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Drop - Granat

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iHatePeople
142 posts
Joined April 2015
iHatePeople
Why a Light Insane map have in the final of song changes in SV of x1,50 and then x2,00?
Beautiful in Editor, but Terrible and Horrible play this, totally unpredictable, the same in the middle of music, if you want to change the SV, change in max 1,5
Antares-
260 posts
Joined December 2012
Antares-
honestly, I can't see how it plays "terrible and horrible", because it seems perfectly fine for me, in middle part 1/2 gaps between sliders are making htting it trivial, so I decided to keep it

after discussing with diri. we changed finale to 1.25x-1.0x.-0.75x though to better express music

thanks for your time!
Seijiro
osu! Alumni
3,438 posts
Joined April 2013
Seijiro

MrSergio wrote:

Having a beginner in the set is frankly not needed at all. The easy is already easy enough, not to mention the song is short
Like.. seriously... 00:32:111 (1) - 10 secs of slider. Just why, it's boring as hell
well, I guess I was too prone to accept this since I considered my opinion to be not so relevant (oh, looks like I'm apparently someone whose opinion is actually valuable in this context tho. I didn't know this :^) )

Apart from that ^ , I do see the Beginner as pointless in the set tho and I told you at least a couple of times already.
My reasons are mainly that 1) it is hella boring with that 10 secs sliderart and 2) it ignores a lot, and I mean A LOT, of rhythms in the song. At this point it is like normally clicking at random since the pauses between each click is huge. You barely have any resilient trace of ~rhythm~.

It is ok to make something easy for new players, but this is already a 40 sec song and you pretend to even simplify this more than what is actually needed.
Unless our new players are really at such level to require something like this, obviously.
Arphimigon
1,650 posts
Joined December 2014
Arphimigon

MrSergio wrote:

Unless our new players are really at such level to require something like this, obviously.
Perfect for me when I started, would love to have more way simplified maps like this
diraimur
547 posts
Joined December 2013
Topic Starter
diraimur
i had tries playing osu with trackpad sometime, and surprisingly enough i couldnt really pass most easy difficulties in sets since i dont really know how to use trackpad in osu, and i did use trackpad before in my life for other stuff so its not like i have 0 knowledge of it.

considering someone who isnt too familiar with computers and wanted to play osu, most easy diffs are actually too hard for them and i believe that is where krfawys beginner is necessary.i also dont really believw the map doesnt hinders the sets quality by any means whatsoever.
Myxo
osu! Alumni
3,103 posts
Joined December 2012
Myxo
I wanted to wait for a proper reply from Krfawy, but might as well throw this in here now.

I know that a lot of beginners struggle with the Easys we have, that's no question. But you'll find this situation in nearly every rhythm game and there is a simple reason: Reducing the difficulty too much will result in rhythmic simplifications to such an extent that the relation to the music is ruined, which goes against the concept of a rhythm game. If you are making a platformer game you can create a tutorial stage as easy as you want because you are the one who fully decides about the concept of the stage, how many obstacles there are etc. But for a rhythm game you are bound to what the song provides, and this doesn't only have an upper limit but also a lower limit, because there's a line (that has been crossed here) where the rhythms become unidentifiable.

It's nice that you are having contact to newbies and ask them how easy it is for them to get into the game and how well they play certain things. Have you ever asked them though, how much do they feel that osu! maps relate to the actual song? Most people I've talked to, especially those with some musical knowledge who aren't satisfied with simply 'doing well-timed clicks to the beat', don't get how most modern Easys relate to the song at all. I've had people literally asking me what about osu! is supposed to be a rhythm game. And this map is a very extreme case of this issue.

Now, I didn't point out specific rhythms where I see those issues before, because it basically applies to the whole map. However, I will do this now, to make my point more clear. I really don't want to create any confusion with what I am saying here. With the conception in mind, that the whole map is supposed to follow the melody (which I can see only because I have some experience in mapping, I highly doubt newbies will be able to see this):
00:00:281 (1,2,3,4) - In this part of the song, there is clear emphasis on the switch between strings and the other melody instrument. The repeated sliders go well with the soft instrument, but then the strings have a much more dense, strong rhythm that puts emphasis on much more than just 00:03:265 (2,4) - these beats.
00:08:238 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4) - The long sliders fit well to the long melody notes in the music in theory, however (again, due to the extreme rhythmic simplicity) the same rhythm is used multiple times in a row, while the music is so different each time. 00:10:227 - has no sound, 00:14:206 - has a sound, 00:18:185 - has no sound again (from the melody). What the melody does, also in terms of how strong certain notes are played, is different in each measure here, however it's all mapped with the same, monotonous rhythms.
00:24:153 (1,2,3,4,5,6) - Once again, 00:24:153 (1,2,3) - actually fits the melody quite well, because there is very strong emphasis on those beats here, but between those objects 00:26:143 (3,4) - the instrument clearly builds up in intensity to lead back into 00:28:132 - to repeat the rhythm again. Having more density in between those objects would ressemble the song better, but as it is now it's all just 3/1-rhythms without much emphasis at all.
00:32:111 (1,1) - And yes, I still stand by my point that the long slider is out of place if it covers the most intense section of the song completely. Not clicking at all throughout this whole section takes away all kind of rhythm emphasis from this section, where it's probably needed the most. About the last note, Okorin already explained that there are equally important beats around it.

