Sophia wrote:

If I smear you with elephant feces and cover you in duck feathers while singing the lyrics to Pensamento Tipico de Esquerda Caviar wearing a watermelon around my neck in front of a cheering crowd that would be an incredibly creative way of publicly humiliating you and making myself look like a retard and that is in no way art.

Sophia wrote:

But let's amuse yourselves that mapping is "art", even for a bit.

The expression or application of human creative skill and imagination

Sophia wrote:

Do you think mapping is a form of art which could even one day hope to compare to literature?

Sophia wrote:

I'll be looking for the day you mapping the next TV Size Anime Opening by LiSA makes an impact in society or any form of culture in the world in a relevant way.

Monstrata wrote:

Mapping is an art. I understand that the concept might be difficult for you to comprehend. Perhaps you should try mapping before you reject it as a form of expression.

Mapping is not literature, it is philosophy. Literature is what you read, it is simply a medium from which ideas are spread. Other mediums include film, photography, anime, music, poetry, painting, food... The list continues. Fundamentally, every piece of art strives to convey a message, however small it may be. At the elementary level, drawings, sketches, photos, paintings, they try to show us the world, from the eyes of the artist. From a different perspective. With a different focus. At a different angle. Using different juxtapositions. They try to show us beauty, to revel in the magnificence of nature, of flavours, of music in harmony. Art allows for ideas to be filtered through the perspective, the opinions, the mental process of the artist. Art doesn't need to impact society, or any form of culture in the world to be successful. It just needs to get its message across. You may disagree with the artist, but whether you agree or disagree, you still process the artist's idea.

While no TV Size Anime Opening by LiSA did make an impact in my life, another song really moved me to pursue my dreams and ambitions, and to really live life to the fullest. It told me that even if the world was ending, even if the entirety of the world were to melt away, that as long as I had something to live for, something that kept me going, my life would not be a waste. The artist acknowledges how ephemeral life can be. That we are simply a ripple in the ocean of life. However, she sings that no matter how futile we may feel, even if the world were to disappear, that nothing should stop us from making the most of our lives. In a sense, she echoes the works of poet Horace's Odes by urging her audience to seize the day. This concept of "carpe diem" is interwoven even in society today, through the more vernacular "yolo" but the artists' messages from two thousand years ago to today continue to be relevant. This song really taught me to make the most out of my life. To do what I want to do, to not look back, to not waste my time worrying, to fully immerse myself in life's beauty. Life is fleeting, so lets make the most out of it! Please listen to this song, perhaps it will give you a new lease on life as it did mine.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ULHQPm8hmVk

Forlornly wrote:

stone-faced, inscrutable, the greatest memer of our time
a method actor who betrays nothing, he does not break character because he is character

although i like that the sliders are messy, I don't like that they seem completely random and distended in dissimilar ways. the song itself is not THAT unorganized, it's a bit heavy and unkempt but it still does maintain a level of structure and discipline. would you consider keeping some of the sliders messy but making them messy in the same way if they're expressing related sounds? for example
02:10:385 (1) -
02:11:311 (1) -
02:12:238 (1) -
02:13:164 (1) -
02:14:100 (1) -
02:15:026 (1) -
02:15:953 (1) -
02:16:880 (1) -

these sliders are all expressing the exact same sound but it seems like you went out of your way to make some of them as different as possible. i appreciate the concept and i think it works well to an extent, but some of these sliders are so jagged and threatening and others are smooth and have no corners at all. the map is more messy than the song and a good way to trim it just a little bit would be to at least make some of the messy sliders messy in the same way, particularly the long ambitious ones that emphasize heavy beats

some more examples:
01:42:186 (1) -
01:42:836 (1) -
01:43:942 (1) -
01:45:025 (1) -
01:45:670 (1) -
01:46:531 (1) -
01:47:183 (1) -
01:48:241 (3) -
etc

00:31:475 (1,2,3,4) - these sliders, though short, are so fundamentally different that just looking at them is far more jarring than the song itself. especially 00:33:832 (4) - when considering the previous three sliders, it's just so painful.

i absolutely love this 01:38:058 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1,2,3,4,5) - though, think it fits perfectly, his voice is seriously going wild at that point

didnt comment on flow or playability or anything because im not top 100 rank, but aesthetically i like it for the most part

estellia- wrote:

call it art, call it philosophy

but if no one circlejerks it will have no value

this is why "modern" art is considered one of the largest, most successful circlejerk ever to plague our planet lol

Monstrata wrote:

Every slider, no matter how messy or clean, is done with a specific goal in mind.

