xxdeathx wrote:
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Since when did HW made maps for humans.. tho?
lol congratz anyway
Slider arts are awesome, and the map itself is also an art. I don't really understand, but it is still great to look at
It's not first ranked map of 2015. It will be ranked permantly still in 2014 
Yeah you're right . It was disqualified and ok . I agree with you pielak . First ranked map of 2015 baby !D
There's a reason why you need to get maps bubbled before ranking, you know...
Except this map uses unique patterns, and that is what you have an issue with. Just like Miss You, which isn't really all that hard at all, but got the same amount of shit. Nobody really cares about a map's difficulty so long as it's mapped in a way preferred to them. That's what I've always seen, at least.
Maybe we need to start making it more clear what the difference is between objective and subjective quality in maps.
Just FCed this part after clicking "test" million times in editor. /o/
Then there's some good un-ranked maps that don't get ranked. Like gg.
What if the maps that you consider good, are actually 1/2 spam with no spacing which people worship as "the best maps" such as some of caren's or silynn's maps, that barely follow anything in the ranking criteria and have zero technical qualify?
People should know that maps that get ranked are the ones who have rankable quality. If you don't like it, someone else does. That's why it got ranked in the first place. People should really acknowledge that other people have different opinions.
"This map is an overmapped piece of shit, it's not an opinion, it's a fact! just listen to the music guys, you're wrong and i'm right!!!!!"
This thread stays locked until the mapper decides to make changes and when I am done with sorting out the rant you guys were posting. Hollow Wings, please contact me or any other QAT/GMT to unlock.
Edit: Unlocked.
When it comes to this, I'd say; if the notes mapped exist in the song, it shouldn't be too much of a problem. However the mapper interpreted it, as long as it can be considered good by a significant majority (this includes both players and mappers/modders), it should be rankable, or it should at least be possible to get it to a state wherein it is rankable through modding without harming the map too much.
).
edit: oh nvm, I found it, you hid it in a box
edit2: read through your mod, my points are different from yours though
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Congratulations!
Such amazing map(especially the sound effect
Anyhow, congratulation!
Anyhow, congratulation!
Barney
Congrats!
I think it's good maps like this are getting ranked. It's a step towards harder stuff getting ranked.
Congratulations Hollow Wings
omg, congrats. make my day when another AR10 gets ranked
Kaguya Hourain wrote:
xxdeathx wrote:
First ranked play on this map!
and get 0ppxxdeathx wrote:
First ranked play on this map!
还有人记得这张图当初的模样吗？
Halozy - Gennryuu Kaiko (Hollow Wings) [Waterfall]
What was the map like when first made ↑
转眼间萌萌的HW都要AFK了.
Halozy - Gennryuu Kaiko (Hollow Wings) [Waterfall]
What was the map like when first made ↑
转眼间萌萌的HW都要AFK了.
吓得我飞了起来Autumn wrote:
还有人记得这张图当初的模样吗？
Halozy - Gennryuu Kaiko (Hollow Wings) [Waterfall]
What was the map like when first made ↑
转眼间萌萌的HW都要AFK了.
would never have guessed this map would ever become qualified... really an amazing map, its a shame those who can't play it will proceed to QQ
I think even people who can play it will complain, just like when people who can't play something offer compliments. It doesn't matter as long as they aren't acting like a dick and explain their reasoning.Weed wrote:
would never have guessed this map would ever become qualified... really an amazing map, its a shame those who can't play it will proceed to QQ
hmm most of these complaints are coming from people that can't play it and i haven't yet seen one from someone who canLach wrote:
I think even people who can play it will complain, just like when people who can't play something offer compliments. It doesn't matter as long as they aren't acting like a dick and explain their reasoning.Weed wrote:
would never have guessed this map would ever become qualified... really an amazing map, its a shame those who can't play it will proceed to QQ
I love the slider art. You don't see that much anymore, so kudos for that.
Yesssss been waiting for this day, lemme get my popcorn
怎么没一丝hw要quit的气氛
... this map is not made for humans.
Darksonic wrote:
... this map is not made for humans.
lol congratz anyway
Slider arts are awesome, and the map itself is also an art. I don't really understand, but it is still great to look at
hot damn grats
HW should put a supporter tag as a prize to player who FCed it lol
I tried my best to avoid hating this map and after watching random ppl playing it, I feel like its good. If you can play it just put auto and enjoy it, feels great :3
The only thing that I dont like are those really spaced streams near the end, so hard
btw gratz :3
The only thing that I dont like are those really spaced streams near the end, so hard
btw gratz :3
Topic Starter
thank u~ sco, yuki, lust and oracle, may have this as the best version.
guys, hate and love this map, thx for playing!
guys, hate and love this map, thx for playing!
I liked it when it was pending tho. I don't know now.
Grats anyway. gna jinx ur qualify heh
Grats anyway. gna jinx ur qualify heh
WOW ! It's your first ranked marathon map ? If is , congrats HW !!!
Huh? https://osu.ppy.sh/s/100348ByBy_ChAn wrote:
WOW ! It's your first ranked marathon map ? If is , congrats HW !!!
HW I love you.
we are a few days early for the qualified -> first ranked map of 2015
i cant pass so its good map thank you for ranking
pielak wrote:
we are a few days early for the qualified -> first ranked map of 2015
Yeah you're right . It was disqualified and ok . I agree with you pielak . First ranked map of 2015 baby !
DSorry, but this map lacks a fair bit of something that is called quality and should have not been ranked in its current state. If you need more details, this is probably due to blatant abuse of patterns like 00:47:399 (1,2,3,1,2) - and the fact there are barely any distinct and audible sounds you mapped most, if not all streams to. Oh, and also a massive pile of overlapping copypaste that starts from 03:43:584, not speaking of the stream that follows the kiai part on 04:05:781 and ignores any features provided to you by music.
I am also going to refer to this post, as similar situation has already happened once in the past; you can read first two paragraphs of it, replacing "Platinum" with "Mysterious Hymn".
I am also going to refer to this post, as similar situation has already happened once in the past; you can read first two paragraphs of it, replacing "Platinum" with "Mysterious Hymn".
HW的图总是要来个一次两次的
Since it has been DQ'd, I think i should point out the mistake of storyboard lyrics here
There are two places of your sb lyrics are wrong: (check http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Lyrics:_%E6%BA%90%E6%B5%81%E6%87%90%E5%8F%A4)
Since it has been DQ'd, I think i should point out the mistake of storyboard lyrics here
There are two places of your sb lyrics are wrong: (check http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Lyrics:_%E6%BA%90%E6%B5%81%E6%87%90%E5%8F%A4)
- 13.png 风->風
- last-1.png (?)->崩
Just wondering, when a QAT wants to unqualify a map, can they do it on their own accord or do they actually need get the approval of other QATs aswell? There are times when I see a map get unqualified, and the QAT post say something like, '' Hello there I've talked with this other QAT and this third QAT and we decide this doesnt work so rip your map'', and other times, like Otsukimi Recital and this, where it's just one QAT saying ''This map is bad and is now unqualified''TicClick wrote:
Sorry, but this map lacks a fair bit of something that is called quality and should have not been ranked in its current state. If you need more details, this is probably due to blatant abuse of patterns like 00:47:399 (1,2,3,1,2) - and the fact there are barely any distinct and audible sounds you mapped most, if not all streams to. Oh, and also a massive pile of overlapping copypaste that starts from 03:43:584, not speaking of the stream that follows the kiai part on 04:05:781 and ignores any features provided to you by music.
I am also going to refer to this post, as similar situation has already happened once in the past; you can read first two paragraphs of it, replacing "Platinum" with "Mysterious Hymn".
There's a reason why you need to get maps bubbled before ranking, you know...
毀了一副好SB，唉。
yea sure, but there's also a reason for the qualifie section/qatKotonoha wrote:
Just wondering, when a QAT wants to unqualify a map, can they do it on their own accord or do they actually need get the approval of other QATs aswell? There are times when I see a map get unqualified, and the QAT post say something like, '' Hello there I've talked with this other QAT and this third QAT and we decide this doesnt work so rip your map'', and other times, like Otsukimi Recital and this, where it's just one QAT saying ''This map is bad and is now unqualified''TicClick wrote:
Sorry, but this map lacks a fair bit of something that is called quality and should have not been ranked in its current state. If you need more details, this is probably due to blatant abuse of patterns like 00:47:399 (1,2,3,1,2) - and the fact there are barely any distinct and audible sounds you mapped most, if not all streams to. Oh, and also a massive pile of overlapping copypaste that starts from 03:43:584, not speaking of the stream that follows the kiai part on 04:05:781 and ignores any features provided to you by music.
