YaHao wrote:

Be able to play surely will help you a lot on judging a map, but that's not everything. Of course, "just theory" is not gonna stand either.

Let's quit arguing whether a BN can or not judge this map, its pointless and i dont think this can do any help to the map itself, plus i can find many examples of BN icon a map which is beyond his playing skill. http://osu.ppy.sh/forum/p/5771261

Less talking, some actual work (like a proper mod) to improve the map will be helpful, or even quote the QAT mod if not agree with pew's reply to them, cause i dont see any of you two did that.

YaHao wrote:

juankristal wrote:

And even more seriously, Kuo Kyoka, I imagine there is a rule saying dont nominate stuff you cant judge right? I mean, Mazzerin stuff from STD is the first thing that comes to mind and I think this is a pretty similar comparision. Just leaving it there for you to think about it.

So because the current map/pattern is not YOUR taste or the map/pattern isn't up to the standard YOU want, by that you can just say he is not capable of this?

He mod this map more than several times, there are efforts and actual works behind this bubble icon.
Unlike someone who just walk into the thread, give one long essay (Which some of the points are valued, i agree) but without giving any timing point, any suggestions on how to improve the mapping quality, plus 80% of the points are whether "Personal" or "Community think"instead of being "Subjective". Do you think this person is capable of popping this map? Dont think so.

richardfeder wrote:

...did you pop this bubble on a bn's point of view with specific reasons regarding any technical issues presented in the mapset, or did you just pop it because you don't like Expew's attitude and the fact that he declined mods with legit justification? I do believe that, despite mapper's attitude is a huge factor in the ranking process, we do not veto a map just because its owner is an asshole(and Expew is not an asshole, nor is he trying to be arrogant and shit at people). Modders are here to express their opinions and offer helps to the map, but here to not change one's attitude.

juankristal wrote:

I hope you can see its not about skill, is about making the map more reasonable. Stuff like this in general are uncommon to see ranked and if you want to do it, you have to do it right. AiAe was a mistake, so will this map be if it hits ranked.

richardfeder wrote:

The map doesn't violet any written rules in the RC. You said that this map was disqualified for a reason and it has not yet been addressed. What I can see from both disqualification posts is that, QATs put this down for spaces to discuss and Expew to justify his mapping or make any changes if necessary, and Expew indeed went through mods and replied. Did you interpret the disqualification post as a denial to certain part of the map? No one disqualified this map because any parts are absolutely unacceptable and have to be changed because they violate RC or anything. Indeed the jack part is not considered as common sense in mania mapping by some people, but there are also folks who like it and are looking forward to see how pros, or themselves, smash through that part. In their opinion, the jack parts are absolutely an authentic expression of the music and are parts that make this map special.

Kawawa wrote:

Players also already playing similar tempo with this(recently DT patch)
If I compared with something.
https://puu.sh/va1ae/5e05342095.jpg
LEFT :: C18H27NO3(extend) 4K DT burst one(310 BPM)
RIGHT :: Beethoven will be calculated as 340 BPM(because It used only one hand)

maybe it can be ridiculous that I brought 4K and DT.
nevertheless It shows the player can play. how much player can passed it?

Halogen- wrote:

The moment something like this hits ranked, it's going to assist in setting a precedence that states "well, ExPew managed to get this kind of map ranked, I should be able to do it too." This kind of mentality enables a snowfall effect that transcends this single map for the purpose of ranks: people will feel like they have the ability to "innovate" or "try something new" in a map, and to be perfectly honest: this isn't any sort of novelty or groundbreaking. It's just abusive patterning in a short section of the song that delivers nothing more than a substantial difficulty spike.

Halogen- wrote:

As Kamikaze said: you cannot judge a map purely on theoretical ability. There are playability standards that should be adhered to, and the highest difficulty on this map is far from it. When you're going out of your way to get a bubble on this map, you are acknowledging that you have intent to expose this file to players, and you can't just insert something that you want because it "feels right." A 25-note 1/4 chord jack at 170 BPM is simply not acceptable under any constraint: I don't care in this particular case that it is an atonal repetition, and I wouldn't care if it was a repeated piano chord or something that would "theoretically merit" that kind of patterning: you wouldn't do it in any case because it's largely unplayable and is a huge difficulty spike with comparison to the rest of the map.

I think the jack pattern definitely does not go over the playability standards, if it actually exists. You said that the highest difficulty is far from it, and I do agree with you that indeed it is if one tries to fc it. The "playable" you stated above is clearly too much. It is absolutely doable, but hardto be executed perfectly. I am not going to pretend that many people can actually handle it, but I am pretty sure that at the same time, there are quite a few pro who believe they can do it and are willing to repeated challenge that pattern to proof their skills.

The purpose of beatmap modding is to get the map to the highest quality out of the beatmap. Those who are modding don't have to change one's attitude in most cases — however, when you have players who absolutely dislike the map, and various impartial people saying that the structure is basically unplayable/unenjoyable, that should be an immediate red flag that something like this is an issue. While juankristal might not have been the best at making his point by adding a bit of a tactless statement about the song/map, the point is that this map presents a serious issue for another reason as well:

I absolutely have no idea about the immediate red flag part. Why is it a "NO" just because, let's say 60% of the people(if you do go over the thread you will notice that 60% is way more than a conservative calculation) hate it? You should be aware of the fact that people out there are promoting this map with careful thoughts.

juankristal wrote:

I hope you can see its not about skill, is about making the map more reasonable. Stuff like this in general are uncommon to see ranked and if you want to do it, you have to do it right. AiAe was a mistake, so will this map be if it hits ranked.