Monstrata wrote:

If you look at it in small sections like above, they will of course look disorganized as similar sound profiles see to be mapped to different shapes. I can assure you though, that these are all part of a bigger thread, and one that I believe, looking through the whole first half of the map, is consistent in its chaos.

-kevincela- wrote:

Sophia wrote:

Do you think mapping is a form of art which could even one day hope to compare to literature?

Why are you even comparing mapping to literature?

Forlornly wrote:

estellia- wrote:

call it art, call it philosophy

but if no one circlejerks it will have no value

this is why "modern" art is considered one of the largest, most successful circlejerk ever to plague our planet lol

That's how it is for everything, if people like it then it has some sort of value. Just because you don't like or appreciate it and think it's silly doesn't mean it's fraudulent and some dirty "circlejerk." I don't really get why people think this map is so esoteric and highbrow "art." It's very simple: messy sliders to represent a messy song. I personally think the sliders are TOO messy but that's ok, that's just where monstrata and people like me might disagree. Shiirn did the same thing with his Comfort mapset -- uneven flow to represent a silly, playful song. And people disparagingly called it "art" just because the concept seemed so wild and otherworldly, when really it was just a little bit unusual from the norm.

Monstrata wrote:

Mapping is an art. I understand that the concept might be difficult for you to comprehend. Perhaps you should try mapping before you reject it as a form of expression.

Mapping is not literature, it is philosophy. Literature is what you read, it is simply a medium from which ideas are spread. Other mediums include film, photography, anime, music, poetry, painting, food... The list continues. Fundamentally, every piece of art strives to convey a message, however small it may be. At the elementary level, drawings, sketches, photos, paintings, they try to show us the world, from the eyes of the artist. From a different perspective. With a different focus. At a different angle. Using different juxtapositions. They try to show us beauty, to revel in the magnificence of nature, of flavours, of music in harmony. Art allows for ideas to be filtered through the perspective, the opinions, the mental process of the artist. Art doesn't need to impact society, or any form of culture in the world to be successful. It just needs to get its message across. You may disagree with the artist, but whether you agree or disagree, you still process the artist's idea.

While no TV Size Anime Opening by LiSA did make an impact in my life, another song really moved me to pursue my dreams and ambitions, and to really live life to the fullest. It told me that even if the world was ending, even if the entirety of the world were to melt away, that as long as I had something to live for, something that kept me going, my life would not be a waste. The artist acknowledges how ephemeral life can be. That we are simply a ripple in the ocean of life. However, she sings that no matter how futile we may feel, even if the world were to disappear, that nothing should stop us from making the most of our lives. In a sense, she echoes the works of poet Horace's Odes by urging her audience to seize the day. This concept of "carpe diem" is interwoven even in society today, through the more vernacular "yolo" but the artists' messages from two thousand years ago to today continue to be relevant. This song really taught me to make the most out of my life. To do what I want to do, to not look back, to not waste my time worrying, to fully immerse myself in life's beauty. Life is fleeting, so lets make the most out of it! Please listen to this song, perhaps it will give you a new lease on life as it did mine.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ULHQPm8hmVk

estellia- wrote:

call it art, call it philosophy

but if no one circlejerks it will have no value

this is why "modern" art is considered one of the largest, most successful circlejerk ever to plague our planet lol

1. I don't think 100% accurate timing can be achieved with this song, but I assume you already made the final timing changes?
2. Are you still going to change the HP?
3. Still my doubts on metadata. マキシマム ザ ホルモン vs. マキシマムザホルモン and Maximum the Hormone vs. MAXIMUM THE HORMONE. I hope you can confirm this.
   
   https://twitter.com/MTH_OFFICIAL
   http://www.55mth.com/pc/index.php
   http://www.55mth.com/pc/discography/
   http://www.maximumthehormone.jp/news.html