I am also going to refer to this post, as similar situation has already happened once in the past; you can read first two paragraphs of it, replacing "Platinum" with "Mysterious Hymn".
There's a reason why you need to get maps bubbled before ranking, you know...
Still waiting for approved section 2.0 to happen
You're completely missing my point.FlobuFlobs wrote:
yea sure, but there's also a reason for the qualifie section/qatKotonoha wrote:
Just wondering, when a QAT wants to unqualify a map, can they do it on their own accord or do they actually need get the approval of other QATs aswell? There are times when I see a map get unqualified, and the QAT post say something like, '' Hello there I've talked with this other QAT and this third QAT and we decide this doesnt work so rip your map'', and other times, like Otsukimi Recital and this, where it's just one QAT saying ''This map is bad and is now unqualified''
There's a reason why you need to get maps bubbled before ranking, you know...
plz rerank
star~
star~
Kodora
Song have constant 1/4 beats during almost all drain time, and there is absolutely nothing wrong with mapping them, especially considering that they're provided by the song and hitsounded to fit the song perfectly.
And I can totally agree with Tess - dropping out just a broken heart icon without real issues to point out, without proper suggestions of how this may be fixed is so unprofessional.
And I can totally agree with Tess - dropping out just a broken heart icon without real issues to point out, without proper suggestions of how this may be fixed is so unprofessional.
恭喜发财
嗯，最后的星星感觉射在了应该射的地方
What's not fitting about it, though? The song is really intense, as is the map. The sv flows quite well and the patterns match the intensity of the song really well too - I mentioned the last section being too hard earlier, but I still think it fits, despite its ridiculous difficulty. I think people are too used to easier maps. A map's difficulty isn't what makes it good or bad. It's how said difficulty is designed. I think we can all agree that Tenshi isn't a bad map and that map is miles harder than this one.SnowflakeStreet wrote:
I'm cool with difficult maps, but the song is just not fitting.
Except this map uses unique patterns, and that is what you have an issue with. Just like Miss You, which isn't really all that hard at all, but got the same amount of shit. Nobody really cares about a map's difficulty so long as it's mapped in a way preferred to them. That's what I've always seen, at least.
Maybe we need to start making it more clear what the difference is between objective and subjective quality in maps.
unfortunate that this is the reality of the QAT now, that they believe they can make subjective unranks for "map quality" without any attempt at improving the map because they believe their definition of "quality" is more important than the BATs involved in ranking the map
I personally don't have much of an opinion on the map one way or the other, but the simple fact that this was unqualified on such a weak concept just disappoints me
I personally don't have much of an opinion on the map one way or the other, but the simple fact that this was unqualified on such a weak concept just disappoints me
hey guys, if you want to see this ranked again best way will be giving some mods
~passing by~
~passing by~
Truth has been spokencaptin1 wrote:
unfortunate that this is the reality of the QAT now, that they believe they can make subjective unranks for "map quality" without any attempt at improving the map because they believe their definition of "quality" is more important than the BATs involved in ranking the map
I personally don't have much of an opinion on the map one way or the other, but the simple fact that this was unqualified on such a weak concept just disappoints me
Yup. Make this my words.captin1 wrote:
unfortunate that this is the reality of the QAT now, that they believe they can make subjective unranks for "map quality" without any attempt at improving the map because they believe their definition of "quality" is more important than the BATs involved in ranking the map
I personally don't have much of an opinion on the map one way or the other, but the simple fact that this was unqualified on such a weak concept just disappoints me
Instead of tossing around blame and namecalling pointlessly, I'm going to point out some patterns in this map that I don't think are very fair at all. Examples:
01:26:070 (15,1) - You expect the player to cross 75% of the screen in less than 1/10 of a second, and the music isn't even especially intense there, which doesn't make much sense. Most people complaining about the map are doing so because of patterns like this that aim for sheer difficulty rather than playability or going along with the music.
02:01:446 (7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14,15) - I don't objectively have problems with most of the stream spacing in this map, but the angle change here feels HORRIBLE, at least to me. Around (11) or so, the angle takes a sharp turn instead of a smooth one, and it just doesn't really work. I'm not sure I've full comboed this part ever, and I've tried this map a lot. 00:43:758 (7,8,9,10,11,12,13) - has a similar problem, although it's not quite as bad.
03:00:579 (2,1,1) - The slider blanketing here isn't very great, and the blanketing all throughout this slow section suffers from similar issues. Set the circle size to 2.5 to see it more clearly.
04:00:231 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9) - The note speedup here also feels pretty bad, and to me it feels more luck-based whether you hit it or not because you have to change your cursor angle and speed so quickly.
04:13:845 (14,15,16,1,2,3,4) - Another really sharp, weird angle that I screw up more often than not. This one isn't as bad as the others I've mentioned though.
04:25:116 (16,1) - What am I looking at? I can't think of any possible cursor motion that can play this intuitively.
05:00:925 (2,3,4,5,1) - Not necessarily a problem, but can anyone even FC this? 1.20x note spacing on 2 x 2.8 slider velocity.
I actually like this map a lot; it's challenging, fun to play, and has a lot of awesome-looking patterns. The problem is that it's just not very high quality, and the problem with making maps this hard is that almost nobody knows how it actually feels to play, or whether certain patterns work or not, so it's not going to get too many useful mods - and even if it does, you might have to give up some of your awesome patterns because, despite your best effort, and despite how fun they might be to play, they're not necessarily good.
Remember: there's nothing wrong with mapping for the graveyard.
01:26:070 (15,1) - You expect the player to cross 75% of the screen in less than 1/10 of a second, and the music isn't even especially intense there, which doesn't make much sense. Most people complaining about the map are doing so because of patterns like this that aim for sheer difficulty rather than playability or going along with the music.
02:01:446 (7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14,15) - I don't objectively have problems with most of the stream spacing in this map, but the angle change here feels HORRIBLE, at least to me. Around (11) or so, the angle takes a sharp turn instead of a smooth one, and it just doesn't really work. I'm not sure I've full comboed this part ever, and I've tried this map a lot. 00:43:758 (7,8,9,10,11,12,13) - has a similar problem, although it's not quite as bad.
03:00:579 (2,1,1) - The slider blanketing here isn't very great, and the blanketing all throughout this slow section suffers from similar issues. Set the circle size to 2.5 to see it more clearly.
04:00:231 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9) - The note speedup here also feels pretty bad, and to me it feels more luck-based whether you hit it or not because you have to change your cursor angle and speed so quickly.
04:13:845 (14,15,16,1,2,3,4) - Another really sharp, weird angle that I screw up more often than not. This one isn't as bad as the others I've mentioned though.
04:25:116 (16,1) - What am I looking at? I can't think of any possible cursor motion that can play this intuitively.
05:00:925 (2,3,4,5,1) - Not necessarily a problem, but can anyone even FC this? 1.20x note spacing on 2 x 2.8 slider velocity.
I actually like this map a lot; it's challenging, fun to play, and has a lot of awesome-looking patterns. The problem is that it's just not very high quality, and the problem with making maps this hard is that almost nobody knows how it actually feels to play, or whether certain patterns work or not, so it's not going to get too many useful mods - and even if it does, you might have to give up some of your awesome patterns because, despite your best effort, and despite how fun they might be to play, they're not necessarily good.
Remember: there's nothing wrong with mapping for the graveyard.
I think people need to start properly defining which maps should be ranked and which shouldn't be
Difficulty shouldn't be a factor in ranking providing it doesn't exceed humanly playable levels
Difficulty shouldn't be a factor in ranking providing it doesn't exceed humanly playable levels
While we're at it, here's a thing that buggs me quite much.
■ I really love these Streams 04:05:781 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14,15,16) - and the idea behind them, but I really hate the fact that these sharp turns sometimes happen on normal beats (and not on the very strong ones that'd indicate such a change) or vocals. This goes for:
04:09:075 (7) -
04:13:238 (7) -
04:17:313 (7) -
04:18:786 (7) -
04:24:423 (8) -
04:45:318 (9) -
04:46:706 (9) -
04:48:180 (10) -
It'd feel more natural if you'd only use these for the very strong beat in the song (best example is the first stream Ive posted).
