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osu! World Cup 2015 - Discussion Thread

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buny
Back to this argument, eh?

I can't provide HDSS proof, guess everything I said is invalid now, sorry guys.

Kert wrote:

a loli wrote:

I would argue that reading low AR HD is not a desirable skill; nearly every ranked map these days with an insane+ difficulty are mapped above AR9. Most maps you are going to play in the higher end of the difficulty spectrum are going to be AR9 or above, reading below AR9 is not a necessary skill to be a top ranked player, but reading AR9 and above is a necessary skill to be a top player (unless there are enough maps below AR9 to get into top 100?)
Being the very best requires you to be able to excel at everything. No, I'm not talking about PP and rankings
have an EZmod pool then.

Also, I don't see a 300+bpm pool either
Kert

a loli wrote:

have an EZmod pool then.
Also, I don't see a 300+bpm pool either
Why are you exaggerating so much? This 4 star HD map isn't close to EZ or 300bpm level of difficulty. Or is it?
buny
it's a direct statement to your "to be best, must be best at everything"
jesse1412

a loli wrote:

Back to this argument, eh?

I can't provide HDSS proof, guess everything I said is invalid now, sorry guys.

Kert wrote:

Being the very best requires you to be able to excel at everything. No, I'm not talking about PP and rankings
have an EZmod pool then.

Also, I don't see a 300+bpm pool either
Not an argument people will like but it's a legit one. If you want to test every skill then ez mod pools and things should exist. Obviously we don't actually want to test every skill ever, OWC has always been about reading and aim, very little stamina and speed involved relative to the amount of aim/reading required.
Kert

a loli wrote:

it's a direct statement to your "to be best, must be best at everything"
It's an OWC thread though.
But yeah, Player A who is top tier at everything (regular skills?) would be worse than player B who is the same but can also EZ, FL and 300bpm streams
buny

jesus1412 wrote:

OWC has always been about reading and aim, very little stamina and speed involved relative to the amount of aim/reading required
Yes, and ultimately my complaint with this map is it has only reading and (nearly) no aiming. The people that are saying that it's just an underrated map seem to be ignoring the aiming aspect.

Honestly I never thought this thread will blow up because of one complaint
Endaris
Well, you made a generalised statement that you wouldn't deem the map appropriate for OWC instead of saying that you personally dislike it.
I disagree with the former, I think it fits in well but I can see why people might dislike the map.
I wouldn't mind an EZ-pool but EZ needs more popularity to make it reasonable
Topic Starter
Loctav
Please consider that the Group Stage is considered as mere Qualification stage, seeding all players according to their initial performance into the actual tournament, starting from Round of 16. Only 16 of 32 countries can in fact qualify. Therefore, the Group Stage pool is designed to measure said seeding and to offer a proper qualification stage, hence why it is way easier than what comes from RO16 and further.
ToGlette

a loli wrote:

Kert wrote:

Being the very best requires you to be able to excel at everything. No, I'm not talking about PP and rankings
have an EZmod pool then.

Also, I don't see a 300+bpm pool either
It is not that I want to say stamina wtf or EZ go away. I just like to add a little spice to Kert's opinion. No need to go that extreme to both sides since only few has achieved them. We can say this player is godly on certain mod, and say "yes they are the best". However, tournament is more like generalizing the players to tournament's standards and ranking them. It would be good to see players able to play 300BPM or EZ but then it will not be a competition because only few outstanding ones can play so we need to adjust it on the both end.

About what jesse said, we are working on this issue and I can say that you might see a positive result.
Kert
2ToGlette:
I wasn't suggesting actually adding EZ mappools and stuff like that (that would be a too sudden change for now),
I am just being positive about mappickers' ideas of spicing up the list of maps with something a tad gimmicky : )
buny

Loctav wrote:

Please consider that the Group Stage is considered as mere Qualification stage, seeding all players according to their initial performance into the actual tournament, starting from Round of 16. Only 16 of 32 countries can in fact qualify. Therefore, the Group Stage pool is designed to measure said seeding and to offer a proper qualification stage, hence why it is way easier than what comes from RO16 and further.
Oh I'm glad you answered this in the middle of the mess,

are there going to be plans to change next years OWC then? I'm sure a lot of the OWC players would rather play a bit more difficult maps, especially considering the skill level of the more experienced player base increases every year. The level of the maps in the finals pool last year have increased astoundingly, maps that were in the finals a few years ago would be considered entry level in these times.

