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Custom diff names

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Makar
osu! Alumni
2,258 posts
Joined February 2011
Makar

Nyquill wrote:

[Luanny] wrote:

I totally agree with this rule
but are we allowed to use stuff like "Relaxing" "Challenge" "Advanced" and stuff?
Those diff names have established stigma, and are honestly self explanatory, so I would say yes they are allowed.

Sakura wrote:

I don't think the rule is as strict as "You have to use Easy, Normal, Hard Insane for difficulty names"

But something like "You have to use something measurable for difficulty names"

So i'd think that if you want to have 2 difficulties and name one sprout and another tree, it's obvious that tree is harder, with just a mapper name this difference isn't as obvious.
I agree with this.
Timorisu
771 posts
Joined November 2012
Timorisu
So this wouldn't be allowed?

Also totally agreeing with Sakura.
[Luanny]
8,248 posts
Joined April 2011
[Luanny]
well then I'm totally agree with this rule
Diffname is diffname, not mappername o.o I thought that was obvious
Nyquill
osu! Alumni
1,781 posts
Joined February 2011
Nyquill
Actually I am certain peppy was just misinterpreted. He never said no custom names period, just have them distinguishable. If you apply stigma rules and what sakura just said there, only a handful of maps will be affected.
xChippy
1,941 posts
Joined August 2011
xChippy
Btw a quick question, What about maps going for approval owo? how are we going to name those OAO?
If it's totally irrelevant ignore me owo /me runs
Nyquill
osu! Alumni
1,781 posts
Joined February 2011
Nyquill
Approval maps have no spread, imo they are exempt IF AND ONLY IF they only use one diff (which is the hardest diff anyways).

A lot of this actually comes down to if rating can be fixed actually... if not then we're going to have to use scalar names only regardless of established norms.
Kodora
Topic Starter
Kodora
what about cases like this or that

Mappers didn't used here own usernames as difficulty names, but have custom diffnames at hardest diffs.
Is this disallowed?
Scorpiour
2,633 posts
Joined May 2011
Scorpiour
and what about diff refers to other MUG

Relaxing Basic Beginner Standard Hyper Advanced Another Extreme Extra (stage) Lunatic Extra SHD

and also Collab since there's sometime Collab Hard & Collab Insane

also some special names like

Challange Exceed Maximum Ultimate .. and so on
Sakura
osu! Alumni
7,979 posts
Joined March 2010
Sakura
"Last Spell" for anyone with touhou knowledge that should be obvious that's the hardest, but the issue would be for people without touhou knowledge
"Lament" doesn't look like anything like a diff name and is completely unrelated to the others (maybe im missing flavor knowledge?)

fwiw Lunatic in place of Insane on touhou i'd find it fine since it fits the theme and most people know the 4 basic difficulties in touhou anyways.
Kodora
Topic Starter
Kodora
also this and that too
Last edited by Kodora , edited 1 time in total.
Nyquill
osu! Alumni
1,781 posts
Joined February 2011
Nyquill
sakura you should read my post about stigma :p

Nyquill wrote:

Though, I think exceptions should be allowed for certain cases because a deviation within a diff spread that has otherwise consistent diffuculty names are often stigmatized as the hardest diffuculty. Perhaps with the new rule, we can look to accomadate this?
Irreversible
osu! Alumni
4,315 posts
Joined December 2011
Irreversible
....I don't understand that as well tbh.

Even if you're new, you'll get used to the names, as Long as the LOWER diffs stay regular. The hardest diffs should really be allowed to have custom diffs such as [Name] or [Name]'s [SpecialAddition]

Why not keeping it like this, People like that too much as if we should put a rule on that.
Makar
osu! Alumni
2,258 posts
Joined February 2011
Makar

Scorpiour wrote:

and what about diff refers to other MUG

Basic Beginner Standard Hyper Advanced Another Extreme Extra (stage) Lunatic Extra SHD
Can't understand this; might want to reword. Not sure if this is a question or what the question is...