■ I would also shape 04:22:081 (13,14,15,16) - more curvy to the right. There's no real reason to have the start of the next combo on the right side if it's shaped like that.
Edit: oh, also. These things 01:28:584 (6,7,8) - feel extremely awkward. You're most likely expecting a repeat Slider like the tons of the times you've had that one before, but there's none and you just suddenly have to play the next repeat Slider that starts on a red tick (opposed to the all-white-tick combo before that)
■ I really love these Streams 04:05:781 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14,15,16) - and the idea behind them, but I really hate the fact that these sharp turns sometimes happen on normal beats (and not on the very strong ones that'd indicate such a change) or vocals. This goes for:
04:09:075 (7) -
04:13:238 (7) -
04:17:313 (7) -
04:18:786 (7) -
04:24:423 (8) -
04:45:318 (9) -
04:46:706 (9) -
04:48:180 (10) -
It'd feel more natural if you'd only use these for the very strong beat in the song (best example is the first stream Ive posted).
■ I would also shape 04:22:081 (13,14,15,16) - more curvy to the right. There's no real reason to have the start of the next combo on the right side if it's shaped like that.
Edit: oh, also. These things 01:28:584 (6,7,8) - feel extremely awkward. You're most likely expecting a repeat Slider like the tons of the times you've had that one before, but there's none and you just suddenly have to play the next repeat Slider that starts on a red tick (opposed to the all-white-tick combo before that)
MillhioreF wrote:
05:00:925 (2,3,4,5,1) - Not necessarily a problem, but can anyone even FC this? 1.20x note spacing on 2 x 2.8 slider velocity.
Just FCed this part after clicking "test" million times in editor. /o/
I can attest to their fcability!Pappy wrote:
MillhioreF wrote:
05:00:925 (2,3,4,5,1) - Not necessarily a problem, but can anyone even FC this? 1.20x note spacing on 2 x 2.8 slider velocity.
Just FCed this part after clicking "test" million times in editor. /o/
Yeah, that was a bad question. I should have asked if anyone can FC them _reliably_.
I fc the first of the two at the end reliably, but for some reason I always miss on the second one ):MillhioreF wrote:
Yeah, that was a bad question. I should have asked if anyone can FC them _reliably_.
I don't recall something having to be FCable reliably to be good or enjoyable
If it's possible to humanly FC it, I don't really see the issue
Also yeah sil you really picked the worst possible example here
I think this would be a better example when it comes to recently ranked hard maps
Or, hell, even this would count (the fact that it's a HW map doesn't really make the point any less valid, considering that we're talking about rankable difficulty here)
But I think that Elemental Creation is probably the #1 example of recently ranked extremely hard maps. Why do all of those maps get to pass, but not this one? Yeah, it could see some improvements here and there, but that doesn't mean that you should recommend it to stay in the graveyard. That's really rude, and using a map's difficulty as a reason for it to stay graved is just a weak argument.
When it comes to quality, I'd say that it's quite high, and I've seen other users agree, but others would also say it's not. This is fine, and it happens on every map. There is no map that everybody loves, and that's fine. So why do I see so many people putting their personal opinion over pointing out objective issues within the map?
I really can't understand why despite all the previous map dramas people still can't get over themselves and their preferences
If it's possible to humanly FC it, I don't really see the issue
Also yeah sil you really picked the worst possible example here
I think this would be a better example when it comes to recently ranked hard maps
Or, hell, even this would count (the fact that it's a HW map doesn't really make the point any less valid, considering that we're talking about rankable difficulty here)
But I think that Elemental Creation is probably the #1 example of recently ranked extremely hard maps. Why do all of those maps get to pass, but not this one? Yeah, it could see some improvements here and there, but that doesn't mean that you should recommend it to stay in the graveyard. That's really rude, and using a map's difficulty as a reason for it to stay graved is just a weak argument.
When it comes to quality, I'd say that it's quite high, and I've seen other users agree, but others would also say it's not. This is fine, and it happens on every map. There is no map that everybody loves, and that's fine. So why do I see so many people putting their personal opinion over pointing out objective issues within the map?
I really can't understand why despite all the previous map dramas people still can't get over themselves and their preferences
i really don't get what qualifies as rankable and what doesn't anymore. one shitty low quality map gets ranked, the next doesn't. it's an all or none situation, so make it be that way.
I agree with this.nookls wrote:
i really don't get what qualifies as rankable and what doesn't anymore. one shitty low quality map gets ranked, the next doesn't. it's an all or none situation, so make it be that way.
Then there's some good un-ranked maps that don't get ranked. Like gg.
I just don't see what makes this a "shitty low quality map". The map is easy to read and feels, at least to me, like it matches the song. The only gripe I can see is that it's moderately difficult to play. And I don't see why difficulty of playing should factor into ranking a map. I'm not a mapper so I know my opinion might not hold much weight at all, but as a player I'm really sad to see this map go ): it seemed like a breath of fresh air and I really enjoyed itnookls wrote:
i really don't get what qualifies as rankable and what doesn't anymore. one shitty low quality map gets ranked, the next doesn't. it's an all or none situation, so make it be that way.
OH NO people have different opinions!Soap755 wrote:
I agree with this.nookls wrote:
i really don't get what qualifies as rankable and what doesn't anymore. one shitty low quality map gets ranked, the next doesn't. it's an all or none situation, so make it be that way.
Then there's some good un-ranked maps that don't get ranked. Like gg.
What if the maps that you consider good, are actually 1/2 spam with no spacing which people worship as "the best maps" such as some of caren's or silynn's maps, that barely follow anything in the ranking criteria and have zero technical qualify?
People should know that maps that get ranked are the ones who have rankable quality. If you don't like it, someone else does. That's why it got ranked in the first place. People should really acknowledge that other people have different opinions.
"This map is an overmapped piece of shit, it's not an opinion, it's a fact! just listen to the music guys, you're wrong and i'm right!!!!!"
It is sad to see this got unranked.
For those who think the hitsound is inaudible. Please turn of music volume and leave effect volume on for a while and listen to the nicely made custom hitsound that is so rythmic.
For those who think the map doesn't fit the song or overmapped. Please listen carefully to the music where the note is placed. There's always something to be there. Don't judge overmapping on your own opinion about what fit and what is not. It is too subjective. Every mapper has his own pattern to follow. Notes doesn't necessarily need to follow certain vocal patterns, or drum patterns or single instrumental pattern. Listen to maps like Miss You by Hanzer.
For those who think the map is too hard to play, not fcable. Please please note that there's no map that suit everyone's skill level and play style. There's no reason to believe a map is overmapped just because u cannot play it. This is where the star difficulty system come into play. Though it is not that accurate to judge the difficulty level, it is at least objective and give u a sense. Try to fc freedom dive or big black before u post "this is just mapping for difficulty". And don't forget how "shitty" maps like big black got SSed by rrtyui this year.
For mapping style, personally I cannot accept HW's mapping style due to my bad reading ability. But it is OK as long as a few people enjoys this map. I witnesses how JappyBabes fc that last crazy part and how mercurius got 1200combo on this map, there are some player that this map is aiming for. As players' skill improves, the mapping style is changing all the time. This is 2014 and may as well be a 2015 map. I saw shitty maps that has unreasonably long and boring and ugly slider that are ranked and are considered "qualified" by the QATs or that has very awkward blanks between notes that are considered "not overmapped". It is just so sad that this is disqualified just because one QAT said that this lacks quality and because of streams and sounds and another unrelated thread.
Good job HW and I hope u keep working on this and get it re-ranked.
For those who think the hitsound is inaudible. Please turn of music volume and leave effect volume on for a while and listen to the nicely made custom hitsound that is so rythmic.
For those who think the map doesn't fit the song or overmapped. Please listen carefully to the music where the note is placed. There's always something to be there. Don't judge overmapping on your own opinion about what fit and what is not. It is too subjective. Every mapper has his own pattern to follow. Notes doesn't necessarily need to follow certain vocal patterns, or drum patterns or single instrumental pattern. Listen to maps like Miss You by Hanzer.
For those who think the map is too hard to play, not fcable. Please please note that there's no map that suit everyone's skill level and play style. There's no reason to believe a map is overmapped just because u cannot play it. This is where the star difficulty system come into play. Though it is not that accurate to judge the difficulty level, it is at least objective and give u a sense. Try to fc freedom dive or big black before u post "this is just mapping for difficulty". And don't forget how "shitty" maps like big black got SSed by rrtyui this year.