1. 00:28:922 (1,2,3,4) - Feels cramped compared to other patterns in this section.
2. 00:40:119 (2) - Not sure what you're trying to emphasize with this note. The vocal slip is too vague to me, while the guitar is still 1/3.
3. 00:41:339 (5,3) - Hmm.. had trouble reading this, perhaps because both the head and end of (3) are covered by (5). Not too problematic, but (3) is already appears when (5) is still active... up to you..
4. 00:43:260 (5,1) - For both emphasis, flow and readability. I think it's best to separate these two a bit more.`
5. 00:45:199 (1) - 00:50:493 (2) - 01:40:522 (8) - 01:52:133 (1) - 02:14:447 (2) - 02:15:026 (1) - 02:16:532 (3) - 02:23:625 (1) - 02:30:920 (12) - 02:40:786 (5) - For once, I can agree with Shiirn a bit. The last two red notes are impossible to actually see it's affects on the slider body, but I feel they do affect SV somehow. Considering the rules have remained untouched concerning sliders like these, maybe simplify it a bit. The other slider mentioned, should be considered to be simplified, that's all.
6. 00:56:971 (4,5) - Small angled jumps like these play quite awkward on lower BPM, so I doubt they play nicely on high. Seeing that the angles of previous patterns were pretty sharp, maybe do that here too.
7. 01:37:630 (5) - Seeing other jump patterns, kinda expected a larger jump here instead of one straight line to emphasize the guitar.
8. 01:38:058 (1,2,3,4) - 02:26:362 (1,2,3,4) - Completely up to you, but maybe some readability issues in the kicksliders can be solved with having NC pattern consistent of 4 objects each. (would really help with stuff like 02:26:778 (5,6,7,8,1,2,3,4) - etc.)
9. 01:41:058 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1) - lol this on high bpm doesnt look smart tbh (tho if a player CAN fc the rest of the diff, this should be really doable if the player is at that level)
10. 01:46:197 (3,1) - 01:50:506 (3,1) - etc. Due to this being 300 BPM tapping + red line earlier than red tick, I find that this might be hard to catch. Either closer or slider-based jump instead feels more right to me. Maybe it's just me...
11. 01:47:749 (3) - left out on purpose right? just asking lol
12. 01:59:570 (1) - Sounds like it's almost blending in with the cymbal crash itself, would raise volume for this object.
13. 02:02:564 (2,3,4,5) - Considering the intensity of the sounds, kinda expected larger spacing tbh. Maybe use 1.1x like 02:09:830 (2,3,4,5) - ?
14. 02:21:427 (4,5) - Feels weird since it's so close to the slider end... up to you.
15. 02:24:229 (3,4,5,1,2,3) - Sounds off. (especially (4) and (3, next combo))
16. 02:29:206 (4) - Compared to most other overlaps, this slider is like 75% covered, unlike others which are still -kinda- readable.
17. 02:43:239 (1,2,1,2,1,2) - Wish you made the custom stack a little larger in spacing (like 02:39:686 (1,1,1) - )nso you can actually see the NCs lel, they are readable on it's own, especially since most skins do not have 300 skinned, but the stack with the previous stream doesn't make this exactly more comfortable.
18. 04:49:418 (1) - Unsnapped.

estellia- wrote:

already missing the point, so many things have been brought up about this map and you're neglecting everything else

people have already time and time again stated the fact that monstrata contradicted himself by saying its a map he made for "lolz" and yet still has serious meaning behind it, and somehow that meaning is some shitty excuse of "philosophy". boi, if it were anyone who prompted the "artsy" argument first it'd be monstrata trying to be edgy and defending himself in the shittiest way possible lol. the fact that people are still defending monstrata is such a joke.

all i'm typing out here is an opinion. as much as i see no value in monstrata's map, perhaps you see no value in my argument. many things to mention about what you said about what i said but i'm seriously too lazy lol. typing out arguments is a pain in the ass, especially when it won't make sense to you anyways

Monstrata wrote:

Mapping is an art. I understand that the concept might be difficult for you to comprehend. Perhaps you should try mapping before you reject it as a form of expression.

Mapping is not literature, it is philosophy. Literature is what you read, it is simply a medium from which ideas are spread. Other mediums include film, photography, anime, music, poetry, painting, food... The list continues. Fundamentally, every piece of art strives to convey a message, however small it may be. At the elementary level, drawings, sketches, photos, paintings, they try to show us the world, from the eyes of the artist. From a different perspective. With a different focus. At a different angle. Using different juxtapositions. They try to show us beauty, to revel in the magnificence of nature, of flavours, of music in harmony. Art allows for ideas to be filtered through the perspective, the opinions, the mental process of the artist. Art doesn't need to impact society, or any form of culture in the world to be successful. It just needs to get its message across. You may disagree with the artist, but whether you agree or disagree, you still process the artist's idea.

