you frequently switch between 1/3 and 1/4. in a stream, the player is very out of tune. This is not a good idea .switching between 1/4 and 1/3 will be difficult for players to master
Avoid following multiple layers of the song if it is unclear what rhythm is prioritizing. Players should be able to discern what part of the song is being followed."
and I think the red line sounds(no hitsounds) good enough to support these using 1/4
you have many streams that follow nothing. 04:11:824 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9) - 02:45:424 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - just to mention a few
same
Topic Starter
hummm...I didn't answer him. Just because he didn't put himself in a moder position. In fact, he had a lot of radical arguments, didn't he? I have revised some places that I think need to be modified .but it's not just his taunts. It's just that I think these places might do better .I am talking very calmly about it now. I just want to be respected as a mapper .I don't want this map to be commented on as worthless. If it really isn't worth it, I shouldn't pursue it with ranked as its goal .If everyone complains about it on a map of Qualified, its value will be reduced .I believe that no one wants to see . on. except to belittle it. It's difficult to make a good map , but also very happy . when someone loves your map .A mod is someone who gives you good advice .It's a kind of respect. Respect for maps .so I respect every moder .Even if opinions can not be unified, I also want to explain my ideas as much as possible. There are reasons for refusing .But the premise of all this is that this is a mod that respects mapsNaotoshi wrote:
the mapper should respond to all mods properly, respectful or not... ignoring them cuz he doesn't find them nice and coddling is stupid =D
I said. He corrected the radical remarks. I'll discuss it with him calmly .But so far, he didn't respond, so I don't think it's a ‘’mod‘’
this is a really fun map !! good luck 09
Topic Starter
I don't follow a fixed pendulum. It makes the map very boring, but I fix a rhythm at each section .same to stream. in my opinion, a lot of stream can do it in different ways .but this can become inconsistent in some people's eyes .This is not a kind of targeted speech. I mean. Everyone has different opinions .But I'm used to looking at this from a variety of perspectives .That's what I learned when I followed HW .Creation, change .sdafsf wrote:
i dont understand much about hitsounding but while this is disqualified i have concerns with the emphesis on the streams.
in some parts you accentuate beats by placing them on the turn of the stream like:
04:09:424 (1) - , 04:33:424 (1) - , 04:38:224 (1) - , 04:48:124 (1) -
04:09:424 (1) - emmm... I think it's ok. because of the shortening of the spacing 04:09:424 (1,2,3,4) -
04:33:424 (1) - About here. I can understand the idea at the time. The turning point in the white of the drums. 04:33:124 (13,14,15,16) - But you reminded me. I should slow down here .like 04:37:924 (13,14,15,16) -
04:38:224 (1) - Emmm... I may know why you have any doubts about these places . 04:38:224 - This place is a drum sound and coincides with the long sound of the human voice .when sufficient conditions are supported, this rotation gives the player an accelerated sense of power .Also, the deceleration ahead is enough to allow the player to adapt to this segment .
04:48:124 (1) - same
About the angle of the corner, I don't think it's necessary to adjust the angle to the same, because the only thing you need is to let the player feel the effect. Most of the same angle doesn't make sense
but in some parts you place the beat before the accentuated beat on the turn of the stream like:
03:43:024 (1) - , 03:43:624 (9) - 03:44:224 (1) - , 03:57:424 (1) - , etc.
on.I changed it here in the mod above
these are just some examples the it is incosistent throughout the whole map.
also i dont know why this is accentuated 03:42:274 (7) - .
03:42:424 (9) - this should be instead.
same
maybe im misunderstanding your structure. im interested in an explanation.
zigizigiefe wrote:
I would want to point out a consistency issue
00:45:874 (11) - You forgot to add clap sound as you did for 01:36:874 (1) - or 04:29:674 (1) - or other parts where Marc says "zone", so it doesn't emphasize "zone".
on.sorry .It was a mistake. I corrected it > <
Topic Starter
Okorin wrote:
so why do you halve bpm on spinners to then immediately double it again?
i mean if you halve it it shoulda stayed halved until like 02:41:824 -
but even that doesnt seem necessary
There are some differences. I think I need to change the BPM to 100. BPM is now modified to be provided by Raiden
03:55:324 (1,2,3,4) - this is 1/3??
fix
those hihats that you use as a hitnormal are so much louder than everything else >_<
fix
taking this down to further discuss the things that were mentioned properly because a lot of the things that you just said "no" to were actually not hostile
I picked up some of the items that need to be modified and put it on the separate Post above
well.I think it needs modification. It's done
there is an Edit button on your post, please do not post each single reply in a new post
so your point is basically consistency is boring and uncreative?09kami wrote:
I don't follow a fixed pendulum. It makes the map very boring, but I fix a rhythm at each section .same to stream. in my opinion, a lot of stream can do it in different ways .but this can become inconsistent in some people's eyes .This is not a kind of targeted speech. I mean. Everyone has different opinions .But I'm used to looking at this from a variety of perspectives .That's what I learned when I followed HW .Creation, change .
i disagree with that in the first place but i dont think having the emphesis points in your stream off by one object makes your map any more interesting as it is.
consistency and creativity are not mutually exclusive
This is a concept that the East has struggled with for nearly a decade. Trying to explain to them that "just because you're getting bored as a mapper doesn't mean the player is getting bored" is a waste of time.sdafsf wrote:
consistency and creativity are not mutually exclusive
HW himself was extremely consistent. Like, wow, his maps are absurdly consistent and predictable. They're just crazy creative and interpretive. But misunderstanding creativity to mean "making up random stuff" is such a cute thing to do. It's literally what makes most newbie maps so adorably awful.09kami wrote:
But I'm used to looking at this from a variety of perspectives .That's what I learned when I followed HW .Creation, change .
But practice makes perfect.
why is the mp3 so bad lol
Topic Starter
sdafsf wrote:
so your point is basically consistency is boring and uncreative?09kami wrote:
I don't follow a fixed pendulum. It makes the map very boring, but I fix a rhythm at each section .same to stream. in my opinion, a lot of stream can do it in different ways .but this can become inconsistent in some people's eyes .This is not a kind of targeted speech. I mean. Everyone has different opinions .But I'm used to looking at this from a variety of perspectives .That's what I learned when I followed HW .Creation, change .
i disagree with that in the first place but i dont think having the emphesis points in your stream off by one object makes your map any more interesting as it is.
consistency and creativity are not mutually exclusive
no.I think we have some misunderstandings .I agree consistency and creativity are not mutually exclusive. but this is a broad concept . 04:33:124 (13,14,15,16) -Like this paragraph. You reminded me. I found the difference, So I modified it in order to keep consistency .But what I want to say is consistency. It doesn't just mean a place .emmm....I think it should be better to show you an example (https://osu.ppy.sh/b/1011818). If you would like to see this example, please note 00:02:176 (1) - - through 00:41:528 (4) - .It's a very boring tempo, because there's only one monotonic beat .If you stay consistent here, it can become very boring, so when you just pay attention to these two sounds, your mind becomes very narrow .and break through this cage. That's what I want to say .But it's a tough thing because it takes time and again to test the correctness of the tempo .balance . so consistency and creativity are not mutually exclusive. But blind consistency does limit your thinking. creativity
In fact, this is forced.She told me that if you want to break the limit from your point of view, a perfect map state must be guaranteed .I don't think I can do it yet. It's a great thingShiirn wrote:
HW himself was extremely consistent. Like, wow, his maps are absurdly consistent and predictable. They're just crazy creative and interpretive. But misunderstanding creativity to mean "making up random stuff" is such a cute thing to do. It's literally what makes most newbie maps so adorably awful.
But practice makes perfect.
emmmmm....Just compressedpkhg wrote:
why is the mp3 so bad lol
hummm...I'm more inclined to test players on the mod issue .I've got a lot of top players to test this map.So it's the problem of difficulties. I set them up as a standard
Don't use HW as an excuse if you're doing the exact opposite of what he/she does, hahahaha.
So this is mapping has become, people complaining about every single object that the mapper has placed, even going disrespecfull and expect to someone listen him...
^We reached this point ? Someone needs to call respect ?
09kami, even if your map ends on the graveyard its going to be a great one.
^We reached this point ? Someone needs to call respect ?
09kami, even if your map ends on the graveyard its going to be a great one.
Did i see someone mentioning "HW" here ?
Before this goes for qualified section could you look at these following points ? :3
No kd.
Before this goes for qualified section could you look at these following points ? :3
- I know people already mentioned it, but could you improve your map visually ? This does not really impact the gameplay a lot, but it doesn't make eyes bleeding. Small details can make your map a lot of times better visually, trust me.
Some streams are really weird-shaped and not really polished like
- 00:54:274 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10) - when you can make something better shaped :
- 03:41:824 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14,15,16) -
- 04:45:274 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12) - : you just have to move 04:46:024 (11) - a little on the left for a perfect shape. - This could be considered as a rhythm choice issue : 01:19:174 (2) - when you start the slider on the red tick (so this very important tick 01:19:324 (3) - is only followed and not played (and it should be played)) but you do the "right" thing 01:21:424 (1,2) - , so is there any reason ? Variating patterns is not really a good idea if you don't really emphasize the right notes, this current example is the perfect example of what you should not do if you want to vary patterns. If you want to keep variating, then keep emphasizing the "right" (by "right" i mean strongest/most important) notes. So you should make this tick 01:19:324 - clicked
- 02:45:499 (2) - There is definitely nothing audible on this blue tick, why do you follow it ? (even the guitar isn't snapped on it)
No kd.
do you really need to involve your ego? ewShiirn wrote:
Don't use HW as an excuse if you're doing the exact opposite of what he/she does,hahahaha.
09kami take my star as a sign of my appreciation for this masterpiece
Topic Starter
Neptune wrote:
09kami take my star as a sign of my appreciation for this masterpiece
thxI believe in "Mod" like this. It's easier for us to communicate .Cherry Blossom wrote:
Did i see someone mentioning "HW" here ?
Before this goes for qualified section could you look at these following points ? :3
- I know people already mentioned it, but could you improve your map visually ? This does not really impact the gameplay a lot, but it doesn't make eyes bleeding. Small details can make your map a lot of times better visually, trust me.
Some streams are really weird-shaped and not really polished like
- 00:54:274 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10) - when you can make something better shaped :
fix
- 03:41:824 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14,15,16) -
It's a strange suggestion. I don't think they have to be round .the ellipse is actually a spin. u mentioned the "polished". A detail is ignored. that's the AR. of this picture. when you're at test or playauto, you'll see. they don't look like edit .It's just a turn .but the difference between an ellipse and a circle is that the speed of rotation is different. what mapper and player see is different .that's why I've been looking for someone to test the map. Some places I need to look at them from their perspective .But on this question, I choose to respect your opinion, because I always think you are a great mapper. So I reworked the place. I modified some ellipses for the circle .so I reworked the place
- 04:45:274 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12) - : you just have to move 04:46:024 (11) - a little on the left for a perfect shape.
emmm.....According to your idea, I just need to change the position of 04:44:824 (1,2) - . 04:45:274 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12) - Some subtle spins- This could be considered as a rhythm choice issue : 01:19:174 (2) - when you start the slider on the red tick (so this very important tick 01:19:324 (3) - is only followed and not played (and it should be played)) but you do the "right" thing 01:21:424 (1,2) - , so is there any reason ? Variating patterns is not really a good idea if you don't really emphasize the right notes, this current example is the perfect example of what you should not do if you want to vary patterns. If you want to keep variating, then keep emphasizing the "right" (by "right" i mean strongest/most important) notes. So you should make this tick 01:19:324 - clicked
fix.I agree with that, but it's very difficult to grasp the most important sound when it comes to the switch between voice and accompaniment .Some people will say, "why do you follow the two? It's confusing! "but balance the vocals and the accompaniment to complete a map. You know, when it's done, it'll be very cool. remove not adapted things .complete this mapping. that's what I'm doing- 02:45:499 (2) - There is definitely nothing audible on this blue tick, why do you follow it ? (even the guitar isn't snapped on it)
02:45:499 - There is an extension of the guitar here .02:45:424 - 02:45:949 - In fact, I believe it is a complete guitar sound because it has no sense of pause .02:46:024 (1) - But starting here, the change can be clearly distinguished .02:45:424 (1) - I'll change it here to 1/4 slider.maybe it will make you accept it .
No kd.
small thing
04:17:824 (1,1) - how about end those sliders on red ticks ( 04:18:274 and 04:18:874 .) , because it more feet the music. And make them more wiggly?
0w^
04:17:824 (1,1) - how about end those sliders on red ticks ( 04:18:274 and 04:18:874 .) , because it more feet the music. And make them more wiggly?
0w^
Topic Starter
xDololow wrote:
small thing
04:17:824 (1,1) - how about end those sliders on red ticks ( 04:18:274 and 04:18:874 .) , because it more feet the music. And make them more wiggly?
hummm...fix to 04:18:274 - because there's a change in the guitar sounds here .but 04:18:874 - not added. If choose the weaker drums here .will conflict with 04:18:424 (1) .
0w^
Please note that a lot of the issues that people have with this map are not due to you making "mistakes while mapping".
It's because the mapping quality is extremely low.
You are not paying attention to the music's level of intensity or where the music gets stronger or weaker, nor are you using the vocals at all.
As an example, 00:58:324 (3,4,5,1,2,3,4,5,6,1) - This is an pattern. It's not a bad one, nor is it a good one. But it uses the previous notes and goes under them. But the music doesn't do anything to suggest that. The music does not repeat in any way. This isn't a matter of "creativity" or "my style", it's just straight up ignoring the music in favor of putting a "pattern you think looks cool". This is your entire map.
Your entire map is "patterns you think look cool", not "patterns which fit the musical structure".
You have made a map with no soul. It is just taking music and turning it into a one-dimensional set of clicks with plain, simple patterns representing it.
That's rankable. But it's a horrible way to map. And accepting it just lowers the quality of mapping as a whole. And it's why monstrata's cookie map is an insult to everyone who has any respect for music or this game. Because it's rankable, but intentionally lacking anything resembling mapping.
That said, your map is "rankable", but if you're satisfied with ranking but being bad, that's your choice. You'll just end up being another soulfear - a forgotten relic only remembered by a few for "how badly they mapped for how hard they tried".
It's because the mapping quality is extremely low.
You are not paying attention to the music's level of intensity or where the music gets stronger or weaker, nor are you using the vocals at all.
As an example, 00:58:324 (3,4,5,1,2,3,4,5,6,1) - This is an pattern. It's not a bad one, nor is it a good one. But it uses the previous notes and goes under them. But the music doesn't do anything to suggest that. The music does not repeat in any way. This isn't a matter of "creativity" or "my style", it's just straight up ignoring the music in favor of putting a "pattern you think looks cool". This is your entire map.
Your entire map is "patterns you think look cool", not "patterns which fit the musical structure".
You have made a map with no soul. It is just taking music and turning it into a one-dimensional set of clicks with plain, simple patterns representing it.
That's rankable. But it's a horrible way to map. And accepting it just lowers the quality of mapping as a whole. And it's why monstrata's cookie map is an insult to everyone who has any respect for music or this game. Because it's rankable, but intentionally lacking anything resembling mapping.
That said, your map is "rankable", but if you're satisfied with ranking but being bad, that's your choice. You'll just end up being another soulfear - a forgotten relic only remembered by a few for "how badly they mapped for how hard they tried".
Discourse is not disrespect, and if anyone can't handle this level of discourse, they probably shouldn't be putting their own work out into a community that is centered almost entirely around the judging of said work. I'd even go so far as to say that avoiding providing any sort of thoughtful criticism in a map that you see needs work is far more disrespectful, and even patronizing. At the end of the day, the goal isn't to be disrespectful to 09kami, it's to make the map better before it's brought into the ranked section, a section of "finalized works."MaestroSplinter wrote:
So this is mapping has become, people complaining about every single object that the mapper has placed, even going disrespecfull and expect to someone listen him...
^We reached this point ? Someone needs to call respect ?
destruction zone
01:16:774 (5) - I opened the map and saw this - you should add a hitwhistle here! The sound in the song is almost entirely consistent with 01:16:174 (1,2,3,4) - but the lack of a hitsound + the difference in spacing makes it look and feel more like an entirely different beat.
