Kuo Kyoka wrote:

okay, bn check

1234567

[Generals]
i have an improvement for your hitsound now, http://puu.sh/mmPcU/244cf13c0f.rar
delete old hitsound before add new hitsound
use new hitsound by hitsound copier ! sure

[7K Normal]
00:44:820 (44820|2,44873|3,44927|4,45570|1,45641|2,45712|3,45784|4,46498|4,46570|5,46641|6) - mostly it's not recommended in Normal diffnerfed
00:56:498 - very loud sound in here, why not add 1-2 notes?add one note
01:06:784 - seem you missing a note on 1
01:20:498 - intended. It would be too hard to add a note there imo

[7K Hard]
00:21:927 (21927|2) - it's possible to hear 1/6 in here I guess you mean it is not? I deleted that note(I believe it is quite inaudible)
00:49:212 - a strong cymbal here, don't you want to add one more note in here? Nope not taht strong
01:08:766 (68766|4,68820|5,68873|6) - no 1/8 in here, it's just higher sound of this section 01:08:498 - to 01:08:927 - I think we can discuss about this a little bit further. I definitely hear very clear 1/8 beats right here
01:24:141 - extend kiai into heresure

[7K Insane]
00:56:927 - to 01:22:641 - better not to let's those kiai became like that, just merged them into one like other easier difficutlties does haha I just want to give a try and I believe it is fine(at least on my skin and setting, of course I enable all the effects). But this is not curial and if you really don't think it is OK I can surly delete those kiai.
01:08:766 (68766|4,68820|3,68873|2) - same reason as Hard diff Same as above
01:15:641 (75641|4,75712|2) - i only heard 1/4 here Same. This is definitely not 1/4
01:09:998 - two timings at same time Fixed

oky, only left these, the map is good, so i only gave some suggestion which is really need, good luck
call me back later after you done

Kuo Kyoka wrote:

okay, bn check

1234567

[Generals]
i have an improvement for your hitsound now, http://puu.sh/mmPcU/244cf13c0f.rar
delete old hitsound before add new hitsound
use new hitsound by hitsound copier

[victorica's 4K NM]
00:08:927 (8927|0) - move this to 3 sound more comfortable to play but also 00:08:712 (8712|0,8927|0) - are different pitch
00:21:570 (21570|2) - if you want to follow the sound, it should be start on 00:21:784 -
00:27:784 (27784|0,27784|1) - a single note in here is fine
00:40:212 (40212|0) - move to 2 for balance
00:48:784 (48784|1) - i think this one is fit with 3rd column imo
00:50:070 - suggestion: http://puu.sh/mmLRz/7c1d010980.png
00:53:712 (53712|2) - if you follow the ^, why not move this to 4 too? it's would works well for pitch flow: http://puu.sh/mmLSS/fae04b196a.jpg
00:56:927 (56927|0) - move to 2 for balance, and also pitch not same with them
01:22:641 (82641|0,83070|0) - move to 2 for balance
01:24:141 - extend kiai into here

[7K Normal]
00:44:820 (44820|2,44873|3,44927|4,45570|1,45641|2,45712|3,45784|4,46498|4,46570|5,46641|6) - mostly it's not recommended in Normal diff
00:56:498 - very loud sound in here, why not add 1-2 notes?
01:06:784 - seem you missing a note on 1
01:20:498 -

[victorica's 4K Hard]
00:14:284 (14284|2,14391|1,14498|0,14605|3,14712|2,14820|1) - Ctrl + H this one, for pitch going higher
00:48:784 (48784|1) - move to 3, same reason as before
01:09:677 (69677|1) - definitely in here is 1/6
01:23:391 (83391|2) - same here too
01:24:141 - extend kiai into here

[7K Hard]
00:21:927 (21927|2) - it's possible to hear 1/6 in here
00:49:212 - a strong cymbal here, don't you want to add one more note in here?
01:08:766 (68766|4,68820|5,68873|6) - no 1/8 in here, it's just higher sound of this section 01:08:498 - to 01:08:927 -
01:24:141 - extend kiai into here

[victorica's 4K Insane]
00:56:927 - to 01:22:641 - better not to let's those kiai became like that, just merged them into one like other easier difficutlties does
01:21:677 (81677|0,81784|0) - those are different pitch
01:24:141 - extend kiai into here
nice diff, as always
01:09:998 - two timings at same time

[7K Insane]
00:56:927 - to 01:22:641 - better not to let's those kiai became like that, just merged them into one like other easier difficutlties does
01:08:766 (68766|4,68820|3,68873|2) - same reason as Hard diff
01:15:641 (75641|4,75712|2) - i only heard 1/4 here
01:09:998 - two timings at same time

oky, only left these, the map is good, so i only gave some suggestion which is really need, good luck
call me back later after you done

Kuo Kyoka wrote:

few problems left:

On web, victorica's 4K NM somehow turned to easy icon, it need 0,01 star for normal icon (star rating ... )
as rule: N - H - I = rankable
E - H - I = unrankable

1) The star rating is fine in-game so this should be a forum bug and 2) according to the RC, "Easy or Normal can be skipped if the gap in the star rating spread allows it" so this is not a problem.

