thanks for moddingmonstrata wrote:
Flow IssuesFlow is basically inertia. It is the "path of least resistance". The flow you used here is not ideal because it is unnatural. Try and rework this particular pattern so that a better flow can be achieved, because good flow makes for less awkward, jerky, and unpredictable movements.
From this image you see what is "good flow". The flow of the pattern is outlined in black. The arrow shows where the flow would "lead" the player to go if there were no other objects. Having an angle of change is always good. This flow is smooth because the motion is natural. Angles change a bit, but you are heading in a direction that your flow is suggesting.
Lets look at something less ideal:
Here, Flow from 1 > 2 looks good! The Blue arrows show the range of possible locations that 3 could be located that would create "good flow". But instead, 3 is located in the far bottom-left of the screen. This flow isn't good because the direction of the patterns before slider 3 don't suggest such a drastic left-ward movement.Spacing IssueA spacing issue simply means that your spacing is not reflective of the time gap in between objects. Please alter the spacing so that visually, players are able to recognize which objects are 1/2 spaced and which ones are 1/1 spaced. Lets look at some examples if you are unsure!
As you see, visually, this pattern seems straight-forward. Everything looks evenly spaced visually. But wait! 3>4 is not actually 1/2 spaced in timeline, it's 1/1. But because the pattern is arranged like this, players are very likely to click 4 too early, causing them to miss. This is generally confusing to players, and is a spacing issue. You can remedy this by increasing the spacing between 3>4 to make it more obvious to players that there is a 1/1 gap instead of a normal 1/2 gap.
Something like this would work! Now it's obvious that there is more time in between 3 and 4.Emphasis IssueEmphasis Issue falls into two categories: - Emphasis (Less Emphasis), meaning you are over emphasizing a sound, or + Emphasis (More Emphasis), in which case you could add more emphasis!
- Emphasis: // Less EmphasisEmphasis basically means associating a louder and/or more noticeable sound in the music with some sort of additional difficulty. This is most commonly seen through increased spacing. The emphasis you have here doesn't fit well because you are creating a large jump onto a note that isn't very strong in the music. You are effectively emphasizing something that isn't actually there in the music. You can fix this by simply reducing the spacing between these two objects so that the objects that deserve emphasis can be better appreciated.
+ Emphasis // More EmphasisEmphasis basically means associating a louder and/or more noticeable sound in the music with some sort of additional difficulty. This is most commonly seen through increased spacing. The pattern you have here could use more emphasis because the beat highlighted is very noticeable in the music! Increase the spacing here because more emphasis on this note will fit the song better!.
Note that Emphasis can be created through flowbreaks too! This is most commonly seen with circle > slider patterns as you can see below. 2>3 definitely doesn't flow well, but this is an intentional flowbreak! Flowbreaks can create emphasis because just like jumps, the unnatural, jerky motion of a flow-break is another way to make a pattern more difficult, and therefore more noticeable to the player.Slider-end Rhythm IssueSlider-end Rhythm Issue simply means that the rhythm you've chosen in this particular section is not ideal. When you map a slider, you want the slider-head to be the strong part of the music. Why? Because players are going to be clicking/tapping on it. This is an "active" action. The slider-end is where the softer sound should go because you are simply releasing your key as you finish the slider-end and therefore, the action is "passive". What you have right now is a slider that has a really strong slider-end, but a weak slider-head. This is counter-intuitive! Solutions may simply include moving the slider in the timeline to better fit the music.NC (New Combo) Pattern IssuesThis is a general issue. Once you've mastered how to do NC's, you'll know them for life!
NC's should be placed on the downbeat because that is the start of a new measure in a song. Lets look at the timeline: The large white ticks are the downbeats. Always try to have a New combo there. For easier difficulties, you may choose to NC every second downbeat, but make sure your pattern is consistent! If you NC every downbeat, don't randomly switch to every two downbeats. Only do so if the music shifts (for example, during a calm section or a slow-down).
Essentially, you want every downbeat to be the beginning of a New Combo, as such:
Another reason to NC may be because you are using a different slider-velocity. NC'ing the slider gives the player a better visual cue that the slider may be faster, or slower, and because of your NC, they will have more time to prepare.
[Anxient's Hard]
00:01:619 (3,1) - Weird that you emphasize the downbeat but not places like 00:02:334 (2,3) - especially 3, since you even have a finish on it which kinda suggests its a point of emphasis. Applies elsewhere like 00:03:762 (2,3) - well i do that because the most emphasis in the song is. 3 doesnt have a finish?. as for the apply elsewhere, it just so happens that 2 doesnt have as much emphasis as 3.
00:05:369 (3,4) - Less Emphasis and Slider-end Rhythm Issues. - took me 5 minutes to nderstand what you meant by less emphasis. distanced 2 coz clap.
00:13:762 (1,2) - Ctrl+G rhythm is better imo. 00:14:119 - Making this clickable is better than the red tick after it. - applied
00:18:762 (4,1) - + Emphasis. - ctrl g'd and blanketed repeat in 4
00:58:405 (3,1) - + Emphasis. - fixed
00:59:476 (2,3) - - Emphasis, Why jump here man xP - i think im retarded or something. made it an antijump to increase emphasis for the slider.
01:10:905 (3,4) - Slider-end Rhythm Issue. - i think its fine..?
Damn i spent 20 minutes on this rip. - and i spent 5 minutes understanding one line of your mod. ufokenwotm8illrektyou
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Title:My Hero! Up to you!
TitleUnicode:My Hero! Up to you!
