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DT = Free PP?

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Endaris
5,282 posts
Joined June 2010
Endaris
Where did I say that it is bad...?
I just said that it's a good way to get pp if you have the required skillset. If you don't have the required skillset it isn't.
I don't have the skillset for it which is why I'm farming other maps(Fycho, Sawano Hiroyuki, medium-bpm jump-spam-maps preferably at OD8).
That isn't an "honorable" way of getting pp either(if such a thing exists) even though I can say that I got very few plays on my topplays that are somewhat less trivial like https://osu.ppy.sh/b/372170?m=0 but I guess most people have some plays on their topplays that are good and not just abuse of the pp-metric.

With the "sub 4k pp" thing I'm just pointing at the increasing mapcomplexity on maps you DT which is why the results gained from DT may not be as clean and effortless as below.
buny
3,435 posts
Joined March 2012
buny
people that can't play (insert mod) will claim (insert mod) is free pp

the reality is that select people are demeaning these players so much that it's becoming a maymay. Speed is probably one of the hardest aspects to grasp and naturally will receive more flak
Last edited by buny , edited 2 times in total.
ZenithPhantasm
ZenithPhantasm
vincaslt
101 posts
Joined January 2014
vincaslt
In every mod/nomod you play there are easy songs, that give a lot of pp, be it HD, DT, HR.. Those songs are considered free pp/farm. Those songs help you get that boost, but after a while, pp rain stops, as you have scores in all the free pp maps in your current skill, and by playing them you have not improved to get to the next skill level's pp maps. So people who claim that DT = always free pp, have not yet hit the brick wall of no improvement, but eventually they will. DT doesn't make game harder, just a little different - the patterns are easier to read, but the maps are faster in bpm and ar, so transferring from nomod to DT to play at the same level should not be a problem if your nomod play is solid (different with HR though). I'd say, you should be able to play most of DT maps that would give 170-180pp without big problems, if you can't, well, that means that your overall gameplay is not good enough yet. So my suggestion is, don't play DT. Don't play it until you're immediately comfortable playing it, because you'll learn to spam quickly, and maybe get some decent DT scores, but you'll be useless as an overall player, without solid basics - which is nomod.

Source: experience, I started playing DT at your rank, then had to re-learn the game after I hit a point of no improvement.
A Medic
460 posts
Joined May 2013
A Medic
DT isn't free pp, it's a different style of play. If you don't have speed dt might not be for you.
-Makishima S-
2,434 posts
Joined August 2013
-Makishima S-
Please do not necropost.
Endie-
784 posts
Joined March 2015
Endie-
Learning DT is easier than learning HR. If you want PP, then DT is the way to go. Its no secret that DTHD gives more PP than playing HDHR. Just look at the top scores from Hvick and Rafis for example.
My opinion anyway
buny
3,435 posts
Joined March 2012
buny

erikG wrote:

Learning DT is easier than learning HR. If you want PP, then DT is the way to go. Its no secret that DTHD gives more PP than playing HDHR. Just look at the top scores from Hvick and Rafis for example.
My opinion anyway
Your opinion is wrong
Endie-
784 posts
Joined March 2015
Endie-

a loli wrote:

erikG wrote:

Learning DT is easier than learning HR. If you want PP, then DT is the way to go. Its no secret that DTHD gives more PP than playing HDHR. Just look at the top scores from Hvick and Rafis for example.
My opinion anyway
Your opinion is wrong
Why?
CelegaS
484 posts
Joined April 2012
CelegaS
www did a 667pp score with hr
RaneFire
1,181 posts
Joined May 2011
RaneFire

erikG wrote:

a loli wrote:

Your opinion is wrong
Why?
Although DT is a mod, it's basically just nomod at 1.5x speed. This is how the PP system sees it, nothing special. To go from playing nomod to DT is a natural progression for most people. The hardest aspects to learn with DT are the same that restrict you from playing the more difficult nomod maps. It completely depends on what map you are playing. That's why people start DT'ing 100-120 BPM, when they are able to play 180 BPM. The more maps at your skill level, the better, and DT adds many more.

People have respect for nomod players because of the very few difficult maps available which give good PP. This makes finding rewarding nomod maps, that you can actually play, the hardest part. But with DT you have thousands more options available. It's not free, there is just more to play.

DT = More PP. Not easier, not harder. Just more.
-Makishima S-
2,434 posts
Joined August 2013
-Makishima S-

erikG wrote:

Learning DT is easier than learning HR. If you want PP, then DT is the way to go. Its no secret that DTHD gives more PP than playing HDHR. Just look at the top scores from Hvick and Rafis for example.
My opinion anyway
So far higest pp score ingame is claimed by *cought* HR, not HDDT.

