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Touhou PyP IV (Game over - Mafia wins :>)

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Tanzklaue
I didn't contradict myself.

I actually have support for the possibility of mafia dayvigs (mafiascumwiki at least says that they aren't unheard of).

I tried to analyse, and for the most part, i couldn't get much out of it. I followed the most reasonable view, which was in the case of BRBP lilac. after that, I did have my own leads.

I tried to defend myself when i was under heavy pressure, like every person would. of course I would name the people I see as scummy when everyone tries to kill me. who wouldn't? there is no townmotivation at all in not defending yourself.
Sakura
Yeah, but your defense ended up in you attacking me when I started to consider you as scum again, why?
Tanzklaue
what points? you have no serious point. your point flip flops more than a fish that was pulled to land a few moments ago.

your points apply to a lot of people here, basically anyone who didn't directly unvote BRBP and stood true to the unvote.
Tanzklaue

Sakura wrote:

Yeah, but your defense ended up in you attacking me when I started to consider you as scum again, why?
because your questioning seemed off to me, and then your revote on me. in my eyyes, you wouldn't have done it if you had true townintentions behind it.
Sakura
Unvote
Vote: Tanzklaue
^
that's scummy?

I asked you a question, you didn't give an answer that seemed coming from pro-town, so I voted you again.
Tanzklaue
you asked a question you knew I couldn't answer in a way that would've read town all over it.

but this actually doesn't lead anywhere.

Vote: Kanye
if I should survive, i could scan you. but I don't know if that would be a waste of a scan (since you probably wouldn't read me town anyway even if I confirmed you, also it's likely that you will die if you're town).
Sakura
Why do you think I knew you couldn't answer?

What makes you think i'd ask you a question you couldn't answer?

If i wanted to trap you I would ask something like "If you're town why are you voting town?" or something like that.

I got a null read on Kanye, so i'm not sheeping you on that.
Tanzklaue
I don't even know why you did 90% of the actions you did in this thread. I have no idea why you would try to get me to give you a reason to vote me. why would you even question me if you already unvoted me? if you don't trust me enough in the first place, don't unvote.

basically, if this continues, I will die anyway. you will die this night if you're town, and nobody gets much scum info out of it. I can't do that much more to defend myself, i already claimed, and it's up to you guys if you believe it or not.
fartownik
Congrats, you spammed 5 sites with this internal discussion. Tanz-Sakura scumteam ftw.
Topic Starter
pieguyn
Votecount 1.7:

Tanzklaue (4) - Royston, Lilac, Kanye West, Sakura
Kanye West (3) - Raging Bull, fartownik, Tanzklaue
Jinxy (1) - BRBP
fartownik (1) - Jinxy

deadline is in 13:49
Sakura
So can I get a reason why you guys are voting Kanye other than "lurking"?
Kanye West
Because farto is trying to save tanz maybe? I still think the whole back and forth between jinxy and him was planned

#callingit
Tanzklaue
why should he save me?

I vote kanye because I think he is scum. I gave my reason already.
fartownik

Kanye West wrote:

Because farto is trying to save tanz maybe? I still think the whole back and forth between jinxy and him was planned

#callingit
#lazyscum

@Sakura: any reason NOT to vote Kanye (besides your so called suspicion towards Tanz)?
Sakura
I'd think you'd be voting Kanye because he's sucm not because he's lurking.
Tanzklaue
voting for kanye results in pressure for him.

pressure for him results in new information.

you had no problem at all to vote me, if you actually want to get any information, then you shouldn't keep your vote on me. sitting out the deadline doesn't help town at all, and there is nor reason why you shouldn't be able to vote me again if nothing comes up.
Sakura
So ok summarzing your post:

You're voting kanye because he's lurking and you want to pressure him but you don't think he's scum.
At this point advertizing more votes on him will lead to a lynch on someone you don't think it's scum.

You can get information out of people without voting them.

fartownik

Sakura wrote:

I'd think you'd be voting Kanye because he's sucm not because he's lurking.
But this is actually his meta. He plays like this as scum, with a notice that he's probably lazy right now and posts even more half-assed stuff.
Sakura
He replaced out of his game in DotA, so that's unuseful as a meta.