Artist:Nishizawa Hagumi
ArtistUnicode:歌手:西沢はぐみ
Creator:Xexxar
Version:Anxient's Hard
Source:世界を救うだけの簡単なお仕事
Tags:Sekai wo Sukuu Dake no Kantan na Oshigoto eroge visual novel opening op
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138,171,56976,2,0,P|137:120|115:77,1,82.5000025177003,0|8,3:0|0:3,0:0:0:0:
53,148,57334,2,0,P|39:186|40:227,1,82.5000025177003,10|0,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
62,315,57691,6,0,P|101:337|208:274,1,165.000005035401,12|8,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
273,236,58226,1,0,0:0:0:0:
410,295,58405,2,0,L|329:307,2,82.5000025177003,8|8|0,0:0|3:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
463,221,58941,6,0,P|436:144|369:99,1,165.000005035401,4|0,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
282,124,59476,1,8,0:0:0:0:
282,124,59655,1,0,0:0:0:0:
193,59,59834,2,0,L|188:162,1,82.5000025177003,4|0,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
103,204,60191,1,0,0:0:0:0:
98,121,60369,1,0,0:0:0:0:
186,227,60548,6,0,P|154:274|39:264,2,165.000005035401,4|10|8,0:0|0:0|0:3,0:0:0:0:
253,166,61441,1,8,0:3:0:0:
343,282,61619,2,0,L|261:270,1,82.5000025177003,10|0,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
335,191,61976,6,0,L|424:178,1,82.5000025177003,4|0,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
476,79,62334,1,10,0:0:0:0:
446,164,62512,1,0,0:0:0:0:
458,254,62691,2,0,P|462:288|445:344,1,82.5000025177003,0|8,3:0|0:3,0:0:0:0:
325,281,63048,1,10,0:0:0:0:
335,191,63226,1,8,0:3:0:0:
372,348,63405,6,0,P|299:355|241:260,1,165.000005035401,4|10,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
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236,52,65905,1,10,0:0:0:0:
316,10,66084,1,0,0:0:0:0:
466,32,66262,1,4,0:0:0:0:
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379,172,67512,1,12,0:3:0:0:
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200,262,68226,1,8,0:3:0:0:
263,132,68405,2,0,L|155:144,1,82.5000025177003,10|8,0:0|0:3,0:0:0:0:
103,92,68762,1,10,0:0:0:0:
12,84,68941,1,12,0:3:0:0:
100,184,69119,6,0,P|113:231|34:322,1,165.000005035401,4|10,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
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346,328,70548,5,12,0:0:0:0:
307,246,70726,1,8,0:0:0:0:
316,155,70905,2,0,L|323:56,1,82.5000025177003,0|12,0:2|0:3,0:0:0:0:
232,193,71262,2,0,P|181:204|132:189,1,82.5000025177003,0|8,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
96,126,71619,1,0,0:0:0:0:
61,210,71798,1,12,0:3:0:0:
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264,72,72334,1,10,0:0:0:0:
91,44,72512,1,8,0:3:0:0:
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61,210,73048,1,10,0:0:0:0:
181,257,73226,1,12,0:3:0:0:
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419,206,74119,2,0,P|428:245|421:286,1,82.5000025177003,10|8,0:0|0:3,0:0:0:0:
343,162,74476,1,10,0:0:0:0:
418,111,74654,1,12,0:3:0:0:
339,248,74834,6,0,L|254:243,1,82.5000025177003,12|8,0:0|0:3,0:0:0:0:
176,201,75191,1,10,0:0:0:0:
183,291,75369,1,8,0:3:0:0:
256,133,75548,1,14,0:0:0:0:
95,149,75726,1,10,0:3:0:0:
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95,149,75905,1,8,0:0:0:0:
184,319,76084,1,14,0:0:0:0:
256,192,76183,12,0,77676,3:0:0:0:
150,352,78032,5,8,3:0:0:0:
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191,39,79103,6,0,L|288:34,1,75,4|0,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
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277,197,79639,2,0,P|272:145|286:101,1,75,2|0,0:2|0:0,0:0:0:0:
357,162,79996,1,8,0:0:0:0:
345,251,80175,1,0,3:0:0:0:
442,319,80353,6,0,P|371:295|298:309,1,150,8|0,0:3|0:0,0:0:0:0:
215,345,80889,1,0,0:0:0:0:
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310,151,82317,1,8,0:0:0:0:
285,237,82496,1,0,0:0:0:0:
345,126,82675,2,0,L|418:138,1,75,8|0,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
255,63,83210,6,0,P|212:51|112:87,1,150,12|8,0:0|0:3,0:0:0:0:
80,167,83746,2,0,P|39:135|24:89,1,75,8|0,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
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251,288,84460,2,0,L|244:214,1,75,8|8,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
168,317,84817,6,0,P|196:355|318:348,1,150,4|8,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
362,309,85353,2,0,L|445:301,1,75,4|0,0:0|3:0,0:0:0:0:
391,223,85710,1,8,0:0:0:0:
384,132,85889,1,0,0:0:0:0:
296,152,86067,6,0,L|221:144,1,75,12|8,0:1|0:0,0:0:0:0:
141,101,86425,1,0,0:0:0:0:
67,152,86603,2,0,P|50:101|65:55,1,75,0|8,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
143,194,86960,2,0,L|133:289,1,75,4|0,0:1|0:0,0:0:0:0:
180,346,87317,2,0,P|139:357|96:350,1,75,8|0,0:3|0:0,0:0:0:0:
225,268,87675,6,0,L|324:284,1,75,4|8,0:0|0:3,0:0:0:0:
371,333,88032,1,0,0:0:0:0:
455,231,88210,2,0,L|380:242,1,75,4|8,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
303,196,88567,2,0,L|228:184,1,75,0|0,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
380,159,88925,6,0,P|400:117|360:23,1,150,12|8,0:0|0:3,0:0:0:0:
312,99,89460,2,0,L|237:87,1,75,8|0,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
157,128,89817,2,0,L|82:139,2,75,4|0|0,0:0|0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
228,184,90353,1,0,0:0:0:0:
201,307,90532,6,0,L|126:296,2,75,12|12|0,0:3|0:3|0:0,0:0:0:0:
277,259,91067,2,0,P|321:242|365:247,1,75,12|12,0:3|0:1,0:0:0:0:
430,280,91425,1,0,0:0:0:0:
418,191,91603,2,0,L|407:106,1,75,8|8,0:3|0:3,0:0:0:0:
328,75,91960,6,0,L|339:-10,2,75,12|8|0,0:3|0:3|0:0,0:0:0:0:
256,130,92496,1,8,0:3:0:0:
163,46,92675,2,0,L|247:41,1,75,12|0,0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
168,131,93032,2,0,L|93:126,1,75,8|8,0:3|0:3,0:0:0:0:
256,130,93389,6,0,P|270:164|271:202,1,75,12|12,0:3|0:3,0:0:0:0:
345,252,93746,1,0,0:0:0:0:
417,198,93925,2,0,L|494:193,2,75,8|12|0,0:3|0:0|0:0,0:0:0:0:
345,252,94460,1,8,0:3:0:0:
376,110,94639,1,12,0:0:0:0:
dank u monstrataetomonstrata wrote:
Flow IssuesFlow is basically inertia. It is the "path of least resistance". The flow you used here is not ideal because it is unnatural. Try and rework this particular pattern so that a better flow can be achieved, because good flow makes for less awkward, jerky, and unpredictable movements.
