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DragonForce - Extraction Zone

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zigizigiefe
Congratz for another ranked DF ^^
fieryrage
ok i have to make a separate post for this

  • 1) why are your finish hitsounds overused in the kiais? it makes playing this song without your hitsounds feel like complete ass because all i can hear is just "pop pop pop pop" where there should be vocals and, you know, not finishes

    2) on the topic of hitsounds, WHY are the whistles substitute clap hitsounds? what is even the purpose of doing that, just make them actual whistles or some other sound besides a snare

    3) why do your streams in the kiai follow vocals at some points in terms of spacing changes but then go to drums like 01:01:624 (1) - here during this entire stream?

    4) what's wrong with your nc's like 00:51:724 (1,1) - this literally screams unpolished

    5) 00:55:624 (1,2,3,4,5) - where is the emphasis on literally any of these patterns? because 00:57:124 (1,2,3,4) - you seem 00:58:024 (1,2,3,4,5) - to be 00:59:524 (2,3,4,5,6,7) - changing 01:07:624 (1,2) - emphasis 01:19:024 (1,2,3,4) - quite 01:20:524 (2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - a 01:22:324 (1,2,3,4,5) - lot

    6) 01:19:924 (6,7,8,9) - this is not straight, unpolished, although this is more of a minor thing anyway

    7) 01:22:624 (4) - nc every downbeat but then this isn't? what?

    8) 01:28:624 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - this blatantly ignores rhythm for no reason, same thing with the next pattern, you could be following vocals or guitar here but it's just 1/4 spam???

    9) 02:15:424 (1) - what the absolute fuck is this

    10) 02:25:024 (1) - hitsounds randomly get 30% louder here??

    11) 02:28:024 (2,3) - 02:29:224 (2,3) - these are the same distance but different gaps in rhythm, why?

    12) 02:41:824 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14,15,16,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - don't you think this is a TINY bit overmapped considering the part before it?

    12) 02:45:274 (4,1) - why? no, like, genuinely, why? how do you imagine this as a playable pattern? you're introducing a concept like this 3 minutes into the map, you are LITERALLY asking for people to break here

    13) 02:51:424 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14,15,16) - i've legitimately seen more structured stream patterns from unranked mappers, like 02:51:724 (5) - why isn't the direction change on the white ticks? it shouldn't be on the blue ticks, that ignores rhythm entirely

    14) 02:55:624 (1,2,3) - yeah, no, please actually stop doing this, your map is unplayable at this point
not to mention the fact that the 100 bpm sections aren't even warranted considering the only things mapped in those sections are spinners, it should be a consistent 200 bpm throughout the entire song

i seriously can't be bothered to look at this map more, it's not ready for ranking at all. the fact this even was considered as anything near a rankable map basically just proves the existence of a double-standard in the mapping community, as if it weren't proven already by monstrata being able to rank literally fucking anything

why did this get through with like 10 mods it so very clearly needs a LOT more than that?
idke
at this point, its not about aesthetics, its about playability.

half of the map's streams are so inconsistent with itself, turning on note 16 or the downbeat on 1, with no patterns with switching or anything, purely random.

not to mention, this map is actually very unbalanced in many parts with sections that dont deserve 7 star space streams, and parts that do deserve those spikes in difficulty. if you wanted to try so hard to keep the tradition of dragonforce songs, you shouldve known that harder streams are supposed to be the highlight of every single solo section, which it isnt. it doesnt help that the song is completely mappable to streams, but also cannot be justified because there is very little difference in difficulty with the solo and the entire song

i believe this can be ranked someday, but not now especially with many questionable flaws included in the map. i feel like many things are overlooked and this map was only bubbled due to certain conditions of friendship and own personal tastes, rather than the actual quality of the map considered.
Topic Starter
09kami

fieryrage wrote:

playability > aesthetics

edit: ok there's actually things wrong with this map, wtf is wrong with the hitsounding and ncs and what are the streams even following lol

goes from vocals to guitars to drums and where is the consistency hello

this is a very general question. if u point out the specific object, i can answer u . and about sound effects. I talked with MrSergio about a very long text. I don't think there's a problem now
Topic Starter
09kami

idke wrote:

i believe this can be ranked someday, but not now especially with many questionable flaws included in the map.
You can put forward detailed suggestions. But I can also refute you. This map has been prepared for a year, each mapper's style is not the same. I have my own understanding and explanation for the map, I can't guarantee that you will agree with me, but I can promise to tell you what I think.
I Must Decrease
01:55:474 (7,8,1) - isnt this just emphasizing 8 because u simply ran out of room in the editor due to poor stream placement management

02:51:649 (4,8,12,16) - vs 02:53:524 (13) - what is the reason for this difference is stream design?