Do you have town meta from Kanye? Any meta accusation without the contrast is biased meta.
Tanzklaue

Sakura wrote:

So ok summarzing your post:

You're voting kanye because he's lurking and you want to pressure him but you don't think he's scum.
At this point advertizing more votes on him will lead to a lynch on someone you don't think it's scum.

You can get information out of people without voting them.

are you...

I think he is scum. please, you make yourself look really ridiculous.
Sakura
I did ask you if you were voting him because he was lurking or because he was scum, and that was your reply dont blame me for misrepresenting what you meant when you didn't even answer my question correctly.
Sakura
So then tell me Tanz, what do you see as scummy from him?

Sell me your case on him?
Tanzklaue
btw. I looked up revivers. they can be of any alignment.

like, it's not even that rare if there is a reiver that he could be scum. just for everyone to think about it.

I vote kanye because I think he is scum, especially after his defense in which he promptly attacked me (which is a sign of being scum according to you). but well, his whole defense will kinda crumble if I flip town, since it was based around me being scum trying to make him look like my scumbuddy.
Sakura
Let's go back to the post where you voted him:

Tanzklaue wrote:

that said, I really want to know what kanye's take on the situation is.

Vote: Kanye

kanye, what are your takes on the recent developments and why do you hold back so much? surely there you must have an opinion on all that happened.
Did you suspect him to be scum in this post?
Tanzklaue
leaning scum, because he lurked. the answer to that actually convinced me that he is scum, because if he wasn't he probably would've argued differently.
Sakura
Lurking isn't a scumtell tho.
fartownik
Jesus, what's wrong with lynching a lurker? It's better to lynch him than mislynch on someone active. He's not providing any content, his posts are nothing to be considered helpful for Town. Because of this he's basically the most scummy person in the game, why not to vote him just by that?

No idea if you felt too comfy there Sakura, but protecting Kanye like that?
Sakura
Let's put it this way, imagine that if I, instead of drawing attention stupidly like I did, I would have lurked throughout the day to avoid getting lynched/NK'd, that same attitude you did would have made me claim and I would be a target for a NK anyway, so then Town has an OP PR exposed who will probably die, what then?
Tanzklaue

Sakura wrote:

Lurking isn't a scumtell tho.
last time I checked, lurking was one of THE big things that you would go by to find scum.

you defend him way too much. what makes you so sure that he isn't scum?
Sakura
I rather go for Active scum on D1 rather than Inactive scum.
Tanzklaue

Sakura wrote:

Let's put it this way, imagine that if I, instead of drawing attention stupidly like I did, I would have lurked throughout the day to avoid getting lynched/NK'd, that same attitude you did would have made me claim and I would be a target for a NK anyway, so then Town has an OP PR exposed who will probably die, what then?
so your argument is that he might be a good PR and making him claim would be dumb?

since when is clinging to PRs considered a pro-town argument?
Sakura
Since when lynching potential useful PRs that are lurking due to avoid Night kills is pro-town
Tanzklaue
it is in 100% of the cases better to have an exposed PR as opposed to hidden scum.
Sakura
Hidden scum can be found in future days tho. They wont be able to remain hidden too long anyway
Tanzklaue

Sakura wrote:

Since when lynching potential useful PRs that are lurking due to avoid Night kills is pro-town
since like forever. lurking people have to deal with the consequences, lurking always builds suspicion on you.

you say that kanye is a potential pro-town PR. but he also could be potential scum. you're argument is fallacious, since you can't know what he is. except you're both scum.

I think I wasn't that far off when i assumed that you fear my ability.
Tanzklaue

Sakura wrote:

Hidden scum can be found in future days tho. They wont be able to remain hidden too long anyway
you could find hidden scum now, as opposed to lynching a not-really-that-scummy-and-already-claimed PR.

you're arguments get really weak now, sakura.
Sakura
No, i don't fear your ability, but i think you're the one that's acting the scummiest of the active players, which is why I'm voting you, both you and farto's reasonings for suspecting kanye kinda sux, tho at least farto has some "sort of" validity because of said meta... even tho said meta is biased.
Tanzklaue
I think you're acting the scummiest out of the active players.

