Guest
home
beatmaps
rankings
community
store
help
forum
  1. Forums
  2. osu!
  3. Gameplay & Rankings

Performance Points feedback and suggestions (Standard)

posted
Total Posts
2,750
show more
dukambe
88 posts
Joined May 2011
dukambe

Soarezi wrote:

dukambe wrote:

Well, imo it should count, but sucks for the HD+HR players i guess..
i doubt any of the current hd hr players on remote control could dt fc it anyways
That was just an extreme example, i guess it makes more sense if for example i have a normal FC on a song and then DT fc with slider break or 1 miss which is worth alot more in PP but less in score. So isn't that weird that the "better" performance score isn't counted because the "worse" score is worth more? Would make more sense to just use one ranking (PP) for everything.

Edit: And if WWW had fcd Remote Control with HR/HD/Normal before, his DT score would never have counted, which is now his #1 performance.
Last edited by dukambe , edited 1 time in total.
Spyrunite
99 posts
Joined August 2012
Spyrunite
So to me it seems the way you would "grind" ppv2 is by getting full combo on fast, insane maps. That seems fairly good to me, something actually skillful being judged.
Kert
2,079 posts
Joined June 2009
Kert
http://osu.ppy.sh/b/269963?m=0 - random DT gives more points than
http://osu.ppy.sh/b/96095?m=0 with HR

http://osu.ppy.sh/b/49067?m=0 gives way too much points, cosnsidering it's a lot easier than any of the above

In general I feel that DT gives qute a lot more than it should and HR on really small circles isn't as rewarding

And also FL?
FL is not favoured at all?
http://osu.ppy.sh/s/18156 - this must be one of my top plays, yet it's nowhere close
(my assumption is results are ordered almost in the same way as in tp)
nya10
979 posts
Joined February 2012
nya10
It seems right to me, if I'm seeing my country top ranks. Well done :D

Also my top performance now seems right, not silly hard or normal there anymore :D
*FC'ed artcore jinja lunatic and didn't get pp seems wrong to me before*
Ziggo
121 posts
Joined March 2012
Ziggo

Kert wrote:

SPOILER
http://osu.ppy.sh/b/269963?m=0 - random DT gives more points than
http://osu.ppy.sh/b/96095?m=0 with HR

http://osu.ppy.sh/b/49067?m=0 gives way too much points, cosnsidering it's a lot easier than any of the above

In general I feel that DT gives qute a lot more than it should and HR on really small circles isn't as rewarding

And also FL?
FL is not favoured at all?
http://osu.ppy.sh/s/18156 - this must be one of my top plays, yet it's nowhere close
(my assumption is results are ordered almost in the same way as in tp)
I agree to everything you've said. Also, I believe the actual rank of a score should be considered as well. This would indirectly increase the value of mods like FL and getting good accuracy on maps with complicated patterns.
Last edited by Ziggo , edited 1 time in total.
Sync
osu! Alumni
1,575 posts
Joined April 2011
Sync
well I'll be damned.

Nice to know you guys are collaborating!
Last edited by Sync , edited 1 time in total.
TheLukay
122 posts
Joined July 2012
TheLukay
i lost a shitload of ranks an my best performances are some weird stuff but nvm ._.
Myke B
1,074 posts
Joined April 2012
Myke B
gogo remote control~ :P
Yarissa
587 posts
Joined September 2010
Yarissa
I'm curious to know.... Tom, do you know if peppy plans on releasing the algorithm for ppv2 ranks? Tp was public and I don't know how much you guys collaborated on the new ranking system. If they're anything similar I don't think it would be too big of a problem to make it public. I'm still curious about how peppy is going to deal with the feedback and how things will end up after any tweaks down the road
Omgforz
166 posts
Joined November 2010
Omgforz
Taking rank into consideration is just going to please all hidden and FL players, but will shit on everyone else.
Tom94
osu!dev
750 posts
Joined August 2012
Topic Starter
Tom94

Kert wrote:

http://osu.ppy.sh/b/269963?m=0 - random DT gives more points than
http://osu.ppy.sh/b/96095?m=0 with HR

http://osu.ppy.sh/b/49067?m=0 gives way too much points, cosnsidering it's a lot easier than any of the above

In general I feel that DT gives qute a lot more than it should and HR on really small circles isn't as rewarding

And also FL?
FL is not favoured at all?
http://osu.ppy.sh/s/18156 - this must be one of my top plays, yet it's nowhere close
(my assumption is results are ordered almost in the same way as in tp)
FL gives a huge bonus on maps which are hard to aim. I am tallking about a 36% increase. However if the movement of the map you played is not that complicated, then even FL won't be able to pull it up by much. I've already been considering to increase FL's bonus even further in the past, since it makes aiming so much harder.