Scorpiour wrote:

and also Collab since there's sometime Collab Hard & Collab Insane
Should be Collab Insane or Collab Hard, as you said. Not just "Collab"
Nyquill
osu! Alumni
1,781 posts
Joined February 2011
Nyquill

Makar wrote:

Scorpiour wrote:

and what about diff refers to other MUG

Basic Beginner Standard Hyper Advanced Another Extreme Extra (stage) Lunatic Extra SHD
Can't understand this; might want to reword. Not sure if this is a question or what the question is...

Scorpiour wrote:

and also Collab since there's sometime Collab Hard & Collab Insane
Should be Collab Insane or Collab Hard, as you said. Not just "Collab"
He means what about games that come from other music games.

Which.... I covered with my post.
Scorpiour
2,633 posts
Joined May 2011
Scorpiour
and then what about Taiko diff names since words Kanta, Futsuu, Muzukashii & Oni are not english it is also confused many new players.

and About mania since there's different key count , do we need change them to something like 7K Hard, 5K Insane, 8K Insane..etc
Makar
osu! Alumni
2,258 posts
Joined February 2011
Makar

Scorpiour wrote:

and then what about Taiko diff names since words Kanta, Futsuu, Muzukashii & Oni are not english it is also confused many new players.
Nyquill covered this already

Scorpiour wrote:

and About mania since there's different key count , do we need change them to something like 7K Hard, 5K Insane, 8K Insane..etc
I thought key count was auto included...? or something
Momochikun
1,944 posts
Joined October 2012
Momochikun
I didn't really sure about this,
What about multiple Insane GD ? as long the Easy Normal Hard were refers nicely,
then having Insane as name that reflect the song or somewhat else still could be accepted imo.
Since Easy , Normal , Mapper 4 Hard, mapper 1 Insane , Mapper 2 Insane, Mapper 3 Insane sound a bit stiff for me
Sakura
osu! Alumni
7,979 posts
Joined March 2010
Sakura
The thing is that i dont mind creativity, but leaving only the latest diff with a flavorized name looks odd. Imho if you're gonna flavorize your difficulty names do it in a way that.

1) It's really obvious which one is easier or harder.
2) Flavorize all your difficulty names (nothing like Easy, Normal, Thunder but things like Rain, Storm, ThunderStorm)
3) If it's from a game which difficulty names follow a different naming standard you can use that, since it should be obvious here as well what's harder.
4) Anything else i forgot?

Scorpiour wrote:

and then what about Taiko diff names since words Kanta, Futsuu, Muzukashii & Oni are not english it is also confused many new players.
iirc peppy mentioned once that they should be called with english names (since game mode is obvious already anyways)

Momochikun wrote:

Since Easy , Normal , Mapper 4 Hard, mapper 1 Insane , Mapper 2 Insane, Mapper 3 Insane sound a bit stiff for me
Don't see anything wrong about this tbh, but you can flavorize the whole set of difficulties to make it more appealing.
Scorpiour
2,633 posts
Joined May 2011
Scorpiour

Makar wrote:

Scorpiour wrote:

and About mania since there's different key count , do we need change them to something like 7K Hard, 5K Insane, 8K Insane..etc
I thought key count was auto included...? or something
key count is not included in diff name unless write it in
captin1
osu! Alumni
2,607 posts
Joined February 2011
captin1
not sure why this is suddenly a huge issue, it's been very well established, and even if someone happens to misjudge the difficulty of a map, they wasted one play, oh no, not really a big deal at all. as long as there is still logical and clear spread within the set, having the top difficulties be more creative or individual in their naming shouldn't be a problem

so basically agreeing with irre

Irreversible wrote:

Even if you're new, you'll get used to the names, as Long as the LOWER diffs stay regular. The hardest diffs should really be allowed to have custom diffs such as [Name] or [Name]'s [SpecialAddition]

Why not keeping it like this, People like that too much as if we should put a rule on that.
Last edited by captin1 , edited 1 time in total.
Makar
osu! Alumni
2,258 posts
Joined February 2011
Makar

Scorpiour wrote:

key count is not included in diff name unless write it in
Then write it in? How is this related? I must be misunderstanding, sorry.
Felhantin
59 posts
Joined May 2012
Felhantin
I think giving every mapper the freedom to chose their maps name is an important part of the maps identity. Also this is since long a tradition in mapping. Many mappers make use of that, and many people can rather identify a difficult map by reading "skystar" or "0108" than "Insane".