[7K Insane]
01:15:677 - okay, if you use 1/6 in here, the easier diffs must follow 1/6 too or be blank, inconsistent snapping (p/4767534) Fixed

and i'm still wondering about kiai time, it should be consistent to each other in all map
but i wil contact QAT soon if you still want to keep itI don't think there is such a rule/guideline but yeah please contact QAT and thank you for your double check!

Harbyter wrote:

7K insane

00:55:105 - you miss this 1/6 , same in the 4k I don't want to map that 1/6 since those 1/6 with the 1/4 layer will result in extremely weird(and ugly) patterns.


01:08:820 - i think this is another 1/6 instead of the 1/8 ,, if you notice here 01:15:677 - that has the same roll you put a 1/6 those two are completely different and it is perfectly fine to have different snap imo. I myself and a lot of modders went through that and (I suppose) everyone checked that carefully already so...

i think you should fix those snap in the other diff too


that's all

DE-CADE wrote:

|1|2|3|4|5|6|7|

[7K Insane]

00:13:320 - well the composer added snare sound here, seems u miss it ? maybe add note to 7

00:34:320 (34320|2) - i think u should delete this, since only this time u mapped additional snare

00:36:784 - Add note for kick pls, on col 1

00:37:641 - This too add note at 2
00:39:355 - Same, should be 4note here

[victorica's 4K Insane]

00:16:212 (16212|0,16212|2,16427|3) - These why should be different with 00:17:927 (17927|2,18141|0,18141|3) fix

00:38:284 (38284|2,38284|0,38498|2,38498|1,38712|3,38712|0) - Should add 1/4 note like this one 00:31:534 (31534|2,31748|1) i wanan express these

01:22:427 - add to 1 for kickok

[7K hard]

00:22:427 - I suggest add note for snare here http://puu.sh/naR03/ec0685f5a6.png

00:36:355 (36355|0) - Change to normal note

00:34:641 - Add note to 5

01:09:641 (69641|0) - I think stair more suits, move to 5
01:23:498 (83498|2) - ^ move to 6

[victorica's 4K Hard]

00:19:212 - what happen here, why it has less note dense add some pls`http://puu.sh/naRlE/c2bca53fa5.jpghmm one note for kick one note for piano

00:23:284 - At least add more note for the pianosame
00:24:998 - ^

00:44:820 - http://puu.sh/naRsU/12247c411c.jpg this one suits so wellsame with 7k hd

01:07:212 - Add note to 3 for kicki map vocal here

01:23:284 (83284|0,83355|1,83427|3,83498|1) - Change to stair pls 1234change to another

nah, NM already good

DE-CADE wrote:

|1|2|3|4|5|6|7|

[7K Insane]

00:13:320 - well the composer added snare sound here, seems u miss it ? maybe add note to 7 I am not really sure about this. I myself didn't hear anything here...

00:34:320 (34320|2) - i think u should delete this, since only this time u mapped additional snare oh that is not snare(I didn't follow percussion layer except basic bass/kick) that is the bibibi sound in the backgound

00:36:784 - Add note for kick pls, on col 1 oh my mistake. but add to 5 instead(pattern in this section is mirrored).

00:37:641 - This too add note at 2 already had
00:39:355 - Same, should be 4note here it has no piano/bibibi-sound so two notes are more than enough

[7K hard]

00:22:427 - I suggest add note for snare here http://puu.sh/naR03/ec0685f5a6.png nope too complicated

00:36:355 (36355|0) - Change to normal note yes

00:34:641 - Add note to 5 yes

01:09:641 (69641|0) - I think stair more suits, move to 5 nope I personally like tr more
01:23:498 (83498|2) - ^ move to 6 no problem with this one

nah, NM already good

richardfeder wrote:

1) The star rating is fine in-game so this should be a forum bug and 2) according to the RC, "Easy or Normal can be skipped if the gap in the star rating spread allows it" so this is not a problem.

