Desperate-kun wrote:

I'd like to add a problem I found when looking through the map:

[Normal]

00:04:033 (2) - I wouldn't use multiple-reverse-sliders in a Normal, especially not in the easiest difficulty. The multiple repeats aren't visible early enough. Try to replace it by two 1/2-sliders and a circle, or simplify the rhythm by using an 1/1-reverse-slider (maybe with a red anchor in the middle, then it has almost the same effect as your current slider has.)
The same applies for the other slider that you used later on. yes i agree with u, checked all reversing sliders and fixed all these patterns (sry Desperate-kun i disapointted u again in lower diffs ;w;

Good luck with re-ranking this mapset! The Extra is very fun to play, as always! thank u ;w;

changed, thou i got really surprised that ranked map's source can't be ranked

Melophobia wrote:

I would like to bother you with metadata issue a little more.. 1) There's Chinese characters in the tags, replace 廢怯少女 with 魔法少女.

xxdeathx wrote:

Melophobia wrote:

I would like to bother you with metadata issue a little more.. 1) There's Chinese characters in the tags, replace 廢怯少女 with 魔法少女.

How did you even notice the difference?

Zare wrote:

Yeah. Don't unrank over stuff that isn't an issue.

I RECOMMEND TO CHANGE [MINAKAMI YUKI] TO MINAKAMI YUKI IN THE SB THANKS

Zare wrote:

i really agree what those said, and that's what exactly why i or other mappers use 3/4 sliders for beats like that. my bad english just can't express this, thx those and Zare for state this point of view clearly ;w;

Yeah. Don't unrank over stuff that isn't an issue.
Unrank over shit rhythms such as
01:04:033 (2) -
01:09:912 (2) -
01:11:939 (1) -
03:24:709 (1,2) -
because these are actually bad
the sliders ending on blue ticks in order to emphasize vocals or violin melodys are NOT. yeah, maybe that should be a note to emphasis the vocal beat at the end, thou idk why people can't accept it while others do it in their maps as well

Frostmourne wrote:

Zare wrote:

Yeah. Don't unrank over stuff that isn't an issue.

This makes me giggle when I see people perceive that 3/4 extended slider is being used for emphasizing the vocal where the music doesn't present. plz frosty... i know u hate that kind of stuff, but in this song, 1/2 ones r not that good as well... and that kind of way to set rhythms is really common ones in ranked maps ;w;

DakeDekaane wrote:

It's not just about the extended sliders, it's about the abuse of them, I mean, I don't like this "technique" but I don't say you must not use them at all, they could be used, but sparingly, because when you abuse of this, the ones that really could fit gets lost, as they wouldn't be that "unique". i know lots of mappers don't agree with that even bats like u, thou i still wanna keep them... ;w;

00:10:114 (1,2,3) - 00:14:979 (1,2,3) - uhm, I can see a lot of inconsistencies here, despite the music being similar. uh... must similiar song's part be set with similiar rhythm? orz
01:05:959 (7) - Also there's this kinda random triples, some of them are really intrusive and doesn't compliment the song at all, if you wanted to emphasize this, a bigger jump would've been better. 01:05:655 (6,7,1) - this pattern is just like 02:33:425 (8,9,1) - as a maybe consistencies thing or trick in this map?
01:25:114 (5) - This could be better as a 1/2 slider as you're passing over a stronger beat. i can agree with this, changed
01:26:331 (4) - ^ changed as well, and arranged 01:26:736 (1,2,3) - 's position to give a better ds setting with testing
02:11:736 (1,2) - I find this as a cool alternative when you want to create a hold feeling. various patterns maybe, people can select by themselves imo w
02:31:196 - 02:50:655 - This part is ridiculous, song isn't that dense on beats yet you have a lot of 1/4 stuff. just same ones as i mentioned

This is just some of the things I caught on first look, so take this just as my point of view. ok. thou actually i know DakeDekaane u hate 1/4 everywhere, still thx if u can accept them even exist
Good luck. >.<

Melophobia wrote:

I love how you ignored my suggestion. i'm so sorry that i haven't reply ur mods and even forgot to give a check, i apologize, seriously. plz give a chance to explain: when i check those unqualified issues, it's about 4:30 a.m. in cn time zone and i'm just too tired to give a move. it's my bad to post those feedback in a hurry and just missed ur words... i'm sure there's something wrong with me at that time orz, plz forgive me ;w;

changed, thou i got really surprised that ranked map's source can't be ranked

Things ain't what they used to be, there's a good chance that they have something wrong (Apparently in this case the source was just overlooked though) Keep in mind that you shouldn't refer to ranked maps blindly. i see, next time i'll take metadata's setting in detail checks to make sure nothing goes wrong before ranking

I would like to bother you with metadata issue a little more..
1) There's Chinese characters in the tags, replace 廢怯少女 with 魔法少女. http://puu.sh/bHyNJ/f2792bc0a6.jpg ←the original title here lol, thou i know it's "魔法" but look at this words! it's really like 廢怯 www. and another thing, "魔法" in japanese is still written as "魔法" in chinese, it's just that odd font to force me change this... if "魔法" is ok as it's true meaning in that title and to the rank system in tags, ofc why not fix this w
2)"Yuki" is duplicate, remove one of them. fixed
3) Add the romanized source; Gekijouban Mahoushoujo Madoka Magica [Shinpen] Hangyaku no Monogatari" into the tags. These pretty much put every metadata in order. fixed
Good luck on the way. :3 apologize to u again thou orz

Minakami Yuki wrote:

I RECOMMEND TO CHANGE [MINAKAMI YUKI] TO MINAKAMI YUKI IN THE SB THANKS

changed, yuki moe~

kamisamaaa wrote:

If HW use all 1/2 rhythm instead of 3/4, this map will not be a HW style.

kamisamaaa wrote:

If HW use all 1/2 rhythm instead of 3/4, this map will not be a HW style.

Guu wrote:

If 3/4 sliders were replaced by 1/2 ones, I won't love this map so much.

Kodora wrote:

Guu wrote:

If 3/4 sliders were replaced by 1/2 ones, I won't love this map so much.

koreapenguin wrote:

