If I could 98% this that'd be some good pp. Also, look at my fucking hit error window. I hate -13 to +7.
forum
How do you play HR?
posted
Total Posts
118
At least I would gain some PP from a 190pp play. Wellp, 108 UR 96.4% -12 to +6. Acc too fucking hard.
That's not even remotely correct.Mahoganytooth wrote:
DT at top level is "This song is much shorter now but also nearly impossibru so see if you can keep lucky long enough to FC because its only like 1 minute"
SUCK IT HR I BEAT YOU
You haven't offered a better description. I don't think anyone could do something like the ending of Seven on DT consistently, or Catastrophe.Narrill wrote:
That's not even remotely correct.Mahoganytooth wrote:
DT at top level is "This song is much shorter now but also nearly impossibru so see if you can keep lucky long enough to FC because its only like 1 minute"
Why do you think there needs to be a description at all? There's nothing inherently different about high level DT play, so there's no need for a categorical distinction. The closest you'll get is "short but fast maps with low CS."
And really, implying that 500+ combos at 270 bpm happen by accident is incredibly insulting to high level DT players. They don't, and the vast majority of high-level DT players maintain respectable accuracies. Don't make the mistake of thinking that good plays are just lucky plays, because they aren't.
And really, implying that 500+ combos at 270 bpm happen by accident is incredibly insulting to high level DT players. They don't, and the vast majority of high-level DT players maintain respectable accuracies. Don't make the mistake of thinking that good plays are just lucky plays, because they aren't.
And there's no reason to believe they're both? How does holding respectable accuracies have to do with whether or not you can fc? At that level don't you expect everyone to be able to maintain good accuracy no matter the map?Narrill wrote:
Don't make the mistake of thinking that good plays are just lucky plays, because they aren't.
Why not?Narrill wrote:
Why do you think there needs to be a description at all?
In what sense? Compared to high level HR play, or compared to mid-level DT play? Either way, I disagree. High level DT play is generally short bursts of incredibly difficult extremely high BPM maps, as far as I've seen. Mid-level DT play tends to just be PP farm because of the simple patterns and higher OD. High-level HR is more about consistency on relatively longer maps.Narrill wrote:
There's nothing inherently different about high level DT play
Nobody can consistently FC the highest level DT maps. That's why I said "lucky"Narrill wrote:
And really, implying that 500+ combos at 270 bpm happen by accident is incredibly insulting to high level DT players. They don't, and the vast majority of high-level DT players maintain respectable accuracies. Don't make the mistake of thinking that good plays are just lucky plays, because they aren't.
It might not be luck, but whatever it is, it's the same reason I can't always hit the jumps in, for example, DT Sattelite. Sometimes I can hit them, sometimes I can't. More often than not, I will not hold combo throughout the entire map. If I was to FC, I'd call that a lucky play, wouldn't you? If you were able to FC something that took you many attempts?
Of course it's not a fucking accident, you only get those combos at that level if you're really good, but at the same time, it's likely you have probably failed far more often than you've succeeded.
Overall, DT requires less consistency than HR because the maps you play are generally going to be shorter, but a lot more speed, because DT.
If you think I'm wrong, you come up with a better description. You're the one with 5k pp here, you know higher level play a lot better than I do, so why not share some of that knowledge instead of just trying to debunk what I'm saying?
I would call any fc a lucky play if you can't do it semi consistently.
So if i cant fc TBB (too bad i cant ;_;) every 10 tries then my FC isnt considered valid because it was a "lucky play"?Kheldragar wrote:
I would call any fc a lucky play if you can't do it semi consistently.
Why would it be considered invalid?
It's valid because you fc'd it.HK_ wrote:
So if i cant fc TBB (too bad i cant ;_;) every 10 tries then my FC isnt considered valid because it was a "lucky play"?Kheldragar wrote:
I would call any fc a lucky play if you can't do it semi consistently.
Of course it is valid as a score but what i meant is valid/invalid for you/me/whoever because it was a lucky fcKheldragar wrote:
It's valid because you fc'd it.
You were skilled enough to FC something, and you followed through and FCed it. Of course it's valid. It's only invalid if you cheated or something.
Making consistent FCs the norm means that you're expecting that the player can hold an infinite combo on the map he fc'd which is obviously nonsense.
Personally I can't copy all of my topplays right away but when I've done all that stuff people are recommending for a good performance(slept well, no stress for studies imminent, well hydrated, having fun) and I'm on a run I will be able to copy or surpass them. Even the "lucky plays".
Another thing to notice when you're re-fcing things is that you're usually caring more about accuracy to give some peppypoint-sense to your doing. This also means that you're spending time on patterns in the map that you can't read properly or whatever and just got through with a few 100s in your initial FC.
Trying to ace every single pattern you had trouble with will cause a lot of misses and a lot of non-FC plays on the map.
Personally I can't copy all of my topplays right away but when I've done all that stuff people are recommending for a good performance(slept well, no stress for studies imminent, well hydrated, having fun) and I'm on a run I will be able to copy or surpass them. Even the "lucky plays".
