[CSGA]Ar3sgice wrote:

后面的滑条好可怕233 +1

Kencho wrote:

[Normal]

1. 00:19:770 (1,2) - 我覺得互換更有節奏感和打擊感，先滑條再圓圈，因為00:19:770 - 這個位置的音並沒有00:20:378 - 來的重，放圓圈在前者沒後者那麼適合 没所谓吧。。。
   
   00:22:812 (1,2) - 和上面同理 ^
   
   00:31:937 (1,2) - 00:34:979 (1,2) - ^ ^
   
   01:55:283 (1,2) - 這個遮擋不知道有沒有事 改了。

[Hard]

1. L難度加了OD的話我建議這個改OD6 改了。
   
   
2. 00:57:792 (1,2) - 01:59:237 (1) - 弄個1/3折返填補中間漏掉的音，這樣可玩性也多點 不好。
   
   SPOILER

   

[Lunatic]

1. SampleSet改成Soft 不。
   
   
2. 現今OD7哪有pp，趕快上OD8-9 我不在乎pp啊你懂的。
   
   
3. 00:36:703 (2) - 按照你前面的排版，這個2不應該疊在後面的二連上面，應該放上一點做個blanket 给点变化来提示下个section嘛。
   
   SPOILER

   
   
   00:43:191 (6) - NC？00:44:002 (1) - 這個反而不該NC，然後00:44:712 (4) - NC 嗯，都对的，所有kiai的nc全都调了下。
   
   00:52:216 (1,2) - 00:53:736 (1,2) - 交換NC
   
   01:21:417 (2) - 01:22:938 (2) - 向上面說的，按照前面的排列我覺得不該疊在後面二連上面 这个无碍。
   
   01:30:542 (2) - ^ ^

美麗

moonlightleaf wrote:

[CSGA]Ar3sgice wrote:

后面的滑条好可怕233 +1

[Normal]

摸不出啥,挑刺好了

01:25:778 (3,1) - overlap 无视。

[Hard]

00:38:173 感觉加个圈 好 不好。

00:47:602 ^ ^

01:39:617 ^ ^

01:55:587 (3,4,5,6,7) - 我不喜欢这种打太鼓式的叠(3个以上非连打 哦。

后段加速 好不习惯 有点那啥不怎么适应滑条速度和DS的比例 嗯，应该没事，节奏不能再简单了。

[Lunatic]

4星+的话,可能hard要难一点 其实ex也是四星。

00:09:630 (1) - 我建议放上方 不。

00:15:410 (2) - 有点远啊 不远。

00:16:931 (2) - ^ ^

00:24:535 (2) - ^ 这种好多 不说了(嘛,是我打图差,这些接不到 其实一样。

00:38:629 (1,2,3) - 这种很难看 真好看的说。

01:15:739 (4) - 这里开始同hard so？

01:40:580 (4) - 这种图案不喜欢(主要原因太快 哦。

01:59:846 (2) - .......

嘛,加速段看不懂

Chaoslitz wrote:

HW啊我明天看,整天在趕功課;w;
(不要打我 你还好，还能来，之前一堆放我鸽子的，柑橘已经不能再爱。
M4M

[General]

1. 怎麼countdown,widescreen,letterbox還在 噗。。。fixed。
2. 一堆unsnap, AIMod是檢查不到,要用AutoMod: 其实我只是懒233.。。好吧以后这种东西我还是尽量自己查。。。把这个automod的玩意发个地址给我呗（
   

   Normal: 
   01:17:565 {77565} Slider edge
   01:20:607 {80607} Slider edge
   01:25:170 {85170} Slider edge
   01:26:691 {86691} Slider edge
   01:34:904 {94904} Slider edge
   
   Hard:
   01:11:887 {71887} Slider edge
   01:24:460 {84460} Slider edge
   
   Lunatic:
   01:16:247 {76247} Slider edge
   01:18:072 {78072} Slider edge
   01:19:593 {79593} Slider edge
   01:21:114 {81114} Slider edge

3. Normal沒用的綠線:
   00:38:629
   01:40:074
4. 感覺Combo 1的顏色不太合適,試試弄紫色點 不好。

[Normal]