Help

Normal, Callab Hard

1. - fine to me

Insane

IRC Mod

2014-09-22 02:45 Hollow Wings: irc is fine imo?
2014-09-22 02:45 koreapenguin: yes
2014-09-22 02:45 Hollow Wings: ok~
2014-09-22 02:52 koreapenguin: 01:29:371 (6,7) -  about this
2014-09-22 02:53 on insane *
2014-09-22 02:53 Hollow Wings: hmm?
2014-09-22 02:53 Hollow Wings: yep
2014-09-22 02:54 Hollow Wings: 0.0
2014-09-22 02:54 koreapenguin: hum..
2014-09-22 02:56 koreapenguin: how about 01:28:763 (1) -  nc here, 01:28:155 (2) -  when do play that feel some weird
2014-09-22 02:57 Hollow Wings: and 01:31:196 (1) - as well right?
2014-09-22 02:57 koreapenguin: yea right same as
2014-09-22 02:57 Hollow Wings: 01:38:493 (3) - and 01:40:925 (3) - ?
2014-09-22 02:57 koreapenguin: it more better when do play
2014-09-22 02:58 Hollow Wings: ok
2014-09-22 02:58 koreapenguin: yes
2014-09-22 02:58 Hollow Wings: changed thou
2014-09-22 03:00 koreapenguin: 02:21:465 (1) - 
2014-09-22 03:00 koreapenguin: as song fit
2014-09-22 03:00 koreapenguin: that notes get jump is right
2014-09-22 03:00 koreapenguin: 02:21:465 (1) -  move on 02:21:871 (2) - slider head or other place
2014-09-22 03:02 Hollow Wings: oh
2014-09-22 03:02 koreapenguin: 02:25:925 (4) -  same this
2014-09-22 03:02 Hollow Wings: i think the jump here's fine
2014-09-22 03:02 koreapenguin: :3
2014-09-22 03:02 Hollow Wings: 02:22:681 (3,4) - u can have same pattern here
2014-09-22 03:02 Hollow Wings: some kind of ds shifting
2014-09-22 03:02 Hollow Wings: >.<
2014-09-22 03:02 koreapenguin: hum.
2014-09-22 03:03 koreapenguin: 02:22:681 (3) - how about move on 02:23:898 (1) -  this slider head
2014-09-22 03:04 Hollow Wings: lol seems u r serious about that don't u ww
2014-09-22 03:04 Hollow Wings: alright
2014-09-22 03:04 Hollow Wings: changed
2014-09-22 03:04 koreapenguin: :3
2014-09-22 03:04 Hollow Wings: but those slider's positions will be changed as well
2014-09-22 03:04 koreapenguin: ya
2014-09-22 03:06 koreapenguin: and i have same think with ticclick 
2014-09-22 03:06 koreapenguin: 02:36:061 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10) - this 
2014-09-22 03:07 Hollow Wings: odd to play?
2014-09-22 03:07 Hollow Wings: ok changed to another style
2014-09-22 03:07 koreapenguin: especially flow
2014-09-22 03:07 Hollow Wings: i know
2014-09-22 03:07 koreapenguin: :D
2014-09-22 03:08 koreapenguin: 02:42:141 (5,6,7) - 
2014-09-22 03:08 koreapenguin: http://puu.sh/bIdCN/5c30dd0090.jpg how about this
2014-09-22 03:09 koreapenguin: 02:42:446 (6,7,8) - 
2014-09-22 03:09 koreapenguin: you can feel song is gradually strong
2014-09-22 03:09 koreapenguin: about vocal
2014-09-22 03:09 koreapenguin: D: my bad english sorry
2014-09-22 03:09 koreapenguin: i hope your understanding T^T
2014-09-22 03:10 Hollow Wings: i understand
2014-09-22 03:10 koreapenguin: :D
2014-09-22 03:10 Hollow Wings: give a larger ds here
2014-09-22 03:10 Hollow Wings: sure
2014-09-22 03:11 koreapenguin: 02:49:034 (3,4) - ._.
2014-09-22 03:13 koreapenguin: 02:53:088 (1) -  http://puu.sh/bIdYc/c5801d131b.jpg it flow is better and,02:53:088 (1) -  as song fit, it must got jump
2014-09-22 03:13 koreapenguin: get*
2014-09-22 03:14 Hollow Wings: ok changed
2014-09-22 03:16 koreapenguin: 03:28:155 (3) -  how about keep using DS?
2014-09-22 03:16 koreapenguin: 1.8* ?
2014-09-22 03:16 koreapenguin: becuz
2014-09-22 03:16 koreapenguin: hum..
2014-09-22 03:17 Hollow Wings: 03:28:155 (3) - i'll just move this to 301,313
2014-09-22 03:17 koreapenguin: :D b
2014-09-22 03:17 Hollow Wings: i think it's better to u
2014-09-22 03:17 Hollow Wings: for theirs no special beats here
2014-09-22 03:17 Hollow Wings: is that ur meaning?
2014-09-22 03:18 koreapenguin: i don't know D:
2014-09-22 03:19 Hollow Wings: lol ok
2014-09-22 03:19 koreapenguin: and you don't must fix them D: it just my opinion D:
2014-09-22 03:20 koreapenguin: i don't want breaks your style
2014-09-22 03:20 Hollow Wings: i know
2014-09-22 03:20 Hollow Wings: i've reject one of ur mod already lol
2014-09-22 03:20 koreapenguin: xD
2014-09-22 03:21 koreapenguin: 03:45:182 (4,5) - got a big jump so 03:45:385 (5) - nc here it would be easier to play
2014-09-22 03:22 Hollow Wings: oh
2014-09-22 03:23 Hollow Wings: nc's not necessary here, thou those r big jumps, still easy to read those patterns
2014-09-22 03:23 Hollow Wings: so it's not that needed to spread patterns with nc imo
2014-09-22 03:23 koreapenguin: yap ;3
2014-09-22 03:23 koreapenguin: http://puu.sh/bIeP5/9bdc1e9892.png how about this :3 ?
2014-09-22 03:23 koreapenguin: 03:43:560 (1,2) - 
2014-09-22 03:24 Hollow Wings: ok
2014-09-22 03:24 Hollow Wings: changed but in another composing
2014-09-22 03:26 koreapenguin: 03:56:330 (1) - as song's fit place jump is better than close DS
2014-09-22 03:27 koreapenguin: some 04:00:992 (9,1) - like this, hear the song, not matched D:
2014-09-22 03:28 koreapenguin: so they play them will be confused
2014-09-22 03:28 Hollow Wings: 03:56:330 (1) - moved to 118,76
2014-09-22 03:28 koreapenguin: :3
2014-09-22 03:29 Hollow Wings: 04:00:992 (9) - moved to 477,121
2014-09-22 03:29 Hollow Wings: with these changes it'll be better imo
2014-09-22 03:29 koreapenguin: has many jumps map is fun but, hear song's fit and place jumps it more fun :3
2014-09-22 03:29 koreapenguin: 04:06:060 (1,2,3) -  orz
2014-09-22 03:30 Hollow Wings: i see
2014-09-22 03:30 koreapenguin: feel so weird you can makes more clearly
2014-09-22 03:30 Hollow Wings: thou the map's just like this now orz
2014-09-22 03:31 Hollow Wings: 04:06:060 (1,2,3) - this is just a pattern orz
2014-09-22 03:31 koreapenguin: if keep that pattern, 04:06:466 (3,4) - 
2014-09-22 03:31 koreapenguin: weird flow D;
2014-09-22 03:31 Hollow Wings: really common one in ranked maps nowadays
2014-09-22 03:33 koreapenguin: http://puu.sh/bIfB2/8318fb3720.jpg
2014-09-22 03:33 koreapenguin: 04:40:520 (2,1) - look so better :3
2014-09-22 03:33 koreapenguin: just my think
2014-09-22 03:34 Hollow Wings: see
2014-09-22 03:34 Hollow Wings: ok
2014-09-22 03:35 Hollow Wings: ohh
2014-09-22 03:35 Hollow Wings: it's really late here