The moment something like this hits ranked, it's going to assist in setting a precedence that states "well, ExPew managed to get this kind of map ranked, I should be able to do it too." This kind of mentality enables a snowfall effect that transcends this single map for the purpose of ranks: people will feel like they have the ability to "innovate" or "try something new" in a map, and to be perfectly honest: this isn't any sort of novelty or groundbreaking. It's just abusive patterning in a short section of the song that delivers nothing more than a substantial difficulty spike.

What are you afraid of? The danger of snowfall always exists, and it is not going to be an excuse for us to stop here and with our limited mapping styles stays unchanged for ages. Indeed jack pattern itself is not a new technique, but trying to use long jack pattern and corporate it with the rest of the map is definitely something we have not tried in the past. It opens up the discussion if patterns like this are actually usable in certain cases and I do not think it is wise to shut this down just because many people can't play this pattern at all.

We are not in the stage of snowfall. We have not even experienced a single snow due to the fact that how cautious we are. I 100% understand the fear you and Juan harbor, but I also have confidence that, even if Expew ranked his map and it failed the community miserably and someone tries the same thing later, instead of saying "well, Expew managed to get his shit ranked so I guess I should be able to do that too", our mappers, BNs and QATs will say "hey did you see those salty comments and replays on the scoreboard? Don't try that and we won't rank map like that anymore".

richardfeder wrote:

The map doesn't violet any written rules in the RC. You said that this map was disqualified for a reason and it has not yet been addressed. What I can see from both disqualification posts is that, QATs put this down for spaces to discuss and Expew to justify his mapping or make any changes if necessary, and Expew indeed went through mods and replied. Did you interpret the disqualification post as a denial to certain part of the map? No one disqualified this map because any parts are absolutely unacceptable and have to be changed because they violate RC or anything. Indeed the jack part is not considered as common sense in mania mapping by some people, but there are also folks who like it and are looking forward to see how pros, or themselves, smash through that part. In their opinion, the jack parts are absolutely an authentic expression of the music and are parts that make this map special.

I think you're disregarding the fact that, if I'm interpreting the context correctly within the course of the thread and the post that ExPew made: he nerfed the ending with respect to criticisms provided, only to decide to put it back right at the end of the map's modding cycle (basically post Kuo's bubble). And the whole concept of this map not violating any written rules of the RC is a stupid excuse, let's drop that right at the door — it's a pathetic excuse of a shield for the purpose of trying to let something that has been established as subjectively incorrect and poorly done by both mappers and players (polarization in rankings). I've yet to see anyone that the difficulty aims to target, who is impartial to the situation, react positively about the structure of this map. In fact, I personally was tipped off about this map's infamy for the same reason that this map was disqualified, and alone speaks volumes. This is not something that should pass.

I am not trying to say that he does not violate any written laws so he is safe. Sorry for not saying my thoughts in a clean, understandable way.

Please allow me to rephrase what I tended to say in my previous post. We have so little rules which gives us the maximum potential to express our interpretation freely, and as long as it is justified reasonably, it should not be easily denied. Same, if you are going to say no, you have to voice your concern with details. A undefined idea "Unplayable"(where's the boundary? No no can fc = unplayable? 70% players can't catch 70% of the notes in the jack part = unplayable? Or no one can actually pass it is a true "unplayable"?) sounds so rude and arrogant compares to how much efforts modders, BNs who support this map with their reasons stated.

I was thinking about Juan saying Expew did not fix any "QAT's concern" when I typed my previous post. All I wanted to say before is that Expew did not violate and written rules and QAT did not disqualified the map, saying that "you must change this part" ect.. There's no such "QAT's concern". They DQ-ed for more discussions so that we all can sit down and talk about this before everything is settled too quickly.


A good mapper knows how to express the music properly, while still making it approachable for the players who want to play it. This is not approachable under any circumstance. If my memory serves me correctly, even jakads, who is #1 in the game statistically at the moment, a player that has spent time crushing all varieties of maps in the game, was not able to properly play the ending of your not even 6* map.

There's no guarantee that if you S-ranked all 5* maps then when you download the next 5* maps you are going to pass it. It is highly likely that you can handle it well, but sometimes not. As you know Tom's algorithm has been helping us a ton, but it is also true that the star rating system we have right now still cannot handle certain patterns for instances heavy LNs and jacks. You know that this is actually not 6* at all.

I am still note sure what do you mean by saying properly. I am not, and I guess no one, maybe including himself, is expecting jakads or someone else crushes that part easily. Are you expecting him to perform "properly"?

Kuo Kyoka wrote:

This will never had a stop.

Kuo Kyoka wrote:

It's not impossible to play, someone does FC'ed it. jakads himself is an example, in early stage of first qualified I watched his gameplay.
The map supposed to be challenge. I can't understand why everyone forced ExPew to do what he don't want to, he explained many times, he do progress quite a lot already, taking critisms like you've asked but yet someone doesn't new ending so he reverted it.
And you're saying I can't judge the map? So my mod and testplay for the map is meaningless? Judge doesn't mean you can only do that by gameplay, a few gameplay would help to check the comfortability but playability isn't the only way to judge can you just understand what I'm saying? It's rude and my thought you guys mean that I go blindly nominated this mapset for no reasons.