1. 00:01:518 (1,1,1) - 我印象現在Easy/Normal不能有連續的轉盤,有dq的例子 姆。。。好吧。。。先改成了转盘接breaktime接转盘这样。
2. 00:25:245 (2,3) - Normal最好不要疊上啊 那就叠滑条上面嗯。。。
3. 01:43:115 (3) - 像這種做法比起第一個kiai更好啊,建議把兩個統一 不想统一。。。本来就是切成两部分的，这个是故意为之
4. 00:47:754 (1) - 00:52:317 (2) - ^ ^
5. 01:23:343 - 01:35:511 - 這兒突然空了節奏不連貫很奇怪...把01:23:648 (4) - 變成折返
6. 01:45:853 (4,1) - 也是不要疊上,可以把01:46:157 (1) 放回01:43:115 (3) - 的尾 等下。。。那样叠的更难吧？！？！？！？？！？！
7. 01:48:895 (4,1) - ^ ^
8. 01:57:412 (1,2) - 也是不要疊上啦,還有兩個滑條尾重疊了不好看 和上面一样。。。我觉得note叠滑条头比滑条尾叠note要简单N倍。。。当然，note的stack确实要难一点。

[Hard]

1. 00:31:024 (3,4) - 不疊上比較好 这。。。还是不改了，不如说其实无所谓吧233.。。
2. 嗯看過Hard的kiai我更加覺得Normal要統一kiai了,要不Normal第一個kiai比這還密啊 难道kiai不一样？？
3. 00:44:408 (1,2,1) - 頭尾都疊上不太好看 爷爷。。。
4. 01:50:720 (1) - 在Hard來說如果要這麼高sv的時候不要拆返好了,怕反應不到 这就是梗啊！！！

[Lunatic]

1. 以下是testplay
   
   testplay

   
2. 00:32:444 (3,4,5,6,1) - 這樣放很神啊qwq 爷爷。。。就随便那么一摆。。。233
3. 00:55:562 (1,2) - 這樣我覺得flow更好 flow好其实并不好，这里还是用逆flow来强调一下位置，实际上现在这么摆更好打。
   
   eg

   
4. 01:01:341 (1,2,3,4) - 01:02:542 (1,2) - 這兩個距離不應該一樣吧? 你说的对，可是我总觉得现在这么摆并没有什么问题。。。以及为何要跟ds噗。。。这种ds梗并不是没来由以及距离很小所以就这样吧hhh
5. 01:22:127 (5) - 01:34:295 (5) - ctrl+g? 事实证明现在这样更好，顺flow只会更难打。
6. 01:27:298 (1,2) - 把2放遠點,testplay時也按錯了很多次-.- 不改因为你看01:15:131 (1,2,3,4) - 这里你怎么按对了噗，其实这些都是为了那个2/3的跳渐大作准备的啦。。。

Tarrasky wrote:

no kds
Insane - there's no diff called Insane.
01:13:609 (1,2,3,4,5,6) - there's a pretty intense song here and the spacing is so meh the pattern fit the song well.
I think this not is good since the sliderspeed is extremily high 01:59:846 (2) -, you are trying to do something like strangeprogram TAG? this clearly will be sliderbreak, especially if it is with HR this is clearly a easy pattern to play.
01:22:127 (5) - 01:34:295 (5) - Ctrl + G? will improve the flow by 100% flow went into fluent ones and ruin the aiming 100%.
looks like made by a beginner mapper, with random spacing and forced overlaps thank you.

1. timing is tricky, thou it's checked by several people and seems like good to me as well.
2. generally this map is divided into two parts and... well idk if it really need to be done a map like that, but at arrange the ds patterns into a clear version, like 00:19:770 (1,2) - and 00:22:811 (1,2) - are following piano tracks if i'm not missed, is there any possibility that the ds is really following those beats' pitches? the similar problem appear in other parts of the diff, maybe arrange them into some general style people can accept easily.

ZZHBOY wrote:

lets see if this can be moved on.

[Lunatic]

1. timing is tricky, thou it's checked by several people and seems like good to me as well. asked some staffs and the recent setting is the final result.
2. generally this map is divided into two parts and... well idk if it really need to be done a map like that, but at arrange the ds patterns into a clear version, like 00:19:770 (1,2) - and 00:22:811 (1,2) - are following piano tracks if i'm not missed, is there any possibility that the ds is really following those beats' pitches? the similar problem appear in other parts of the diff, maybe arrange them into some general style people can accept easily.ofc you are right, some of those ds settings are wrong and fixed those ones. but also, some of those are just made on purpose, for the maps' very 1st spirit is more like just doing ds patterns. as for those two different parts, i think it can be explained by words i've mentioned before.

well, same things wanna mention here in hard and normal diffs.

others are fine to me. reply to this post, let me know what you are thinking.

call me back then

Haskorion wrote:

Wouldn't the proper romanization be "Doll Judgement"? Seems like an "E" is missing.

