So here's a question I have because I didn't really participate in any discussion ever: Is the tapping (or tenacity, whatever) stat affected in long stream maps by how difficult those maps are agility wise? A few days ago I was playing four dimensions and I just wanted to verify if my failing stamina at the end was affected by aim which I guessed it was.

I played warpledge onslaught immediately after and got my x1000 combo. That map has little stream aim. Then I played https://osu.ppy.sh/b/267052 and didn't break on any of the longer streams even though it's the same bpm as Four dimensions. Then I immediately played Four dimensions autopilot and again, didn't break on the streams that I was losing stamina on when playing it properly. If anything, my stamina should be worse on each successive map since I didn't rest.

That was my unscientific experiment.

I talked about this with B1rd, which made realize an unforseen side effect from seperating the skills.

abraker wrote:

Separating the skills completely independent of each other may cause some other factors to occur. Players seem to be able to aim with the Relax mod and tap with auto pilot much better than nomod. The player focuses less on a general task the more independent tasks there are. I will have to look into how multitasking affects performance and see what the distribution of focus is between tapping and targeting given the map's requirements and player skill. That then should be weighted in to the skills to counterbalance the issue you are mentioning.

That's also why accurate lowbpm-streaming is terribly underrated. Even Granat has a higher streamrating than some 130bpm deathstream maps.

To be honest, under about 140 bpm, you can just singletap streams (Maybe if you're faster than me you can do 140 streams singletap well but I'm meh). 150-160 bpm streams is where I can't reliably singletap them at all and they're too slow to stream.

nyanyanyan nomod doesn't give any reasonable streaming score either.
From my point of view it is relatively random how much score a map gives unless it is clearly fast and streamheavy.
Just the fact alone that a map like Granat with exactly one quint as a non-FC-score with mediocre gives more points than a 99,x FC on a 4min 170bpm song with some actual streams is just stupid.

Please, show exact Granat vs streammap scores and their stamina/tenacity points. Both must be fc-s

It will be a complete mess if we mix tap difficulty with aim. I am strongly against this.
Buffing spaced streams is probably possible with some more precise tweaking. It's already considered to some extent.

Kert wrote:

It will be a complete mess if we mix tap difficulty with aim. I am strongly against this.

But do you deny that tap difficulty, at least for streams, is affected by aim?

It's not. The chance of a miss increases if you're bad at aiming/can't read in this case. You don't really need to press faster or for a longer time, because obviosly nothing changes in the rhythm.
Misses have the most impact on received points (any skill) and I don't think that it's possible to identify from the lack of what skill a certain miss happened.
The problem here is agilty value of a big fast jump sequence in comparison with a spaced stream. I repeat, we haven't found a good balance yet.

.

Kert wrote:

I don't know what you're trying to say then anymore

That despite the agility stat implying aim, it doesn't seem to consider circle size at all
Or I guess you know this already so I might just be saying that I see it as a slight problem xd
Precision exists, right? Interestingly it seems to consider more than just the circle size alone

Aye sir, unfortunately I can't FC Granat but
Drop - Granat (Kaguya Hourain) [Natural Gem] (96.67%)
awards me 267 points for Tenacity with 163 combo, 2 misses and 6 100s
The map has a total of 3 quads in terms of streams if I didn't miscount. Based on the information you gave earlier in the thread, minimum-length has to be 6 notes before it is considered as a stream so this map should be considered as a map without streams.

while
Touyama Nao & Yamazaki Haruka - Ringo Ribbon (Fycho) [Insane] (99.4%)
as FC awards me 242 points for Tenacity even though I can clearly remember that it had a couple of streams above 6 notes even though you can't call it a streammap.

In any case, we still got nostreams+noFC vs FC+fewstreams and the latter gives less points which doesn't make sense to me.

For reference I got as FCs
Raujika - Cry More (Broccoly) [Broccoly] +HD (99.86%) 200 points
Otokaze - Mallow Flower (spboxer3) [Mallow] +HD (100%) 217 points
Otokaze - Karen (Short Ver.) (spboxer3) [Hanabi] (99.08%) 237 points
As you probably know these 3 are all exclusive singletap-maps which is why they shouldn't award any points for streaming at all and even if they appear they shouldn't get close to a map that contains something you can actually call a stream.

I have a suggestion.It would have more competition if a country ranking is added.It should be quite easy to make right?:P

Minecraft570 wrote:

I have a suggestion.It would have more competition if a country ranking is added.It should be quite easy to make right?:P

osu!supporter
It's already implemented, need to spend money tho

Minecraft570 wrote:

I have a suggestion.It would have more competition if a country ranking is added.It should be quite easy to make right?:P

Takes a bit of time, but yes it can be done.