As for consistency, the map is highly inconsistent, but I haven't seen any real reason provided for it. For example, look at the 2 measures starting at 01:17:824 - vs the 2 measures starting immediately after them at 01:20:224 - the rhythm changes completely in the middle of it. Major rhythmic inconsistencies like these are evident throughout the map.
Beyond that, what's with your streams? For example, check out 01:36:124 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10) - it's quite obviously hand-placed, but the curve is extremely rough and abrasive looking. Do you have a reason not to use more consistent curves in your streams?
After that, why emphasize 01:36:874 (1) - instead of 01:37:024 (3) - ? Sure, the word "zone" starts at 01:36:874 (1) - but it's obvious to anyone listening that the most intensely emphasized note here is at 01:37:024 (3) - .
Such emphasis and construction issues are present throughout the map.
As for consistency, the map is highly inconsistent, but I haven't seen any real reason provided for it. For example, look at the 2 measures starting at 01:17:824 - vs the 2 measures starting immediately after them at 01:20:224 - the rhythm changes completely in the middle of it. Major rhythmic inconsistencies like these are evident throughout the map.
Beyond that, what's with your streams? For example, check out 01:36:124 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10) - it's quite obviously hand-placed, but the curve is extremely rough and abrasive looking. Do you have a reason not to use more consistent curves in your streams?
After that, why emphasize 01:36:874 (1) - instead of 01:37:024 (3) - ? Sure, the word "zone" starts at 01:36:874 (1) - but it's obvious to anyone listening that the most intensely emphasized note here is at 01:37:024 (3) - .
Such emphasis and construction issues are present throughout the map.
Topic Starter
It's a very subjective view. you're just looking at these problems in your own eyes .u impose your opinions on others. I don't think that's reasonable. Because you're talking about it. It's just a mapping approach . It's not the only one. It's not rigidMun wrote:
Discourse is not disrespect, and if anyone can't handle this level of discourse, they probably shouldn't be putting their own work out into a community that is centered almost entirely around the judging of said work. I'd even go so far as to say that avoiding providing any sort of thoughtful criticism in a map that you see needs work is far more disrespectful, and even patronizing. At the end of the day, the goal isn't to be disrespectful to 09kami, it's to make the map better before it's brought into the ranked section, a section of "finalized works."MaestroSplinter wrote:
So this is mapping has become, people complaining about every single object that the mapper has placed, even going disrespecfull and expect to someone listen him...
^We reached this point ? Someone needs to call respect ?
But you need to know about "mod". It's about map communication .the premise of communication is that it can be discussed with mapper .when language is offensive, this is no respect. would u casually greet a stranger with offensive words on the street? at least I won't . for instance.when your map is Qualified, I'll use Chinese to "mod"(and based on the fact that I understand the need to use English.) .but my "mod" is based on maps .what would you think? think this is a mod or a provocation? at least for fieryrage's speech. I think it's the same effect . u can see my response to other people. I believe everyone has answered them in detail .that's what I call a kind of respect .At least I think that "mod" must be based on communication, and that exchanges are based on the most basic equal dialogue
edit : If you don't respect me, why do I need my map to respect what you call "mod"?" yes, you can say. You don't need to respect "mod". You just need to change it .So why should I change it? Can you make sure that what you mentioned is correct? You answered, "yes, because I found these mistakes! " Since I don't respect your mod, why should I take notice of your findings? I just want to say "no". mapper is not a machine. It's not when you type an error that you change it .the path to a map entering ranked is through mapper. at least I won't accept rude "mod". about maps. In my eyes, it's a formal occasion .destruction zone01:16:774 (5) - I opened the map and saw this - you should add a hitwhistle here! The sound in the song is almost entirely consistent with 01:16:174 (1,2,3,4) - but the lack of a hitsound + the difference in spacing makes it look and feel more like an entirely different beat. fix
As for consistency, the map is highly inconsistent, but I haven't seen any real reason provided for it. For example, look at the 2 measures starting at 01:17:824 - vs the 2 measures starting immediately after them at 01:20:224 - the rhythm changes completely in the middle of it. Major rhythmic inconsistencies like these are evident throughout the map.
About consistency .I don't even have to open the map to know what you're trying to say...consistency is not a necessary thing. It's just a condition. a mapping. This map varies in two ways based on voice and accompaniment .when you think you need to maintain a high degree of consistency, it's different from this map, mapping's policy .but I don't mean there's no need for consistency .consistency is not a requirement. There is no need for a whole map to maintain a consistency. Some details, etc. I'll read the map tomorrow and explain
edit : It looks just like I guess .
Beyond that, what's with your streams? For example, check out 01:36:124 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10) - it's quite obviously hand-placed, but the curve is extremely rough and abrasive looking. Do you have a reason not to use more consistent curves in your streams?
all streams just hand-placed.Is there any doubt about that? Do you have a reason not to use more consistent curves in your streams
So why more consistent? what you mean is the need for bigger flow., simpler streams ?no. Streams does not have to meet all the needs of everyone .It's just because you think .In fact, does it make sense to adjust it to a perfect arc? This is just looking pretty pretty in edit. For this AR., some ugly angles can have a more intuitive effect on test .
After that, why emphasize 01:36:874 (1) - instead of 01:37:024 (3) - ? Sure, the word "zone" starts at 01:36:874 (1) - but it's obvious to anyone listening that the most intensely emphasized note here is at 01:37:024 (3) - .
So I think it's too much trouble to explain these things. I've explained the same thing in front of post .according to your idea, should even delete 01:36:949 (2) -.01:37:024 (3) - As a place to start .but isn't that the way you choose it? but it's obvious to anyone listening that the most intensely emphasized note here is at 01:37:024 (3) - . are you sure it's anyone? I don't agree with that .I think it's necessary to follow "ZONE".
Such emphasis and construction issues are present throughout the map.
Mun wrote:
Discourse is not disrespect, and if anyone can't handle this level of discourse, they probably shouldn't be putting their own work out into a community that is centered almost entirely around the judging of said work. I'd even go so far as to say that avoiding providing any sort of thoughtful criticism in a map that you see needs work is far more disrespectful, and even patronizing. At the end of the day, the goal isn't to be disrespectful to 09kami, it's to make the map better before it's brought into the ranked section, a section of "finalized works."MaestroSplinter wrote:
So this is mapping has become, people complaining about every single object that the mapper has placed, even going disrespecfull and expect to someone listen him...
^We reached this point ? Someone needs to call respect ?destruction zone01:16:774 (5) - I opened the map and saw this - you should add a hitwhistle here! The sound in the song is almost entirely consistent with 01:16:174 (1,2,3,4) - but the lack of a hitsound + the difference in spacing makes it look and feel more like an entirely different beat.
As for consistency, the map is highly inconsistent, but I haven't seen any real reason provided for it. For example, look at the 2 measures starting at 01:17:824 - vs the 2 measures starting immediately after them at 01:20:224 - the rhythm changes completely in the middle of it. Major rhythmic inconsistencies like these are evident throughout the map.
Beyond that, what's with your streams? For example, check out 01:36:124 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10) - it's quite obviously hand-placed, but the curve is extremely rough and abrasive looking. Do you have a reason not to use more consistent curves in your streams?
After that, why emphasize 01:36:874 (1) - instead of 01:37:024 (3) - ? Sure, the word "zone" starts at 01:36:874 (1) - but it's obvious to anyone listening that the most intensely emphasized note here is at 01:37:024 (3) - .
Such emphasis and construction issues are present throughout the map.
ehm, sure. btw not making this a stupid debate how should someone take mod.. Have a good day
All I'm reading here is a VERY subjective, rude, disrespectful and unjustified rant (or egotrip, if you will).Shiirn wrote:
Please note that a lot of the issues that people have with this map are not due to you making "mistakes while mapping".
It's because the mapping quality is extremely low.
You are not paying attention to the music's level of intensity or where the music gets stronger or weaker, nor are you using the vocals at all.
As an example, 00:58:324 (3,4,5,1,2,3,4,5,6,1) - This is an pattern. It's not a bad one, nor is it a good one. But it uses the previous notes and goes under them. But the music doesn't do anything to suggest that. The music does not repeat in any way. This isn't a matter of "creativity" or "my style", it's just straight up ignoring the music in favor of putting a "pattern you think looks cool". This is your entire map.
Your entire map is "patterns you think look cool", not "patterns which fit the musical structure".
You have made a map with no soul. It is just taking music and turning it into a one-dimensional set of clicks with plain, simple patterns representing it.
That's rankable. But it's a horrible way to map. And accepting it just lowers the quality of mapping as a whole. And it's why monstrata's cookie map is an insult to everyone who has any respect for music or this game. Because it's rankable, but intentionally lacking anything resembling mapping.
That said, your map is "rankable", but if you're satisfied with ranking but being bad, that's your choice. You'll just end up being another soulfear - a forgotten relic only remembered by a few for "how badly they mapped for how hard they tried".
Why are you being this disrespectful towards 09kami anyway? Could it be your ignorance? I highly doubt it's the other way around.
You might have some mapping experience, but that doesn't give you the right to point out the above to anyone really. You personally have issues with the map while most of us here don't at all. You're personally attacking a great mapper here and even predicting his future reputation as a mapper because of what YOU think? You even confirm this is rankable, so the rest of your destructive speech was unneccesary and looks like an attempt to -1 09kami while +1ing yourself.
If you don't have anything nice to say, please refrain from commenting at all. The world doesn't revolve around you.
If you want a community-based content creation system, you're going to have to deal with criticism, often harsh. Because very few people actually get good at something by getting nothing but praise. "Rankable" should be equated with "Mediocre" - because that's what ranking standards are meant to be, a minimum quality threshold for maps. Aiming to be mediocre, being satisfied with being mediocre, is something that needs to be pointed out in a "are you SURE you really want to be boring?" question.
If you want a game where everyone gets praised for doing their best, go play Hello Kitty World.
If you want a game where everyone gets praised for doing their best, go play Hello Kitty World.
Topic Starter
emmm....I don't think it's disrespectful. At least not from your language. It's not very rude .I looked at that post. .But I was so tired last night(When I finished the last post, it was already 5 in the morning ), so I didn't reply to you .I'll explain them tonight. At least I don't think the quality of this map is so badShiirn wrote:
If you want a community-based content creation system, you're going to have to deal with criticism, often harsh. Because very few people actually get good at something by getting nothing but praise. "Rankable" should be equated with "Mediocre" - because that's what ranking standards are meant to be, a minimum quality threshold for maps. Aiming to be mediocre, being satisfied with being mediocre, is something that needs to be pointed out in a "are you SURE you really want to be boring?" question.
If you want a game where everyone gets praised for doing their best, go play Hello Kitty World.
It's not bad like "why are you even mapping"?
It's just so plain and simple and could be so much better, but you'd need to basically remap over and over to make it better. People expect better from DragonForce maps.
It's just so plain and simple and could be so much better, but you'd need to basically remap over and over to make it better. People expect better from DragonForce maps.
Hello again, i can review this map if you need more feedbacks (the points i mentioned previously are just more or less "objective").
Note that's it's my own viewpoint, so take what is said below, very subjective.
I can agree that this map lacks of quality overall, but it is not really a "very bad quality map". This map lacks of structure (but this is a stream map so it's a little ok) but a majority of what is not stream is not really very well structured. I and people don't really expect perfect things, but at least try to make things a little tidied up and very carefully done with a real intention of making things structured. If i take your references like HW, her maps (despite they are "special" compared to others), there is a consistent structure behind them. I know we should not really compare maps because each style is different etc. but there is a lot of things in common in mapping. By making things structured and making things emphasized well, the quality of your map will be increased, that's my viewpoint.
Well, i can point out some things that look a little "messy" to me like :
I don't really ask you to remap some parts (concerning the placement), but it would be nice to make things more tidied up at least. If i take another chinese reference, popner, "Sometimes remapping can be more useful than hundreds of moddings.".
Now that you made your stream shapes better, you should make your patterns more tidy, and then your map will be really nice.
No kd because you already kd my previous post (when i said no kd on it lol)
Note that's it's my own viewpoint, so take what is said below, very subjective.
I can agree that this map lacks of quality overall, but it is not really a "very bad quality map". This map lacks of structure (but this is a stream map so it's a little ok) but a majority of what is not stream is not really very well structured. I and people don't really expect perfect things, but at least try to make things a little tidied up and very carefully done with a real intention of making things structured. If i take your references like HW, her maps (despite they are "special" compared to others), there is a consistent structure behind them. I know we should not really compare maps because each style is different etc. but there is a lot of things in common in mapping. By making things structured and making things emphasized well, the quality of your map will be increased, that's my viewpoint.
Well, i can point out some things that look a little "messy" to me like :
- 00:23:224 (1,2) - Here i don't really understand why you stack these objects when the whole section has spaced objects because if you want to properly emphasize vocals, then these objects should be distant. You stacked 00:23:974 (4,5) - to follow the song and not vocals which is more suitable than stacking 00:23:224 (1,2) - to follow vocals imo. If you plan to follow vocals then don't stack objects, it would give a better impression.
- 00:26:824 (1,2,3,4,1,2) - The strongest note here 00:27:424 (1) - is just played with a low distance between 00:27:274 (4,1) - . So it is not really emphasized. And it looks like you prefered to emphasize vocals instead with the highest distance between 00:27:424 (1,2,3) - so it can be possible and it works. Concerning visual and structure, the way they are placed just looks like they are "thrown" away with a random distance between them, at least if you make the distance consistent between 00:26:824 (1,2,3) - , between 00:27:124 (3,4,1) - , it would be better.
- 00:29:224 (1,2,3,4) - the same idea as ^, it also looks like they are thrown away.
- 00:40:024 (1,2,3,4) - ^
- 00:56:224 (1,2,3) - ^ , when you add a lower distance between 00:56:374 (2,3) - compared to the distance between 00:56:224 (1,2) - when the strongest note to emphasize is 00:56:524 (3) - so there should be more distance 00:56:374 (2,3) - or an equal distance as 00:56:224 (1,2) - .
- 04:41:674 (3,4,5,6) - ^
- 04:51:274 (5,1) - The distance between them should be higher or equal to 04:50:974 (4,5) - , because the strongest note is on 04:51:424 (1) - which should be emphasized better. The low distance doesn't really do it.
I don't really ask you to remap some parts (concerning the placement), but it would be nice to make things more tidied up at least. If i take another chinese reference, popner, "Sometimes remapping can be more useful than hundreds of moddings.".
Now that you made your stream shapes better, you should make your patterns more tidy, and then your map will be really nice.
No kd because you already kd my previous post (when i said no kd on it lol)
Topic Starter
Shiirn wrote:
Please note that a lot of the issues that people have with this map are not due to you making "mistakes while mapping".
It's because the mapping quality is extremely low.
You are not paying attention to the music's level of intensity or where the music gets stronger or weaker, nor are you using the vocals at all.
This is a strange point of view .I even suspected that I had misunderstood this sentence .If follow this point of view. So this map, so the object just follows the sound of my brain? well, mine brain power is really too high .I think if I don't follow these .can't even finish the map
As an example, 00:58:324 (3,4,5,1,2,3,4,5,6,1) - This is an pattern. It's not a bad one, nor is it a good one. But it uses the previous notes and goes under them. But the music doesn't do anything to suggest that. The music does not repeat in any way. This isn't a matter of "creativity" or "my style", it's just straight up ignoring the music in favor of putting a "pattern you think looks cool". This is your entire map.
It's also a weird argument .But the music doesn't do anything to suggest that. The music does not repeat in any way. It's just a choice of location! yes. I can definitely stagger it. even change it directly. But what's the point? But the music doesn't do anything to suggest that. ?I don't think this paragraph tells you anything. I don't think your understanding is music. It's about you. It's about thinking. about mapping. "memetics" If you understand the word, you will see what I am trying to say. In your mind, you think everyone does that, but it's a prejudiced view. u rule out some of the things that you think are wrong . And it's a long process. When you keep a point of view for a long time, you think that's the only thing that's right .when you maintain this view, your thinking has been fixed, so I'm breaking this mindset . these are just some opinions. For what you mentioned. and about maps .there's a simple reason here, but you didn't notice it .00:58:324 (3,4,5,3,4,5,6) - delete these .bring your headset and slow down to 25%.Listen to the drum. 00:59:149 - if you say there's no sound here, I can tell you . It's only because of the different tones of 00:58:474 (5,5) - I think 00:59:149 (6) - need to fill that difference. Of course. If you insist on.00:59:074 (5) - can modify the slider for 1/4. Include other places .But for the players, I believe these places are relative to the 1/4 slider . A continuous stream is no sense of violation. This is not a view I have imagined .It's what I found when the player tested the map .00:58:474 (5,5) - Some people say that this is just a drum. Why do you need to distinguish them? Just because of the scale? yes. just because of the scale. It's a kind of detail .There's another reason .00:59:074 (5,6,1) - Here it is. It's a part of the voice. It's coincident with the drum . So that's what I need to explain to you about innovation .but when you look at the problem in a single angle, it's easy to ignore something else. When people collect these things before your eyes, isn't that an innovation?