From this image you see what is "good flow". The flow of the pattern is outlined in black. The arrow shows where the flow would "lead" the player to go if there were no other objects. Having an angle of change is always good. This flow is smooth because the motion is natural. Angles change a bit, but you are heading in a direction that your flow is suggesting.
Lets look at something less ideal:
Here, Flow from 1 > 2 looks good! The Blue arrows show the range of possible locations that 3 could be located that would create "good flow". But instead, 3 is located in the far bottom-left of the screen. This flow isn't good because the direction of the patterns before slider 3 don't suggest such a drastic left-ward movement.Spacing IssueA spacing issue simply means that your spacing is not reflective of the time gap in between objects. Please alter the spacing so that visually, players are able to recognize which objects are 1/2 spaced and which ones are 1/1 spaced. Lets look at some examples if you are unsure!
As you see, visually, this pattern seems straight-forward. Everything looks evenly spaced visually. But wait! 3>4 is not actually 1/2 spaced in timeline, it's 1/1. But because the pattern is arranged like this, players are very likely to click 4 too early, causing them to miss. This is generally confusing to players, and is a spacing issue. You can remedy this by increasing the spacing between 3>4 to make it more obvious to players that there is a 1/1 gap instead of a normal 1/2 gap.
Something like this would work! Now it's obvious that there is more time in between 3 and 4.Emphasis IssueEmphasis Issue falls into two categories: - Emphasis (Less Emphasis), meaning you are over emphasizing a sound, or + Emphasis (More Emphasis), in which case you could add more emphasis!
- Emphasis: // Less EmphasisEmphasis basically means associating a louder and/or more noticeable sound in the music with some sort of additional difficulty. This is most commonly seen through increased spacing. The emphasis you have here doesn't fit well because you are creating a large jump onto a note that isn't very strong in the music. You are effectively emphasizing something that isn't actually there in the music. You can fix this by simply reducing the spacing between these two objects so that the objects that deserve emphasis can be better appreciated.
+ Emphasis // More EmphasisEmphasis basically means associating a louder and/or more noticeable sound in the music with some sort of additional difficulty. This is most commonly seen through increased spacing. The pattern you have here could use more emphasis because the beat highlighted is very noticeable in the music! Increase the spacing here because more emphasis on this note will fit the song better!.
Note that Emphasis can be created through flowbreaks too! This is most commonly seen with circle > slider patterns as you can see below. 2>3 definitely doesn't flow well, but this is an intentional flowbreak! Flowbreaks can create emphasis because just like jumps, the unnatural, jerky motion of a flow-break is another way to make a pattern more difficult, and therefore more noticeable to the player.Slider-end Rhythm IssueSlider-end Rhythm Issue simply means that the rhythm you've chosen in this particular section is not ideal. When you map a slider, you want the slider-head to be the strong part of the music. Why? Because players are going to be clicking/tapping on it. This is an "active" action. The slider-end is where the softer sound should go because you are simply releasing your key as you finish the slider-end and therefore, the action is "passive". What you have right now is a slider that has a really strong slider-end, but a weak slider-head. This is counter-intuitive! Solutions may simply include moving the slider in the timeline to better fit the music.NC (New Combo) Pattern IssuesThis is a general issue. Once you've mastered how to do NC's, you'll know them for life!
NC's should be placed on the downbeat because that is the start of a new measure in a song. Lets look at the timeline: The large white ticks are the downbeats. Always try to have a New combo there. For easier difficulties, you may choose to NC every second downbeat, but make sure your pattern is consistent! If you NC every downbeat, don't randomly switch to every two downbeats. Only do so if the music shifts (for example, during a calm section or a slow-down).
Essentially, you want every downbeat to be the beginning of a New Combo, as such:
Another reason to NC may be because you are using a different slider-velocity. NC'ing the slider gives the player a better visual cue that the slider may be faster, or slower, and because of your NC, they will have more time to prepare.
[My Hero]
00:01:797 (2,1) - This jump makes 00:02:334 (2,3) - seem really weak. Also 00:02:512 (3) - finish on head is cool. Applied finish, but I don't believe the previous jump really affects the play of the following slider that negatively.
00:11:084 (3,1) - 1/2 slider instead? 1 is barely noticeable xd I think this plays fine as is, 1 is noticable enough.
00:14:476 (5) - Slider-end Rhythm Issue. this is just wrong, the begining is way more powerful than the end.
00:15:191 (3,4) - Less Emphasis Issue. fixed
00:58:405 (5,6) - ^ i think this is fine as is, 4, 5 are equal distant compared to 5 and 6 and going to 7 feels appropriate and looks clean.
01:07:512 (4,1) - Visually doesn't flow well because of how 1 is shaped. Rotate like -45 degrees or something and reblanket. applied as best i could
01:15:548 (1,2) - Less Emphasis Issue. I actually think this is fine as not only is there drum emphasis, but each jump correlates with the singer. I will leave it for now.
01:21:960 (1,2,3,4) - Flow Issue. this plays fine and I have done similar patterns before.
[Insane]
00:02:512 (3) - Finish on head yea applied
00:06:619 (2,3,4) - Flow Issue. modified
01:10:905 (2) - Slider-end Rhythm applied
01:15:905 (4,1) - More Emphasis applied but very lightly.
[Advanced]
00:07:691 (1,2,3) - thx looks alot better
00:20:191 (2,3) - Sliderend rhythm xd attempted to fix.
01:21:960 (1) - Add a repeat. shift 2 and 3 down 1/2 a beat. More interesting rhythm than your 1/2 spam tbh xD i like the pause later for emphasis. I'll leave this for now
01:34:282 - obvious beat here. why not make 2 a slider instead. I like the emphasis on the two major down beats in this pattern
[Normal]
00:06:619 (3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3) - Generally. Try and stay away from using too many 1/2 sliders. Instead go for simpler rhythms. this section is really hard to try to describe in a low difficulty beatmap because the claps are inconsistent and alot of the beat is 1/2 red tick. I'm going to leave it how it is for now because it feel like it's more natural to play this way rather than an over simplified beat.