The Actor, you forgot to read what this thread is about
but yeah we still need osu!Skills donations to keep the site alive
currently they barely manage to cover the costs

Last updates: Top 100 — 9 days ago
pls help it's not a one time issue xd

I was right about all of the titles actually. Just wondering who's the one privileged with the 'tenacious' title. Stamina only is even undiscovered. And there is a title better than versatile. It's probably called Master or something and I guess it requires ~800 stamina and tenacity, speaking from experience this looks very difficult to achieve, although we have a cheater on #1 on these skills, he might do it and unlock the epic title lulz.

Momiji wrote:

Last updates: Top 100 — 9 days ago
pls help it's not a one time issue xd

Sorry, weird stuff happens and I don't know the cause yet : (

Defacer wrote:

although we have a cheater on #1 on these skills, he might do it and unlock the epic title lulz.

We'll try to think of something to prevent this~

The website says "last update 2 hours ago" but none of my recent plays are anywhere. Are sure that it updated correctly?

I figured out what's the source of the problem is. It's partly connected to osu!api servers sometimes being unreachable
Hopefully top100 scores will be updated tomorrow (I set it to start updating today at midnight)

Yeah, top100 scores have been updated!
Sorry for the inconvinience!
It took wooping 24 hours for the updater to do the task wow. osu!api server is under stress I suppose

Just noticed something on precision - high cs on hardrock and easier maps is overweighted compared to lower cs's and harder maps.

For example (and I know this is an exaggeration), Rocket (https://osu.ppy.sh/b/340) on Easy diff is much easier to aim (b/c it's slower) than maps like Insane Techniques (https://osu.ppy.sh/b/389703) and Chesire,s Dance (https://osu.ppy.sh/b/383536), but it's rated higher. How is this first score weighted more than the second? Rocket gives you ample time to aim, whereas Insane Techniques is full of sliders, 1/4 jumps, etc.

Low-quality proof:
(http://imgur.com/a/VIYYJ)

Have you considered renaming Accuracy? Just because I always confuse it for Precision and have to look up the difference. Maybe something like Rhythm or Timing?

I think the name "Accuracy" shouldn't be changed... it's everywhere in osu website, ingame... and it always mean the same thing. Precision is the one that's not written in anywhere. I once thought about suggesting to change it to Aim, but... the name "Precision" is better imo.

gameon123321 wrote:

Just noticed something on precision - high cs on hardrock and easier maps is overweighted compared to lower cs's and harder maps.

For example (and I know this is an exaggeration), Rocket (https://osu.ppy.sh/b/340) on Easy diff is much easier to aim (b/c it's slower) than maps like Insane Techniques (https://osu.ppy.sh/b/389703) and Chesire,s Dance (https://osu.ppy.sh/b/383536), but it's rated higher. How is this first score weighted more than the second? Rocket gives you ample time to aim, whereas Insane Techniques is full of sliders, 1/4 jumps, etc.

Low-quality proof:
(http://imgur.com/a/VIYYJ)

We'll look into it. It's been reported quite a few times actually

Meanwhile, a new update appears.

Country rankings added!
You can also see country / global ranks in player profiles.
Also everything is clickable so you can easily navigate from profiles to country / global rankings to specific pages where you are placed.

Keep in mind that if a player was never checked on the site before it can take up to 10 minutes for him to appear in the rankings.

Wow the new rankings are great, been hyped by it all day, though I wanted to post about something else:

https://osu.ppy.sh/ss/4611791

I made this score in December and it is top100, but it didn't get in my memory performance. Is it intentional, or some kind of bug?

_verto_ wrote:

Wow the new rankings are great, been hyped by it all day, though I wanted to post about something else:

https://osu.ppy.sh/ss/4611791

I made this score in December and it is top100, but it didn't get in my memory performance. Is it intentional, or some kind of bug?

I took a look, and it's possible to sightread that map with FL, so no skill points in memory

U.S stamina 3
Tenacity 6
Agility 9

Wellp

Khelly wrote:

U.S stamina 3
Tenacity 6
Agility 9

Wellp

I believe it's still processing. I saw n/a for some players

abraker wrote:

_verto_ wrote:

Wow the new rankings are great, been hyped by it all day, though I wanted to post about something else:

https://osu.ppy.sh/ss/4611791

I made this score in December and it is top100, but it didn't get in my memory performance. Is it intentional, or some kind of bug?

I took a look, and it's possible to sightread that map with FL, so no skill points in memory

That makes sense, though there are a lot of easy/normal maps that give memory points:
http://puu.sh/nmp6o/d8bf654245.png
^I think this is FCable on sightread as well.

If I HRFL'd land of snow, would it give memory points?

Also I'm not sure about this one, since I was only top100 for a few hours/days and I don't think it's sightread fcable with FL unless you are really fast with the cursor to scout the area, but https://osu.ppy.sh/ss/4612473 this might be ignored by the algorithm as well.

HDHRFL definetly gets it. I think it will need to be at least a HDFL

though there are a lot of easy/normal maps that give memory points:
http://puu.sh/nmp6o/d8bf654245.png
^I think this is FCable on sightread as well.