While no TV Size Anime Opening by LiSA did make an impact in my life, another song really moved me to pursue my dreams and ambitions, and to really live life to the fullest. It told me that even if the world was ending, even if the entirety of the world were to melt away, that as long as I had something to live for, something that kept me going, my life would not be a waste. The artist acknowledges how ephemeral life can be. That we are simply a ripple in the ocean of life. However, she sings that no matter how futile we may feel, even if the world were to disappear, that nothing should stop us from making the most of our lives. In a sense, she echoes the works of poet Horace's Odes by urging her audience to seize the day. This concept of "carpe diem" is interwoven even in society today, through the more vernacular "yolo" but the artists' messages from two thousand years ago to today continue to be relevant. This song really taught me to make the most out of my life. To do what I want to do, to not look back, to not waste my time worrying, to fully immerse myself in life's beauty. Life is fleeting, so lets make the most out of it! Please listen to this song, perhaps it will give you a new lease on life as it did mine.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ULHQPm8hmVk

winber1 wrote:

i love boobs

1. I don't think 100% accurate timing can be achieved with this song, but I assume you already made the final timing changes?
2. Are you still going to change the HP? Okay i'll change this now. I think i've testplayed the diff enough now lol.
3. Still my doubts on metadata. マキシマム ザ ホルモン vs. マキシマムザホルモン and Maximum the Hormone vs. MAXIMUM THE HORMONE. I hope you can confirm this. The spaces don't really matter, but removing them is better so I'll do that. Also ALL CAPS seems to be how they are stylizing their name so i'll do that too.
   
   https://twitter.com/MTH_OFFICIAL
   http://www.55mth.com/pc/index.php
   http://www.55mth.com/pc/discography/
   http://www.maximumthehormone.jp/news.html

1. 00:28:922 (1,2,3,4) - Feels cramped compared to other patterns in this section. True. Made this less cramped.
2. 00:40:119 (2) - Not sure what you're trying to emphasize with this note. The vocal slip is too vague to me, while the guitar is still 1/3. Ehh, At first I wanted the triplet there to maintain that 1/2 clicking rhythm, cuz starting on a red tick felt off to me in terms of clicking rhythm, but It's actually not as bad as I thought, so I just removed the triplet and made 00:39:852 (6) - a repeat slider instead lol.
3. 00:41:339 (5,3) - Hmm.. had trouble reading this, perhaps because both the head and end of (3) are covered by (5). Not too problematic, but (3) is already appears when (5) is still active... up to you.. I changed the shape of slider 5 so it's easier to see 3.
4. 00:43:260 (5,1) - For both emphasis, flow and readability. I think it's best to separate these two a bit more.`Added some much needed triangles here.
5. Note: This is going to be for Shiirn/other people who want to better understand my intentions for slider-nodes as well00:45:199 (1) - Trimmed the ends and removed unnecessary white nodes. 00:50:493 (2) - Trimmed it down too. 01:40:522 (8) - Here too, trimmed it down 01:52:133 (1) - This one's intentional and I think the design is pretty good actually x__x02:14:447 (2) - Reduced some reds and whites02:15:026 (1) - Changed some of the nodes. Basically i made the angle change between red nodes less sharp so theres less of an effect on apparent slider speed 02:16:532 (3) - I think this one's fine though, since it's just a slight bump. 02:23:625 (1) - This one's fine too, since the red nodes aren't changing up the slider's apparent speed. It'll play just like a blanket slider with the same speed, except the edges are sharp.02:30:920 (12) - Made them mostly white nodes instead.02:40:786 (5) - This one's just a bump too so I'd like to keep xP. For once, I can agree with Shiirn a bit. The last two red notes are impossible to actually see it's affects on the slider body, but I feel they do affect SV somehow. Considering the rules have remained untouched concerning sliders like these, maybe simplify it a bit. The other slider mentioned, should be considered to be simplified, that's all. I was imitating some of val0108's sliders tbh xD. Basically, sliders have a consistent SV which we can't alter. What we can do, is use red nodes to alter the apparent SV which is what SV will feel like to players. Having red notes up and down in a zigzag formation perpendicular to the slider will cause the slider to scrunch and slow down, as (given a horizontal slider) there is now more Y axis for the slider to cover. My intentional wasn't to change the apparent SV, it was just to create a lot of small bumps and wonky slider paths. White nodes only increase the formula for a slider curve, but they don't actually end a curve function in a slider, only red nodes and slider-ends do, so in a sense you could get a slider with 40+ white nodes all scrunched up together, and be able to replicate the speed of the slider with just one white node. The second slider with one white node would just look a lot cleaner, but SV and apparent SV remain unchanged. The difference is when more red nodes come into play, because they can actually create apparent SV changes. So I think the majority of my changes here were to make these red nodes as subtle as possible. IE, when they are used, they don't create angles that could make the slider appear slower than necessary. From the images below, you can see that white nodes, despite there being a lot more, have a much lesser visual effect on the slider's apparent velocity, whereas red notes, because they end curves, end up having a much larger effect.
   