Hollow Wings wrote:

Haskorion wrote:

Wouldn't the proper romanization be "Doll Judgement"? Seems like an "E" is missing.

if you check the original game or the music album you will find that the original title of the song do is "Doll Judgment" without that "e", thou i think that may not change things to the word itself...

Kalibe wrote:

Grats HW !

Hollow Wings wrote:

Haskorion wrote:

Wouldn't the proper romanization be "Doll Judgement"? Seems like an "E" is missing.

if you check the original game or the music album you will find that the original title of the song do is "Doll Judgment" without that "e", thou i think that may not change things to the word itself...

ByBy13 wrote:

The source must be 東方Project since it is used nowadays for touhou songs.Touhou would be moved to tags as the romanisation of 東方

Bakari wrote:

It is a must, indeed. Unless you want a map with an incorrect source to be ranked. ok i see, if that's the rule.

While we are at it, can we talk about high velocity multipliers? Is there really a need to go as fast as 3,6 Slider Velocity (Current SV of1.8 multiplied by x2)? I do not get the logic behind that, provided that the first kiai section used much slower velocity multipliers.

what i wanna show is that the song can be mapped in 2 different style but showing same emotion to the song.

at slower part as previous ones, lower sv sliders following the brass track, i think you can get that.
at faster part as later ones, higher sv sliders almost following the brass track as well, sometimes supporting bass and piano track.
as a 5-beat-rhythm song it's just combined by 4/4 and 3/4 in a really special composing way, for the song's rhythm style is more like a swaying waltz, larger sv can be fit that as other waltz maps did as well. from the deep basic way for explaining in mapping field, the song is some kind of jazz style with old fashion, which contain more random and free spirit in it. also from a playing view, sv3.6 seems terrifying, but totally fine for playing and i'm sure lots of players can fc it. the map has broken no rc except that source issue thou, i'm sorry for that.

Natsu wrote:

spread between Hard and Lunatic is really huge tbh, I'd suggest adding another diff between them, or nerfing your actual lunatic diff.

Chaoslitz wrote:

So something would be perfect like a normal Hard diff -> a new Insane -> and Lunatic with high sv I guess?

Okoratu wrote:

if i was a player trying to go through your spread and would be able to do hard fairly decently at like 98% or something
and then started playing Lunatic it would wreck me so hard

i think especially in 01:15:130 - onwards spread between hard and insane is considerably broken
what do you think? you've played hard diff's later part, and you shall ready for the similar style in lunatic if you really did that. otherwise the hard diff is not that well impressed with it's spread and patterns, or maybe your playing skill is not ready for lunatic level maps imo.

IamKwaN wrote:

Also, would you mind providing an official reference for the romanisation of the title?

EDIT: I cannot find any official translated title for the song, so please stick with the normal romanisation, "Ningyou Saiban". ok, i'll ignore the additional msg and follow the game itself.

SPOILER

Also, for the artist, is it ZUN instead? if you have the screenshot of the eighth song from the game, please post it here! you've given the pic above (bottom right "U2"), ZUN is just original composer, not the prime arranger.

SPOILER

if you need original album's pic as evidence, here you are:

u2 arranged song 08

Bakari wrote:

So, you are ignoring music and creating an inconsistency in the map structure with no actual reason within the song itself? Why didn't you just create two independent difficulties as this would provide a good example of various mapping possibilities and let players play whatever way they prefer instead of forcing them to play both dtyles in one diff?

The thing is that even though this is playable, it is not suppoted by the song, I believe. There is absolutely nothing in the song that would suggest a radical change of the mapping style, making this map ignore the nature of the track.

how the song have not showed the notice... like that break in the middle of the song? if that's so called inconsistent then we should make all maps' all patterns in same consistent style, like if the pitch shifting of the melody is same then we need to do exact consistent pattern, otherwise it's just inconsistent.

Natsu wrote:

spread between Hard and Lunatic is really huge tbh, I'd suggest adding another diff between them, or nerfing your actual lunatic diff.

Looks like we have a good chance to split two different ways of mapping the Lunatic difficulty and get two independent diff, providing better variety of styles and fixing the spread!

bakari i know what you mean, but i'm telling that these two parts are all in same difficulty level but only in one diff. should i mix these to parts into same kiai to make them "consistent"? then i don't see differences between mine.