Your entire map is "patterns you think look cool", not "patterns which fit the musical structure".
You have made a map with no soul. It is just taking music and turning it into a one-dimensional set of clicks with plain, simple patterns representing it.
The soul of this map. I think it's at least stronger than you see . take an inappropriate example .please look at someone else's Extraction Zone. and look at my map .I'm sure you have a lot of opinions about the difficulty, but I want you to see the middle section 02:05:824 (1) - 02:41:374 (6) - this is my favorite part .About"patterns which fit the musical structure".this is a veryveryveryveryveryvery subjective view . music will not tell you any design .tell you about it. It's the player. so about not "patterns which fit the musical structure".I think it should be amended as "patterns which fit the player".
.So when you choose "patterns which fit the player".u will consider a question. Is this suitable for most player? or "I seem to think it's flow ".It's a complicated problem. I don't want to talk about it .But I'd like to mention two points
1 In the case of high AR, speed issues need to be taken into consideration .As I mentioned before, the relation between the cround and the ellipse. They are in the case of high AR. Just a few deviations from the radian. These slight deviations are even invisible .but you would say that bigger round make players feel more flow .That's the right point. When you change an ellipse to a bigger cround, it really reduces the difficulty of the player. Also, increase flow. But I would like to make second points. In fact, it is not my point .It's hers .
2 one can play a map well, but you can't. then you're just too weak. but what I need to add is that we need a limit .I can add difficulty in many places. Even in one version, the difficulty is raised to 8.25 stars .of course. I changed it later. I don't think it's necessary .back to this topic. I don't think stream needs to be in full compliance with everyone's flow .of course, I can do that, too. if I want to complete this kind of map as a pp map .You can look at 1 toy and Xilver's mod. I almost completely took their advice because I knew what they were thinking. I watched them play with this map .that's why I limit the limit. They're the standard .but right now, almost everyone wants me to follow them on flow .And that's why. or the fuse .I think there's no need to explain any more
That's rankable. But it's a horrible way to map. And accepting it just lowers the quality of mapping as a whole. And it's why monstrata's cookie map is an insult to everyone who has any respect for music or this game. Because it's rankable, but intentionally lacking anything resembling mapping.
And accepting it just lowers the quality of mapping as a whole. Can I understand that only pp map can belong to the correct mapping? In fact, according to the idea you mentioned, there is only a fixed rhythm. fixied the ds. fixied the flow. fixed pattern is the correct way to mapping .
That said, your map is "rankable", but if you're satisfied with ranking but being bad, that's your choice. You'll just end up being another soulfear - a forgotten relic only remembered by a few for "how badly they mapped for how hard they tried".
If there's no malicious vote, let me try. At least I'm willing to go on the road map. Look for different ways with ppmapping .(and at least all of my rank maps have done this before
This is a very long response. If you have the patience to read it .I don't think that will make you agree with me, but it will make you understand what I think
"why are you even mapping" on the question of "MOD", it does lead to the emergence of this sentence .Because maps are made by individuals,.MOD is just for advice and advice from others. When you take all the advice, it's really even. But there will be a problem at the same time. Is this map the first one you've completed? Everyone takes a little. Then add a little .Some people change it in the name of being better .But you won't notice it because you've changed everything .This kind of map won't be a good map when you finish it. Trust me . Actually, when your experience builds up to a certain extent,.mod becomes extra content .I don't mean I can improve a map without Mod, But sometimes it's more efficient for.Mapper to check its maps than Mod itself, and the perfect things are better. This is a special consistency .on this premise .random modifications will only destroy the structure of the map without lifting the map .Shiirn wrote:
It's not bad like "why are you even mapping"?
It's just so plain and simple and could be so much better, but you'd need to basically remap over and over to make it better. People expect better from DragonForce maps.
Topic Starter
thx for mod. Some of the time. I hope to retain some of the original things. Because it is a habit for me. When I finished a map. My first impression will retain some great things. And after the modification. only perfect them. And not a lot of change them. I have passed that stage that requires a lot of changes. At least this is my experience. Jumps about random distances. At least I don't think they're random. I fixed this shape on another mapCherry Blossom wrote:
Hello again, i can review this map if you need more feedbacks (the points i mentioned previously are just more or less "objective").
Note that's it's my own viewpoint, so take what is said below, very subjective.
I can agree that this map lacks of quality overall, but it is not really a "very bad quality map". This map lacks of structure (but this is a stream map so it's a little ok) but a majority of what is not stream is not really very well structured. I and people don't really expect perfect things, but at least try to make things a little tidied up and very carefully done with a real intention of making things structured. If i take your references like HW, her maps (despite they are "special" compared to others), there is a consistent structure behind them. I know we should not really compare maps because each style is different etc. but there is a lot of things in common in mapping. By making things structured and making things emphasized well, the quality of your map will be increased, that's my viewpoint.
first. thank for your viewpoint.
But some ideas about stream. I'm different from HW .If you open Genryuu Kaiko. 04:05:781 - Notice the changes in these stream .they don't have much in common. or radians .04:08:555 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12) - like this. I'm sure my map has a similar place before, but everyone is proposing a point of view, consistency .04:09:942 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14,15,16,1,2,3,4) - And this. I don't think these are for flow., or even you can say. they're not an arc. But are they important? flow does make players feel smoother, but if all stream uses a flow., they can create a sense of aesthetic fatigue . I saw almost half of them letting me modify the shape of the stream . I can't guarantee it's the right change. Maybe I'll regret it later .Because you have to understand the shape, the stream of the flow. The size of the rotation. everything is a way. Maybe we can change that and make it easier for the players .but for players, that might not be a good thing .Maybe someone plays this map just for pp. In fact, these changes have indeed been done. But are you sure we need to make this compromise for this part of the player? In my opinion, it doesn't make any difference to completing a map for pp. I didn't blame anything, but... why don't we decorate something? For example, there are some difficult places. Isn't it a pleasure? Some people would say, "you don't make these changes. This map is already difficult. Why don't you lower it?!" In fact, this subtle change .It's an attitude .I don't want to compromise with everyone. I don't want to compromise with ppmapping .I just want players play maps for map instead of playing maps for pp
Well, i can point out some things that look a little "messy" to me like :Well it would be better if you tidy up some patterns concerning the distance between objects. Randomly using distance to emphasize wrongly the strongest notes doesn't really give quality to your map. The other way round, using proper emphasis makes your map very good, comfortable and pleasant to play.
- 00:23:224 (1,2) - Here i don't really understand why you stack these objects when the whole section has spaced objects because if you want to properly emphasize vocals, then these objects should be distant. You stacked 00:23:974 (4,5) - to follow the song and not vocals which is more suitable than stacking 00:23:224 (1,2) - to follow vocals imo. If you plan to follow vocals then don't stack objects, it would give a better impression.
00:23:374 (2,3,4) - I thought what they meant was already obvious ... This triangle is following the guitar, because the three sounds are similar .00:23:674 (3,4) - if follow the vocals, this place should be a 1/1 slider- 00:26:824 (1,2,3,4,1,2) - The strongest note here 00:27:424 (1) - is just played with a low distance between 00:27:274 (4,1) - . So it is not really emphasized. And it looks like you prefered to emphasize vocals instead with the highest distance between 00:27:424 (1,2,3) - so it can be possible and it works. Concerning visual and structure, the way they are placed just looks like they are "thrown" away with a random distance between them, at least if you make the distance consistent between 00:26:824 (1,2,3) - , between 00:27:124 (3,4,1) - , it would be better.
emmm...00:27:424 (1,2) - I modified their location .fix.but This irregular quadrilateral is a pendulum that I often use .no fixed spacing. This is a shape similar to an equilateral quadrilateral, but it is more fluid than the quadrilateral due to its uneven spacing. The fixed spacing will increase the difficulty- 00:29:224 (1,2,3,4) - the same idea as ^, it also looks like they are thrown away. same
- 00:40:024 (1,2,3,4) - ^ same.but some changes in position
- 00:56:224 (1,2,3) - ^ , when you add a lower distance between 00:56:374 (2,3) - compared to the distance between 00:56:224 (1,2) - when the strongest note to emphasize is 00:56:524 (3) - so there should be more distance 00:56:374 (2,3) - or an equal distance as 00:56:224 (1,2) - .
fix- 04:41:674 (3,4,5,6) - ^ fix
- 04:51:274 (5,1) - The distance between them should be higher or equal to 04:50:974 (4,5) - , because the strongest note is on 04:51:424 (1) - which should be emphasized better. The low distance doesn't really do it.
fix
I don't really ask you to remap some parts (concerning the placement), but it would be nice to make things more tidied up at least. If i take another chinese reference, popner, "Sometimes remapping can be more useful than hundreds of moddings.".
Now that you made your stream shapes better, you should make your patterns more tidy, and then your map will be really nice.
No kd because you already kd my previous post (when i said no kd on it lol)
02:36:724 (5) - You should nudge this to the left. Looks kind of weird.
Topic Starter
sure.that's right.fixF1r3tar wrote:
02:36:724 (5) - You should nudge this to the left. Looks kind of weird.
01:46:024 (13) -
01:45:124 (4,1) -
04:13:624 (1,2,1) -
04:37:774 (11,12,13,14,15,16,1,2,3,4) -
04:28:924 (1,2,1,2,3) -
some revise
Humhh.. I'm just curious about some things. Firstly I think consistency is quite important and this map is kinda consistent but there's one major thing that I'm sort of not quite getting.
- 00:46:024 - The kiai here has the same vocals going "EXTRACTION ZOOONE" a lot yea? But the rhythm and everything is completely different than what you did for 01:36:874 - namely the streams like 01:36:874 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,1,2,3,4,5,6,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14) - don't appear in the first kiai at 00:46:024 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,5,6,1,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,5,1,2,1,2) - there's a lot of rhythm variation here. (There's also not two snares on 00:47:824 (1,2) - there's just one so maybe remove the hitsound for the other?) I think this breaks consistency quite a lot when you introduce a completely different way of mapping the second kiai than the first then do it again for the last kiai 04:29:524 (3,1,2,3,4,5,6,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1,2,1,2,3,4,5,6,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14,15,16,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,1,2) - namely the increasing spacing stream thing. There's a lot of variation in rhythm where the song stayed the same. I get that you want to keep it interesting but I can assure you varying the way you place patterns and whatnot should avoid boring the player anyways.
Umh, yeah. I just think that the consistency could be improved (regardless of rhythm it's more the concept of the accelerating streams that just doesn't really show itself until second kiai) perhaps if you did the decreasing/increasing spacing earlier on for 00:45:124 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,5) - or similar where you do something like this for the first stream even that would already be an improvement imo. (also I think 00:45:874 (11) - should have an NC on it right?) 00:47:074 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,5,1) - Something like this maybe? You can definitely do it with 00:49:924 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,5,6,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10) - and so on.
- 03:18:124 (3,4,5,6,7,8) - As fieryrage (albeit somewhat fiercely) mentioned, this concept is quite unexpected and looks very inconsistent when it's not done for 03:19:324 (3,4,5,6,7,8) - where the sounds are quite similar. There are also places earlier in the map where you can introduce this so it's not super sudden like for example stacking 00:48:274 (2,1) - ? This might be a stretch but you can probably use additive hitsounding to introduce this as early as 00:04:624 (2,1) - if you do this (note I silenced the slidertail) and add a clap maybe on the 3 instead. Idk it's just an idea. At least if you introduce it really early you can avoid unfair breaks later cuz it's already been established as a present concept in the map.
- 00:46:024 - The kiai here has the same vocals going "EXTRACTION ZOOONE" a lot yea? But the rhythm and everything is completely different than what you did for 01:36:874 - namely the streams like 01:36:874 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,1,2,3,4,5,6,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14) - don't appear in the first kiai at 00:46:024 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,5,6,1,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,5,1,2,1,2) - there's a lot of rhythm variation here. (There's also not two snares on 00:47:824 (1,2) - there's just one so maybe remove the hitsound for the other?) I think this breaks consistency quite a lot when you introduce a completely different way of mapping the second kiai than the first then do it again for the last kiai 04:29:524 (3,1,2,3,4,5,6,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1,2,1,2,3,4,5,6,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14,15,16,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,1,2) - namely the increasing spacing stream thing. There's a lot of variation in rhythm where the song stayed the same. I get that you want to keep it interesting but I can assure you varying the way you place patterns and whatnot should avoid boring the player anyways.
Umh, yeah. I just think that the consistency could be improved (regardless of rhythm it's more the concept of the accelerating streams that just doesn't really show itself until second kiai) perhaps if you did the decreasing/increasing spacing earlier on for 00:45:124 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,5) - or similar where you do something like this for the first stream even that would already be an improvement imo. (also I think 00:45:874 (11) - should have an NC on it right?) 00:47:074 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,5,1) - Something like this maybe? You can definitely do it with 00:49:924 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,5,6,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10) - and so on.
- 03:18:124 (3,4,5,6,7,8) - As fieryrage (albeit somewhat fiercely) mentioned, this concept is quite unexpected and looks very inconsistent when it's not done for 03:19:324 (3,4,5,6,7,8) - where the sounds are quite similar. There are also places earlier in the map where you can introduce this so it's not super sudden like for example stacking 00:48:274 (2,1) - ? This might be a stretch but you can probably use additive hitsounding to introduce this as early as 00:04:624 (2,1) - if you do this (note I silenced the slidertail) and add a clap maybe on the 3 instead. Idk it's just an idea. At least if you introduce it really early you can avoid unfair breaks later cuz it's already been established as a present concept in the map.
