Good luck with submitting it.NoHitter wrote:
Grey areas:NoHitter wrote:
So if I have a 2:30 version of a song, and a 4:30 version of a song, with this new rule, I can no longer differentiate between them?
forum
[Rule] Don't use Short, Full or Cut ver.
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Total Posts
109
then you would use what is in the legit title I'm not seeing the confusion here it is quite simplexsrsbsns wrote:
This map previously had the Short Ver. title until a MAT went in and asked that it be removed.
In actual fact the original title is "XXX half chorus Ver." http://vgmdb.net/album/30869
So what's the recommended action now?
half chorus Ver.
more obvious than this
more obvious than this
which wasn't the action taken by the staff so I wanted to make sure, simple as that.ztrot wrote:
then you would use what is in the legit title I'm not seeing the confusion here it is quite simple
The staff aren't perfect. If you believe the staff have made a mistake then grab some proof andxsrsbsns wrote:
which wasn't the action taken by the staff so I wanted to make sure, simple as that.ztrot wrote:
then you would use what is in the legit title I'm not seeing the confusion here it is quite simple
Whoa calm down mister. I clearly WAS grabbing proof from this thread, and that's settled. No need to derail this thread any more.
also... why is this rule exist anyways? Life was simplier without it. No but sincerly, on this thread I see stuff like : "What If I want to map the short version of a song and then map the full version?" which I think the rule is just useless.
I don't know from wich point this ended like this but is just so wrong than I can't even describe it.
First: When you cut a mp3 to reduce is length because it's 6 or more minutes long (for example) it's because you are actually following the rules about length of rankable maps, then you are obviously making the mp3 a short ver. and it's not being lazy or anything like that, it's just make a proper map with a proper length for be played with ranked score.
Second: Cut songs with 3 loops (for lyrics for example) or more it's usually fine and make the map at least less tiring of play, and again, it's a short ver. of the song because it's not the original song at original size.
Third: A song that is not anymore of the original length can't be callled for is full name, just ask yourselves, why companies call short ver. of songs for TV "TV Size"? (for example) and don't use their original name, it's to express than they are not the "original" ver. anymore. It's like when you read a book extract it's called "name of book (extract)" or things like that.
Fourth: Most of people don't read tags, and most of them will not notice a shorten ver. of any song, I take myself as example because I actually mistake some songs for full ver. because they don't say "full ver." or "short ver."
Finally, there are songs that don't have a TV size ver. officially released so you need cut a full ver. to make it a "TV size" length or at least close to that, so with this rule your map will be named "Song Name" without the TV size or Short ver. just because it's from a full ver.? I need say the word for this?
That's all.
First: When you cut a mp3 to reduce is length because it's 6 or more minutes long (for example) it's because you are actually following the rules about length of rankable maps, then you are obviously making the mp3 a short ver. and it's not being lazy or anything like that, it's just make a proper map with a proper length for be played with ranked score.
Second: Cut songs with 3 loops (for lyrics for example) or more it's usually fine and make the map at least less tiring of play, and again, it's a short ver. of the song because it's not the original song at original size.
Third: A song that is not anymore of the original length can't be callled for is full name, just ask yourselves, why companies call short ver. of songs for TV "TV Size"? (for example) and don't use their original name, it's to express than they are not the "original" ver. anymore. It's like when you read a book extract it's called "name of book (extract)" or things like that.
Fourth: Most of people don't read tags, and most of them will not notice a shorten ver. of any song, I take myself as example because I actually mistake some songs for full ver. because they don't say "full ver." or "short ver."
Finally, there are songs that don't have a TV size ver. officially released so you need cut a full ver. to make it a "TV size" length or at least close to that, so with this rule your map will be named "Song Name" without the TV size or Short ver. just because it's from a full ver.? I need say the word for this?
That's all.
