Riince you simply pick individual examples that seem to justify your points and you fail to see the system and the concept as a whole.
it didnt, we are trying to show you why it's stupid to completely abolish HT as a ranked mod because nomod vs DT has exactly the same problem.Riince wrote:
when did this stop being about HT
im talking about the very best players, their skill level is the only applicable variable when talking about plays that end up on scoreboards. Whether a map goes from 130 to 195 bpm with DT, or whether it is already that modless, or whatever doesn't really matter, scoreboards on maps like that are usually going to saturate.Drezi wrote:
omg your difficulty is not linear argument is wrong on so many levels
HT -> nomod -> DT
it's not linear thus the difficulty on the same map will increase exponentially and thus the difference will be bigger the higher you go, thus you can see that nomod->DT is the bigger difference, not HT->nomod on the same map. If HT is the same speed as nomod of an other map, than it's the same relative point, except DT is still a bigger increase in speed.... your point is 100% nonsense.
I see this, 5 is a smaller number that hundreds, but lets be relativesilmarilen wrote:
it is SO MANY TIMES MORE COMMON THAT A DT SCORE THAT IS MORE IMPRESSIVE THAN THE NOMOD SCORE GETS PUSHED OUT OF TOP50
when are you going to see this
Correct. Because getting a half combo 95% on Baby Sweet Berry Love (TV Size) [Vicho's Snoozefest] is not deserving of being above a modless SS. You can say this about more maps than where its not the case, even if there are a LOT of maps where its not the case, relatively speaking, its less.Drezi wrote:
according to you:
HT x1,33 = nomod -> HT pushes out nomod -> "UNACCEPTABLE IN 100% cases".
nomod x1,5 = DT -> nomod pushes out DT -> "yeah sure, it's only a few cases where it's bad".
Drezi wrote:
omg your difficulty is not linear argument is wrong on so many levels
HT -> nomod -> DT
it's not linear thus the difficulty on the same map will increase exponentially and thus the difference will be bigger the higher you go, thus you can see that nomod->DT is the bigger difference, not HT->nomod on the same map. If HT is the same speed as nomod of an other map, than it's the same relative point, except DT is still a bigger increase in speed.... your point is 100% nonsense.
just like how a 200 combo on scarlet freedom black material [holy shit it's gay pony] is not supposed to go over a HT fc.Riince wrote:
Correct. Because getting a half combo 95% on Baby Sweet Berry Love (TV Size) [Vicho's Snoozefest] is not deserving of being above a modless SS. You can say this about more maps than where its not the case, even if there are a LOT of maps where its not the case, relatively speaking, its less.
And now were right back to where i started, Like I said, maps like this should have scoreboards where the best people are competing, people who cant compete shouldnt be taking spots away from people who can, plain and simple. Unless were talking about ranking Tenshi or something, the best players are not going to be competing in HT scores.silmarilen wrote:
just like how a 200 combo on scarlet freedom black material [holy shit it's gay pony] is not supposed to go over a HT fc.
and if you say otherwise you're basically telling us your point is bad.
No HT score where the map is so hard that only the best players are going to set decent scores on it is going to be worth more than a nomod score, i truly believe this, playing at a far level lower [again, the gap between 260 bpm and 195 bpm is incredible] even if its at high consistency isn't more impressiveDrezi wrote:
HT->nomod is 1,33 speed increase.
DT is 1,5 speed increase.
If no HT score can be better than a nomod score, it would mean no nomod score can be better than a DT score (ESPECIALLY since diff isn't linear), so unrank nomod too.
every easy normal hard out there, and quite a few insanes have it where a high acc normal speed fc beats some 95% half-combo play in impressiveness.silmarilen wrote:
there isnt a single map like that
unless you can give me an example of a map where comboing 90% of the map with DT is less impressive than nomod fc.Okay, buff DT slightly to fix a problem that affects the minority of maps where this is happening regularly, fair enough, im all for it. The game will be better for it. DT is the hardest mod after all
Drezi wrote:
Riince you simply pick individual examples that seem to justify your points and you fail to see the system and the concept as a whole.
