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defenz0r
16 posts
Joined August 2012
Topic Starter
defenz0r
Hi,

Had the Roccat Kone XTD for 8 months. Things i didnt like:

- Cramped hands while playing
- to big for my Hands
- Problems at spinning
- Problems at streaming

I have medium sized Hands, not that big, i would say size 7.

What is my grip type? Palm
I use a Steelseries 4HD mousepad.
Playstyle: Mouse + Keyboard

Resolution : 2560x1440
Precision mode yes
Osu mouse Speed 5.0x
DPI: 1000
Gumpy
2,418 posts
Joined June 2014
Gumpy
Logitech G400.

Also why are you running osu! mouse speed 5x?!
defenz0r
16 posts
Joined August 2012
Topic Starter
defenz0r
Must correct this. Mouse speed is 6x.
Im a High sense Player, is this a problem?
I think its cause the high resolution, i use 1000 DPI right now.
Heard lower DPI, higher sensitivity of the game is the trick to get most precision.
Is the G400 bigger as the Roccat Kone XTD in size?
The next mouse should have a optical Sensor.

I hate Logitech, cause my latest Keyboard was a Logitech G15 and it was cheap build quality.
Isn't there a better one than Logitech G400 for osu?
-sev
875 posts
Joined February 2014
-sev
I've only used two mice, so I can't really recommend a ton. I use the Logitech G400s right now and it feels great. I don't know the dimensions of the roccat, nor have I seen one up close. It looks relatively similar to the G400s to me from a glance. I have relatively small (could be medium, idk) hands and the G400s fits my hand great. You say you are a palm user so I don't see how big a mouse is could be a problem, you want the mouse to fill your hand, no?

Go to a local store and try some mice there, see what feels best for your hand.

defenz0r wrote:

- Cramped hands while playing
- Problems at spinning
- Problems at streaming
These are irrelevant and will go away with taking time off (cramps)/ practicing (spinning, streaming)
Rio-
3,355 posts
Joined March 2013
Rio-
You could try Logitech G100s. It almost has the same components as G400s, only that It designed for High-dpi users (like RTS-Gaming players), lighter and smaller than G400s, and also Ergonomic for Claw-Grip users.
*I planned to buy this one too
defenz0r
16 posts
Joined August 2012
Topic Starter
defenz0r
Hmm i buy G100s and G400 and compare them.
xGx
173 posts
Joined December 2013
xGx
　
Last edited by xGx , edited 2 times in total.
NixXSkate
785 posts
Joined February 2011
NixXSkate
Please turn precision mode off.
If your osu! resolution is actually 2560x1440, I think 3000dpi is the upper limit if you want to play competitively.
The Pure Kone Optical is like the Kone XTD but a tad smaller, but with 4000dpi max (which you shouldn't be using, anyway).
Also, you shouldn't set the osu! sensitivity to a high multiplier, because you're skipping pixels by doing that. I'm assuming that the Kone XTD has smoothing at DPIs over ~5000 (or all the time), so you'd be better off setting the mouse to 3000dpi and osu! to 2x or something (not that you should be using sensitivity this high, anyway).
AmaiHachimitsu
1,639 posts
Joined May 2011
AmaiHachimitsu

defenz0r wrote:

Im a High sense Player, is this a problem?

The only problem is that no high sense player is a good player.


I kind of laughed at your settings because they are depicting you as a total newb who thinks he will manage faster maps if he plays on high sensitivity.

This setting wouldn't even be "OKAY" for FPS games, not to mention osu!, where the required movement is smooth and consistent.
FieryLight
217 posts
Joined January 2013
FieryLight

defenz0r wrote:

Must correct this. Mouse speed is 6x.
Im a High sense Player, is this a problem?
I think its cause the high resolution, i use 1000 DPI right now.
Heard lower DPI, higher sensitivity of the game is the trick to get most precision.
Is the G400 bigger as the Roccat Kone XTD in size?
The next mouse should have a optical Sensor.