And again, why? ExPew even give you guys 3 months of period, after DQ-ed on January, everything calmed down and we thought you are COMPLETELY fine with it, now continue with a group of "community" after juankristal showed up?

And no hate, did you ever mod a 7K map before, juankristal? Or just popped the bubble because of "community voice"?
You can hate this map/song, but that doesn't mean ALL players hate it, ALL mappers hate it, I repeat, ALL, not a group of 20 people with haters. It's not neccessary to force other to do something they don't like, frame-work job is no good.
We care what you said, we read what you wrotr, we listen and understand what you're trying to say, but going on, we don't want to neccessary follow what you said if we have a good reason to do that, or you guys didn't care what we said and our effort putted on here, or just watch the result and spoil it all?
17VA: Know what you're saying, did you even look to the thread itself?

So, ExPew changed then stop please, it's better for you to pass over lower tier difficulities than just focus on one last diff to understand how the map was going on, it's just like you watching the end of a new movie.

Thanks. I stop here, I'm sorry if I'm salty.

SPOILER

I belive Glorious Crown got the same treats, many people said they will mod it but it been 2 weeks since last DQ and Interlude-and Tifyron and Tode are 3 people only came back

ExPew rude, deleting the post saying that I should rebubble

juankristal wrote:

And last, any BN can pop any bubble at any time before something is qualified. The BN who got his bubble popped can icon the set again until both parts find an agreement. I am trying to go with some pattern derivations of what ExPew has right now to try and reflect how is it achieved right now in at least a better way (to not be 100% the guy who says, this is bad, fix k bye) tho I will consult some high end players first before anything.

I think the ending could look a bit more symetric or pleasing but I might just be wrong and it could be fine as it is. Anyways, I will try to get that veredict done for tonight.

Kuo Kyoka wrote:

juankristal wrote:

And last, any BN can pop any bubble at any time before something is qualified. The BN who got his bubble popped can icon the set again until both parts find an agreement. I am trying to go with some pattern derivations of what ExPew has right now to try and reflect how is it achieved right now in at least a better way (to not be 100% the guy who says, this is bad, fix k bye) tho I will consult some high end players first before anything.

I think the ending could look a bit more symetric or pleasing but I might just be wrong and it could be fine as it is. Anyways, I will try to get that veredict done for tonight.

Dear juankristal,
By what you said, you can't unsure something by yourself even, that make me rethink that you pop the bubble just because you feel that map is not ready and everyone (your community voices) think like you, but not because you have a special details on it: "why and should not why?"

So, please define bad? What is bad to you in the ending?

juankristal wrote:

So this is what I find out to be what I would end up doing, ExPew, I would like your thoughts on this and potentially talk about it to get into a middle point with it and both be okey.

Infection diff:

02:33:292 -

The way I drafted this is in a way where it is symetrical-ish I guess. You can also do some mixing and instead of making it full like that it could be [67][23][56] etc (all of them being 2 note jacks ofc). I think it would be more playable overall.

based on pic, people can fc with ease by simply spam with 3 finger ( no need to read the note column changes ) and easier than Insane diff jack.
referring to the right finger jack i made last time, due to the complaint where it caused a spike on the right and a bit too long, i arranged it with 2 fingers left and right together for better playability which some player has difficulty of a weak right spot for the jack

This is another example of the usage, a bit more challlenging and harder:

But then again we reach another issue which would be the other long jacks:

continuous jack on space is not recommend for me because we don't know player will play it by using left or right thumb since it's a long jack on this part.

02:25:527 - 02:14:233 - this ones being the most significants. So here it would happen the thing I mentioned earlier but in the opposite way. How to fix this well, you always have the option of rotating this into 2 sets of jacks instead only one but I imagine you want to keep them so, you could try and use the 4th column a bit in the ending to balance that gap out a little bit. In my honest opinion, I would change the remaining jacks that I marked into 2 bllocks of jacks or maybe even like the ending I proposed splitting them into 2 note jacks.

i have to refuse. im following the instrument pitch and this section is not for extensive long jack. if you think there is a less column usage, the music already fit it well with the current note.]

Tell me what you think about them so we decide what to do after all.

For the insane difficulty however I believe that would create a gap between both endings so you probably want to change that ending a little bit too. Keeping it as a double trill until 02:34:351 - that part should be good enough but I guess you could draft something else like having sudden 2 note jacks instead. Just make it easier than the proposed ending of the hardest diff and avoid the 4note jack usage for spread reasons. In any case, I am up for debating this further and reach conclusions that satisfies both of us.

considering to nerf the jack due to slight gap on Hard diff (single note stream without any jack). this might look better

Waiting for your answer then.

juankristal wrote:

So, the insane part looks cool so let leave that as resolved already.

For the ending, I guess your arguments are fair. I understasnd your point of FC with ease by spamming and I find it fair enough to let it as it is.

Although, I think that if you ended up changing that ending you should stay consistent with the rest, I know the change hurts and it might be against your ideals, but hey, you can keep up the difficulty level of the ending into the other parts too.

So lets mark all the long jacks that are questionable:

02:07:880 (127880|6,127880|4,127969|6,127969|4,128057|4,128057|6,128145|4,128145|6) - Just doing a ctrl+h here to split the 8 note jack into 2 different 4 blocks should be good enough for players to still take it as a challenge yet not be completely out of place compared to the rest of the chart.