00:10:191 (1) - Slider-end Rhythm Issue. fixed
00:10:191 (1,2,3) - Could be k
Try experimenting with more extended-slider rhythms like the above, where you use a 1/1 slider, followed by a 1/2 break, and the red tick begins another slider. useful for places like : 00:56:976 (4,1,2) - 00:57:691 - Begins a 1/1 slider, another 1/1 slider on 00:58:226 - . etc... cleaned this up a little but idk probably could be better, will keep eye on this spot
Damn i spent 20 minutes on this rip.
DDDD best broccoly everBroccoly wrote:
pity starred
good map
kuaib wrote:
k
quality mod kappa xd
hero
00:02:869 (4) - curve this a bit more to make it look more like 00:02:512 (3) - (better aesthetically) applied
00:20:548 (1) - i think its better just to make this a normal curve like 00:21:084 (3) - applied
00:46:441 (1,1) - i think it wouldn't hut to use them extended sliders here o/ ur preference though since back trackin is the play style here shorter is fine
01:01:084 (2,3,4) - uhh space these further from the slider, looks bad atm lol applied
01:02:512 (3,1) - maybe copy pasta these for better structure? cleaned visually
01:11:262 (5) - nc cuz u change direction here? thx, was too long of combo
00:56:262 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7) - u can reduce the spacing here to help contrast/emphasize 00:57:691 - this part
hm very few patterns can be polished up a bit but in general good concepts and good patterns idk i think this is fine
insane
00:23:405 (2,2) - copy pasta o/? applied
01:31:067 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - u need another nc somewhere between here i think. applied
hard
00:23:941 (3,4) - this spacing is a bit weird? i thought it was 1/1 gap because i usually manual stack those xD. i think u can just stack it normally applied
01:15:548 (4) - possible nc o/ applied
01:20:353 - idk if this is intentional but it seems to be missing that big crash sound or at least it sounds weird without it lol applied
advanced
i think this diff is fine. applied
normal
00:44:119 (4,1) - touching hp bar lel applied
leading into the kiai ur consistency in rhythm gets thrown off a bit but i don't think it's too problematic
gracefu wrote:
Insane
Intro and verses are pretty nice and consistent
00:58:584 (5) - I think this could use more emphasis adjusted as this way it looks more consistent with previous pattern
01:07:691 (1) - maybe ctrl g this for emphasis? kills 2's emphasis so no
01:09:119 (1) - ditto @ emphasis, but don't ctrl g this please XD adjusted slightly
01:25:710 (3) - Maybe move this left a little so the (1) is more emphasised? at the moment the (3) is more emphasised than the (1) applied
Cerulean Veyron wrote:
placeholderrrrr[> General <][> Normal <]
- - You have inconsistency with the video's offset, Anxient's Hard and My Hero! diffs aren't adjusted to -290, unlike any other diffs. So... Here: this was fixed when I changed to .avi so we good
Video offsetNormal, Advanced, and Insane:
Anxient's Hard and My Hero!:- - You have two of your custom hitsounds have a possible delay going >5ms: with your normal-hitclap and normal-hitfinish. You could try cutting them via Audacity: i'll just have you send me the edited version later cause i dont have it installed atm
- - Well, that's all I should say~
[> Advanced <]
- 00:11:798 - This tick is supposed to be clickable, the beat here is pretty dominant. So, instead of a repeatable slider, remove the repeat arrow and add a circle there. applied
- 00:13:226 - You're probably not using this inherited point, Why not delete it, then? applied
- 00:34:119 (2,3) - Optional Objective: That's WAAAAY high up there, touching the HP bar... Well, maybe it's my skin idk. I may suggest moving them down for visibility on the playfield. But if you had sth else to tell for this, you can keep this for that. applied
- 00:36:976 (2) - Add a clap on the slider's tail (additions: normal), It's clear that you missed it here llool applied
- 00:48:405 - Same as 00:13:226 - applied
- 00:50:548 (3) - Having a finish hitsound here doesn't sound right with the music track. After all, there wasn't a crash or a ride samples on that part, so I guess removing it will make emphasis with both song and this object very balanced. applied
- 00:56:262 (3) - Probably the same as above~ applied
- 01:01:976 (3) - Nyeh, there are more of those... Didn't want to repeat the same thing just to boost up the mod size, so yeah lol. ????? what is problem
- 01:16:084 - What's the use of putting a kiai time when there's no notes on this part at all? I prefer not doing this for avoiding the burst of brightness on gameplay. I wanted the fountain effect.
- - Idk why you do many SV changes in this diff. But the spacing looks pretty right but extended a little on kiai times, so idk if it's really intentional or nyeh. Doesn't seem noticeable on gameplay, but if only you focus a lot more on slider velocity It would be. It's really polished tbh, so uhh GJ! tbh i used the same sv changes that my main difficulty uses cause i thought they'd feel right
[> Anxient's Hard <]
- -
soon- - I suggest CS3.5 for this diff for difficulty spread setting arrangements. applied
- 00:08:226 (2,3) - Optional objective: One of the ridiculous mods I've mentioned, you can recorrect this blanket or not. Your choice. applied or atleast i tried to
- 00:16:262 (1) - I prefer a 1/1 slider for this instead of a repeatable 1/2 one. Can also sound better in terms of rhythm and object's timeline. idk i feel like this is more work than its worth given that it would require rearranging alot, I think its fine the way it is
- 00:37:512 (5) - Probably the same as above. Pretty much for the vocals for sure. i do like this the way it is tbh.
- 00:54:655 (1) - Well, this is almost the same reason, but quite different If I can say. Maybe a better rhythm should do sth here, stressing the downbeat while starting a slider on the long tick can be suitable here: applied
- 00:55:905 (4) - Ehh, this slider is REALLY close to be offscreen, which leads to unrankability. Moving it up will suffice it's state~ applied
- - Nice one! Nothing to say here but these~
- - Hi anxient, tell me why am i doing this yolo mod 4 u.