DT is simply not for you if you don't have stamina and cannot hold high bpm for long enough. Not everyone is supposed to be able play high bpm, nor have physical abilities to do this. Same rules applys to HR, not everyone stands and can play 6-8min long maps on bpm below 200.

Both mods are free pp, same as nomod is also free pp, you just need to know what to play.
All mods have their "free pp" mappool. They are just completly diffrent from each other in matter of complexity and length.
Endie-
784 posts
Joined March 2015
Endie-
Thanks for great responses guys. It's nice to get another point of view. I won't act like I know the ins and outs of this game ^~^
Last edited by Endie- , edited 2 times in total.
vsprite
369 posts
Joined January 2014
vsprite
Although DT is a mod, it's basically just nomod at 1.5x speed. This is how the PP system sees it, nothing special. To go from playing nomod to DT is a natural progression for most people. The hardest aspects to learn with DT are the same that restrict you from playing the more difficult nomod maps. It completely depends on what map you are playing. That's why people start DT'ing 100-120 BPM, when they are able to play 180 BPM. The more maps at your skill level, the better, and DT adds many more.

People have respect for nomod players because of the very few difficult maps available which give good PP. This makes finding rewarding nomod maps, that you can actually play, the hardest part. But with DT you have thousands more options available. It's not free, there is just more to play.

DT = More PP. Not easier, not harder. Just more.
There are alot of nomod maps now, just sayin.
Mahogany
2,684 posts
Joined August 2014
Mahogany
I believe that learning+playing DT well at a mid level most definitely is easier than learning+playing HR at a mid level, for the following reasons:

AR 9.6>Easier to play properly than AR10

OD9.6>Easier to play properly than OD10

Easy patterns @ 1.5x speed>Easier to play properly than difficult patterns at what will likely be a similar speed

CS4>Easier than CS5.2

And there are no other "Main" mods that give such a large PP difference.
trebby
489 posts
Joined August 2014
trebby
Every mod has it's own difficult points. People that have trouble with speed and reaction time have trouble playing DT, with accuracy, aim, and reaction time; HR, and with reading; HD.
I agree that DT rewards too much on easier songs (or farm-able songs), but it's definitely viable on harder songs that are actually hard to play with DT. It's a matter of individuality, because some people will struggle with DT more than others since it's not tuned towards their playstyle or skill level. Whereas others who are already used to the speed of DT can easily churn out higher pp scores with their mindset and experience with the mod.
Mahogany
2,684 posts
Joined August 2014
Mahogany
The problem though is that at a mid level most popular DT maps are the same speed as nomod equivalents so at a mid level it really doesn't require speed
chainpullz
2,334 posts
Joined June 2013
chainpullz

Mahogany wrote:

The problem though is that at a mid level most popular DT maps are the same speed as nomod equivalents so at a mid level it really doesn't require speed
The even bigger issue being that they have higher OD and tend to have patterns similar to the patterns of the easiest no mod maps. So if you excel at accuracy on easy patterns then DT has more room to reward you for it. Also, most people are incapable of reading ar10 well enough to abuse HR on easy pattern maps even though it has far more room for abuse than DT.
buny
3,435 posts
Joined March 2012
buny
nearly everyone can read ar10 nowadays, since most maps are mapped 9.3+

and idk about you guys, daidai took me a long while to do with high (decent) acc.
chainpullz
2,334 posts
Joined June 2013
chainpullz

a loli wrote:

nearly everyone can read ar10 nowadays, since most maps are mapped 9.3+

and idk about you guys, daidai took me a long while to do with high (decent) acc.
Never said excelling at acc wasn't difficult. :p
Pituophis
859 posts
Joined January 2015
Pituophis

a loli wrote:

nearly everyone can read ar10 nowadays, since most maps are mapped 9.3+

and idk about you guys, daidai took me a long while to do with high (decent) acc.
what? I can play up to AR 9.8 fine on most days. I can't play ar10 at all. Or do scrubs not count as part of everyone?
Trizept
152 posts
Joined February 2014
Trizept
I have mental block on genome =w=
I don't think I will ever fc it anytime soon.

a loli wrote:

nearly everyone can read ar10 nowadays, since most maps are mapped 9.3+

and idk about you guys, daidai took me a long while to do with high (decent) acc.
I was able to read ar 9.6 (ar 8 DT) perfectly fine, but when it came to
ar10, it was a whole another story. I literally had to spend a whole month on it to get used to it.
The Gambler
1,304 posts
Joined September 2013
The Gambler

Xbox wrote:

I have mental block on genome =w=
I don't think I will ever fc it anytime soon.
Lol, I feel the same for Koigokoro.
chainpullz
2,334 posts
Joined June 2013
chainpullz
I avoided the worst possible scenario by splitting my koigokoro sightread 98% cleanly in half with a single miss.
timemon
Beatmap Nominator
1,305 posts
Joined November 2012
timemon
DT is only easy to read at ar9.67 and ar10. Even the tamest pattern on ar10.3 will kill you, if you're not prepared. (AR10.3 why are you so hard ;w;)