02:14:233 - For this section, I think using blocks of 2 jacks each would be the best idea to go. Think it this way, if the ending is supposed to be the harder part of the map then this should have somewhat of an easier pattering and having an extended lenght of 2 jack blocks is probably a good setup for the harder ending. Other options are also viable such as separating it into 3 blocks of 4 jacks or doing something like the ending but in an easier scale.

02:25:527 - Same thing should apply here, in fact, if you want to make the players have to deal with a challenge you could have something a bit different or some sort of deviation of the previous suggestion/ending since at the end of the day, if all the patterns work the same "way" as in, they have the same strucutre, it would target just a specific term of playstyle but you can very well test it in different ways avoiding pattern repetition if that makes sense.


This would also sorta fix the gap between insane and infection difficulties which were kinda huge even before the first change ever.

when did I say I was going to rebubble this mfw, anyways, dont worry about that

Soul Evans wrote:

Yeah you pretty much made it worse man

There is alot of ways to do the ending better than what you did but oh well.
i'd like your point modding later cause i rejected juankristal's point ending part cause 'too easy' with simply spam

The fact this is now underrated also makes me kinda sad,
it doesn't matter to me. (SR is a crap and easy to abuse)

especially since the jacks for some sections aren't consistent at all with the ending, and you raised HP now i think?
im already out of idea pattern and try to avoid use 'space' column note, definitely i would reject it, HP? yes for anti-spam

anyways, i'd rather fail the old version with an S than playing this new one, not saying the old one was perfect and all, but you had done it in a way that's not as better as the old one, which is why i'm gonna take some time modding this later or talk to you about it and what not.
older version was easier to fc than latest you need to reading skill to jack'em perfectly. let's hear your modding later.

-Kamikaze- wrote:

star rating is destryoing this game, no joke lmao
people only care about it nowadays, and that's sad

I support the HP raise as well, just 10 pesos this time

AncuL wrote:

knowing the diff have a part with super long jacks (02:25:527 - ), i think it'd be better if the ending is made around that kind of difficulty becasuse imo the ending should be the hardest part of the game (nerfing that long jack part is also quite alright if you want to separate it into 3 4-note long jacks)

ExPew wrote:

i think current ending part already hardest i made, cause you cannot simply spam when note jack column keep changing. ( obviously you will get '50 or miss' )

Another Lie wrote:

Maybe a bit suggestion after conflict ends. I'm shocked when i updated the new ver, oh god 9.6HP T_T
Feel free to do as you wish for my suggestion

Infection

01:06:116 (66116|4,66160|5,66204|6,66248|4,66292|2,66336|0,66380|1,66425|2) - maybe you could make it like this or reversed ver of these notes 02:13:880 (133880|2,133925|0,133969|2,134013|0,134057|4,134101|6,134145|4,134189|6) -
i feel this original is pretty harder to read because of 01:06:248 (66248|4,66292|2) - i thought you were separating them by 4 notes [i mean 2 notes in 2 column] but i was mistaken. All fixed, but hey i didn't expect this pattern can do well lol

I'm looking forward for your re-bubble

AncuL wrote:

ExPew wrote:

i think current ending part already hardest i made, cause you cannot simply spam when note jack column keep changing. ( obviously you will get '50 or miss' )

my score
here's some replay if necessary
there you can see where i do better and where i do worse. i managed to 300 on many notes at the ending while i struggle from having misses on the long jacks. well yeah i can't do jacks for more than 4 notes straight but if you aim this to be played by players who plays 6-7 star maps, don't expect them to really spam the ending because they won't.
if they won't, then they can read the pattern together with jack very well. the different is previously part is not to use your reading skills. so yeah you can full force on your jack skills.
my suggestion would be to use longer jacks (4-6 notes) but still keeping the "hard-to-spam" nature to the pattern because currently the longest jack on the ending is just two notes long jack and it's not that hard to nail
if ending part you think easier, i think previously part jack is easier to me. Fair right?

and hey it's just my suggestion feel free to deny

juankristal wrote:

Not really, I gave my opinion already but besides the ending, nothing changed. I saw some people trying to mod this and they got shut down by a negative attitude so no big news there either.

I am still against the long 12/10 note jack so there isnt much I can really express anymore about it. I am keeping my veto on this one because of it and I am not really on the mood to keep modding this. Since the rules allowes you to re-bubble this since this is not STD just go ahead and do it (there should be another time to talk about that specific rule to rework it so vetoing actually makes some sense lol).
did you read post on 22 days ago? or you just don't want to see it? i've told you how the music work able to follow (as long they're not abused). the main issue has been fixed looong ago due to ending jack part is was 'retarded' you said. and then you're trying to nerf everything related with music now. lol

I still think it doesnt really make sense to map something hard because you can map it hard and there are like a small part of the playerbase who is actually able to play it but oh well. Might this be the reason to start mapping really bullshit stuff for real from now on :p
same reason i said before i might not explain here anymore :facepalm:. if you think this map is bullshit because of jack style. think about it with someone already abuse it with other style.I don't want to say anymore and i just you want think before act

I support the HP raise tho, because it makes more sense for the playerbase you are aiming for.

juankristal wrote:

Isnt a Veto being against something thats happening? I mean yeah, its probably more extreme than that but again, this is not something I think deserves to be ranked at this state for reasons that I already pointed out. I understand tho that you are mad at me because I took to long to even give a reply to this (and yeah, I am sorry for that, not even going to give an excuse tbh)

You using your own mindsets to answer my complains wont change my mind on this which is why I am keeping the veto on it. About your post on Memoria its your fault for not doing the veto if you felt it was overmapped or wrong/bad/anything. Thats why the veto exists, its about something being subjective.