DE-CADE wrote:

last thing,

richardfeder wrote:

1) The star rating is fine in-game so this should be a forum bug and 2) according to the RC, "Easy or Normal can be skipped if the gap in the star rating spread allows it" so this is not a problem.

unfortunate in game victorica's 4K Normal is 1.49 and it's not forum bug, just like KK said, 1.50-2.25 = Normal
i really suggest you to add couple of notes to avoid dq issues. because difficulty spread should be consecutive N-H-H not E-H-H

here's my suggest

[victorica's 4K Normal]

00:36:355 - Add to 4k
00:39:355 - http://puu.sh/ndX2F/4050d704ca.jpgself change
00:41:498 - http://puu.sh/ndWzG/b83fbd430e.jpg

same as above

victorica_db wrote:

牛逼啊

Spy wrote:

NBA，PC居然還活著

Feerum wrote:

So first of all in victorica's diff. 00:28:212 (28212|1,28427|3) - nice idea to fill the emptiness with vocal notes buuut i think the 2nd one is wrong snapped and should be at 00:28:480 - (used 1/16 Beat Snap divider) Yeah i know its just aroud 40~50ms and vocals are hard to catch corretctly and maybe i'm just nazi mod her but i really think you should let this check!

Feerum wrote:

Hellowww :3/ Hi

First of all grats to qualify! Thanks

Buuuuut i would like to ask about snapping here because i think there is something wrong sure
(Maybe i'm just stupid and cant hear it right harharhar) that's fine

anyways! let's be serious now!

[General Snap]
(I say here General because when i'm correct more than one diff has wrong snapping)

So first of all in victorica's diff. 00:28:212 (28212|1,28427|3) - nice idea to fill the emptiness with vocal notes buuut i think the 2nd one is wrong snapped and should be at 00:28:480 - (used 1/16 Beat Snap divider) Yeah i know its just aroud 40~50ms and vocals are hard to catch corretctly and maybe i'm just nazi mod her but i really think you should let this check! I can list a thousand of reasons to not put it on 1/16 snap(jk-ing lol). Well as hutu says, vocal notes cannot be 100% accurate. Furthermore, putting it on 1/16 snap not only ruins the sighting reading, since the LN is a little bit off, but also make it actually harder to hit accurately.
00:44:820 (44820|0,44873|1,44927|2) - I'm also kinda sure that here is something wrong in the snapping because the sound of the 2nd note is already played before you even press it. So..? Again piano note cannot be 100% accurate. Referring to my insane difficulty, you can actually find that the exactly snap for the piano is 1/8 and there are overall three piano notes here, with the one in the middle quite inaudible. I choose to strictly follow how it flows while victorica, considering players cannot really hear the one in the middle, goes for the more audible two notes. Yes you can definitely argue that they are off in editor with 25% playback, but I don't think it will make any difference for players.

00:45:570 (45570|0,45641|1,45712|2,45784|3) - uhh i'm unsure here. The 1st note gets already played but the guitar starts way later also it's not really clearly 1/6 i think 1/8 would fit here more. Same as above. I see no problem with it, especially while playing.

Feerum wrote:

[victorica's 4K Insane]
Additional to the Snapping thing i would like mention one/two things in this difficulty.

00:16:427 - I am about 99,98% sure you have a note missing here. Hihat + Piano like you have 00:18:141 (18141|3,18141|1) - and 00:19:855 (19855|0,19855|3) - just for consistency in your Pattern.
I guess you messy up with the layering. From my point of view, he is not following any percussion at all except the main beats. Here is the two and the only two layers we have:
1) Piano(Strong piano note -> LN, weaker one -> normal notes): 00:15:784 (15784|2,15998|1,16212|2,16427|3,17070|3,17498|2,17712|1,17927|2,18141|3,18141|1,18784|3,19212|2,19427|1,19641|2,19855|0,19855|3,20498|3,20927|2) -
2)Beats: 00:15:784 (15784|0,16212|0,16641|0,17070|0,17498|0,17927|0,18355|0,18784|0,19212|0) -
00:31:641 (31641|1,31748|1) - I don't think this Jack fit here in any way. It don't have same sound and don't really feels like a jack would make a lot of sense here. A good solution would be to move 00:31:748 (31748|1) - to 3, for example
00:34:641 (34641|0,34641|3,34641|2) - Uhh yeah. I think it would be much better when you already start here your 1/1 LN's. It makes sense because Mainbeat, vocals starts here and yeah D: And also you did it here 01:02:070 -
To be honest I kinda agree with you. Mini jack is valid, but not necessary here. But this is not a serious issue by any means and I respect his choice. He is much more experienced in making 4K charts than me, and, yeah, he must have his own reason to put a jack here.
Yeah thats all.
Would really like to read a reply to this.
Maybe i'm wrong but let this check please (:
We definitely check all feedback. Thank you for posting. (:
Good luck furthermore!