As for the HR rank vs your DT rank. I believe they are both very good and will keep tweaking the difficulty algorithm. It's hard to calll one of them both better than the other with good reasoning.


Ziggo wrote:

I agree to everything you've said. Also, I believe the actual rank of a score should be considered as well. This would indirectly increase the value of mods like FL and getting good accuracy on maps with complicated patterns.
This has been considered, but there are just too many cases where the scoring system fails in my opinion. Even having a small contribution could be fatal for some scores. As I said earlier, I am already thinking about way to increase the vallue of FlashLight without making it "overpowered" on harder maps. Pattern difficulty is not yet implemented but definitely planned.
Minihanky
1 post
Joined December 2012
Minihanky
I would appreciate it, if we can have access to the list where our songs who counts in the pp system are listed ;) So we can better our accuracy or our score on that maps :D
Tom94
osu!dev
750 posts
Joined August 2012
Topic Starter
Tom94

Minihanky wrote:

I would appreciate it, if we can have access to the list where our songs who counts in the pp system are listed ;) So we can better our accuracy or our score on that maps :D
Your 10 best scores are listed in your profile in the "Top Ranks" tab.
XGeneral2000
86 posts
Joined April 2011
XGeneral2000

Tom94 wrote:

Your 10 best scores are listed in your profile in the "Top Ranks" tab.
I wonder, would it be possible to add a score's pp value to the client? So we could see the pp contribution to every score in-game?
Liiraye
1,354 posts
Joined December 2011
Liiraye

Tom94 wrote:

Minihanky wrote:

I would appreciate it, if we can have access to the list where our songs who counts in the pp system are listed ;) So we can better our accuracy or our score on that maps :D
Your 10 best scores are listed in your profile in the "Top Ranks" tab.

They are far from the best. How can various top 15 scores be neglected and make room for a rank 1000 A rank? :s
Last edited by Liiraye , edited 1 time in total.
Tom94
osu!dev
750 posts
Joined August 2012
Topic Starter
Tom94

XGeneral2000 wrote:

Tom94 wrote:

Your 10 best scores are listed in your profile in the "Top Ranks" tab.
I wonder, would it be possible to add a score's pp value to the client? So we could see the pp contribution to every score in-game?
It is being considered. Can't say more yet, though.
R45eytx5
22 posts
Joined June 2013
R45eytx5
I'm really satisfied with the new system. I felt as a pp farmer in the previous one but now its just about perfectly placed me and almost every others (imo) on our small country ranking. Good job!
Yarissa
587 posts
Joined September 2010
Yarissa
Liiraye, I don't think this system takes your rank on the song into consideration. It may take relativity in consideration (like older versions of ppv2) but just because you set a highscore/ top 15 on a song does not mean it's considered your most skillful play. And if you don't consider them some of your best plays, it IS a new system. Don't expect perfection yet. It looks great as it is so far but I expect a lot of tweaking for the next few months
Kert
2,079 posts
Joined June 2009
Kert

Tom94 wrote:

As for the HR rank vs your DT rank. I believe they are both very good and will keep tweaking the difficulty algorithm. It's hard to calll one of them both better than the other with good reasoning.
I've spent more than a few hundred tries (not all at once of course) to FC that HR map, but managed to do DT in around 15
I really believe it's because of very small circles which makes you miss a lot more often (it's CS6 with HR)

Ah, btw I forgot mentioning TAG maps
It's probably hard to take them into a count, but I'd like to see this tweaked too
Last edited by Kert , edited 1 time in total.
tom_7
1 post
Joined November 2012
tom_7
I just played a beatmap from 'best performance' tab and while passing it on hd and getting rank #5600~ (was #6400~ before no mods) I lost 1 pp. Is it normal?
TakuMii
1,874 posts
Joined October 2009
TakuMii
Just a question: will the new PP difficulty algorithm be replacing the current in-game star difficulty rating in the future?
RaneFire
1,181 posts
Joined May 2011
RaneFire

YayMii wrote:

Just a question: will the new PP difficulty algorithm be replacing the current in-game star difficulty rating in the future?
And is there any way to integrate this with the client for beatmaps existing/already downloaded? So we can sort by difficulty in song select and it would be accurate?