- 00:00:548 (1) - This sliderslide sounds very, VERY, VERRRY irritating... when only the small drum-only hits for the Intro. Probably yes, get rid of it. applied, my bad i just didnt make that slider slide a soft
- 00:02:155 - Pretty much unused inherited point. So mehh, delete this unnecessary green line. applied
- 00:08:762 (5) - Afaik, this sounds really inaudible. Using soft sampleset here while the song takes too much emphasis... well yeah, inaudible. So i suggest changing the sampleset to Auto, or maybe Normal. applied, set it to drum, this was an old relic of previous hitsounding
- 00:13:762 (1) - Swap the normal-clap on this slider, alike on head... Did you Ctrl + G'd here without hearing the hitsounds? applied, anxient pls
- 00:14:119 (2) - Add clap on slider tail, for percussion ofc. applied
- 00:37:155 (3,4,1) - Well, as usual... Swapping jumps in-between these notes are much preferred. If it's a new track you ask, yes.
- - There are more of those, like 00:52:869 (3,4,1) - or 00:57:334 (4,1) - . Well.. many~ So I wouldn't waste my time mentioning all of them. these are used to enhance the emphasis on the note at the end, this is intentional choice that anxient made that allows for a bit of variety in the map, I will not change this.
Still, pH
Cerulean Veyron wrote:
2nd mod lel, no kds[> Insane <][> My Hero! <]
- 00:06:084 (1,2,3,4) - The spacings here looked quite odd, compared to 00:09:476 (3,4,5,6) - . It was like 1.3x spacing, then goes up to 1.5x where only the song's density went like... down. You know, "down".. it feels to me that such a change in distance is very small difference. I simply went with this design based off visual choice and pattern design. Unless you feel something is wrong with the pattern it really doesnt need changed.
- 00:14:655 (1,2,3) - Well, this. I didn't really like it, even when it come to my favorite back-and-forth flows ;n; If you could change it into a possible triangle formation or sth else, it would be more interesting for an Insane diff like this one. i dont really see how i could change this into a triangle given that i have 4 notes (including the sliders end. I think this plays fine as is so.
- 00:21:441 (3,1) - I didn't feel right when this is going to be played on gameplay. It shifts off the cursor movement and might ruin it's flowing. Best you'd try to Ctrl + G on slider (1), or curve slider (3) on the opposite side from it's current. That'd (at least) correct the structure for sure. applied, feels much better now
- 00:23:226 (1,1) - Are these NCs necessary? Best you'd just add one NC on 00:23:405 (2) - and delete the rest.
- 00:25:548 (1,1) - Same as above.
- 00:48:762 (3,4,5,6) - Afaik, this part isn't a five-circles streaming. From what I can hear on the drums, it's just a triplet before the chrous. So yeah, how about removing 00:48:851 (4) - ? I can 100% confirm there is definitely a note on 4.
- 00:51:798 (1,2) - The way how you ignore downbeat here feels unnatural. According to the song's rhythm it does not fit well. Maybe Ctrl + G this for a matching rhythm on the timeline, which would follow both vocal and instruments more correctly. Watch out for spacing, NC, and hitsound ;p applied
- 00:57:512 (1,2) - Same tbh applied
- 01:34:639 (2) - Forgot to change this to Additions: Normal? already caught, just hadnt uploaded, thx
- - Well mapped, Just spotted a few things like rhythm and some patterns. Quite good anyways.
- 00:16:262 (1,2) - A passive stack here doesn't even follow this track right, while the song takes too much emphasis ofc... since it's a new track overall. So maybe unstacking these two and continuing the singletapping throughout of it. the stack here is because the second note doesnt have much emphasis behind it, theres also no vocals on that note. This allows for more emphasis on 3 because you go from a stopped note to a jump. I will keep this for this reason.
- 00:44:476 (8,9,1,2) - You could try a bit more different spacing, because this doesn't even looked like a shape or some pattern or anything. Might look random to me, so try a distance spacing of 2.2x here and redo the not-so-square formation. 00:43:941 (4,7,9) - these 3 notes are desined to be equal distance from eachother, this allows for a visually consistent design, the jump from 9 to 1 is the same distance as 8 to 9 so thats why I did that. if this okay now after explaining I'll leave it.
- 01:11:976 - Are you REALLY serious about spamming NCs here?! HP6 almost looked a bit low, so how about removing them on 2/1 and 3/4 (2nd and 4th) ticks to avoid overdraining? actually this was a remnant of an old pattern, good catch.
- - Probably was a great diff. Just a few issues found, and that NC on the kiai times are quite bugging me tbh. probably? rip
Let me check this again before bubble kthnx
Mp3 Quality is being addressed. As for spread, I assume gap between my hero and insane is the issue?Wafu wrote:
I have some concerns about the map. I'll raise them by editing this post. They're about mp3 quality (will provide new one), spread and others.
Makyu wrote:
You asked me to check the extra, here we go.
[Extra]General
- What do you think about renaming this to "Another". I think this diff doesn't play as Extra at all.
Playability
- I think some of the strams are better to play them stacked: 00:07:334 (6,7,8,9) - 01:24:460 (7,8,9,10) - I like the design and motion of these as is.
- This is more a personal opinion: this kind of overmapping: 00:01:977 (1,2) - doesn't really well, but as I said it's just my opinion. plays well the pattern i'm going for
- what do you think about staking this two notes: 00:47:155 (1,1) - it feels better sinces it emphazises the start of the kiai way better, and gives a plus to the visual appeal applied
- 01:19:996 (3) - This slider is really wreid to play, my suggestion. Looks and plays better in my opinion and fits better with your next pattern. I like it, applied.
Presentation
I do a straight line here to imply that the direction is to the left, but in reality the song flops to the right, making it curve would make it lose this feel.
- The map is really good made, but it feels a bit disorganized, for exapme, some of the slider can be improved, adding more consistency to them and not changing the shape of all: 00:10:548 (1,3) - this two are the one I will point, what do you thing about this. You can obviusly do it better with a blanket. I'm content with this pattern as is.
- what do you think about changing this: 01:13:405 (1) - slider and keep following the previous pattern you have: like this applied
- What do you think about changing the shape of this: 01:22:675 (4) - slider into this
Nazi
i think i applied this? im not sure what the second note was about?
- Stack this well: 00:49:119 (1,2) - 00:12:869 (2) -
Combos
- Remove this NC 00:01:619 - it is not necesary since this 00:01:440 - NC emphasize well the start first nc dictates change to 1/2 second dictates start in song's guitar, looks good this way.