Another thing to notice when you're re-fcing things is that you're usually caring more about accuracy to give some peppypoint-sense to your doing. This also means that you're spending time on patterns in the map that you can't read properly or whatever and just got through with a few 100s in your initial FC.
Trying to ace every single pattern you had trouble with will cause a lot of misses and a lot of non-FC plays on the map.
I know why you said it, but the two aren't the same. You don't just retry over and over until chance lets you FC something, you make a concerted effort to hit all the notes and eventually succeed because, through intense concentration and willpower, you managed to do a slightly better job of hitting all the notes. Luck is chance. There is very little chance present in an FC. You cannot equate the two because they are categorically different.Mahoganytooth wrote:
Nobody can consistently FC the highest level DT maps. That's why I said "lucky"
Obviously the trends you refer to are there, DT maps are shorter and require more aim, speed, and reading, and HR maps are longer and require more consistency and accuracy, but there's no point saying "the DT end-game is like this and the HR end-game is like this" because players don't just dive into either of the two. They work their way up slowly and develop those different skill patterns as they go, and the end result is that what might look to you like a mindless 270 bpm clusterfuck of notes just looks like a regular map to hvick, and what looks to you like an endless gauntlet of winding cs6.5 streams looks like regular map to _index. There's literally never a need to reduce an endgame playstyle to that sort of tagline because no player who actually participates in that endgame sees it that way.Mahoganytooth wrote:
High level DT play is generally short bursts of incredibly difficult extremely high BPM maps, as far as I've seen. Mid-level DT play tends to just be PP farm because of the simple patterns and higher OD. High-level HR is more about consistency on relatively longer maps.
To a degree, sure, but everyone has a point where the map is simply too hard to maintain good acc on. We wouldn't see 99+% plays if high-level DT players were really just spraying and praying.Kheldragar wrote:
At that level don't you expect everyone to be able to maintain good accuracy no matter the map?
That's actually what I call luck if there's a pattern I cannot do consistently but just one time I happened to do for an fc.Narrill wrote:
You don't just retry over and over until chance lets you FC something, you make a concerted effort to hit all the notes and eventually succeed because, through intense concentration and willpower, you managed to do a slightly better job of hitting all the notes.
What about for the benefit of the people who don't participate in the endgame? People exist before the top 1k, you know.Narrill wrote:
There's literally never a need to reduce an endgame playstyle to that sort of tagline because no player who actually participates in that endgame sees it that way..
Yeah, you get a lucky run where you didn't miss. Your skills stayed the same throughout but the outcome was different each time.Narrill wrote:
I know why you said it, but the two aren't the same. You don't just retry over and over until chance lets you FC something, you make a concerted effort to hit all the notes and eventually succeed because, through intense concentration and willpower, you managed to do a slightly better job of hitting all the notes
dude, I couldn't just do my top rank on demand. I don't know what you call that, but I call that a lucky run.Narrill wrote:
There is very little chance present in an FC.
Regardless thanks for sharing actual thoughts instead of just saying I'm wrong.
That depends severely on the map though. I don't have a problem with fc'ing Dadai within a few tries but there are some of my top ranks of lower star diff(3,5ish) that I find noticeably harder to re-fc(I even gave up on some of them when i tried to improve my acc) maybe cause they have specific patterns that are harder for me than jumptriplespam.Mahoganytooth wrote:
dude, I couldn't just do my top rank on demand. I don't know what you call that, but I call that a lucky run.
On the same page:
When you're sightreading a map that is hard for you you tend to do very well sometimes and turn out to make a play that's almost a fc. Then you want to nail it, try again and fail miserably. That's pretty much the same thing as Narrill mentioned. In the first case you weren't caring what's happening you just focused on every circle approaching you and played it to the best of your spontaneous ability. After that you're playing with another objective AND you're actually noticing how hard the map was and which parts were difficult in particular. That's the same kind of a change of mental state as the DT-player has when he finally scores that "lucky play". Yes, you can say that it's "by chance" but you have no way to prove that the player is unable to summon his A-game either - in any case the player is capable of doing the fc with his A-game.
3.5 stars is like AR8 though so of course its harder.
If people were able to summon their A-game on demand then they'd always be able to FC on the second try or so. Not take upwards of 30 attempts to get the FC.
If people were able to summon their A-game on demand then they'd always be able to FC on the second try or so. Not take upwards of 30 attempts to get the FC.
What's the benefit? Lower-ranked players can just start playing mods, and eventually they'll stick with the ones they like.Mahoganytooth wrote:
What about for the benefit of the people who don't participate in the endgame? People exist before the top 1k, you know.
The point is that the taglines fail to give an indication of what the endgame is actually like. "Short bursts of intense difficulty" isn't accurate because to a real DT player they aren't short bursts of intense difficulty, they're just normal maps. The tagline isn't a descriptor, it's an irrelevant caricature that succeeds only in describing what the endgame looks like to those who aren't a part of it. What purpose does that serve?
But it isn't luck, you just played better that run for reasons that are complex but almost entirely under your control. You can't just throw retries at a map and expect to FC it, you have to have that special run where you actually played better.Mahoganytooth wrote:
Yeah, you get a lucky run where you didn't miss. Your skills stayed the same throughout but the outcome was different each time.