Or is that what you meant?
mmnah
61 posts
Joined September 2011
mmnah
Will there be an update to the current ingame or website UI in order to integrate the PP metrics?

What i mean is:
- A number before the map's title in the "Best Performance" section that shows how much pp you got from a play;
- An expansion to the "Best Performance" section (10 plays isn't that much);
- A way to see the "difficulty line" regarding to one or the other mod (i.e. to see how "hard" the song is if i play it with DT);
- A way to see how much pp you got from a particular play in game;
- A way to "sort" records by pp (like you can do it now - by country or by particular mod);

Basically most of the things the osu!tp has now.

Sorry for my english in advance.
Catgirl
472 posts
Joined June 2013
Catgirl
I haven't browsed the thread, so most of this has probably already been said, but here's my thoughts.

I like this system a lot more than the old system. I dropped from around rank 57k to 94k, so I'm not a very skilled player like most people here. But my 57k rank was very flawed. Almost all of my pp under the old system came from a single old map that hardly anyone was able to full combo (not because of difficulty, but from the poor quality of the map). It was also nearly impossible for me to ever gain any ranks since I couldn't get high enough ranks on songs unless I played maps that were not very commonly played.

This seems to be remedied now, as several of my top performances were not on the list before because they were as low as rank #5000 on the song or lower. I feel some of these were truly my "best performances", even though they are on more popular maps, and it is really nice to see them factoring into the calculations now.

I don't care about a specific number for my ranking, but seeing as it's potentially easier for someone of my skill to go up in rankings, this should give me more motivation to get better since I can see actual progress now. Keep up the good work!
Saoji
825 posts
Joined February 2013
Saoji
It's great.
Tarix
15 posts
Joined May 2013
Tarix
Osu! TP map level underneath the beatmap name + AR/OD/HP stats.

Just like this just underneath the beatmap ingame ^
Example :
Tom94BESTDJEU - PEPPY NEW PP RANKING(=BEST!) [Tom94 remix]
OD: 10 HP : 8 AR : 10 CS : XXX Aim : XXX Speed : xxx
BPM : xxx circles : xxx sliders : xxx spinners : xxx
Spyrunite
99 posts
Joined August 2012
Spyrunite
If they were to implement that I would imagine it would come with the redesign of he profile pages peppy said he was working on.
monomosc
52 posts
Joined January 2013
monomosc
Really liking the new pp!

I think though, beatmaps with really high bpm (the 280 blob and scarlet rose and such) are being undervalued in terms of "beatmap difficulty"

Just what I feel, especially like how the top ranks reflect your "personal achievements" a bit more instead of showing just all your boring mod-SS (at least at my level)

Keep it up!
R e d
226 posts
Joined January 2011
R e d
ItHR still have a over value?

Lets have Thelewa for example: He is really good Hr Hd but he don't have so much speed and DT accuracy as SnowWhite, Dungeon or DragonHuman.

I Respect Thelewa. But still think he don't deserve 3#
Savag3blow
1 post
Joined July 2013
Savag3blow
This new system seems really good and pretty accurate. The only one weird thing that I've found is that I had a top rank on a map, which I didn't even full combo so I replayed it and full combo'ed it with HD on and improved the score greatly but then the map actually disappeared from my top rank suggesting my new score was actually worse than before.

EDIT: Seems like there is just a delay now for the system to display the top ranks. After a while, the song came back onto a higher place on my top ranks which was expected.
Sohma99
41 posts
Joined November 2011
Sohma99
So far I love the new PP system.
Would need to wait a little to see if there's anything wrong with it, any flaws...
We'll have a better idea of what needs to be changed or not in a few month I guess.
DakeDekaane
osu! Alumni
3,500 posts
Joined February 2012
DakeDekaane
Even if I went from 10.8K to #30.3K, I knew I didn't deserve that high rank.
Pretty accurate (at least what is showing in my top ranks). Some Insane I struggled a bit to FC are there, so I'm quite happy with the actual outcome, though there is a score with crappy accuracy (85.89%) and far far away from being a FC as my best performace, so I think it'd still take some time to fully update?
iderekmc
368 posts
Joined April 2013
iderekmc