03:42:274 (7) - red tick vs 03:42:949 (16) - blue tick in the same combo ??

i dont rly care how you want to prioritize rhythms, whether that be forcing direction change after the blue tick to emphasize a change in movement before the white tick / red, or if you want highlight it by making the red / white tick be the corner of the stream, but you need to be consistent with it and especially shouldnt be doing these changes in the same combo.

04:58:324 (7,8,1) - this flow makes me a sad boy
Topic Starter
09kami

Xexxar wrote:

01:55:474 (7,8,1) - isnt this just emphasizing 8 because u simply ran out of room in the editor due to poor stream placement management
01:55:024 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - 01:55:624 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - In fact, this is a set of accelerated sounds .about this sharp angle. I don't think there is any problem. because 01:54:949 (16,1,8,1) - Here, as the beginning of the acceleration, it is also an acute angle . but this looks, is not very molimen

02:51:649 (4,8,12,16) - vs 02:53:524 (13) - what is the reason for this difference is stream design? lol..I think this should be a classic part, not a mistake. This paragraph follows the guitar.Toy's Mod mentioned it here .and I like it

03:42:274 (7) - red tick vs 03:42:949 (16) - blue tick in the same combo ?? 03:42:274 (7) - watch the difference in guitar 03:42:949 (16,1) -The definition of the turning point of the tail and head is very vague .Because they're turning at the point of stress, In fact, I can explain that since 03:43:024 (1) is stress, it is connected to the acute part .and 03:42:274 (7) - I can explain that it's stressed, so I'm just pausing for a shot, and then connecting the acute angle. It doesn't make sense because they're all in the spinning part

i dont rly care how you want to prioritize rhythms, whether that be forcing direction change after the blue tick to emphasize a change in movement before the white tick / red, or if you want highlight it by making the red / white tick be the corner of the stream, but you need to be consistent with it and especially shouldnt be doing these changes in the same combo. But about turning, I'm not thinking about defining the stress as the center, or the head at the next sharp angle .In my opinion, they just need to do something about the turning point

04:58:324 (7,8,1) - this flow makes me a sad boy :o emmm.....If you want, i can really drop 04:58:474 (8) - a little .But now I don't feel necessary
emmmm....
Lasse
didn't expect it to get qualified so fast after bubble, even less so as it is right now..

hitsounding
why are you using edm kick samples as hitnormal, that sounds so unfitting with this song
using some non-electronic kick samples would make much more sense

04:22:624 - using hihat hitnormals in parts like this also makes no sense with the song, there are drum and guitar 1/4 but basically adding a 1/4 hihat layer with hitsounds sounds horrible

similar for the intro/part until first kiai
and parts like 01:17:824 - etc.

not using cymbal samples (like default soft finish) in a song that uses them quite frequently also seems really lacking

streams
your stream emphasis is all over the place in many spots
just from looking at parts like 03:41:824 - 03:49:024 -
things like 03:42:274 (7,8) - are emphasized a lot for whatever reason but then 03:42:424 (9) - isn't all, even though it stands out much more in the song and your hitsounding
then 03:42:949 (16,1) - 03:43:549 (8,9) - 03:44:149 (16,1) - actually make sense, but for some reason you do nothing on 03:44:824 (9) - 03:45:349 (16,1) - etc
03:46:024 (9,11) - are hitsounded to somehow stand out, but your patterning doesn't make them stand out in any way
I mean these things could work if you actually were consistent with them, but emphasizing like half of the stronger beats and ignoring the other half makes no sense

00:08:749 (16,1) - this is suddenly using such an outstanding angle when you didn't do that on all the strong beats before is ??

these issues are mainly relating to when you use such inconsistent concept of (not)emphasizing stuff during the same stream, and how you decide to do it.
changing things up a bit for different parts etc. is alright though, especially for a long song with so many streams



more things
00:47:824 (6) - is putting lots of emphasis on the 1/2 ticks with hitsounding but mapped tapping rhythm doesn't fit, this would be much better as two 1/4 sliders

