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Yuudachi-kun
5,432 posts
Joined August 2014
Yuudachi-kun
To be honest, I think stamina should be renamed to speed since it's way more highly affected by speed than longstreams. I do consider stamina an aspect of speed so I don't think its formulas or whatever need to be renamed. On the other hand, tenacity is like stamina's sad cousin. It's affected by acc iirc but always tails a little bit behind stamina for basically all the same plays. What if you got an fc on road of resistance hr? I'd definitely put that really high in the tenacity stat a the stream aim is incredibly hard and tenacity's description is just "streaming." Shouldn't that be all types of streaming from hard to read/aim/fc streams as well as just speedy ones?

Edit: 15 more points in stamina would be just about impossible for me at my current level. If I can somehow ecke out the hardest top 1k 0 misses I could and probably should have already had, I would add a 790 and a 768 to my plays. How many points would those two give me?
abraker
Global Moderator
8,295 posts
Joined July 2014
abraker

Khelly wrote:

To be honest, I think stamina should be renamed to speed since it's way more highly affected by speed than longstreams. I do consider stamina an aspect of speed so I don't think its formulas or whatever need to be renamed. On the other hand, tenacity is like stamina's sad cousin. It's affected by acc iirc but always tails a little bit behind stamina for basically all the same plays. What if you got an fc on road of resistance hr? I'd definitely put that really high in the tenacity stat a the stream aim is incredibly hard and tenacity's description is just "streaming." Shouldn't that be all types of streaming from hard to read/aim/fc streams as well as just speedy ones?
I actually do plan renaming it to speed. I also plan on making tenacity be oriented towards tapping "balance". It would be sensitive to things like wierd 1/4, 1/6 combinations or other things that would throw your tapping off. This will still apply to streams since there is a "balance" aspect to them as well depending on OD.

Edit: I think you would need at least an 805, 3-5 790's, or >10 750's to make to do a +15
Yuudachi-kun
5,432 posts
Joined August 2014
Yuudachi-kun
Yup, not going to happen anytime soon unless I 3 miss or less hatsune miku no gekishou with top 1k.

That seems like a really big leap though. One 805 would give me +15 but it'd take 3-5 790's when I'm only at 698?
abraker
Global Moderator
8,295 posts
Joined July 2014
abraker
It's really rough estimation. I said at least. It might actually take more than that.

Edit: 805 was a very huge underestimate. You have better chances at raising your skill by setting a bunch of 760-780 scores than setting one or a few ridiculosly high ones. I just inspected the formula, and it favors a bunch of lower scores over a single high one. To make a comparison, a single 1000 score will put you up as high as having 750 for the first 20.
Xyrus_old_1
407 posts
Joined October 2015
Xyrus_old_1
I'm trying to figure out how my score/rank in each category determines my title?

For example, I'm usually "Berserk" but I've recently, I was "Volcanic" for a short while. According to the FAQ Berserk is determined by Stamina, tenancity and Agility, whereas Volcanic is based on lower Agility. However, my Agility has been just barely above my Tenacity by less than 10 points most of the time with my Stamina about 50 points behind. When I went from Berserk to Volcanic, my stats hadn't changed noticibly and Agility has always been my highest scoring stat.

At what point do I change from Berserk to Volcanic, and how would my stats need to change to get Adamant?
Yuudachi-kun
5,432 posts
Joined August 2014
Yuudachi-kun
I think 1000 stamina is nearly impossible to get. The highest score I've seen is 855 from mathew for a 2 miss on gekishow which has one 300 bpm longstream at the very end - so let's say 0 miss is 900 points. That means that you need to longstream 330 bpm or have some outrageous 300 bpm tower of heaven like map to get 1,000? Aoiro step at 323 short streams is only 714ish stamina.
Kert
2,079 posts
Joined June 2009
Topic Starter
Kert

Xyrusd0t0 wrote:

When I went from Berserk to Volcanic, my stats hadn't changed noticibly and Agility has always been my highest scoring stat.
It's hard to believe that, because if Agility was your highest stat always it would be impossible for you to get Volcanic
Currently your accuracy is way lower than other skills that's why your title is Berserk
Xyrus_old_1
407 posts
Joined October 2015
Xyrus_old_1

Kert wrote:

