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Performance Points feedback and suggestions (Standard)

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Saoji

Drezi wrote:

I skimmed your walls, and got the gist, it's just getting boring that this thread is spammed with stuff that's been answered already, or doesn't belong here, or simply outright wrong.
Give me a clear answer then, please. Or tell me where it belong then? How am I wrong whenever it's clearly what's happening? POst an answer isntead of spamming to say that you're pissed of spam.

Yales wrote:

Like how the hell my top perf' is full of DT whenever I play DT once every 2 months, whenever I have no top50 with DT... I don't get it. And don't get me wrong, I'm ok with my rank. But I wouldnt get this rank if I didnt play what osu!trainer told me to play with DT even though I have the "skill" for it. Just that my other scores, scores I try to improve everyday, aren't rewarded. I feel like playing pending maps, whenever the maps are actually ranked.
JappyBabes

Yales wrote:

I took the top 3rd performances of a top player.

Are you really, sincerely, saying that Primastella - Koigokoro [Insane] +HD,DT is a skill reference? (compared to airman and PowerExplosion almost SS with hrhd...) Even me, little 3k player I am, I FCed it. And I'm not even mentionning the comments disqus of this same map...
Look at the top50 of airman and primastella... You'll see a real difference, for the same amount of PP...lol
Somebody that thinks 99.12% on BSPower Explosion's Extra +HDHR is almost an SS should not be posting in this thread.
Saoji

JappyBabes wrote:

Yales wrote:

I took the top 3rd performances of a top player.

Are you really, sincerely, saying that Primastella - Koigokoro [Insane] +HD,DT is a skill reference? (compared to airman and PowerExplosion almost SS with hrhd...) Even me, little 3k player I am, I FCed it. And I'm not even mentionning the comments disqus of this same map...
Look at the top50 of airman and primastella... You'll see a real difference, for the same amount of PP...lol
Somebody that thinks 99.12% on BSPower Explosion's Extra +HDHR is almost an SS should not be posting in this thread.
I know there's something even between 1 100x and an SS but that's not the subject, it's still a 99% with hr, don't deviate please.
PS: I edited my post, so what now? Can I get a clear answer or are you going to find something else to deviate?

(I wonder why I shouldnt be posting on this thread even if I really think that 99% was near a SS, but well xD)
JappyBabes

Yales wrote:

(I wonder why I shouldnt be posting on this thread even if I really think that 99% was near a SS, but well xD)
Because it's not. It's not even close. 99.5% wouldn't even be remotely close to an SS with HR.
Saoji

JappyBabes wrote:

Yales wrote:

(I wonder why I shouldnt be posting on this thread even if I really think that 99% was near a SS, but well xD)
Because it's not. It's not even close. 99.5% wouldn't even be remotely close to an SS with HR.
Yes... As I said I already know it, but this is not the problem of the thread ^^" Anyway, move on :D
Still not answering. :S
silmarilen

JappyBabes wrote:

Yales wrote:

I took the top 3rd performances of a top player.

Are you really, sincerely, saying that Primastella - Koigokoro [Insane] +HD,DT is a skill reference? (compared to airman and PowerExplosion almost SS with hrhd...) Even me, little 3k player I am, I FCed it. And I'm not even mentionning the comments disqus of this same map...
Look at the top50 of airman and primastella... You'll see a real difference, for the same amount of PP...lol
Somebody that thinks 99.12% on BSPower Explosion's Extra +HDHR is almost an SS should not be posting in this thread.
it's not extra, it's 0108
Saoji
Ok, so basically.

You think it's totally normal to FC a map with a good score you found really hard for no reward.

You think skill can be calculated as a whole (as if you knew what's harder between SS freedom dive nomod or fc 97% with hr) like you refuse to admit that this is something too evasive that depends on each players.

You think that one single score can tells you and other people what's your skill.

You think that if you want to get pp you should neglect some maps in order to play the well known pp maps.

Mh... I can do nothing for you :D

More than anything else:
I had a great time trying to communicate with osu! community. -> When we don't know something, but we still want to leech, just deviate the subject on some details I said. I have big hopes for the future of this game... 8D

Good luck!
Drezi
You got guts, you're effin clueless and you still believe that everyone else is the idiot...

Let me break it down to you, so there's a slight chance that you'll actually understand something.