- This NC is not necesary 00:46:798 - I want to accentuate this section with full nc. I think it's fine, will keep eye on it
Sounds
- I think you are overusing the finish hitsound in this diff, I didn't checket the other diffs, but it's kind of annoyng to hear a finish hitsound so often, use them when the song emphasizes a change on the rhythm or when the drummer uses them, or if you think they all are really necesary try to lowe the volume of the finish by a bit. I'll see if there are areas in which this can be improved. or the option of lowering volume might be applied.
Overall
- I liked this when I played, it was fun to play, the diffs looks a bit messy but I think it's your style I pointed one of the posible solutions to this problem that's up to you, the big problem with this is the overuse of the finish hitsound. Good job with this. thx bae
Fort wrote:
wait me, dont too fast rank this map. atleast i want to mod this thing[General]
- 01:16:084 - the kiai time in here really blank and probably you need to turn of kiai section for this part a bit :(? I want the fountain effect on the last note, and I might as well carry it through to the end. of that section.
- just it
[Extra]
- i think AR9 is okay for this map, because you put fullscreen jumps on last kiai end, it probably make sense I did 8.9 cause insane is 8.6 and my hero! is 9.2, PROGRESSION!
- 00:36:976 (4,5) - this stack a little bit tricky in first time, well i guess you need to make that notes didnt go stacked because 00:37:334 (6,7,8) - probably can be good if you put in 00:37:155 yeah i didnt like this part too, thanks! I figured out a better pattern
- the rest is good to go
[my Hero]
- 01:15:726 (2,3,4,1) - tbh this thing needs quite good reflexes to hit this thing, well stacked triplets makes your movement got slower than doing fullscreen jumps, so i think 01:16:084 (1) - this notes can be placed at 256|192 to make everything stable. probably alot people will got miss at there applied for now, will get some testplays.
- 01:25:175 (2,3) - i think stack can be good option for this nah I like the motion of play here.
- 01:33:210 (4,1) - a bit overlapped, move 1 to up or down a little bit applied i think
- the rest diff is nice, good luck with rank this map
edit:
and one thing on my hero
00:36:262 (1) - this slider hit my HP bar, probably move down a bit adjusted slightly.
Xexxar wrote:
It should be no surprise that there are 318 jumps in this section as I did not map utilizing distance snap at all. 318 Jumps when I have 374 objects basically implies this. Simply put, this difficulties progression is fine and natural in the spread because there's a lot more logic in my maps than simply throwing circles down. What I mean is, this map is not distance snapped to begin with, so this number is misleading. If we take a look in the map's difficulty using Tom's old calculator, we see this:
What I want to point my attention to is the averages. In both difficulties, the difference in speed challenge is very small and as such is a natural continuation of the hard difficulty. The only thing that sets the map's difficulty apart is how the map's jumps and climax are reached. Basically, insane is a natural increase on the difficulty outside of the chorus's ultimatum. Not all spread's are going to be pishifat spreads anyway, so I believe this a suitable jump in difficulty.
While I agree that with the number not being accurate, not even Hard's number was accurate. But the point is even those inconsistencies are already making a difficulty gap. There are still too many techniques Hard player will get extremely confused by, +streams, +jumps, +note density - You cannot add all at once, that simply doesn't work in order to make a good spread.
Allow me to point out several things.
One: Intensity is relative. a persons overall experience and enthusiasm in a song is determined by they're appreciation and ability to get absorbed in the music. It's true that yes, for all songs, there is overarching level of what is appropriate intensity in a beatmap and what is not. However, for this song, constant drum beat in the background which had previous been on 2/1 moves to a 1/1 during it's most intense section. Now, I realize that if you simply look at the spacing its seems excessive, accept I have chosen to create My Hero! with a large level of spacing throughout, and this ultimatum is built to gradually gain intensity and enjoyment.
Yes, the song gets a little more intense in the part, but not that much to have fullscreen jumps. The map has jumps even in its calm part, which makes it even less sensible. I don't say this would be bad if the song was different and getting progressively more intense, but it is getting intense suddenly, while your map is increasing and increasing. The thing that is overdone is the fact that you basically have intensive map already, almost without some chill part, where opportunity was given, but gets only more intense. I just think that the mapset should stop on Extra difficulty (if not on Insane). Obviously, we want some intense maps and maps that are more enjoyable, but I still think the song has some cap where appropriate things end and it was exceeded in this case.
Two: This is 2015. Not all players are interested in boring gameplay (clearly you are however given your mapping list which I don't believe has a difficulty above 3.6 stars?). There is no problems with creating a beatmap with the intention of catering to the more skilled crowd if the map's structure and quality remains high and the previous and the flow and design is logical and enjoyable. While I would quote a QAT that I specifically talked to about my use of spacin in this difficulty, I never asked him for permission to quote him so I will not. With Reol - Monster just being ranked, an arguably less intense song catering patterns such as:
First of all, how what is this: "clearly you are however given your mapping list which I don't believe has a difficulty above 3.6 stars?", I don't believe this is anything but telling me I cannot criticize others just because I don't make extra beatmaps. I don't make them because I like different music and I enjoy to map that. That's not really related, I could even compare it to Godwin's Law, which basically says that any online discussion can end up in comparing one's behavior with Nazism - in the meaning that if you have an opinion and the other side doesn't agrees, he'll pick irrelevant reasons to not agree and take it on personal level, even calling you Nazi or whatever. I don't think you should even point this out, don't consider my real life and personality to counter-argument my concerns.
"This is 2015" - Exactly, it's 2015, clearly meaning that people had enough time to realize what quality is and uplift the quality standards. I don't see a reason why to accept something what is already over the song's limits. If it goes over the limits, there's no way it would make sense with music. If you make constant spacing of 2.0x, it doesn't make 3.0x jumps appropriate as even the first value doesn't fit the song. For example, while Drop - Granat by Lan wings was super overhyped beatmap, it doesn't make it any good when it comes to quality. The song itself is pretty chilly, but the map is pretty intense for fun purposes. If you want fun map, apply it to song that is appropriate for it.