So yeah, I hope this can serve as a better explanation why I disagree with the rhythm this map uses.



Now, to talk about the spacing again. No matter what way you put it, 0.4x DS in this case is so low that there is almost no movement required for the timeframe of almost a whole second (gap between two of the beats followed). It makes no sense in the context of a map because almost no movement means basically no emphasis through movement. All of the objects in the map might as well be stacked and it would make no difference gameplay wise (not counting readability). Saying that a higher spacing would be too difficult to play for newbies is unreasonable, because the sliders themselves are significantly faster and require more precision during their timeframe (due to sliderticks having to be aimed, etc.). Krfawy, you basically said that players can aim the sliders well, even on this realatively high speed (which is true) but if the spacing were higher they couldn't aim the circles? It makes no sense.

I hope my points are a bit more clear now, since people also requested me to point out examples. Here we go.
Seijiro
osu! Alumni
3,438 posts
Joined April 2013
Seijiro

Arphimigon wrote:

MrSergio wrote:

Unless our new players are really at such level to require something like this, obviously.
Perfect for me when I started, would love to have more way simplified maps like this
My statement was clearly implying sarcasm. This sort of rhythms can't be called rhythms anymore considering how clicks are spaced apart lol.
A song is made by pauses between notes, but if such pauses are too long it will be just a bunch of notes played from time to time. That's not a song anymore imo and therefore a map is not possible on it.

Please don't come up with excuses as "when I tried to play with trackpad" or "when I was a newbie..." because I bet you don't remember exactly and as Desp said, even if you do remember you probably couldn't analyze things properly at the time.

Also, notice this is not a personal attack towards anyone. I (or we) just want to make sense out of it, if I can say it that way...


#m0d
diraimur
547 posts
Joined December 2013
Topic Starter
diraimur
Finally done with that piece of worthless junk. Crap, Krfawy, when you started making things like Kac (TV Size) and Prologue, I actually started getting my hopes up that you were finally going to break out of your terrible Slut Off and Caged Heart stage and start cranking out truly admirable maps. Even though Wiosna raised a red flag or two, I still had high hopes. And then this self-indulgent pretentious abomination gets vomitted onto the site. This is not only your worst map, but possibly the worst map I have ever seen. Why? Others were bad as satire, ignorance, age, or inexperience. You qualify for none of these categories, you have no excuse. Believe me, I have nothing against Instrumental Songs, be it piano, guitar, or flute. And I have no problem with someone in the osu community championing the genre as a flagship of broadening horizons. What I do have a problem with is that you, the person championing it, have absolutely no respect for the music or its structure. At the slightest strum of a guitar or hit of a snare drum, you are more than happy to start disregarding the music and just throwing ugly and pointless anti-jumps where you just make the distance and position anywhere you feel like, no matter how awful the end result is. This vulgar excuse for a map reeks of every stupid and arrogant Krfawism the community has had to bear witness to: Extreme anti-jumps with no musical reasoning, sky low DS at all times, streams that just not decide to jump to some random part of the playing field with no warning because you didn't map streams, buckshot spread patterns with no cohesive structure, no streams that space out to absurd degrees because again, they don't exist, rampant abuse of no SV changes and no BPM modification to cover up lazy mapping, slider anti-jumps that clearly are just cases of Ctrl+H and Ctrl+J abuse, and worst of all, using the music genre as your own little shield to justify every little moment of "I map like this because fuck you, I'm Krfawy" you can stuff in your pathetic and self-subservient maps. Stop using songs as canvases for your abhorrent "artistry", stop using your cult of personality to force your lazy work on others, and stop thinking that maps are good just because a computer designed to perfectly perform with flaw can manage to beat it.
Arphimigon
1,650 posts
Joined December 2014
Arphimigon

MrSergio wrote:

Please don't come up with excuses as "when I tried to play with trackpad" or "when I was a newbie..." because I bet you don't remember exactly and as Desp said, even if you do remember you probably couldn't analyze things properly at the time.
No, I do play with trackpad and these kind of easier difficulties are great for it.
And I may not remember exactly what it was like to be new, but I do have many new players as friends and I play many easy maps myself. Now I can analyze them now and still have this position, my points still stay the same.