Yales wrote:

You think it's totally normal to FC a map with a good score you found really hard for no reward.
Yes, because 1) Noone cares what you personally found hard, what matters is what's hard objectively and statistically for the whole playerbase. 2) You do not deserve to be rewarded for playin the n+1th 'hard' map, if you have already proven that you can play at that level by setting 20-30 scores around that difficulty, you've already taken the rank you deserve for that level of play.

You think skill can be calculated as a whole (as if you knew what's harder between SS freedom dive nomod or fc 97% with hr) like you refuse to admit that this is something too evasive that depends on each players.
Again noone cares that it depends on each player, what matters is what's harder statistically for most people. The difficulty algorhythm can make a pretty good estimation as to what's harder between different scores, but there's always room for improvement, noone claims that it's perfect.

You think that one single score can tells you and other people what's your skill.
A single score can't that's why numerous performances make up your total pp and rank, not a single one or only a couple...

You think that if you want to get pp you should neglect some maps in order to play the well known pp maps.
No, to get pp and rank up, you need to play stuff that is harder than what you've already proven you can do to the system. Yes, you can argue that DT is overrated, as I said the system isn't perfect DT might be generally overrated due to it having simpler patterns and less complex rhythms making it easier to acc, still the system is rather accurate and the best anyone made so far, and Tom is doing his best to improve it.

Mh... I can do nothing for you :D
Oh the irony..

More than anything else:
I had a great time trying to communicate with osu! community. -> When we don't know something, but we still want to leech, just deviate the subject on some details I said. I have big hopes for the future of this game... 8D
Arrogant, clueless jerk.

Good luck!
Good luck comprehending what I've written!
Saoji
I have the guts because I know I'm not the only one thinking it, and even if I would be the only one that's what I think and could you stay polite please?
It's just as you wish

Anyway, yes, YOU . ARE . RIGHT. :)

Just to be clear, I have nothing against Tom or peppy, I know they're doing what they can and they're already doing a great job. I was just pointed out stuff that I thought it could be improved but you guys sre denying my points when I think they're worth a talk.
Rewben2
Yales what are you even proposing? I've read through your posts and you think the system doesn't correctly evaluate the difficulty of scores/maps. Yeah, plenty of people think this, big deal. It's well known that the system isn't perfect.
Saoji

Rewben2 wrote:

Yales what are you even proposing? I've read through your posts and you think the system doesn't correctly evaluate the difficulty of scores/maps. Yeah, plenty of people think this, big deal. It's well known that the system isn't perfect.
Well, I'm fine with this answer. I said I had nothing to suggest honnestly, but then people started to deny what I was pointed out, so I was just trying to explain that it wasn't just a whim or something. That's how I perceive things that are not good in the system, to me. I wasnt expecting some" I agree with you" but neither "you're a jerk"
Drezi
Sorry but your condescending style isn't deserving of a more polite attitude on my part either.

If you actually read the thread you'd find that we're continuously comping up with rather detailed suggestions for improving the system, because everyone agrees that it isn't perfect. We absolutely want change for the better, but what you were saying was nonsense, empty criticism and of the wrong aspects at that.
Vuelo Eluko
the only thing that got my goose was the idea that ppv1 was somehow better
Saoji

Riince wrote:

the only thing that got my goose was the idea that ppv1 was somehow better
I got your point, I was just saying that maybe it would be nice to expend a little the circle of top performances (as v1 tended to do actually).

But Drezi explained that "if you have already proven that you can play at that level by setting 20-30 scores around that difficulty, you've already taken the rank you deserve for that level of play."

So... I got it now I think xD.

Thanks for your reply.
Topic Starter
Tom94

Yales wrote:

The pro of osu!tp was that each of your top 50 scores were giving you at least a little something. Now even if you top50 on an insane map, you break your a** off for it. you might get nothing AT ALL. People can't even see it in your top perf, even if the map is known to be hard to everyone, except osu! So I just CAN'T agree with you when you say" If you want to know how good is someone check his top performances" There's no way half of my top "pp" are actually my real top perfomances. It might show some good (sometimes) scores, but definetly not my improvement. It's actually not what I'd like to show to show my skill.
osu!tp only did that if you had an extremely small amount of top50 scores. ppv2 is actually taking more scores into account (more specifically, the weight decreases by a slower rate) than osu!tp was.
xasuma
Tom, do you think a ladder system like the one I mentioned before would be feasible? Even if It doesn't replace the current system as I stated before, perhaps implemented as a new way to play multi player. And then you would just win for the glory.
I just find this would be really really fun.
manjumochi
MP ranking would be interesting...
Despite my actual skill being quite close than my rank (when I was 60k, I was losing against 100k+ ranked players, now at least I can win sometimes against players with my rank and generally win against lower ranked, but still exists very good low ranked players that are good - compared with their rank - ).
Ohrami
aim/speed/accuracy points
Astar