The algorithm thinks you have to remember where the notes are after each break. I need to check if it's AR dependent because you can go wild with the cursor and get the notes. I think it would be harder to pull off an Exgon at higher AR.

abraker wrote:

Khelly wrote:

U.S stamina 3
Tenacity 6
Agility 9

Wellp

I believe it's still processing. I saw n/a for some players

It was N/A for me and I had to manually change the link from page 0 to page 1 when I clicked on my N/A.

Is it cause scores etc may still be processing? it's also missing a lot of my recent scores and it says "4 months ago" on every profile I go to.

Better wait for kert to come on. Dunno what's with the web stuff :\

TheLukay wrote:

Is it cause scores etc may still be processing? it's also missing a lot of my recent scores and it says "4 months ago" on every profile I go to.

You're accessing the test part of the site (you can check the link of the page to be sure). Some cache problems on your side most likely
Go to main page and start from there and if you have problems press ctrl-f5 to clean cache on the page.

woo it's awesome!

thank you for making something for me to farm other than pp

Why is this map rated so highly with memory? i get more fomr a dthrfl on that than a hddtfl on this one While the first map was a sightread and the 2nd one took me over 100 tries.

This is really cool, but I do have a couple triple of irks with the stamina/tenacity stats:


* It doesn't seem to be rated as high as agility. It's kind of arbitrary, but basically the numbers are lower than equivalent agility scores. An FC on Kuchizuke Diamond DT nets you 1064 agility points, but Rlsc's score on Fascination MAXX (EZDT, 300 bpm longstreams) only gets 846 for stamina. As far as I know, there's no acc or EZ weighting, so theoretically this would even be the same with a DT-only FC-- maybe give a couple more since he missed right at the end.

* Fast small bursts seem to be overrated. Luv-Lab-Poison 22ate! on the Lethal difficulty with DT, for example, gets you 790 stamina points, which I believe is one of the highest scores currently achieved on there. However, there are only a few 5 note bursts at 340bpm. Very fast, but they require little effort to get past. Another example of this is Breakthrough Atmosphere; 763 for an FC.

* There's also no weighting for OD and accuracy. Not sure how this would be approached though since an 89% score could be slightly overstreamed/wrong offset, or understreamed to the point of near-failure. (totally not trying to save my own low-acc ass) You'd have to tread carefully there. However, maybe EZ and fixed OD should be worth a little less.


Keep it up though, it's fun having two things to farm now (which sometimes link into each other!!! Xddddddd)

Microsoft Vista wrote:

This is really cool, but I do have a couple of irks with the stamina/tenacity stats:

* It doesn't seem to be rated as high as agility. It's kind of arbitrary, but basically the numbers are lower than equivalent agility scores. An FC on Kuchizuke Diamond DT nets you 1064 agility points, but Rlsc's score on Fascination MAXX (EZDT, 300 bpm longstreams) only gets 846 for stamina. As far as I know, there's no acc or EZ weighting, so theoretically this would even be the same with a DT-only FC-- maybe give a couple more since he missed right at the end.

* Fast small bursts seem to be overrated. Luv-Lab-Poison 22ate! on the Lethal difficulty, for example, with DT gets you 790 stamina points, which I believe is one of the highest scores currently achieved on there. However, there are only a few 5 note bursts at 340bpm. Very fast, but they require little effort to get past. Another example of this is Breakthrough Atmosphere; 763 for an FC.

Keep it up though, it's fun having two things to farm now (which sometimes link into each other!!! Xddddddd)

dude just compare rlsc's scores with mine, SUCH BULLSHIT.

You forgot to mention that it doesn't take OD into account!

XII wrote:

Microsoft Vista wrote:

This is really cool, but I do have a couple of irks with the stamina/tenacity stats:

* It doesn't seem to be rated as high as agility. It's kind of arbitrary, but basically the numbers are lower than equivalent agility scores. An FC on Kuchizuke Diamond DT nets you 1064 agility points, but Rlsc's score on Fascination MAXX (EZDT, 300 bpm longstreams) only gets 846 for stamina. As far as I know, there's no acc or EZ weighting, so theoretically this would even be the same with a DT-only FC-- maybe give a couple more since he missed right at the end.

* Fast small bursts seem to be overrated. Luv-Lab-Poison 22ate! on the Lethal difficulty, for example, with DT gets you 790 stamina points, which I believe is one of the highest scores currently achieved on there. However, there are only a few 5 note bursts at 340bpm. Very fast, but they require little effort to get past. Another example of this is Breakthrough Atmosphere; 763 for an FC.

Keep it up though, it's fun having two things to farm now (which sometimes link into each other!!! Xddddddd)

dude just compare rlsc's scores with mine, SUCH BULLSHIT.