Extra

1. 03:23:493 (1) - Ctrl+G is better, and for next note's flow wanna emphasis here with angled flow, so i choose keep it 0.0
2. 03:11:331 (4) - New combo here same as Insane for it its a really consistent part in this diff's set, no nc here to show that is better imo 0.0

that's all :3

HanzeR wrote:

Mapping isn't just putting notes in time with the music, mapping is about feeling, and Hollow Wings is a mapper for your heart.

HanzeR wrote:

Everyone keeps saying this is a calm song lol, its like you guys can't listen and feel the power that the song has and that this map is taking advantage of.

Mapping isn't just putting notes in time with the music, mapping is about feeling, and Hollow Wings is a mapper for your heart.

HanzeR wrote:

Everyone keeps saying this is a calm song lol, its like you guys can't listen and feel the power that the song has and that this map is taking advantage of.

Mapping isn't just putting notes in time with the music, mapping is about feeling, and Hollow Wings is a mapper for your heart.

[ Madoka ] wrote:

HanzeR wrote:

Everyone keeps saying this is a calm song lol, its like you guys can't listen and feel the power that the song has and that this map is taking advantage of.

Mapping isn't just putting notes in time with the music, mapping is about feeling, and Hollow Wings is a mapper for your heart.

but osu! is a rhythm game, not a hit objects with background music.

those wrote:

You DO realize that you're saying that to the person that mapped Miss You, right?
Or in other words, these words will be wasted

HanzeR wrote:

Everyone keeps saying this is a calm song lol, its like you guys can't listen and feel the power that the song has and that this map is taking advantage of.

Mapping isn't just putting notes in time with the music, mapping is about feeling, and Hollow Wings is a mapper for your heart.