03:55:024 (1) - should probably be 1/4, the guitar is not that clear, but sounds better on 1/4 as the important guitar beats seem pretty close to 03:55:174 - and 03:55:249 - , together with clear drums on 03:55:174 -
04:19:924 (13,14,15,16) - this doesn't give enough hitsound feedback, 10% is way too low, fadeout you put here should just se smaller steps as the ones before are really hard to hear


the map uses some nice ideas, but it seems to really lack in how they were executed
Topic Starter
09kami

Lasse wrote:

didn't expect it to get qualified so fast after bubble, even less so as it is right now..
I called for you, but you didn't pay attention to me

hitsounding
why are you using edm kick samples as hitnormal, that sounds so unfitting with this song
using some non-electronic kick samples would make much more sense

04:22:624 - using hihat hitnormals in parts like this also makes no sense with the song, there are drum and guitar 1/4 but basically adding a 1/4 hihat layer with hitsounds sounds horrible

similar for the intro/part until first kiai
and parts like 01:17:824 - etc.

not using cymbal samples (like default soft finish) in a song that uses them quite frequently also seems really lacking

I don't quite follow you . Is this denying all sound effects...? I can't guarantee that everyone sounds good .at least these sound effects are regular .Hummm... I've changed my hitnormal once. At least it's not bad now. If you have a better hitnormal.please send it to me


streams
your stream emphasis is all over the place in many spots
just from looking at parts like 03:41:824 - 03:49:024 -
things like 03:42:274 (7,8) - are emphasized a lot for whatever reason but then 03:42:424 (9) - isn't all, even though it stands out much more in the song and your hitsounding
then 03:42:949 (16,1) - 03:43:549 (8,9) - 03:44:149 (16,1) - actually make sense, but for some reason you do nothing on 03:44:824 (9) - 03:45:349 (16,1) - etc
03:46:024 (9,11) - are hitsounded to somehow stand out, but your patterning doesn't make them stand out in any way
u overlooked an important piece of information .03:46:174 (11) - this .It's the last repetition 03:46:024 (9,11,13) - 03:44:824 (9,13) - 03:43:624 (9,13) - 03:42:424 (9,13) - In the next paragraph. a change has taken place 03:46:624 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14,15,16) -
So it's changed at the end of the paragraph


I mean these things could work if you actually were consistent with them, but emphasizing like half of the stronger beats and ignoring the other half makes no sense
That's a very good suggestion, but about this. I just cut the same paragraph very thin. So that it looks very random. maybe it makes you feel a little confused... Emmm... I'll try to get someone to understand my audio model .mrsergio and I discussed the problem

00:08:749 (16,1) - this is suddenly using such an outstanding angle when you didn't do that on all the strong beats before is ?? 00:08:749 (16,1) - 00:09:874 (15,1) - 00:11:149 (16,1) - 00:12:349 (16,1) - If I say it's a twist, I don't know if you can accept it .yes, I can start with an acute angle from the front, but I didn't do that. Is consistency necessary here? 00:06:124 (13,14,15,16,1,2,3,4,5) - 00:07:324 (13,14,15,16,1,2,3,4,5) - If you need, I can even explain these two as buffering because their angles are getting sharper and sharper .but it doesn't make sense, you know. If I keep the consistency here, it will become very single. streams lost his mind

these issues are mainly relating to when you use such inconsistent concept of (not)emphasizing stuff during the same stream, and how you decide to do it.
changing things up a bit for different parts etc. is alright though, especially for a long song with so many streams

perhaps the consistency for many people is a must. But this is not blindly believe the reason. Most of the time, what we see is quite different .

more things
00:47:824 (6) - is putting lots of emphasis on the 1/2 ticks with hitsounding but mapped tapping rhythm doesn't fit, this would be much better as two 1/4 sliders I don't deny your point of view, but I don't think it's bad right now .00:47:824 (6) - This can be seen as a pause .00:48:124 (1,2) - give the player a better response to this place .