Desperate wrote:

Krfawy, you basically said that players can aim the sliders well, even on this realatively high speed (which is true) but if the spacing were higher they couldn't aim the circles? It makes no sense.
My replay says otherwise, had just as much trouble on the circles as the sliders

Simplified rhythm isn't "non rhythm game" like, it's a simple difficulty for a game. It still has a rhythm, and even yet, the rhythm exists.
Starrodkirby86
osu! Alumni
3,723 posts
Here since the beginning
Starrodkirby86
Oh geez... :| I certainly hope this situation isn't going to get any worse. While there are lots of controversy for Extra difficulties and the like, it's certainly unconventional to see so much attention set on a Beginner difficulty either. I know there are concerns about whether the difficulty, or lack thereof, in a map and whether it's trivial, but perhaps there could be improvements or at least a compromise that can make it work.

I don't think there really the one correct assessment of what a beginner should or should not expect aside from the standard mapset conventions we have existing. We could theorize or think about how the ideal newbie is going to play osu!, but we're going to have our own subjective views on it. My personal viewpoint, if it helps to improve everyone's perspectives, is that 181 BPM is on the upper echelon of speed, and while having constant 1/1 notes does follow Easy difficulty conventions, it can be a bit challenging for a player to try keeping up. So I can see that the Beginner difficulty has value in that the notes are spaced as if it's 90 BPM 1/1, though I do agree that the spacing could be increased a bit more, or perhaps a few more notes could be added. My perspective is based on the rhythms of DDR games though, and the Beginner difficulty generally follows that well, as the empty beats help give a player time to react, whereas the Easy difficulty is not as forgiving. Though one could say that the sliders may help with that reaction too, but I guess this is where hypothetical situations and theorycrafting reach imaginative levels.

But either way, it's going to be really difficult to contend for arguments like how beginner players are going to respond to this, since things can vary. I think, really, it's best for Krfawy to come by and discuss with Desperate's points he brought up and either agree, respectfully disagree, or work out a compromise between the two. The better matter would be addressing these concerns, and if in disagreement, why so.

With this much discussion, you can certainly see that there's a bit of tension and frustration in the room. While I don't think it's right for diri to make a meme post (albeit it gives me chuckles), I think we can all see as to why there's this kind of eggpain here. After all, the natural inclination would be to think, "Why focus so much attention on this? It's just a beginner difficulty, for crying out loud!". Though it's nice to see there be consideration for beginner players too.

I say just wait for what Krfawy has to say, and we all take it easy and see where we can go from there. Just relax and enjoy how cute and moe Granat-chan is. <3
Arphimigon
1,650 posts
Joined December 2014
Arphimigon
Best said by the one and only Kirby
diraimur
547 posts
Joined December 2013
Topic Starter
diraimur
ya, by no means my post was directed to anyone here, i was merely trying to chill the mood. if someone is offended from it feel free to remove/edit the post, but i personally think its pretty funny /me runs
Wafu
1,703 posts
Joined June 2011
Wafu
What do I think of beginner/low star difficulties (and why I make them and sometimes support people making them)

This might sound hypocritical from me, but I do have some objections about the beginner difficulty. I've done that several times, several times not extremely reasonably, but there was a certain philosophy behind it which I would like to elaborate a little bit.

Why do you need a beginner/low star difficulty? It was usually to not have only 2-diff spread for low-BPM or very calm songs, I didn't want to look like a lazy mapper. That is not super reasonable, but it still makes a little bit of sense. Another reason was because I wanted to give the Hard few jumps for emphasis - the map was still very calm, didn't need anything more than a bit easier hard, with some elements that usually appear in insane. That automatically means that the Normal cannot be as easy, it needs to remove few mapping techniques from the hard (jumps, spacing changes, 1/4 notes etc.) and decrease the overall density of objects. But that means that the real easy is missing. You don't need to include it, but if you want to, there's no issue about it, you will provide the map to one more group of people and more people might enjoy it in the result. The last reason I can remember of was to make a very introductory map for beginners, but when is it really needed? If there is an Easy in a regular pop song, it is usually won't happen, but sometimes the song is just so complicated that if you want to simplify in a consistent spread, the Easy will still keep the complicated rhythms. And that's not bad, it will learn you to get used to the complicated rhythms, then you can move to Normal etc. However, before that, you always need to know how to click properly to some constant and straightforward rhythm. In such a case, having a beginner difficulty is in my opinion more than welcome. Because newcomer will be able to play the map with a simplified rhythm, but won't be much interested in something that doesn't look constant to them.

Now, if I take a look at your map, being seen as a lazy mapper is probably not a problem in this mapset, so even though having only few diffs would not be extremely good reason for having a pointless difficulty, we have more than enough here. Easy->Advanced mostly only change SV, spacing and density. Not many skill-based techniques are added, easy is not forced to be complicated rhythmically nor movement-wise, so the second and third idea also don't apply much. However, yes, the easy is not as easy as some people would expect due to the slider velocity etc., so maybe some kind of introductory difficulty would be acceptable, I would not have much against that.