I guess this argument is more about me being a bit salty that as a player on a non-seeded team that is most likely going to be knocked out in group stages, it feels like we (teams not expected to win) are being treated as if we're not good enough to play harder maps.
Topic Starter
Loctav
The group stage pool will always be balanced around the average audience playing in it. This includes players hovering in ranks way below Top 1000. It makes no sense to pick maps that may make top 1000 players struggle, but where people below it can not even reasonably compete.

Sure stronger people will always be stronger, but making things way harder than it is right now is just humiliating the lower end of the participating people.
fartownik
Someone has made a "Pick'em Challenge" for the OWC on reddit. https://www.reddit.com/r/osugame/commen ... 5_pick_em/

Well, it's something.
Endaris
No little girl statistics yet though :/
Daborgia
Ok Clumsy Thought is a funny and reallly really easy to fail ( dont know how it is in score v2) and there i think no one will pick it, because of its high risk. Other maps are fine
Yauxo

Endaris wrote:

No little girl statistics yet though :/
Well, so far we have (x) in the Background:

Girls: 20 (I guess you could consider 5 of these as "loli")
Guys: 5
Non-Human/Landscape: 2
ToGlette

fartownik wrote:

Someone has made a "Pick'em Challenge" for the OWC on reddit. https://www.reddit.com/r/osugame/commen ... 5_pick_em/

Well, it's something.

Wow I didn't expect to see a pick'em in osu! Well, few OWCs before, we had voting games but it is good to see it coming back with new format.
Vuelo Eluko
little girls are not loli's, loli's do not really exist in real life since it's an adult mind in a child's body.
chainpullz

xxjesus1412fanx wrote:

little girls are not loli's, loli's do not really exist in real life since it's an adult mind in a child's body.
Loli do exist irl. It's just extremely rare for women to not grow above (insert height limit) and have a flat chest. Loli irl are essentially flat chested midgets.
shortpotato
group stage starting soon hype
Vuelo Eluko
Do your best everyone. Represent the hopes and dreams of all your countrymen.
Athrun
Good luck to all teams! No matter who your opponent is, put in as much effort as needed!
Xayne

ToGlette wrote:

fartownik wrote:

Someone has made a "Pick'em Challenge" for the OWC on reddit. https://www.reddit.com/r/osugame/commen ... 5_pick_em/

Well, it's something.

Wow I didn't expect to see a pick'em in osu! Well, few OWCs before, we had voting games but it is good to see it coming back with new format.
Next up: Osu! World Cup Draft Kings and FanDuel.
SerferPL
Could someone explain this "Top-high-low-no Seed" thing? What's the deal wit it?
CXu
It spreads out the best teams (according to some metric) so that you basically don't get something like Poland vs. Taiwan or whatever in group stages.
fartownik

CXu wrote:

It spreads out the best teams (according to some metric) so that you basically don't get something like Poland vs. Taiwan or whatever in group stages.
More like, you don't get 3/4 top teams in one group so one or two of them have to go out early.
Minhtam

fartownik wrote:

CXu wrote:

It spreads out the best teams (according to some metric) so that you basically don't get something like Poland vs. Taiwan or whatever in group stages.
More like, you don't get 3/4 top teams in one group so one or two of them have to go out early.
Mmhmm... How did that work out? #GroupOfDeath #GroupF
Railey2

Loctav wrote:

Please consider that the Group Stage is considered as mere Qualification stage, seeding all players according to their initial performance into the actual tournament, starting from Round of 16. Only 16 of 32 countries can in fact qualify. Therefore, the Group Stage pool is designed to measure said seeding and to offer a proper qualification stage, hence why it is way easier than what comes from RO16 and further.
If your objective is to determine fair seeds (sorting the teams from strongest to weakest and pairing them in a fashion that the supposedly strongest teams can only potentially compete against each other at the very end of the tournament), it should have been in your best interest to pick maps where differences in skill between teams show in the clearest manner (because otherwise you can't accurately sort them from strongest to weakest).