I hate Logitech, cause my latest Keyboard was a Logitech G15 and it was cheap build quality.
Isn't there a better one than Logitech G400 for osu?
I think you heard wrong, it's the other way around. You want High DPI and 1.0x sensitivity to get most precision. Windows mouse settings should also be 6/11

As for a mouse, I think G400s is kind of big, but iunno, you could try it. G100s is probably good, but not perfect tracking. If you don't need perfect tracking I guess Kinzu V2 would be okay...?
iWhorse
299 posts
Joined December 2012
iWhorse
g400s
ZenithPhantasm
ZenithPhantasm
G100S. I see Rio- is a believer now after that comment I posted ;D
defenz0r
16 posts
Joined August 2012
Topic Starter
defenz0r

NixXSkate wrote:

Please turn precision mode off.
If your osu! resolution is actually 2560x1440, I think 3000dpi is the upper limit if you want to play competitively.
The Pure Kone Optical is like the Kone XTD but a tad smaller, but with 4000dpi max (which you shouldn't be using, anyway).
Also, you shouldn't set the osu! sensitivity to a high multiplier, because you're skipping pixels by doing that. I'm assuming that the Kone XTD has smoothing at DPIs over ~5000 (or all the time), so you'd be better off setting the mouse to 3000dpi and osu! to 2x or something (not that you should be using sensitivity this high, anyway).
Roccat Kone Pure optical or Logitech G400s ?
I kinda dont like Logitech, or is the G400s the better Mouse for Osu ?
buny
3,435 posts
Joined March 2012
buny
implying 1000 dpi is low
you essentially have high sensitivity inside and outside the game

hell, i bet you can do 360s ten times in one swipe in an fps game with that kind of sensitivity

precision -> off
sensitivity -> 1x
dpi -> preferably lower

if you don't have sens 1x, then you're basically switching back and forth two different dpis as you go in and out of the game.
defenz0r
16 posts
Joined August 2012
Topic Starter
defenz0r
implying 1000 dpi is low
you essentially have high sensitivity inside and outside the game

hell, i bet you can do 360s ten times in one swipe in an fps game with that kind of sensitivity

precision -> off
sensitivity -> 1x
dpi -> preferably lower
Thats wrong.
As Nixx said, for 2560x1440 3000dpi is the upper limit.
Currently use Osu Sensitivity 1.0 and 2400 DPI, precision Mode off.
I really got better, only with these new Settings.

Before i failed fast maps, now i dont fail and can do B Rank on those.

In FPS Games i cant do 360s ten times in one Swipe, but it would be possible with a lower Resolution,
the higher the resolution, the higher the DPI that would needed.

Is there a answer? I would prefer Roccat Kone Pure Core Optical over the G400s, is there some reason to not to do this?
buny
3,435 posts
Joined March 2012
buny
gl with 2.4k dpi is all i can say
defenz0r
16 posts
Joined August 2012
Topic Starter
defenz0r

buny wrote:

gl with 2.4k dpi is all i can say
There is no difference between low DPI.
If you got 1920x1080 the same speed and DPI accuracy will be 1200 dpi.
@ 960x540 the same speed and DPI accuracy will be 600 dpi.

So if you got 1024x768 800 DPI will be the same speed than my 2400 dpi on 2560x1440

The accuracy will be the same since i will use a optical Sensor of roccat kone pure core optical
I also could use 1200 DPI and 2x sensitivity, but it would be less accurate!



Example of 2560x1600


D = distance for 360 degrees in inches
W = horizontal resolution of screen
F = field of view in game
C = CPI needed

Number of pixels in 360 degrees = W * 360 / F

Distance moved = D

C = (W * 360) / (F * D)
Let's times, you play on a resolution of 2560 x 1600, a sensitivity of 15 cm / 360 ° rotation has (which is quite fast) and plays Counter-Strike (FOV 90):

15 cm = 5.91 inch

C = (2560 * 360) / (90 * 5.91)
C = 921600 / 531,9
C = 1732
You would need 1732 dpi to skip at this resolution and mouse sensitivity no pixels.

As in my Situation i have no sensitivity set, i need way more DPI !
buny
3,435 posts
Joined March 2012
buny
1.2k is still considered very high
defenz0r
16 posts
Joined August 2012
Topic Starter
defenz0r
Buny, if i go lower, it would need my whole FHD SteelSeries mouse Pad to Slide over the Screen.
Is there a reason to low-sense the game?
The Cursor is a lot Slower in Osu than on my Windows Desktop! In Osu i need much more DPI.
If i use 1200@ 2560x1440 and no sensitivity set i cant do Jumps / fast Singles.

Do we speak about @ 1920x1080 1200 DPI is high?
Can you explain me why high DPI (for you) is bad for Osu! ?

As i saw in the most Videos of people, they use windowed resolution on a 1280x1024 LCD Monitor.

On what resolution do you play?
how much dpi you use?
Do you use Sensitivity? If how much?
AmaiHachimitsu
1,639 posts
Joined May 2011
AmaiHachimitsu
You know, with all your arguments and all.


