Any information on when the 'cleaning' happens?
Baraatje123 wrote:
Any information on when the 'cleaning' happens?
Loctav wrote:
We were busy with world cups. I rather want a fair measurement than a rushed one. The inactive people are also not hurting anyone, so if It takes three days more, it doesn't make everything explode. The purge was scheduled for Wesnesday this week already anyways.
Baraatje123 wrote:
Any information on when the 'cleaning' happens?
So that's September 9th correct? Well........Loctav wrote:
The purge was scheduled for Wednesday this week already anyways.
This was the day I was removed from staff. Talk about cursed fateBeatofIke's Userpage wrote:
Joined/Removed Chat OP (Chat Moderators): August 21, 2014 - September 9th, 2014.
Joined/Removed Old -> New BAT Merge (Beatmap Appreciation Team): August 21, 2014 - September 9th, 2014.
Well there are some modders who could do that if they are very skilled with modding and been in the game for a couple years, but increasing the required mod count for the BN's is a tad too brutal. I am just going to sit in the shadows and see what unfolds here.Raiden wrote:
180 is not a minimum anymore. The minimum is 1200 BN score in the trial phase of the application (which can be reached without 180 kudosu, depends on the amount of mods you did in the last 3 months).
Also: hell NO at the increase of required mods/month by BNs. "3-5 mods every month; that is something you can do in 3 hours or something." That is a complete lie and I can confirm it even if I'm not a BN. A good mod (just 1) can take even DAYS to complete because you want to revise it in detail/add more comments/explain something more thouroughly. And even MORE, if you are planning to set an icon to said map.
Removing inactive BNs won't decrease the activity at all, their addition to the current activity is minimal. On the last 3 or so applications, besides the kudosu count and last 3 months mods, you were also asked to supply 3 mods, which were reviewed to assess their quality. I think that 180 as a hard minimum will just force people to spam bad mods, rather than focus on doing quality mods.inspectorscout wrote:
Ok, I am still relatively new to modding with just 51 kudosu, but I'm still going to try and express my opinion.
I believe that monstrata is right; removing inactive members of the BN has to happen, but it is not a good way of decreasing BN activity. An option could be that BN applications open every 2 or even 3 months instead of every month, decreasing the number of BN's being added. Also, I believe that mod quality is more of a guideline to good BN's, rather than having a lot of kudosu. Still, the 180 as a minimum (and it should become a hard minimum, not something you should have but is not required) is a good indicator.
I think developing a system for that is unnecessary. All it's required is being open enough on both sides (BN and management) to discuss this in private and sort it out.inspectorscout wrote:
Then, I think there should be a system where BN's can put their status. If they are inactive, have some kind of google doc or website where everyone can see that and follow that. If their status is inactive for x number of months, remove them. That way you get a visual of who is currently active and who isn't. This means that BN's can have real life issues for a few months, but if they stay in that situation, they will have to reapply for BN
That's reall subjective. On CtB we don't have a WYSIWYG editor, it doesn't even show what notes become hyperdashes, so it all comes to testing, testing and testing. Testing the current map, testing the changes you might propose. Depending on the state of the map, I have taken up to 1 hour modding a single diff. Extrapolate to a single mapset, extrapolate to the 8 mods you propose. And that's not considering recheck and stuff. And yeah, you could say "but focus on nearly ready mapsets". We don't have that much in CtB, just so you make an idea, 4 maps were ranked in August/July, 7 on June, 6 in May, 2 in April and I think I could go on...inspectorscout wrote:
Lastly, I believe that the minimum amount of mods done every month should be higher (please don't kill me BN's). 3-5 mods every month; that is something you can do in 3 hours or something. If you raise that amount to something higher, hell, let's say 8, and you make that amount clear to all players looking to join the BN, there will be less applicants for sure, while giving a boost to the modding done (because, to be honest, when I mod maps, all the other maps are from the same 20 people).