Nevertheless, they way you chose to map it is not probably the best one. If you are really attempting to provide a difficulty that should introduce the players to the game and you are afraid that current easy is too hard, yeah, go with some beginner, but keep in mind that you want to simplify the song rather than to skip certain parts of the song. The introductory difficulties with help in 3 ways - It work the same as a tutorial, you have enough time to realise that you have to click and aim etc., the thing it will teach you is to hold some constant rhythm - it will teach you to play the important sounds accurately, and the last point is that it will teach you the time-distance rule, which is useful in the beginning as most E-H maps use constant spacing.

Actually addressing the issue

1. Issue - Ignoring sounds

I would understand this: 00:00:281 (1) - You are skipping really unimportant parts of the song, only the guitar/harp (or whatever plucked string instrument it is). But things like: 00:08:238 (1) - 00:12:217 (3) - 00:16:196 (1) - are quite an abuse of the whole importance of the difficulty just for sake of slider art. You are omitting important sounds that are basically the only important thing in such a basic difficulty. New players don't need to know how to hold a slider for 2 seconds if they can learn to click properly instead, which is giving them some actual skill. 00:32:111 (1) - This would be obvious, quite an intense part of the song, but the slider just ignores anything it has and forces you to hold it for like 8 seconds.

If you think about it, easy is pretty much full of 1/1 and 2/1 sliders and circles (also 1/1 or 2/1). The beginner however uses 3/1 sliders (mostly with repeats), which would be fine, but also a plenty of 6/1 sliders and even a 24/1 slider and some circles with about 3/1 gaps. The difference is very major and it is not even filling the purpose that an introductory difficulty could have. You could easily map sounds such as 00:09:233 - 00:13:212 - instead of the pointlessly long sliders and you would take the constant rhythm (that will teach newbies something) back. Now, you can think about this part, 00:32:111 (1) - you don't necessarily need to get away all the slider art. You can notice that sounds like 00:33:105 - on the sliders are quite unattractive for clicking, they are not significant enough, however each other sound like 00:34:100 - 00:36:090 - 00:38:079 - is kind of a strum, which is more significant and maybe would also be worth mapping. This time, you could use the 6/1 sliders with your slider art - not only the part sounds somewhat mysterious (might be fitting well for interesting shapes), it will also not ignore important sounds that occur here, will provide a more constant and sensible rhythm and most importantly, will get a rid off the difference between the next difficulty.

2. Spacing/SV

While I think the SV is pretty playable for any newbie, they way objects are placed is going against any time-distance rule. You tend to move on the slider for about the same amount as you would move from object to object for the same amount of time. It might be a bit lower, but less then half looks like an extreme to me, just for sake of making an easier difficulty. Again, this won't help newbies in any way, the will be resting for seconds on the same place instead of actually having to write the movement into their hands. The stacks you are using are not doing it much better, there is almost no motion that would teach the newbies anything and it just creates a bit unpleasant reading. Objects clustered in one place are not always perceived in a good way.

That's probably all I'd like to say here. I don't aim this directly at Krfawy nor anyone who stands behind him. I'm just giving some of my subjective opinion + arguments for why it doesn't necessarily need to be completely purged, but also why it is not 100% alright and doesn't actually help as much as it could if you are going for any kind of introductory difficulty.
Aniviuh
216 posts
Joined January 2015
Aniviuh
- Normal -
(In my opinion I really don't like the whistle place ment here, I prefer it on every 1st and or 3rd "4th note" white tick i mean.)
00:05:254 (3,4) - Shouldn't 3 be a slider and 4 be a circle?
00:10:227 (1,2) - Shouldn't this combo be like before? Why did you change the rythm?
00:38:079 (1) - I feel like that this slider should end at 39:737 and the spinner should start 40:068.
- Mk's Hard -
00:34:432 (2,3) - These should stack like the other two that are after this.
- Antaraes' Light Insane - <Is it supposed to be spelled like that lul
00:14:704 (4) - I know that you were intending on making this cool pattern, but the song doesn't represent it. Why did the spacing change when the music didn't?
00:15:699 (4) - ^
00:32:608 (4) - ^
00:33:603 (4) - ^

I hope this helped!
Antares-
260 posts
Joined December 2012
Antares-

ViolentBoo wrote:

- Antaraes' Light Insane - <Is it supposed to be spelled like that lul close enough lol
00:14:704 (4) - I know that you were intending on making this cool pattern, but the song doesn't represent it. Why did the spacing change when the music didn't? the point of actual pattern is to emphasize slider (5) without stacking and i think antijump here plays pretty well and it's more fun than equality in DS, same for rest obviously
thanks for your mod!
Krfawy
1,374 posts
Joined March 2012
Krfawy
Since I received quite a massive response on the particular moments of my map with the very clear instructions on what the BNG and the staff actually mean, I would like to address your points of view properly too! Also, I've finally finished my first part of the examination session at college so I finally have time to log in osu. YAY!