For mapping style, personally I cannot accept HW's mapping style due to my bad reading ability. But it is OK as long as a few people enjoys this map. I witnesses how JappyBabes fc that last crazy part and how mercurius got 1200combo on this map, there are some player that this map is aiming for. As players' skill improves, the mapping style is changing all the time. This is 2014 and may as well be a 2015 map. I saw shitty maps that has unreasonably long and boring and ugly slider that are ranked and are considered "qualified" by the QATs or that has very awkward blanks between notes that are considered "not overmapped". It is just so sad that this is disqualified just because one QAT said that this lacks quality and because of streams and sounds and another unrelated thread.
Good job HW and I hope u keep working on this and get it re-ranked.
How do you even determine "quality" to the point that a map can be ranked or not?
- Patterns that make sense? We see less and less of those in Insane/Extra difficulties nowadays and that's not stopping anyone.
- Readability? That's subjective, I can read stuff most people would call totally unreadable.
- Playability? That's subjective too, we saw some very good plays on this map even during the short time it was ranked, so obviously some people can play it.
- Following the music? Maybe, but I'd argue there are a lot of other ranked maps that completely make up their own beats. At least this one follows the constant background 1/4.
What it boils down to in the end, since any criteria (beyond ranking criteria themselves) is subjective, is whether or not the map is the best it can be. I don't think this one is yet, but all the same what right does anyone have to say "this mapping style is unrankable"?
- Patterns that make sense? We see less and less of those in Insane/Extra difficulties nowadays and that's not stopping anyone.
- Readability? That's subjective, I can read stuff most people would call totally unreadable.
- Playability? That's subjective too, we saw some very good plays on this map even during the short time it was ranked, so obviously some people can play it.
- Following the music? Maybe, but I'd argue there are a lot of other ranked maps that completely make up their own beats. At least this one follows the constant background 1/4.
What it boils down to in the end, since any criteria (beyond ranking criteria themselves) is subjective, is whether or not the map is the best it can be. I don't think this one is yet, but all the same what right does anyone have to say "this mapping style is unrankable"?
this is what i mean, if everything is subjective then why can't this be ranked while maps like dadadadada can and are?MillhioreF wrote:
How do you even determine "quality" to the point that a map can be ranked or not?
- Patterns that make sense? We see less and less of those in Insane/Extra difficulties nowadays and that's not stopping anyone.
- Readability? That's subjective, I can read stuff most people would call totally unreadable.
- Playability? That's subjective too, we saw some very good plays on this map even during the short time it was ranked, so obviously some people can play it.
- Following the music? Maybe, but I'd argue there are a lot of other ranked maps that completely make up their own beats. At least this one follows the constant background 1/4.
What it boils down to in the end, since any criteria (beyond ranking criteria themselves) is subjective, is whether or not the map is the best it can be. I don't think this one is yet, but all the same what right does anyone have to say "this mapping style is unrankable"?
Why do people even map this hard to begin with, especially on low bpm songs like this one? I mean, the harder it is, the more annoying it becomes, and the bigger potential it has to spawn a drama like this one.
It's a frustrating map to play. The slidervelocity and the spacing is beyond insane. It's just not a fun map to play in terms of trying to FC it. So many aspects that could be made better, that's all there is to it.
It's a frustrating map to play. The slidervelocity and the spacing is beyond insane. It's just not a fun map to play in terms of trying to FC it. So many aspects that could be made better, that's all there is to it.
RIP HW. One of the only mappers that bring diversity. Even though i'm not really fan of his/her maps.
By the way, guys, could you please stop this unnecessary drama ? Because the angry GM will lock this thread, and nobody will be happy.
As i always say, before complaining about a map, try to pass it first.
By the way, guys, could you please stop this unnecessary drama ? Because the angry GM will lock this thread, and nobody will be happy.
As i always say, before complaining about a map, try to pass it first.
Guys, if you're not going to give some suggestions or advices about how to improve the map to get it ranked as soon as possible, try to avoid commenting for now, less spam and more useful comments please, I see there are many ppl that gives their opinions and stuff and that's great but, as most of them aren't positive ones, then let's try to avoid them so we'll be sure there won't be any drama here. And this means, it's ok if you think this: "Omg what a shitty map, unplayable, impossible, please make maps to be able to play by everyone, shitty mapping, 2015 is lost" etc etc etc, these are your opinions and it's fine, but DON'T say it here where we know many ppl won't think like you, or else I will have to close this until some BATs or QATs come to give their suggestions.
Let me be the boo-man doing this.Cherry Blossom wrote:
Because the angry GM will lock this thread, and nobody will be happy.
This thread stays locked until the mapper decides to make changes and when I am done with sorting out the rant you guys were posting. Hollow Wings, please contact me or any other QAT/GMT to unlock.
Edit: Unlocked.
Topic Starter
i'm reading posts and checking mods now, plz no more drama for the thread's already unlocked.
I just left the map playing on auto without the music, only with the hitsounds, they sound great, but at the same time it's waste since all the rhythms of the song are represented just by pressing 1/4 streams at an almost constant speed in spaced streams or just tapping at 1/2 timing to the sliders. It lacks impact of the feeling of playing the song, osu is limited to two keys and cursor movement, since people mentioned Elemental Creation here, take a look at that map, you press the main beats of the song and the strong parts, it's a hard map but feels great because of the feedback you get from your movements from both hands, I don't get this feeling in Genryuu Kaiko, it's just like I'm pressing notes trying to hit circles mapped to the slightest noises in the background... just my two cents on this.
btw, great hitsounding
btw, great hitsounding
random mod, hope it will be usefull
[Mysterious hymn]
00:13:064 (2,2) - i believe that stacking slider is an unrankable issue
i understand on what you mapped the stream but i think it's interenting to map this sound because of the hitsounds it's not listenable
02:43:931 (1) - may be this this jump is a bit to much large
03:13:064 (1) - nice scythe
03:15:839 (1) - this overlapping is very strange
03:15:839 (1,2) - it could be nice of you make a blank with thoses slider
04:50:174 (1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1) - it's a bit repetitive here, you can do something better
i suggest you this
1 https://osu.ppy.sh/ss/2377441
2 https://osu.ppy.sh/ss/2377443
3 https://osu.ppy.sh/ss/2377446
4 https://osu.ppy.sh/ss/2377449 (overlapping are visible because i change the ar to 0 to take screen)
well gl hf, i wish this map will be requalified ans pls don't quit osu i'll be sad without your map
[Mysterious hymn]
00:13:064 (2,2) - i believe that stacking slider is an unrankable issue
i understand on what you mapped the stream but i think it's interenting to map this sound because of the hitsounds it's not listenable
02:43:931 (1) - may be this this jump is a bit to much large
03:13:064 (1) - nice scythe
03:15:839 (1) - this overlapping is very strange
03:15:839 (1,2) - it could be nice of you make a blank with thoses slider
04:50:174 (1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1) - it's a bit repetitive here, you can do something better
i suggest you this
1 https://osu.ppy.sh/ss/2377441
2 https://osu.ppy.sh/ss/2377443
3 https://osu.ppy.sh/ss/2377446
4 https://osu.ppy.sh/ss/2377449 (overlapping are visible because i change the ar to 0 to take screen)
well gl hf, i wish this map will be requalified ans pls don't quit osu i'll be sad without your map
Topic Starter
for there's loooooots of post here, i just generally give a response:
however the map is suck or great to u, if it's different to others in ur mind, then i'll be glad to see that. this map is made in my highest mapping quality, thou there's streams and spaced aiming patterns, i did those after lots of thoughts and testing. maybe lots of u guys judged this map by just looking at it in editor without playing, coz u can't play or won't do it. well, that's so sad to me coz i always think the playing feedback is the most important thing in mapping or to the whole osu game, just like i always prefer a map looks bad but plays good.
yeah i used to wanna give up this map coz i think no matter what i did to this, the result will be disappoint at last. i have to say that i already lost all of motivation to rank any map, for i tried to find the ballance between me and community but always failed at last. the only reason i'm here is other's strong willing with inspiration of having faith to the appreciation system again. idk what'll happen eventually, but plz regard this as my last trying.
to ticclick:
however the map is suck or great to u, if it's different to others in ur mind, then i'll be glad to see that. this map is made in my highest mapping quality, thou there's streams and spaced aiming patterns, i did those after lots of thoughts and testing. maybe lots of u guys judged this map by just looking at it in editor without playing, coz u can't play or won't do it. well, that's so sad to me coz i always think the playing feedback is the most important thing in mapping or to the whole osu game, just like i always prefer a map looks bad but plays good.
yeah i used to wanna give up this map coz i think no matter what i did to this, the result will be disappoint at last. i have to say that i already lost all of motivation to rank any map, for i tried to find the ballance between me and community but always failed at last. the only reason i'm here is other's strong willing with inspiration of having faith to the appreciation system again. idk what'll happen eventually, but plz regard this as my last trying.
to ticclick:
1. about blatant abuse of patterns: that's the exact way i map this song with same patterns, in their best settings.