03:55:024 (1) - should probably be 1/4, the guitar is not that clear, but sounds better on 1/4 as the important guitar beats seem pretty close to 03:55:174 - and 03:55:249 - , together with clear drums on 03:55:174 -
hummmm... This place is very blurry, because I really follow the guitar .I think if I use a 1/2 slider. Plus a note. here will become very strange. But if 1/3, it will not be so molimen .03:55:324 (1) - because the two sounds coincide here But I still have a choice, if you think so https://puu.sh/x8aMM/47defe6647.png

04:19:924 (13,14,15,16) - this doesn't give enough hitsound feedback, 10% is way too low, fadeout you put here should just se smaller steps as the ones before are really hard to hear
but this is a diminishing process.a gradual process of decline .04:19:924 (13,14,15,16) - they all added finish.and there's a rising sound in

the map uses some nice ideas, but it seems to really lack in how they were executed
thx.But I chose to keep my point of view .
Raiden
I would also like to point out that the switch to 200 should be at 02:41:824 - . Currently there are double the necessary downbeats

Reset back to 100 at 03:22:624 -

And back to 200 at 03:37:024 -

Current timing playwise is fine but musical accuracy is ignored :(

(also for extra accuracy 01:17:824 - red line with 200 for "NC friendliness" or "metronome reset";

similarly 02:44:224 - here)

gratz tho, more DragonForce is always welcome 👀
Topic Starter
09kami

fieryrage wrote:

ok i have to make a separate post for this

  • 1) why are your finish hitsounds overused in the kiais? it makes playing this song without your hitsounds feel like complete ass because all i can hear is just "pop pop pop pop" where there should be vocals and, you know, not finishes
    no

    2) on the topic of hitsounds, WHY are the whistles substitute clap hitsounds? what is even the purpose of doing that, just make them actual whistles or some other sound besides a snare
    no

    3) why do your streams in the kiai follow vocals at some points in terms of spacing changes but then go to drums like 01:01:624 (1) - here during this entire stream?
    no

    4) what's wrong with your nc's like 00:51:724 (1,1) - this literally screams unpolished 00:51:874 (1) - This NC is consistent for the number of streams .00:51:874 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14) - 00:53:224 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14) -

    5) 00:55:624 (1,2,3,4,5) - where is the emphasis on literally any of these patterns? because 00:57:124 (1,2,3,4) - you seem 00:58:024 (1,2,3,4,5) - to be 00:59:524 (2,3,4,5,6,7) - changing 01:07:624 (1,2) - emphasis 01:19:024 (1,2,3,4) - quite 01:20:524 (2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - a 01:22:324 (1,2,3,4,5) - lot
    no

    6) 01:19:924 (6,7,8,9) - this is not straight, unpolished, although this is more of a minor thing anyway
    no

    7) 01:22:624 (4) - nc every downbeat but then this isn't? what? I can't understand why I need Nc here

    8) 01:28:624 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - this blatantly ignores rhythm for no reason, same thing with the next pattern, you could be following vocals or guitar here but it's just 1/4 spam??? 01:27:424 (1,2,3,1,2,3,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - 01:29:824 (1,2,3,1,2,3,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - Really?

    9) 02:15:424 (1) - what the absolute fuck is this no

    10) 02:25:024 (1) - hitsounds randomly get 30% louder here?? no

    11) 02:28:024 (2,3) - 02:29:224 (2,3) - these are the same distance but different gaps in rhythm, why? no

    12) 02:41:824 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14,15,16,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - don't you think this is a TINY bit overmapped considering the part before it?
    Is this really overmapped? There is enough intense guitar sound to support this paragraph

    12) 02:45:274 (4,1) - why? no, like, genuinely, why? how do you imagine this as a playable pattern? you're introducing a concept like this 3 minutes into the map, you are LITERALLY asking for people to break here no

    13) 02:51:424 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14,15,16) - i've legitimately seen more structured stream patterns from unranked mappers, like 02:51:724 (5) - why isn't the direction change on the white ticks? it shouldn't be on the blue ticks, that ignores rhythm entirely no

    14) 02:55:624 (1,2,3) - yeah, no, please actually stop doing this, your map is unplayable at this point no


not to mention the fact that the 100 bpm sections aren't even warranted considering the only things mapped in those sections are spinners, it should be a consistent 200 bpm throughout the entire song no

i seriously can't be bothered to look at this map more, it's not ready for ranking at all. the fact this even was considered as anything near a rankable map basically just proves the existence of a double-standard in the mapping community, as if it weren't proven already by monstrata being able to rank literally fucking anything

Yes, you're too lazy to look at this map. So what are you writing so much for? Do you promote your sense of being? Or just because your high ranking can do this? This is not an mod.


why did this get through with like 10 mods it so very clearly needs a LOT more than that?