With that in mind, what you said doesn't make sense. If you pick easy maps, you won't be able to assess accurately what team is the best, because their ability to play easy maps converges (each and every one of them will SS the tutorial).
Conversely, their ability to play harder maps diverges: You don't expect someone ranked around 1k to be as good on, lets say Image Material, as someone ranked in the top10.

In other words, you achieved the exact opposite of what you wanted. Your set of easy maps will not be as effective in enabling you to assess differences in skill between players or teams, as a set of harder maps.

Saying that it gets harder later on is completely irrelevant in that context. How difficult the maps later on are, is in no way related to your initial objective (the hopefully fair seeding).
CXu
Will you add a stream schedule anytime soon (if there isn't one already, that is)? Would be nice to know which games are being streamed.
Topic Starter
Loctav
There is no stream schedule for Group Stages. We decide that momentarily. Sometimes matches do not work out (connection issues, people not showing up, etc.), so making plans ahead is pretty much pointless here. However, we try to cover every team at least once, alas we can't promise it. It decides on the flow and what seems to be the most promising in the current time block.

For future stages, matches do not overlap and all matches will be covered by the stream and therefore the match schedule is equivalent to the stream schedule.
CXu
Well, I thought you'd have a outline, so we could know what match to expect to see on stream. There was one last year iirc. It'd be convenient for telling friends and stuff.
chainpullz

Loctav wrote:

There is no stream schedule for Group Stages. We decide that momentarily. Sometimes matches do not work out (connection issues, people not showing up, etc.), so making plans ahead is pretty much pointless here. However, we try to cover every team at least once, alas we can't promise it. It decides on the flow and what seems to be the most promising in the current time block.

For future stages, matches do not overlap and all matches will be covered by the stream and therefore the match schedule is equivalent to the stream schedule.
Would it be possible to host all of the concurrent matches even if the commentators are only casting a specific match (ie. more than 1 stream)? I assume any major changes like this would have to wait until next year but I ask nonetheless.
buny

Minhtam wrote:

Mmhmm... How did that work out? #GroupOfDeath #GroupF
The group just happened to get the best team of the lower seed, I'm not too sure why everyone's going around making a meme about it.

It has been stated that Japan had a lot of lower rank players in their lineup, which caused their seeding to be lower than expected.
Minhtam

a loli wrote:

Minhtam wrote:

Mmhmm... How did that work out? #GroupOfDeath #GroupF
The group just happened to get the best team of the lower seed, I'm not too sure why everyone's going around making a meme about it.
Exactly. #GroupOfDeath.
chainpullz

Minhtam wrote:

Exactly. #GroupOfDeath.
It's not a group of death since Japan sucks this year. Being Japan doesn't magically make up for the fact that most of their top players aren't competing. It's no more a group of death than any of the other groups.
Te Amo
Best of luck to whoever is participating :D
Kert
Are we going to play with new slider drawing when using Hidden? Latest stable was just updated with this.
Topic Starter
Loctav
Multi is forced to use the old
Makan1
?_? so does that mean when practicing in solo, its the new HD slider but during the tournament, its with the old??