My post isn't kudos worry. Besides, I already got kudos from modding it.
bn, please deny it
bn, please deny it
tl;dr at bottom
hi! the hitsounds are cool, i like that you use hi-hats to emphasize when the singer sings "zone" (and other parts of the vocals). stream spacing is mapped to the vocals too which i enjoy a lot
the hi-hats are a little loud though, i suggest that you lower the volume a little bit. or you can make it so the hi hats fade out with every "zone" since the singer's "zone" gets softer toward the end. right now the hi hats start at 90% volume, maybe you could diminish the volume so that it starts at 80% and slowly goes down to 50%? or something along those lines. ZOOONnnee. also, i suggest that you avoid using too many hi-hats in other places, so that the wall of hi-hats can be reserved for vocals.
i do think that your general aesthetics could use some polishing. individually each note might not seem to matter that much, but many slightly misplaced notes and roughly-shaped streams will affect the players/mapper's overall sense of the map, which is actually very important.
some examples: 01:51:874 (7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14,15) - this whole stream, shape-wise, isn't very pretty. the right side bulges out a little, and the top side is flat. if it looked smoother and rounder, it'd look a lot nicer. 00:54:574 (5,6,7,8,9) - this stream is flat on the left, when i think it'd look a lot nicer when round.
another example is 01:11:074 (2) - this, and 04:52:474 (2) - . sliders like this will look VERY messy if not done exactly right. the 1st and 3rd segments of the slider should be equal in length, and parallel, or it will appear sloppy. i suggest you create one perfect version and copy paste that through the rest of the map, and rotate/flip when needed.
regarding consistency, HW is certainly one of the most consistent mappers out there. with each of her maps she generally picks a couple of interesting patterns (deconstruction star), or one overarching aesthetic choice (tsubaki) and sticks with that for her entire map. every one of her maps is incredibly internally consistent. one pattern to reflect one part of the song. structurally speaking it's very minimalist (like handsome, except his maps are minimalist in structure AND in pattern). HW will have some slight variations in her patterns throughout her map, but they aren't very major and they're still governed by an overall consistency. mapping is a pretty flexible artform (all artforms are), but the one rule that should be followed 99% of the time is consistency. the other 1% of the time is for very weird songs, which extraction zone is not, and for very experimental mapping that i've never seen anyone do yet.
tl;dr
hitsounding is cool in that they accentuate vocals, but lower the volume and maybe make the "zoone" hitsounds fade out slowly instead of ending abruptly. and maybe make it so that you don't use hi-hats often except when there are vocals to accentuate
first thing to do is to polish up your aesthetics. aesthetics plays a large part in forming a player's impression of the "identity" of the map, which is the #1 most important thing. also, the #1 strongest tool in forming identity is to keep consistency.
anyways those are just my opinions, good luck!
hi! the hitsounds are cool, i like that you use hi-hats to emphasize when the singer sings "zone" (and other parts of the vocals). stream spacing is mapped to the vocals too which i enjoy a lot
the hi-hats are a little loud though, i suggest that you lower the volume a little bit. or you can make it so the hi hats fade out with every "zone" since the singer's "zone" gets softer toward the end. right now the hi hats start at 90% volume, maybe you could diminish the volume so that it starts at 80% and slowly goes down to 50%? or something along those lines. ZOOONnnee. also, i suggest that you avoid using too many hi-hats in other places, so that the wall of hi-hats can be reserved for vocals.
i do think that your general aesthetics could use some polishing. individually each note might not seem to matter that much, but many slightly misplaced notes and roughly-shaped streams will affect the players/mapper's overall sense of the map, which is actually very important.
some examples: 01:51:874 (7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14,15) - this whole stream, shape-wise, isn't very pretty. the right side bulges out a little, and the top side is flat. if it looked smoother and rounder, it'd look a lot nicer. 00:54:574 (5,6,7,8,9) - this stream is flat on the left, when i think it'd look a lot nicer when round.
another example is 01:11:074 (2) - this, and 04:52:474 (2) - . sliders like this will look VERY messy if not done exactly right. the 1st and 3rd segments of the slider should be equal in length, and parallel, or it will appear sloppy. i suggest you create one perfect version and copy paste that through the rest of the map, and rotate/flip when needed.
regarding consistency, HW is certainly one of the most consistent mappers out there. with each of her maps she generally picks a couple of interesting patterns (deconstruction star), or one overarching aesthetic choice (tsubaki) and sticks with that for her entire map. every one of her maps is incredibly internally consistent. one pattern to reflect one part of the song. structurally speaking it's very minimalist (like handsome, except his maps are minimalist in structure AND in pattern). HW will have some slight variations in her patterns throughout her map, but they aren't very major and they're still governed by an overall consistency. mapping is a pretty flexible artform (all artforms are), but the one rule that should be followed 99% of the time is consistency. the other 1% of the time is for very weird songs, which extraction zone is not, and for very experimental mapping that i've never seen anyone do yet.
tl;dr
hitsounding is cool in that they accentuate vocals, but lower the volume and maybe make the "zoone" hitsounds fade out slowly instead of ending abruptly. and maybe make it so that you don't use hi-hats often except when there are vocals to accentuate
first thing to do is to polish up your aesthetics. aesthetics plays a large part in forming a player's impression of the "identity" of the map, which is the #1 most important thing. also, the #1 strongest tool in forming identity is to keep consistency.
anyways those are just my opinions, good luck!
Another quick suggestion. 01:56:374 (1) seems unnecessarily long. You could end it at 02:03:124 and start a spinner on the white tick.
Topic Starter
I have unified your opinion. At least for now, I think it has no other problemsMir wrote:
Humhh.. I'm just curious about some things. Firstly I think consistency is quite important and this map is kinda consistent but there's one major thing that I'm sort of not quite getting.
- 00:46:024 - The kiai here has the same vocals going "EXTRACTION ZOOONE" a lot yea? But the rhythm and everything is completely different than what you did for 01:36:874 - namely the streams like 01:36:874 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,1,2,3,4,5,6,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14) - don't appear in the first kiai at 00:46:024 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,5,6,1,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,5,1,2,1,2) - there's a lot of rhythm variation here. (There's also not two snares on 00:47:824 (1,2) - there's just one so maybe remove the hitsound for the other?) I think this breaks consistency quite a lot when you introduce a completely different way of mapping the second kiai than the first then do it again for the last kiai 04:29:524 (3,1,2,3,4,5,6,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1,2,1,2,3,4,5,6,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14,15,16,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,1,2) - namely the increasing spacing stream thing. There's a lot of variation in rhythm where the song stayed the same. I get that you want to keep it interesting but I can assure you varying the way you place patterns and whatnot should avoid boring the player anyways.
00:45:874 (11,12,1) - hummm...It was a mistake. I didn't find it before .the subtle changes are in NC and 0.1 in DS .fixIn fact, there are three different mapping changes. The other section is 01:36:124 (1) - 01:56:224 (1) - .04:29:674 (1) - There are some big changes, but there should be no problem now
Umh, yeah. I just think that the consistency could be improved (regardless of rhythm it's more the concept of the accelerating streams that just doesn't really show itself until second kiai) perhaps if you did the decreasing/increasing spacing earlier on for 00:45:124 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,5) - or similar where you do something like this for the first stream even that would already be an improvement imo. (also I think 00:45:874 (11) - should have an NC on it right?) 00:47:074 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,5,1) - Something like this maybe? You can definitely do it with 00:49:924 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,5,6,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10) - and so on.
- 03:18:124 (3,4,5,6,7,8) - As fieryrage (albeit somewhat fiercely) mentioned, this concept is quite unexpected and looks very inconsistent when it's not done for 03:19:324 (3,4,5,6,7,8) - where the sounds are quite similar. There are also places earlier in the map where you can introduce this so it's not super sudden like for example stacking 00:48:274 (2,1) - ? This might be a stretch but you can probably use additive hitsounding to introduce this as early as 00:04:624 (2,1) - if you do this (note I silenced the slidertail) and add a clap maybe on the 3 instead. Idk it's just an idea. At least if you introduce it really early you can avoid unfair breaks later cuz it's already been established as a present concept in the map.
Topic Starter
thx fod modmelloe wrote:
tl;dr at bottom
hi! the hitsounds are cool, i like that you use hi-hats to emphasize when the singer sings "zone" (and other parts of the vocals). stream spacing is mapped to the vocals too which i enjoy a lot
the hi-hats are a little loud though, i suggest that you lower the volume a little bit. or you can make it so the hi hats fade out with every "zone" since the singer's "zone" gets softer toward the end. right now the hi hats start at 90% volume, maybe you could diminish the volume so that it starts at 80% and slowly goes down to 50%? or something along those lines. ZOOONnnee. also, i suggest that you avoid using too many hi-hats in other places, so that the wall of hi-hats can be reserved for vocals.
hummm..fix
i do think that your general aesthetics could use some polishing. individually each note might not seem to matter that much, but many slightly misplaced notes and roughly-shaped streams will affect the players/mapper's overall sense of the map, which is actually very important.
some examples: 01:51:874 (7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14,15) - this whole stream, shape-wise, isn't very pretty. the right side bulges out a little, and the top side is flat. if it looked smoother and rounder, it'd look a lot nicer. 00:54:574 (5,6,7,8,9) - this stream is flat on the left, when i think it'd look a lot nicer when round.
another example is 01:11:074 (2) - this, and 04:52:474 (2) - . sliders like this will look VERY messy if not done exactly right. the 1st and 3rd segments of the slider should be equal in length, and parallel, or it will appear sloppy. i suggest you create one perfect version and copy paste that through the rest of the map, and rotate/flip when needed.
same to 01:51:874 (7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14,15) - 00:54:574 (5,6,7,8,9) -I really don't want to change these. Because everyone has different tastes. It's not really necessary. I tried to compromise .some fix
regarding consistency, HW is certainly one of the most consistent mappers out there. with each of her maps she generally picks a couple of interesting patterns (deconstruction star), or one overarching aesthetic choice (tsubaki) and sticks with that for her entire map. every one of her maps is incredibly internally consistent. one pattern to reflect one part of the song. structurally speaking it's very minimalist (like handsome, except his maps are minimalist in structure AND in pattern). HW will have some slight variations in her patterns throughout her map, but they aren't very major and they're still governed by an overall consistency. mapping is a pretty flexible artform (all artforms are), but the one rule that should be followed 99% of the time is consistency. the other 1% of the time is for very weird songs, which extraction zone is not, and for very experimental mapping that i've never seen anyone do yet.
tl;dr
hitsounding is cool in that they accentuate vocals, but lower the volume and maybe make the "zoone" hitsounds fade out slowly instead of ending abruptly. and maybe make it so that you don't use hi-hats often except when there are vocals to accentuate
first thing to do is to polish up your aesthetics. aesthetics plays a large part in forming a player's impression of the "identity" of the map, which is the #1 most important thing. also, the #1 strongest tool in forming identity is to keep consistency.
anyways those are just my opinions, good luck!
fixF1r3tar wrote:
Another quick suggestion. 01:56:374 (1) seems unnecessarily long. You could end it at 02:03:124 and start a spinner on the white tick.
SPOILER
20:05 09kami: hi mir T T
20:05 09kami: can u make a quick check? I made a lot of things consistent
20:05 *09kami is listening to [https://osu.ppy.sh/b/1007522 DragonForce - Extraction Zone]
20:05 Mir: hi hii
20:05 Mir: sure lets see
20:06 09kami: At least there are not so many inconsistencies now...
20:06 Mir: well aside from the fact that each kiai is mapped somehow differently i suppose
20:08 Mir: hmm so what exactly did you change
20:08 09kami: emmm..The last Kiai
20:09 Mir: it looks quite similar as the last time i saw it o.o
20:10 09kami: and "zone" consistency
20:10 09kami: Some details
20:10 Mir: 00:49:924 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4) - like here?
20:11 09kami: yup
20:11 Mir: hmm i see, but the difference is very small compared to 01:36:124 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10) -
20:12 Mir: also to keep the ncing consistent probably remove 00:50:224 (1) - ?
20:13 Mir: o nvm
20:14 09kami: emmm..fix?
20:14 Mir: you're asking me? xD
20:15 Mir: i suppose
20:15 Mir: 00:51:424 (1,2,1) - these too kinda hmm
20:15 Mir: you can probably instead do a stream?
20:15 09kami: 00:47:449 (1) - Actually, there's a NC I forgot
20:15 Mir: 01:41:674 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,1,2,3,4,1,2,1,2,3,4) - cuz it's kinda like something similar here
20:16 Mir: 01:36:124 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10) - and you can increase/decrease spacing like here
20:17 09kami: 00:51:424 (1,2,1) - emmm...I think there no problem..
20:18 09kami: u mean adjusting the position?
20:18 Mir: you didnt use 1/4 sliders like this elsewhere though, so why here?
20:18 Mir: i mean just having them 1/4 sliders instead of streams
20:19 09kami: 00:46:624 (5,6,1) - like this?
20:19 Mir: mm yeah im confused why you use 1/4 sliders here
20:19 Mir: cuz in the song i dont really hear a difference from the second and last kiais
20:20 09kami: 00:46:624 - Because the voice disappeared
20:20 09kami: 00:51:424 (1,2,1) -
20:20 09kami: same
20:20 Mir: 01:43:324 (7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14) - here too tho
20:21 Mir: 04:30:124 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1,2) - and here
20:21 Mir: but there you're still using streams o.o
20:21 09kami: This is because of the different kiai
20:22 09kami: In some places I have adopted different mapping methods
20:22 09kami: 01:39:124 (1,2,3,4,5) - like this
20:22 09kami: 00:48:124 (1,2,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13) -
20:22 09kami: 04:31:924 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14) -
20:23 Mir: hmm but the song doesn't change so why are you changing the map?
20:23 09kami: In fact, the difference between the three sections is that they retain the same mapping method only in their own section
20:24 09kami: It's the same as Collab
20:24 Mir: hmm but it isn't a collab, right?
20:25 09kami: It's just me play three characters
20:25 Mir: hmm
20:26 *09kami is listening to [https://osu.ppy.sh/b/1321810 Meramipop - Nokosareta Namae -Toori Kazoe Uta-]
20:26 09kami: like this
20:26 Mir: mm but the song changes so i can understand the differences
20:26 09kami: all the blue lines are mapped differently
20:26 Mir: here the song really just repeats itself 3 times but the map changes every time
20:26 09kami: But there are some places that are the same
20:27 09kami: It's just that I made him look different
20:27 Mir: hmmmmmm
20:28 Mir: i cant say i agree, but sergio and uhh.. the other bn seem to think it's fine so be it
20:29 Mir: 03:18:124 (3,4,5,6,7,8) - this remains questionable
20:29 Mir: imo
20:29 09kami: emmmAt least let it experiment on this map
20:31 09kami: http://puu.sh/xf3aY/44ebdeae93.png
20:31 09kami: Change to this?
20:31 Mir: would work, yea
20:32 09kami: To be honest. I want to finish this map as soon as possible. August 30th I won't have time. For some reason, I may not be in touch with the Internet for a long time
20:33 Mir: i see, a race against time then
20:33 Mir: well let me look at the streams since afaik those were like the biggest problems
20:33 09kami: So I'm going to compromise as much as I can
20:34 09kami: Hummm.. I've maintained consistency between the three sections
20:34 09kami: There is at least a certain amount of persuasion
20:37 09kami: 01:36:124 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10) - emmmm..Decline?
20:38 Mir: well no no
20:38 Mir: one second
20:38 09kami: decrease e
20:38 Mir: regarding one thing on the first kiai
20:38 Mir: 00:47:674 - these 1/4 sliders should have the same combo as 00:46:624 - right?
20:39 Mir: 00:46:624 - probably nc here i think
20:39 09kami: fix
20:40 Mir: 01:01:474 (15,16,1) - hmm so in the first kiai you used a really sharp bend here
20:40 Mir: 01:02:749 (16,1,2) - but nothing here or 01:03:949 (16,1,2) - etc
20:40 Mir: it's a lot harder to change direction that harshly than to follow an increase in spacing i think
20:41 Mir: and those other sounds definitely are at least equal if not stronger than where you decided to change the direction
20:42 09kami: fix
20:42 Mir: hmm how did you fix it?
20:44 09kami: Change that bend
20:45 09kami: Just a flow line
20:45 Mir: so something like this? http://i.imgur.com/c10QbbW.png
20:47 09kami: yup
20:47 Mir: mm okay
20:48 Mir: 00:08:674 (15,16,1,2) - you have something similar here
20:48 Mir: 00:11:149 (16,1,2) - 00:12:349 (16,1,2) - are okay
20:48 Mir: 00:06:349 (16,1,2) - but here nothing?
20:48 Mir: 00:07:549 (16,1,2) - here nothing too x.x
20:48 Mir: looks like really inconsistent since they're the same sounds strength
20:50 09kami: hummmm I don't think there's any need to change it here .mabey
20:50 09kami: There is a buffer process here
20:50 09kami: 00:06:049 (12,13,14,15,16,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10) -
20:50 09kami: 00:07:324 (13,14,15,16,1,2,3,4,5,6,7) -
20:51 09kami: The angle here is getting sharper and sharper
20:51 Mir: ahh i see
20:52 09kami: If you feel the need, I can unify the first two into an acute angle
20:52 Mir: on the grounds of consistency that would work, but keeping to the "buffer process" that may not work
20:54 Mir: what about
20:54 Mir: http://i.imgur.com/IaMLQeY.png
20:54 Mir: so there's no massive direction change but there's still emphasis since you have to move suddenly for that note
20:54 09kami: hummm So, I'll unify the first paragraph?
20:55 09kami: 00:10:024 (1) - From here. You can think of the second paragraph
20:55 Mir: if you, as you say, unify the first paragraph, do you mean make it the same-ish relating to the second paragraph?
20:56 09kami: yup
20:56 Mir: then you can do so
20:57 09kami: http://i.imgur.com/IaMLQeY.png like this/
20:57 09kami: ?
20:57 Mir: that's a possibility
20:57 Mir: it's not as consistent but it promotes emphasis
20:58 Mir: so it's not like there's not emphasis consistency anymore but there's still direction inconsistency
20:58 09kami: emmm.. if I change all the key places to an acute angle?
