brexitKisses wrote:
tbh I actually don't care about what happens in america at all
brexitKisses wrote:
tbh I actually don't care about what happens in america at all
july 4th 1776Hika wrote:
brexitKisses wrote:
tbh I actually don't care about what happens in america at all
Rurree wrote:
At least only the suspect is dead. Shootings really do happen way too often, but at least they didn't end up like Virginia Tech.
he can make any conversation intellectually engaginglol wrote:
can u imagine railey in a conversation that isnt even slightly intellectually engaging because i cantHika wrote:
you don't need it it's the internet
die we just call it tomato sauce or whatever. im a student, i dont actually cookFoxtrot wrote:
you don't know what marinara is and yet you have a concept of intellectuality
using big words does not make change seriousness of a conversationAomi wrote:
he can make any conversation intellectually engaging
Even then there are still way too many.Yuudachi-kun wrote:
Rurree wrote:
At least only the suspect is dead. Shootings really do happen way too often, but at least they didn't end up like Virginia Tech.
You mean not often enough. America is such a big place, it's a wonder we don't have more
i didnt mean it like that but ok lollol wrote:
using big words does not make change seriousness of a conversation
his name was Abdul Razak Artan, a Somali immigrantJellyblob56 wrote:
Ohio State got shot up an hour or two ago. Suspect dead 8 injured.
http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/sus ... ck-n689076Railey2 wrote:
neither of you know if the attack was religiously motivated.
Foxtrot wrote:
http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/sus ... ck-n689076Railey2 wrote:
neither of you know if the attack was religiously motivated.
http://abcnews.go.com/US/osu-attack-sus ... d=43827435
LMFAO FUCKIN HOLLERINGJellyblob56 wrote:
fuckin peanut head lookin ass
Are you kidding me, Railey? Did you completely ignore the "Muslim Ummah", which is a very religious term that just means "all Muslims with a common ideology"? And the fact most of the Muslim countries are, guess what, Islamic republics, which adhere to the Islamic law dictated in the Quran? Muslims are the one who plaster religion on every action they commit, not the media.Railey2 wrote:
“I can’t take it anymore. America! Stop interfering with other countries, especially the Muslim Ummah. We are not weak. We are not weak, remember that.”
This suggests a nationalistic motive more than it suggests religious dogmatism. A distinction that I'm sure most people wouldn't even think of these days, when all you read about is ISLAM ISLAM ISLAM, plastered all over the news with emotionally charged articles to go with.
I don't know. It might very well be religiously motivated. Maybe we'll never know. Either way, he surely didn't improve his religion's image, because people will associate his crime with islam no matter what his motivation turns out to be in the end.
I've spent some time thinking about what exactly sets a bigoted mindset apart from a more normal, open-minded one. One central difference seems to be, that bigots are way more inclined to use "all-or-nothing"-thinking, they find it harder to form nuanced opinions.Jellyblob56 wrote:
Well, if it's a Muslim, it's a good chance it is. After all, they are told to do so by the fucking Quran. Radical or not, if you support the Quran you're a fucking monster. All of it is hate.Railey2 wrote:
neither of you know if the attack was religiously motivated.
I have no problem with religion, really. Christianity has some fucked up shit too, all religions do. If you've noticed though, Christianity has been conforming to fit current times. Take a look at how most Christians treat LGBT. On the other side you have Islam. I wouldn't say the religion is changing as a whole like Christianity. After all, how can a religion based on killing, deception, etc be turned into something good? A religion of barbarians.
And this is blatantly obvious but of course that doesn't mean each individual is a monster themselves. I just don't see how you can say you're so devout to your religion and then turn around and not follow anything in your holy book. All they do is blindly pray.
I mean, I don't hate Muslims, I really don't. I just think a lot of them are uninformed.
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religion war go
"I am killing you because your people oppress my community, that also happens to be an islamic community"Foxtrot wrote:
Are you kidding me, Railey? Did you completely ignore the "Muslim Ummah", which is a very religious term that just means "all Muslims with a common ideology"? And the fact most of the Muslim countries are, guess what, Islamic republics, which adhere to the Islamic law dictated in the Quran? Muslims are the one who plaster religion on every action they commit, not the media.Railey2 wrote:
“I can’t take it anymore. America! Stop interfering with other countries, especially the Muslim Ummah. We are not weak. We are not weak, remember that.”