2. about volume of hitsounds: i can hear all of them clearly, but well not all people can do that. yeah i know, just like those ones who said this map's objs followed nothing and ignored those obvious 1/4 sounds directly hue. largered hitnormal's volume a bit.
3. about massive pile of overlapping copypaste: same response as 1's above.
4. about diff name: changed to "Higan Torrent" instead.
to onijam:2. about volume of hitsounds: i can hear all of them clearly, but well not all people can do that. yeah i know, just like those ones who said this map's objs followed nothing and ignored those obvious 1/4 sounds directly hue. largered hitnormal's volume a bit.
3. about massive pile of overlapping copypaste: same response as 1's above.
4. about diff name: changed to "Higan Torrent" instead.
fixed both
MillhioreF wrote:
Instead of tossing around blame and namecalling pointlessly, I'm going to point out some patterns in this map that I don't think are very fair at all. Examples:
01:26:070 (15,1) - You expect the player to cross 75% of the screen in less than 1/10 of a second, and the music isn't even especially intense there, which doesn't make much sense. Most people complaining about the map are doing so because of patterns like this that aim for sheer difficulty rather than playability or going along with the music. thou i don't think my version's wrong but since lots of modders and testers complained about this, i decide to change it to another style to fit the normal sense.
02:01:446 (7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14,15) - I don't objectively have problems with most of the stream spacing in this map, but the angle change here feels HORRIBLE, at least to me. Around (11) or so, the angle takes a sharp turn instead of a smooth one, and it just doesn't really work. I'm not sure I've full comboed this part ever, and I've tried this map a lot. 00:43:758 (7,8,9,10,11,12,13) - has a similar problem, although it's not quite as bad. after lots of tests i can say thou the stream looks horrible, even some one recommend me change those shapes to regular pentagon or something like that to give "more clear and well done composing" which i won't agree with those testing results.
03:00:579 (2,1,1) - The slider blanketing here isn't very great, and the blanketing all throughout this slow section suffers from similar issues. Set the circle size to 2.5 to see it more clearly. lol, maybe only u can find issues like this coz u did ez mode www, fixed.
04:00:231 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9) - The note speedup here also feels pretty bad, and to me it feels more luck-based whether you hit it or not because you have to change your cursor angle and speed so quickly. i can some kind of agree with u after scaning some replays on the score board, so i decide to merge note 7 and 8 into a 1/4 slider to low down the risk of combo breaking, still kept a part of spaced stream thou.
04:13:845 (14,15,16,1,2,3,4) - Another really sharp, weird angle that I screw up more often than not. This one isn't as bad as the others I've mentioned though. yes, this is fine imo.
04:25:116 (16,1) - What am I looking at? I can't think of any possible cursor motion that can play this intuitively. believe it or not, it's easier to play than fluent flow in streams.
05:00:925 (2,3,4,5,1) - Not necessarily a problem, but can anyone even FC this? 1.20x note spacing on 2 x 2.8 slider velocity. even i can do it myself (sometime thou orz).
I actually like this map a lot; it's challenging, fun to play, and has a lot of awesome-looking patterns. The problem is that it's just not very high quality, and the problem with making maps this hard is that almost nobody knows how it actually feels to play, or whether certain patterns work or not, so it's not going to get too many useful mods - and even if it does, you might have to give up some of your awesome patterns because, despite your best effort, and despite how fun they might be to play, they're not necessarily good.
Remember: there's nothing wrong with mapping for the graveyard.
Yauxo wrote:
While we're at it, here's a thing that buggs me quite much.
■ I really love these Streams 04:05:781 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14,15,16) - and the idea behind them, but I really hate the fact that these sharp turns sometimes happen on normal beats (and not on the very strong ones that'd indicate such a change) or vocals. This goes for: i know what u mean, and actually, i did what u said which is correct to u, maybe it's hard to notice or it's just not good to u thou.
04:09:075 (7) -
04:13:238 (7) -
04:17:313 (7) -
04:18:786 (7) -
04:24:423 (8) -
04:45:318 (9) -
04:46:706 (9) -
04:48:180 (10) -
It'd feel more natural if you'd only use these for the very strong beat in the song (best example is the first stream Ive posted).
■ I would also shape 04:22:081 (13,14,15,16) - more curvy to the right. There's no real reason to have the start of the next combo on the right side if it's shaped like that. the reason u mentioned above fits here imo.
Edit: oh, also. These things 01:28:584 (6,7,8) - feel extremely awkward. You're most likely expecting a repeat Slider like the tons of the times you've had that one before, but there's none and you just suddenly have to play the next repeat Slider that starts on a red tick (opposed to the all-white-tick combo before that) yeah, but well i think this is not that hard to play if u can go through the previous part, and this pattern maybe a little tricky while playing fine thou.
thx for modding!Ovoui wrote:
random mod, hope it will be usefull
[Mysterious hymn]
00:13:064 (2,2) - i believe that stacking slider is an unrankable issue no, it's not.
i understand on what you mapped the stream but i think it's interenting to map this sound because of the hitsounds it's not listenable
02:43:931 (1) - may be this this jump is a bit to much large already changed.
03:13:064 (1) - nice scythe
03:15:839 (1) - this overlapping is very strange
03:15:839 (1,2) - it could be nice of you make a blank with thoses slider current ones r fine enough.
04:50:174 (1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1) - it's a bit repetitive here, you can do something better sry but i won't change the last part coz it's perfect now.
i suggest you this
1 https://osu.ppy.sh/ss/2377441
2 https://osu.ppy.sh/ss/2377443
3 https://osu.ppy.sh/ss/2377446
4 https://osu.ppy.sh/ss/2377449 (overlapping are visible because i change the ar to 0 to take screen)
well gl hf, i wish this map will be requalified ans pls don't quit osu i'll be sad without your map
oh man I really want this to be approved because the way I see it, this is like chipscape
it's one of those necessary hard maps that will make players improve more and more
it's one of those necessary hard maps that will make players improve more and more
You know, there's this song by Muse on GH:3 where the chart is mostly either just alt strumming or long notes, which is basically the equivalent of streams and 1/2. Not every song is the same, and what works in one song won't really work for the other. Personally I feel like the way the streams/sliders are mapped out properly carry over the song's draggy feel (the vocals and melodies are very drawn out, there's no real stop-motion going on in there) while still accentuating the constant and intense percussive rhythms in the song.
You need to keep in mind that everybody hears music differently. It takes quite some amount of training to be able to objectively discern each audible instrument in a song (and even more practice to properly hear ghost notes and the like) and until that time I feel as though people should try taking their own biases into account before making comments on how a song's audio is conveyed in a game chart. The only way to preserve mapping individuality and artistic freedom is by focusing your advice on how to improve in the mapper's terms, not your own. So, saying "your sv is too big" "your rhythms don't fit" or, in other words "your interpretation of the map is wrong" will never do a thing for the mapper. Your suggestions must fit the mapper's idea of what they intended with the map, and only try to further improve their own ideas, rather than impose yours on theirs and ruin the map altogether.
I'll be adding my own two cents though, in the hopes that we can get this ranked again soon.
You need to keep in mind that everybody hears music differently. It takes quite some amount of training to be able to objectively discern each audible instrument in a song (and even more practice to properly hear ghost notes and the like) and until that time I feel as though people should try taking their own biases into account before making comments on how a song's audio is conveyed in a game chart. The only way to preserve mapping individuality and artistic freedom is by focusing your advice on how to improve in the mapper's terms, not your own. So, saying "your sv is too big" "your rhythms don't fit" or, in other words "your interpretation of the map is wrong" will never do a thing for the mapper. Your suggestions must fit the mapper's idea of what they intended with the map, and only try to further improve their own ideas, rather than impose yours on theirs and ruin the map altogether.
