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Performance Points feedback and suggestions (Standard)

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Michi
No complaints from my end so far. :D
Purple
Congrats @ rrtyui

I have about 10+ full combos, yet half my top scores on my profile are B's and what-not. Even then my rank went up. Also, I have a couple of non-fc AR11 scores, which makes me thinks those give a significant amount of pp, but my AR11 FC's are nowhere to be seen, which is kinda of strange.

Edit: And I swear to god, Remote Control's difficulty is being overestimated a bit TOO much.
Yarissa
It's great so far and I'm sorry for making a fuss over it before. Guess I shoulda trusted peppy to deliver!

I'm just glad my rank isn't absolute shit. Maybe if I can get back into double digits on this system....

Now that we know he can actually release things, I'm eager to see the other things he has planned for the future of osu! He was excited about those, so I am too! :D

I feel like a kid though, complaining and making threads until things appear satisfactory. Apologies for all the fuss

And thanks for doing a good job peppy!
dukambe
Rank on user profile not the same as rank on performance page/country page, which i guess is because of some hidden players. (Example: dragonhuman #8 and #4 country on profile, #6 on performance and #2 on country page)

Also what happens if i get a higher performance on a song where i already had a ranking. Just for example if i have HD+HR on Remote Control and then DT fc it, would the DT fc count?
Purple

dukambe wrote:

Rank on user profile not the same as rank on performance page/country page, which i guess is because of some hidden players. (Example: dragonhuman #8 and #4 country on profile, #6 on performance and #2 on country page)

Also what happens if i get a higher performance on a song where i already had a ranking. Just for example if i have HD+HR on Remote Control and then DT fc it, would the DT fc count?
Only if you beat your old score
Soarezi

dukambe wrote:

Rank on user profile not the same as rank on performance page/country page, which i guess is because of some hidden players. (Example: dragonhuman #8 and #4 country on profile, #6 on performance and #2 on country page)

Also what happens if i get a higher performance on a song where i already had a ranking. Just for example if i have HD+HR on Remote Control and then DT fc it, would the DT fc count?
no if you dont pass your hd hr score
dukambe
Well, imo it should count, but sucks for the HD+HR players i guess..
Soarezi

dukambe wrote:

Well, imo it should count, but sucks for the HD+HR players i guess..
i doubt any of the current hd hr players on remote control could dt fc it anyways
Topic Starter
Tom94

dukambe wrote:

Rank on user profile not the same as rank on performance page/country page, which i guess is because of some hidden players. (Example: dragonhuman #8 and #4 country on profile, #6 on performance and #2 on country page)

Also what happens if i get a higher performance on a song where i already had a ranking. Just for example if i have HD+HR on Remote Control and then DT fc it, would the DT fc count?
The rank which has a higher score will count, that is the one which will end up marked as your best in the ingame scoreboard.
Sayuki
The new performance ranking is better than the old. Finally we have a good ranking.
Yarissa

Tom94 wrote:

dukambe wrote:

Rank on user profile not the same as rank on performance page/country page, which i guess is because of some hidden players. (Example: dragonhuman #8 and #4 country on profile, #6 on performance and #2 on country page)

Also what happens if i get a higher performance on a song where i already had a ranking. Just for example if i have HD+HR on Remote Control and then DT fc it, would the DT fc count?
The rank which has a higher score will count, that is the one which will end up marked as your best in the ingame scoreboard.
Silynn had a feature request for wiping scores intentionally, so that you could outrank yourself with better mods. I think score is still a really deprecated metric and shouldn't really be favored in situations outside of tournament play. It could make ppv2 a little more accurate if you chose to rank scores that way
Purple

dukambe wrote:

Well, imo it should count, but sucks for the HD+HR players i guess..
Thats entirely what HD is for. HR not enough to surpass HD plays? Use HDHR. DT not enough to surpass HDHR? Use DTHD.
Senryakku
I feel like there is some sort of justice with this update
dukambe

Soarezi wrote:

dukambe wrote:

Well, imo it should count, but sucks for the HD+HR players i guess..
i doubt any of the current hd hr players on remote control could dt fc it anyways
That was just an extreme example, i guess it makes more sense if for example i have a normal FC on a song and then DT fc with slider break or 1 miss which is worth alot more in PP but less in score. So isn't that weird that the "better" performance score isn't counted because the "worse" score is worth more? Would make more sense to just use one ranking (PP) for everything.