Do what you want, you will eventually notice it yourself (given that you will be trying hard to get good at the game) that your current sensitivity is not a good idea.
defenz0r
16 posts
Joined August 2012
Topic Starter
defenz0r

AmaiHachimitsu wrote:

You know, with all your arguments and all.


Do what you want, you will eventually notice it yourself (given that you will be trying hard to get good at the game) that your current sensitivity is not a good idea.
What's your screen resolution? 833dpi on 1280x1024 for example is ~1.5 inches to cross screen, while on 2560x1440 it is ~3.07

What sensitivity (DPI)@ 2560x1440 would be a good idea? Im still confused cause nixx said 3000 dpi is the bound..

From TeamLiquid (Cyro)

You can't really get good+accurate 1600-1800 on it, and you can't have 1:1 mouse response if you're adjusting sensitivity in a game unless it's like an FPS engine for example (so not possible on desktop, with dota 2 or starcraft)

My advice would be to just pick another mouse (avago ~3090 and 3010 opticals are around 1800dpi native so it shouldn't be too hard) or to adjust to 1150. Players of difficult mouse games such as Osu or competitive stuff where mouse is particularly important (FPS) very very often gravitate towards lower sensitivies for increased accuracy and speed (can move faster confidently with muscle memory which is stronger at lower sensitivity) and i'm using 630dpi atm - so using 1150 is just a matter of what you are adjusted to, not how fast it is.

Of course depends on screen size - on a 1920x1080 screen, 1150 dpi is 1.67 inches to cross screen.

On 2560x1440, it is 2.23 inches.

Just divide the biggest number in your resolution (in these cases 1920 or 2560) by DPI to find that stat - it's the best way to judge sensitivity in stuff like desktop and dota 2. For an FPS engine, you can use cm/360 which is different, but they don't matter as much as they are more easily adjustable (unless you are super super concerned about small performance nuances)


This would mean :


2560 / 2.23 = 1147,98 DPI would be the best for me.
I Give Up
1,648 posts
Joined January 2014
I Give Up

AmaiHachimitsu wrote:

Do what you want, you will eventually notice it yourself (given that you will be trying hard to get good at the game) that your current sensitivity is not a good idea.
I tried many times to change to low dpi setting and incorporate arm movement but that is verrrrrrrry hard for me. No Future :')
cheezstik
1,005 posts
Joined October 2013
cheezstik
Well, lower DPI means improved aiming accuracy, similar to higher tablet area size. Too high of a DPI will lower your aiming accuracy. Only reason you don't lower it too much is because of the extra movement you need to make, so you make a trade-off.

You should really just play around with the DPI a bit and see which you like, I'm sure this is more effective than any amount of equations. Osu isn't an fps or starcraft 2, so advice given by team liquid doesn't necessarily apply to osu.
defenz0r
16 posts
Joined August 2012
Topic Starter
defenz0r

cheezstik wrote:

Well, lower DPI means improved aiming accuracy, similar to higher tablet area size. Too high of a DPI will lower your aiming accuracy. Only reason you don't lower it too much is because of the extra movement you need to make, so you make a trade-off.

You should really just play around with the DPI a bit and see which you like, I'm sure this is more effective than any amount of equations. Osu isn't an fps or starcraft 2, so advice given by team liquid doesn't necessarily apply to osu.

@ the moment i like higher dpi, did already go down a bit with dpi but we will see...
Still can go lower.
I Give Up
1,648 posts
Joined January 2014
I Give Up
I recommend you should just play with the setup that is most comfortable to you. Play more and if you hit that aim wall then start looking at alternative playstyles.
defenz0r
16 posts
Joined August 2012
Topic Starter
defenz0r

KukiMonster wrote:

I recommend you should just play with the setup that is most comfortable to you. Play more and if you hit that aim wall then start looking at alternative playstyles.
Thats nice, thanks :)
ZenithPhantasm
ZenithPhantasm
Is fingertip grip @ 1250 DPI (1650x1050 windowed) a good idea?
defenz0r
16 posts
Joined August 2012
Topic Starter
defenz0r
I would say, as long as you comfortable with this setting, you will be fine :)
Ohrami
685 posts
Joined March 2010
Ohrami
all these people saying high sensitivity is bad are r.e.t.a.r.d.e.d







buny
3,435 posts
Joined March 2012
buny
1) silvia's dpi is still lowers than OP, and he's one of the selected players to be at that level at such a dpi

2) that's a tablet?