Kyou-kun wrote:

aim/speed/accuracy points
silmarilen

Astar wrote:

Kyou-kun wrote:

aim/speed/accuracy points
http://ask.fm/Tom94/answer/122180242638
Topic Starter
Tom94

xasuma wrote:

Tom, do you think a ladder system like the one I mentioned before would be feasible? Even if It doesn't replace the current system as I stated before, perhaps implemented as a new way to play multi player. And then you would just win for the glory.
I just find this would be really really fun.
Did you read my answer to your post on page 117 of this thread? Such a ladder would certainly be feasible, but whether this is something we want to add to the game would first have to be discussed - and then a lot of time would have to be allocated for that. I wouldn't count on something like that in the near future.
redhq
One thing that I've found frustrating recently and I don't know what a this is a symptom of but sometimes I'll play a map I haven't in a few months (that I actually got pp for then) and totally shatter my score both in terms of combo and accuracy and it will actually cause me to loose rank. It's super frustrating to show that you've demonstrably improved but you ranked down, can anyone explain this?
sayonara_sekai
Are you sure it isnt just normal rank decay..? Ive never lost ranks for posting a score with a higher acc than before
dung eater

redhq wrote:

One thing that I've found frustrating recently and I don't know what a this is a symptom of but sometimes I'll play a map I haven't in a few months (that I actually got pp for then) and totally shatter my score both in terms of combo and accuracy and it will actually cause me to loose rank. It's super frustrating to show that you've demonstrably improved but you ranked down, can anyone explain this?
If others improve more then you then your rank will go down. More people pass you than you pass others. It's working like intended.
Gh0stWarrior
Did the last update change something about mouse movement reading ? I mean that when i move my mouse around it doesn't feel as smooth as it used to be and i've been struggling for like 15-20 mins changing my sensibility but it just still feels weird and inacurate and i can't do any hard maps anymore ^^'

Am i the only one (in that case it might just come from me but like i haven't played in 2-3 days it just can't be that xD)
silmarilen

Gh0stWarrior wrote:

Did the last update change something about mouse movement reading ? I mean that when i move my mouse around it doesn't feel as smooth as it used to be and i've been struggling for like 15-20 mins changing my sensibility but it just still feels weird and inacurate.

Am i the only one (in that case it might just come from me but like i haven't played in 2-3 days it just can't be that xD

???????
Shizuyi
In all honesty ive got the same Problem with my mouse. :D

That aside i've got a question about PP because im really confused. I had a Song on "A" with ~4kk Points and had 292PP. 2 Hours later i had that Song on "S" with ~5,5kk Points and 488PP. I had about 2% lower ACC, still. Is that the reason? But that can nbot be. I mean i have 1,5kk Points more... Im confused!
Someone can help me?
GoldenWolf
score =/= pp
YamiHikari

Shizuyi wrote:

In all honesty ive got the same Problem with my mouse. :D

That aside i've got a question about PP because im really confused. I had a Song on "A" with ~4kk Points and had 292PP. 2 Hours later i had that Song on "S" with ~5,5kk Points and 488PP. I had about 2% lower ACC, still. Is that the reason? But that can nbot be. I mean i have 1,5kk Points more... Im confused!
Someone can help me?
PP depends on your combo (FC or not) and your acc
ivan

Gh0stWarrior wrote:

Did the last update change something about mouse movement reading ? I mean that when i move my mouse around it doesn't feel as smooth as it used to be and i've been struggling for like 15-20 mins changing my sensibility but it just still feels weird and inacurate and i can't do any hard maps anymore ^^'

Am i the only one (in that case it might just come from me but like i haven't played in 2-3 days it just can't be that xD)

Shizuyi

xYamiHikari wrote:

Shizuyi wrote:

In all honesty ive got the same Problem with my mouse. :D

That aside i've got a question about PP because im really confused. I had a Song on "A" with ~4kk Points and had 292PP. 2 Hours later i had that Song on "S" with ~5,5kk Points and 488PP. I had about 2% lower ACC, still. Is that the reason? But that can nbot be. I mean i have 1,5kk Points more... Im confused!
Someone can help me?
PP depends on your combo (FC or not) and your acc
Well Guys, i get that much but still then there 2 Questions:
1. So Acc is WAY! more important than my Combo?
2. Why for my PP doenst Count the Score which gives me the most?
mcdoomfrag

Shizuyi wrote:

Well Guys, i get that much but still then there 2 Questions:
1. So Acc is WAY! more important than my Combo?
2. Why for my PP doenst Count the Score which gives me the most?
1. Not exactly. Accuracy is only important if you get a Full Combo, or at least close to a full combo. If you have 99% accuracy but you missed in the middle of the song, you will probably get no pp out of the song.

2. Because ppv2 was introduced recently and was not always an integral part of the game. The game is designed to save only your records which have the highest "in-game" score, which is 99% reliant on combo, and ppv2 is calculated off of this score.
Shizuyi

mcdoomfrag wrote:

Shizuyi wrote:

Well Guys, i get that much but still then there 2 Questions:
1. So Acc is WAY! more important than my Combo?
2. Why for my PP doenst Count the Score which gives me the most?
1. Not exactly. Accuracy is only important if you get a Full Combo, or at least close to a full combo. If you have 99% accuracy but you missed in the middle of the song, you will probably get no pp out of the song.

2. Because ppv2 was introduced recently and was not always an integral part of the game. The game is designed to save only your records which have the highest "in-game" score, which is 99% reliant on combo, and ppv2 is calculated off of this score.

Da dass ja auch ein Feedback Thread sein soll gebe ich dann auch mal eins ab:

Genau diese 2 Punkte sind absoluter Blödsinn! Es sollte keinesfalls möglich sein, dass wenn man mehr Punkte, aber dann durch eine niedriger Acc seine PP verliert. Damit verliert das System irgendwie seinen Sinn. Ich denke, dass entweder FC (oder eben der generelle Score) vorgehen sollte und dann andere Faktoren einfließen oder einfach immer dein Score einfließt, der dir auch die meisten PP bringt, selbst wenn dieser Score nicht dein "Bester" von der reinen Punktzahl her ist.
Nyxa
Why are you posting in German
Shizuyi
I really dont know man. Just happend to do it. Ill transalte it at some time when im not to lazy. :D
Oni_old_1
No complaints so far :)
Nyxa
Posting this to remember Tom since the other guy seems to have forgotten (Or I missed it~)
http://ask.fm/Tom94/answer/122374575566
Plab719
I find it very strange that I can pass a song and FC it with one 100 granting 21pp, and when I add an extra mod and beat the score but with 3 more 100s (a little over a percent in the example I'm using), I get 14pp. Not complaining as accuracy should count more but it feels weird that you can show improvement and lose rank for it.
Nyxa
For the love of god

Can people start reading the thread before asking questions that are just downright stupid

I mean if you LOOK AT YOUR PROFILE you can see the fucking weightings on every score, it's not rocket science

Sheesh
Vuelo Eluko

Plab719 wrote:

I find it very strange that I can pass a song and FC it with one 100 granting 21pp, and when I add an extra mod and beat the score but with 3 more 100s (a little over a percent in the example I'm using), I get 14pp. Not complaining as accuracy should count more but it feels weird that you can show improvement and lose rank for it.
your accuracy was 4x worse, a few mods isnt going to make up for that.

the aim/speed value of the map probably barely changed since it was an easy/normal by the sound of it and those values are already almost nonexistent, but accuracy is a more quantifiable value regardless of aim/speed because its dictated by OD unlike the former, so accuracy gets weighted especially more the easier the map is. a 2 star od10 map would pretty much only be accuracy PP.

This was mostly educated guesses and speculation, but the first line remains true regardless.

at the end of the day, im glad accuracy is so highly weighted, since its quite a hard skill to develop and has the lowest 'visible impact' aside from less 100's, it makes it a desirable skill to have. I'd never even consider trying to become more accurate and just keep trying to go faster and faster and nothing else but with how heavily weighted it is, I'm definitely putting some time into that as well. It's a rhythm game. Even though Accuracy is my second worst trait aside from Aim..
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