In one way, I agree with this, as it doesn't increase activityStefan wrote:
I somehow would perfer to not add any new BN members unless a mode requires more of them. Then again I guess modders won't get chosen by the mode they regulary mod, idunno
Isn't the lack of communication one of the things that makes this system not work properly?ZiRoX wrote:
I think developing a system for that is unnecessary. All it's required is being open enough on both sides (BN and management) to discuss this in private and sort it out.
I was talking mainly about std, but since I do not know a lot about other gamemodes, I can't say something about those. Maybe split up BN's into 4 tiers, 1 for each gamemode. Those that are hybrids just belong to several parts of the BN. If clear rules are there for each gamemode seperately (for some gamemodes they have to be more strict since those are more active), and clear rules for hybrids, too, It should be easier to follow everything up. Of course, this is the opinion of a newbie, but I would like to see some changes anyway, at least to change the mentality of modders and BN's alike. They should be more of a team again, because making them operate as just a single person guarantees problems.ZiRoX wrote:
That's reall subjective. On CtB we don't have a WYSIWYG editor, it doesn't even show what notes become hyperdashes, so it all comes to testing, testing and testing. Testing the current map, testing the changes you might propose. Depending on the state of the map, I have taken up to 1 hour modding a single diff. Extrapolate to a single mapset, extrapolate to the 8 mods you propose. And that's not considering recheck and stuff. And yeah, you could say "but focus on nearly ready mapsets". We don't have that much in CtB, just so you make an idea, 4 maps were ranked in August/July, 7 on June, 6 in May, 2 in April and I think I could go on...
Look at the mode-specific forumsRegraz wrote:
Yeah, I hope at least there could be a reference list to show the main field(s) of a certain BN. (Though there are no strict restrictions of "mode-specific" BNs)
It would be really more convenience to both the mappers and BNs.
Then you're most likely not doing a good job.inspectorscout wrote:
Lastly, I believe that the minimum amount of mods done every month should be higher (please don't kill me BN's). 3-5 mods every month; that is something you can do in 3 hours or something. If you raise that amount to something higher, hell, let's say 8, and you make that amount clear to all players looking to join the BN, there will be less applicants for sure, while giving a boost to the modding done (because, to be honest, when I mod maps, all the other maps are from the same 20 people).
There are lists of mode-capable BNs in the respective subforums. In the old BAT system, the Wiki showed which mode each BAT was in charge of (similar to what the QAT Wiki page looks today). I proposed to return to that template, but showing b]what modes each BN felt proficient at[/b]. Got a NO shoved in my face.Regraz wrote:
Yeah, I hope at least there could be a reference list to show the main field(s) of a certain BN. (Though there are no strict restrictions of "mode-specific" BNs)
It would be really more convenience to both the mappers and BNs.
So did IZiRoX wrote:
There are lists of mode-capable BNs in the respective subforums. In the old BAT system, the Wiki showed which mode each BAT was in charge of (similar to what the QAT Wiki page looks today). I proposed to return to that template, but showing b]what modes each BN felt proficient at[/b]. Got a NO shoved in my face.Regraz wrote:
Yeah, I hope at least there could be a reference list to show the main field(s) of a certain BN. (Though there are no strict restrictions of "mode-specific" BNs)
It would be really more convenience to both the mappers and BNs.
Cherry Blossom wrote:
Learn what is fairness and stop circlejerking.
Cherry Blossom wrote:
Learn what is fairness
Cherry Blossom wrote:
and stop circlejerking.
looking at you o!m :>Cherry Blossom wrote:
stop circlejerking.
You probably needed 1-2 more mods per month, given your kudosu count. And, if I did get the formula right (similar to that of the old BNG), constant activity was benefited since each month had it's own logarithm (e.g. it's better to have 6-6-6 mods than 8-5-5). Less speculation, it would be good if the formula was made public.Ayu wrote:
Can I still add my 2 cents to the circlejerk or something because I just really wanted to say that I got denied for BN for not being active enough like half a year ago, although I did at least 4 mods a month or something.