also, to get back to your argument of lynching useful town PRs: I said I'm a gunsmith. gunsmiths are fairly useful town PRs. so why would you risk lynching a PR you know that is useful and not a maybe possibly useful PR?
fartownik
So you have a better suspect than Kanye, Sakura? Tanz is more likely to be scum with his activity, pretty believable claim, analyzing, quick posts? Really? That makes no bloody sense. Why are you so sure Kanye is Town?
fartownik
Also someone mentioned a Lover role used by pieguy in previous game. Maybe Sakura is a Lover with Kanye and she doesn't want him dead by this?
Sakura
I never said I was sure kanye was town, i just rather lynch my scumread over my null read.
Sakura
Also I still don't see how is a flavor gunsmith useful at all (i never thought my flavor cop on LoL was useful in any way)
Tanzklaue

Sakura wrote:

Also I still don't see how is a flavor gunsmith useful at all (i never thought my flavor cop on LoL was useful in any way)
it's a normal gunsmith. I thought it was a flavour gunsmith, since he searches for the flavour of gun.

there is only the gunsmith, and no variations. everything else would be called differently.
Tanzklaue
*Ithought that it would be called flavour gunsmith
fartownik
I'm sorry, but this discussion really tired me already. I'm staying on Kanye unless someone claims fucking scum, hopefully I wake up tomorrow to see some good hammer. Good night.
Tanzklaue
well, and I don't really see any reason to discuss this any further without input from all the guys from the other side of the planet.
VoidnOwO
:)
Sakura
And you got nothing else to say BRBP?
Sakura
inb4 we lynch Kanye and he turns out doctor or something, like really, you guys aren't even thinking before acting.
Tanzklaue

Sakura wrote:

inb4 we lynch Kanye and he turns out doctor or something, like really, you guys aren't even thinking before acting.
inb4 you lynch me and I turn gunsmith just like I said.

we don't know what kanye is, speculating what he might be is fallacious and not helpful, and it isn't an argument against him.
Sakura
If you're town I can just revive you if there's a doc and I survive this night.
Tanzklaue
reviving me won't help you at all. my role is already gone. also speculating that you will survive the night is another assumption, and it isn't a given. if anything, if you survive the night, it will strenghthen the scumtell on you.

also, why so fixated on doctors this game? like, you asked me an awful lot about doctors. you said earlier that a doctor could rescue you. you say that kanye might be a doctor. you say again that a doctor could save you, and that this doctor might be kanye (that is what you hinted at, eh?).
Sakura
Because a doctor can save me so I can revive people obviously.

@Tanz: It WILL help, but the way you're going, you're just going to run everyone to danger and force them to claim, so at this pace, what good did it do to say no to mass claiming? we already know the characters and abilities of 3 people, and you want to reveal a 4th.
Tanzklaue
I don't want to reveal a 4th. I want to catch scum. I think kanye is scum. a claim is normally only the last resort, if nothing else helps anymore. anybody you'll try to lynch will claim sooner or later, since everyone has a PR. not going after scum because they might be a useful PR is just not an good argument.
Sakura

Tanzklaue wrote:

I don't want to reveal a 4th. I want to catch scum. I think kanye is scum. a claim is normally only the last resort, if nothing else helps anymore. anybody you'll try to lynch will claim sooner or later, since everyone has a PR. not going after scum because they might be a useful PR is just not an good argument.
Like you?
Tanzklaue
no, because I am not scum.

it actually doesn't help to discuss anything with you. I will wait until RB, lilac etc. come back and post their opinions. they will basically decide what happens from now on.
Sakura

Tanzklaue wrote:

no, because I am not scum.
Oh really! How interesting.
Sakura
You're the same as kanye... you MIGHT be a useful town PR, or you MIGHT be an useless scum PR. I might be a useful Town PR, or I might be a useful scum PR, there's simply no way of telling, i'm just going by your attitude so far which seems to stem on wanting to deflect onto one of the inactives, kanye.
Kitsunemimi
....I honestly think this has gotten too far...
Sakura
just because I'm death tunneling Tanz to figure his alignment?
Kitsunemimi
You guys haven't really proven anything in the last few pages, it was just a straight back-and-forth argument. At this rate, you guys are just making yourself look worse imo. Sometimes it's better to just step back and rethink your strategy, no?