You forgot to mention that it doesn't take OD into account!

ok i edited it to appease the mom

Microsoft Vista wrote:

ok i edited it to appease the mom

Good little gnome

Also could you add a profile link on our osu skills profile so we can easily check players out without having to copy their names? Just a small thing to make stuff easier.

Keeping on the never-ending trend of suggesting shit, it'd be cool being able to list players by titles, sorted by their primary stat or alphabetically or whatever

Microsoft Vista wrote:

Keeping on the never-ending trend of suggesting shit, it'd be cool being able to list players by titles, sorted by their primary stat or alphabetically or whatever

Oh that's a good one and while we're at it can you kert tell us what the actual difference between Stamina and Tenacity is?

XII wrote:

Microsoft Vista wrote:

Keeping on the never-ending trend of suggesting shit, it'd be cool being able to list players by titles, sorted by their primary stat or alphabetically or whatever

Oh that's a good one and while we're at it can you kert tell us what the actual difference between Stamina and Tenacity is?

From what I can tell it seems that Stamina is based on speed of tapping and for how long for everything in the song while Tenacity seems to be ONLY streaming acc and speed.

Also, I am apparently I am Adventurous and Agility (Raw Aim) and Tenacity (Streaming) are my strong suits based on the higher numbers.

Edit: Also can confirm I think I already like this more then score v2 kek.

Laura_Bodewig wrote:

From what I can tell it seems that Stamina is based on speed of tapping and for how long for everything in the song while Tenacity seems to be ONLY streaming acc and speed.

Also, I am apparently I am Adventurous and Agility (Raw Aim) and Tenacity (Streaming) are my strong suits based on the higher numbers.

Edit: Also can confirm I think I already like this more then score v2 kek.

LOL true, this might be why stamina section doesn't take acc into account at all.

I'm almost #1 country in 3 categories while my pp is #6

Funny thing how here im ranked around 10k for everything and yet by peppy im 40k

HK_ wrote:

Funny thing how here im ranked around 10k for everything and yet by peppy im 40k

Not every player is in their database of course, the numbers are only really accurate (compared to global ranking) for top 1000 or so of each stat.

Thats lame...but i still like it way more than peppy system

silmarilen wrote:

Why is this map rated so highly with memory? i get more fomr a dthrfl on that than a hddtfl on this one While the first map was a sightread and the 2nd one took me over 100 tries.

I will take a look at this. Something tells me that it's the 1st one that is overrated. Btw, tell me if the 2nd one looks fine in comparison with your other higher Memory scores.

XII wrote:

Also could you add a profile link on our osu skills profile so we can easily check players out without having to copy their names? Just a small thing to make stuff easier.

Do you mean links to official osu! profiles? If yes - it's planned. If you mean links to osu!Skills profile - your username on the profile page contains the link.

Microsoft Vista wrote:

Keeping on the never-ending trend of suggesting shit, it'd be cool being able to list players by titles, sorted by their primary stat or alphabetically or whatever

Maybe.

Laura_Bodewig wrote:

From what I can tell it seems that Stamina is based on speed of tapping and for how long for everything in the song while Tenacity seems to be ONLY streaming acc and speed.

Wrong.
Tenacity doesn't care about accuracy. Tenacity only rates the longest / fastest streams in the maps.
Stamina is based on how much you have to tap / how fast and gives more points if you have to do it often / for longer periods of time.

HK_ wrote:

Thats lame...but i still like it way more than peppy system

You can go and enter all users above your osu! pp rank in our site to fill the database if you want : )

Kert wrote:

You can go and enter all users above your osu! pp rank in our site to fill the database if you want : )

I have no idea how but id gladly help. For the sake of science.

Kert wrote:

silmarilen wrote:

Why is this map rated so highly with memory? i get more fomr a dthrfl on that than a hddtfl on this one While the first map was a sightread and the 2nd one took me over 100 tries.

I will take a look at this. Something tells me that it's the 1st one that is overrated. Btw, tell me if the 2nd one looks fine in comparison with your other higher Memory scores.

2nd one feels like it's in the right place imo.

Kert wrote:

Tenacity doesn't care about accuracy. Tenacity only rates the longest / fastest streams in the maps.
Stamina is based on how much you have to tap / how fast and gives more points if you have to do it often / for longer periods of time.

Wow, I didn't know tenacity didn't escalate with accuracy, does stamina do? Actually... all the information is surprising to me xD

I think tenacity should escalate just very slightly, just so players (FC) with 100% acc can have that 1 point of score over 99%, and 2 points over 97%, and 3 points over 94%, and so on... so they can realize they were actually better or worse than someone else on that beatmap.

Idk how much accuracy escalates on stamina, or if it doesn't escalates at all, but imo stamina needs to be escalated more than "very slightly" (but not that much though). When I'm playing full streams maps, like tower of heaven, my accuracy keeps dropping at the end, even if I fc it.