Drezi wrote:
you seem to fail at basic concepts of logic, really.
whether the map is harder or not is irrelevant in that example, the score is just more impressive so should be worth more. Neither the DT or the modless on such maps are going anywhere near the level of play on maps where HT is an issue, so even drawing the comparison is sillysilmarilen wrote:
if you cant even beat a score worth 0.3x the nomod score then you suck and arent competing at the top anyway.
and no, just because you dont have the patience to wait for a hitcircle to close doesnt mean the map is harder on nomod.
The map would then become a part of the minority of maps where DT being underweighted is a problem, and become another reason to buff DT's worth a bit.CXu wrote:
Imagine Image Material being a 195bpm map, and that all HT scores on said map are with nomod, and all nomod plays on said map are DT scores.
Would you still have a problem with it?
if you take out the HT scores and said score is on the top 50 for a map where most likely all the best players are competing on because its a hard ranked map, then yeah, they by definition are competing, whether some guy somes over and beats his score by fcing a map where streams go from being doable properly by a few dozen people, to being doable by thousands and thousands of people, then that's ruining the competition.silmarilen wrote:
if you cant even beat a score worth 0.3x the nomod score then you suck and arent competing at the top anyway.
yeah, and those maps where people are getting good DT scores that arent getting on the scoreboard when they should be are grounds for a change to DT, yet its the minority of maps where the mod is applicable, so changing the mod massively and completely like what should happen to HT is less justified.Drezi wrote:
same can be said for nomod on EVERY map, that can be passed on DT, but people can't FC with it.
read it again, EVERY MAP you know what that means? YEAH IT'S A LOT OF MAPS THAT CAN BE PASSED BUT NOT FC-D WITH DT.Drezi wrote:
same can be said for nomod on EVERY map, that can be passed on DT, but people can't FC with it.
except those nomod scores come with 1.0 against 1.12, unlike 0.3 of HT vs 1.0.......
This whole argument happened because people can't understand this.Riince wrote:
Because it's all relative
Often the absolute values matter more than the relative ones.Tess wrote:
This whole argument happened because people can't understand this.Riince wrote:
Because it's all relative
Tess wrote:
Also aside from HT I wonder what others think of the scoring I proposed. I thought it was a pretty solid way of weighing one mod against the other.
Riince wrote:
Spun-out should be 1.0x because no real advantage to using it anyway. On easy maps you're penalized enough by the spin being abysmally slow, on harder maps no competent players have an issue with notes coming after spinners.
As a player that is forced to use Spun-Out due to a physical disability in the arm/hand i'm holding my tablet pen in preventing me from being able to even get 200 RPM on spinners as a rank 20k, i would love if Spun-Out didn't give me -5% pp on every score i ever get. It really hurts my top performances by alot. Not only that, using Spun-Out, i will never be able to get into top 50s on maps even if my Acc % happened to be better, as Spun-Out also gives -10% score reduction.Tess wrote:
SO should be 1.0x because what Riince said.
The sliders are what makes that map difficult. I guess changing the way FL is calculated on sliders due to visibility would make sense, but even so, flashlight is mostly memorization, not physical skill. Don't take that the wrong way, all I am saying is that with enough time, any map that can be full-comboed can be done with flashlight. The buff it gives can't be too big imo.Yauxo wrote:
Dunno if that's been suggested already, but Iam not gonna read through 100+ pages.
Can we give FL some sort of lenght scaling?
I was kinda suprised that the FL score by rrtyui on https://osu.ppy.sh/b/541990?m=0 only gave 235pp, which is pretty much nothing.
I know that FL gives a big bonus on aim and that the map apparently isnt all that aim-y, but it is long and there is a shitload of things to remember, which makes it extremely difficult.
In general, more objects are obviously more difficult to remember. Easy/Normal would probably still give the usual FL pp, Hard a bit more, Insane and Extra would receive a bonus. Doesnt sound too bad to me.
ppdiff = 393.16 - 392.63 = 0.53handsome wrote:
do slider 100s really play that much of an impact such that they have a higher penalty than circle 100s even on higher-end accuracy? even though its a really small difference i found it a little weird :/
https://osu.ppy.sh/b/442221?m=0