Edit: And if WWW had fcd Remote Control with HR/HD/Normal before, his DT score would never have counted, which is now his #1 performance.
Spyrunite
So to me it seems the way you would "grind" ppv2 is by getting full combo on fast, insane maps. That seems fairly good to me, something actually skillful being judged.
Kert
http://osu.ppy.sh/b/269963?m=0 - random DT gives more points than
http://osu.ppy.sh/b/96095?m=0 with HR

http://osu.ppy.sh/b/49067?m=0 gives way too much points, cosnsidering it's a lot easier than any of the above

In general I feel that DT gives qute a lot more than it should and HR on really small circles isn't as rewarding

And also FL?
FL is not favoured at all?
http://osu.ppy.sh/s/18156 - this must be one of my top plays, yet it's nowhere close
(my assumption is results are ordered almost in the same way as in tp)
nya10
It seems right to me, if I'm seeing my country top ranks. Well done :D

Also my top performance now seems right, not silly hard or normal there anymore :D
*FC'ed artcore jinja lunatic and didn't get pp seems wrong to me before*
Ziggo

Kert wrote:

SPOILER
http://osu.ppy.sh/b/269963?m=0 - random DT gives more points than
http://osu.ppy.sh/b/96095?m=0 with HR

http://osu.ppy.sh/b/49067?m=0 gives way too much points, cosnsidering it's a lot easier than any of the above

In general I feel that DT gives qute a lot more than it should and HR on really small circles isn't as rewarding

And also FL?
FL is not favoured at all?
http://osu.ppy.sh/s/18156 - this must be one of my top plays, yet it's nowhere close
(my assumption is results are ordered almost in the same way as in tp)
I agree to everything you've said. Also, I believe the actual rank of a score should be considered as well. This would indirectly increase the value of mods like FL and getting good accuracy on maps with complicated patterns.
Sync
well I'll be damned.

Nice to know you guys are collaborating!
TheLukay
i lost a shitload of ranks an my best performances are some weird stuff but nvm ._.
Myke B
gogo remote control~ :P
Yarissa
I'm curious to know.... Tom, do you know if peppy plans on releasing the algorithm for ppv2 ranks? Tp was public and I don't know how much you guys collaborated on the new ranking system. If they're anything similar I don't think it would be too big of a problem to make it public. I'm still curious about how peppy is going to deal with the feedback and how things will end up after any tweaks down the road
Omgforz
Taking rank into consideration is just going to please all hidden and FL players, but will shit on everyone else.
Topic Starter
Tom94

Kert wrote:

http://osu.ppy.sh/b/269963?m=0 - random DT gives more points than
http://osu.ppy.sh/b/96095?m=0 with HR

http://osu.ppy.sh/b/49067?m=0 gives way too much points, cosnsidering it's a lot easier than any of the above

In general I feel that DT gives qute a lot more than it should and HR on really small circles isn't as rewarding

And also FL?
FL is not favoured at all?
http://osu.ppy.sh/s/18156 - this must be one of my top plays, yet it's nowhere close
(my assumption is results are ordered almost in the same way as in tp)
FL gives a huge bonus on maps which are hard to aim. I am tallking about a 36% increase. However if the movement of the map you played is not that complicated, then even FL won't be able to pull it up by much. I've already been considering to increase FL's bonus even further in the past, since it makes aiming so much harder.

As for the HR rank vs your DT rank. I believe they are both very good and will keep tweaking the difficulty algorithm. It's hard to calll one of them both better than the other with good reasoning.


Ziggo wrote:

I agree to everything you've said. Also, I believe the actual rank of a score should be considered as well. This would indirectly increase the value of mods like FL and getting good accuracy on maps with complicated patterns.
This has been considered, but there are just too many cases where the scoring system fails in my opinion. Even having a small contribution could be fatal for some scores. As I said earlier, I am already thinking about way to increase the vallue of FlashLight without making it "overpowered" on harder maps. Pattern difficulty is not yet implemented but definitely planned.
Minihanky
I would appreciate it, if we can have access to the list where our songs who counts in the pp system are listed ;) So we can better our accuracy or our score on that maps :D
Topic Starter
Tom94

Minihanky wrote:

I would appreciate it, if we can have access to the list where our songs who counts in the pp system are listed ;) So we can better our accuracy or our score on that maps :D
Your 10 best scores are listed in your profile in the "Top Ranks" tab.
XGeneral2000

Tom94 wrote:

Your 10 best scores are listed in your profile in the "Top Ranks" tab.
I wonder, would it be possible to add a score's pp value to the client? So we could see the pp contribution to every score in-game?
Liiraye

Tom94 wrote:

Minihanky wrote:

I would appreciate it, if we can have access to the list where our songs who counts in the pp system are listed ;) So we can better our accuracy or our score on that maps :D
Your 10 best scores are listed in your profile in the "Top Ranks" tab.

