RUMIA DON'T LISTEN TO THEM STOP DELETING YOUR MAPS
rip nekowaltz ;_;
rip nekowaltz ;_;
lol sorry i was distracted by kamikaze's banner lololPyaKura wrote:
@Rumia : note that some anime maps aren't boring though (hello DJP's only my railgun), but most are. I didn't mean it as stop mapping anime stuff altogether.
(Btw this has nothing to do with the current topic)
Yes, I would really want to know why Ghost diff isn't ranked? No valid reason? Is that it?Aqo wrote:
okGabe wrote:
mapping themhahahahahaGabe wrote:
get them ranked.
so now are we supposed to ask why Workaholic took over a year to rank and on top of this [Ghost] isn't ranked with no valid reason from a BAT? rip Agka. The problem isn't in the mappers, it's in the dysfunctional ranking system. Nobody has motivation to try to rank harder maps because the system for it is flawed at the moment, that's what's being asked to address here.
I WON'T RANK IT UNTIL IT WILL BE KEYSOUNDED ;_;PyaKura wrote:
Rank End Time nao
NOMINAET MOAR O!M BATS NAO
Roxas wrote:
That diff was overmapped, and other BATs agree with me.
Here's a question.Roxas wrote:
About Workaholic, I clearly said the reason to Agka. That diff was overmapped, and other BATs agree with me. I told him he could adjust the overmapped parts but at the end he removed Ghost diff (he thought it would be too hard for osu!mania community).
About ranking ET maps: we can freely rank them if they have a good spread and they're not overmapped, we might just say "omg so hard" but that doesn't mean it's not rankable.
Still, some overmapped charts are way consuming your stamina in terms of note density and weird patterns that you couldn't think of. But either way, it's pretty much makes sense to me as it provides advanced/ET players getting interested on playing them.Bobbias wrote:
You know, I've been wondering for a long time, why something being overmapped suddenly disqualifies it from being rankable. There's nothing saying that overmapped difficulties cannot be fun, nor is there anything preventing them from being considered perfectly acceptable and playable by good players.
I've played MANY maps that are very clearly overmapped; some of them are very good, and some of them are absolutely cringeworthy. I would say it's much harder to create a good overmapped chart, but I would never say that being overmapped automatically disqualifies a map from being well put together.
Bobbias wrote:
You know, I've been wondering for a long time, why something being overmapped suddenly disqualifies it from being rankable. There's nothing saying that overmapped difficulties cannot be fun, nor is there anything preventing them from being considered perfectly acceptable and playable by good players
ThisDrace wrote:
Basically, everyone is saying is the term "overmapped" is extremely subjective and convoluted. Some more concrete criteria for higher level maps should be discussed to avoid disputes and clashing views on this matter in the future.
An example of what I mean is IN2K6. Let's be honest BATs, if that map wasn't key-sounded to clearly dictate what sound every note was associated with, it would of been pushed aside with the label "overmapped" with no further explanation.
If you define "overmapped" as a section that has more notes than sounds, then right here we already stumble into problems. Should musical chords be considered a note? Or can they be represented as chords too? Should they equal the exact amount of notes as the musical chord? How could the average mapper possibly tell? Then drums come in, then baseline comes in, then superposing melody comes in, then SE comes in and before we know it, we can "rightfully" liter a map with all-press chords all over the place.
Does this result is a good map? Of course it doesn't, all-presses all over the completely removes the sense of musicality from the map.
So should a map be considered "overmapped" when there's so much notes one cannot properly get a matching feel of the music from it? But here too we encounter subjective problems. The average players look at overjoy maps as spam, they read it as dense spam, they try to play it by spamming. If the overjoy players didn't exist, they'd would wholeheartedly believe the map IS spam, devoid of any musical sense matching the music in question.
But the overjoy players sees rhythm and musicality in those maps just fine, it's a completely subjective issue.
I believe we should instead break down why we don't want so called "overmapped" maps ranked, and use the deconstructed reasons to form more concrete rules on this matter.
It's an osu! rule. Overmap = unrankable. I can't do anything, I'm not the one who creates rules... I mean, overmapping doesn't mean that the map is too hard for being played, but there are notes when there's no sound and you don't create it with hitsounds.Bobbias wrote:
You know, I've been wondering for a long time, why something being overmapped suddenly disqualifies it from being rankable. There's nothing saying that overmapped difficulties cannot be fun, nor is there anything preventing them from being considered perfectly acceptable and playable by good players.
I've played MANY maps that are very clearly overmapped; some of them are very good, and some of them are absolutely cringeworthy. I would say it's much harder to create a good overmapped chart, but I would never say that being overmapped automatically disqualifies a map from being well put together.
As I said above, it's a fact of game rules, not of difficulty.ishimaru94 wrote:
Here's a question.
What if that overmapped diff can easily be tackled/pass by those advanced/ET players? Doesn't it make them rankable for it?
Again, as above xDishimaru94 wrote:
Maybe, you could mean that this one overmapped diff must have at least 1-2 players for testplay and passed or SS it so that the whole mapset + overmapped diff can be rankable, is it?