It's just a suggestion, as I have no idea which kind of impact this would have on osuskills...

snyviper wrote:

Kert wrote:

Tenacity doesn't care about accuracy. Tenacity only rates the longest / fastest streams in the maps.
Stamina is based on how much you have to tap / how fast and gives more points if you have to do it often / for longer periods of time.

Wow, I didn't know tenacity didn't escalate with accuracy, does stamina do? Actually... all the information is surprising to me xD

I think tenacity should escalate just very slightly, just so players (FC) with 100% acc can have that 1 point of score over 99%, and 2 points over 97%, and 3 points over 94%, and so on... so they can realize they were actually better or worse than someone else on that beatmap.

Idk how much accuracy escalates on stamina, or if it doesn't escalates at all, but imo stamina needs to be escalated more than "very slightly" (but not that much though). When I'm playing full streams maps, like tower of heaven, my accuracy keeps dropping at the end, even if I fc it.

It's just a suggestion, as I have no idea which kind of impact this would have on osuskills...

My speed score that is worth like 740 stamina is the same amount as someone with 5% lower acc AND someone with EZ DT same acc.

snyviper wrote:

Wow, I didn't know tenacity didn't escalate with accuracy, does stamina do? Actually... all the information is surprising to me xD

It's the other way around - accuracy escalates with tenacity a bit.

Kert wrote:

Meanwhile, a new update appears.

Country rankings added!
You can also see country / global ranks in player profiles.
Also everything is clickable so you can easily navigate from profiles to country / global rankings to specific pages where you are placed.

Keep in mind that if a player was never checked on the site before it can take up to 10 minutes for him to appear in the rankings.

I love you.

Which are the differences between Ambitious and Versatile? theorically both of these means that your 4 stats stamina/tenacity/agility/accuracy are ballanced, but I don't find any logical difference between Vesatile or Ambitous.

Another thing is that I don't understand at all the dicfferences between stamina and tenacity. Due it's very common that players that have one of these really high will have the another high as well. Out of this, I don't understand how could be possible to see a Frantic tittle. I've seen some few Adamant players, but I have not yet seen any Frantic player.

Apart some tittles are too strange to see, on a system like ppv2 which favours mainly Spirited, Swift and Berserk players because really high acc over high aim requirements is what gives most pp on here (berserks ocasionally have good acc on low OD maps, so for osu!skills that's low acc but for ppv2 isn't that low). So this means that is how I don't see possible seing a player with Fearless banner (which requires low agility compared to the other 3 stats).

As a sugestion, I would recommend to raise stamina value on long combo maps that aren't too easy meanwhile leaving tenacity for maps with heavy streams around the song (example, pernicious develiet).

...So, I'm having issues with my profile updating:


I've beaten this score with a new top50 score with better accuracy 2 days ago (as shown here @ 98.62%), yet it's still showing my old score as my most valued score. Can this be fixed, or is this due to some limitation?

It didn't reach your top PP so it will update when global scoreboard top update happens - in about 2 days.

Ahh, I see. Thanks for the quick answer

No problem. We may soon have everything updated in real-time with more scores than just top100 scores (if everything goes well)
ohoho

Idea

Adding a hover for description on titles, so you don't have to go to the FAQ to find out their meaning.

Or just link every description to the FAQ

Not sure if this had been mentioned, but I noticed that precision doesn't scale well with BPM. I know this is a bit subjective, but I think this is why newer HR maps weight so little compared to old high CS stuff, or why my speed of link HTHR score is so high up there.



Edit: in comparison, a HR fc on that speed of link diff only gives 28 points more:

That is actually pretty good ! Nice job over there

Would be nice to see how it would work with any global rank that anyone has, would make least common tittles more common.

_verto_ wrote:

Not sure if this had been mentioned, but I noticed that precision doesn't scale well with BPM. I know this is a bit subjective, but I think this is why newer HR maps weight so little compared to old high CS stuff, or why my speed of link HTHR score is so high up there.



Edit: in comparison, a HR fc on that speed of link diff only gives 28 points more:

That's all pretty subjective but it'll be tweaked at some point.

ReynBolt wrote:

Would be nice to see how it would work with any global rank that anyone has, would make least common tittles more common.

Please, rephase. I don't understand what you mean.

Kert wrote:

That's all pretty subjective but it'll be tweaked at some point.

That's cool, just keep in mind that the same map with 3/4 its speed worths only 5% less precision points right now.

hi just wanna ask because i am really keen into this but are you maybe planning on making a mobile app version?

RyanGBW wrote:

hi just wanna ask because i am really keen into this but are you maybe planning on making a mobile app version?

Why? Just go on the website using your mobile device

abraker wrote:

RyanGBW wrote:

hi just wanna ask because i am really keen into this but are you maybe planning on making a mobile app version?

Why? Just go on the website using your mobile device

just curious thats all. :3

No, a mobile version is not planned and might never be planned.

Mobile version of the website is planned. Not the app though.