I don't think it's a mod. first. All the arguments are based on very subjective. I don't know why you're so angry .I know that even if I answer you, you won't agree with me. So I'll deny all your questions. If only for this very radical speech, the map would be DQ. so now the RANK system is not a joke? I'm not in your "mod". Look for respect .I have at least the least respect for other people's replies, but you don't have any .

If you correct your speech, I will reply to you in details
Topic Starter
09kami
When I respect you, please respect me as well.
Mun
Whether the mod was respectful or not, the points it brings up are entirely valid, and just responding "no" is not a valid defense - just a segue into more shitfighting.

Shouldn't this be DQ'd until 09kami provides some sort of valid defense against the vehemently negative reaction this has received from mappers - something he has utterly failed to do?
Natsu
If the mod is disrespectful then the mapper don't need to reply to it
Mirash
beautiful map, gl
Kagetsu
hmm... the thing that bothers me the most about this map is the lack of contrast between intense and non-intense beats. the streams are so poorly (in my opinion) implemented that it's difficult to actually feel the song when playing.

for example, around 04:29:674 - you start mapping an endless deathstream using only spacing changes in order to somehow represent the song variations, which sounds good on paper, but the thing you're ignoring here is that after such high density, the patterns start to feel difficult regardless of the spacing shifts. there's a guideline in the ranking criteria that states: "Avoid following multiple layers of the song if it is unclear what rhythm is prioritizing. Players should be able to discern what part of the song is being followed." which doesn't seem to be followed here, as it's pretty difficult to recognize what your arrangements are mapped to.

other things i'd like to point:

most of your direction changes feel random in my opinion, your streams are extremely inconsistent on sections such as 03:41:824 - where things like 03:43:399 (6,7,8,9,10) - are tremendously difficult for no reason

your map contains a lot of snapping mistakes. i'm pretty sure that stuff like 03:01:924 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14,15,16) - 03:57:424 (1,2,3,4,5) - are 1/3.

you have many streams that follow nothing. 04:11:824 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9) - 02:45:424 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - just to mention a few
Nao Tomori
the mapper should respond to all mods properly, respectful or not... ignoring them cuz he doesn't find them nice and coddling is stupid =D
Shiirn

Natsu wrote:

If the mod is disrespectful then the mapper don't need to reply to it
ill keep that in mind thanks!!!
Kilabarus
Wtf is this guy ranking one of the most beautiful Dragonforce's song that badly and just answer to actual points in mods by copying "no"? Where is QAT members??? Many people ( even BNs and previous BNs ) have many suggestions for the map to increase it's quality, isn't this the reason to DQ this?

I'm sure this would got DQ in 2 days or so, but if it wouldn't, I will "join party" and write mod as well
Topic Starter
09kami

Mun wrote:

Whether the mod was respectful or not, the points it brings up are entirely valid, and just responding "no" is not a valid defense - just a segue into more shitfighting.

Shouldn't this be DQ'd until 09kami provides some sort of valid defense against the vehemently negative reaction this has received from mappers - something he has utterly failed to do?

MashaSG wrote:

Wtf is this guy ranking one of the most beautiful Dragonforce's song that badly and just answer to actual points in mods by copying "no"? Where is QAT members??? Many people ( even BNs and previous BNs ) have many suggestions for the map to increase it's quality, isn't this the reason to DQ this?

I'm sure this would got DQ in 2 days or so, but if it wouldn't, I will "join party" and write mod as well

Actually, I don't mind dq. if there's a better hitnormal. stubbornness doesn't make sense, but it takes better advice to break it . The map doesn't make everyone feel good. If it doesn't make you feel good, I'm sorry, but I hope you look at it in an objective way

"No" just means I've read this sentence .If you want, I can change it for "why?"" Why not? ".I wanted to say that .I should reply to a MOD. rather than a whole hostile article . all mapper have the obligation to reply to other people's mod. on their map, which is a kind of etiquette .but the difference is that what you reply is a "mod".




This is a very pointless discussion:

fieryrage wrote:

6) 01:19:924 (6,7,8,9) - this is not straight, unpolished, although this is more of a minor thing anyway
I don't think it's a kind of mod.. Is it straight? Is it important?