I'll agree with you that Tanz still looks pretty suspicious, his claim was kinda weird, and going after lurkers instead isn't really the best thing to do. But since you've been hammering away so hard on him, it's made it really hard for other people to post. At least, I personally couldn't come up with much to say. We need consensus to lynch people, right? So let's wait a bit and have a listen on what other people think?
fartownik
Last posts before heading to the bed.

Look at the page 31. Then look at the total amount of pages. 38-31 = 7. You have been fighting with Tanz for 7 pages straight, don't you think a solution would already be found if there was an actual one for this? I really feel sorry for the people that are gonna wake up to this and have to read through it all, making some sense out of it.
Kitsunemimi
;~;
Sakura
Those 7 pages helped me figure out Tanz stances and reasons, so they aren't a waste.

You never replied to my statement regarding kanye's town meta tho
VoidnOwO
:)
VoidnOwO
:)
Sakura

BRBP wrote:

Right, Kanye...

I'd rather lynch scummy people instead of inactive people first.
That's EXACTLY what i've been trying to say those 7 pages, OMG someone that understands has appeared.
fartownik
omg Sakura + BRBP scumteam
Kitsunemimi
The problem is that I'm not sure if Tanz is scummy enough for us to be so focused on him. I don't really feel like looking for it, but Kanye said something like "acting scummy =/= actually being scum". In the end, because of this uncertainty, the likelihood of either Tanz or Kanye flipping town is probably somewhat similar - that is, I'm almost equally unsure of whether Kanye is scum as I am unsure of Tanz. Of course, to me, Tanz is more scummy, but not everyone agrees...
Raging Bull
I voted for Kanye based on how he played in DotA, granted there wasn't much.


@Kanye, then actually start posting more instead of popping in after every prod.


fartownik wrote:

I really feel sorry for the people that are gonna wake up to this and have to read through it all, making some sense out of it.

Truthfully, I only read up to like page 34.

@Sakura, did you honestly get anything out of it? Or are you still just tunnelling the hell out of Tanz? Honestly, only thing I agreed was the claim and how odd it was for Tanz to claim gunsmith and then got confused the hell out his own "role" , but other than that, during your back and forth argument, did you honestly get anything at all? What is your stance on Tanz then?

I think for the time being, my current suspects are Tanz/Sakura. To me, one is probably scum. Tunnelling the hell out of a useful player? Or Roleclaiming but doesn't seem like he knows his own role? Both.....maybe scum but a very low chance. I don't think anyone would argue for 7 pages and be scum buddies.

Kanye for his general activity here. The only time he tends to post is after a prod. He's saying he's actually busy during DotA but this time, you can see he obviously moderates his own game.

BRBP to me is just.....i don't know. His actions weren't justified and just because he's a dayvig doesn't confirm he's town I suppose. Honestly, even I used the wiki when I was checking dayvig. Maybe pieguy isn't a bastard mod, but you'll never know. Of course I could be wrong.
Sakura
Exactly, you must look at intent, which is why I'm voting Tanz.
Kitsunemimi
I'm also reminded that if we're all really unsure, then it's still possible to go for No Lynch, but that might not be such a good idea after all...?
Sakura
The fact that there's a 2-shot reviver, means that anything could happen

inb4 town reviver to counter scum dayvig.
Sakura

Kitsunemimi wrote:

I'm also reminded that if we're all really unsure, then it's still possible to go for No Lynch, but that might not be such a good idea after all...?
Actually it would, we already lost 1 towny today, we could assume we lynched NH instead.

Vote: No Lynch
Kitsunemimi

Raging Bull wrote:

BRBP to me is just.....i don't know. His actions weren't justified and just because he's a dayvig doesn't confirm he's town I suppose. Honestly, even I used the wiki when I was checking dayvig. Maybe pieguy isn't a bastard mod, but you'll never know. Of course I could be wrong.
Remember when BRBP made his post to reply to all of the suspicions held against him? Since pieguy had confirmed his dayvig status afterwards, that also most likely means that everything he said in that post was true. I had grilled him pretty hard with the post I made too, and considering how close he was to the fire, as well as his previous (thoughtless?) contradictions/errors, I'm pretty sure he wouldn't lie about anything in that post, in which he did explicitly state that he was 1-shot dayvig, town aligned. Combine that with the likelyhood of a mafia aligned dayvig, and he's almost certainly town.

