So does this imply we are to expect a net pp loss overall after the next change?Tom94 wrote:
"I lost 2 pp what is happening OMGOMGOMG" threads (takes ~1 week)
So does this imply we are to expect a net pp loss overall after the next change?Tom94 wrote:
"I lost 2 pp what is happening OMGOMGOMG" threads (takes ~1 week)
Not necessarily, there're usually some people who gains pp while others lose pp for every calculation change. It's just that those who's gained pp after a change usually keeps quiet and grin, while those who's lost pp will go make threads/comments everywhere blaming the system being "stupid" =.=Woobowiz wrote:
So does this imply we are to expect a net pp loss overall after the next change?Tom94 wrote:
"I lost 2 pp what is happening OMGOMGOMG" threads (takes ~1 week)
Tom94 wrote:
1: Adjust the difficulty algorithm to hopefully fix things (takes thinking and code adjustments - variable from minutes to hours)Ivan wrote:
how long does it even take to do those kind of things ?
2: Calculate new difficulty for all ranked maps (takes a few hours)
3: Calculate new pp for a select amount of players for testing (takes from minutes to hours, depending on how many players)
4: Repeat at 1 if not satisfied with result (usually needs quite a few repetitions to fix / prevent undesired side effects of the changes)
5: Apply the new difficulty algorithm to _all_ maps (takes ~1 day)
6: Push the new difficulty algorithm into the osu! client so that ingame star rating aligns for online star rating (makes everyone recalculate star difficulty in song select, takes some minutes to hours depending on how many maps there are. Might make song select stutter a bit while in progress)
7: Re-calculate pp for every player and hope for as little as possible "I lost 2 pp what is happening OMGOMGOMG" threads (takes ~1 week)
Jesse top 100 the dream incoming.Tom94 wrote:
The proposed max combo scaling would be an improvement over the pp system, but considering the effort it would take to implement it (adding it to the difficulty calculator, storing some kind of approximation of the combo scaling graph in the database etc.) other gamemodes should still be at a higher priority at the moment I think.Drezi wrote:
Well, we discussed a few of ideas here that have potential imo, I'd be interested in seeing some kind of feedback at this point.
From my tests with alternative weighting of scores I still find that the current weight performs best, so there likely won't be a change in that regard.
Judging from other general feedback in here my general plans for standard are to slightly increase the value of small hitcircles, weight fast streams a bit higher compared to spaced streams and improve the accuracy weighting formula to better represent a probabilistic model. I think those changes would improve the current situation commonly perceived as "hardrock needs to be buffed versus doubletime".
I've been occupied with other things than osu! in the last few weeks and I don't know when I will find the time to further tune pp again, but I am still regularily reading the posts in the feedback threads.
Christmas came early this year.Tom94 wrote:
Judging from other general feedback in here my general plans for standard are to slightly increase the value of small hitcircles, weight fast streams a bit higher compared to spaced streams and improve the accuracy weighting formula to better represent a probabilistic model. I think those changes would improve the current situation commonly perceived as "hardrock needs to be buffed versus doubletime".
The time between your top plays and their accuracies are hella suspicious yoakinator127 wrote:
Problem Details: I SSed a map with NC and in my top ranks it says 202pp, however I gained absolutely no pp at all. Why is this?
Map link: https://osu.ppy.sh/b/443272?m=0
osu! version: 20140924.1
What, who said that? I think they told him to post in in Gameplay & Rankings, but he posted it in this instead of the general G&Rsilmarilen wrote:
it was, and there they said to post it here
Well they chose the wrong place to redirect to, also not a Mod so he's even less crediblesilmarilen wrote:
https://osu.ppy.sh/forum/p/3404843
links directly to this thread
4.3% is MASSIVE, I'd say that should be the right amount of pp.Drezi wrote:
Well, you wanted examples of HDHR where we feel it's undervalued, so here, to me this feels kinda wrong, I mean I know my acc on that HDHR play is bad, but still I could FC this song nomod like ages ago, and this same play, same timing of hits would be way higher acc if it was on OD8 not OD10.
What was the UR for each play if you can check? If you had similar accuracy for each and the difference of 4% acc was caused by the OD change, I feel it is undervalued. The smaller circles + use of hidden should give a benefit.Drezi wrote:
Well, you wanted examples of HDHR where we feel it's undervalued, so here, to me this feels kinda wrong, I mean I know my acc on that HDHR play is bad, but still I could FC this song nomod like ages ago, and this same play, same timing of hits would be way higher acc if it was on OD8 not OD10.
Like I wrote above, the use of hidden and extra aim should give a bonus. It's a similar play but there should still be quite a difference.GoldenWolf wrote:
quick rule of thumb that works for me;
SS OD8 = 98% OD9 = 96% OD10
So it's no surprise you got no pp from... basically the same play.
Well, that's exactly what I said, we agree here. I said it shouldn't give less either, it should be the same.Riince wrote:
higher od shouldnt give more accpp than a nomod play just because its higher od but only when the player is already hitting more accurately than the lower od can show.