20:59 Mir: if you did that it'd be entirely consistent
20:59 09kami: Let me try.
21:05 09kami: I updated. u can have look
21:05 Mir: yeah that looks a lot better
21:06 09kami:
21:06 09kami: Is there anywhere else?
21:08 Mir: mm not necessarily but im kinda questioning 01:00:424 - since this whole stream doesn't have any direction changes or emphasis on key points like 01:01:474 (15,16,1) - etc
21:08 Mir: it's kinda just one really long stream with a spacing increase in the middle
21:10 09kami: mabey
21:10 09kami: like 00:48:424 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14,1,2,3,4,5,6,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,5,6) -
21:10 09kami: this
21:11 Mir: mhm that's actually true as well for this one
21:11 Mir: for the kiai stream it's actually fairly easy to aim that since there's no direction changes
21:11 Mir: 00:07:549 (16,1,2) - 00:11:149 (16,1,2) - but these earlier in the map present a harsher changes
21:11 Mir: which is in a non-kiai section too
21:12 09kami: But some voices are different
21:14 Mir: hmm that is true but that doesn't change the fact that this stream lacks a lot of emphasis that previous and later stream has
21:14 Mir: have*
21:14 09kami: But in other Kiai sections, I emphasize these places
21:14 09kami: These three kiai paragraphs are actually in a clear order of difficulty. This is the increasing difficulty
21:16 Mir: hmm while i can understand you want to have an increasing difficulty
21:16 Mir: there should be a similarity in the concepts used to achieve that difficulty increase
21:16 Mir: for example not using very harsh changes in the first kiai, using moderately harsh changes for second kiai, and doing stuff like 01:55:399 (6,7,8,1,2) - for the third kiai for example
21:16 Mir: a i said for example twice ><
21:17 09kami: And there are some places
21:17 09kami: They have some changes in the pitch, which is also an emphasis
21:17 09kami: spacing
21:17 Mir: mm true but spacing is a lot less difficult to adjust to compared to a straight-up direction change, no?
21:19 09kami: emmm...In fact, this change is huge, because it's a long stream
21:19 09kami: This may be a slight change for mapper, but for players, it's a very sudden acceleration. It's a difficult part
21:20 09kami: 04:30:124 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1,2,1,2,3) - They're not like here. There's a process
21:25 Mir: hmm having played it
21:25 Mir: albeit with relax just now
21:25 Mir: i feel like the spacing increases were quite easy to adjust to
21:26 Mir: 04:30:124 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1,2,1,2,3) - these were quite easy but were emphasis in their own right so i can agree with these
21:27 Mir: but the emphasis on 01:00:124 - increases so slightly
21:27 Mir: that it doesn't have enough contrast to compensate over the long run imho
21:28 09kami: hummm
21:29 09kami: So should change their angle?
21:29 Mir: either that or make the spacing difference way more noticeable
21:30 Mir: 04:46:249 (2,3,4,5,6,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12) - like something similar to this
21:30 Mir: which i have my own issues with but the general idea is this kinda of contrast would make sense
21:35 09kami: add some ds
21:36 Mir: hmm can you send .osu or update so i can see? or send screenshot xD
21:36 09kami: I'm uploading it, but it's stopped
21:37 Mir: 11%?
21:37 09kami: emmmm Wait
21:37 09kami: no .Just suddenly broke the link
21:38 Mir: oo
21:38 09kami: https://puu.sh/xf66g/47b8e0b701.osu
21:38 09kami: well
21:38 09kami: Copy it directly. I'll update it later
21:39 Mir: 01:03:724 (1,2,3,4) - hmm can you lower this more?
21:40 09kami: hummm sure
21:40 Mir: probably 0.8 would work
21:41 Mir: 01:02:374 (11,12,13,14,15,16) - and probably you can lower this too so that "zoooone" at 01:02:824 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12) - gets way more emphasis
21:42 09kami: 01:03:724 (1,2,3,4) - http://puu.sh/xf6fQ/90d5332369.png
21:42 09kami: like this?
21:42 Mir: ooo yeah that looks good
21:43 09kami: 01:00:424 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14,15,16) - 01:01:624 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14,15,16) - I want to keep this increase
21:44 Mir: hmm okay
21:44 09kami: 01:02:824 (1,2,3,4) - These increases are already obvious,.1.4X
21:44 Mir: yeah, true
21:44 09kami: will it be too hard? Because these appear in the first paragraph of Kiai
21:45 Mir: ideally a map should have consistent difficulty so the player knows what they're getting into as soon as the map starts imo
21:45 Mir: increasing the difficulty over time does work and is a viable idea but if you make it too easy at the start and the player just fails later it's kinda
21:45 09kami: ok
21:45 Mir: so introducing such emphasis earlier is fine
21:46 Mir: uh so something else i noticed
21:46 Mir: 01:28:624 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - these are mapped to the guitar right? 01:31:024 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - these seem kinda out of place considering the guitar changes quite a bit
21:47 09kami: yup
21:48 09kami: Here's an obvious switch. I think it's between the vocals and the guitar
21:49 09kami: 01:27:424 (1,2,3,1,2) - vocals
21:49 09kami: 01:28:624 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - guitar
21:49 09kami: 01:29:824 (1,2,3,1,2) - 01:31:024 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - same
21:50 Mir: hmm i see
21:50 Mir: but the "issue" i have with this is that 01:31:024 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - here the guitar is not the same as it was for 01:28:624 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) -
21:50 Mir: emphasis is put on 01:31:474 (4) - and 01:31:774 (6,7) -
21:50 Mir: 01:31:174 (2) - as well to some extent
21:51 Mir: but having them all in the same pattern makes it look and play like01:28:624 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - which is completely different with the guitar cuz it's all normal and constant
21:53 09kami: 01:31:474 (4,5,6,7,8) - Emmmm... u mean to make a change?
21:53 Mir: yup, some kind of indication that the guitar isn't quite the same as it was the first time
21:55 09kami: hummmm if
21:55 09kami: delete 01:31:174 (2,4,6,8) -
21:57 Mir: what would you do after deleting it? o.o
21:57 09kami: White line slider.Increase their length
21:58 09kami: Deliberately ignore some rhythms. Express them in different ways
21:58 Mir: 01:31:474 - 01:31:774 - i wonder about ignoring these though, since there are noticable spikes in the guitar here
21:59 09kami: emmmm....or delete white line slider
22:00 Mir: that would work
22:00 Mir: 01:31:924 - you have a 1/4 stream starting here with drums though, do you want to ignore that too?
22:01 09kami: ok.I give up the idea
22:02 Mir: hmmmm
22:03 Mir: you can do a sliderend stream
22:03 Mir: http://i.imgur.com/rkDcEIt.png probably
22:06 09kami: fix
22:06 Mir: alright cool
22:08 Mir: hmm probably lowering 01:53:374 (1,2,3,4,5,6) - or increasing01:53:824 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14,15,16) - might give some nice contrast
22:08 Mir: spacing-wise
22:09 09kami: but.01:53:374 (1,2,3,4,5,6) - It has been lowered
22:09 09kami: Aren't they obvious enough?
22:10 Mir: 01:02:224 (9,10,11,12,13,14,15,16) - considering you didn't really do that here
22:10 Mir: maybe it's better to actually not decrease it
22:10 Mir: and instead leave it constant, idk
22:11 09kami: Hummm...Then I'll lower it some more
22:12 Mir: which one are you lowering? first kiai or second kiai? x.x
22:13 09kami: 01:53:374 (1,2,3,4,5,6) -
22:13 09kami: this
22:13 Mir: ah okay
22:14 09kami: 01:02:224 (9,10,11,12,13,14,15,16) - emmm
22:14 09kami: What does this mean here?
22:14 Mir: i was pointing out that you didn't lower that for the same reasons as you lowered it for the second kiai
22:15 09kami: oo
22:15 Mir: it might be nice to do it in the first kiai too
22:18 Mir: now here's something interesting, 03:01:924 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14,15,16) - is very possibly 1/3 so why didn't you map it as 1/3 o.o
22:21 09kami: In some similar places, if you follow the guitar, can't map
22:21 09kami: In fact, this is instead to maintain a consistency with the player, and the drums have enough rhythm to support 1/4
22:22 09kami: 1/3 and 1/4 stream frequent switching. Will mislead the player
22:23 09kami: 03:21:424 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,1,2,3,4,1) -
22:23 09kami: like this
22:23 Mir: hmm having tried it out i came up with http://i.imgur.com/CyRDC3H.png
22:24 09kami: 03:21:124 (13,14,15,16,1,2,3,4,5) -
22:24 Mir: or something
22:25 09kami: hummmm i try
22:30 09kami: https://puu.sh/xf8ky/824bfb52e7.png
22:30 09kami: like this?
22:31 Mir: hmm
22:32 Mir: how about making 03:02:224 - a 2/3 slider
22:32 Mir: since there's nothing on 03:02:324 - and 03:02:424 - lands after a reverse so it kinda loses emphasis
22:34 09kami: fix
22:35 Mir: 03:10:624 (1,2,3,4,5,6,1,2,3,4,5,6,1,2,3,4,5) - looking at this hmm you used quite a few direction changes but
22:35 Mir: 03:11:974 (1,2,3,4,5,6,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1) - as a climactic stream this doesn't use any
22:35 Mir: kinda weird not emphasizing the last strong stream as much as the previous one imo
22:40 09kami: I really don't want to change this place .But I'm not quite sure how to explain the process .Let me see how to express it
22:40 Mir: okay
22:42 09kami: http://puu.sh/xf8Ol/75d4dfdb30.jpg
22:42 09kami: This paragraph is like a vase. Although the front is very winding, you only need to finish flow to finish it
22:42 Mir: hmm
22:43 09kami: But there's something different, because it's a natural feeling. You can think it's just because I think he's changed in 03:11:824 (5)
22:43 Mir: in keeping with that idea
22:43 Mir: how about instead of changing direction, increase the spacing?
22:44 09kami: If all the places are trimmed together, I lose a special feeling. I know how to express it
22:45 Mir: something like this probably http://i.imgur.com/Cu1OilN.png
22:45 Mir: you can probably make it look nicer than me though x.x
22:45 Mir: so with the spacing increase there's still emphasis while still keeping the direction
22:46 09kami: But it does not increase the spacing to the feeling
22:46 09kami: So I used 03:11:824 (5) - to distinguish them
22:47 Mir: hmmm
22:47 09kami: 03:12:424 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4) -
22:47 09kami: add this?
22:47 Mir: mhm, add spacing to that
22:47 Mir: instead of changing how it flows at all
22:48 09kami: but 03:11:974 (1,2,3,4,5,6) - this
22:48 09kami: 1.0
22:48 09kami: 03:12:424 (1,2,3,4) - this
22:48 09kami: 1.2
22:48 Mir: 03:12:424 (1,2,3,4) - 1.2 03:12:724 (1,2,3,4) - 1.4
22:48 Mir: possibly
22:49 09kami: emmm
22:49 09kami: 03:12:724 (1,2,3,4) - 1.3Isn't it high enough?
22:50 Mir: contrast is lacking there imo
22:50 09kami: ok i do
22:51 09kami: done
22:51 Mir: 03:53:524 (1,2,1) - eeeeee
22:52 Mir: since you removed the other one, having this one would be too unexpected imo
22:53 09kami: hummm....Here's kencho's advice
22:53 09kami: 03:12:724 (1,2,3,4) - and
22:53 09kami: http://puu.sh/xf9mW/3ae0060113.png
22:53 Mir: that could work too, it seems like the spacing increase is more obvious that way as well
22:54 Mir: but we both kind had the same idea there so yeah xD
22:54 09kami: 03:53:824 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,1) - Here, if follow the guitar, can't map
22:55 09kami: Because some are not at fixed rhythm.
22:55 09kami: on
22:57 Mir: nono im not saying follow the guitar
22:57 Mir: im saying 03:53:749 (2,1) - this stack is unexpected
22:59 Mir: how about trying http://i.imgur.com/kgDqeOJ.png
22:59 Mir: 03:55:024 (1,2) - so it's similar to this
23:03 09kami: http://puu.sh/xf9RS/be7cf68bb1.png
23:03 Mir: yeah that works too lol
23:05 Mir: 04:47:824 (5,6,7,8) - for this one i find it kind of strange that the switch in guitar gets the lowest spacing o.o
23:05 Mir: i feel like it should all be the same spacing
23:07 09kami: the end is in this place
23:08 09kami: 04:47:524 (1) -
23:08 09kami: 04:47:524 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - It's a steady process
23:09 Mir: mm i see but 04:47:824 (5) - this note in particular stands out a lot but there isn't much emphasis on it
23:10 09kami: hummm..So that's where it begins?
23:10 Mir: at least my interpretation of it is
23:11 Mir: 04:47:524 (1,2,3,4) - it declines here
23:11 Mir: and starts up here 04:47:824 (5,6,7,8,1) -
23:11 Mir: so essentially swapping where you decrease the spacing with where you increase it would make more sense to me
23:12 09kami: fix
23:13 Mir: 04:49:624 (1) - REALLY nazi but can you move this like 5 px up lol
23:13 Mir: so it has similar distance with 04:49:774 (2,5) -
23:13 Mir: other than that i have nothing else to point out so, update?
23:14 09kami: suer
23:14 09kami: sure
23:21 09kami: done
23:26 Mir: yeah this looks much much better
23:26 09kami: :w: thx for loooooong irc
23:27 Mir: no problem hehe
23:27 Mir: i'll summarize and post on thread
23:27 09kami: can u post to map?
23:27 Mir: mhm
20:05 09kami: can u make a quick check? I made a lot of things consistent
20:05 *09kami is listening to [https://osu.ppy.sh/b/1007522 DragonForce - Extraction Zone]
20:05 Mir: hi hii
20:05 Mir: sure lets see
20:06 09kami: At least there are not so many inconsistencies now...
20:06 Mir: well aside from the fact that each kiai is mapped somehow differently i suppose
20:08 Mir: hmm so what exactly did you change
20:08 09kami: emmm..The last Kiai
20:09 Mir: it looks quite similar as the last time i saw it o.o
20:10 09kami: and "zone" consistency
20:10 09kami: Some details
20:10 Mir: 00:49:924 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4) - like here?
20:11 09kami: yup
20:11 Mir: hmm i see, but the difference is very small compared to 01:36:124 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10) -
20:12 Mir: also to keep the ncing consistent probably remove 00:50:224 (1) - ?
20:13 Mir: o nvm
20:14 09kami: emmm..fix?
20:14 Mir: you're asking me? xD
20:15 Mir: i suppose
20:15 Mir: 00:51:424 (1,2,1) - these too kinda hmm
20:15 Mir: you can probably instead do a stream?
20:15 09kami: 00:47:449 (1) - Actually, there's a NC I forgot
20:15 Mir: 01:41:674 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,1,2,3,4,1,2,1,2,3,4) - cuz it's kinda like something similar here
20:16 Mir: 01:36:124 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10) - and you can increase/decrease spacing like here
20:17 09kami: 00:51:424 (1,2,1) - emmm...I think there no problem..
20:18 09kami: u mean adjusting the position?
20:18 Mir: you didnt use 1/4 sliders like this elsewhere though, so why here?
20:18 Mir: i mean just having them 1/4 sliders instead of streams
20:19 09kami: 00:46:624 (5,6,1) - like this?
20:19 Mir: mm yeah im confused why you use 1/4 sliders here
20:19 Mir: cuz in the song i dont really hear a difference from the second and last kiais
20:20 09kami: 00:46:624 - Because the voice disappeared
20:20 09kami: 00:51:424 (1,2,1) -
20:20 09kami: same
20:20 Mir: 01:43:324 (7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14) - here too tho
20:21 Mir: 04:30:124 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1,2) - and here
20:21 Mir: but there you're still using streams o.o
20:21 09kami: This is because of the different kiai
20:22 09kami: In some places I have adopted different mapping methods
20:22 09kami: 01:39:124 (1,2,3,4,5) - like this
20:22 09kami: 00:48:124 (1,2,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13) -
20:22 09kami: 04:31:924 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14) -
20:23 Mir: hmm but the song doesn't change so why are you changing the map?