3 and 4) what is headshot? what is hitbox? what is movement inaccuracy? what is recoil? You showed me a game which focuses on movement aspects rather than aim, congratulations.
Ohrami
685 posts
Joined March 2010
Ohrami

buny wrote:

1) silvia's dpi is still lowers than OP, and he's one of the selected players to be at that level at such a dpi

2) that's a tablet?

3 and 4) what is headshot? what is hitbox? what is movement inaccuracy? what is recoil? You showed me a game which focuses on movement aspects rather than aim, congratulations.
1) his DPI is lower, his sensitivity to move across the screen is higher

2) yes it is

3) a headshot is what he got several times in that first video against fast-moving targets. idk why you mention hitbox or movement inaccuracy, since it has nothing to do with the video. recoil has no effect in either of those games with the weapons being used, so another pointless statement

buny wrote:

You showed me a game which focuses on movement aspects rather than aim, congratulations.
play the game before you say retarded things about it. sounds like you've barely even played FPS in general considering you can't even see that his shot goes exactly where his crosshair is aiming every time. here's a higher quality video with some slow motion since you don't seem to be able to tell the crosshair is on their head without it

buny
3,435 posts
Joined March 2012
buny
most of the shots in that video are body shots
the "zombies" or whatever are NPCs I'm assuming, because they only move one direction and have predictable movement


3.40 in your quake video shows that this player has trouble hitting people that strafe left and right as opposed to constantly bhopping in 1 direction

i will admit that your sensitivity has to be a bit higher in games that involve fast movements such as quake and gunz but it is only to compensate for the speed that the players move and to be able to have enough space for your camera to do a 360
Last edited by buny , edited 1 time in total.
Ohrami
685 posts
Joined March 2010
Ohrami
almost all of the shots on players in that last left 4 dead video are headshots. here, i'll point them out for you:
0:03 headshot, 0:20 headshot, 0:29 headshot, 0:33 headshot, 0:37 headshot, 0:41 headshot, 0:47 headshot, 0:51 headshot, 0:57 headshot, 1:00 headshot, 1:02 headshot
the ones that pounce in the air are players, the ones that just run around like retards are NPCs.

regarding that quake video: so does everyone else since aim prediction requires fast reactions more than raw control. the fact is that almost nobody else can get 70%+ accuracy that consistently on that many frags and most people use low sensitivity
Last edited by Ohrami , edited 2 times in total.
buny
3,435 posts
Joined March 2012
buny
and what dpi are they using?

you swing your mouse much faster in osu than you do tracking an enemy on any of those games

and that quake example, i don't have to go too indepth with it but he misses quite a few easy shots on people that are close up, because they require more precise movement.
Last edited by buny , edited 1 time in total.
Ohrami
685 posts
Joined March 2010
Ohrami

buny wrote:

and what dpi are they using?

you swing your mouse much faster in osu than you do tracking an enemy on any of those games
he uses 5700 dpi. no, you swing your mouse faster in left 4 dead 2 than you do in osu. also you completely ignored the point I made about SiLviA (the fact that his effective sensitivity is higher than OP's)

I hope you realize that situations like 3:40 in quake (close up to your opponent who is moving erratically back and forth with strafes) are the most difficult to aim in, and if you played the game you would know that
buny
3,435 posts
Joined March 2012
buny
it's not the same, because the actual velocity of your cursor is smaller compared to a larger screen.

And what rank is this guy on osu?

Kyou-kun wrote:

I hope you realize that situations like 3:40 in quake (close up to your opponent who is moving erratically back and forth with strafes) are the most difficult to aim in, and if you played the game you would know that
You let them walk into a crosshair like a normal person
You get them in the middle of their strafe, not between each A/D strafe
Ohrami
685 posts
Joined March 2010
Ohrami
so all that matters is the actual velocity of your cursor? so by your logic 800 dpi should be just as OK at 640x480 (<1 inch to cross the screen) and 2560x1440 (2.4 inches to cross the screen). these are effectively the same (according to you), yes?

buny wrote:

You let them walk into a crosshair like a normal person
You get them in the middle of their strafe, not between each A/D strafe
well then that's not really aiming now is it?? not that I believe you would be able to do that against anyone half decent before being fragged yourself
Noobsicle
674 posts
Joined October 2013
Noobsicle
that fps guy's sensitivity doesn't look high at all
at ~1:08 in the quake video, he moves his mouse quite a bit to achieve a 180 degree turn
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