You can pretty much never be 100% sure, but that's kind of how mafia is... right?
Sakura
As I said, we already had 1 casualty today, let's keep it that way I don't want to risk having 2 townies dead in the case both tanz and kanye are both town.
Kitsunemimi
Alright I think I'll stick a vote in No Lynch for now, and hope this works out for the better >_<

Vote: No lynch

If this goes through, then Kanye, I really really hope you use the time to start to posting more, as it would help us settle this debate.
If you STILL continue with your inactivity, then I'm going to start to see that as pretty suspicious...
Topic Starter
pieguyn
Votecount 1.8:

Tanzklaue (3) - Royston, Lilac, Kanye West
Kanye West (3) - Raging Bull, fartownik, Tanzklaue
No lynch (2) - Sakura, Kitsunemimi
Jinxy (1) - BRBP
fartownik (1) - Jinxy

deadline is in 9:42
btw, in case I didn't mention it before, ties go to the player who had the most votes before the tie
Lilac
Unvote.

There is no way I'm taking the risk for now on voting for Tanz even if I think that the idea of a Gunsmith being around as that could be either Town or Mafia and that the mafia scenario is griping at me. I can't do a deduction of a vote while hearing a math lecture at the same time while typing this but I think I have a good enough idea now as to what to do at night tonight.

I'll explain why I have two possible scum teams in mind. A no lynch though, is a very terrible idea in my eyes. Even though we already have a town down, leaving a day without a lynch means a day that town leaves without an informed decision on who is mafia. A Kanye lynch will see whether one of the possible scum teams that I have in mind are true.

I will explain more when I can.
Raging Bull
Unvote

Vote:Lilac

Somehow it looks as though you are just gonna go along with the lynch and not get involved. Recent behavior has been rather irritating me. You've been hopping around back and forth way too much for me.

Lilac wrote:

I also forgot about the possibility of a Serial Killer to balance the mafia of 3. That is definitely a possibility.
Scumslip? How do you know there are 3 mafias?

I also cannot tell if the small little thing on Kitsunemimi was just distancing. Within one hour of your post, you voted for Kitsune and then unvoted. Used day chat to coordinate this little scene?

And then afterwards, you switched so fast to tanz to perhaps join up on his bandwagon that was starting to happen. You said you were going to post reasoning, yet it never happened. Seems as though you targetted Kitsunemimi first then Tanz so tanz would have a harder time to give a reply without saying exactly what Kitsunemimi said.


Also rantai is my new hero

Rantai wrote:

In less subtle words, come at me now. We'll see how good you are.
Lilac
The formula for the most optimal mafia game is m divide by the square root of P, where m is the number of mafia and P is the number of players. I don't know if there are three mafia but I am confident that there is.

I did go for Tanz in the hope of getting reason on him but, like I said in my previous post, I just did not have the time to think straight while in class and I still can't right now when I'm out and about to get home. I'm not getting involved in any lynch because I can not focus right now on to who I want to lynch. I probably won't get home in time before the hammer occurs but I will explain everything tomorrow.
Lilac
EBWOP: Tomorrow as in the next day in this game.
Raging Bull
so...square root of 12 = mafia?
Lilac
Yes. That's how I see it. Use that number to also resolve how much kills and lunches it takes to get to Lylo and that's how I see that formula can hold true.
Lilac
lynches* My phone does that a lot.
Raging Bull
What do you think about Kitsunemimi right now? What is your stance on his(her not sure) no lynch that he offered?
VoidnOwO
:)
Lilac
I think I already stated my stance on this.

Lilac wrote:

Even though we already have a town down, leaving a day without a lynch means a day that town leaves without an informed decision on who is mafia. A Kanye lynch will see whether one of the possible scum teams that I have in mind are true.
Reason I didn't vote for Kanye is because I was not in the right mindset at the time to give a reason and I would never vote anyone without a well thought out reason behind it.
Tanzklaue
deadline is approaching.