20:23 09kami: In fact, the difference between the three sections is that they retain the same mapping method only in their own section
20:24 09kami: It's the same as Collab
20:24 Mir: hmm but it isn't a collab, right?
20:25 09kami: It's just me play three characters
20:25 Mir: hmm
20:26 *09kami is listening to [https://osu.ppy.sh/b/1321810 Meramipop - Nokosareta Namae -Toori Kazoe Uta-]
20:26 09kami: like this
20:26 Mir: mm but the song changes so i can understand the differences
20:26 09kami: all the blue lines are mapped differently
20:26 Mir: here the song really just repeats itself 3 times but the map changes every time
20:26 09kami: But there are some places that are the same
20:27 09kami: It's just that I made him look different
20:27 Mir: hmmmmmm
20:28 Mir: i cant say i agree, but sergio and uhh.. the other bn seem to think it's fine so be it
20:29 Mir: 03:18:124 (3,4,5,6,7,8) - this remains questionable
20:29 Mir: imo
20:29 09kami: emmmAt least let it experiment on this map
20:31 09kami: http://puu.sh/xf3aY/44ebdeae93.png
20:31 09kami: Change to this?
20:31 Mir: would work, yea
20:32 09kami: To be honest. I want to finish this map as soon as possible. August 30th I won't have time. For some reason, I may not be in touch with the Internet for a long time
20:33 Mir: i see, a race against time then
20:33 Mir: well let me look at the streams since afaik those were like the biggest problems
20:33 09kami: So I'm going to compromise as much as I can
20:34 09kami: Hummm.. I've maintained consistency between the three sections
20:34 09kami: There is at least a certain amount of persuasion
20:37 09kami: 01:36:124 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10) - emmmm..Decline?
20:38 Mir: well no no
20:38 Mir: one second
20:38 09kami: decrease e
20:38 Mir: regarding one thing on the first kiai
20:38 Mir: 00:47:674 - these 1/4 sliders should have the same combo as 00:46:624 - right?
20:39 Mir: 00:46:624 - probably nc here i think
20:39 09kami: fix
20:40 Mir: 01:01:474 (15,16,1) - hmm so in the first kiai you used a really sharp bend here
20:40 Mir: 01:02:749 (16,1,2) - but nothing here or 01:03:949 (16,1,2) - etc
20:40 Mir: it's a lot harder to change direction that harshly than to follow an increase in spacing i think
20:41 Mir: and those other sounds definitely are at least equal if not stronger than where you decided to change the direction
20:42 09kami: fix
20:42 Mir: hmm how did you fix it?
20:44 09kami: Change that bend
20:45 09kami: Just a flow line
20:45 Mir: so something like this? http://i.imgur.com/c10QbbW.png
20:47 09kami: yup
20:47 Mir: mm okay
20:48 Mir: 00:08:674 (15,16,1,2) - you have something similar here
20:48 Mir: 00:11:149 (16,1,2) - 00:12:349 (16,1,2) - are okay
20:48 Mir: 00:06:349 (16,1,2) - but here nothing?
20:48 Mir: 00:07:549 (16,1,2) - here nothing too x.x
20:48 Mir: looks like really inconsistent since they're the same sounds strength
20:50 09kami: hummmm I don't think there's any need to change it here .mabey
20:50 09kami: There is a buffer process here
20:50 09kami: 00:06:049 (12,13,14,15,16,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10) -
20:50 09kami: 00:07:324 (13,14,15,16,1,2,3,4,5,6,7) -
20:51 09kami: The angle here is getting sharper and sharper
20:51 Mir: ahh i see
20:52 09kami: If you feel the need, I can unify the first two into an acute angle
20:52 Mir: on the grounds of consistency that would work, but keeping to the "buffer process" that may not work
20:54 Mir: what about
20:54 Mir: http://i.imgur.com/IaMLQeY.png
20:54 Mir: so there's no massive direction change but there's still emphasis since you have to move suddenly for that note
20:54 09kami: hummm So, I'll unify the first paragraph?
20:55 09kami: 00:10:024 (1) - From here. You can think of the second paragraph
20:55 Mir: if you, as you say, unify the first paragraph, do you mean make it the same-ish relating to the second paragraph?
20:56 09kami: yup
20:56 Mir: then you can do so
20:57 09kami: http://i.imgur.com/IaMLQeY.png like this/
20:57 09kami: ?
20:57 Mir: that's a possibility
20:57 Mir: it's not as consistent but it promotes emphasis
20:58 Mir: so it's not like there's not emphasis consistency anymore but there's still direction inconsistency
20:58 09kami: emmm.. if I change all the key places to an acute angle?
20:59 Mir: if you did that it'd be entirely consistent
20:59 09kami: Let me try.
21:05 09kami: I updated. u can have look
21:05 Mir: yeah that looks a lot better
21:06 09kami:
21:06 09kami: Is there anywhere else?
21:08 Mir: mm not necessarily but im kinda questioning 01:00:424 - since this whole stream doesn't have any direction changes or emphasis on key points like 01:01:474 (15,16,1) - etc
21:08 Mir: it's kinda just one really long stream with a spacing increase in the middle
21:10 09kami: mabey
21:10 09kami: like 00:48:424 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14,1,2,3,4,5,6,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,5,6) -
21:10 09kami: this
21:11 Mir: mhm that's actually true as well for this one
21:11 Mir: for the kiai stream it's actually fairly easy to aim that since there's no direction changes
21:11 Mir: 00:07:549 (16,1,2) - 00:11:149 (16,1,2) - but these earlier in the map present a harsher changes
21:11 Mir: which is in a non-kiai section too
21:12 09kami: But some voices are different
21:14 Mir: hmm that is true but that doesn't change the fact that this stream lacks a lot of emphasis that previous and later stream has
21:14 Mir: have*
21:14 09kami: But in other Kiai sections, I emphasize these places
21:14 09kami: These three kiai paragraphs are actually in a clear order of difficulty. This is the increasing difficulty
21:16 Mir: hmm while i can understand you want to have an increasing difficulty
21:16 Mir: there should be a similarity in the concepts used to achieve that difficulty increase
21:16 Mir: for example not using very harsh changes in the first kiai, using moderately harsh changes for second kiai, and doing stuff like 01:55:399 (6,7,8,1,2) - for the third kiai for example
21:16 Mir: a i said for example twice ><
21:17 09kami: And there are some places
21:17 09kami: They have some changes in the pitch, which is also an emphasis
21:17 09kami: spacing
21:17 Mir: mm true but spacing is a lot less difficult to adjust to compared to a straight-up direction change, no?
21:19 09kami: emmm...In fact, this change is huge, because it's a long stream
21:19 09kami: This may be a slight change for mapper, but for players, it's a very sudden acceleration. It's a difficult part
21:20 09kami: 04:30:124 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1,2,1,2,3) - They're not like here. There's a process
21:25 Mir: hmm having played it
21:25 Mir: albeit with relax just now
21:25 Mir: i feel like the spacing increases were quite easy to adjust to
21:26 Mir: 04:30:124 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1,2,1,2,3) - these were quite easy but were emphasis in their own right so i can agree with these
21:27 Mir: but the emphasis on 01:00:124 - increases so slightly
21:27 Mir: that it doesn't have enough contrast to compensate over the long run imho
21:28 09kami: hummm
21:29 09kami: So should change their angle?
21:29 Mir: either that or make the spacing difference way more noticeable
21:30 Mir: 04:46:249 (2,3,4,5,6,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12) - like something similar to this
21:30 Mir: which i have my own issues with but the general idea is this kinda of contrast would make sense
21:35 09kami: add some ds
21:36 Mir: hmm can you send .osu or update so i can see? or send screenshot xD
21:36 09kami: I'm uploading it, but it's stopped
21:37 Mir: 11%?
21:37 09kami: emmmm Wait
21:37 09kami: no .Just suddenly broke the link
21:38 Mir: oo
21:38 09kami: https://puu.sh/xf66g/47b8e0b701.osu
21:38 09kami: well
21:38 09kami: Copy it directly. I'll update it later
21:39 Mir: 01:03:724 (1,2,3,4) - hmm can you lower this more?
21:40 09kami: hummm sure
21:40 Mir: probably 0.8 would work
21:41 Mir: 01:02:374 (11,12,13,14,15,16) - and probably you can lower this too so that "zoooone" at 01:02:824 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12) - gets way more emphasis
21:42 09kami: 01:03:724 (1,2,3,4) - http://puu.sh/xf6fQ/90d5332369.png
21:42 09kami: like this?
21:42 Mir: ooo yeah that looks good
21:43 09kami: 01:00:424 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14,15,16) - 01:01:624 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14,15,16) - I want to keep this increase
21:44 Mir: hmm okay
21:44 09kami: 01:02:824 (1,2,3,4) - These increases are already obvious,.1.4X
21:44 Mir: yeah, true
21:44 09kami: will it be too hard? Because these appear in the first paragraph of Kiai
21:45 Mir: ideally a map should have consistent difficulty so the player knows what they're getting into as soon as the map starts imo
21:45 Mir: increasing the difficulty over time does work and is a viable idea but if you make it too easy at the start and the player just fails later it's kinda
21:45 09kami: ok
21:45 Mir: so introducing such emphasis earlier is fine
21:46 Mir: uh so something else i noticed
21:46 Mir: 01:28:624 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - these are mapped to the guitar right? 01:31:024 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - these seem kinda out of place considering the guitar changes quite a bit
21:47 09kami: yup
21:48 09kami: Here's an obvious switch. I think it's between the vocals and the guitar
21:49 09kami: 01:27:424 (1,2,3,1,2) - vocals
21:49 09kami: 01:28:624 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - guitar
21:49 09kami: 01:29:824 (1,2,3,1,2) - 01:31:024 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - same
21:50 Mir: hmm i see
21:50 Mir: but the "issue" i have with this is that 01:31:024 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - here the guitar is not the same as it was for 01:28:624 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) -
21:50 Mir: emphasis is put on 01:31:474 (4) - and 01:31:774 (6,7) -
21:50 Mir: 01:31:174 (2) - as well to some extent
21:51 Mir: but having them all in the same pattern makes it look and play like01:28:624 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - which is completely different with the guitar cuz it's all normal and constant
21:53 09kami: 01:31:474 (4,5,6,7,8) - Emmmm... u mean to make a change?
21:53 Mir: yup, some kind of indication that the guitar isn't quite the same as it was the first time
21:55 09kami: hummmm if
21:55 09kami: delete 01:31:174 (2,4,6,8) -
21:57 Mir: what would you do after deleting it? o.o
21:57 09kami: White line slider.Increase their length
21:58 09kami: Deliberately ignore some rhythms. Express them in different ways
21:58 Mir: 01:31:474 - 01:31:774 - i wonder about ignoring these though, since there are noticable spikes in the guitar here
21:59 09kami: emmmm....or delete white line slider
22:00 Mir: that would work
22:00 Mir: 01:31:924 - you have a 1/4 stream starting here with drums though, do you want to ignore that too?
22:01 09kami: ok.I give up the idea
22:02 Mir: hmmmm
22:03 Mir: you can do a sliderend stream
22:03 Mir: http://i.imgur.com/rkDcEIt.png probably
22:06 09kami: fix
22:06 Mir: alright cool
22:08 Mir: hmm probably lowering 01:53:374 (1,2,3,4,5,6) - or increasing01:53:824 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14,15,16) - might give some nice contrast
22:08 Mir: spacing-wise
22:09 09kami: but.01:53:374 (1,2,3,4,5,6) - It has been lowered
22:09 09kami: Aren't they obvious enough?
22:10 Mir: 01:02:224 (9,10,11,12,13,14,15,16) - considering you didn't really do that here
22:10 Mir: maybe it's better to actually not decrease it
22:10 Mir: and instead leave it constant, idk
22:11 09kami: Hummm...Then I'll lower it some more
22:12 Mir: which one are you lowering? first kiai or second kiai? x.x
22:13 09kami: 01:53:374 (1,2,3,4,5,6) -
22:13 09kami: this
22:13 Mir: ah okay
22:14 09kami: 01:02:224 (9,10,11,12,13,14,15,16) - emmm
22:14 09kami: What does this mean here?
22:14 Mir: i was pointing out that you didn't lower that for the same reasons as you lowered it for the second kiai
22:15 09kami: oo
22:15 Mir: it might be nice to do it in the first kiai too
22:18 Mir: now here's something interesting, 03:01:924 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14,15,16) - is very possibly 1/3 so why didn't you map it as 1/3 o.o
22:21 09kami: In some similar places, if you follow the guitar, can't map
22:21 09kami: In fact, this is instead to maintain a consistency with the player, and the drums have enough rhythm to support 1/4
22:22 09kami: 1/3 and 1/4 stream frequent switching. Will mislead the player
22:23 09kami: 03:21:424 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,1,2,3,4,1) -
22:23 09kami: like this
22:23 Mir: hmm having tried it out i came up with http://i.imgur.com/CyRDC3H.png
22:24 09kami: 03:21:124 (13,14,15,16,1,2,3,4,5) -
22:24 Mir: or something
22:25 09kami: hummmm i try
22:30 09kami: https://puu.sh/xf8ky/824bfb52e7.png
22:30 09kami: like this?
22:31 Mir: hmm
22:32 Mir: how about making 03:02:224 - a 2/3 slider
22:32 Mir: since there's nothing on 03:02:324 - and 03:02:424 - lands after a reverse so it kinda loses emphasis
22:34 09kami: fix
22:35 Mir: 03:10:624 (1,2,3,4,5,6,1,2,3,4,5,6,1,2,3,4,5) - looking at this hmm you used quite a few direction changes but
22:35 Mir: 03:11:974 (1,2,3,4,5,6,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1) - as a climactic stream this doesn't use any
22:35 Mir: kinda weird not emphasizing the last strong stream as much as the previous one imo
22:40 09kami: I really don't want to change this place .But I'm not quite sure how to explain the process .Let me see how to express it
22:40 Mir: okay
22:42 09kami: http://puu.sh/xf8Ol/75d4dfdb30.jpg
22:42 09kami: This paragraph is like a vase. Although the front is very winding, you only need to finish flow to finish it
22:42 Mir: hmm
22:43 09kami: But there's something different, because it's a natural feeling. You can think it's just because I think he's changed in 03:11:824 (5)
22:43 Mir: in keeping with that idea
22:43 Mir: how about instead of changing direction, increase the spacing?
22:44 09kami: If all the places are trimmed together, I lose a special feeling. I know how to express it
22:45 Mir: something like this probably http://i.imgur.com/Cu1OilN.png
22:45 Mir: you can probably make it look nicer than me though x.x
22:45 Mir: so with the spacing increase there's still emphasis while still keeping the direction
22:46 09kami: But it does not increase the spacing to the feeling
22:46 09kami: So I used 03:11:824 (5) - to distinguish them
22:47 Mir: hmmm
22:47 09kami: 03:12:424 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4) -
22:47 09kami: add this?
22:47 Mir: mhm, add spacing to that
22:47 Mir: instead of changing how it flows at all
22:48 09kami: but 03:11:974 (1,2,3,4,5,6) - this
22:48 09kami: 1.0
22:48 09kami: 03:12:424 (1,2,3,4) - this
22:48 09kami: 1.2
22:48 Mir: 03:12:424 (1,2,3,4) - 1.2 03:12:724 (1,2,3,4) - 1.4
22:48 Mir: possibly
22:49 09kami: emmm
22:49 09kami: 03:12:724 (1,2,3,4) - 1.3Isn't it high enough?
22:50 Mir: contrast is lacking there imo
22:50 09kami: ok i do
22:51 09kami: done
22:51 Mir: 03:53:524 (1,2,1) - eeeeee
22:52 Mir: since you removed the other one, having this one would be too unexpected imo
22:53 09kami: hummm....Here's kencho's advice
22:53 09kami: 03:12:724 (1,2,3,4) - and
22:53 09kami: http://puu.sh/xf9mW/3ae0060113.png
22:53 Mir: that could work too, it seems like the spacing increase is more obvious that way as well
22:54 Mir: but we both kind had the same idea there so yeah xD
22:54 09kami: 03:53:824 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,1) - Here, if follow the guitar, can't map
22:55 09kami: Because some are not at fixed rhythm.