Kert wrote:

No problem. We may soon have everything updated in real-time with more scores than just top100 scores (if everything goes well)
ohoho

If this happens, I'm going to start seriously farming HRHDDTFL for Memory points.

I think there is something wrong with your stamina skill


At the very bottom is a 4 minutes map filled with nonstop 175 bpm streams

Above that is a 200bpm map that is almost all 1/2 jumps

At the very top is a 175 bpm jump map that barely requires any stamina.

How long are the streams?
Afaik airman has a part with multiple long consecutive streams without breaks
I don't remember other maps

All it has are some stacks that are fairly isolated.

The streams in Kanjou chemistry are mostly short, but they're spaced and there are a lot of them.

How about mod skills, like HD skill, DT skill, HR skill, and FL skill instead of memorization, also EZ skill, but EZ is cheatable with skinning so idk

Kert sorry for the delay at responding you, I just didn't revise this thread earlier :/

I mean, actual ppv2 system favours good accuracy over high aim requeriments. So this means, that any no #100 position on a map or any no top performance rank will not be taken into consideration for actual statistics at osu!skills. So if we consider this fact, spirited and berserk players are obviously the most common tittles; also berserk players are mainly +99% or smashers but at OD7. Even in the case of 99% at OD7, that's not worth as much accuracy by osu!skills but at ppv2 that's fine and the map will appear at the performance list of that player.

Fearless banner is too rare to see because it needs of all 3 stats (Stamina, Tenacity and Accuracy) at good values but Agility at a considerably inferior value. I don't see how fearless tittle can be gained considering that all top performances from ppv2 are based from good aim+accuracy, so if a map has no enough spacing betwen the notes it has more chances to be underrated and then to not be taken into consideration to a top performances list and in the end to not be taken in consideration by osu!skills.

Sugestion:
- Creating another tittle apart of berserk that bases in high stamina, high tenacity, high agility but low in accuracy in ranks of over 95% accuracy
- Leaving berserk tittle for players with FC of commonly less than 93.34% acc (all these that ends in A FC rank or lower grade because of no enough 300's for S). .

Because seriously 99% OD7 ranks are not from smashing. There are many 3000 pp nomod players with 99% accuracy at OD7 that ends having berserk tittles.

I hope I could explain well my point about fearless trait, I'm not english native speaker and it costs me to express oneself my toughts about that idea.

Well i can confirm that while i do most stream maps with high acc, im still a berzerk. example: https://osu.ppy.sh/ss/4708048
Though i have alot of DT maps with low acc which increased my agility and tenacity, these get to my top ranks from spamming all over my keyboard https://osu.ppy.sh/ss/4719962

That means i have no way of getting accuracy unless i only play od7-od8 with dt, since nomod is undervalued. My second top rank in acc is a really low od8+dt http://osuskills.tk/user/Rad-/skill/accuracy

Another thing i noticed is for a while i was adventurous, but nothing was clear as to why that moment my tenacity and agility were so high.


P.S.: Update top 100s now so i dont have to wait a full week to become top 50 global in precision

ReynBolt wrote:

I mean, actual ppv2 system favours good accuracy over high aim requeriments. So this means, that any no #100 position on a map or any no top performance rank will not be taken into consideration for actual statistics at osu!skills. So if we consider this fact, spirited and berserk players are obviously the most common tittles; also berserk players are mainly +99% or smashers but at OD7. Even in the case of 99% at OD7, that's not worth as much accuracy by osu!skills but at ppv2 that's fine and the map will appear at the performance list of that player.

Fearless banner is too rare to see because it needs of all 3 stats (Stamina, Tenacity and Accuracy) at good values but Agility at a considerably inferior value. I don't see how fearless tittle can be gained considering that all top performances from ppv2 are based from good aim+accuracy, so if a map has no enough spacing betwen the notes it has more chances to be underrated and then to not be taken into consideration to a top performances list and in the end to not be taken in consideration by osu!skills.

Limited data due top ranks is nothing new. We are trying to come up with a ranking system based on a system which undervalues something this system values, which is a poor start, but the only way it can be dealt with for now. Hopefully the upcoming update will give more chance to obtain the otherwise unobtainable plays. Also, theoretically it can capture some of the lower scores if a map was ranked close to the time when it gathers the top 100, so maybe have luck in that too.

Endaris wrote:

SPOILER

Aye sir, unfortunately I can't FC Granat but
Drop - Granat (Kaguya Hourain) [Natural Gem] (96.67%)
awards me 267 points for Tenacity with 163 combo, 2 misses and 6 100s
The map has a total of 3 quads in terms of streams if I didn't miscount. Based on the information you gave earlier in the thread, minimum-length has to be 6 notes before it is considered as a stream so this map should be considered as a map without streams.

while
Touyama Nao & Yamazaki Haruka - Ringo Ribbon (Fycho) [Insane] (99.4%)
as FC awards me 242 points for Tenacity even though I can clearly remember that it had a couple of streams above 6 notes even though you can't call it a streammap.