Or just everyone's scoreZiRoX wrote:
You probably needed 1-2 more mods per month, given your kudosu count. And, if I did get the formula right (similar to that of the old BNG), constant activity was benefited since each month had it's own logarithm (e.g. it's better to have 6-6-6 mods than 8-5-5). Less speculation, it would be good if the formula was made public.Ayu wrote:
Can I still add my 2 cents to the circlejerk or something because I just really wanted to say that I got denied for BN for not being active enough like half a year ago, although I did at least 4 mods a month or something.
The cause of the limit isn't server load. Don't bring the wrath of the superiors plzReditum wrote:
I cant get mad because like all of the discussion is relevant but like meh.
While i agree with the points made, especially about the BN having to accomodate to limitations of the system, it still is mega frustrating that I cant rejoin the team even though I was literally one of the highest ranked on the team.
Like its totes my fault for quitting I guess but meh.
Id personally like to see more progress being made to make the limitations more leniant. I know that the 6 map limit was made to reduce server stress, but I think we should instead look at ways to better improve the servers so that more players can contribute. Its a little unfortunate that many people are stuck in the "oops showed up too late" kinda thing when they sometimes exceed the quality of some members of the team and would have strong and rmeaningful contributions.
I will literally fucking do what I can to pay for a new server for osu! just to increase the limit so qualified and dedicated members can have the ability to contribute in the ranking lf maps, especially since the goal is to achieve a community based modding system.
Ive been having a really shitty few days and im trying not to sound like a whiny bitch, but uhhhh, yeah.
I really want to see more of this, but the current system doesn't put enough of an incentive towards bubble-popping or checking bubbled maps for this to be effective. Additionally, there seems to be some social stigma towards bubble-popping between BN's.MrSergio wrote:
Since there is a daily limit for the maps the BNs can rank why not starting to mod already bubbled maps?
What I mean is, that since you can't do much to qualify new maps and since there are already a bunch of bubbled maps, why not having those bubbled mapsets checked by more BNs?
Who said that once a BN makes a check he/she needs to place a sort of icon or whatever. If more of them check the mapset before actually getting it qualified there are less chances to get it DQ'd. If I remember correctly, last time I looked at the formula for the BN score there was also a value for the contribution on the mapset (modding) which means that you can keep your score even by helping out with one mapset (I'm referring to the last version of it, the one posted by p3n)
*Just mod like a robot, you don't have to know how to map or be good at modding. Sorry I have to write it u.u*Ayu wrote:
it'd be helpful if the system was based on quality not quantity
Didn't Loctav gave a warning of punishment to that kind of behavior?monstrata wrote:
Currently, if you bubble-pop a map, you are obligated to rebubble. I say "obligation" because you don't have to rebubble, but it's considered rude because by bubble-popping you are kind of sending an (unintentional) message to the other BN(s) involved in bubbling. For example, something like "You aren't doing your job well enough because I found these errors etc..." It's fine if a QAT points these problems out because QAT's and BN's are two different groups, and QAT's are "higher up". It's more understandable if it's a QAT. Buf if it's a BN, it can send the wrong message, and it can also lead to "more-experienced" BN's bullying newer BN's who they view as incompetent (and believe me, I've seen this kind of stuff happen).
As far as I remember, there weren't any issues with rebubbles and reranking a map if the "errors" are considered as very minimal where it doesn't change the map drastically. Its a minor setback, but nothing to shed tears on. But now it seems quite shunned upon and leaves some mappers in the dark for a long while before they get another BN to recheck it properly. Just breaking a bubble with a "you suck at modding" attitude is just asking for another flamewar where it shouldn't exist. Especially when the one that breaks the bubble only pops it but never bothers to recheck and replace it.monstrata wrote:
Currently, if you bubble-pop a map, you are obligated to rebubble. I say "obligation" because you don't have to rebubble, but it's considered rude because by bubble-popping you are kind of sending an (unintentional) message to the other BN(s) involved in bubbling. For example, something like "You aren't doing your job well enough because I found these errors etc..." It's fine if a QAT points these problems out because QAT's and BN's are two different groups, and QAT's are "higher up". It's more understandable if it's a QAT. Buf if it's a BN, it can send the wrong message, and it can also lead to "more-experienced" BN's bullying newer BN's who they view as incompetent (and believe me, I've seen this kind of stuff happen).