That's a great example, and so true. Easy to see, almost EVERYONE has that Darren Korb song in their top performances around my rank, and generally DT plays only, hardly anyone has any HR plays, you're crazy if you think that Shotgun Senorita play is of the same difficulty.Tess wrote:
Also, if you want a good example of HR being undervaued;
I could get that DT score 10x over in the time it took me to get that HR score, and I mostly play HR.
Oh, that's right, this is true and Tom hasn't addressed this rhythm complexity issue, while it's obviously something to consider. Full Tablet posted an approach that looked good.silmarilen wrote:
but they are all 1/2 notes, so easy to acc
This is why i mentioned the doubles earlier, doubles and other complex rhythms really deserve special attention, and it shouldn't be hard to recognize them (definitely easier than recognizing visual patterns) so there has to be a way to incorporate them. This way maps like this https://osu.ppy.sh/s/115011 and this https://osu.ppy.sh/b/171678&m=1 might actually get the value they deserve.Drezi wrote:
Oh, that's right, this is true and Tom hasn't addressed this rhythm complexity issue, while it's obviously something to consider. Full Tablet posted an approach that looked good.silmarilen wrote:
but they are all 1/2 notes, so easy to acc
t/246378bolt997 wrote:
Problem Details:
I was rank 9244 yesterday, and today i was rank 9861.
I'm very sure i didn't FC a qualified song that returned to pending,
all the songs i FCed yesterday are still ranked and I'm wondering where this 60pp decrease came from.
As you can see, the ranked score, the number of plays, total hits all stayed the same, somehow my accuracy increased.
Please tell me what is the problem, and if it is a miscalculation on osu's part please don't let my hardwork go to waste.
I apologize for the sudden change in topic but i was told if i had pp issues, this is the place.
Video or screenshot showing the problem:
Tom94 wrote:
t/246378bolt997 wrote:
Problem Details:
I was rank 9244 yesterday, and today i was rank 9861.
I'm very sure i didn't FC a qualified song that returned to pending,
all the songs i FCed yesterday are still ranked and I'm wondering where this 60pp decrease came from.
As you can see, the ranked score, the number of plays, total hits all stayed the same, somehow my accuracy increased.
Please tell me what is the problem, and if it is a miscalculation on osu's part please don't let my hardwork go to waste.
I apologize for the sudden change in topic but i was told if i had pp issues, this is the place.
Video or screenshot showing the problem:
You still have to add other factors like OD, number of circles, object count and aim value though. The star rating can't really do that just yet, we'll have to wait.Tess wrote:
I hope I'm not the only one that noticed that there's a huge flaw with the star system. At first I thought that HR was just underrated (which it is) but the amount of stars shown on a map have hardly anything to do with the amount of pp it gives, and that's just bad. Proof:
Take a look at these two plays. Nightmare is clearly worth more pp, seeing as I got a similar amount to Coloring with 1.37% less accuracy.
Now look at this and this. Notice anything? The HR one is 0.2 stars lower than the DT one, even if it gives a lot more pp. This should really be looked into, it's not like you can deny those numbers. All maps of an x amount of stars should give an x amount of pp. If map A is 5 stars and gives 200 pp for an SS, map B of 5 stars should give 200pp as well, and so should any other 5 star map. The star system is meaningless otherwise.
I'm pretty sure Tom is looking to incorporate map length, od and ar into star difficulty which it currently isn't. It's never been claimed that star difficulty is a perfect indicator of how much pp a map will give, it's only a guide. It sounds as if you think that star difficulty is meant to show pp output perfectly, which may be the intention and may happen in the future but it's well known that at the moment that it doesn't reflect on a maps pp perfectly.Tess wrote:
I hope I'm not the only one that noticed that there's a huge flaw with the star system. At first I thought that HR was just underrated (which it is) but the amount of stars shown on a map have hardly anything to do with the amount of pp it gives, and that's just bad. Proof:
Take a look at these two plays. Nightmare is clearly worth more pp, seeing as I got a similar amount to Coloring with 1.37% less accuracy.
Now look at this and this. Notice anything? The HR one is 0.2 stars lower than the DT one, even if it gives a lot more pp. This should really be looked into, it's not like you can deny those numbers. All maps of an x amount of stars should give an x amount of pp. If map A is 5 stars and gives 200 pp for an SS, map B of 5 stars should give 200pp as well, and so should any other 5 star map. The star system is meaningless otherwise.
You're pathetic. I thought you were a smart person until this post which is just a blatant attack with absolutely no reasoning behind it. YOU PLAY TV SIZE DT THEREFORE YOU DON'T HAVE AN OPINION XDDDD. I also only have 3 tv size dt scores in my top 20. Please...Tess wrote:
...Have you ever played HR? Everything you said was really reasonable up to that last sentence.
Edit: Checked your profile and wow, what a surprise. A TV size DT player saying that OD and map length doesn't really make a map harder to play.