Isn't star difficulty supposed to tell what's what? It is difficult making a hard diff without exceeding what is supposed to be a "hard".

There is no need to change things that don't really need to be changed. Rather fix star rating.
Last edited by Felhantin , edited 1 time in total.
Zare
1,512 posts
Joined March 2012
Zare
Hi, according to this rule, would stuff like https://osu.ppy.sh/s/118494 that still be allowed? The diffnames are all custom but make sense in correlation with each other, also using default diff names would not really fit, as the whole set is a littler harder than your usual ENHI spread.
Kodora
Topic Starter
Kodora

Sakura wrote:

The thing is that i dont mind creativity, but leaving only the latest diff with a flavorized name looks odd. Imho if you're gonna flavorize your difficulty names do it in a way that.
Why? Most of mappers put main effort at hardest diff, and they want to emphazire it using custom diff name.

Also https://osu.ppy.sh/s/17832 please
Scorpiour
2,633 posts
Joined May 2011
Scorpiour

Makar wrote:

Scorpiour wrote:

key count is not included in diff name unless write it in
Then write it in? How is this related? I must be misunderstanding, sorry.
i'm not issuing this problem, just wanna discuss that if we need to consider these cases if it is addressed
Sakura
osu! Alumni
7,979 posts
Joined March 2010
Sakura

Zarerion wrote:

Hi, according to this rule, would stuff like https://osu.ppy.sh/s/118494 that still be allowed? The diffnames are all custom but make sense in correlation with each other, also using default diff names would not really fit, as the whole set is a littler harder than your usual ENHI spread.
That would be fine, since it's understandable which one's harder than the other.
Broccoly
1,359 posts
Joined May 2012
Broccoly

Broken Wyvern wrote:

Rather fix star rating.
The funny thing is, that this becomes problem whenever a rather unknown mapper uses his/her name as a difficulty name.
https://osu.ppy.sh/s/87547 nobody dared to ask to fix those diff names iirc.
I guess it's an evidence that we're humans hue
Last edited by Broccoly , edited 1 time in total.
Scorpiour
2,633 posts
Joined May 2011
Scorpiour

Sakura wrote:

Zarerion wrote:

Hi, according to this rule, would stuff like https://osu.ppy.sh/s/118494 that still be allowed? The diffnames are all custom but make sense in correlation with each other, also using default diff names would not really fit, as the whole set is a littler harder than your usual ENHI spread.
That would be fine, since it's understandable which one's harder than the other.
according what the rule may be set it is not allowed also.
Azer
World Cup Organiser
1,105 posts
Joined December 2012
Azer
Mapper freedom -1
Song select is going to be so bland, there's a certain feeling towards custom difficulty names and I disaproove of them being gone.
orbital gun
171 posts
Joined January 2011
orbital gun
I'll just put one word here that explains my thoughts on the argument

GUIDELINES

Explain what's good and what should be avoided without making an entirely new rule on difficulty naming so that stuff like this can be prevented

"0108" and "skystar" are perfectly fine for difficulty names, but some stuff goes beyond basic understanding.

inb4 argument continues
Zare
1,512 posts
Joined March 2012
Zare
That's reassuring then, thanks.