   Visualization

   
   
6. 00:56:971 (4,5) - Small angled jumps like these play quite awkward on lower BPM, so I doubt they play nicely on high. Seeing that the angles of previous patterns were pretty sharp, maybe do that here too. Easy fix
7. 01:37:630 (5) - Seeing other jump patterns, kinda expected a larger jump here instead of one straight line to emphasize the guitar. Fair enough, changed to something normal xD.
8. 01:38:058 (1,2,3,4) - 02:26:362 (1,2,3,4) - Completely up to you, but maybe some readability issues in the kicksliders can be solved with having NC pattern consistent of 4 objects each. (would really help with stuff like 02:26:778 (5,6,7,8,1,2,3,4) - etc.) I'd prefer to keep the NCs how they are. Idk, i don't think NC'ing will help with readability in this case, so i'm using the NC's to show how the kicksliders will play. When there's an NC theres a change in flow/movement from up/down to rotational, or left/right etc...
9. 01:41:058 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1) - lol this on high bpm doesnt look smart tbh (tho if a player CAN fc the rest of the diff, this should be really doable if the player is at that level) Hey that's my reasoning too. But I think the pattern can still work on high bpm. It works as a nice ending to all the 1/4 kicksliders and I think the song is kinda building up to this point.
10. 01:46:197 (3,1) - 01:50:506 (3,1) - etc. Due to this being 300 BPM tapping + red line earlier than red tick, I find that this might be hard to catch. Either closer or slider-based jump instead feels more right to me. Maybe it's just me... Made them closer. I already NC'ed them for better readability but yea i think i should supplement that with spacing too.
11. 01:47:749 (3) - left out on purpose right? just asking lol Yea this one's too close. I made 3 farther away tho.
12. 01:59:570 (1) - Sounds like it's almost blending in with the cymbal crash itself, would raise volume for this object. Raised
13. 02:02:564 (2,3,4,5) - Considering the intensity of the sounds, kinda expected larger spacing tbh. Maybe use 1.1x like 02:09:830 (2,3,4,5) - ? I think the 90degree-ness of these squares are enough. Its coming out of a slow section so I don't want to make it too drastic just yet. The next section is really alternator-friendly, and you can even single-tap it with relative ease because of the rhythm, so I think the low spacing here is better since the rhythm density already contributes a bit to overall difficulty. The second one leads into a more intense section so yea, larger spacing.
14. 02:21:427 (4,5) - Feels weird since it's so close to the slider end... up to you. I kinda like this xP.
15. 02:24:229 (3,4,5,1,2,3) - Sounds off. (especially (4) and (3, next combo)) Fixed.
16. 02:29:206 (4) - Compared to most other overlaps, this slider is like 75% covered, unlike others which are still -kinda- readable. Made it less covered.
17. 02:43:239 (1,2,1,2,1,2) - Wish you made the custom stack a little larger in spacing (like 02:39:686 (1,1,1) - )nso you can actually see the NCs lel, they are readable on it's own, especially since most skins do not have 300 skinned, but the stack with the previous stream doesn't make this exactly more comfortable. Sure.
18. 04:49:418 (1) - Unsnapped. Report me.