The SV & spacing concept seems to be the most problematic issue as from the technical point of view the pace of the sliders and the spacing values should be as close as possible for the sake of the timing-movement theory which in most cases would be said to be correct and set as an exemplary master form. However, the problem starts here in the structural point. As long as that would seem logical to follow, the problem is the sliders are already fast due to the high BPM where it could have been set to something slower but I didn't want to make it unsuitably low due to the point, as pointed by Desperate, that the actual SV is acceptable and friendly enough for the playerbase, nor did I want to provide the settings that would provide difficulty spikes. The problem is that the playerbase (noobs) will only be able to entirely focus on one difficult aspect of the play which in this case is the SV. In this scenario, the lower spacing that brings relatively small portions of movement (a reminder: "small" ≠ "without" or "merely"), the better. In this map I've been using "slider-circle" patterning where we have to remember clicking circles requires gravely more accuracy and aim than the sliders. What I'm trying to say is that newer players will be at least depressed and/or angry if we compile two factors together: the relatively high spacing and the relatively high slider velocity in one mass. As long as the mapping community might say the technique used here is uncommon and aberrant it actually brings the balance between the fast pace of the slider and the ability to aim another note without trying to assess how fast the players have to move the cursor and click with it. Beginner difficulties are supposed to introduce the players to the rhythmical game but the Easy difficulty on this set would be too demanding with its "slider velocity = distance" settings. Obviously, yes, the easy difficulty is comparatively easy to the already ranked Granat sets but the problem is the most of the mappers probably focused on mapping them in the "easy and legible patterns" but not "easy enough for the newer audience" fashion, and yes, these are maps to be seen as the ones with the spacings and velocities having similar values. My complaint here is as written a few lines before: the skills required for these Easies and Normals are still too high for someone who has just started the game. As long as technically they do not contain issues or mistakes, the technicality is not the only gauge of what actually makes the map appropriate as the easiest difficulty on the set. Right now I would like everyone to read these words carefully: due to the fact that I am a noob player that knows what plays like a true easy and due to the fact that I've been spending most of my time on this mapping field I can tell what is easy enough and what is not. What I'm trying to say is that people who have posted their concers on the Beginner difficulty are not new players, neither are they people who can't play this game properly and the people complaining are saying one basic thing that can be stated as "the general simplification of the rhythm in this map to the most basic claps and kicks doesn't work as it happens to be done in an extreme way that follows too little sounds where there are more sounds that do exist and that do need to be stressed and followed with more logically placed notes as right now the rhythm is too basic, so ruined, and it doesn't provide any actual feedback for the audience targeted." The issue is that the people mentioning these issues are people who do not think in the way the noobs think, namely "the simpler, the better" and they do not notice the difference between simplifying the rhythm and the music at the same time with tickrates and sliderheads and sliderends like in this moment: 00:08:238 (1) - when the objects probably would have been changed into around 3-5 objects instead of this slider right here if the difficulty were mapped by them. As long as I understand the concers about the difficulty containing very simple rhythms I do not take the comment "it's too basic and it doesn't follow the rhythms and the song anymore" as that's a typical behaviour from people who do not understand the abstract thinking of the people who cannot play anything harder than 1-star maps. I am not trying to offend anyone here except Bathory but simply I cannot expect people with your playing skills and more demanding way of thinking to understand what is the actual, real and desired design of the actual beginner difficulty for such a song due to a simple fact: your depiction of a Beginner difficulty starts with rhythms that create a difficulty that would be called by us, the noobs, a hard and quite dense Easy difficulty or a Normal difficulty.

If the text is too long for you, Irre wrote pretty much everything in a self-explanatory (and way shorter) way a few days ago and actually explained most of my ideas: *CLICK*

About the stacks - these are totally playable for the noobs, tested myself, tested by other noobs and not-so-nooby noobs as well. Also they stress the most audible and significant sounds of the... er... instruments? I am unsure what exactly is used there... Still, even though the stacks are usually problematic, these are made in an approachable way.

And about the jellyfish pattern there: 00:32:111 (1) - due to the high density of the sounds here I've decided to do the most common thing used in most easier difficulties in the moments when there are lots of sounds that would be mapped but not with reversing or circles but with a long slider that would stress the particular strums (thank you for the word Wafu, I didn't know this one and it happens to be very helpful here) with slider ticks. However, Oko pointed a very important part about the sounds starting from there: 00:38:079 - I am going to redesign the slider a bit and put a few more notes to stress the change in the music in order to stress the significant sounds there. I am going to spare the spinner though, I am sure people would kill me if I removed the spinner and so far I don't think there is any more appropriate place for it. However, if it were just for me, I would kill the slider with a circle or a sliderend, but the community spinning the spinners are more important I guess. <___<

Guys, I see your concers why you think the difficulty is bad as I've ommited (I'd say "simplified") the rhythms in the fashion done but it's definitely not the case where I put 2 sliders a single circle and a spinner in the whole difficulty and I am not sure whether you're telling me the difficulty is bad just because of the high BPM or because you see it as something undermapped and as something that "could fit on to any song with a waltz metronome". Definitely the latter option is not the case.