[ Madoka ] wrote:

but a song shouldn't be mapped in a way that the rhythm is being altered or "improvised" in any way, shape or form by how the map itself plays out. Where's your appreciation of the original song? And if "additive mapping" is your alibi, or whatever it is, this map doesn't sound like it's being mapped "additively"(?) but more of an improvisation of the song which is not really an improvisation but a downgrade to many others since this is mostly reading "oh when's another 1/8 slider going to pop up" or "hey, when's another triple spaced stream or that other inconsistent spaced notes gonna show up?". I like the hitsounds, but how the map plays out.... SICKENS me to the stomach.

SPOILER

SPOILER

SPOILER

SPOILER

HanzeR wrote:

Everyone keeps saying this is a calm song lol, its like you guys can't listen and feel the power that the song has and that this map is taking advantage of.

Mapping isn't just putting notes in time with the music, mapping is about feeling, and Hollow Wings is a mapper for your heart.

Guu wrote:

I don't think the rhythm has been altered. Apperantly, many players said the additive things make the song more expressive. The only thing confused me at first was the varied SV, which is not a problem anymore after several play counts.
I can't see the necessity of complaining such a lot here to upset the mapper and those people who love this map. When there's something make you uncomfortable, it would be perfect if you could give some specific suggestions on improving.

kamisamaaa wrote:

I think you bats can ask for some experienced players' idea if this map suit for the music.
I feel this map can express the music nice when I'm playing, though the music is claim.

https://osu.ppy.sh/s/132586
this map is also use soooo many 3/4 but it get ranked.

[ Madoka ] wrote:

Sure. "additive mapping" or just overmapping or "putting unnecessary 1/4 sliders everywhere, inconsistent DS for triples and 1/2 rhythms, and random doubles everywhere." so expressive, ok. the problem with this is that many of these notes aren't even a part of the song.. especially with all the 1/4 sliders, triples, and doubles in the last kiai. It sure is expressive i'll give you that, but not everyone gets the same idea of the rhythm that is presented in this map since most of the rhythm is MADE UP, not based on the song. The only suggestion i could give is just follow the damn rhythm since i mean...

Not everyone gets the same idea -> someone likes the rhythm, if my interpretation is correct. Arguing that some people don't like the "made up" rhythm is not enough, in that it does not disprove the fact that other people may like the rhythm. What you have to show is that there exists some valid improvement that makes both parties of people appreciate the rhythm more, which you, through your impatient and rude "mod", failed to show.

"Follow the rhythm" is a vague statement which is always debatable. Unfortunately, the reality is that there are many ways to follow the "damn" rhythm for any single song and few mappers actually follow the rhythm note by note (the most simple examples are the added triples, which, unfortunately, is not a Hollow Wings invention neither). Many mods that tell the mapper to "follow the rhythm" are just an euphemism for "I would map the song this way but you didn't and I don't like the map so here is an convenient reason for you to listen to me and if you do not you suck because you break the rules".

I am not saying that all such mods are bad, good modders give such suggestions that improve the map in general and make all parties, including the mapper, those who love traditional note-by-note mapping and those who love creative mappings, happy. Bad modders exert their myopic beliefs upon the mapper, forcing the mapper to change towards something bad, pissing off people and never getting any improvement. Unfortunately, again, I feel that you belong to the latter group.

03:44:371 (2,3,4) - why is this here, how is this supported by the song? Well I may agree with you that this is not supported by the song, but I like the extra hitsounds here as the last kiai is supposed to be the most elevated one
04:03:324 (2) - why the hell is this here??? where is the sound of a triple? The flow slowed down at the previous notes and I feel this is a good way to get the flow accelerating again
04:09:101 (4,5,6) - ??????? !!!!!!
04:21:466 (4,1) - ????? !!!!!!
04:25:925 (1,2,3,4,1,2) - why are these all sliders? As far as I feel, when the slider ends are muted, they sound just like notes. Just treat those sliders as a way to control the flow and everything will make sense
04:30:182 (1) - why is this here when 04:29:979 (1) - could've just been a 3/4 or 1/1 slider? There is obviously a different between a constant speed flow and a sudden deceleration and the re-acceleration
04:32:006 (1) - why can't this just be a 1/2 repeat slider if it's going to emphasize the instrument? or at the very least make is circles close to each other since the instrument that's being emphasized here isn't even that loud.Why do we need to put jumps when 1x ds could emphasize all the beats? I do agree somehow that the spacing is too large, tho


just a quick look.. in the third kiai.. i would find a lot more of these in the previous kiais but cba to look for it.