yes you should know more about the ctb community, see if there is one bn of CtB mode is willing to rank that map, and imagine if no one rank your map, what will you do.Cherry Blossom wrote:
the story of the CTB map qualified by someone not experienced at all in CTB mode), and that exemple really shows that we need more BNs for this mode.
Honestly if BNs make a fuss about their bubbles being popped and start to call other BNs names then I don't know what to say. Get your shit straight, you might've done a mistake, it happens. There is absolutely no objective reason to put the blame on a BN who popped your bubble, it's part of their job too. This whole thing should not be.monstrata wrote:
text
I heard from certain sources that BNs are now meticulously selected by the higher ups by judging the quality of their mods and stuff. Also heard they've rejected quite a few applications due to them not meeting the required standards (and accepted none so far, over the span of a few months). I assume the same was done even earlier with QATs, so this in theory shouldn't be an issue anymore as they wouldn't accept mediocre modders who put quantity over quality in the BN/QAT ranks.whymeman wrote:
more text
That's it.PyaKura wrote:
Honestly if BNs make a fuss about their bubbles being popped and start to call other BNs names then I don't know what to say. Get your shit straight, you might've done a mistake, it happens. There is absolutely no objective reason to put the blame on a BN who popped your bubble, it's part of their job too. This whole thing should not be.
and yes, you are right here, that's not a secretPyaKura wrote:
I heard from certain sources that BNs are now meticulously selected by the higher ups by judging the quality of their mods and stuff. Also heard they've rejected quite a few applications due to them not meeting the required standards (and accepted none so far, over the span of a few months). I assume the same was done even earlier with QATs, so this in theory shouldn't be an issue anymore as they wouldn't accept mediocre modders who put quantity over quality in the BN/QAT ranks.
Yes I realize that is vague as f*ck but I have reasons to believe this is not far from what's really happening.
The problem is, at least from what i'm seeing, what happens after the issues in the mapset have been fixed. The whole bubble-popping/rebubbling process is quite awkward atm when it shouldn't be as bubble-popping is also a part of the job too. I've yet to bubble pop any map, and sadly, I doubt i'll ever do so with the current systemPyaKura wrote:
text
That was the last month which used the 15 votes by staff and other BNs to be considered to enter. That needed more than just the score, they needed votes of trusts.monstrata wrote:
Either way, there was obviously a major change in the selection system because when was the last time 24 people were accepted into the BNG? lolPyaKura wrote:
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More like this system was implemented poorly and seems rushed tbh.Baraatje123 wrote:
As long as the BN ranking doesn't exist, this can't really go automatically
hey, what's done is done. After the new major release of web and game, better fix and rebuild everything, even the progress is quite slow, but sure. (Suggestion :3/)Mercurial wrote:
More like this system was implemented poorly and seems rushed tbh.Baraatje123 wrote:
As long as the BN ranking doesn't exist, this can't really go automatically
I haven't been here for a long time while all the changes happened, but I can tell that not much changed since 2012 and onwards. People get a status of priviledge, then right after that some of them get cocky and don't dojackshitstating that they are "busy" for whatever reason, only modding maps at their own accord. The same happened with MATs and BATs.
I really hope whoever works in this project that makes it better for anyone...