Monstrata wrote:

I think it's fair to give the community a chance for some final words

Monstrata wrote:

After a lot of discussion, we've decided that we will flame this map in a day or two. I think it's fair to give the community a chance for some final words. I don't want to make the icons seem rushed, a lot of individual work has been put into pushing this forward, it just happens that everyone was available and ready to icon it today.

Shiirn wrote:

Monstrata wrote:

After a lot of discussion, we've decided that we will flame this map in a day or two. I think it's fair to give the community a chance for some final words. I don't want to make the icons seem rushed, a lot of individual work has been put into pushing this forward, it just happens that everyone was available and ready to icon it today.

wank wank wank wank wank wank wank


there's my words

Monstrata wrote:

After a lot of discussion, we've decided that we will flame this map in a day or two. I think it's fair to give the community a chance for some final words. I don't want to make the icons seem rushed, a lot of individual work has been put into pushing this forward, it just happens that everyone was available and ready to icon it today.

Shiirn wrote:

maximum the hormone is basically like



edge in a can

Approved Category is only for Marathon maps. Long maps with over 5 minutes of draining time fit the Approval category. Only then they are allowed to be single difficulty mapsets. If they are below 5 minutes of draining time, a full difficulty spread is needed and the map will have to be ranked instead.

XII wrote:

This isn't 5 minutes, where is the set? Or am I missing something.

Approved Category is only for Marathon maps. Long maps with over 5 minutes of draining time fit the Approval category. Only then they are allowed to be single difficulty mapsets. If they are below 5 minutes of draining time, a full difficulty spread is needed and the map will have to be ranked instead.

And isn't the approved section dead anyways? I don't see why they would break their guidelines and use a section that has been unused since 2.5 years back.

[alt][F4] wrote:

the drain time calculator is kind of broken because it doesn't really count spinners

FailureAtOsu wrote:

Extremely minor thing
02:28:885 (1,2,3,4) -
02:32:313 (9,10,11,12) -
Why does the former have a new combo but not the latter? It's the same sounds so I don't see why it would be inconsistent.

N1k0 wrote:

AR10 just feels a lot more fitting when playing this. And HP 4.5-4.7 feels more fitting than 5. idk that's just my opinion on the matter...

Battle wrote:

often times if the mp3 is edited by the user, you still use the same metadata as the source, for example if you cut a song to be shorter such as this due to it being repetitive you still keep the same metadata

Monstrata wrote:

mp3 is slightly edited yes. It's not against the current ruleset, but you're welcome to discuss it further, here: t/417977.

lilelf29 wrote:

Monstrata wrote:

mp3 is slightly edited yes. It's not against the current ruleset, but you're welcome to discuss it further, here: t/417977.

Wait it's allowed?
I thought you just linked to a thread that says you can't extend the mp3 file, unless I'm missing something.

Monstrata wrote:

It's allowed currently. The thread is a discussion about making mp3 extension against the rules. I thought i'd link it so people can discuss there instead.

lilelf29 wrote:

Monstrata wrote:

It's allowed currently. The thread is a discussion about making mp3 extension against the rules. I thought i'd link it so people can discuss there instead.

Oh damn, I know a few people that are under the impression it's not allowed and so instead are making mapsets of 4min+ songs.
Will spread the news that they don't need to.

placeholder

MillhioreF wrote:

Remember: there's nothing wrong with mapping for the graveyard.

Monstrata wrote:

Well, if you extend, you should try to make it as natural as possible too. It's sometimes quite hard to extend songs past 5 minutes, especially if theyre like just 4:01 or something. There are a lot of songs i want to map, that are like 4:40-4:50 that I just can't tastefully extend haha.

Sliproads wrote:

Monstrata wrote:

Well, if you extend, you should try to make it as natural as possible too. It's sometimes quite hard to extend songs past 5 minutes, especially if theyre like just 4:01 or something. There are a lot of songs i want to map, that are like 4:40-4:50 that I just can't tastefully extend haha.

Not every map has to be marathon size. Couldn't you just make more diffs?

Enkidu wrote:

It's quite literally 11 seconds. C'mon friend.

Microsoft Vista wrote:

monstrata reply to wank wank wank but not bob

total terror wrote:

Also the amount of >20k ranked players commenting on the playability of this map is far too high and honestly just silly.

isopaharuntikka wrote:

total terror wrote:

Also the amount of >20k ranked players commenting on the playability of this map is far too high and honestly just silly.