I ... might... question why lol.



isn't this something only riot does
Tebz188

Makan1 wrote:

isn't this something only riot does
and everyother major e-sports
Aka
...
Athrun
What is this sorcery.
buny
dream is dead guys, was a very nice match

https://osu.ppy.sh/mp/20091841
JappyBabes
gz malaysia
Athrun
Quality stream. Kappa. :3
Sileighty
brazil hype
Yauxo
Still waiting for O-oooooooooo AAAAE-A-A-I-A-U- JO-oooooooooooo AAE-O-A-A-U-U-A- E-eee-ee-eee AAAAE-A-E-I-E-A-JO-ooo-oo-oo-oo EEEEO-A-AAA-AAAA to be picked as a warmup
Aloha
GG Malaysia.
Tofuklops
Hey guys, I missed Austrian vs Taiwan game... Could anybody tell me how it ended?
Yuno I Love You
Mazzerin was a magician! In the Lit-Fra match
Tebz188

Phoni-sama wrote:

Hey guys, I missed Austrian vs Taiwan game... Could anybody tell me how it ended?
Bass

Yauxo wrote:

Still waiting for O-oooooooooo AAAAE-A-A-I-A-U- JO-oooooooooooo AAE-O-A-A-U-U-A- E-eee-ee-eee AAAAE-A-E-I-E-A-JO-ooo-oo-oo-oo EEEEO-A-AAA-AAAA to be picked as a warmup

ADRENALINE IS PUMPING
Tofuklops

tbag188 wrote:

Phoni-sama wrote:

Hey guys, I missed Austrian vs Taiwan game... Could anybody tell me how it ended?
Woah, that's nice! Thanks very much :)
fartownik
rfandomization I hope you're there for out match at least

because this is horrible
Houtarou Oreki
How did Taiwan vs Portugal end?
a1l2d3r4e5d6

Houtarou Oreki wrote:

How did Taiwan vs Portugal end?
Taiwan took that from a tiebreak.
Ayako
I am proud to be a Singaporean
plaatinum

Ayako wrote:

I am proud to be a Singaporean
im gay
fartownik
Singapore put up a really good fight. Nice try.
[Japinha CPM22]
BRASIL HYPE
Tofuklops
Btw, where can I see the actual standing incl. the points?
Or am I just bad in searching? :c
tryaway

Phoni-sama wrote:

Btw, where can I see the actual standing incl. the points?
Or am I just bad in searching? :c
no OWC staff just too lazy to make page for that
Tofuklops

tryaway wrote:

Phoni-sama wrote:

Btw, where can I see the actual standing incl. the points?
Or am I just bad in searching? :c
no OWC staff just too lazy to make page for that
I think I have to wait until the end then or maybe it will be added later ^^
[TaikoTori]

Phoni-sama wrote:

Btw, where can I see the actual standing incl. the points?
Or am I just bad in searching? :c
You can atleast find the mp links and look for yourself here.
leepdesu

plaatinum wrote:

Ayako wrote:

I am proud to be a Singaporean
im gay
how to carry burden team
Railey2
you can also see the results here, together with a comment about each match. Lets hope he keeps that list up to date!
SuzumiyaBR
Austria At.gif Tw.gif Taiwan 10.00 (10am) 11.00 (11am) UTC +1 18.00 (6pm) UTC +8
New Zealand Nz.gif Fi.gif Finland 10.00 (10am) 22.00 (10pm) UTC +12 12.00 (12pm) UTC +2
Malaysia My.gif Au.gif Australia 10.00 (10am) 18.00 (6pm) UTC +8 20.00 (8pm) UTC +10
Philippines Ph.gif Jp.gif Japan 10.00 (10am) 18.00 (6pm) UTC +8 19.00 (7pm) UTC +9
Singapore Sg.gif De.gif Germany 11.00 (11am) 19.00 (7pm) UTC +8 12.00 (12pm) UTC +1
Thailand Th.gif Nl.gif Netherlands 11.00 (11am) 18.00 (6pm) UTC +7 12.00 (12pm) UTC +1
United Kingdom Gb.gif Cn.gif China 11.00 (11am) 11.00 (11am) UTC +0 19.00 (7pm) UTC +8
Lithuania Lt.gif Fr.gif France 12.00 (12pm) 14.00 (2pm) UTC +2 13.00 (1pm) UTC +1
Italy It.gif Hk.gif Hong Kong 12.00 (12pm) 13.00 (1pm) UTC +1 20.00 (8pm) UTC +8
Portugal Pt.gif Tw.gif Taiwan 12.00 (12pm) 12.00 (12pm) UTC +0 20.00 (8pm) UTC +8
Singapore Sg.gif Th.gif Thailand 13.00 (1pm) 21.00 (9pm) UTC +8 20.00 (8pm) UTC +7
Philippines Ph.gif Gb.gif United Kingdom 13.00 (1pm) 21.00 (9pm) UTC +8 13.00 (1pm) UTC +0
Argentina Ar.gif Kr.gif South Korea 13.00 (1pm) 10.00 (10am) UTC -3 22.00 (10pm) UTC +9