EDIT: Updated Beginner down there:

KRFAWY
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TitleUnicode:Granat
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Version:Krfawy's Beginner
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Tags:Krfawy Mkguh Akali Kyshiro Rohit6 Antares- Arphimigon Starrodkirby86 seifuu meigetsu ryuu to honoo no monogatari dragon and flame 竜と炎の物語清風明月
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diraimur
547 posts
Joined December 2013
Topic Starter
diraimur
updated, i hope that krfawy's post has shed some light to whats going on, and that issues will be solved peacefully if there are further considerations with the difficulty.
Myxo
osu! Alumni
3,103 posts
Joined December 2012
Myxo
It's okay then, moving on.
polka
1,125 posts
Joined March 2014
polka

Desperate-kun wrote:

It's okay then, moving on.
That passive aggressiveness tho.
Mir
osu! Alumni
2,151 posts
Joined July 2016
Mir
Beginner difficulty: 00:32:111 (1) - is slightly offscreen even in 16:9.

Image

also I love how there's literally 22 objects mapped for beginner...
Krfawy
1,374 posts
Joined March 2012
Krfawy
Oh dear, I didn't expect that happening...

...once again. ;3;

BEGINNER
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TitleUnicode:Granat
Artist:Drop
ArtistUnicode:Drop
Creator:diraimur
Version:Krfawy's Beginner
Source:
Tags:Krfawy Mkguh Akali Kyshiro Rohit6 Antares- Arphimigon Starrodkirby86 seifuu meigetsu ryuu to honoo no monogatari dragon and flame 竜と炎の物語清風明月
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iHatePeople
142 posts
Joined April 2015
iHatePeople
[Beginner]

00:32:111 (1) - This slide no match with song, because the curves don't emphasy with the white ticks. I recommend make another pattern like this:
SPOILER

[Light Insane]

Again, 2,0x SV in a light insane it's not cool, ever you play this part 00:23:158 (1) - you will slide break or get a 100, and no one player who play in 4,75 star must have problem with a light insane.

00:23:158 (1) - SV: 1,5x, the same in 00:22:661 (1) - < this is totally playable in this difficult.
00:23:490 (2) - SV: 1,25x
00:23:822 (3) - SV: 1,0x
Antares-
260 posts
Joined December 2012
Antares-

iHatePeople wrote:

[Light Insane]
Again, 2,0x SV in a light insane it's not cool, ever you play this part 00:23:158 (1) - you will slide break or get a 100, and no one player who play in 4,75 star must have problem with a light insane.
And again, I miss what's your problem with pattern is - it's obviously not easy, but I believe it's perfectly playable at that skilllevel even if osu doesn't calculate difficulty for sliders correctly (which is not my fault honestly). Also I still need to find person who "play in 4,75 star" and have problem with that pattern. I could see issues with hitting last svpattern at finale (which is already fixed), but that one increases sv gradually and gives you a 1/1 gap to prepare. No offense, but that mod sounds more like "I can't play that" than "I find it bad". As I said, I'm not changing it and I thought I was pretty clear about my statement on that pattern in last response.
Ashton
1,939 posts
Joined February 2016
Ashton
whoops, looks lik-



*gets shot*
diraimur
547 posts
Joined December 2013
Topic Starter
diraimur
since MkGuh is ded i'll be responding mods for him soon, sorry for taking time
zigizigiefe
952 posts
Joined March 2013
zigizigiefe
ＲＥＢＵＢＢＬＥ　ＩＣＩＮ　ＰＵＳＵＤＡＹＩＺ
diraimur
547 posts
Joined December 2013
Topic Starter
diraimur
:(

ViolentBoo wrote:

- Normal -
(In my opinion I really don't like the whistle place ment here, I prefer it on every 1st and or 3rd "4th note" white tick i mean.)
00:05:254 (3,4) - Shouldn't 3 be a slider and 4 be a circle? nope would break consistency with 00:00:281 (1,2,3,4) -
00:10:227 (1,2) - Shouldn't this combo be like before? Why did you change the rythm? ther is a strong sound at 00:11:554 - , would be shame if it was ignored
00:38:079 (1) - I feel like that this slider should end at 39:737 and the spinner should start 40:068. eh slider end is stronger than spinner start, so i prefer to keep it.
- Mk's Hard -
00:34:432 (2,3) - These should stack like the other two that are after this. nop they are different pitchs
I hope this helped!
thanks for mod, since mkguh is ded i responded 4 him

iHatePeople wrote:

[Beginner]