It's hard to believe that, because if Agility was your highest stat always it would be impossible for you to get Volcanic
Currently your accuracy is way lower than other skills that's why your title is Berserk
So to get Volcanic, my Agility would usually have to drop below Tenacity?
Kert
2,079 posts
Joined June 2009
Topic Starter
Kert
Below Tenacity and Stamina.
Yuudachi-kun
5,432 posts
Joined August 2014
Yuudachi-kun
Kert how do you feel about top scores for stamina/tenacity being far below the very top for agility? Imo it's looking like agility is way easier for people to get than stamina/tenacity. Is that because people are just way better at it in general or shouldn't the top stamina abilities be brought up to the ~1000 level? As much at it means, it makes the stamina and tenacity related titles harder to acquire.

Currently they basically have the lowest top 10 in the entire system besides memory.
Kert
2,079 posts
Joined June 2009
Topic Starter
Kert
The project is in beta, so yeah, the tweaking of absolute values will be made at some point too.
unko
517 posts
Joined March 2014
unko

Khelly wrote:

I think 1000 stamina is nearly impossible to get
Image material DT is only 1100 points to put things into perspective 8-)
Yuudachi-kun
5,432 posts
Joined August 2014
Yuudachi-kun

Microsoft Vista wrote:

Khelly wrote:

I think 1000 stamina is nearly impossible to get
Image material DT is only 1100 points to put things into perspective 8-)
How do you know?
unko
517 posts
Joined March 2014
unko
I added a blatant cheater out of curiosity a little while ago
Diabolica
6 posts
Joined October 2015
Diabolica
I love this project.
keep up the awesome work your doing on it.
snyviper
87 posts
Joined April 2015
snyviper
I know this idea was brought here a while ago, but I'd like to polish it a bit and show you, so you can tell me what you think about it.

Someone said that HD should give memory points too, because it requires memory to remember that little time after the circle is gone. Here's what I think:
I think memory achieved by FL plays should remain the same, and HD plays should be added to the memory skill, but with much lower rewards than FL plays. Plus, the amount of circles on the screen should be taken into account, which would make EZ mod to become an ally to increase memory (even more than HD would increase). So, imo the rewards for memory should be something like this:
(HD) <= (EZ) < (FL) < (EZ+FL) <= (EZ+HD) < (HD+FL) = (HD+FL+EZ)

This would give some memory to most of those 22200 players who have 0 memory...

Notes:
Some really easy maps are harder to play with HD than with EZ or FL
CS sometimes matters when it comes with HD and/or flashlight
OD may be important when it comes to HD
Remember jumps is harder than to remember streams with EZ
Higher AR might make EZ easier than with lower AR (is it true?)
My memory isn't good enough for FL or EZ

So, what do you guys think?
Endaris
5,282 posts
Joined June 2010
Endaris
Please rethink what memory is about snyviper.
It is about memorization.
It's a simple fact that you don't have to memorize stuff outside of playing FL. If you think that EZ-players memorize the maps they play let me tell you that you are wrong. Even when playing EZHD I certainly don't memorize the map and unlike with FL I can get high combos on sightread if the map allows it.
abraker
Global Moderator
8,295 posts
Joined July 2014
abraker

Endaris wrote:

Please rethink what memory is about snyviper.
It is about memorization.
It's a simple fact that you don't have to memorize stuff outside of playing FL. If you think that EZ-players memorize the maps they play let me tell you that you are wrong. Even when playing EZHD I certainly don't memorize the map and unlike with FL I can get high combos on sightread if the map allows it.
EZHD does require some form of short-term memory if the AR is low enough, right?

Even if so, it's not comparable to the long-term memory needed for FL. So snyviper, I don't think EZHD would go into the memory skill. If it is still a skill, at this point there is an issue with there being too many skills and it calls for some sort of solution.
Last edited by abraker , edited 3 times in total.
Koizumi Chineko
14 posts
Joined August 2013
Koizumi Chineko
seems like score update doesn't work on precision ;-;
Endaris
5,282 posts
Joined June 2010
Endaris
EZHD is not especially different from playing HD on lower AR regarding its short-term memory aspect therefore it wouldn't make sense to give it an own reward.
abraker
Global Moderator
8,295 posts
Joined July 2014
abraker

Endaris wrote:

EZHD is not especially different from playing HD on lower AR regarding its short-term memory aspect therefore it wouldn't make sense to give it an own reward.
Well when I say EZHD, I mean the exaggerated form of HD on lower AR. Reading and short-term can be can seen as two seperate things due to the delay and lack of visual cue to see where and when to hit a note in EZHD?
Endaris
5,282 posts
Joined June 2010
Endaris
Not in particular. You can tweak animated line followpoints in a way that they give you a very good hint of where the next circle is located. The timing of followpoints is related to the circle appearing so you just have to put loads of blank files in there and only have a small area covered. Could even go as far as making calculations based on the map's bpm and altering the animation framerate accordingly.
And keeping the right order and reading is no different from EZ.
On top of it, the new HD makes it a lot easier to read correctly on EZHD as you can tell from the progression of the slider fade when the slider has to be played.
timemon
Beatmap Nominator
1,305 posts
Joined November 2012
timemon
my stats only updated when I submitted plays that entered my top ranks. I have 2 other plays, they're not on my top ranks but they're top 1000.
it's been 20 hours, is this normal?

this is one of them https://osu.ppy.sh/ss/5066590
Kert
2,079 posts
Joined June 2009
Topic Starter
Kert

timemon wrote:

my stats only updated when I submitted plays that entered my top ranks. I have 2 other plays, they're not on my top ranks but they're top 1000.
it's been 20 hours, is this normal?

this is one of them https://osu.ppy.sh/ss/5066590
Look at the top bar of your profile page.
Latest scores: from 2 days ago (from 1st of May 2016 17:20:44)
Wait a day or so and it should appear
unko
517 posts
Joined March 2014
unko

Kert wrote:

Latest scores: from 2 days ago (from 1st of May 2016 17:20:44)
This seems to be inaccurate for me, always saying 2 days ago, even though I have a score from 1 day ago in there.

Also, is there any reason why it ignores my C rank top 1000 scores? It's kind of strange, and I'm missing a (n abeit undeserved) top stamina score due to it.
Kert
2,079 posts
Joined June 2009
Topic Starter
Kert

Microsoft Vista wrote:

This seems to be inaccurate for me, always saying 2 days ago, even though I have a score from 1 day ago in there.
Because it's from your top PP, these are updated separately

Microsoft Vista wrote:

Also, is there any reason why it ignores my C rank top 1000 scores? It's kind of strange, and I'm missing a (n abeit undeserved) top stamina score due to it.
Which one? Depends on how old it is. But it shouldn't be ignored.
If you mean Granrodeo - Modern Strange Cowboy [DJPop's Insane] then wait a bit more
unko
517 posts
Joined March 2014
unko

Kert wrote:

If you mean Granrodeo - Modern Strange Cowboy [DJPop's Insane] then wait a bit more
I hope it does appear. Last 2(?) times I had Cs they never appeared until I replaced with B+. Though I don't see why this would happen.

Oh by the way I finally beat my nomod on fascination marisa so no more moaning abuot that :oops:
snyviper
87 posts
Joined April 2015
snyviper
I thought having so many players with 0 memory in a game which we sometimes get to know a nomod map before trying to fc it was... kinda weird xD that's why I put this suggestion here.
I do think Flashlight requires much more memory than any other mod, but some mods requires memory to play too. I gave an example on the suggestion post: "My memory isn't good enough for FL or EZ"
I'm bad at both mods, the same way many other people are, and I think the source of me being bad at them is the same, I have bad memory, the same way it seems you seem to get along with some both FL and EZHD maps, because you have better memory than me and about 22350 other players who have 0 memory.
It's ok, FL can require more memory than EZHD on most maps, but I think EZHD deserves some memory too.. I played your 123 memory map, I tried it with both FL and EZHD, my combo and accuracy were way lower on EZHD than on FL, because I couldn't remember which one I should have clicked first, so EZHD is also memory related. What worries me is what Abraker said...

abraker wrote:

at this point there is an issue with there being too many skills and it calls for some sort of solution.
So, more important than approaching a skill to reality is finding a way to make each one of them unique, right? Or do you want to get rid of some skills? Not sure about what you meant...
abraker
Global Moderator
8,295 posts
Joined July 2014
abraker

snyviper wrote:

It's ok, FL can require more memory than EZHD on most maps, but I think EZHD deserves some memory too.. I played your 123 memory map, I tried it with both FL and EZHD, my combo and accuracy were way lower on EZHD than on FL, because I couldn't remember which one I should have clicked first, so EZHD is also memory related.
Endaris did mention that there are skinning tricks to make this easier. That is something we cannot account for. Also don't compare EZHD with FL. EZHD is more similiar to EZ than to FL. Start out by saying, "I can EZ this map, but on EZHD....".

snyviper wrote:

So, more important than approaching a skill to reality is finding a way to make each one of them unique, right? Or do you want to get rid of some skills? Not sure about what you meant...
That is in regard of adding a new skill. Having too many skills will look like a mess. We would add it if it is clear as day that it's a lacking factor which can't be integrated into any of the existing skills.
snyviper
87 posts
Joined April 2015
snyviper

abraker wrote:

Also don't compare EZHD with FL. EZHD is more similiar to EZ than to FL.
If you say so... Both EZ, EZHD and FL are similarly hard for me, and I need to memorize the 3 of them, but like I said from the start, it was just a suggestion, I was making my point, and I wanted to know what you thought about it... Plus, I never tried any skinning trick for EZ, so I can't really say anything about that. Well, at least I learned memory is about memorization.

Alright, so... will EZ be implemented on reading then?
Endaris
5,282 posts
Joined June 2010
Endaris

snyviper wrote:

will reading be implemented then?
ftfy

Just try to learn all the mods with some patience before you make a judgement on their characteristics and specific difficulty.
The skinning tricks are also rather hypothetical(I didn't try anything yet) but there is no doubt that the new HD acts like approach circles on EZHD sliders.
Kert
2,079 posts
Joined June 2009
Topic Starter
Kert
The fact that the larger part of the playerbase has 0 Memory is closely related to the fact that barely anyone plays FL.
You could say that sightreading AR11 also requires some memory and a certain rhythmically hard map too, but it's just that it's not guaranteed that memory will be used.
FL is a different case
unko
517 posts
Joined March 2014
unko
yay i was extremely correct the c rank did not add
Kert
2,079 posts
Joined June 2009
Topic Starter
Kert
Just after your previous post it seems like the event feed we're getting top1000 scores from started to work differently.
That means we'll soon drop the support for this (if it won't fix itself for some reason) and implement alternative solution like allowing to add scores by hand (all scores are supported in this case).
XII
259 posts
Joined November 2013
XII

Khelly wrote:

I think 1000 stamina is nearly impossible to get. The highest score I've seen is 855 from mathew for a 2 miss on gekishow which has one 300 bpm longstream at the very end - so let's say 0 miss is 900 points. That means that you need to longstream 330 bpm or have some outrageous 300 bpm tower of heaven like map to get 1,000? Aoiro step at 323 short streams is only 714ish stamina.
There are a few people with higher than mithew's
unko
517 posts
Joined March 2014
unko

XII wrote:

Khelly wrote:

I think 1000 stamina is nearly impossible to get. The highest score I've seen is 855 from mathew for a 2 miss on gekishow which has one 300 bpm longstream at the very end - so let's say 0 miss is 900 points. That means that you need to longstream 330 bpm or have some outrageous 300 bpm tower of heaven like map to get 1,000? Aoiro step at 323 short streams is only 714ish stamina.
There are a few people with higher than mithew's
same map though!
silmarilen
5,579 posts
Joined February 2010
silmarilen

Kert wrote:

Just after your previous post it seems like the event feed we're getting top1000 scores from started to work differently.
That means we'll soon drop the support for this (if it won't fix itself for some reason) and implement alternative solution like allowing to add scores by hand (all scores are supported in this case).
So that's why my recent cs7 score didnt get added?
Yuudachi-kun
5,432 posts
Joined August 2014
Yuudachi-kun

Kert wrote:

Just after your previous post it seems like the event feed we're getting top1000 scores from started to work differently.
That means we'll soon drop the support for this (if it won't fix itself for some reason) and implement alternative solution like allowing to add scores by hand (all scores are supported in this case).

Now I don't have to fc ojamajo ahahaha
blahpy
297 posts
Joined November 2013
blahpy
Not sure if this has already been asked, but are there any plans to remove banned players?
Poncho
68 posts
Joined February 2014
Poncho
shouldnt accuracy weigh in atleast 5-10% into tenacity rating? being able to stream given bpm will allow you to acc it better so it would be a more accurate representation of the tenacity rating.
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