22:55 09kami: on
22:57 Mir: nono im not saying follow the guitar
22:57 Mir: im saying 03:53:749 (2,1) - this stack is unexpected
22:59 Mir: how about trying http://i.imgur.com/kgDqeOJ.png
22:59 Mir: 03:55:024 (1,2) - so it's similar to this
23:03 09kami: http://puu.sh/xf9RS/be7cf68bb1.png
23:03 Mir: yeah that works too lol
23:05 Mir: 04:47:824 (5,6,7,8) - for this one i find it kind of strange that the switch in guitar gets the lowest spacing o.o
23:05 Mir: i feel like it should all be the same spacing
23:07 09kami: the end is in this place
23:08 09kami: 04:47:524 (1) -
23:08 09kami: 04:47:524 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - It's a steady process
23:09 Mir: mm i see but 04:47:824 (5) - this note in particular stands out a lot but there isn't much emphasis on it
23:10 09kami: hummm..So that's where it begins?
23:10 Mir: at least my interpretation of it is
23:11 Mir: 04:47:524 (1,2,3,4) - it declines here
23:11 Mir: and starts up here 04:47:824 (5,6,7,8,1) -
23:11 Mir: so essentially swapping where you decrease the spacing with where you increase it would make more sense to me
23:12 09kami: fix
23:13 Mir: 04:49:624 (1) - REALLY nazi but can you move this like 5 px up lol
23:13 Mir: so it has similar distance with 04:49:774 (2,5) -
23:13 Mir: other than that i have nothing else to point out so, update?
23:14 09kami: suer
23:14 09kami: sure
23:21 09kami: done
23:26 Mir: yeah this looks much much better
23:26 09kami: :w: thx for loooooong irc
23:27 Mir: no problem hehe
23:27 Mir: i'll summarize and post on thread
23:27 09kami: can u post to map?
23:27 Mir: mhm
Okay essentially we discussed for about 3 hours and 30 mins about various concerns brought up by the community + some of my own and adjusted the following:
- Stream emphasis consistency through kiais and overall in the map. While 09kami prefers to have differences between kiais, we managed to compromise in using spacing changes as a unified form of emphasis throughout all 3 kiais. We discussed the usage of more direction changes for emphasis and increasing spacing in order to establish contrast in order to provide more clear emphasis.
- The stacked 1/2 into 1/4 stream that fieryrage made a fiery rage post about (I'm not sorry) was removed in all instances. It is no longer a concept in the map.
- The 1/3 guitar stream in the solo is now mapped with 1/3.
- Differentiation between 01:28:624 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - and 01:31:024 (1,2,3,4,5,6,1) - has now been adjusted. They both are no longer the same pattern for different sounds.
- Various minor NC changes, and a pixel-fix somewhere at the end.
Hopefully these changes helped the map and polished it up to a more acceptable state for the concerned parties!
01:56:224 (1) - make this one a bit louder pls, it's barely audible and stands out so much in the song. ~50% would be nice
02:53:524 (13) - turn should probably be on 02:53:449 - to consistent with emphasis on 02:51:949 (8,12) - ?
04:19:024 - can you decrease volume in 5% steps instead of 10% ones here? it's getting too quiet too fast imo, making it quite awkward to play
still not really liking the usage of hihat samples, but I guess it's acceptable now and better than the old electronic drums
overall the map seems much better now, so feel free to continue with the ranking process
02:53:524 (13) - turn should probably be on 02:53:449 - to consistent with emphasis on 02:51:949 (8,12) - ?
04:19:024 - can you decrease volume in 5% steps instead of 10% ones here? it's getting too quiet too fast imo, making it quite awkward to play
still not really liking the usage of hihat samples, but I guess it's acceptable now and better than the old electronic drums
overall the map seems much better now, so feel free to continue with the ranking process
Topic Starter
thx.all doneLasse wrote:
01:56:224 (1) - make this one a bit louder pls, it's barely audible and stands out so much in the song. ~50% would be nice
fix
02:53:524 (13) - turn should probably be on 02:53:449 - to consistent with emphasis on 02:51:949 (8,12) - ?
fix
04:19:024 - can you decrease volume in 5% steps instead of 10% ones here? it's getting too quiet too fast imo, making it quite awkward to play
fix
still not really liking the usage of hihat samples, but I guess it's acceptable now and better than the old electronic drums
overall the map seems much better now, so feel free to continue with the ranking process
As requested.
- 01:53:899 (2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12) - fix that shape, take the idea from my first modpost. Try to make something like
- 01:31:174 (2,3,4) - there can be a higher distance between these 1/2 sliders to make them played better, they play easier compared to the other patterns concerning the distance. The same idea goes for 04:40:474 (1,2,3) -
01:19:324 (2) - you forgot hitsound here
01:54:949 (16,8) - personal issue for me at these curves since they're quite difficult to play when the space streams dont align on the downbeat
02:19:324 (3) - whistle here
02:22:024 (2) - and here too (sounds a lot better imo), also to keep it consistent since its added here 02:24:424 (1) -
02:26:824 (5) - also over here and beyond it seems to switch up the placement of whistle hitsounds, im unsure why, maybe keep it consistent?
03:02:224 (2) - this note ends on red tick, not 1/3 purple
03:05:224 (1) - make sliderend clickable pls
04:10:399 (14) - this curve makes this stream extremely difficult to hit, maybe try moving 04:10:474 (15) - up by a little
04:18:424 (1) - blue and red tick after this note has drums that arent mapped, is this intentional?
04:30:724 (1) - 04:35:524 (1) - these ncs seem very inconsistent throughout the song, such as areas like this 01:37:924 (5) - and this 01:42:724 (1) -, im sure there are more but i lost track
feels a lot better when playing now
01:54:949 (16,8) - personal issue for me at these curves since they're quite difficult to play when the space streams dont align on the downbeat
02:19:324 (3) - whistle here
02:22:024 (2) - and here too (sounds a lot better imo), also to keep it consistent since its added here 02:24:424 (1) -
02:26:824 (5) - also over here and beyond it seems to switch up the placement of whistle hitsounds, im unsure why, maybe keep it consistent?
03:02:224 (2) - this note ends on red tick, not 1/3 purple
03:05:224 (1) - make sliderend clickable pls
04:10:399 (14) - this curve makes this stream extremely difficult to hit, maybe try moving 04:10:474 (15) - up by a little
04:18:424 (1) - blue and red tick after this note has drums that arent mapped, is this intentional?
04:30:724 (1) - 04:35:524 (1) - these ncs seem very inconsistent throughout the song, such as areas like this 01:37:924 (5) - and this 01:42:724 (1) -, im sure there are more but i lost track
feels a lot better when playing now
Topic Starter
thxCherry Blossom wrote:
As requested.fix
- 01:53:899 (2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12) - fix that shape, take the idea from my first modpost. Try to make something like
fix- 01:31:174 (2,3,4) - there can be a higher distance between these 1/2 sliders to make them played better, they play easier compared to the other patterns concerning the distance. The same idea goes for 04:40:474 (1,2,3) -
Topic Starter
thx modidke wrote:
01:19:324 (2) - you forgot hitsound here fix
01:54:949 (16,8) - personal issue for me at these curves since they're quite difficult to play when the space streams dont align on the downbeat emmm...no
02:19:324 (3) - whistle here hummmm...no because 02:19:774 (4) - is whistle. 02:19:324 (3) - adding whistle feels a little strange
02:22:024 (2) - and here too (sounds a lot better imo), also to keep it consistent since its added here 02:24:424 (1) - 02:22:624 (1) - fix for whistle
02:26:824 (5) - also over here and beyond it seems to switch up the placement of whistle hitsounds, im unsure why, maybe keep it consistent?
hummm...no Because the song itself has a drum sound in this place
03:02:224 (2) - this note ends on red tick, not 1/3 purple no 03:02:424 - there was a distinct voice .03:02:374 - but it's fuzzy here
03:05:224 (1) - make sliderend clickable pls fix
04:10:399 (14) - this curve makes this stream extremely difficult to hit, maybe try moving 04:10:474 (15) - up by a little fix
04:18:424 (1) - blue and red tick after this note has drums that arent mapped, is this intentional? yup. this is to create a sense of pause. but more of the reason is that guitar sounds are the most important sound
04:30:724 (1) - 04:35:524 (1) - these ncs seem very inconsistent throughout the song, such as areas like this 01:37:924 (5) - and this 01:42:724 (1) -, im sure there are more but i lost track
fix. These places are largely due to differences in voices, so NC
feels a lot better when playing now
irc mod
Looks good now21:47 Kencho: hi
21:48 09kami: !y
21:48 Kencho: 没意外
21:48 09kami: 应该可以
21:48 *Kencho is editing [https://osu.ppy.sh/b/1007522 DragonForce - Extraction Zone [Legend]]
21:49 Kencho: 我要随便irc看看
21:49 09kami: 要重新传你一份吗
21:49 Kencho: 你没更新吗
21:49 09kami: normal那组音效删了
21:49 Kencho: 我这重新下载的
21:49 09kami: 更新了
21:49 Kencho: 没有normal
21:49 09kami: 可以
21:51 Kencho: 00:21:574 (5) - ctrl+G好像好点
21:51 09kami: fix
21:53 Kencho: 01:08:074 (3) - 这个我怎么觉得要删掉呢
21:53 Kencho: 还有01:10:474 (3) -
21:54 Kencho: 01:05:674 - 主要是你这里没加1/4
21:54 Kencho: 我觉得三个地方都加或者三个都不加
21:54 09kami: 01:05:674 - 那干脆在这加一个不就行了
21:55 Kencho: 01:10:474 (3,4) - 然后是这个
21:55 Kencho: 3和4的位置换一下
21:55 Kencho: 因为你前面01:07:924 (2,3) - 是23叠
21:55 Kencho: 后面是24叠
21:57 Kencho: 然后这个01:31:174 (2) - 改成两个圆圈打击感比较好，个人感觉不适合用滑条
21:58 09kami: fix
21:59 Kencho: 01:44:224 (1,2,3) - 这个pattern怪难看的，不知道怎么说
22:00 Kencho: 就是13滑条overlap有点难受
22:01 Kencho: http://osu.ppy.sh/ss/8908263
22:01 Kencho: 就是这样如何
22:01 09kami: 改成我发群里那个了
22:02 Kencho: 直接改了形状啊
22:02 Kencho: 好吧
22:02 09kami: 嗯
22:03 Kencho: 02:55:924 (3) - NC?
22:04 09kami: 1
22:06 Kencho: 后面还行
22:06 Kencho: 好
22:06 Kencho: 更新吧
22:07 09kami: 好
22:08 09kami: ok
22:08 09kami: 等等
22:08 09kami: 你看
22:08 Kencho: ？
22:08 09kami: 能不能再删几个note
22:08 09kami: 弄到2017
22:08 Kencho: 你的风格来说应该好弄
22:09 Kencho: 你先更新一下
22:09 09kami: 算了 好麻烦
22:09 09kami: 更新完了
22:10 Kencho: 00:21:574 (5) - 比如说这个地方，你后面都用了圈，你可以都改成滑条
22:10 Kencho: 00:30:874 (4,1,2,1,2) -
22:11 Kencho: 有点麻烦
22:11 Kencho: 那你要改吗
22:11 09kami: 00:22:624 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7) - 这里改成两个滑条
22:11 Kencho: 噢
22:11 Kencho: 你喜欢
22:12 09kami: 00:22:174 (2,3,4,5,6) - 这里也是
22:12 09kami: emmm
22:12 09kami: 算了 到时又被人拿出来说
22:12 Kencho: 2026年有人会记得的
22:12 Kencho: xixi
22:13 09kami: 那个地方改成4个滑条后
22:13 09kami: 2018.
22:13 Kencho: 那随便把两个圈换成话题
22:13 Kencho: 滑条
22:16 09kami: 把这里改成一个滑条
22:16 09kami: 01:33:124 (5,6) -
22:17 09kami: 我更新你看看？
22:17 Kencho: 好
22:18 09kami: 更新完了
22:20 Kencho: 可以
22:20 Kencho: 那就这样
22:20 09kami: 那 没毛病了
01:31:324 (3,4,5) - those hitsounds on the tail are not the best. If they require such strong hitsounding why are they not clickable.. https://osu.ppy.sh/ss/8916976
05:01:324 (1) - doesn't this end at 05:02:074 - instead in the song?
05:01:324 (1) - doesn't this end at 05:02:074 - instead in the song?
Topic Starter
MrSergio wrote:
01:31:324 (3,4,5) - those hitsounds on the tail are not the best. If they require such strong hitsounding why are they not clickable.. https://osu.ppy.sh/ss/8916976
fix
05:01:324 (1) - doesn't this end at 05:02:074 - instead in the song?
fix
Will ignoring the hate comments about me on twitter will make any difference, I wonder 
gratz
btw, in all the other dragonforce maps that have cs5 or keep to the tradition, they all have slider tick rate 2 i believe
intentional to keep it as 1?
intentional to keep it as 1?
00:19:624 (9) - I feel like the NC should be here rather than 00:19:924 (1) - just like how you NC'd in the other part such as 00:32:824 (1) -
02:39:424 (1) - Don't you think this slider should end at the white tick instead of the blue tick? I don't think there's a sound ending on the white tick, but rather on the white tick.
02:42:424 (9) - I would NC this part of the stream consdering you NC'd 02:43:024 (1) -
03:56:824 (9) - ^ I'd say the same thing here (03:57:424 (1) - as you NC'd this)
Sorry, it's not really a big mod, I'm not a very experienced mapper, but I hope this might somewhat still be helpful, but nice map, good luck.
02:39:424 (1) - Don't you think this slider should end at the white tick instead of the blue tick? I don't think there's a sound ending on the white tick, but rather on the white tick.
02:42:424 (9) - I would NC this part of the stream consdering you NC'd 02:43:024 (1) -
03:56:824 (9) - ^ I'd say the same thing here (03:57:424 (1) - as you NC'd this)
Sorry, it's not really a big mod, I'm not a very experienced mapper, but I hope this might somewhat still be helpful, but nice map, good luck.
Mod, because i feel like you need fix something untill it will be ranked and i think it will be helpful
00:06:349 (16,1) - make the sharp angle of stream on white tick with new combo, because sharp angles are important part of streams so they sohuld be white ticks with new combo
00:07:549 (16,1) - same here
00:08:749 (16,1) - same
00:45:424 (5) - move 5 a bit closer to 6, it will make spacing will looks smoother
01:03:949 (4) - same
01:09:124 (3) - maybe nc?
01:36:799 (10) - move it a bit to 1, to make spacing smoother
01:40:774 (5,6,1) - it looks so wierd so move 01:40:474 (1,2,3,4,5,6) - up to make sharp angle like this 01:41:599 (6) - move to 1 to make spacing smoother
01:51:349 (4) - same
01:53:749 (6) - same
01:54:949 (16,1) - sharp angle at end of stream on white tick with new combo
01:55:549 (8,1) - same
02:35:824 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - change stream to 1/8 reverse sliders on strong sounds because 1/8 sounds are not that loud and important, so they should be repeats of sliders
02:51:424 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14,15,16,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14,15,16,1) - all sharp angles on white ticks, move it to white pls
03:04:549 (8,1) - 1 should be at low spacing like 7-8 cuz it's end of this line, where spacing becoming lower and lower like you done it here 04:30:799 (2,1) 03:18:574 (8) - nc this, remove nc at 03:19:024 (1) -
03:18:874 (10,2) - make them higher and at same high
03:22:324 (1,2,3,4,1) - increase spacing on every note a bit, cuz sound getting higher
03:38:524 (1,2,3,4,5,1,2,3,4,1,2,3) - nerf jumps, there is not such powerful sound
03:57:349 (16,1) - sharp angle on white tick with new combo
04:10:624 (1) - after most spaced stream in map slider is 1.1x speed, player will move cursor so fast because large spacing and prob choke cuz slider is not fast enough, make it 1.5x atleast and sound is still high
04:13:624 (1) - why you nced this slider but don't nced 04:14:824 (5) - ?
04:36:499 (6,7,8,1) - it's not sharp enough for sharp angle, but too sharp for smooth stream lul
04:59:974 (1,2,3,4,5) - spacing changes a lot but sound is same
Also you done sharp angles on white ticks with nc many times, so i think you understand that they should be at them
I tried my best
00:06:349 (16,1) - make the sharp angle of stream on white tick with new combo, because sharp angles are important part of streams so they sohuld be white ticks with new combo
00:07:549 (16,1) - same here
00:08:749 (16,1) - same
00:45:424 (5) - move 5 a bit closer to 6, it will make spacing will looks smoother
01:03:949 (4) - same
01:09:124 (3) - maybe nc?