"There is no problems with creating a beatmap with the intention of catering to the more skilled crowd if the map's structure and quality remains high and the previous and the flow and design is logical and enjoyable." - Just the intention of creating something for skilled players on such song is not appropriate aspect as you make something what doesn't fit the song's intensity anymore, therefore you decrease the quality.
"While I would quote a QAT that I specifically talked to about my use of spacin in this difficulty, I never asked him for permission to quote him so I will not." - Asking QAT does not guarantee correct answer. QAT's opinion may be incorrect, QATs are not gods who know everything. If something is wrong in someone's eyes, it may be okay in other's eyes. If QAT says something, it doesn't mean a BN or regular mapper is wrong, if he provided logical argument. You can even get a response: "It's okay", which tells you nothing and it's actually happening pretty often, depends on how tolerant and caring about quality is the certain QAT. I don't think it's proper argument to say that someone said it's okay, honestly.
"With Reol - Monster just being ranked, an arguably less intense song catering patterns such as:" - Recently qualified beatmaps are not an argument at all. That is basically saying that QATs and BNs are 100% reliable and provide 100% of quality, which is NOT true. If you want my opinion, then for example I think MONSTER is not perfect as well, for example Fort's Extra could be improved a lot. BUT, mostly, those extra diffs were more logically mapped than this. Because while you have many opportunities to use jumps and make intense parts (now talking about cymbals, there's not even single one that's emphasized noticeably), you just decided to make everything intense, which doesn't reflect the song in any way. Even calm parts, even intense parts were intense, just one part that was getting more intense got more intense and that was actually the overkill, which makes this map really overdone.
It's clear that, if this pattern, ranked just days ago for the other map is acceptable in the eyes of QAT, my map's use of gradually building intensity and climax is at least somewhat legal in terms of the amount of spacing used. I won't deny the fact that yes, technically this mapset could be uploaded without this difficulty and still be fine, but as I have done extensive polishing and testing, I believe that this beatmap is not only perfectly acceptable but extremely enjoyable and fun. This game is not art, I create things that people can enjoy and play.
"ranked just days ago for the other map is acceptable in the eyes of QAT" - QAT is nothing else but a normal modder as we others are just with ability to disqualify, if he thinks something is fine, it doesn't have to be fine.
"acceptable but extremely enjoyable and fun" - Honestly, I am a naive person in real life, but I would never say that my map is acceptable. The fact that something is acceptable is cool, but other thing is whether it's high quality. It's irrelevant example, but I think I can still imply it on this. Imagine I have a child who's being loud in a shop, so I slap him to make him quiet (while it will most likely cry but w/e) - People will see it as acceptable thing, because I wanted it to shut up, but it decreases the quality of my parenthood, ain't it? The same can be applied on mapping.
"This game is not art" - It basically is. Why would we have storyboards if it wasn't? And the maps could be done by BOTs if it wasn't. Just making creative slider is making it automatically an art. tl;dr fergas
"don't play it if you think it's overmapped" - If I don't play the map, that won't increase its quality and this is simply rejection of any critique.Xexxar wrote:
I'm not going to continue this debate.
If you don't like the fact that I have included a difficulty that is in your mind overmapped, don't play it. It's really as a simple as that. I don't see what the problem is with including this difficulty because it's extremely polished and plays well. If you feel that its too intense for the song that's your OPINION. I chose to create it like this and I have no intention of changing it unless a legitimate FLAW is brought to my attention.
As for the spread between hard to insane, have you ever considered that Anxient and I are different people and have different opinions as to how we map and what we chose to do in our maps? It's baffling to me that you actually believe there is a problem between these two difficulties. Hard has some 1/4th, insane includes more 1/4th. Hard has some jumps, insane has more jumps. Hard has a low note density, Insane has a bit higher note density. Why would I seperately introduce things like streams and jumps? Naturally accumulating all elements of the play to not favorite any particular type of play is honestly MORE appropriate than any other method of difficulty spread designing.
I am now going to provide a list of beatmaps that partake in the exact same hyped spaced mapping as my kiai:Wafu wrote:
Xexxar wrote:
You basically deny me to do what BNs are supposed to do - Provide subjective opinion to improve beatmap's quality and that should be discussed. It's fun is not a reason to not fix something at the expense of quality.
Okoratu wrote:
man what the hell i'm not going to read that whole debate, instead i'll throw in my own opinion so each side has things to be mad about
hurray, merry christmas, btw
Xexxar, you seem to have confused two entirely different terms:
Overmapping and overdone. The former means placing notes without having sounds to support them or extending sliders etc
The latter means someone thinks you used an inappropriate way to represent something.
Those are different, and they can stack, just wanted to let you know so you don't confuse people who differentiate between those two things (like me lol)
Your comment towards wafu and his mapping preferences were kinda RUDE
[General]
01:15:913 - timing point seems unnecessary and only for the sake of smooth timing or..? The map's offset changes after the vocals. This timing point is used to correct to the new offset.
01:18:932 - adding a timing point for a metronome reset so the cymbals on nightcore align would make sense but it's not necessary above
[My Hero!]
I mean while the diffname is okayish it for sure isn't creative, you could probably try to come up with some thing which is related in some kind while not only copying something from the lyrics and the song title?
I mean this is basically up to you but i'd try to hide some easter eggs in diffnames because i think it's the funniest thing ever imo. I'll see if I can come up with something, Maybe "My Hiro!" given that it's in the video LOL but I havent played the game so Idk.
[General]
yea a general section for an entire difficulty because I hate repeating myself[]
- I dislike using really short combos, like 2 objects and then ncing like in 01:11:805 - a lot
the reason for that is simple: They distort how hp drain works, a lot.
"The rate at which HP decreases, which is always constant except during breaks. Further HP is lost with misses. HP is recovered by getting a score value and spinning spinners. More HP is recovered with Geki and Katu at the end of a combo."
this also accounts for an extra loss if missing that iirc:
so a part with combospam either gives back A FUCKTON OF HP for hitting 3 easy circles correctly
or punishing you a lot for missing one of them, but that's ok since the rest of the combos are going to give you back a lot hp !!!!! My NC was for the purpose of visuals in this section. I don't really think I'll change it due to the breaking of patterns...- the video may have some spots that blend in with the combocolors of this difficulty, but i'm not sure about that but you should check that as the RC requires you to lol As for the colors, they're from the picture that anxient linked at the begining of the thread, they're the four girl's avatar color. I'll do some more testing to confirm if the colors are indeed problematic.