I wasnt even going to rebubble this at all since the very first post because I dont want to icon this.
That's what I want to know, you can at least say it directly from one month ago though, but thanks.

And again, me being on Veto against this doesnt mean he cant rank this anymore. Absolutely the opposite, prove me wrong that the community really supports and wants this and get the BNs needed to get this ranked still and then I would have to eat my words (which again, is part of how the veto works, finding an agreement or finding more people who supports what it is).
The whole community, every single people in the community are against this or something? I can see there are still people against this map, which make them feel uncomfortable to their gameplay, they can come up with an arguement and all we can do is to reply to it with reason why to keep or change it. But yet, there are also people are supporting this map. We're not always right, so does you, veto is means to make an arguement to the best opinion, but yet, you can't just force them to change it to your veto and igroned all of ExPew's reply why he keep it.
Or you're the leader of osu!mania community that you know everyone against this map (?)


Expew: Using "jack style" doesnt mean you have to use an overdone amount of them. You could very well keep that jack style and make it so your map is still challenging (and even harder actually) without using the [57] repetition jack over there. Or even so, if you are claiming to be using a "jack style" you could very well apply it to the whole map and not just to the ending to spike the hell out of it in that specific style. Beside the fact of the intro being so undermapped overall as well. I could just state the same I stated multiple times but its not worth it.
He already changed new patterns and you guys still not satisfied? Cheeee...
The fact that there is the feeling on some parts which is better to make with easy patterns and yet, to comfortable with music itself and a little warm-up to the players! Not every parts need to be hard just because it's an Extra diff. Not every single sound you need to presents it with a note.

Finally, what the kek went up with stepmania on your thread KK, I am seriously confused.
Confused

Sleep time, in case you still want to talk about this later I will take a while to answer.

juankristal wrote:

Isnt a Veto being against something thats happening? I mean yeah, its probably more extreme than that but again, this is not something I think deserves to be ranked at this state for reasons that I already pointed out. I understand tho that you are mad at me because I took to long to even give a reply to this (and yeah, I am sorry for that, not even going to give an excuse tbh)

You using your own mindsets to answer my complains wont change my mind on this which is why I am keeping the veto on it. About your post on Memoria its your fault for not doing the veto if you felt it was overmapped or wrong/bad/anything. Thats why the veto exists, its about something being subjective.
is it part of your fault too? you also appear on that thread why not veto it by yourself? meh nvm, something comes up to me about veto, nice rule :>.

I wasnt even going to rebubble this at all since the very first post because I dont want to icon this.
okay :>.

And again, me being on Veto against this doesnt mean he cant rank this anymore. Absolutely the opposite, prove me wrong that the community really supports and wants this and get the BNs needed to get this ranked still and then I would have to eat my words (which again, is part of how the veto works, finding an agreement or finding more people who supports what it is).
first of thing, im not type to find attention or advertise my map to get support (at least the 'favorite' considered as support my map and i'm very grateful to them). they free will to support or not to support. Can you clarify 'the community' support but they didn't give any feedback on the thread to ensure your support? i'd like their 'complains' what are they thinking.


Expew: Using "jack style" doesnt mean you have to use an overdone amount of them. You could very well keep that jack style and make it so your map is still challenging (and even harder actually) without using the [57] repetition jack over there. Or even so, if you are claiming to be using a "jack style" you could very well apply it to the whole map and not just to the ending to spike the hell out of it in that specific style.
i don't get what the hell are you talking about. did i fixed it ending jack and replied your mod post with my reason? just i want to know WHY you don't accept on music instrument follow or pitch on certain parts in short time? it's not claim as jackstyle just you said but this music is able to use jack pattern. btw ,check latest update please. (you're argue about 3 months ago ending jack pattern)

??? ???

Beside the fact of the intro being so undermapped overall as well. I could just state the same I stated multiple times but its not worth it.
???????????????????
so what's the problem with undermapped/underrate? isnt this chart is quite clear easy to read? it's worth current SR with current pattern instead of chordmashstreamteleportstarabuseblablabla you support it. In fact, you're PP lover.


Finally, what the kek went up with stepmania on your thread KK, I am seriously confused.

Sleep time, in case you still want to talk about this later I will take a while to answer.

Soul Evans wrote:

Hopefully, after this the set can go to qualify soon, sorry for the big delay

Soul's Modding

1 / 2 / 3 / 4 / 5 / 6 / 7

General

1. BPM: Okay
2. Offset: Okay
3. AiMod: Okay
4. Tags: Okay
5. BG: Okay
6. Kiai: Okay
7. Metadata: Okay
8. Folder’s problem: None
9. Hitsound: Okay
10. Timing: Okay
11. Other: Okay
    [Infection]
12. 00:09:469 (9469|0,9469|2,9645|2,9645|0,9822|1,9998|0,10175|1,10351|2,10351|0,10527|2,10704|0,10704|1,10880|1,10880|2,11057|1,11057|0) - I kinda urge you to change this, seems a bit left hand bias and everything went smooth until arrange of patterns came up, felt really weird in comparison, i think you can move a few notes to the right side, especially this 00:10:527 (10527|2,10704|0,10704|1,10880|2,10880|1,11057|0,11057|1) - i don't know you expect to fill whole column and make it more balance but the pitch goes well so it's fine. changed some pattern make it inverted
    
13. 00:12:116 - to 00:12:380 - i think you can add a bit of 1/4 to give it a more effect, since last ones had notes in them and i personally think it would be a good idea doing so. i rather let it single instrument on this part to make it ending spot before going to new chorus
    
14. 00:12:822 - This leaves a bit of opportunity for mapping either the 1/2 i'm hearing above, or making the 3 note chord have LNs in them, they fit your style and the type of rhythm i'm hearing would make it work out nicely, i think you should go with it for more fun ideas. it's not going well adding LNs when you facing new chorus of the music.
    