12) 02:45:274 (4,1) - why? no, like, genuinely, why? how do you imagine this as a playable pattern? you're introducing a concept like this 3 minutes into the map, you are LITERALLY asking for people to break here
I can't understand why I can't do it here

Pointless dispute doesn't improve this map. I made the same mistake. On another map .So I understand the need to respond kindly to other people's mod., but only if I respond to a polite person
Topic Starter
09kami

Natsu wrote:

If the mod is disrespectful then the mapper don't need to reply to it
thx
Topic Starter
09kami
I'm at work now. keep replying at night
Okoratu
so why do you halve bpm on spinners to then immediately double it again?

i mean if you halve it it shoulda stayed halved until like 02:41:824 -
but even that doesnt seem necessary


03:55:324 (1,2,3,4) - this is 1/3??

those hihats that you use as a hitnormal are so much louder than everything else >_<

taking this down to further discuss the things that were mentioned properly because a lot of the things that you just said "no" to were actually not hostile
sdafsf
i dont understand much about hitsounding but while this is disqualified i have concerns with the emphesis on the streams.

in some parts you accentuate beats by placing them on the turn of the stream like:
04:09:424 (1) - , 04:33:424 (1) - , 04:38:224 (1) - , 04:48:124 (1) -

but in some parts you place the beat before the accentuated beat on the turn of the stream like:
03:43:024 (1) - , 03:43:624 (9) - 03:44:224 (1) - , 03:57:424 (1) - , etc.

these are just some examples the it is incosistent throughout the whole map.

also i dont know why this is accentuated 03:42:274 (7) - .
03:42:424 (9) - this should be instead.

maybe im misunderstanding your structure. im interested in an explanation.
Bonsai
Natteke desu

MashaSG wrote:

Wtf is this guy ranking one of the most beautiful Dragonforce's song that badly and just answer to actual points in mods by copying "no"? Where is QAT members??? Many people ( even BNs and previous BNs ) have many suggestions for the map to increase it's quality, isn't this the reason to DQ this?

I'm sure this would got DQ in 2 days or so, but if it wouldn't, I will "join party" and write mod as well
The fuck is this post? Go and post your concerns if you got some, saying it in this way looks like you implying you can scare people with your mod lmao
zigizigiefe
I would want to point out a consistency issue

00:45:874 (11) - You forgot to add clap sound as you did for 01:36:874 (1) - or 04:29:674 (1) - or other parts where Marc says "zone", so it doesn't emphasize "zone".
Topic Starter
09kami

Raiden wrote:

I would also like to point out that the switch to 200 should be at 02:41:824 - . Currently there are double the necessary downbeats

Reset back to 100 at 03:22:624 -

And back to 200 at 03:37:024 -

Current timing playwise is fine but musical accuracy is ignored :(

(also for extra accuracy 01:17:824 - red line with 200 for "NC friendliness" or "metronome reset";

similarly 02:44:224 - here)

gratz tho, more DragonForce is always welcome 👀

That's a very good suggestion. fix
Topic Starter
09kami
ok.With regard to normal-hitnormal., I came up with one of the easiest things to do. I cancelled all normal. Now there is only soft .
about Lasse and Xexxar mod . I made some changes
00:47:824 - nc
00:47:074 - Slide
00:58:174 - position
01:00:124 - nc
04:58:324 (7,8,1) - flow
03:55:024 - Slide
04:19:024 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1,2,3,4,5,1,2,3,1) -
Topic Starter
09kami

Kagetsu wrote:

hmm... the thing that bothers me the most about this map is the lack of contrast between intense and non-intense beats. the streams are so poorly (in my opinion) implemented that it's difficult to actually feel the song when playing.

for example, around 04:29:674 - you start mapping an endless deathstream using only spacing changes in order to somehow represent the song variations, which sounds good on paper, but the thing you're ignoring here is that after such high density, the patterns start to feel difficult regardless of the spacing shifts. there's a guideline in the ranking criteria that states: "Avoid following multiple layers of the song if it is unclear what rhythm is prioritizing. Players should be able to discern what part of the song is being followed." which doesn't seem to be followed here, as it's pretty difficult to recognize what your arrangements are mapped to.
04:29:674 (1) - Hummm... I've thought about it. This section follows Voice ., but there's a section in the middle that I need to filter through 04:30:424 - 04:30:649 - There are several similar ones that are rhythmic only .I've thought that if the spacing is lowered, maybe people will understand that .But what I want to say is that the rhythm here is stream too .If change here, I think all of them need to be changed. And this change is the whole map.I think I have a clear purpose. It's part of the voice .I've made a lot of concessions about the difficulty. I don't think it's difficult for everyone to play now .what you said is a very good point of view .thx


other things i'd like to point:

most of your direction changes feel random in my opinion, your streams are extremely inconsistent on sections such as 03:41:824 - where things like 03:43:399 (6,7,8,9,10) - are tremendously difficult for no reason
well. all don't seem to like it here. I changed my angle to a very simple angle


your map contains a lot of snapping mistakes. i'm pretty sure that stuff like 03:01:924 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14,15,16) - 03:57:424 (1,2,3,4,5) - are 1/3.
no. I noticed in many places that the guitar was 1/3., but I only followed a small part .because I made a mistake on another map(https://osu.ppy.sh/s/459901). It's because of 1/3 .I always remember this mod. when you frequently switch between 1/3 and 1/4. in a stream, the player is very out of tune. This is not a good idea .switching between 1/4 and 1/3 will be difficult for players to master
Avoid following multiple layers of the song if it is unclear what rhythm is prioritizing. Players should be able to discern what part of the song is being followed."
and I think the red line sounds(no hitsounds) good enough to support these using 1/4

you have many streams that follow nothing. 04:11:824 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9) - 02:45:424 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - just to mention a few
same
It's a good discussion. I'd be happy to answer you
Topic Starter
09kami

Naotoshi wrote:

the mapper should respond to all mods properly, respectful or not... ignoring them cuz he doesn't find them nice and coddling is stupid =D
hummm...I didn't answer him. Just because he didn't put himself in a moder position. In fact, he had a lot of radical arguments, didn't he? I have revised some places that I think need to be modified .but it's not just his taunts. It's just that I think these places might do better .I am talking very calmly about it now. I just want to be respected as a mapper .I don't want this map to be commented on as worthless. If it really isn't worth it, I shouldn't pursue it with ranked as its goal .If everyone complains about it on a map of Qualified, its value will be reduced .I believe that no one wants to see . on. except to belittle it. It's difficult to make a good map , but also very happy . when someone loves your map .A mod is someone who gives you good advice .It's a kind of respect. Respect for maps .so I respect every moder .Even if opinions can not be unified, I also want to explain my ideas as much as possible. There are reasons for refusing .But the premise of all this is that this is a mod that respects maps

I said. He corrected the radical remarks. I'll discuss it with him calmly .But so far, he didn't respond, so I don't think it's a ‘’mod‘’
Musty
this is a really fun map !! good luck 09
Topic Starter
09kami

sdafsf wrote:

i dont understand much about hitsounding but while this is disqualified i have concerns with the emphesis on the streams.

in some parts you accentuate beats by placing them on the turn of the stream like:
04:09:424 (1) - , 04:33:424 (1) - , 04:38:224 (1) - , 04:48:124 (1) -
04:09:424 (1) - emmm... I think it's ok. because of the shortening of the spacing 04:09:424 (1,2,3,4) -
04:33:424 (1) - About here. I can understand the idea at the time. The turning point in the white of the drums. 04:33:124 (13,14,15,16) - But you reminded me. I should slow down here .like 04:37:924 (13,14,15,16) -
04:38:224 (1) - Emmm... I may know why you have any doubts about these places . 04:38:224 - This place is a drum sound and coincides with the long sound of the human voice .when sufficient conditions are supported, this rotation gives the player an accelerated sense of power .Also, the deceleration ahead is enough to allow the player to adapt to this segment .
04:48:124 (1) - same
About the angle of the corner, I don't think it's necessary to adjust the angle to the same, because the only thing you need is to let the player feel the effect. Most of the same angle doesn't make sense

but in some parts you place the beat before the accentuated beat on the turn of the stream like:
03:43:024 (1) - , 03:43:624 (9) - 03:44:224 (1) - , 03:57:424 (1) - , etc.
on.I changed it here in the mod above

these are just some examples the it is incosistent throughout the whole map.

also i dont know why this is accentuated 03:42:274 (7) - .
03:42:424 (9) - this should be instead.
same

maybe im misunderstanding your structure. im interested in an explanation.
I don't follow a fixed pendulum. It makes the map very boring, but I fix a rhythm at each section .same to stream. in my opinion, a lot of stream can do it in different ways .but this can become inconsistent in some people's eyes .This is not a kind of targeted speech. I mean. Everyone has different opinions .But I'm used to looking at this from a variety of perspectives .That's what I learned when I followed HW .Creation, change .


zigizigiefe wrote:

I would want to point out a consistency issue

00:45:874 (11) - You forgot to add clap sound as you did for 01:36:874 (1) - or 04:29:674 (1) - or other parts where Marc says "zone", so it doesn't emphasize "zone".
on.sorry .It was a mistake. I corrected it > <
Topic Starter
09kami

Okorin wrote:

so why do you halve bpm on spinners to then immediately double it again?

i mean if you halve it it shoulda stayed halved until like 02:41:824 -
but even that doesnt seem necessary

There are some differences. I think I need to change the BPM to 100. BPM is now modified to be provided by Raiden


03:55:324 (1,2,3,4) - this is 1/3??

fix

those hihats that you use as a hitnormal are so much louder than everything else >_<

fix


taking this down to further discuss the things that were mentioned properly because a lot of the things that you just said "no" to were actually not hostile
I picked up some of the items that need to be modified and put it on the separate Post above

well.I think it needs modification. It's done
Seijiro
there is an Edit button on your post, please do not post each single reply in a new post
sdafsf

09kami wrote:

I don't follow a fixed pendulum. It makes the map very boring, but I fix a rhythm at each section .same to stream. in my opinion, a lot of stream can do it in different ways .but this can become inconsistent in some people's eyes .This is not a kind of targeted speech. I mean. Everyone has different opinions .But I'm used to looking at this from a variety of perspectives .That's what I learned when I followed HW .Creation, change .
so your point is basically consistency is boring and uncreative?
i disagree with that in the first place but i dont think having the emphesis points in your stream off by one object makes your map any more interesting as it is.
consistency and creativity are not mutually exclusive
Shiirn

sdafsf wrote:

consistency and creativity are not mutually exclusive
This is a concept that the East has struggled with for nearly a decade. Trying to explain to them that "just because you're getting bored as a mapper doesn't mean the player is getting bored" is a waste of time.

09kami wrote:

But I'm used to looking at this from a variety of perspectives .That's what I learned when I followed HW .Creation, change .
HW himself was extremely consistent. Like, wow, his maps are absurdly consistent and predictable. They're just crazy creative and interpretive. But misunderstanding creativity to mean "making up random stuff" is such a cute thing to do. It's literally what makes most newbie maps so adorably awful.

But practice makes perfect.
pkhg
why is the mp3 so bad lol
Topic Starter
09kami

sdafsf wrote:

09kami wrote:

I don't follow a fixed pendulum. It makes the map very boring, but I fix a rhythm at each section .same to stream. in my opinion, a lot of stream can do it in different ways .but this can become inconsistent in some people's eyes .This is not a kind of targeted speech. I mean. Everyone has different opinions .But I'm used to looking at this from a variety of perspectives .That's what I learned when I followed HW .Creation, change .
so your point is basically consistency is boring and uncreative?
i disagree with that in the first place but i dont think having the emphesis points in your stream off by one object makes your map any more interesting as it is.
consistency and creativity are not mutually exclusive

no.I think we have some misunderstandings .I agree consistency and creativity are not mutually exclusive. but this is a broad concept . 04:33:124 (13,14,15,16) -Like this paragraph. You reminded me. I found the difference, So I modified it in order to keep consistency .But what I want to say is consistency. It doesn't just mean a place .emmm....I think it should be better to show you an example (https://osu.ppy.sh/b/1011818). If you would like to see this example, please note 00:02:176 (1) - - through 00:41:528 (4) - .It's a very boring tempo, because there's only one monotonic beat .If you stay consistent here, it can become very boring, so when you just pay attention to these two sounds, your mind becomes very narrow .and break through this cage. That's what I want to say .But it's a tough thing because it takes time and again to test the correctness of the tempo .balance . so consistency and creativity are not mutually exclusive. But blind consistency does limit your thinking. creativity


Shiirn wrote:

HW himself was extremely consistent. Like, wow, his maps are absurdly consistent and predictable. They're just crazy creative and interpretive. But misunderstanding creativity to mean "making up random stuff" is such a cute thing to do. It's literally what makes most newbie maps so adorably awful.

But practice makes perfect.
In fact, this is forced.She told me that if you want to break the limit from your point of view, a perfect map state must be guaranteed .I don't think I can do it yet. It's a great thing


pkhg wrote:

why is the mp3 so bad lol
emmmmm....Just compressed

hummm...I'm more inclined to test players on the mod issue .I've got a lot of top players to test this map.So it's the problem of difficulties. I set them up as a standard
Shiirn
Don't use HW as an excuse if you're doing the exact opposite of what he/she does, hahahaha.
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