Purple wrote:

dukambe wrote:

Rank on user profile not the same as rank on performance page/country page, which i guess is because of some hidden players. (Example: dragonhuman #8 and #4 country on profile, #6 on performance and #2 on country page)

Also what happens if i get a higher performance on a song where i already had a ranking. Just for example if i have HD+HR on Remote Control and then DT fc it, would the DT fc count?
Only if you beat your old score
but if u get less accuracy than before ur rank goes up
Tom94
osu!dev
750 posts
Joined August 2012
Topic Starter
Tom94

ohyou wrote:

Will there be an update to the current ingame or website UI in order to integrate the PP metrics?

What i mean is:
- A number before the map's title in the "Best Performance" section that shows how much pp you got from a play;
- An expansion to the "Best Performance" section (10 plays isn't that much);
- A way to see the "difficulty line" regarding to one or the other mod (i.e. to see how "hard" the song is if i play it with DT);
- A way to see how much pp you got from a particular play in game;
- A way to "sort" records by pp (like you can do it now - by country or by particular mod);

Basically most of the things the osu!tp has now.

Sorry for my english in advance.
What osu!tp has been doing is not working that easily here, since the processor has to deal with far more than 100times as many scores. A per-score pp display is being considered, ingame and in the web. I'll probably propose an ingame difficulty display, incorporating mods, at some point as well when I have time.


Kert wrote:

Tom94 wrote:

As for the HR rank vs your DT rank. I believe they are both very good and will keep tweaking the difficulty algorithm. It's hard to calll one of them both better than the other with good reasoning.
I've spent more than a few hundred tries (not all at once of course) to FC that HR map, but managed to do DT in around 15
I really believe it's because of very small circles which makes you miss a lot more often (it's CS6 with HR)

Ah, btw I forgot mentioning TAG maps
It's probably hard to take them into a count, but I'd like to see this tweaked too
TAG4 maps will be fixed as soon as per-hitobject data is available. Before that there is not much I can do due to the extreme difficulty spikes.

Also let me repeat what I said in the other thread for everyone:

Just a quick note for everyone who experiences a big drop in ranks. In the previous pp system players who were inactive were not counted. This is not added to the new system yet, so please wait a little while. Your rank drop might not be that bad - potentially it even rose? :P
TakuMii
1,874 posts
Joined October 2009
TakuMii

RaneFire wrote:

YayMii wrote:

Just a question: will the new PP difficulty algorithm be replacing the current in-game star difficulty rating in the future?
And is there any way to integrate this with the client for beatmaps existing/already downloaded? So we can sort by difficulty in song select and it would be accurate?

Or is that what you meant?
That's exactly what I meant. The new difficulty algorithm rating is already visible on the beatmap pages EDIT: no longer visible :( . I wanna see them in game.
Last edited by TakuMii , edited 2 times in total.
Doge_old_1
Doge_old_1
Finally, a skill-based ranking that doesn't revolve around [Hard] farmers.

This is beautiful. No complaints.
Liiraye
1,354 posts
Joined December 2011
Liiraye

R e d wrote:

ItHR still have a over value?

Lets have Thelewa for example: He is really good Hr Hd but he don't have so much speed and DT accuracy as SnowWhite, Dungeon or DragonHuman.

I Respect Thelewa. But still think he don't deserve 3#

It depends a lot really. Some maps that are practically impossible to aim propely that only a handful of players can hdhr deserves pp as well. Don't you agree?

Speed isn't everything you know!
Wojowu
48 posts
Joined September 2012
Wojowu
I think this is a lot more fair than old pp system. One thing I wanted to say is that some scores are overestimated: my score on this map: http://osu.ppy.sh/b/338594&m=0 is 300 combo (with over 800 full combo) and 84,44% acc. Because it's fresh map I have #84, and probably for that reason it landed in my Top Ranks. I wouldn't consider this a good score, so I wonder why it's so high performance.
Also, because of that single score, my overall acc fell from 95,51% to 95,15%, which isn't cool :/
DeliciousBread
10 posts
Joined February 2013
DeliciousBread
.
Last edited by DeliciousBread , edited 1 time in total.
Salvage
590 posts
Joined January 2010
Salvage
What about calculating accuracy with unstable rate? Or is it that hard to calculate on every map played?.
show more
Please sign in to reply.

New reply

0
16 / 2,750