This suggests a nationalistic motive more than it suggests religious dogmatism. A distinction that I'm sure most people wouldn't even think of these days, when all you read about is ISLAM ISLAM ISLAM, plastered all over the news with emotionally charged articles to go with.
I don't know. It might very well be religiously motivated. Maybe we'll never know. Either way, he surely didn't improve his religion's image, because people will associate his crime with islam no matter what his motivation turns out to be in the end.
"Since most bigots seem to think in black and white, they often assume that if you are not black, you must automatically be white."Jellyblob56 wrote:
First of all, I clarified that I'm not talking about all muslims and that I was making the situation look more dire than it is in retrospect but how is anything I said wrong?
Really, Railey. Download a copy of the Quran. Just jump to random pages. This idea that the opposing idea is pushing-- that the the Quran has to be good because it's a "holy" book is just preposterous.
[...]
What I have had on the otherhand is you try to belittle me because of what I think whilst completely ignoring mahogany's comment and how I said I agreed with it.
What a religion was founded on doesn't really matter. As I said before, most religious texts are subject to (very) free interpretation and have to be followed selectively, because they stand in conflict with themselves. If you are familiar with European history, you know that Christians too have killed "infidels" across the continent, all backed up by their religious teachings. We've had the inquisition, genocides in africa, north america and the middle east to spread Christianity, even in parts of asia. Christianity's body count is probably higher than the one of Islam, so which religion is really "based off of killing"?Jellyblob56 wrote:
And like I said before, this religion is completely based off of killing, deception, and strict ideology whereas Christianity has proven to be much more flexible and supported by morals that are accepted even currently. Even then, all the "bad parts" have been completely brushed aside; completely ignored by those following the religion because they want theirs to be the best. They want theirs to be perfect. The Quran tells them to spread their religion like a plague and kill all who don't submit to it. Maybe I am bigoted, but I have stated my reasons and have yet to be told anything that I feel makes more sense.
I can tell the difference.Jellyblob56 wrote:
You need to be able to differentiate generalizations from bigotry. Not all generalizations are bad, sure, they may be on a topic that is not so good but that doesn't mean it's wrong. Generalizations exist because they can be useful in situations where a particular group is taking part in a particular crime / activity / etc.
People have a hard time understanding that it is possible for a holy book to advocate for conflicting values. Yes, the bible advocates a lot against violence, but it also advocates for violence.B1rd wrote:
Except Christianity is different because unlike the Quran, the Bible does not encourage or support acts of violence. There is no part in the Bible that advocates for genocide, so you really can't blame everything that happened in the Crusades on Christianity. The Bible advocates against violence.
The Crusades were a response to Muslim aggression and expansion, iirc correctly because the Byzantine emporor requested assistance from the pope. And keep in mind then the medieval period was a more violent and militaristic society, wars and massacres happened back then regardless of the religion of the nation.
I'm sick of this myth that Christianity is just as bad as Islam. These things are not the same.
That guy must be immortal, surviving a fucking plane crashJellyblob56 wrote:
Jesus Christ, bad shit is happening left and right. https://www.yahoo.com/news/colombia-aut ... 32692.html
Sounds like only 1 possible survivor as of now. "An ambulance transporting a male passenger with oxygen and covered in a blanket arrived on a stretcher to a local hospital, Blu Radio reported. He was apparently alive."
Hope that he's not the only one.
What God did in the New Testament is of no relevance. What is important is what the religion tells it's followers to do now. And as I said, the Bible does not advocate for violence. It advocates against violence, and people who commit violence in the name of Christianity, of which there are not many despite is being one of the popular religions of the world, are simply misinterpreting the Bible. Saying that all religions are the same because people can interpret things however they like is a stupid argument.Railey2 wrote:
People have a hard time understanding that it is possible for a holy book to advocate for conflicting values. Yes, the bible advocates a lot against violence, but it also advocates for violence.
God himself commits genocide multiple times in the old testament where he drowns every living being on earth except for Noah and his gang. Or when he nukes Sodom and Gomorrha. Or when he kills Egyptian firstborns (innocent children, supposedly).
Again, what you say sounds like a bigoted opinion: The King James Authorized Bible has 783,137 words. It was written by hundreds of people over centuries, in a time where religious persecution was almost a social norm. You think there is not a single part that could be interpreted to justify crimes against humanity?