I'll be adding my own two cents though, in the hopes that we can get this ranked again soon.
small mod~Mysterious Hymn Rhythms & Patterns
A big issue that people have with your streams, I think, isn't the streams themselves and more the jumps in between them. It's not even that they're too large, just that they're counter-intuitive, which makes them feel too large. I personally didn't have a problem with a lot of these but I'll be giving suggestions on the ones you can improve.
00:25:203 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14,15) - With your previous stream, you get a consistent momentum going for the player, eventually ending it in an diagonally upwards-right angle, and then you make a jump diagonally downwards-left, only to go back to where you came from at the same momentum that you previously had, meaning that the player has to make a really sharp, heavy turn and then go back where they came from at a constant rate that's 3x less fast than the ones they just arrived from, all within a timeframe of 174ms. Now, most experienced players can pull this off - hell, even I can, but that doesn't make it comfortable to play. Don't worry, I won't write a wall for every mod post, I just want to explain why this doesn't work. For this pattern, try flipping it horizontally and then placing it in the bottom right corner, like so http://puu.sh/dG1tT.png. Obviously adjust the other patterns so everything stays pretty too
00:28:671 (5,6,7,8) - Mild suggestion - It'd be nice to add some variety to these patterns by using some rearranging and ctrl + G magic. I used NCs here to show you exactly what I mean but you should not apply these NC's!. They're only there to make my suggestion easier to understand http://puu.sh/dG1XJ.png. That said, if you want to NC those, be my guest.
00:39:769 (5,6,7,8) - http://puu.sh/dG2cO.png
00:44:451 (15) - This slider is placed a bit too far to the right, and doesn't follow the earlier stream's momentum very well. With spaced streams especially, keeping track of momentum is crucial to making your map enjoyable. Try something like this instead http://puu.sh/dG2iV.png
00:44:972 (3) - Move to x352 y144 for better flow
00:45:665 (1,2,3,4,5) - This stream is a problem, because it involves a lot of stacks but needs changing. What I've found to work best flow-wise was something like this http://puu.sh/dG2Sw.png where I simply copypasted 00:45:145 (1,2,3,4,5) - , flipped it horizontally and scaled the pattern's spacing by 1.5x. You can rework the other patterns around it to make sure everything's pretty, I'm sure.
01:17:226 (1) - ctrl + G
01:18:613 (2) - ^
01:23:295 (8) - ^ maybe? Not sure about this
01:26:070 (15,1) - I mentioned this jump in an earlier post, it's really counterintuitive. You can maintain a similar flow but make it more playable by rounding the circle out like this http://puu.sh/dG43O.png http://puu.sh/dG46A.png
01:29:191 (1) - Ctrl + G
01:29:365 (2) - ^
01:29:538 (3) - ^ (Reason I mention these separately is because I want you to invert them individually, not as a whole)
01:30:232 (4,1) - This jump is really awkward. Also, the two streams afterwards don't flow that great. It would probably be better if you remapped them, and start the first stream at this kind of angle http://puu.sh/dG5ju.png
The kiai after this is really solid, nice job!
02:02:313 (1,2,3) - Change these jumps to something like this http://puu.sh/dG5Nc.png for better flow
02:03:353 (1,2,3,4,5) - This pattern is too widely spaced for the flow you're trying to use here. Scale the pattern by 0.8x and rotate it by -30° to get it to look like this http://puu.sh/dG5QQ.png. Trust me, plays way better.
02:15:145 (2,3,4) - Stacking these doesn't play that well in my opinion, mostly due to your low stack leniency. Try something like this instead http://puu.sh/dG5V9.png
02:16:706 (2) - I think it would be better to stack this on the sliderend of 02:16:879 (3) - . That actually be a lot more "you" than the way it is now.
02:18:093 (4) - http://puu.sh/dG62h.png
02:19:654 (3,1,2) - Can you make this pattern similar to the ones you did here 02:11:677 (2,1,2) - ? That'd flow a lot better
02:43:758 (15,1) - This is not okay. Ctrl H J this pattern 02:43:931 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14,15) - and then adapt it into something like this http://puu.sh/dG6gM.png http://puu.sh/dG6hK.png
02:45:319 (1) - Ctrl G
03:01:966 (1) - ^
03:15:839 (1,2,3) - 2 fits with 3, but 1 doesn't fit with 2. I have a suggestion but it's not all that great, since I'm not very good with sliders, but I don't like telling a mapper something isn't good without giving a way to fix it, so http://puu.sh/dG6Kp.png http://puu.sh/dG6MC.png. Each of these sliders blankets the previous one to some degree, so I'd say it's still aesthetically better than two huge threepoints that seem fairly disconnected. Still though, if you have a better idea, then by all means, please do that instead.
03:37:342 (1,2,3,4,5,6,1) - Something like this http://puu.sh/dG6Tx.png or similar for readability. This pattern is really hard to read otherwise.
03:43:584 (1) - Despite what TicClick said, this kiai is really good. The first time I played this this part was awesome and I actually FCd it, so please leave this as is. This part is really really nice.
04:17:920 (13,14,15,16) - Why not make stacks like this and 04:19:653 (1,2,3,4) - this into kick sliders? I'm not sure about that though, considering that the deathstream actually fits this section pretty well. Just putting this out there.
Really hope this helps you out, HW. Sorry if it might be a little sloppy, it was late at night when I did the mod. Good luck ranking this, it's a great map. Really.
I've saved the modded version so if there's any questions you have about patterns just PM me about them.
A big issue that people have with your streams, I think, isn't the streams themselves and more the jumps in between them. It's not even that they're too large, just that they're counter-intuitive, which makes them feel too large. I personally didn't have a problem with a lot of these but I'll be giving suggestions on the ones you can improve.
00:25:203 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14,15) - With your previous stream, you get a consistent momentum going for the player, eventually ending it in an diagonally upwards-right angle, and then you make a jump diagonally downwards-left, only to go back to where you came from at the same momentum that you previously had, meaning that the player has to make a really sharp, heavy turn and then go back where they came from at a constant rate that's 3x less fast than the ones they just arrived from, all within a timeframe of 174ms. Now, most experienced players can pull this off - hell, even I can, but that doesn't make it comfortable to play. Don't worry, I won't write a wall for every mod post, I just want to explain why this doesn't work. For this pattern, try flipping it horizontally and then placing it in the bottom right corner, like so http://puu.sh/dG1tT.png. Obviously adjust the other patterns so everything stays pretty too
00:28:671 (5,6,7,8) - Mild suggestion - It'd be nice to add some variety to these patterns by using some rearranging and ctrl + G magic. I used NCs here to show you exactly what I mean but you should not apply these NC's!. They're only there to make my suggestion easier to understand http://puu.sh/dG1XJ.png. That said, if you want to NC those, be my guest.
00:39:769 (5,6,7,8) - http://puu.sh/dG2cO.png
00:44:451 (15) - This slider is placed a bit too far to the right, and doesn't follow the earlier stream's momentum very well. With spaced streams especially, keeping track of momentum is crucial to making your map enjoyable. Try something like this instead http://puu.sh/dG2iV.png
00:44:972 (3) - Move to x352 y144 for better flow
00:45:665 (1,2,3,4,5) - This stream is a problem, because it involves a lot of stacks but needs changing. What I've found to work best flow-wise was something like this http://puu.sh/dG2Sw.png where I simply copypasted 00:45:145 (1,2,3,4,5) - , flipped it horizontally and scaled the pattern's spacing by 1.5x. You can rework the other patterns around it to make sure everything's pretty, I'm sure.
01:17:226 (1) - ctrl + G
01:18:613 (2) - ^
01:23:295 (8) - ^ maybe? Not sure about this
01:26:070 (15,1) - I mentioned this jump in an earlier post, it's really counterintuitive. You can maintain a similar flow but make it more playable by rounding the circle out like this http://puu.sh/dG43O.png http://puu.sh/dG46A.png
01:29:191 (1) - Ctrl + G
01:29:365 (2) - ^
01:29:538 (3) - ^ (Reason I mention these separately is because I want you to invert them individually, not as a whole)
01:30:232 (4,1) - This jump is really awkward. Also, the two streams afterwards don't flow that great. It would probably be better if you remapped them, and start the first stream at this kind of angle http://puu.sh/dG5ju.png
The kiai after this is really solid, nice job!
02:02:313 (1,2,3) - Change these jumps to something like this http://puu.sh/dG5Nc.png for better flow
02:03:353 (1,2,3,4,5) - This pattern is too widely spaced for the flow you're trying to use here. Scale the pattern by 0.8x and rotate it by -30° to get it to look like this http://puu.sh/dG5QQ.png. Trust me, plays way better.