Things that have been done wrong need to be fixed before moving forward. Keeping things moving forward and let wrong things left behind will cause more problemssorry for my bad english if you notice ;w;
As long as it doesn't turn into another "speed over quality" incident again, then that's fine. But one thing which has to be considered still is that usually around 3 months, a good amount of BNs and QATs don't have the free time to keep up with the workload and would either be on hiatus or forced to quit due to personal life stuff. Usually when that happens, there would be "we need more BNs and QATs!" complaints as people would look at 4 or so pages of bubbles. When those times happen, consideration needs to be there on how to handle it.PyaKura wrote:
I heard from certain sources that BNs are now meticulously selected by the higher ups by judging the quality of their mods and stuff. Also heard they've rejected quite a few applications due to them not meeting the required standards (and accepted none so far, over the span of a few months). I assume the same was done even earlier with QATs, so this in theory shouldn't be an issue anymore as they wouldn't accept mediocre modders who put quantity over quality in the BN/QAT ranks.
Yes I realize that is vague as f*ck but I have reasons to believe this is not far from what's really happening.
How is it Thursday in our time zone CDFAReditum wrote:
https://osu.ppy.sh/forum/p/4495311
Happy Thursday!
Sure, when are you gonna unveil the new system in its entirety? Ever since the BNG ranking was abolished it's been all talk and no solid numbers or names of anything until these kicks today. But we all want to see the numbers.ztrot wrote:
Then simply ask? we have stated we are here willing to talk just tell us what is on your mind.
Glad you asked as you can see the post in the beatmap management forum that post will be updated and all the hard numbers will be there! Now mind you we are using this as a base for activity the automated system is not in place we have tired other formats but remember what we have been saying from the start all of these systems have been more or less tests, as we get ever closer to FINALIZED format we will keep you updated.xxdeathx wrote:
How is it Thursday in our time zone CDFAReditum wrote:
https://osu.ppy.sh/forum/p/4495311
Happy Thursday!Sure, when are you gonna unveil the new system in its entirety? Ever since the BNG ranking was abolished it's been all talk and no solid numbers or names of anything until these kicks today. But we all want to see the numbers.ztrot wrote:
Then simply ask? we have stated we are here willing to talk just tell us what is on your mind.
We are not done yetRaiden wrote:
My, my. I expected a good clean but not THIS BIG O_o
Happy Thursday and good job people!
Don't eat me please D:Stefan wrote:
Finally.
why opt out when just not taking part yields the same result?Yauxo wrote:
Finally². Only took me 3 month to get out of that group, thats like no time at all \:D/ /s.
Seriously though, I kinda want to see if this system ever gets to the point where it's actually balanced. Would be a shame if it wouldnt ever reach that. Also, why exactly isnt there a way to opt out of the group yet? I dont quite get why people are forced to stay in there whenever they first enter.
Because people sometimes feel useful, but they don't want to have to charge with some responsabilities on their back.ztrot wrote:
why opt out when just not taking part yields the same result?
And the MAT with their purple name was unique for the time, maybe bring that back sometime in the future?Mercurial wrote:
Nominators are MATs without a title, which for me it's worse than MATs.
If you're a BN - or want to become one - for a different name colour and title at the forums then you're probably wrong in the team imo.Mercurial wrote:
Nominators are MATs without a title, which for me it's worse than MATs.
30% to be exact out of the 106Raiden wrote:
Around 13 more got removed which leaves BN to the number of 76 if I'm not mistaken out of 10X. Around 25-30% of the BNG removed
Huge, really huge purge I must admit lol
Not actually true. Some BATs in the past actually requested for some downtime or when they feel they have to leave. If we played that "waiting game" back then, you would see maybe 100 or so Alumni. There's also some members who completely quit which has to be considered.Stefan wrote:
I guess it's somewhere discussable to say "I don't want to be a BN anymore, I want to leave it". You just to be inactive at all if you don't wish to be part of it, that's how it always worked since the newBAT addition.
We've already requested this multiple times and nobody (staff) wanted to change this. There were multiple reasons given (such as QAT limitations) while we had tons of BNs, I dont see them changing anything with less BNs now.whymeman wrote:
Another thing I've noticed that I forgot to say. When there was a lot of BNs active, it also put a lot of stress with the bubble / qualify limit that created this "rank race" problem. Even with the purge, will this limit be the same or re-balanced to the new activity count?