If count the number of violent verses in each book, in relation to the number of verses that advocate for peace, the Quran might come out on top. I'm not denying that. But the initial argument was my answer to the question: "Is it possible to modernize an allegedly barbaric religion?" The answer is:
Islam is just like Christianity neither completely barbaric nor completely civilized, as their holy texts both propagate a broad range of ideas that you have to pick from to arrive at your personal interpretation of the religion, which then might turn out to be barbaric or civilized (or anything in between).
Islam can be a religion of peace. It can also be what ISIS makes it, a religion of war. It might be that it is easier to arrive at the religion of war interpretation by reading the Quran than it is to arrive at it by reading the bible (which does make it "worse", as in "more dangerous"), but the point still stands. Both can be reformed and were successfully reformed in the past and present.
You never directly rebutted any of the verse of Jelly, you didn't rebut anything from the video I posted. Your text is based on nothing but the claim that Islam only advocated violence in the face of aggression, which is completely unsubstantiated and demonstrably untrue. You have an ex-Muslim, an expert on religion who says that ISIS represents Islam, you you claim that anyone who thinks that is 'ignorant'. Your opinion stems from this modern idealistic notion to refuse that any religion or culture can inherently be bad or promote violent ideals, despite overwhelming evidence in behaviour of Muslims and in the source text they follow.EneT wrote:
To say that the Quran is rooted from evil and violence is ignorant to say the least and even more ignorant to misinterpret it's words in the exact same way extremists interpret it, who themselves, go against it's teachings. The Quran doesn't go against other religions in the way you see it. The Quran does not teach active violence, it teaches reactionary violence; really easy to take the same popular passages that everyone uses to berate the readings to backup your argument isn't it?
What the Quran is rooted from is human nature. Unlike every other religion e.g. Christianity, which tells you to turn the other cheek when you are hit, Islam is the exact opposite, teaching you to do the same to them to what they did to you and it is this fact that makes people so sure that this religion is evil incarnate. The Quran was written during a time in which Muslim's faced strong hostility and oppression from Meccans much like the persecution of the Christians from Jews and Romans but unlike Christians who simply ran away, Muslims chose to fight. Because of this, the way the Quran is written sounds extremely hostile to non-believers when in truth, those 'non-believers' actually refer to the Meccans. Despite this, the fundamentals of Muhammad was intact and something you clearly chose not to include, plain and simply put, the one part of the Quran that everyone loves to ignore, "do not cause harm to those that do not harm you". During Muhammad's conquest he sought out the most peaceful ways to triumph over the Meccans but he did not dismiss the fact that at times, violence was necessary because it was human nature. This is what differentiates it from other religions, it does not condone violence against the peaceful but it does tell you that if someone told you to catch his hands, don't catch em, don't be a bitch and fucking throw them back.
What the Quran promotes heavily, and by heavily I mean heavily, is the persecution and damnation of those who cause harm to you; the unjust (evil-doers) and the people who choose to oppress others (the crime of Al-Fitnah). Those who take action are rewarded, those who laze about are not, because obviously, they are lazy fucks. This is where the religion falls to a grey area and can be misinterpreted and used to take advantage of it's people. The belief of Muslim's is that they know what is best, they are the judges of what is right and wrong and especially with the current Caliph being the leader of ISIS, shit is not looking good in their morals department. This does not mean however that the religion is evil, it simply means some people are crazed lunatics and some people are stupid followers, oh hey, hello North Korea.
Now look at it from an Arab-Muslim's perspective, the west, most specifically America has committed much worse atrocities to the Arab-Muslim people than they have to us, all because of America's greed for oil. In their eyes, we're the big bad. That's what all their kids are taught and they use Islam as a tool to further their own agenda. Looking at it from their perspective, I can easily see how many Muslims can fall pray into believing extremist factions because let's face it, our countries are absolute assholes.
You think Islam is evil? No, it is not religion; the Quran may do
a horrible job of conveying it's message and morals but the Quran itself is not evil and if you read it at least close to its entirety you'd know that. The ambiguity of the religion plays a big part as to why Islam is a problem but the Quran itself is not the source of the evil, it's the people. Don't blame the Quran, just blame Muslims in general, fuck Muslims. Everyone who believes Islam is a religion based on evil fall under the category of propaganda-induced brainwashing.
TL;DR THE QURAN IS A GOOD BOY BUT IT DON'T MEAN HE'S A PUSSY