00:32:111 (1) - This slide no match with song, because the curves don't emphasy with the white ticks. I recommend make another pattern like this:
SPOILER
what youve send is actually unrankable because slider path is not clear enough, and i believe slider right now is pretty good for what music goes like
i believe every mod is responded right now and we are ready for qualification!
Metaku
524 posts
Joined August 2015
Metaku
Some things I quickly picked up (idk if mentioned before)

[Mk's Normal]
00:00:281 (1,2,3,4) - I don't really like this rhythm here. As the song is 3/4 most of the time the strong beats are every 3 white ticks, so I don't know this just kinda sounds off. I just think a 1/1 circle 1/1 circle or circle 1/1 circle 1/1 rhythm would work better as the emphasis is on every 3 ticks. Most of the map follow that concept just fine so I don't know why here should be different. Basically a rhythm like this would be better fit imo 00:34:100 (1,2,3,4,1,2) -


[Mk's Hard]

00:00:944 (3) - I don't really like this slider here as it ignores the downbeat right after. I think a circle and a circle on downbeat or 1/2 + circle would work better here
00:04:922 (3) - same here
00:14:206 (1,2) - Same rhythm issue as I mentioned in normal, imo the strong ticks are actually here 00:14:206 - and here 00:14:704 - so maybe two repeats would work better here?
00:15:698 (5,6) - I don't really like how you skipped the red tick here 00:16:030 - as I feel it's stronger than the white tick where 6 currently is. I think you should move 6 or just add a circle in the red tick too. a slide to circle would work fine too as well
00:32:111 - 00:38:079 - I don't really like how this whole part is just 1/2 slides from white to red tick as I feel the emphasis should be every 3 hits like I mentioned earlier. Sure there is the faint humming in the back that follows the white white white 3/4 rhythm but the melody is clearly dominant here and I think this should be mapped accordingly.

[Antares' Light Insane]

00:14:206 (1,2,3,4,5) - I feel it would fit better if you made 4 a slider and added a circle where 5 ends now
00:32:608 (4,5) - same for the patterns here

[Arphimigon's Insane]

00:32:111 - For pretty much the same reason as above I think the part here should be nced 1 2 3 1 2 3 not 1 2 1 2 1 2 as the music is clearly 1 2 3 unlike here 00:02:270 (1,2,1,2,1,2) - where the 1 2 ncing actually fits


[Rohit's Insane]

00:23:490 (3,4,5,6) - I think this would look better if it was actually symmetrical

[Kyshiro's Extra]

00:39:737 (1) - I don't think this nc is needed here



So some of my explanations were kind of a mess but the point was I think the emphasis is on wrong notes on some places.
Antares-
260 posts
Joined December 2012
Antares-

Metaku wrote:

Some things I quickly picked up (idk if mentioned before)

[Antares' Light Insane]

00:14:206 (1,2,3,4,5) - I feel it would fit better if you made 4 a slider and added a circle where 5 ends now
for me 4 feels weaker than 5 so i think 5 shouldnt be a slidertail, no change here D:
00:32:608 (4,5) - same for the patterns here
i think 4/5 there are equally strong so pattern is okay, and slider on 5 gives more emphasis on next NC
thanks for feedback!
diraimur
547 posts
Joined December 2013
Topic Starter
diraimur
hello graveyard
im just not happy at the moment im not sure when ill be able fix my mental status and come back
Ashton
1,939 posts
Joined February 2016
Ashton
whoops, looks like diraimur dropped his life


rip, will forever remember you.
Voli
811 posts
Joined April 2013
Voli
00:23:822 (3,2) - antares pls
00:23:822 (3,2) -
00:23:822 (3,2) -
00:23:822 (3,2) -
00:23:822 (3,2) -
00:23:822 (3,2) - 00:23:822 (3,2) - 00:23:822 (3,2) - 00:23:822 (3,2) -







00:23:822 (3,2) -
Antares-
260 posts
Joined December 2012
Antares-
fixed sheeeeeesh
Protagonists
75 posts
Joined February 2012
Protagonists
[Advanced]
00:23:490 (5) - i prefer add a curved slider, here : 279,80,23490,2,0,P|216:80|164:45,1,128.000000596046,2|2,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
00:24:153 - because it's too far from 00:23:158 (4), try vertical flipping section 00:24:153 (1,2,3,4), and of course this is the reason why i assumming add a s[lider

[Antares's L.Insane]
00:24:153 (1) - add hitfinish

[Rohit's Insane]
00:42:058 (1) - placed at x256 y272

[Akali's Extreme]
00:03:265 (1) - add hitclap
Left
2,156 posts
Joined October 2014
Left
Omg what happened here
diraimur
547 posts
Joined December 2013
Topic Starter
diraimur

Left wrote:

Omg what happened here
;w;
diraimur
547 posts
Joined December 2013
Topic Starter
diraimur

Metaku wrote:

Some things I quickly picked up (idk if mentioned before)