RB, pressuring lilac now means that you go indirectly for a lynch against me. if you don't want that, then you shouldn't keep your vote on lilac.

I'm all for pressuring different people, but the deadline is too close to do much pressuring now.
Lilac
If memory serves there's about 50 minutes left or maybe even less so just hang on until I get home. I'll figure something out even though I'm starving. I will get home in about less than 30 so that should be barely enough time to get something out. This is like a marathon guys, stay with me here.
Topic Starter
pieguyn
Votecount 1.(9):

Tanzklaue (3) - Royston, Kanye West, BRBP
Kanye West (2) - fartownik, Tanzklaue
No lynch (2) - Sakura, Kitsunemimi
fartownik (1) - Jinxy
Lilac (1) - Raging Bull

deadline is in 0:53
Tanzklaue

Lilac wrote:

If memory serves there's about 50 minutes left or maybe even less so just hang on until I get home. I'll figure something out even though I'm starving. I will get home in about less than 30 so that should be barely enough time to get something out. This is like a marathon guys, stay with me here.
for me it's like I'm in CPR.

RB, why would you chose now out of all moments to pressure lilac? if you're unsure about kanye being scum after all, say it. if you still think he is likely scum, or more likely than me, then vote him. or else I am most likely dead.
Rantai

Sakura wrote:

Actually it would, we already lost 1 towny today, we could assume we lynched NH instead.

Vote: No Lynch
Holy crap, something in that pile of arguments that makes sense.

Taking a lynch now (with high probability of mislynch) means we're likely going to have to take a no-lynch somewhere down the track anyway (going on the assumption of a 3:9 ratio) because of the messed up numbers. I'd say better to do it now than later.

Vote: No lynch

God I wish my placement ended earlier.
Lilac
Vote: No Lynch

Ugh. Far out. My computer is way too slow to load so I'm using 3G. As much as I said I do not like this I don't think I can convince anyone now to think otherwise and I do concede that another possible town lynch could be really bad.

I will get to the bottom of this.
Tanzklaue
Vote: No Lynch

there won't be a kanye lynch, so there is no reason for me not to vote no lynch now.
Raging Bull
vote no lynch
Topic Starter
pieguyn
oh great sorry for late I was watching Railgun S o.o

Votecount 1.10:

No lynch (6) - Sakura, Kitsunemimi, Rantai, Lilac, Tanzklaue, Raging Bull
Tanzklaue (3) - Royston, Kanye West, BRBP
Kanye West (1) - fartownik
fartownik (1) - Jinxy

*slowly opens door and enters room*
uuu...have you all figured out who did this.. > <


After much commotion and yelling, even after it was supposed to be figured out, the general consensus was that they were going to lynch someone named No Lynch.
hey, what kind of person would be named No Lynch?
No wait, they didn't want to lynch anyone.
but I want justice NOW > < and it's no fun if we don't get to kill anyone... oh well, I guess it can't be helped...
Remi spoke in a sad voice. it seems you made her sad, way to go you heartless people @_@

It is N1. The deadline is 8/1 9:00 GMT, 23:43 from now
Topic Starter
pieguyn
Everyone woke up. However, they immediately noticed something was wrong. As they went from the second floor of the mansion where their rooms were down to the first, they immediately saw a petite figure with horns passed out at the bottom, bleeding. They immediately recognized it as Ibuki Suika, so they figured she just got drunk or something, but when they looked at her, it turned out she hit her head and died..

Rantai (Ibuki Suika) - Neighborizer - fell down a staircase N1

once everyone got downstairs, they immediately noticed someone else was missing. she was so cheerful, plus she was beautifully dressed as a miko.. how could anyone ever forget? They immediately ran back to her room only to find she was stabbed while she was sleeping..

Sakura (Kochiya Sanae) - 2-shot VT Reviver - killed N1

so 2 people died? uuu..this is getting weird, we must figure out what's going on quickly. let's go again ~

It is D2. With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch. The deadline is 8/5 9:00 GMT (95:36 from now)
VoidnOwO
:)
Tanzklaue
I got no result, so I guess I got roleblocked :/

I targeted lilac for the record.
also we have either a SK or a vig amongst us. since there already was a dayvig, and the killmessage says something special, I would say it's probably a SK.
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