Results ???
Railey2
where to get the badges again
Froslass
So can people now actually believe me that Taiwan isn't a strong title contender?
fabriciorby

Blue Dragon wrote:

So can people now actually believe me that Taiwan isn't a strong title contender?
Where's your BRASIL signature
Endaris
I would love to know what people banned so far as the MP-links show the same picks all the way through.
Nwolf
from the streamed matches I could get this:





so assume that most matches have Yoshiwara and Clumsy Thoughts banned and quite a few of them with anesthesia and S.M.L. banned

EDIT: map pick/ban tables
chainpullz

Blue Dragon wrote:

So can people now actually believe me that Taiwan isn't a strong title contender?
Did people even think they were favored to begin with? I'm pretty sure any informed player would have considered Austria heavily favored to win that match.
Synchrostar
clumsy thoughts is fun ;-;
Gigo

chainpullz wrote:

Did people even think they were favored to begin with? I'm pretty sure any informed player would have considered Austria heavily favored to win that match.
Oh really? Since you seem to be informed enough, can you enlighten me on why they were considered the stronger team in this match?
Endaris
People still banning the hell out of Yoshiwara Lament, looks like buny wasn't the only one hating the pick.
SuzumiyaBR
WWW in room of Portugal VS Austria
WWW : Hi
Portugal : New Portugal ace
Portugal : Polonia help us


R.I.P Portugal
kkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkk
Karthy
With the stream being cut off every 10 minutes and the constant "client lag", mixed with the fact that there's nowhere else (as far as i'm aware) to keep up to date on the world cup, I'm finding it difficult to enjoy. Anyone know if this is going to be fixed further into the tournament? I just wanna watch me some circles ;_;
SuzumiyaBR
Polônia 3x0 Canada
Polônia ( without Rafis and WWW ) 4x0 Canada

Austria 4x1 Portugal
chainpullz

Gigo wrote:

chainpullz wrote:

Did people even think they were favored to begin with? I'm pretty sure any informed player would have considered Austria heavily favored to win that match.
Oh really? Since you seem to be informed enough, can you enlighten me on why they were considered the stronger team in this match?
spoilers I guess
Omgforz and Alumetorz are two of the most consistent players in the world when it comes to tournaments. That's not even mentioning the other top players that round out Austria's roster. When Omgforz is your lowest ranked player that's a good indication that your team is deserving of a top seed.

Taiwan on the other hand struggles to field even 4 consistent players especially with Small K not even competing in today's match against Austria. Even if its the case that Hvick was the most skilled player in that match, tournaments aren't won off sheer skill alone. With the difficulty of the map pool consistency is the only factor that really matters and having Hvick on your team gives you no more advantage than having Omgforz on your team in that department.

I'm not saying "clearly Austria was going to 4-0" but I certainly expected an Austria win with above 50% certainty. It was more of a "how many maps will it take for Austria to pull ahead?" question to me.
Endaris

SuzumiyaBR wrote:

...
cool people put results into spoilers
fartownik
Was there even a match where Clumsy Thoughts wasn't banned?
Karuta-_old_1

Karthy wrote:

With the stream being cut off every 10 minutes and the constant "client lag", mixed with the fact that there's nowhere else (as far as i'm aware) to keep up to date on the world cup, I'm finding it difficult to enjoy. Anyone know if this is going to be fixed further into the tournament? I just wanna watch me some circles ;_;
I doubt it is anything like client lag, it is either a bug or a latency issue with bancho which can't be fixed (not saying it is impossible but you know?)
(maybe someone can share their settings for the OBS to improve the quality a bit but that's all I could think of)

interesting to see how some matches become so different with score V2, like Taiwan vs Austria, really convincing victory there