I haven't read this thread much, but the only opinion of a top player that I've seen is Elysion's on their stream and iirc they just said "Doesn't play well."

I think it would be a pretty neat idea to get multiple top players opinions on this map to improve it (since it is a 8.5* map...), but Monstrata might've already done that.

lilelf29 wrote:

Battle wrote:

often times if the mp3 is edited by the user, you still use the same metadata as the source, for example if you cut a song to be shorter such as this due to it being repetitive you still keep the same metadata

Editing the song to be shorter is very different to editing it to be longer.
I fail to see what point you're making?

blahpy wrote:

MillhioreF wrote:

Remember: there's nothing wrong with mapping for the graveyard.

estellia- wrote:

also vinxis the structure of your post is so fucked can you get good at being estellia- tyvm

QTS wrote:

This song should not be qualified nor ranked.

Half of the map is some kind of lullaby that is FC:able by 5 digit players, including me, this necessarily might not be a bad thing, but I personally find it unfit for a 8.5* map.

Side wrote:

QTS wrote:

This song should not be qualified nor ranked.

Half of the map is some kind of lullaby that is FC:able by 5 digit players, including me, this necessarily might not be a bad thing, but I personally find it unfit for a 8.5* map.

The same could be said about a lot of wub maps since they usually start out like 2* maps

Girl wrote:

Microsoft Vista wrote:

monstrata reply to wank wank wank but not bob

hi mothew!!

Arphimigon wrote:

Who cares about ugli aesthetics tbh
Gonna talk about other things blahblah w/e

Mod time!
I'm kinda sad that after these jumps 00:18:626 (1,2,3,4) - here that 00:19:486 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4) - these are so low spaced, since the later ones have the extra punchy drum to go along with them but have a lower spacing. I feel like the low spaced patterns should be before, while the jumpy/snappy sliders should be after. Swapped 3 and 4 to keep the spacing lower.
00:31:475 (1,2,3,4) - If you play these fully it creates some nice snaps with a bunch of spacing which feels cool, however on the next slider pattern here 00:33:189 (1,2,3,4) - I feel as though 00:33:189 (1,2) - these are too cramped up spacing wise to give the same feel. It's minor yes, but every little helps. A 10 degree rotation seems to make the spacing work and keep the same aesthetical style here. I don't like this change. I don't think you should play those sliders fully anyways. Well, i don't, and I find the angles to be fine as they are, taking advantage of leniency.

10 degree spacing and look

00:34:474 (5) - Unsnapped sliderend, should end later but the slider end is snapped slightly early, may want to wiggle it to place. it's snapped tnough.
(00:34:933 (1) - No idea what this is mapped to, if its an instrument, it should start on the blue tick (00:34:986 - or smth), if its mapped to the vocal, it starts on the red tick (00:35:040 - ) but ssince it coverss both its really confussing.) snapped to that buzz that definitely lands on the downbeat. The vocals are a kinda awkward transition out of the 1/4 repeats, same with the guitar that's on the blue tick, i just wanted something with a very straightforward rhythm even if it meant following something that was more a noise than a sound. I think with this set up though, the rhythm is pretty easy to see, whereas if i used a bluetick or red tick rhythm after a 1/4 repeat it would be hard to catch.
00:34:933 (1,2) - This spacing is awkwardly low compared to the slider SV here, I'd honestly suggest you lower the SV more to make it less weird to play here. Intentional anti-jumps so I have more spacing increases to work with when i transition back into 1/2 rhythms.

I used 0.8sv and it kept the look whilst making the spacing even, thus less weird to transition from

00:48:192 (3) - For editors sake, can you simplify this slider down? I have an awkward feeling this can be called out for burai for no reason idk It's not burai. It's not possible to create burais without red nodes xD.