15. 00:31:175 (31175|2,31175|0,31175|4) - So i was thinking this could be a bit at the right column so that it could be more pitch relevant hmm, kinda bit not feeling well if moving on right column
    
16. 00:32:057 - For some reason this comes off as mindblocky, not really an issue per-say but i feel like you could think of a pattern that plays out nicely and smoothly overall to counter the beginning SVs currently something like?? can give me any suggestion pattern?
    
17. 00:32:586 (32586|0,32939|0,33292|0,33645|0,33998|0,34351|0,34704|0,35057|0) - Is there something you can do to break these 1/1s? i feel like it's giving more work to the left hand and not really giving proper balance, hence it's a bit of a hindrance. changed a bit
    
18. 00:33:998 (33998|4) - you know, this sound you're following feels like 3-sounds more than 1 long one, which is why there are notes in the 1/2 but i thought you could do something different (and more creative) for it. im trying not to use too much note instrument on playfield cause getting messy as intro part, for the beginning of the music let the note follow each instrument. (something like 1 note = 1 instrument )
    
19. 00:34:704 (34704|5,34880|5) - I don't like how this plays out for the middle finger, especially with the LN and the pattern the player has to face infront, so i want you to move it to the index finger or reverse it with the LN i guess, because it felt awkward to hit. guess i already change this part according your point at 00:32:586 -
    
20. 00:35:057 - Now i don't understand why this is a 4 note chord when the others were 3, i know you used it for the fact it's not with an LN attached or that you are mixing it with the violin sound the 1/4 is using, but i find it limiting considering you can make the 1/4 consistent with the 1/2 here 00:35:233 (35233|3,35233|1) - these are 2 note chords while the blue ticks on 1/4 are 1 when they are both the same sound, so you can limit the 4-note to be 3 note instead and make the blue ticks be chords instead of one, much more consistent that way, rather than something unbalanced. ahaha, why suddenly 4 notes also idk but yeah i remove as unknown note instrument without hitsound
    
21. 00:35:410 (35410|2,36116|6) - How about you make these notes i highlighted short 1/4 LNs? it follows the theme and give it more spice and consistency which sounds pretty good to me. and i highlighted it so it can be Pitch relevant. sorry im not making 1/4 ln on this part
    
22. 00:40:880 (40880|1) - tbh, this is giving a stack that isn't really good or give the original feeling the upper pattern is giving, which is why i recommend moving it to the 7th column, it should also be more pitch relevant that way leaving the fuss of the current problem, also worth noting that 00:40:704 (40704|4,40880|3) - should be reversed maybe, so that it can also follow PR correctly. reversed pitch also acceptable
    
23. 00:43:351 - this is the same as the intro with the short 1/4 LNs so why isn't it the same? i recommend doing that. re-add
    
24. 00:44:233 - 00:44:939 - 00:45:645 - should be 3 note chords, the same as you did earlier so i don't get how they are regular bracket chords. it's different on current chorus with less music stuff, there only has 2 sounds on basic and no melody/violin here. when adding a note, it turns to a ghost note
    
25. 00:46:351 - same for this, this use to be 4 note chords but now it's 2 notes like the one earlier? ^
    
26. 00:48:292 - I was thinking of a fun idea for this, how about you make these into 1/4 LN? it would make it alot more interesting and fit the theme, imo. i don't want to add 1/4 ln on this specific time
    
27. 00:52:351 - This is probably the most awkward and weird part of the entire map, (yes even weirder than the ending) this is what i am mostly complaining about, no matter how much i retry it it's always hard to weird, always hard to execute, plays out poorly and has nothing consistent about it's patterns, most of the jacks are long and aren't mini ones like displayed here, and you haven't added short LNs for consistency too, you might have you proper justification for it but i consider it improper for what it is, and a difficulty spike at that, why mix streams with mini jacks? does it follow the same pitch you make for jacks properly? why does the ending have chord jack when the second one below it have 1 for each mini jack? it's not the same thing i recognize with your style and pattern scheme, i can suggest you change it with better execution for the jacks and more flow for the patterns, also be sure to use LNs or short ones, alot of opportunity to use those too. it's just how i feel it, and sorry for the rant but it's my most detestable part, haha. already discuss this reason why i remain now
    
28. 00:54:645 - maybe adding short 1/4 LNs for the guitar sound i'm hearing would be more appropriate? not guitar, it's kinda deep drum which added 1/4 normal note.
    
29. 00:55:175 - with sections like these too. I think you can make the section a bit more fun and consistent to the pattern scheme making them 1/4 short LNs wait, does this part has 1/4? i cant hear it
    
30. 01:08:586 (68586|4,68763|0) - If you're trying out PR like the previous ones, i was thinking you could probably reverse these for a more accurate pitch. following correct pitch might break your quality patterns, remember that.
    