They are far from the best. How can various top 15 scores be neglected and make room for a rank 1000 A rank? :s
Topic Starter
Tom94

XGeneral2000 wrote:

Tom94 wrote:

Your 10 best scores are listed in your profile in the "Top Ranks" tab.
I wonder, would it be possible to add a score's pp value to the client? So we could see the pp contribution to every score in-game?
It is being considered. Can't say more yet, though.
R45eytx5
I'm really satisfied with the new system. I felt as a pp farmer in the previous one but now its just about perfectly placed me and almost every others (imo) on our small country ranking. Good job!
Yarissa
Liiraye, I don't think this system takes your rank on the song into consideration. It may take relativity in consideration (like older versions of ppv2) but just because you set a highscore/ top 15 on a song does not mean it's considered your most skillful play. And if you don't consider them some of your best plays, it IS a new system. Don't expect perfection yet. It looks great as it is so far but I expect a lot of tweaking for the next few months
Kert

Tom94 wrote:

As for the HR rank vs your DT rank. I believe they are both very good and will keep tweaking the difficulty algorithm. It's hard to calll one of them both better than the other with good reasoning.
I've spent more than a few hundred tries (not all at once of course) to FC that HR map, but managed to do DT in around 15
I really believe it's because of very small circles which makes you miss a lot more often (it's CS6 with HR)

Ah, btw I forgot mentioning TAG maps
It's probably hard to take them into a count, but I'd like to see this tweaked too
tom_7
I just played a beatmap from 'best performance' tab and while passing it on hd and getting rank #5600~ (was #6400~ before no mods) I lost 1 pp. Is it normal?
TakuMii
Just a question: will the new PP difficulty algorithm be replacing the current in-game star difficulty rating in the future?
RaneFire

YayMii wrote:

Just a question: will the new PP difficulty algorithm be replacing the current in-game star difficulty rating in the future?
And is there any way to integrate this with the client for beatmaps existing/already downloaded? So we can sort by difficulty in song select and it would be accurate?

Or is that what you meant?
mmnah
Will there be an update to the current ingame or website UI in order to integrate the PP metrics?

What i mean is:
- A number before the map's title in the "Best Performance" section that shows how much pp you got from a play;
- An expansion to the "Best Performance" section (10 plays isn't that much);
- A way to see the "difficulty line" regarding to one or the other mod (i.e. to see how "hard" the song is if i play it with DT);
- A way to see how much pp you got from a particular play in game;
- A way to "sort" records by pp (like you can do it now - by country or by particular mod);

Basically most of the things the osu!tp has now.

Sorry for my english in advance.
Catgirl
I haven't browsed the thread, so most of this has probably already been said, but here's my thoughts.

I like this system a lot more than the old system. I dropped from around rank 57k to 94k, so I'm not a very skilled player like most people here. But my 57k rank was very flawed. Almost all of my pp under the old system came from a single old map that hardly anyone was able to full combo (not because of difficulty, but from the poor quality of the map). It was also nearly impossible for me to ever gain any ranks since I couldn't get high enough ranks on songs unless I played maps that were not very commonly played.

This seems to be remedied now, as several of my top performances were not on the list before because they were as low as rank #5000 on the song or lower. I feel some of these were truly my "best performances", even though they are on more popular maps, and it is really nice to see them factoring into the calculations now.

I don't care about a specific number for my ranking, but seeing as it's potentially easier for someone of my skill to go up in rankings, this should give me more motivation to get better since I can see actual progress now. Keep up the good work!
Saoji
It's great.
Tarix
Osu! TP map level underneath the beatmap name + AR/OD/HP stats.

Just like this just underneath the beatmap ingame ^
Example :
Tom94BESTDJEU - PEPPY NEW PP RANKING(=BEST!) [Tom94 remix]
OD: 10 HP : 8 AR : 10 CS : XXX Aim : XXX Speed : xxx
BPM : xxx circles : xxx sliders : xxx spinners : xxx
Spyrunite
If they were to implement that I would imagine it would come with the redesign of he profile pages peppy said he was working on.
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