I don't really know whether I agree with stuff like 0108 style, which really IS an established mapping style and a really good indicator for the difficulty of a map if you ask me. Same goes for Nogard etc. Prohibiting these isn't really needed imo, if the rest of the diff naming makes sense.
silmarilen
5,582 posts
Joined February 2010
silmarilen

Zarerion wrote:

Hi, according to this rule, would stuff like https://osu.ppy.sh/s/118494 that still be allowed? The diffnames are all custom but make sense in correlation with each other, also using default diff names would not really fit, as the whole set is a littler harder than your usual ENHI spread.
this is super unclear if you look at it without context. if i see a map and the diff name is "bud" how am i supposed to know how hard it is?
i dont even know what that word means
Stefan
Global Moderator
10,407 posts
Joined January 2011
Stefan

captin1 wrote:

not sure why this is suddenly a huge issue, it's been very well established, and even if someone happens to misjudge the difficulty of a map, they wasted one play, oh no, not really a big deal at all. as long as there is still logical and clear spread within the set, having the top difficulties be more creative or individual in their naming shouldn't be a problem
iirc this rule has been set for over a year due such things like that.

Scorpiour wrote:

and then what about Taiko diff names since words Kanta, Futsuu, Muzukashii & Oni are not english it is also confused many new players.

and About mania since there's different key count , do we need change them to something like 7K Hard, 5K Insane, 8K Insane..etc
okay wait, we're talking about the issue that Mapper are using their User names as Difficulty name, that's the main issue. To Sakura's post I find custom names good as long they are related to anything in the game, serie, whatever. I made that pretty stupid example with woof (given from GoldenWolf) and that's more as obvious why you should not use unrelated Difficulty name(s). A question about logic, not about rules if you ask me. Kantan, Futsuu, Muzukashii, Oni are the basic names of the original game and be kept. If you're nagging about the lack of understanding a different language except english then such Names wouldn't be allowed.

The Thread name is a bit misleading, would be great if it could be fixed.
Last edited by Stefan , edited 1 time in total.
Broccoly
1,359 posts
Joined May 2012
Broccoly
https://osu.ppy.sh/b/155184&m=0
These should be allowed since star rating's clear on that

I want to see discussions about the difficulties of Hard and above which you can't tell from the star rating
Kodora
Topic Starter
Kodora
So, diff names like this is allowed? Or not?

https://osu.ppy.sh/b/55410
https://osu.ppy.sh/b/56518
https://osu.ppy.sh/b/67837
https://osu.ppy.sh/b/52922
Stefan
Global Moderator
10,407 posts
Joined January 2011
Stefan
Broccoly: It was just an example why the language shouldn't really matter. I've seen some cases in the past and that's why I have thrown this in. Uhm.. replaced my example with a better one.

Kodora: 2013 = not 2010
Last edited by Stefan , edited 1 time in total.
Irreversible
osu! Alumni
4,315 posts
Joined December 2011
Irreversible
So much Argumentation just about diff names. Great.

Stefan, I guess things like this are still allowed, because the star Rating tells you which diff is what.

And again, I wish the creativity of the names could stay like that. Insane = Allowed to Change the Name || Hard, Normal, Easy = Stick to the usual names (Easy, Beginner, Normal, Standard etc.) || Mapsets with a clear star Rating = Names like https://osu.ppy.sh/s/48574 are allowed.
RemiFlan
91 posts
Joined August 2013
RemiFlan
Let me just add in something about what one of the issues about this was.. (with multi players not being able to tell)
I don't want to get involved :<
Doesn't a player usually see this when going to download? Especially if they're new?
dkun
osu! Alumni
4,486 posts
Joined August 2009
dkun
On a personal standpoint, I believe that the mapper should have free reign on what they name difficulties, AS LONG as it's properly noted in the mapper's words.

The example above isn't a proper way to doing so, fwiw.

/me shrugs
Kodora
Topic Starter
Kodora

Irreversible wrote:

Mapsets with a clear star Rating = Names like https://osu.ppy.sh/s/48574 are allowed.
Mapset may have not clear star rating, but have correctly placed diffs (from easier one to hardest one)

https://osu.ppy.sh/b/56518 (star rating shows E E N, but diffs correctly placed from easier one to hardest one)
https://osu.ppy.sh/s/121716 (2 5.0 star diffs, but mine placed before Skystar, so it's easy to guess that mine is easier one)
Last edited by Kodora , edited 1 time in total.
Natsu
8,076 posts
Joined September 2012
Natsu
what about names like: https://osu.ppy.sh/s/94631 ? them make sense as a diff spread for me but not sure o.O
Lach
1,118 posts
Joined November 2012
Lach
What does it matter in regards to multiplayer and not having a name indicative of difficulty when you can't see it, more often than not?



everyone knows this is the only map being played in multiplayer these days, anyway
Last edited by Lach , edited 1 time in total.
Stefan
Global Moderator
10,407 posts
Joined January 2011
Stefan
^ that's a technical issue, not an issue with the rule itself.