31. 01:15:645 (75645|6,75998|4) - I feel like these shouldn't be 2 LNs, feel like it should be 4, why limiting it to only regular notes for the rest of the split? yes, the regular note beside LN is rest of violin note, its my mapping like
    
32. 01:16:351 - I'm not so sure about these since i can't hear it properly but it sounds very similar to the intro LNs like the ones at 00:25:527 - Etc. Which is why i recommend making it something more consistent like those, it seemed to work that time and it's very nice to play in, pretty good! yeah you noticed that, i was refer from that timeline . i fix the pattern bit here make more consistent
    
33. 01:17:763 - So, i'm not sure this section in-particular has a specific purpose here, the 1/4 LNs here while it is technically okay it seemed dull, like not interesting compared to the rest of the map, i can say that i can here 1/2s that could be LNs that may end up a bit more interesting (ofcourse you can still keep the 1/4 if you decided to add 1/2s) and i could recommend also to make it more Pitch relevant, but it depends entirely on whether you want to make the section more interesting by working on it or not, but i'd still thing it's a good idea. only this part i release for 1/4 LNs which good way to follow it as epic chorus.
    
34. 01:21:998 - Poor you, they made you change the LN shield didn't they? i thought it was interesting but i guess when you look at it in different comparison mainly consistency it could be an issue, but fear not! i was thinking of maybe you can do your LN style for it, remember the white columns? how about you do something like that to rearrange it? it could work, i remember something in your ANiMA diff that contained something like that so it would work like that too. that LN still too early for our ages of osumania rn, so i remapped again make it easier
    
35. 01:23:410 - Same thing as i said about it above i guess, pretty much a more optimal idea, but this is a test of determination on how badly you want to bother yourself to improve the map's pliability's side. ^
    
36. 01:26:233 - Well to be fair, this isn't the same one earlier which i'm not fond of, it's pretty different and i wouldn't know if it's consistent so whichever option you went with i could recommend going with what you did earlier. kawawa recommend me this pattern, i did last part was a mess
    
37. 01:27:645 (87645|4,87645|6,87998|4,87998|6,88175|6,88175|4,88351|6,88351|4) - Okay, what i have to say about this is that it's weird, it's inconsistent a bit and i can hear difference in pitch so why keep it the same columns? try varying it a bit. isn't same sound? to make it vary could eat some column spacing.
    
38. 01:34:704 - My only complaint about this is that it's on an odd column compared to the rest of the jacks, you should make it in an even column so it would be symmetrical enough and also consistent/ better pliability aswell, maybe the columns like the ones at 00:22:704 - would work. this current column works better cause if i move it to 2 and 6 it will affect of this note 01:34:527 (94527|1) - if you point playability
    
39. 01:38:939 - this could feel more like a stack rather than ascending notes to pitch, it should leave the pattern scheming better too. make it stack
    
    
40. 01:40:351 (100351|5,100439|5,100704|4,100792|4,101057|5,101145|5) - I don't find this really consistent with your theme, however i thought making these bracket mini jacks would suit the map more, so the ones i highlighted move them by one column to the left (as in column 5 4 5) moved them
    
41. 01:44:057 (104057|4,104145|3,104233|2,104322|3,104410|4,104498|3) - there should be a more proper ladder pattern for this that doesn't revolve around the middle column and that it could follow pitch in a good manner too, so i'm suggesting that rearranged
    
42. 02:02:939 - Honestly this could be varied a bit, and my opinion on it is that it's dull and too bland for my taste, and you could make them a bit varied or you could use LNs for it or SVs that would probably suit it better. nice idea, lets have a try
    
43. 02:03:822 - Ok so, my complaint about this section is that the whole LNs feel awkward, like the previous LNs felt a good wonky feeling, while this one felt a bad wonky feeling, i feel like this section could have been better in terms of pliability, because something like 02:05:410 (125410|0,125586|1,125586|0,125763|0,125763|1,125763|2) - is pretty awkward and hand bias towards the section, and you can make it a bit Pitch relevant, but if this is your only reason for it then i heavily suggest you reconsider, never ever sacrifice pliability for PR, and you told me that, remember? i really would like giving you ideas about this but i don't want to because i don't want to ruin your vision and style for the map, your patterns are unique and i want it to stay but you need to take the good part of your style and separate it from these sorts of patterns, hope you make the right decision pew. this is 2015 pattern, i can't be a good like i was active before..to modify this pattern im all out already. mentioning about PR was my terms but don't overdo or will suffer your patterns. i change move little gap of this LN to make it easier play 02:04:880 - 02:05:586 -
    
44. 02:07:175 - now this felt rather odd to me because it sounded very similar to 00:35:410 - so i was thinking going back to that would be a better idea overall for consistency and better pattern choice (man i really love the first patterns felt really fun) it's totally different on the past lelel
    
45. 02:13:704 (133704|1,133792|1,133880|2,133925|1,134013|2) - This is very awkward and it's really hard and feels uncomfortable to hit, i can recommend changing the pattern scheme for the 3 note ladder overall, something like http://puu.sh/vWYjs/072b2d4419.png could work too. your img has some trouble on middle note before jack parts would affect/interrupt your mashing . got another idea? this current pattern already fit 3 notes on right column
    
46. 02:15:645 - This actually felt more awkward than the previous one, and uncomfortable to hit, especially when you hit the notes on top of LNs like that, which i think can be improved to be more playable and have pitch relevancy too, this is just some ideas i have but you should try and find good ways to remap it with the white columns for your style of mapping. remap is too absurd way , this pattern quite similar at 02:04:351 - if you found it, and shorten LN strings due cover with clap/snare note make it more brilliant gameplay this kind of pattern.
    