02:15:145 (2,3,4) - Stacking these doesn't play that well in my opinion, mostly due to your low stack leniency. Try something like this instead http://puu.sh/dG5V9.png
02:16:706 (2) - I think it would be better to stack this on the sliderend of 02:16:879 (3) - . That actually be a lot more "you" than the way it is now.
02:18:093 (4) - http://puu.sh/dG62h.png
02:19:654 (3,1,2) - Can you make this pattern similar to the ones you did here 02:11:677 (2,1,2) - ? That'd flow a lot better
02:43:758 (15,1) - This is not okay. Ctrl H J this pattern 02:43:931 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14,15) - and then adapt it into something like this http://puu.sh/dG6gM.png http://puu.sh/dG6hK.png
02:45:319 (1) - Ctrl G
03:01:966 (1) - ^
03:15:839 (1,2,3) - 2 fits with 3, but 1 doesn't fit with 2. I have a suggestion but it's not all that great, since I'm not very good with sliders, but I don't like telling a mapper something isn't good without giving a way to fix it, so http://puu.sh/dG6Kp.png http://puu.sh/dG6MC.png. Each of these sliders blankets the previous one to some degree, so I'd say it's still aesthetically better than two huge threepoints that seem fairly disconnected. Still though, if you have a better idea, then by all means, please do that instead.
03:37:342 (1,2,3,4,5,6,1) - Something like this http://puu.sh/dG6Tx.png or similar for readability. This pattern is really hard to read otherwise.
03:43:584 (1) - Despite what TicClick said, this kiai is really good. The first time I played this this part was awesome and I actually FCd it, so please leave this as is. This part is really really nice.
04:17:920 (13,14,15,16) - Why not make stacks like this and 04:19:653 (1,2,3,4) - this into kick sliders? I'm not sure about that though, considering that the deathstream actually fits this section pretty well. Just putting this out there.
Now comes that one part that nobody seems to have modded, probably because it's really hard to judge. Or, well, it looks hard to judge, while the part is actually quite straightforward. It's just that maintaining a consistent flow at such an insane sv is incredibly difficult to pull off well.
So, first things first, you'll need to rearrange this 04:49:827 (1,2,3,4) - pattern into something like this http://puu.sh/dG7lZ.png or else hitting that slider without breaking will not only be nearly impossible, it'll just be plain annoying. Yes, this sacrifices some aesthetics, but playability is always more important than that.
You can stack 04:48:960 (2) - on top of 04:49:914 (2) - to soften things up a little, and if you're really nazi about looks (like me) you can just rearrange this 04:47:399 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14,15) - so that stacking with 04:49:827 (1) - becomes possible. In that case, though, leave the jumps prior to 04:49:827 (1) - looking like this http://puu.sh/dG7Df.png
04:53:295 (2) - Now lower this a little. In fact, you can lower this entire section, because jumps like these become way easier to hit if they're further away from the top of the screen. For mouse players it's a little different, but always keep in mind that the easiest accessible spots for a tablet player are either the bottom left or the bottom right, depending on whether they're right or left-handed respectively. This makes the top right the hardest accessible place for right-handed tablet players, which will probably be the majority of people playing your map.
05:00:579 (1,2,3,4,5,1) - Now, if you want to pull this off, you can't do it like this. You have a few options. You can ctrl + G 05:00:579 (1) - , which would maintain the continuity of the previous sections while making the last stream a lot easier to hit, but it'll still be at an awkward angle.
Alternatively, you could ctrl G 05:00:925 (2,3,4,5,1) - , but that'd result in an antijump. It does play better for me than the current pattern but not everybody likes those, so that's up to you.
You could also rearrange the stream, in a way that makes them flow better while maintaining the current pattern's tonal crescendo, which is actually really awesome about that part, like so http://puu.sh/dG82s.png
Lastly, you could make the stream grow exponentially. This would even further accentuate the crescendo of the melody while also making it more playable. What I mean is something like this http://puu.sh/dG8rT.png, though whether they'll all be NC'd or not is up to you. Personally, I find this the best option, but I still wanted to give you other ones in case you don't like this.
Hitsounds
Your hitsounding is awesome, but soft-hitnormal.wav is too low a volume and blends too well with the music. Consider making the sample stand out more.
Other than that, no complaints. Great work. Seriously.
So, first things first, you'll need to rearrange this 04:49:827 (1,2,3,4) - pattern into something like this http://puu.sh/dG7lZ.png or else hitting that slider without breaking will not only be nearly impossible, it'll just be plain annoying. Yes, this sacrifices some aesthetics, but playability is always more important than that.
You can stack 04:48:960 (2) - on top of 04:49:914 (2) - to soften things up a little, and if you're really nazi about looks (like me) you can just rearrange this 04:47:399 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14,15) - so that stacking with 04:49:827 (1) - becomes possible. In that case, though, leave the jumps prior to 04:49:827 (1) - looking like this http://puu.sh/dG7Df.png
04:53:295 (2) - Now lower this a little. In fact, you can lower this entire section, because jumps like these become way easier to hit if they're further away from the top of the screen. For mouse players it's a little different, but always keep in mind that the easiest accessible spots for a tablet player are either the bottom left or the bottom right, depending on whether they're right or left-handed respectively. This makes the top right the hardest accessible place for right-handed tablet players, which will probably be the majority of people playing your map.
05:00:579 (1,2,3,4,5,1) - Now, if you want to pull this off, you can't do it like this. You have a few options. You can ctrl + G 05:00:579 (1) - , which would maintain the continuity of the previous sections while making the last stream a lot easier to hit, but it'll still be at an awkward angle.
Alternatively, you could ctrl G 05:00:925 (2,3,4,5,1) - , but that'd result in an antijump. It does play better for me than the current pattern but not everybody likes those, so that's up to you.
You could also rearrange the stream, in a way that makes them flow better while maintaining the current pattern's tonal crescendo, which is actually really awesome about that part, like so http://puu.sh/dG82s.png
Lastly, you could make the stream grow exponentially. This would even further accentuate the crescendo of the melody while also making it more playable. What I mean is something like this http://puu.sh/dG8rT.png, though whether they'll all be NC'd or not is up to you. Personally, I find this the best option, but I still wanted to give you other ones in case you don't like this.
Hitsounds
Your hitsounding is awesome, but soft-hitnormal.wav is too low a volume and blends too well with the music. Consider making the sample stand out more.
Other than that, no complaints. Great work. Seriously.
Really hope this helps you out, HW. Sorry if it might be a little sloppy, it was late at night when I did the mod. Good luck ranking this, it's a great map. Really.
I've saved the modded version so if there's any questions you have about patterns just PM me about them.
I should throw a mod your way sometime soon if this doesn't get reranked by the time I decide to. Cool mods from the rest here!
Il tell you some of this bashing on Hollow is unfair. at the end of the day just because you are bad and cannot play this map dosent make this map bad. il update this when i get a skilled player to give a fair non biased opinion on it.
EDIT: Mustys opinion : http://prntscr.com/5k2qhl and http://prntscr.com/5k2r74
And people saying they will quit and shit if this gets ranked, I now want this to get ranked to get rid of all the bashers
overall my opinion on it is that is a hard map, a fun map and lots of effort from Hollow and the modders has been put into it
anyone who bashes this map is most likely an idiot who purchased a tablet and taught from that he could stream 300bmp instantly no effort
if you think you can do a better job instead of bashing on this map go make your own, then maybe we will shit on your hype and effort? because its not nice
it breaks my heart how hollow is trying to meet everyone's wants and needs. *que annoying little girls voice back and forthing 2easy 2hard omfg noob 2easy 2hard*
At the end of the day be open minded watch this on auto for a bit and you will realise that it is a hard map and a map what will be a challenge or a goal for most players like me! Thats some people play, they see that hard map the play it. Y hey muster up the willpower to pass it through all though all the painful streams on your left/right arm and you finally done it you passed a difficult map and you can show off. its like when you pass airman you instantly press f9 and start pming your friends while spamming #osu anyone who dosent play a game with a goal like this why spend hours on it.