Same to you.Mahoganytooth wrote:
Regardless thanks for sharing actual thoughts instead of just saying I'm wrong.
That's because most people aren't good with self-manipulation.Mahoganytooth wrote:
3.5 stars is like AR8 though so of course its harder.
If people were able to summon their A-game on demand then they'd always be able to FC on the second try or so. Not take upwards of 30 attempts to get the FC.
And AR8 shouldn't be harder to fc for me cause it's what I'm playing the majority of the time and there are enough AR8 maps I can fc over and over again.
I've thrown retries at maps just to have that special run - see all of my top 30. All other things equal (mood etc.) it seems like that run appears once every while with a small percent chance of happening - that's why I think it's luck.
Mid-level DT is completely different from high-level DT, though. Mid-level DT is just hards and easy insanes with ridiculously easy patterns. DTing 3-4 star maps is a completely different from DTing 4.5-5.3* maps. HR? Idk. I don't play HR. Yet.Narrill wrote:
What's the benefit? Lower-ranked players can just start playing mods, and eventually they'll stick with the ones they like.Mahoganytooth wrote:
What about for the benefit of the people who don't participate in the endgame? People exist before the top 1k, you know.
Personally, I call that luck. I'll agree to disagree with you on that.Narrill wrote:
But it isn't luck, you just played better that run for reasons that are complex but almost entirely under your control. You can't just throw retries at a map and expect to FC it, you have to have that special run where you actually played better.
That's not a categorical distinction though, there's nothing fundamentally different between the two. I don't know how else to say it. You might need to be better at certain things to play one or the other, but the manner in which you play isn't different.Mahoganytooth wrote:
Mid-level DT is completely different from high-level DT, though. Mid-level DT is just hards and easy insanes with ridiculously easy patterns. DTing 3-4 star maps is a completely different from DTing 4.5-5.3* maps.
There's no fundamental difference at any level of osu!. You're literally just clicking circles no matter how good you are.
Mid level DT and High level DT are completely different. Most DT maps I've seen at my level are either "Singletap really fast basic stuff and there might be a triple or two" or "this is a collection of jumps" And they tend to be like 120-150bpm nomod, and you're guaranteed not to run into streams at all.
DT stuff at my level is literally just average speed nomod stuff.
Meanwhile DT pros have to do stuff like 270bpm jumps and streams, playing maps that are around 180bpm nomod. You don't find many 270 nomod maps.
Mid level DT and High level DT are completely different. Most DT maps I've seen at my level are either "Singletap really fast basic stuff and there might be a triple or two" or "this is a collection of jumps" And they tend to be like 120-150bpm nomod, and you're guaranteed not to run into streams at all.
DT stuff at my level is literally just average speed nomod stuff.
Meanwhile DT pros have to do stuff like 270bpm jumps and streams, playing maps that are around 180bpm nomod. You don't find many 270 nomod maps.
The category is DT hards/easy insanes vs hard insanes/extras
So you agree with me then.Mahoganytooth wrote:
There's no fundamental difference at any level of osu!.
E m i
medium rank (4 digit range) DT aim farm maps: 180-220 bpm
medium-high rank (3 digit range) DT aim farm maps: 212-245 bpm
high rank (2 digit range) DT aim farm maps: 220-255 bpm
top rank (you know) DT aim farm maps: 234-277.5 bpm
medium-high rank (3 digit range) DT aim farm maps: 212-245 bpm
high rank (2 digit range) DT aim farm maps: 220-255 bpm
top rank (you know) DT aim farm maps: 234-277.5 bpm
no one does that for pp because 255-300bpm on 4-5 stars is too hard for the pp it givesKheldragar wrote:
DT hards
No, because you're saying that there's no real difference between mid-level DT and high-level DT.Narrill wrote:
So you agree with me then.Mahoganytooth wrote:
There's no fundamental difference at any level of osu!.
there's nothing fundamentally different between the two.When you FC Eien Friends DT as easy as some crap 4* "easy insane" (let's say for example Koigokoro) then you have a point. Until then, there is a HUGE diffrence betwin high level DT and mid level DT. It's almost same diffrence as with HR. But HR might be in some cases harder.
I think there are maps which can be cleared by human with DT but cannot be cleared with HR. I might be wrong tho, didnt went into high level HR plays, stopped at ar9.1 od8 max.
Guys, do you have any idea what the word fundamental means?
ZenithPhantasm
PROGRESS
Ohwait more singletap maps
Ohwait more singletap maps
rrtyui fc'd remote control dthd like something like 4 times within 45 minutes. How lucky does that seem to you?Mahoganytooth wrote:
Nobody can consistently FC the highest level DT maps. That's why I said "lucky"
http://puu.sh/gp4TC/738f0d0992.jpg
ruruchi is an alien so that doesnt countfelicitousname wrote:
rrtyui fc'd remote control dthd like something like 4 times within 45 minutes. How lucky does that seem to you?Mahoganytooth wrote:
Nobody can consistently FC the highest level DT maps. That's why I said "lucky"
http://puu.sh/gp4TC/738f0d0992.jpg