Blocko wrote:

00:21:784 - what the
This sounds like 1/5, but osu doesn't support that kind of snapping.
For this one, I'd put 00:21:784 - 175BPM with x0.8 SV and back to 00:22:641 - 140BPM right there so the snaps correlate to the violin.

Be careful about snapping the violin notes to 1/5, though, as there are other notes beside it.

ZZHBOY wrote:

唔 看了下维多的I
00:21:998 - 这里小提琴有点鸡巴 感觉要跟小提琴的话是不是应该这样? 00:21:998 (21998|0,22052|1,22105|2,22212|3,22212|0,22320|1,22373|2,22480|0,22534|1) - https://osu.ppy.sh/ss/4590794

[ S a k u r a ] wrote:

我晚上幫PC改改看mp3看可不可以

richardfeder wrote:

[ S a k u r a ] wrote:

我晚上幫PC改改看mp3看可不可以

就不能开这个先例啊 肯定不能因为snap就改mp3啊 讲道理不能因为他们羊癫疯我们也跟着吃电视

Blocko wrote:

Greetings.
I'm here from the "Request a DQ" thread to confirm that, on its current state, snapping errors do exist in this map.

I'd like to point out some things before pushing this to the Qualified section again.

General

Snapping errors:
There are some snapping errors contained in this map that inaccurately follow certain instruments in the song. They may not affect gameplay as much, but they're still errors nonetheless. So, I've compiled them all to one piece for convenience. Be aware that all of this applies to all difficulties in the map in some way.

00:21:784 - what the
This sounds like 1/5, but osu doesn't support that kind of snapping.
For this one, I'd put 00:21:784 - 175BPM with x0.8 SV and back to 00:22:641 - 140BPM right there so the snaps correlate to the violin.

Be careful about snapping the violin notes to 1/5, though, as there are other notes beside it.

No change.
I do understand the point that snapping should be as accurate as possible and it is your job to spot errors like this, but after careful consideration, I still prefer to keep the snap unchanged for the following reason:
1) The 1/5 snap you pointed out doesn't make any sense theoretically. 1/5 snap indeed exists, but very rare and very unlikely to be the case, especially for this song: a very standard J-POP with simple rhythm and construct.

2) Snap detecting is very subjective. While you do believe that the "exact" snap lies on 1/5, all the modders, I myself and BNs think the current 1/4&1/6 snap is already precise enough.

3) Even tho if the snap is really 1/5, it is impossible for players to identify the snap difference between 1/4&1/6 and the one 1/5 you pointed out. For them, all they could hear is a continuous, uniformed violin trill, but not a trill mixing with a 1/5 spike in the middle.

4) Adding an independent timing point right there will heavily affected gameplay experience. The extra bra line and the "slightly off note(? sorry I suck and English...)" definitely messy up the reading. One of the reason why we propose accurate snap is because players can hit the notes accurately with the music, but adding a timing point and snap a single note in a trill to a weird position really offers no benefit but results in more 200/100s.


00:44:766 - Snap errors here, these notes should start at 00:44:793 - and 00:44:846 - under 1/16 beat snap divisor.
Same as above. This could be a little bit off by whatever reasons, but I would like to stick to the mostly reasonable snap.

00:45:570 - Should be 1/8 here.
Yes you are right. Fixed
00:46:427 - Should be 1/4 here.
No I am very sure that this is 1/6.

01:08:712 - (only for 7K Insane) Essentially the same beats with 01:15:570 - , but their snaps conflict with each other. Snap this with 1/6 beat here so it's as consistent and accurate like on 01:15:570 - .
Sure thing

Timing and Offset:
It may just be me, but the map is at least 2 ms off from what I'm hearing. Ugh this is like a "tick rate 2 fits more" suggestion. Keybro can have various input delay up to 5ms or even more, monitor, audio output device and many have. Even the local offset setting has a minimum interval of +/-5ms, and offset itself is a very subjective thing. I don't know how you catch this, but please allow me to remain the offset unchanged...
01:08:820 - (on Insane difficulties) This is an unnecessary timing point that doesn't change any elements in the map, so it'd be better to get rid of it.
deleted

Be sure to apply the mod first before applying any timing/offset changes!

One other thing. The SVs at the Insane difficulties aren't normalized, so it might mess up reading for other players. I'd highly recommend that you replace x0.3 with x0.5 so the gameplay scrolling is fully normalized and easier to read for other players.
Or if you'd really like to stick to using x0.3, replace x1.5 with x1.7 for a normalized scrolling speed and easier readability. The jumps will be a bit harsher, though, but it should be pretty manageable.