kamisamaaa wrote:

I think you bats can ask for some experienced players' idea if this map suit for the music.
I feel this map can express the music nice when I'm playing, though the music is claim.

https://osu.ppy.sh/s/132586
this map is also use soooo many 3/4 but it get ranked.

this made me want to just obfszphks;lhjavpv[o. you can't compare a dubstep song with this song... they're completely different ffs. what gives you the idea that comparing both of these maps is a good idea anyways?

This is like saying we can't apply the rules in computing 1+1 into computing 2+2 since 1 and 2 are different numbers. Yes, music styles differ, but 3/4 sliders are used, in both songs, to emphasize prolonged notes (at least from my glance at both). A prolonged note is a prolonged note, no matter if its a violin one or an electronic one. If you are not satisfied, go to the ranked version of this song and 3/4 sliders is also used in this way.

Frostmourne wrote:

https://osu.ppy.sh/ss/2086821
http://puu.sh/bTRUG.osr wow pro >.<

Extra
00:56:331 (1,2) - This is difficult to guess and estimate which position is landing on. The previous rhythm on 00:53:898 (1,2,3) - guides that making 1/2 is the best and is corresponding. i see, thou i think the vocal's different in these two parts, i'll change this into 1/2 slider but keep the end at the same place

SPOILER

02:33:425 (8,9,1) - This flows quite difficult to move and feels forceful to do. Reducing its spacing to the like on 01:05:655 (6,7,1) - is better. (1.4x) ;w; ok, i admit it's some kind of forced to be like that, maybe it's just too excessived? fixed anyway
03:14:574 (1,1) - make them close to each other? possible to do it? if so, 03:15:790 (4,1) - this can be left because you fixed 03:14:574 (1,1) - so it guides players this direction changed as u said to both of them, and i hope the current one is good to u
03:41:736 (1,2) - make them close to each other as same as 03:39:304 (1,2) - or if you don't want that close, use around 2.3x as 03:40:520 (1,2) - did
It's nonsensical to have it end and force players to jump from 03:41:736 (1) - to 03:42:141 (2) - on such spacing. It's too easy to get x100 like a random.
Something like this is totally better and more comfortable to play. i completely agree with u, and i choose shorter the ds like u did as well

SPOILER

03:42:953 (1,2) - same as above, make them closer changed and changed the whole pattern after this as well, ofc with the correct ds
03:44:168 (1) - ctrl+h absolutely gives a better flow i've changed the pattern with the mod above, i think the flow's good now
04:00:587 (x) - should be a note and don't make jump like that, use this instead hmmmmm alright, but in different composing with similiar ds

SPOILER

04:01:601 (1) - shorten this slider by 1/4 to follow a significant sound of drum on 04:01:804. Following vocal here is like following something you can't predict as well as 00:56:331 (1,2) - right, changed rhythm and composing as well
04:02:412 (1,2) - same as above, and remove new combo on 04:03:020 (1) - after fixing changed
04:31:601 (1,2,1,2) - There is no need to make the last part cruel and break the combo just to piss people off.
You can adjust this way and let it flow with the 04:30:790 (1,2,1,2) - you did. my bad, changed the composing here, hope it can be better

SPOILER

I expect you to fix everything above. They are all of my critical playability concerns that I will never qualify anything containing these. yep, changed all
If you did fix everything above, I could be able to do something with this map after this. >.<

HanzeR wrote:

Everyone keeps saying this is a calm song lol, its like you guys can't listen and feel the power that the song has and that this map is taking advantage of.

Mapping isn't just putting notes in time with the music, mapping is about feeling, and Hollow Wings is a mapper for your heart.

I thought you were joking though, but it seems I can agree with you somehow. ;w;