It applies for mania too (asked confirming about this) and maybe in other game modes too.PyaKura wrote:
This RC is mostly for std. Do you guys actually know how many people are capable of playing "overmapped" maps without having any troubles ? Sure they aren't a lot, but they aren't few either. As long as this so-called overmapping makes sense, I don't have any problem with it.
I personally didn't check IN2K6, but if he create sounds with EVERY note (this means he's not putting silent hitsounds) it's fine aswell.Drace wrote:
Basically, everyone is saying is the term "overmapped" is extremely subjective and convoluted. Some more concrete criteria for higher level maps should be discussed to avoid disputes and clashing views on this matter in the future.
An example of what I mean is IN2K6. Let's be honest BATs, if that map wasn't key-sounded to clearly dictate what sound every note was associated with, it would of been pushed aside with the label "overmapped" with no further explanation.
I define "overmapped" or "overnoted" as a precise instant of the map where there's one or more note when there's no sound and you don't create a sound through hitsounds. And if you have a chord you can put 1, 2, 3, 4 notes in that chord, it's almost impossible to know how many notes there are in that chords because there doesn't exist sheets for every song. So, you can emphasize your chord, but it should fit. I mean that you can't have a piano song where, when there's a mid-power chord (2-3 notes apparently) you put 6 notes and when there's an high-power chord (4-5 notes apparently) you put only 3 notes, if you follow/there's only piano. There should be a good consistency/proportion. (Some terms like "mid-power" might be incorrect about music and piano, but I hope I explained well myself)Drace wrote:
If you define "overmapped" as a section that has more notes than sounds, then right here we already stumble into problems. Should musical chords be considered a note? Or can they be represented as chords too? Should they equal the exact amount of notes as the musical chord? How could the average mapper possibly tell? Then drums come in, then baseline comes in, then superposing melody comes in, then SE comes in and before we know it, we can "rightfully" liter a map with all-press chords all over the place.
Nah, it can't be considered like that, because as you said it's something subjective.Drace wrote:
So should a map be considered "overmapped" when there's so much notes one cannot properly get a matching feel of the music from it? But here too we encounter subjective problems. The average players look at overjoy maps as spam, they read it as dense spam, they try to play it by spamming. If the overjoy players didn't exist, they'd would wholeheartedly believe the map IS spam, devoid of any musical sense matching the music in question.
Game rules. osu! is created for following sounds and create other sounds with hitsounds.Drace wrote:
I believe we should instead break down why we don't want so called "overmapped" maps ranked, and use the deconstructed reasons to form more concrete rules on this matter.
And I believe o!m is kind of game about creating sound, not following itRoxas wrote:
Game rules. osu! is created for following sounds and create other sounds with hitsounds.
This rule is for std right? If so, we should have CLEAR new rules on what overmapping means for mania. You can't simply translate rules from std into mania as they are completely different games.Roxas wrote:
It's an osu! rule. Overmap = unrankable. I can't do anything, I'm not the one who creates rules... I mean, overmapping doesn't mean that the map is too hard for being played, but there are notes when there's no sound and you don't create it with hitsounds.
I think Drace means you wouldn't have been able to hear all of the differences of all the instruments clearly, thus you would probably think not every note is mapped to an audible instrument and consider it overmapped.Roxas wrote:
I personally didn't check IN2K6, but if he create sounds with EVERY note (this means he's not putting silent hitsounds) it's fine aswell.
Well, it's not good if every BAT just makes up his own definition of 'overmapped'. I think we need clear mania specific rules about this like I explained earlier.Roxas wrote:
I define "overmapped" or "overnoted" as a precise instant of the map where there's one or more note when there's no sound and you don't create a sound through hitsounds. And if you have a chord you can put 1, 2, 3, 4 notes in that chord, it's almost impossible to know how many notes there are in that chords because there doesn't exist sheets for every song. So, you can emphasize your chord, but it should fit. I mean that you can't have a piano song where, when there's a mid-power chord (2-3 notes apparently) you put 6 notes and when there's an high-power chord (4-5 notes apparently) you put only 3 notes, if you follow/there's only piano. There should be a good consistency/proportion. (Some terms like "mid-power" might be incorrect about music and piano, but I hope I explained well myself)
osu!mania doesn't follow sounds nearly as well as bms charts do, yet osu!mania proper harder diffs of a respectable technical mapper like Agka get denied.Roxas wrote:
osu! is created for following sounds and create other sounds with hitsounds. Well, I personally allow "intuitive overmap" as you call it in certain cases. With that I mean, for example, those 1/4 notes where there's a redundancy note (with really low volume too) or where, in a similar pattern before, there was the 1/4 note (with sound, obviously).
Never happened this. This would be ridicolous.Xcrypt wrote:
They make up excuses in order to call that map overmapped, just because they feel like it's too hard.
Don't worry. I know you are not here for offending anyone, we are only discussing.Xcrypt wrote:
Either way, I hope you don't see this as an offense but maybe a way to rethink the definition of 'overmapped' in mania.