As for victorica's 4K Insane, try to stick to using x0.5 and x1.5 SVs or x0.3 and x1.7 SVs and be consistent with using them so your map is easier to read and to play through.

All applied. Thanks for your suggestions on sv. They look better right now.
Good luck on your map!

richardfeder wrote:

00:44:766 - Snap errors here, these notes should start at 00:44:793 - and 00:44:846 - under 1/16 beat snap divisor.
Same as above. This could be a little bit off by whatever reasons, but I would like to stick to the mostly reasonable snap.

richardfeder wrote:

Thanks for modding! and providing the 1/5 meme

richardfeder wrote:

...the extra bra line...

richardfeder wrote:

and providing the 1/5 meme

Blocko wrote:

richardfeder wrote:

00:44:766 - Snap errors here, these notes should start at 00:44:793 - and 00:44:846 - under 1/16 beat snap divisor.
Same as above. This could be a little bit off by whatever reasons, but I would like to stick to the mostly reasonable snap.

In that case, 1/6th snap is the best way to go as it's really close with the piano.

richardfeder wrote:

Thanks for modding! and providing the 1/5 meme

No problem!
For the record, I asked someone to confirm if there really was 1/5th at that time. I really thought it was just me at first, but they went back and told me it is 1/5.
Now, I still believe that that particular snap is in 1/5 (or close to it), but since osu! doesn't support that kind of snapping, I guess it's better to leave the snap as it is to favor more on playability rather than being correct with it.

I'd say I was being a bit too strict there, so I'll be changing my ways of how I handle qualified maps and not be too strict about it.

Blocko wrote:

Just a couple more things.

7K Insane
00:07:373 - Should be x1.70 so the map scrolls like x1 but jumps like x0.3 and x1.7. Yes

01:08:927 - The x0.5 SVs should be x0.3 to normalize the scrolling speed. Yes

01:09:570 - On another note, I think you should make this part progress a bit more instead of jumping from x0.3 to x1.7. That way, it makes it easier for the player be able to predict when to hit the next chord. Consider this example:

I tried both but still decided to maintain current sv. Indeed jumping straight to x1.7/x0.3 is more sudden especially in the first try, but I think it works better and is pretty manageable after getting familiar with the song.

01:15:677 - This point doesn't change anything, so get rid of it. Yes

01:22:641 - Again, turn the x0.5 SVs to x0.3 for a normalized scrolling speed.Yes

01:23:284 - Pretty much the same suggestion like the pic above. Add some SV progression here for easier readability. ^
[]

victorica's 4K Insane
Richard is replying for vict since he is out of town dating right now
00:31:641 (31641|1,31748|1) - This is the only mini-jack in a difficulty that does not have any mini-jacks to begin with. It also looks pretty out of place apart from the rest of the patterns that follow the same instrument in this part, and it also doesn't have the same pitch to follow. Consider moving this note to 3 so this part does not look out of place from the others. move notes around instead. But do get rid of the mini-jack pattern.

01:09:570 - Same suggestion about SV progression on 7K Insane. ^

01:15:677 - Green point doesn't change any elements, so, remove it. Yes

01:23:284 - Same suggestion about SV progression on 7K Insane. ^

Call me back.

richardfeder wrote:

01:09:570 - On another note, I think you should make this part progress a bit more instead of jumping from x0.3 to x1.7. That way, it makes it easier for the player be able to predict when to hit the next chord. Consider this example:

I tried both but still decided to maintain current sv. Indeed jumping straight to x1.7/x0.3 is more sudden especially in the first try, but I think it works better and is pretty manageable after getting familiar with the song.

Blocko wrote:

richardfeder wrote:

01:09:570 - On another note, I think you should make this part progress a bit more instead of jumping from x0.3 to x1.7. That way, it makes it easier for the player be able to predict when to hit the next chord. Consider this example:

I tried both but still decided to maintain current sv. Indeed jumping straight to x1.7/x0.3 is more sudden especially in the first try, but I think it works better and is pretty manageable after getting familiar with the song.

Then, reduce their extremities by adding 01:09:570 - x0.5 and replacing 01:09:784 - with x1.5? (Same with 01:23:284 - ) Yes
Even if it works better, I'm still concerned about how big the gap is between those two points. It's a bit too sudden for the player to catch on, and it'll take a handful of tries for a player on this level to even hit it semi-accurately.

Harbyter wrote:

richard remember to fix the snap consistency from here 00:44:284 - with the 7k hard and 4k charts