01:36:799 (10) - move it a bit to 1, to make spacing smoother
01:40:774 (5,6,1) - it looks so wierd so move 01:40:474 (1,2,3,4,5,6) - up to make sharp angle like this 01:41:599 (6) - move to 1 to make spacing smoother
01:51:349 (4) - same
01:53:749 (6) - same
01:54:949 (16,1) - sharp angle at end of stream on white tick with new combo
01:55:549 (8,1) - same
02:35:824 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - change stream to 1/8 reverse sliders on strong sounds because 1/8 sounds are not that loud and important, so they should be repeats of sliders
02:51:424 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14,15,16,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14,15,16,1) - all sharp angles on white ticks, move it to white pls
03:04:549 (8,1) - 1 should be at low spacing like 7-8 cuz it's end of this line, where spacing becoming lower and lower like you done it here 04:30:799 (2,1) 03:18:574 (8) - nc this, remove nc at 03:19:024 (1) -
03:18:874 (10,2) - make them higher and at same high
03:22:324 (1,2,3,4,1) - increase spacing on every note a bit, cuz sound getting higher
03:38:524 (1,2,3,4,5,1,2,3,4,1,2,3) - nerf jumps, there is not such powerful sound
03:57:349 (16,1) - sharp angle on white tick with new combo
04:10:624 (1) - after most spaced stream in map slider is 1.1x speed, player will move cursor so fast because large spacing and prob choke cuz slider is not fast enough, make it 1.5x atleast and sound is still high
04:13:624 (1) - why you nced this slider but don't nced 04:14:824 (5) - ?
04:36:499 (6,7,8,1) - it's not sharp enough for sharp angle, but too sharp for smooth stream lul
04:59:974 (1,2,3,4,5) - spacing changes a lot but sound is same
Also you done sharp angles on white ticks with nc many times, so i think you understand that they should be at them
I tried my best
Topic Starter
Broly wrote:
00:19:624 (9) - I feel like the NC should be here rather than 00:19:924 (1) - just like how you NC'd in the other part such as 00:32:824 (1) -
00: 32: 824 ( 1 ) - how do you see that they want to keep the same NC? Why don't you say 00: 30: 124 ( 5 ) - save the same?or 00:28:024 (7) - ?00:17:224 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9) - 00:18:424 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9) - 00:19:924 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9) - I don't want to say too much.
02:39:424 (1) - Don't you think this slider should end at the white tick instead of the blue tick? I don't think there's a sound ending on the white tick, but rather on the white tick.
This method of using the slider to express sound is not very difficult to see.02:39:949 - and, according to what you want to say. it should be here.but obviously. I didn't choose to stay here.02:40:849 - If you can understand the voice here
02:42:424 (9) - I would NC this part of the stream consdering you NC'd 02:43:024 (1) -
03:56:824 (9) - ^ I'd say the same thing here (03:57:424 (1) - as you NC'd this)
no, why do I do this? This is not a necessary NC
Sorry, it's not really a big mod, I'm not a very experienced mapper, but I hope this might somewhat still be helpful, but nice map, good luck.
I don't think it's good for this map.
Topic Starter
Tukan4ik wrote:
Mod, because i feel like you need fix something untill it will be ranked and i think it will be helpful
00:06:349 (16,1) - make the sharp angle of stream on white tick with new combo, because sharp angles are important part of streams so they sohuld be white ticks with new combo
00:07:549 (16,1) - same here
00:08:749 (16,1) - same
？？？？？？？？？？？？？？？？？？？？？？？This guy says. need to add NC on the blue line?
are you sure. do you have a basic understanding of mapping?
00:45:424 (5) - move 5 a bit closer to 6, it will make spacing will looks smoother no
01:03:949 (4) - same no
01:09:124 (3) - maybe nc? why say mabey?Do you have enough reason to let me in here NC?
01:13:924 (3,4,5,6,7,8) - 04:52:924 (3,4,5,6,7,8) - 04:57:724 (3,4,5,6,7,8) - If you have reason to let all of these are NC.
01:36:799 (10) - move it a bit to 1, to make spacing smoother no. smoother.But it does not apply here. here is a force of strength.The contrast between the extreme deceleration and acceleration will be expressed by the power of 01: 36: 874 (1)
01:40:774 (5,6,1) - it looks so wierd so move 01:40:474 (1,2,3,4,5,6) - up to make sharp angle like this same
01:41:599 (6) - move to 1 to make spacing smoother same
01:51:349 (4) - same no
01:53:749 (6) - same no
01:54:949 (16,1) - sharp angle at end of stream on white tick with new combo no
01:55:549 (8,1) - same no
02:35:824 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - change stream to 1/8 reverse sliders on strong sounds because 1/8 sounds are not that loud and important, so they should be repeats of sliders
Do you know this is 100 BPM?What is the difference between the sliders and the present? Just because you think it's 1 / 8 of all that looks difficult.
02:51:424 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14,15,16,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14,15,16,1) - all sharp angles on white ticks, move it to white pls
ok. from this mod. I've found that you don't see the mod at all. there's no suggestion to make a good map of the map.All of your opinions. just for yourself. not for the map. you just make yourself feel more comfortable.Because many places. I believe in the previous mod. I have put forward very, very, very detailed views and views.But you don't pay attention to them. you just put it out. and there are some very strange ideas. for example. you think you should add NC on the blue line. I think this is the most basic mapping knowledge. but you don't understand.so.
”Mod, because i feel like you need fix something untill it will be ranked and i think it will be helpful“
What role do you put in this sentence? Is it a mapper? no. as a player ? I don't think your rank can experience this map very well.Like I said before. I don't compromise for everyone.Since you don't care about the previous discussion. why do you want to raise these questions now?Just to let me explain it again?
03:04:549 (8,1) - 1 should be at low spacing like 7-8 cuz it's end of this line, where spacing becoming lower and lower like you done it here 04:30:799 (2,1) I believe in the details of my discussions with mir. so . no
03:18:574 (8) - nc this, remove nc at 03:19:024 (1) -
??????????????????????????03:17:824 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10) - 03:19:024 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10) - Look here. say your point. you're just saying let me do it. but there's no reason. these words look like " I think"
03:18:874 (10,2) - make them higher and at same high
wt.......Are you really writing a better mod for this map?
03:22:324 (1,2,3,4,1) - increase spacing on every note a bit, cuz sound getting higher no. you think you need to smooth, why do you suddenly increase the spacing here? Doesn't this view go against your point of view?
03:38:524 (1,2,3,4,5,1,2,3,4,1,2,3) - nerf jumps, there is not such powerful sound
???????????????????????????????????????????????????? no. are you joking? you feel is not obvious . really?
03:57:349 (16,1) - sharp angle on white tick with new combo same. no
04:10:624 (1) - after most spaced stream in map slider is 1.1x speed, player will move cursor so fast because large spacing and prob choke cuz slider is not fast enough, make it 1.5x atleast and sound is still high no.I don't recognize that when people play here, they can't even grasp the speed.
04:13:624 (1) - why you nced this slider but don't nced 04:14:824 (5) - ? no
04:36:499 (6,7,8,1) - it's not sharp enough for sharp angle, but too sharp for smooth stream lul
no
04:59:974 (1,2,3,4,5) - spacing changes a lot but sound is same
no
Also you done sharp angles on white ticks with nc many times, so i think you understand that they should be at them
I tried my best
I can't agree with you. are you sure you did your best? You don't even pay attention to this map before. you just occasionally see it. say something you think. I don't think your question can help me, but I think . when you put forward a mod . it's best to be responsible for your own statements . because it's not just about a mod . when some wrong comments come up . it makes people question the reason why you put this mod.
pls no bully kami
Just because someone with not-so-much experience modded your map it doesn't mean you can just shit on them and actually question if they really did their best...
Interesting. I didn't know 1/8 100 bpm was 100 bpm.09kami wrote:
Tukan4ik wrote:
02:35:824 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - change stream to 1/8 reverse sliders on strong sounds because 1/8 sounds are not that loud and important, so they should be repeats of sliders
Do you know this is 100 BPM?What is the difference between the sliders and the present? Just because you think it's 1 / 8 of all that looks difficult.
That wasn't the implication. The implication was 1/8 on 100 is not hard, it only looks hard because it's 1/8 when it's the same as all the other 200bpm streams that were used earlier.F1r3tar wrote:
Interesting. I didn't know 1/8 100 bpm was 100 bpm.09kami wrote:
Do you know this is 100 BPM?What is the difference between the sliders and the present? Just because you think it's 1 / 8 of all that looks difficult.
1/8 100 = 1/4 200
god of algebra confirmed?Surono wrote:
1/8 100 = 1/4 200
@09kami
That's not how you reply to mods + I already told you to edit your own posts instead of making a double post.
Give a read to https://osu.ppy.sh/help/wiki/Ranking_Cr ... of_Conduct
@everyone
Refrain from straying away from the topic, you guys know you should be talking about the map instead of fueling any potential misbehaviour.
Also please report, the Code of Conduct is not just something we made up for show, it's a set of rules which should be respected.
That's not how you reply to mods + I already told you to edit your own posts instead of making a double post.
Give a read to https://osu.ppy.sh/help/wiki/Ranking_Cr ... of_Conduct
@everyone
Refrain from straying away from the topic, you guys know you should be talking about the map instead of fueling any potential misbehaviour.
Also please report, the Code of Conduct is not just something we made up for show, it's a set of rules which should be respected.
I have a little suggestion, I don't really know if it's worth to DQ the map for this, but that would be cool to have your point of view, cause I'm questioning about it.
00:45:124 (1) - You make a good thing by using DS changes during stream to emphasize the song, and that fit pretty well. But there is some places where there was the same kind of "sound" or "melody", where you didn't make it. For instance here: 00:51:874 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14) - it just felt weird to me, cause you made it previously, and this time, there is no DS changes.
00:47:074 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - Same for here, I think it's because there is a curved shape, so it gives the feel like they are more spaced than previously, but when I look at it, those two notes 00:47:224 (3,7) - are at two different sides of the stream, so they're filling two different types of beats, but they're at the same distance from the last note.
00:54:274 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,1) - To me it's more a personnal taste, but I don't agree with the fact that the DS is reduced on the end of the stream, cause it feels like the word "love" is stronger than the rest of the stream, so that would make more sense if there is a 1.2x distance snap here, like you did previously, instead of a 1.0x.
00:58:024 (1,2) - Wouldn't be better to play to just swap the place of those two notes? I think that in matter of flow, it might not be enjoyable to play. The flow here is pretty sharp, and it wouldn't be pleasant to having a sharp turn here while having no real strong beat. (If the problem is the distance snap, cause this note: 00:58:024 (1) - is distanced by 1/4 gap, then just move a bit the notes to make it better.)
01:38:749 (10,11,12,13,14) - I would recommend you to slow the DS on the end of this stream to emphasize well the song, plus to be consistant with that part: 01:37:624 (1,2,3,4,1) - where you added a DS changes for the same kind of sound.
That's all I can say. Beside the DS on stream, I think the map is good.
00:45:124 (1) - You make a good thing by using DS changes during stream to emphasize the song, and that fit pretty well. But there is some places where there was the same kind of "sound" or "melody", where you didn't make it. For instance here: 00:51:874 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14) - it just felt weird to me, cause you made it previously, and this time, there is no DS changes.
00:47:074 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - Same for here, I think it's because there is a curved shape, so it gives the feel like they are more spaced than previously, but when I look at it, those two notes 00:47:224 (3,7) - are at two different sides of the stream, so they're filling two different types of beats, but they're at the same distance from the last note.
00:54:274 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,1) - To me it's more a personnal taste, but I don't agree with the fact that the DS is reduced on the end of the stream, cause it feels like the word "love" is stronger than the rest of the stream, so that would make more sense if there is a 1.2x distance snap here, like you did previously, instead of a 1.0x.
00:58:024 (1,2) - Wouldn't be better to play to just swap the place of those two notes? I think that in matter of flow, it might not be enjoyable to play. The flow here is pretty sharp, and it wouldn't be pleasant to having a sharp turn here while having no real strong beat. (If the problem is the distance snap, cause this note: 00:58:024 (1) - is distanced by 1/4 gap, then just move a bit the notes to make it better.)
01:38:749 (10,11,12,13,14) - I would recommend you to slow the DS on the end of this stream to emphasize well the song, plus to be consistant with that part: 01:37:624 (1,2,3,4,1) - where you added a DS changes for the same kind of sound.
That's all I can say. Beside the DS on stream, I think the map is good.
Topic Starter
MrSergio wrote:
@09kami
That's not how you reply to mods + I already told you to edit your own posts instead of making a double post.
Give a read to https://osu.ppy.sh/help/wiki/Ranking_Cr ... of_Conduct
@everyone
Refrain from straying away from the topic, you guys know you should be talking about the map instead of fueling any potential misbehaviour.
Also please report, the Code of Conduct is not just something we made up for show, it's a set of rules which should be respected.
umm ...I'm sorry. because I need to build a text to translate each mod., it would be confusing for me to put multiple mod together ..I will pay more attention to this later.
thx u proposalPachiru wrote:
I have a little suggestion, I don't really know if it's worth to DQ the map for this, but that would be cool to have your point of view, cause I'm questioning about it.
00:45:124 (1) - You make a good thing by using DS changes during stream to emphasize the song, and that fit pretty well. But there is some places where there was the same kind of "sound" or "melody", where you didn't make it. For instance here: 00:51:874 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14) - it just felt weird to me, cause you made it previously, and this time, there is no DS changes.
00:51:874 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14) - emmmm..just 00:50:674 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10) - and 00:51:424 (1,2,1) - slider .It's also a variation of spacing. 00:54:274 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,1) - actually, I was here with an abbreviated spacing of stream., but because of MOD., I had to compromise
00:47:074 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - Same for here, I think it's because there is a curved shape, so it gives the feel like they are more spaced than previously, but when I look at it, those two notes 00:47:224 (3,7) - are at two different sides of the stream, so they're filling two different types of beats, but they're at the same distance from the last note.
emmm...I did not understand this passage .but 00:47:074 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - just because flow zone 。02:05:824 (1) - u mean you should change to such a stream?
00:54:274 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,1) - To me it's more a personnal taste, but I don't agree with the fact that the DS is reduced on the end of the stream, cause it feels like the word "love" is stronger than the rest of the stream, so that would make more sense if there is a 1.2x distance snap here, like you did previously, instead of a 1.0x.
I know!! because I had a similar idea with you before, but I think it should shorten the DS. to about 0.75, but in the next mod, I compromised the place
00:58:024 (1,2) - Wouldn't be better to play to just swap the place of those two notes? I think that in matter of flow, it might not be enjoyable to play. The flow here is pretty sharp, and it wouldn't be pleasant to having a sharp turn here while having no real strong beat. (If the problem is the distance snap, cause this note: 00:58:024 (1) - is distanced by 1/4 gap, then just move a bit the notes to make it better.)
hummm...I don't deny your idea. but proper reverse flow. may add a little extra flavor .u can take my remark as an excuse
01:38:749 (10,11,12,13,14) - I would recommend you to slow the DS on the end of this stream to emphasize well the song, plus to be consistant with that part: 01:37:624 (1,2,3,4,1) - where you added a DS changes for the same kind of sound.
this some part like 01:42:874 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14,1) - It was designed on purpose .
That's all I can say. Beside the DS on stream, I think the map is good.
I was just suggesting you to add some DS diversity here like you did previously, but don't worry it's still playable well, I just think that it could've make it more representative of the song, but if you prefer to keep it like this, then let's keep itPachiru wrote:
00:47:074 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - Same for here, I think it's because there is a curved shape, so it gives the feel like they are more spaced than previously, but when I look at it, those two notes 00:47:224 (3,7) - are at two different sides of the stream, so they're filling two different types of beats, but they're at the same distance from the last note.
emmm...I did not understand this passage .but 00:47:074 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - just because flow zone 。02:05:824 (1) - u mean you should change to such a stream?