Natsu wrote:

what about names like: https://osu.ppy.sh/s/94631 ? them make sense as a diff spread for me but not sure o.O
We can stack tons of examples but I don't think we're coming far with such comparisons. To me it doesn't looks logical.
Last edited by Stefan , edited 1 time in total.
Broccoly
1,359 posts
Joined May 2012
Broccoly

Natsu wrote:

what about names like: https://osu.ppy.sh/s/94631 ? them make sense as a diff spread for me but not sure o.O
cuz nothing can't beat hentai lulz

Lach wrote:

What does it matter in regards to multiplayer and not having a name indicative of difficulty when you can't see it nine times out of ten?

ouch... that's gonna hurt
Kodora
Topic Starter
Kodora

Lach wrote:

What does it matter in regards to multiplayer and not having a name indicative of difficulty when you can't see it, more often than not?



everyone knows this is the only map being played in multiplayer these days, anyway
p/2725582

hehe
dkun
osu! Alumni
4,486 posts
Joined August 2009
dkun

Natsu wrote:

what about names like: https://osu.ppy.sh/s/94631 ? them make sense as a diff spread for me but not sure o.O
I've gotten clarification that if the diff names make sense and you CAN distinguish a set of difficulty, then it should be fine. (ie: that map you linked and 90% of my ranked maps).
Makar
osu! Alumni
2,258 posts
Joined February 2011
Makar
After discussion with other staff members, as long as the level of difficulty is distinguishable in the difficulty name, it is okay to use.
For example: having solely a mapper name is not allowed, but having something like Easy Normal Hard Void or Pennies Dimes Nickels Quarters is perfectly fine. see peppy's post
IzumiKonata
11 posts
Joined May 2013
IzumiKonata

peppy wrote:

Removing difficulty is for what reason?
Custom diffname is cool. It makes osu! different from other MUGs which have only standarded diffnames. It can tell the style of a mapper, the emotion in that song/map. It works as a Easter Egg sometimes like thishttps://osu.ppy.sh/s/111531. To let people recognize the difficulty is only a part of its function.
I bet that you can't tell the differences between a RLC diff and a Rin diff, but the diffname does.
I have to say, what about making the star calculating system better to make it possible to recognize difficulty just by counting the stars? Even doubling the upper limit of stars is fine, then the diffname will just be a name. More freedom will be fun since osu! is a game not a engineering. Afterall we still have some famous star calculation bugs as DragonForce and FreedomDive.
Broccoly
1,359 posts
Joined May 2012
Broccoly

Makar wrote:

After discussion with other staff members, as long as the level of difficulty is distinguishable in the difficulty name, it is okay to use.
For example: having solely a mapper name is not allowed, but having something like Easy Normal Hard Void or Pennies Dimes Nickels Quarters is perfectly fine.
how about Easy Normal Hard Void Apple Orange? Allowed since it's obvious that those are all insane and higher?
2211178
2211178
https://osu.ppy.sh/b/223397 inappropriate example
peppy
19,315 posts
Here since the beginning
peppy
Everything that has needed to be said regarding this topic has already been said.

✕ [peppy]
✕ [moe] [hentai] [kyun kyun]
◯ [peppy's hard] [dildo's insane]
◯ [relaxing] [challenging]
◯ [walking] [running] [sprinting]

in other words, make sure the average human player can understand what difficulty the map is by reading the difficulty name. without knowing the mapper. without special knowledge of a niche topic.
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