47. 02:17:939 - also i don't know if i mentioned it before, but i can tell this could be better being either 1/2 or 1/4 LNs more rather than regular notes, making it have more LNs would be better for the pattern scheme of things, which is something i advise you to do for the map more. violin already took as LN, so let the melody stay remain as normal note
    
48. 02:19:175 - Now about this, i don't want to give you an essay about changing it but i want to ask you a question, do you think this is the best pattern you can represent the 1/8 with? is this pattern really anti use for farmers trying to pass this map? is it in anyway a suitable match for this map and patterns you displayed and the own mapping style you are using? if you don't think that, then try thinking really hard on what you can possibly do to turn it into a non bland spam-able pattern, while you think that making it into that pattern for pliability, this is actually pretty rush-able but people can still spam it, so you should ask around or experiment, please consider this as it's one of the crucial part for the map. if you have another idea for 2notes 1/8 pattern? however there's a trick you could able to fc this part. just spam it and don't look them like a stair.
    
49. 02:32:586 (152586|5) - This probably doesn't matter but i think it plays out a bit nicely if it was on the 4th column. moved
    
50. 02:32:939 - Now, about the ending, if you want to make the chart difficult for spammers you should be focusing on making the jacks more diverse in patterning instead of the same ones on some columns because if anything that gives the spammers an advantage, people suggested you to use the right jack left jack one but you didn't like it, but if you should find something more consistent with the long jack theme and also un spammable for the players, i can only think about this, you should really sit and think about it for a while, this would be the way players would be satisfied with how the ending played out, you should really consider possibilities, and i hope you wont let me down expew, show them how skilled in creative thinking you really are!. i guess i did same explain to someone else this part the reason why i did anti spam note at ending part and im not going to say it here , here read this conversation p/5948240.
    

Well, hope this helped 'w'
And if you decided about the ending and the 1/8 stream, you should return the original HP to how it was considering you made it harder, i put alot of effort into modding this to be suitable and at the same time not spam-able for players, hope we can see this set be in the ranked section soon buddy~

Ryzen wrote:

Mod from nowhere

Infection

01:07:969 (67969|3) - should be on 1/8? 01:08:013 - wait confirm by someone since i don't have headset rn
01:08:101 - missed something here? there's no sound here,
01:08:675 (68675|1) - should be on 1/8? 01:08:719 - same problem

Maybe consider reduce the max Jack from 12 to 10. This map shouldn't be like Another Lie's Beethoven [he's doing jack like your old ver of infection]

Kuo Kyoka wrote:

Ikuzo! Ikuzo!!

NXTKitKat wrote:

Random star shooting because I love this map

Critical_Star wrote:

merry christmas flomas
i really want to give this a go, here are just a little suggestion about last diff.
lower diff are good to me.

Infection

about the jacking part at 02:32:939 - i do think is kinda hard to hit them properly.
my suggestion > here
i think u can get the concept of the jack part here at 3-5 col
it still feel nice while keeping your jack intention here

Arzenvald wrote:

may take a look also holysh the BG is fabulous

folder usage okay, the sp 1|8 file though, its kinda too loud compared with other hitsound, consider to reduce the hitsound level to 30%
and maybe :

[Hard]
02:19:175 (139175|2) - use 1/4 here, Hard to Insane has quiet a huge gap (so you can use that weird SP hitsound too lol)

Unpredictable wrote:

soon? (ʘᗩʘ’)

Starry- wrote:

~ ♥

Tofu1222 wrote:

When?

Feerum wrote:

👀

Kuo Kyoka wrote:

This is so cancer, alexa plays beethoven influenza

Gekido- wrote:

Couldn't get it ranked with the jacks, let's wait a while so we can try again!

KeppSado wrote:

hi

something i find to be kinda weird is the hitsounding. there's a lot of inconsistency in hitsounding between difficulties which is fine, maybe the diffs are following different sounds with their layering or something. but there's a lot of instances in which the layering and hitsounding are following the same sounds, but different samples are used which comes off as rather strange.

these are from insane diff compared to infection
00:44:233 - https://osu.ppy.sh/ss/11830030 both diffs are following percussion, but why are both snare_D and snare_L used in insane but only snare_L is used in infection?
can consider as missing hitsounds, it hard to check hitsounds with my current lappy since i lost hitsound template diff.

00:54:292 - https://osu.ppy.sh/ss/11830184 in insane kick_D is followed by kick_L but its the opposite in infection.
ops, this is an error. maybe i arrange the pattern might affect note placement hitsounds while i didnt open the hitsounds sample due FPS drop dramatically.

01:21:998 - https://osu.ppy.sh/ss/11830333 both difficulties are following percussion again, but according to the hs in infection a kick and crash plays here but in insane only a crash plays even though insane is also following the kick sounds since 01:22:704 (82704|0) - has kick_L applied to it
In Insane i ignore the kick base sounds focus only the violin, however each repeat chorus i add the crash to make different on HD a bit.

this isn't only limited to these 2 diffs and these examples, but it'd be cool to know the reasoning behind these hitsound choices