In any case, we still got nostreams+noFC vs FC+fewstreams and the latter gives less points which doesn't make sense to me.

For reference I got as FCs
Raujika - Cry More (Broccoly) [Broccoly] +HD (99.86%) 200 points
Otokaze - Mallow Flower (spboxer3) [Mallow] +HD (100%) 217 points
Otokaze - Karen (Short Ver.) (spboxer3) [Hanabi] (99.08%) 237 points
As you probably know these 3 are all exclusive singletap-maps which is why they shouldn't award any points for streaming at all and even if they appear they shouldn't get close to a map that contains something you can actually call a stream.

Since I finally FCd that Granat thing these should finally be fully comparable:

181bpm
Drop - Granat (Kaguya Hourain) [Natural Gem] (99.26%)
284 tenacity-points
2 Quads, rest are singles/sliders

176bpm
Touyama Nao & Yamazaki Haruka - Ringo Ribbon (Fycho) [Insane] (99.4%)
242 tenacity-points
At least 3 1/4 patterns with 6-8 notes(you said 6 was the keynumber)

The only reason I can imagine for the score difference is the "very tapping intensive" 90,5bpm triangle deathstream towards the end of Granat.

At the same time I'm getting this:

168bpm
Owl City - Gold (Frostmourne) [Insane] +HD (99.52%)
352 tenacity-points
which has exactly one 8-12 note stream and entirely consists of jumps and quints otherwise

Adder wrote:

but EZ is cheatable with skinning so idk

you what

also, replying to that guy from a few days back, http://osuskills.tk/user/keigoclear - here's a fearless player

yay someone with Fearless trait! Also I was quiestioning about the existence of Frantic players, but a week ago Crai was under that category, but he (or she IDK) raised more the aim/accuracy and ended becoming to Spirited tag. Also since this, I got some ideas that each tittle is not necesary better than any other.

From this I concluded:
1.- Crai was tagged at frantic, but at improving 2 variables he gained spirited.
2.- If a spirited player raises enough his stamina value then (s)he becomes frantic instead spirited.
3.- This can happen to any tittles that are closer eachother.

Also something I really like of this system is that an HR 97.70% accuracy like a lot of these I oftenly do can archieve at osu!skills higher accuracy than these +99% DT of OD9 in which I gain too oftenly free accuracy. So at ppv2 97.70% HR is trash valued in pp but at +99.5% acc becomes in the range of overrated at ppv2. At osu!skills, even 97.70% accuracy is worth as good accuracy and not so underrated at all.


Looking at this screenshot of my accuracy page (some of best, but not the best of them) in accuracy tier


Thunderstruck at this accuracy is only worth as 182-184 pp which isn't enough to be considered in my top performance list because of commonly overrated maps and that from my sight some of these are meaningless next to Thunderstruck. On osu!skills is my 6th best accuracy score.

About the other 3 quoted DT's, looks fair to me that any of these ocupate 4th, 5th and 7th places in accuracy because all of these 3 DT's are OD9.67, but ofc in pp terms they all are worth over +200 pp any of these and Jamaican love is slightly overrated with a value of 218 pp just because it has more spacing than all the other 2 DT's that for me are harder to acc ... tapping technique is being underrated at ppv2 compared to just more spacing, that's why I say jamaican love is overrated compared to these other 2 DTs!.

That is why I'm following this project, looks more rasonable than ppv2 logics at busting just +99% meaningless accuracy DT's, likely my delis insane koigokoro being my #2 on pp lmao ... meanwhile it's just my #25 on accuracy at osu!skills and that only appears on agility list at #39 at aim lmao and my aim has deficiency! ... koigokoro doesn't archieve any position at both stamina or tenacity rankings of mine.

Will Hidden be included in Reading skill?
Also, even on very high AR, maps with less notes density per time (like less BPM or bigger Snap Divisor) are much easier to read and react to. AR 11 is much easier to read on something that's still below 3 stars, even with HRDT, than some insane or extra diffs.
Will this be taken into account?

[ Shina0Neko ] wrote:

First time seeing this.

Did you try to change the language manually ?

Right click on the site and then click on '' translate to (whatever language you use) english''

There's no translating option for me, maybe it's browser dependent or you have some browser add-on that does it?

Kert wrote:

Scarlet Evans wrote:

Is there any other, more accessible way to donate?
I wanted to donate, but I completely have no idea what I am asked for. There's just one option,"PayPal", after clicking which I am redirected to the page that is completely in Russian
...

Changed language to English. Thank you for your generosity!

Strange, it's still Russian for me =(
I'm not in Russia and other pages recognises me as being in Poland properly, so it's not related to changing to the language of the region I am in.

Maybe you should add some other option to donate then?