Yuii- wrote:

Remove "Scorpiour" from tags I guess. nope.

Natsu wrote:

spread between Hard and Lunatic is really huge tbh, I'd suggest adding another diff between them, or nerfing your actual lunatic diff. hard is not that easy tbh, and lunatic is not that lunatic.

Okoratu wrote:

ehh this suddenly blows up but LKs is tagged cuz he timed the map?

idk i don't think that checks out to be honest idk if this is good enough, after 3 bns' check. if you have additional advise it'll be welcomed anytime. to me the timing is fine thou.

Endaris wrote:

After reading the drama about the 2nd Kiai a bit...

Lunatic:

First of all I genuinely disagree with Bakari that you can't vary your style within one difficulty especially if the song itself is looped in some way.
The relatively high SV in the second part of the song looks good at some spots and not so good at others.
A main problem with the high SV in contrast to the first part is that the circle size is relatively small with CS5. High SV is mostly used to transmit a feeling via the swift cursormovement. Small sliderpaths have a very low tolerance and therefore the player cannot focus on going along with the song, instead he has to care about following the sliderpath accurately which is not cool. That's the biggest conflict between the two parts from my point of view. true.
Anyway, let's get to actual modding.

Personally I dislike this flowpattern as it favors looks over playability: 01:21:823 (4,5,6) - 01:33:990 (4,5,6) -
In comparison 01:20:302 (4,5,6) - plays a lot more smooth. If you want to stick to a circular shaped slider you could consider a flow like this: https://osu.ppy.sh/ss/4443608 after long time thinking i just keep this pattern as it is now. the flow just showing you control your cursor pausing aiming right, the flow is also set into an anti style to help you do that.

You're also inconsistent with your patterning regarding the spacing for the first three notes here: 01:15:131 (1,2,3) -
In this case they're very close together even though the sound on the second circle would suggest a bigger spacing in my mind like done here: 01:36:424 (1,2,3) -
But you also got spots where the spacing is low first and then very big to the 3 as here: 01:31:861 (1,2,3) -
I think you have to be more sharp and consistent about how these 3 circles should relate to each other as they represent the same characteristic pattern performed by piano+bass every single time. true. thou about the bass part, it's consistently increasing the pitch in its track, so i just follow that by distance shifting, which is not perfectly done in the current diff.
For comparison:
When this part appears for the first time ( 00:13:686 - till 00:38:021 - ) you're clearly paying a lot of attention to always have 1 -> 2 a big spacing and 2 -> 3 a lower one with the only slight exceptions being 00:25:853 (1,2,3) - and 00:28:895 (1,2,3) - that feel a bit odd due to how you have to turn directions but you're still clearly applying the concept. Consider changing these two a bit while you're at it.

01:26:690 (5,6,7) - 01:38:858 (5,6,7) - This type of pattern feels pretty uncomfortable to play too. I think it would play a lot more comfortably if the edges of the hitcircles would touch each other, right now this is something like a difficulty spike. There's also a good reason to reduce the spacing here imo:
Wood and piano are playing on 01:38:552 - 01:38:857 - 01:39:161 - so it would be natural to keep the emphasis on them as you're following them closely throughout this section. The drumpattern is more of an extra and it would be cool if 01:39:161 - got an extra boost of emphasis by another acceleration after slowing down before. good, maybe you really looked into the map deep. fixed the whole maps' patterns like these, arranged all of them into 2 consistent styles in each part.

Aside from these things the part from break till Kiai is pretty cool.

What really bugs me in the Kiai are some of these sliders:
01:40:580 (4) -
They contribute about nothing. Efficiently played they are kicksliders that don't lead anywhere. On a map with a conception that is entirely based on forcing a certain motion onto the player this is pretty bad. Again, the concept you use is stop-and-go, hence all the spaced stacks you use in other places to make the player stop. I would very much prefer to see most of these mapped as doubles as the fast SV gives them more attention than deserved in most places(or rather shifts the attention extremely towards the sliderstart over the sliderend for no particular reason). lol, then i have to say you missed the bass track, which this slider is following.