- also if you want to combo according to stuff in the song you should swap the combos of 00:15:913 (8,1) - 00:17:341 (7,1) - because they have strong piano and vocal impacts while the "downbeat" just has nothing in comparison, applies to more than these 2 so don't fuck your comboing in case you agree lol i hadnt really planned to do anything unique with combo coloring, I might tho
My overall opinion of this is that while it still makes sense and all that stuff the patterns you used can get old quickly honestly if there was a better way to represent this pattern in the music then I would use it but I do feel that it's appropriate, as you've stated.
- the first 3 objects sound like im hitting a bucket instead of a drum rim LOL, idk, I think it sounds fine on it's own.
- 00:01:806 (1,2) - 00:07:520 (1,2) - and the like: not saying i'm against extended sliders but i don't think they work in this context, forcing a click on these felt odd because i assumed the first one is 1/2 instead of 1/4 but even then it created an kind of awkward stop for me so i'd just use more simple 1/1 sliders but uh
i do a lot of other weird stuff so I kept the 3/4 in this case and moved the note out from underneath to trad- 00:13:234 - to 00:18:948 - can you like.. be consistent about which notes you stack and which not right now this section leaves me wondering why you stacked some notes and others are jumps and vice versa.
would make a lot more sense to me if you either explained these or made these stacks in a way that you don't get me to ask you why you stacked 00:16:091 (1,2) - and didn't stack 00:14:663 (1,2) - e t c What I do here is whenever the vocals are "paused" or shes not singing 1/2 and the second note is NOT a clap I will stack. Hope this explains it!- 00:21:805 (1) - Needs waaaayy more impact compared to the other spacing things around it, it got a strong cymbal and everything but spacing is baby, direction change is also smooth, lacks emphasis except if this is what you went for
otherwise more spacing would b nice the vocals are very slow and drawn out therefore so is my motion for that slider.- 00:24:305 (8,1) - ok you pretty much disregard strong cymbals when doing spacing or what we come from an intense section to a slower section so thats why the spacing is lower on the there, it doesnt matter that the cymbal is there because i want to illicit a reduction in the feel of the map
- 00:27:163 (7,1) - man this actually threw me off because it's "just drums and drums only" but vocals and piano have such a strong impact on 00:27:341 -
also the transition between this is pretty much awkward hmm... I don't really find this jarring... I think the bulk of the voice and guitar is emphasized on the downbeat so constructing it this way feels more natural to me. Will leave for now.- 00:40:734 (2,3) - considering overall spacing in this part this is prettyyy low adjusted
- 00:42:698 (6,8,9,1,3) - MAN THIS LOOKED LIKE YOU'LL KEEP DOING A STRAIGHT LINE THING AND THEN YOU COMPLETELY BREAK IT WITH THE LAST OBJECT LINKED WHY DO YOU DO THIS TO MY OCD tbh that bugged me too, idk why I left it. fixed.
- 00:45:913 (3) - duddd if you spam combos at least structure them according to vocals and combo this too applied
- fuck i commented about combos outside general rip
- 00:52:877 (5,1) - this is a chorus right? why does spacing more or less resemble 00:13:234 (1,2) - when the 2nd object has a loud crash adjusted slightly
- 00:56:627 (4) - should have more spacing if it's emphasising vocals adjusted slightly
- 00:58:413 (6,7) - what's the reason for this slowdown in spacing, it seems intentional but i can't explain it by thinking a bit about it 00:58:591 (7) - is a weak beat in the music, therefore I deemphasized it in the pattern? It also looks clean in it's location.
- 00:59:663 (1,2,3,4) - these should be structured in pars of 2, right now you have 00:59:663 (1,2,3) - as a group and 01:00:198 (4) - isolated and emphasised because it breaks the triangle, the song does very basic 12 12 back forth though so this pattern and maybe similar things - if you should spot them - could fit the song better by being a bit restructured this is actually my favorite pattern in the map so i'll likely be pretty stern with my opinion. I am following the synth sound in the background and this pattern feels extremely logical and natural to me. I do not like how 4 is isolated persay but the motion it evolks is perfect.
- 01:01:448 (6,1) - making this circular plays like ass to be honest, if you could break the circular motion for something going upwards etc it'd probably flow better but that would require rearranging the whole next pattern
though it still flows like ass in a circular way like this I don't really agree. I'll keep my eye on this section though.- 01:04:127 (6) - why is this so small i don't get it at all, makes the jump to 01:04:305 (7) - feel a bit odd to me because this one doesn't have strong instruments to support it except for the vocal theres no strong beat on 6 and but theres a strong clap on 7 and the vocals so this spacing seems natural to me.
which you don't seem to be following much anyways- 01:10:913 (4,1) - meh 1 needs more focus and lower spacing won't make me focus on 1 1 is a weak beat in this section as the intesnity dies down before starting up again in the next kiai. what's inappropriate about that?
- 01:12:163 (1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,3,4,1) - oh look a ton of back and forth jumps
could be Madoka's Kneesocks diff tbh
seems a bit unoriginal but plays fine
I don't even know why or if people enjoy this kind of thing if you throw it on too many songs it might get old but zzzezzzzzzzz If you can help me capture this rhythm with better patterns I'd be very interested. As such the back and forth patterns match the back and forth of the snare and the drum in the beat so it will stay for now- 01:20:182 (1) - do you have to have this fucking strong cymbal on its end like
u usually focus these with circles only, why sacrificing it for an instrument you barely follow tbh my whole focus on this section is on the guitar, I adjusted the pattern regardless tho
and that this looks like pp mapping for that reason
but uh i guess the way to represent this song this way still makes sense within the difficulty
i just don't like these kind of diffs, at all but that's none of your concern i guess.
Thechoke pointclimaxing patterns fit the song and the overall atmosphere and the overall spacing concept of this diff is pretty high so having patterns like this seems natural to me
A friendly discussion.Anxient wrote:
holy shit what happened here
Cerulean Veyron wrote:
Rebubbled~ And yes, this will be the last one if sth worse is going on.
We deleted the old1.wav useless file, and adjusted few hitsounds by adding claps/whistles on some parts in-game. Let's make sure no shtstorm happens like that......"it", again ;n;