Scarlet Evans wrote:

Will Hidden be included in Reading skill?
Also, even on very high AR, maps with less notes density per time (like less BPM or bigger Snap Divisor) are much easier to read and react to. AR 11 is much easier to read on something that's still below 3 stars, even with HRDT, than some insane or extra diffs.
Will this be taken into account?

Hidden will be accounted for, yes.

Yes, ofc low note density is easier to read and react to, high or low AR. The hard part are the patterns themselves when there are higher note densities. With AR 11 even a density of 6 visible notes can be easy to read if it's an evenly, short spaced stream or stack. Now swap 2 notes in that stream and you get something that is pretty hard to react to. Under low AR a player would see it coming, and therefore the swap would give little effect in terms of reading unless another note is to be on top of it.

As of right now I am exploring the possibility of spliting the reading skill into reaction and reading. I don't think it makes sense labeling reading as high AR when players typically react to higher AR rather than "read" it. Reaction would therefore be the exact opposite of reading. The reaction skill would focus on sparseness chaos and time to react. The reading skill would focus on clutter chaos and time to read.

Currently I have a prototype formula for reaction and am doing some testing on it. I think it will still going to be a while before it will be ready.

Scarlet Evans wrote:

Strange, it's still Russian for me =(
I'm not in Russia and other pages recognises me as being in Poland properly, so it's not related to changing to the language of the region I am in.

Maybe you should add some other option to donate then?

Fixed once again. oh those regression moments in development

abraker wrote:

I don't think it makes sense labeling reading as high AR when players typically react to higher AR rather than "read" it.

"Reaction" in this sense is a buzzword. People definitely can and do read at AR11, but it's true that it needs better reaction than reading most of the time because the maps that are usually DTHR'd (the <160bpm ones, not counting Rafis and hvick here) have very low density and simple patterns.
That being said, I agree that reading should be split that way, high AR and low AR are different aspects of the same skill so it doesn't make sense to lump them together.

Would be nice if precision scale with accuracy as well because ocasionaly you can spam at really small circles to gain an easy FCs of 82-90% accuracy at cs6.5 or even cs7.8 like I did on this case, also on this case that cs7.8 FC is irrelevant because it's not even at the top 1k.

Also, it's commonly seen that maps with most precision values on most people are normal-hards +HR with cs6.5 or even cs7.8 circles, meanwhile you need considerably more precision skills to FC an insane of CS6 nomod or even an extra of cs5.2 with HR for example. It's not scaling that well with bpm tapping or spacing at all but giving an huge priority at the size of circles regardless of the accuracy.

It's been a month and reading skill isn't implemented yet.
Is that the most complex system?

Rilene wrote:

It's been a month and reading skill isn't implemented yet.
Is that the most complex system?

It's on par with space exploration missions.
Well personally I am a bit busy with irl stuff so the development lags from time to time.

Rilene wrote:

It's been a month and reading skill isn't implemented yet.
Is that the most complex system?

I am working on it and it is indeed complex. You are essentially trying to predict how, how fast, and how accurately humans process visual information. I have a theory of how reading works and am currently modeling the timings of eye movement, human reaction, time it takes the cursor to move, etc to better understand how high AR reading works. I wouldnt expect a new skill for a while. I can release teasers of the stuff I am working on from time to time if that will make you feel any better

Wow, hope you guys can do that soon as if there are lots of player waiting for that and as well as the development rate as Kert said.

http://osuskills.tk/user/Microsoft%20Vista why have my stamina+tenacity gone down by like 150 points? even though all my raw values are still the same

as far as i know nobody else has gone down like that

Can anyone explain to me what is going on?

Most likely some of your scores fell below top100 (Blame a global scoreboard update 4 hours ago)
Sorry for that.
Edit: It was a bug after all

But on the bright side - scores should never dissapear again from now on.

Ok i see the update now
Only new record only, sosad

Skill show is arevage of all ranked score?
I'm full of 350-480 for agility and I only have an "average" of 116 now

Anyway, most of my result are still in top 100,and no result fall from top 100...
It should not fall that rapidly. isnt it bug or something?

Minecraft570 wrote:

Anyway, most of my result are still in top 100,and no result fall from top 100...
It should not fall that rapidly. isnt it bug or something?

yeah, my stamina, tenacity and agility have all gone down considerably even though i'm pretty sure only one of my stamina scores is top 100 (it's actually still there and in the top 50 lol), the rest are pp-based

also i checked a few other profiles and their values have also gone down a little bit but not as much as mine or minecraft570

CelegaS wrote:

Skill show is arevage of all ranked score?
I'm full of 350-480 for agility and I only have an "average" of 116 now

You need to have more scores for a better approximation

Minecraft570 wrote:

Anyway, most of my result are still in top 100,and no result fall from top 100...
It should not fall that rapidly. isnt it bug or something?

Will be fixed soon. I found the problem

Edit: Fixed. Ranks will auto-update in a few minutes
Thank you all very much for your ultra-fast feedback!