TL;DR : Dont bash mappers, map is fun, be a completionist and optimist about everything
EDIT: Mustys opinion : http://prntscr.com/5k2qhl and http://prntscr.com/5k2r74
And people saying they will quit and shit if this gets ranked, I now want this to get ranked to get rid of all the bashers
overall my opinion on it is that is a hard map, a fun map and lots of effort from Hollow and the modders has been put into it
anyone who bashes this map is most likely an idiot who purchased a tablet and taught from that he could stream 300bmp instantly no effort
if you think you can do a better job instead of bashing on this map go make your own, then maybe we will shit on your hype and effort? because its not nice
it breaks my heart how hollow is trying to meet everyone's wants and needs. *que annoying little girls voice back and forthing 2easy 2hard omfg noob 2easy 2hard*
At the end of the day be open minded watch this on auto for a bit and you will realise that it is a hard map and a map what will be a challenge or a goal for most players like me! Thats some people play, they see that hard map the play it. Y hey muster up the willpower to pass it through all though all the painful streams on your left/right arm and you finally done it you passed a difficult map and you can show off. its like when you pass airman you instantly press f9 and start pming your friends while spamming #osu anyone who dosent play a game with a goal like this why spend hours on it.
TL;DR : Dont bash mappers, map is fun, be a completionist and optimist about everything
I feel like being on a 2012 thread, waiting for the nuke or something thats kinda weird (jk)
Anyways, i didn't expected that but i actually enjoy this map. It is indeed pretty fun and as lewa said will help most of the people outta there to improve their aiming
Even tho, i can confirm that there are some patterns that wasn't suitable but i guess it's alright as everyone will take a look at the map now, raise ur kudosus
Anyways, i didn't expected that but i actually enjoy this map. It is indeed pretty fun and as lewa said will help most of the people outta there to improve their aiming
Even tho, i can confirm that there are some patterns that wasn't suitable but i guess it's alright as everyone will take a look at the map now, raise ur kudosus
Waiting for someone to say that a fun and pretty map isn't necessarily good.
A FUN AND PRETTY MAP ISN'T NECESSARILY GOOD
A fun map is not necessarily a good map? I thought that was the purpose of a game, having fun, and this is fun so i consider this map being good.
I would rephrase that to 'a good map cannot necessarily be ranked.'
I would rephrase that to 'a good map cannot necessarily be ranked.'
Well this map is actually good. But the thing is, when I hear the song the last thing I would think of are endless high spaced (slider-)streams. Compare it to chipscape for example. When I hear the song preview there I instantly think "stream map". But on this song here it just doesn't fit imo. Had you made this map for a different fitting song, no problem. Because the mapping is actually nice. But on this songs it feels more like "streams just for the sake of it" (please don't feel offended, I can imagine you put a lot of work in it and I am not going to downplay that). As Mikakage said it doesn't feel like you are playing the song.
Also I am not sure if this was already mentioned, but why the sharp turn in the stream here 01:59:277 (14,15) - ? You have no turn on these parts 00:41:590 (14,15) - and 01:42:631 (14,15) - and 01:48:180 (14,15) - and 01:53:728 (14,15) - (and in general all the time when this part in the song/map comes) so why the sudden change?
And I don't like this stack 04:19:567 (16,5) - I'd move (5) a bit to the right to balance the stream. I mean you didn't stack these here either 04:24:335 (7,9) - .
Also I am not sure if this was already mentioned, but why the sharp turn in the stream here 01:59:277 (14,15) - ? You have no turn on these parts 00:41:590 (14,15) - and 01:42:631 (14,15) - and 01:48:180 (14,15) - and 01:53:728 (14,15) - (and in general all the time when this part in the song/map comes) so why the sudden change?
And I don't like this stack 04:19:567 (16,5) - I'd move (5) a bit to the right to balance the stream. I mean you didn't stack these here either 04:24:335 (7,9) - .
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=p ... bY18#t=251
???
I'm glad people are trying to rank harder maps again, but forcing difficulty isn't how to do it, especially when some of the patters are borderline irritating to play. Compare this to freedom dive, it also has absurdly long streams. Listen to the song though, they belong there. That song was destined to be hard. This isn't. As much as I want a difficult map to be ranked, this is going to set a bad example.
???
I'm glad people are trying to rank harder maps again, but forcing difficulty isn't how to do it, especially when some of the patters are borderline irritating to play. Compare this to freedom dive, it also has absurdly long streams. Listen to the song though, they belong there. That song was destined to be hard. This isn't. As much as I want a difficult map to be ranked, this is going to set a bad example.
While I personally dont like the stream jumps because I suck ^w^ I think for the more experienced players it's a fun and enjoyable map, I don't agree with how heavily it's mapped but stop trying to force the mapper to change their style, if they want to map like what is done let them :/
Great map btw support!
༼つಠ益ಠ༽つ ─=≡Σ
Great map btw support!
༼つಠ益ಠ༽つ ─=≡Σ
Lots of people in the mapping/modding community will say that maps that are enjoyable to play for most aren't necessarily at their best or aesthetically pleasing, and that that by definition makes it "not good". I would like to take your rephrasing another step further and say that "a good map is not necessarily ready for ranking". Mostly because, in your scenario, that means there are nukeable good maps, which is kinda self-contradictory, I'd say. Even Eighto (490 diff) would've been rankable given enough modding and a full spread, at least by the standards of back then.Vell wrote:
A fun map is not necessarily a good map? I thought that was the purpose of a game, having fun, and this is fun so i consider this map being good.
I would rephrase that to 'a good map cannot necessarily be ranked.'
As I've said earlier, the main issue with this is that not everybody is equally musical, so to some people the streams will be a painfully obvious result of the song while others will be like "wtf overmap D:<", and this can lead to both sides will be calling each other retarded because they're both interpreting the song in a different way (which, if you've noticed, is exactly what has been happening).Tshemmp wrote:
Well this map is actually good. But the thing is, when I hear the song the last thing I would think of are endless high spaced (slider-)streams. Compare it to chipscape for example. When I hear the song preview there I instantly think "stream map". But on this song here it just doesn't fit imo. Had you made this map for a different fitting song, no problem. Because the mapping is actually nice. But on this songs it feels more like "streams just for the sake of it" (please don't feel offended, I can imagine you put a lot of work in it and I am not going to downplay that). As Mikakage said it doesn't feel like you are playing the song.
When it comes to this, I'd say; if the notes mapped exist in the song, it shouldn't be too much of a problem. However the mapper interpreted it, as long as it can be considered good by a significant majority (this includes both players and mappers/modders), it should be rankable, or it should at least be possible to get it to a state wherein it is rankable through modding without harming the map too much.
I think I addressed all of these in my mod above.Tshemmp wrote:
Also I am not sure if this was already mentioned, but [...]
Please read previous 16 pages before posting. Somebody (million ppl) said it before you.AR9 wrote:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=WSj3_8kbY18#t=251
???
I'm glad people are trying to rank harder maps again, but forcing difficulty isn't how to do it, especially when some of the patters are borderline irritating to play. Compare this to freedom dive, it also has absurdly long streams. Listen to the song though, they belong there. That song was destined to be hard. This isn't. As much as I want a difficult map to be ranked, this is going to set a bad example.
Yeah, that's a thing up to individual interpretation. I was just stating my opinion. I mean I wouldn't even mind if this got ranked, nobody forces me to play it anyway (which I still would, because as said the map itself is goodTess wrote:
As I've said earlier, the main issue with this is that not everybody is equally musical, so to some people the streams will be a painfully obvious result of the song while others will be like "wtf overmap D:<", and this can lead to both sides will be calling each other retarded because they're both interpreting the song in a different way (which, if you've noticed, is exactly what has been happening).Tshemmp wrote:
Well this map is actually good. But the thing is, when I hear the song the last thing I would think of are endless high spaced (slider-)streams. Compare it to chipscape for example. When I hear the song preview there I instantly think "stream map". But on this song here it just doesn't fit imo. Had you made this map for a different fitting song, no problem. Because the mapping is actually nice. But on this songs it feels more like "streams just for the sake of it" (please don't feel offended, I can imagine you put a lot of work in it and I am not going to downplay that). As Mikakage said it doesn't feel like you are playing the song.
).Can you link it to me (and especially HW's answer to it)? I am somehow to stupid to find it.Tess wrote:
I think I addressed all of these in my mod above.Tshemmp wrote:
Also I am not sure if this was already mentioned, but [...]
edit: oh nvm, I found it, you hid it in a box
edit2: read through your mod, my points are different from yours though
Maybe I misunderstood your points, then. And it's actually good to see someone who realizes that they're not forced to play every ranked map, which is exactly why difficulty shouldn't be what determines how rankable a map is. Tenshi is my #1 example of that.