For non-streamed matches I could only hold on to the mp links
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... pw/pubhtml
SuzumiyaBR

Endaris wrote:

SuzumiyaBR wrote:

...
cool people put results into spoilers

The results should be on the first page of that topic
Endaris

fartownik wrote:

Was there even a match where Clumsy Thoughts wasn't banned?
Yep, at least 2 times on the stream(austria vs taiwan and right now argentina vs finland). Yoshiwara Lament at 100% banrate on stream still.

The results should be on the first page of that topic
No, they're on the wiki page.
SuzumiyaBR

Endaris wrote:

fartownik wrote:

Was there even a match where Clumsy Thoughts wasn't banned?
Yep, at least 2 times on the stream(austria vs taiwan and right now argentina vs finland). Yoshiwara Lament at 100% banrate on stream still.

The results should be on the first page of that topic
No, they're on the wiki page.

Where
https://osu.ppy.sh/wiki/OWC_2015

??????????????

Should upgrade. so the match ended
chainpullz
Is there even much advantage to banning Clumsy Thought. The map is basically mutually assured destruction. I mean, if you are confident enough that you will beat the other team on every other map, losing once isn't that big of a deal imo. It seems like a map that only a lower seed team would pick knowing they have no chance to beat the high seeded team on non-gimmick maps so might as well try to roll a 6.
Karuta-_old_1
Where
https://osu.ppy.sh/wiki/OWC_2015

Should upgrade update. so the match ended

truthfully I couldn't find it either, they probably got the result sheet from one of the refs like always
Endaris
You can get the results on stream by typing !results
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... pw/pubhtml
Pyrka

Endaris wrote:

You can get the results on stream by typing !results
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... pw/pubhtml
I just wanted to post it, damn!
Minhtam
Does anybody have a group table? I made an unofficial one just in case Marcin is behind on the official one.

(I stress unofficial because the 4th tiebreaker I used is NOT the tiebreaker that will be used)

http://challonge.com/15owcShadow
Synchrostar
we got our clumsy thoughts

im happy now
fartownik
First Clumsy Thoughts ever - only 2 people survive the map XD
juutalainen420
1 player at Finland team got dc`ed and still Argentina got point? How does this tournament works?
Endaris

jebany-smurf wrote:

1 player at Finland team got dc`ed and still Argentina got point? How does this tournament works?
Read the rules.
chainpullz

jebany-smurf wrote:

1 player at Finland team got dc`ed and still Argentina got point? How does this tournament works?
Unplugging your router is not cause for a map to be thrown out. Since there's no way to differentiate between unplugging your router and any other sort of disconnect the same applies for all disconnects.
fartownik
Yeah mods, censor the BibleThump emote so people can't have fun! Great idea.
SuzumiyaBR

Minhtam wrote:

Does anybody have a group table? I made an unofficial one just in case Marcin is behind on the official one.

(I stress unofficial because the 4th tiebreaker I used is NOT the tiebreaker that will be used)

http://challonge.com/15owcShadow

Update this

Argentina 3x4
Ukraine 4x1
Marcin

Minhtam wrote:

Does anybody have a group table? I made an unofficial one just in case Marcin is behind on the official one.

(I stress unofficial because the 4th tiebreaker I used is NOT the tiebreaker that will be used)

http://challonge.com/15owcShadow
It will be up tomorrow, sorry for delay.
SuzumiyaBR
Game Name: OWC 2015: (Sweden) vs (Austria) (#120,150,054)
Duration: 05:22:52 - 05:27:29
Game Mode: osu! (Team VS)
Scoring Mode: Highest 3
Slot Score Acc User Combo 300s 100s 50s Miss
1 1,004,597 99.92% Xytox 1230 840 1 0 0

LOOOOL

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