[Mk's Normal]
00:00:281 (1,2,3,4) - I don't really like this rhythm here. As the song is 3/4 most of the time the strong beats are every 3 white ticks, so I don't know this just kinda sounds off. I just think a 1/1 circle 1/1 circle or circle 1/1 circle 1/1 rhythm would work better as the emphasis is on every 3 ticks. Most of the map follow that concept just fine so I don't know why here should be different. Basically a rhythm like this would be better fit imo 00:34:100 (1,2,3,4,1,2) - hm i see what you mean, the sections are different though, check the sound at 00:02:270 - and compare it to 00:36:090 -, first one is a lot stronger, so putting a slider b4 it will make that clickable note stronger while if you place a note before it, it will reduce the power since you will hold last note for lesser time


[Mk's Hard]

00:00:944 (3) - I don't really like this slider here as it ignores the downbeat right after. I think a circle and a circle on downbeat or 1/2 + circle would work better here i think its fine
00:04:922 (3) - same here same here
00:14:206 (1,2) - Same rhythm issue as I mentioned in normal, imo the strong ticks are actually here 00:14:206 - and here 00:14:704 - so maybe two repeats would work better here? hes not following that tho, if you listen carefully you'll realise its mapped to sth else
00:15:698 (5,6) - I don't really like how you skipped the red tick here 00:16:030 - as I feel it's stronger than the white tick where 6 currently is. I think you should move 6 or just add a circle in the red tick too. a slide to circle would work fine too as well ^
00:32:111 - 00:38:079 - I don't really like how this whole part is just 1/2 slides from white to red tick as I feel the emphasis should be every 3 hits like I mentioned earlier. Sure there is the faint humming in the back that follows the white white white 3/4 rhythm but the melody is clearly dominant here and I think this should be mapped accordingly. ^ same here

[Kyshiro's Extra]

00:39:737 (1) - I don't think this nc is needed here he nc'd every third note so i dont see the issue tbh



So some of my explanations were kind of a mess but the point was I think the emphasis is on wrong notes on some places.
thanks for the mod sorry for denials but its kinda hard to accept them when im not the owner
diraimur
547 posts
Joined December 2013
Topic Starter
diraimur

Runa_Hime wrote:

[Advanced]
00:23:490 (5) - i prefer add a curved slider, here : 279,80,23490,2,0,P|216:80|164:45,1,128.000000596046,2|2,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
00:24:153 - because it's too far from 00:23:158 (4), try vertical flipping section 00:24:153 (1,2,3,4), and of course this is the reason why i assumming add a s[lider i personally find current one fine, thanks for suggestion anyway

[Antares's L.Insane]
00:24:153 (1) - add hitfinish done

[Rohit's Insane]
00:42:058 (1) - placed at x256 y272 done

[Akali's Extreme]
00:03:265 (1) - add hitclap done
thanks for the mod
Nao Tomori
Nomination Assessment Team
3,090 posts
Joined December 2014
Nao Tomori
if you insist on having this idiotic bottom diff, can you at least align the slider direction (specifically, the really long one at 00:32:111 (1) - ) changes with the song to give it SOME semblance of following the music rather than just being there for a dumb meme
Krfawy
1,374 posts
Joined March 2012
Krfawy

Nao Tomori wrote:

if you insist on having this idiotic extremely beautiful and passionate bottom diff for those in need, can you at least align the slider direction (specifically, the really long one at 00:32:111 (1) - ) changes with the song to give it SOME semblance of following the music rather than just being there for a dumb meme blonde bimbo
Should be better now! o3o/

BEGINNER
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AudioLeadIn: 0
PreviewTime: 115
Countdown: 0
SampleSet: Soft
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Bookmarks: 38079
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TitleUnicode:Granat
Artist:Drop
ArtistUnicode:Drop
Creator:diraimur
Version:Krfawy's Beginner
Source:
Tags:Krfawy Mkguh Akali Kyshiro Rohit6 Antares- Arphimigon Starrodkirby86 seifuu meigetsu ryuu to honoo no monogatari dragon and flame 竜と炎の物語清風明月
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BeatmapSetID:501992

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CircleSize:3.5
OverallDifficulty:2.5
ApproachRate:0.5
SliderMultiplier:0.759999999999999
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413,36,29127,1,2,0:0:0:0:
413,36,30121,2,0,B|355:1|282:8|323:39|251:46|194:14,1,228,2|2,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
105,37,32111,6,0,B|97:90|49:134|49:134|-9:184|24:246|24:246|77:254|106:294|106:294|151:325|253:336|348:300|380:174|307:-9|119:52|43:158|77:254|151:325|204:340|204:340|253:336|293:371|293:371|362:357|363:280|363:280|365:215|402:175,1,1368,2|2,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
457,102,39074,1,2,0:0:0:0:
365,97,40068,6,0,P|257:125|151:86,1,228,2|2,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
256,192,42058,12,0,44047,0:0:0:0:
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