As far as I can see you also use a long and rather straight slider for the strong/long sound done by the wind instruments that play on every downbeat. Reference: 01:41:594 (2) - 01:46:157 (2) - 01:47:678 (2) - 01:50:720 (2) - 01:52:241 (2) - etc.
In this context 01:43:115 (2,3) - doesn't play well. Why? The curved slider at first doesn't even require the player to move the cursor at all, making this slider very weak compared to the others and on top of it he is even actively discouraged to follow the slider by the following circles as he has to move into a different direction to go for it. It pretty much breaks your concept of sliderusage.
01:49:199 (2,3) - this is similar but still a lot less bad as the next circle suggests following the slider at least a bit. actually if you are playing this map for more times, you'll find you will stack your aiming at sliders like this. why follow the slider ball and track? i exactly require players stack their aiming and listen to the rhythm carefully to decide when to move cursor to the next obj, and it works pretty well.

01:59:846 (2) - This is lame considering the SV. The sweetspot to just hold that slider down is extremely narrow and it is unreasonable to think that a player could properly follow through considering the direction turns. It's just extremely uncomfortable to play and doesn't do anything to make the song experienceable. The first thing that comes to my mind is replacing this entire section with a spinner:
01:59:846 (2,1,2,3,4,5,6,1) -
A spinner is not really less interesting than a repeatslider and it's a lead-up to the slowdown so it fits nicely. well, actually this is a really common pattern and appeared even 4 years ago, just take it easy, lots of players already be able to catch up with patterns like this.

That's it from my side.
Good luck with your map and thanks for mapping this really cool music

Karen wrote:

Please don't judge map's difficulty from SV or SR, get your tablet or mouse, play it.
Although the spread is a bit questionable exactly lol the spread is already complete by the current diffs.

deetz wrote:

shame about extra sco, that was a cool map lol i just did the least compromise to community, we can't move too much steps once, next time maybe :3

Krfawy wrote:

As long as the beginning of the Lunatic map and the first kiai time are legible with just AR8.6, it really hurts when people have to keep on reading the clusters like 01:21:215 (1,2,3,4,5,6,1) - here. I know, this is a rhythm game and the music is followed with doable patterns, but using AR8.8-9.0 would help people read the clusters because now they are very hardcore to read and follow if you have to strain that much especially when it's a huge difference when you don't really have to try to read that much in the Hard difficulty because the patterns are way clearer. for it's a cs5 map, ar8.6 is already enough to fit. long sliders even helped with the reading by giving free time after tapping tick.

And could you consider using a whistle on the very end or on the very start on those sliders in Normal and Hard diffs so it's easier to follow them when there is such a piano sound? You know, just making it more obvious and stressed while playing. 01:02:542 (1) - 02:03:988 (1) - ok, changed. but i just add a hs at the head. also changed 00:01:113 (1) -'s as well.

Nice Normal difficulty, I like it. o/

IamKwaN wrote:

Arranger instead of the composer as the artist? hmm..

except the original game's bgms a made by ZUN, all other touhou songs are made by various of arrangers (3L, amane, halozy, dark phoenix, whatever etc.)

if this is an issue, then from now on, all touhou maps should give "ZUN" as artist? that's not that appropriate imo...

how the song have not showed the notice... like that break in the middle of the song? if that's so called inconsistent then we should make all maps' all patterns in same consistent style, like if the pitch shifting of the melody is same then we need to do exact consistent pattern, otherwise it's just inconsistent.

bakari i know what you mean, but i'm telling that these two parts are all in same difficulty level but only in one diff. should i mix these to parts into same kiai to make them "consistent"? then i don't see differences between mine.

[ TPorter ] wrote:

Hello Hollow Wings.

x2 Velocity is not needed in Lunatic.
The song's intensity doesn't show the need for that speed of slider. i don't think so.

Lunatic:

01:26:690 (5,6) - Weirdly timed, doesn't fit, it seems this timing works better: http://puu.sh/n02x2/5f09a2fc18.jpg i think the current timing is fine. well if you are caring about the stuff, check out the new version.
01:40:580 (4) - This is a weird slider for this type of song, and it seems out of place, also the timing for it is really odd. The other kiai section is more filled up, and this one has random sudden stops in comparison.
01:57:412 (5) - Personal feel: This slider looks awkwardly placed.., doesn't have to be changed, but please consider.
01:59:846 (2) - Seems really lazily prolonged, would put something else in here to not have a unusually long reverse slider.

The other 2 difficulties seem fine, it's more or less nit-picky stuff with Lunatic.
If you don't want extra difficulties in between, consider lessening SV and other stuff in Lunatic to prevent extra difficuties to be added.
If you were to add a difficulty, it might have to be a Hyper of some sort.

Nice map Hollow Wings, good luck with the ranking!