"Hey, I can FC it therefore it's free pp!"
I Give Up
1,648 posts
Joined January 2014
I Give Up
No such thing as free pp.
Infevo
463 posts
Joined October 2014
Infevo
as someone who likes playing dt and nomod equally i don't see how the claim dt=free pp holds.

while some maps are easy pattern wise dt still increases ar/od/bpm. and as long as you don't have the sufficient reading/acc/speed it won't give you anything compared to nomod maps within the same difficulty rating.
Risa
435 posts
Joined January 2014
Risa
I like how those who hate DT complain abt DT ruining the song but i've never seen anything abt HT
chainpullz
2,334 posts
Joined June 2013
chainpullz

Reset- wrote:

I like how those who hate DT complain abt DT ruining the song but i've never seen anything abt HT
Halftime skystar's laziness op ecksdee.
Mahogany
2,684 posts
Joined August 2014
Mahogany
HT ruins song too but isn't good for farm so nobody plays it
Infevo
463 posts
Joined October 2014
Infevo

Mahogany wrote:

HT ruins song too but isn't good for farm so nobody plays it

I am sorry but I did never notice that DT would ruin sound quality as much as HT does in any case. I only had some cases where DT wouldn't sound as good as nomod due to the song already being rather fast or complex.
E m i
E m i
not sound but song
Vuelo Eluko
5,484 posts
Joined October 2013
Vuelo Eluko
COOKIEZI
vsprite
369 posts
Joined January 2014
vsprite
Its a rhythm game play however the fuck you want to play it.some mods (or no mods) will suit people better than others.


coming from nomod player who respects mod players equally
I Give Up
1,648 posts
Joined January 2014
I Give Up
I put a lot of effort into my DT scores I want to FC popular maps from famous mouse player like peachick: Touhou - Flower Flag DT, pyonta: Natsukoi Hanabi DT, cptnXn 45nen DT, etc. I am so close getting first 300pp score I finally got speed to stream it with %98 bad acc but it is DT map I get called shitty player/dirty dt farmer all the time and I feel terrible now I won't play it :*(

I am not even strong mouse player its like instead of being congratulated for FCing things I am being punished for it. I never say anything bad I respect all player mod/nomod tablet/mouse. The hate got too strong I just can't DT any more NotLikeThis.
vsprite
369 posts
Joined January 2014
vsprite

KukiMonster wrote:

I put a lot of effort into my DT scores I want to FC popular maps from famous mouse player like peachick: Touhou - Flower Flag DT, pyonta: Natsukoi Hanabi DT, cptnXn 45nen DT, etc. I am so close getting first 300pp score I finally got speed to stream it with %98 bad acc but it is DT map I get called shitty player/dirty dt farmer all the time and I feel terrible now I won't play it :*(

I am not even strong mouse player its like instead of being congratulated for FCing things I am being punished for it. I never say anything bad I respect all player mod/nomod tablet/mouse. The hate got too strong I just can't DT any more NotLikeThis.
*hugs*
timemon
Beatmap Nominator
1,305 posts
Joined November 2012
timemon

KukiMonster wrote:

I put a lot of effort into my DT scores I want to FC popular maps from famous mouse player like peachick: Touhou - Flower Flag DT, pyonta: Natsukoi Hanabi DT, cptnXn 45nen DT, etc. I am so close getting first 300pp score I finally got speed to stream it with %98 bad acc but it is DT map I get called shitty player/dirty dt farmer all the time and I feel terrible now I won't play it :*(

I am not even strong mouse player its like instead of being congratulated for FCing things I am being punished for it. I never say anything bad I respect all player mod/nomod tablet/mouse. The hate got too strong I just can't DT any more NotLikeThis.
It's the fate of DT players. If you're not top50, you are DT shitters who only retry daidai genome 24/7.
Some people just have to bash someone to make themselves feel better.
autoteleology
763 posts
Joined October 2014
autoteleology
Anyone who has strong opinions about something like this isn't worth listening to

The point of the game is to have fun lmao

don't participate in the race to the bottom of the superiority barrel
timemon
Beatmap Nominator
1,305 posts
Joined November 2012
timemon

Philosofikal wrote:

The point of the game is to have fun lmao
People play differently. Not everyone plays the game to have fun, some wants to see improvement and progression.
Infevo
463 posts
Joined October 2014
Infevo

timemon wrote:

Philosofikal wrote:

The point of the game is to have fun lmao
People play differently. Not everyone plays the game to have fun, some wants to see improvement and progression.

Some actually have fun improving, progressing, competing and racking up pp. Who would've thought that.
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