Basically same shape but with redpoint

01:01:580 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - Well you've probably heard enough about these but still I need to say it but from a different perspective. 00:51:250 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - and 00:54:726 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - have similar spacing because the sounds are similar, now 00:58:150 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - is increased spacing because there is an extra cymbal sound, right? If that is the case, then there should be no reason to further increase the spacing to 01:01:580 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - this pattern, since the previous mentioned one is identical in sound and volume to this. oh, Bonsai already mentioned these to me with the same perspective about identical sounds. Basically, I originally wanted the entire section to be this big, and i created an imtermediate section instead with the first half. When I map, I like to create easier and more difficult versions if the music provides similar rhythms and patterns, just to keep things interesting. I want the intensity to build up here as the player continues through this section, so you can see that the jumps after the sliders get progressively larger and larger.
01:38:058 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1,2,3,4,5) - I can see that you have a bunch of different shapes here, but if possible, could you make 01:38:165 (2,4) - more vertical? I know you can just hit the slider heads and play right, but it would still encourage a more vertical and sharp snapping motion if they were more vertical. You can just rotate the sliders. Those are my favourites though ;c.
I'd also like to mention that 01:39:130 (3) - this slider is the only one that goes up a bit before it goes down, whilst being completely playable if you include leniency in the mix, it still discourages a cooler, consistent vertical play which could be happening instead, so this iss the only slider I'd suggest to make differently and move the redpoint downwards on. Sure, fixed.
02:09:830 (2,3,4,5) - Two things here.
Obvious no.1) The linear play is really awkward after an entire map of little linear movement and only snapping pretty much, so it feels plainly wrong to put in since it is so out of the maps context flow/wrist-movement-wise idk.. I like this pattern. I want a break from all the rotational flow since the song is breaking into a harsher section (and you can see the sliders changing shape).
No.2) This looks too damn neat. Needs to be MESSIER. I think the flow choice already contributes, without making the structure messy yet, because this is still part of the previous section imo.
So a solution to both of those is below I made for ya. Also at the same time, that idea/solution gets lower in spacing as the pitches lower with every sound so it seems more with the music.

ez

That's it for input that doesn't relate to aesthetics wheee hopefully it makes it more enjoyable to play cya

Shiirn wrote:

lol.

Natsu wrote:

mmm i'll give my opinion here, if this map get ranked, then any map can be, since the sliders are not different to any new mapper first map sliders, they are bad and they make the map looks ugly.

Yeah the song is chaotic, but doesn't sounds bad, but the map is chaotic and looks bad that's the difference, I always support your maps, Monstrata. But in my opinion this shouldn't be ranked in the current state, I read your responses to similar arguments to mine and they are not objetives, when you say is *art* we can recall in situations like this:

SPOILER

which I believe is happening here, anyways not every map have to be ranked and the community response you are getting is mostly negative (for what I can see in the thread), just rework that sliders, you are a good mapper and I'm sure you can build a chaotic map that looks nice and not the current one that looks like someone first attempt of mapping, sorry Monstrata, but I have to said it too.

Shiirn wrote:

I think the main thing that makes this all feel so disrespectful is that the bullshit is just really obvious. Your reasons are flimsy, your map is clearly intended to be various combinations of "ez 8* pass" "hardest ranked map" "haha its super hard half the time and super boring the other half" "I can make something extremely ugly and anti-meta too guys! and rank it!" and "i can map what i want and bullshit anything past", if I'm missing anything let me know.

I'm an honest fellow. I like it when people are honest, even if their actions aren't.


But we all know that you'd rather just let people let you do whatever the fuck you please, so since I personally have no capability of forcing you to do anything, only my own words, which are oft bereft with language that leads people to disregard me outright from offense.

I'm done dealing with your self-serving fantasy map, myself. I no longer care if you want to embarrass yourself further among any worthwhile peers. This has long since gone beyond the pale.

Monstrata wrote:

oh, Bonsai already mentioned these to me with the same perspective about identical sounds. Basically, I originally wanted the entire section to be this big, and i created an imtermediate section instead with the first half. When I map, I like to create easier and more difficult versions if the music provides similar rhythms and patterns, just to keep things interesting. I want the intensity to build up here as the player continues through this section, so you can see that the jumps after the sliders get progressively larger and larger.

1. 01:01:580 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - After a lot of discussion, I've decided its best to nerf the jumps here a bit. They've been scaled down to 0.85x their original spacing.
2. 01:41:058 (1,2) - The jump-stream has been removed and replaced with 1/4 repeat sliders.
3. 02:32:742 (1,2) - The stream here has also been replaced with 1/4 repeat sliders
4. 02:55:471 (1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1) - The jumps here have been scaled down by 0.8x their original spacing.