You are making this way too complicated in my opinion. What is the problem with Short/TV Size/Full version after the song name. I never really saw any song with "Cut ver." so i searched and i found 264 results. The first one being "Cut ver." and the other 263 probably being "Short ver."those wrote:
Ever since p/1604382, it's come to my attention that there needs to be a consistent way of labeling something as a Cut Version and something as a Short Version. While we're here, we can also discuss TV Size, Full Version, Extended Version, or whatever fits, if necessary.
What should be labeled with Cut Ver.?
A cut in the wave simply refers to the removal of a certain wave section in the music, whether this is at the beginning, end, or a part in the middle.
What should be labeled with Short Ver.?
A Short Version is something that is featured in the source. For example, an OP for an anime is labeled (TV Size), similarly, an OP for a visual novel is labeled (Short Ver.).
What's the difference between the two?
Many themes come with a longer, or full version. A Short Ver. is essentially a Cut Ver. that has already been provided in the album/compilation/soundtrack. A Cut Ver. is a shorter version that someone has made out of the full version, but is not provided in the album/compilation/soundtrack.
Conclusion: from all this, I'd like to propose a rule/guideline that will help make labeling songs more consistent. In general, simply do not add (Short Ver.) or (TV Size) if the song didn't come with it. While this may not be a big issue now, with more and more maps being labeled randomly, there will be a large inconsistency between the two.
Also, while we're on the topic of making metadata more consistent, please continue discussing Eastern Artists Format in this thread: t/83715
There is a pretty huge inconsistency lol. This one song oh god...
Anyways if your talking about anime and VN then what about song from games, are they now game size? They don't really have any label to it because it's just not needed (but i remember one song that has game size in it
). Actually i know one song from a rhythm game that is in fact the same song but again completely different in the game than in the original version. Its a version made for the game.. "Game Ver." (lol)? Game Size?. Don't you think thats a bit retarded if you are going to label anything just because there might be a stupid reason and it might be true but who cares?Also "Cut Ver." just looks stupid and i dont really see alot of songs that even need this. Just because you remove the last part of the mp3 file, because of another rule, you are no longer allowed to call it short version, based on your post. So everyone from now on has to call their edited mp3 file "Cut Ver." (according to your post) unless they find an official short version of the same song so you admins can give some peace for once*facepalm*.
Why make it so hard...?
TV Size: The song in a version used for TV shows openings/endings.
Short Ver: Obvious but obviously not. A song in it's shortened version.
Full Version: A song in its full length/version.
Extended Version: Same song but longer than the original one. (can't find the words to describe it more clearly, common sense is suggested)
Cut Ver.: The only thing i would really label like that, is if you really cut out parts throughout the song so it does really sound different than it's supposed to be. That's the only reason for me to label a song like that. Shortening a song is defenitely not this. <_<
maybe cut ver.can be added on tags ? o m o cuz when add Cut Ver. on the title seems asdf .__. idk what am I saying but that was just my opinion otl
You are the guys that are looking at it in a complicated way, probably should've edited the OP too.
TV Size is fine since all (or most) songs are labelled like that officially, TV Size is usually are very weird and different cut that was made specifically for the OP/ED version of the song.
Just go with whatever the official album/wikipedia tell you it's called and you'll be fine.
Edit: After some talk with other BATs and MATs this will be reconsidered, current suggestion is to Add Short/Cut ver. when you cut at least 50% of the song (or the version is at least 50% of the full ver.), TV Size would continue the same way as usual.
TV Size is fine since all (or most) songs are labelled like that officially, TV Size is usually are very weird and different cut that was made specifically for the OP/ED version of the song.
Just go with whatever the official album/wikipedia tell you it's called and you'll be fine.
Edit: After some talk with other BATs and MATs this will be reconsidered, current suggestion is to Add Short/Cut ver. when you cut at least 50% of the song (or the version is at least 50% of the full ver.), TV Size would continue the same way as usual.
I'm fine with this compromise.Sakura wrote:
Edit: After some talk with other BATs and MATs this will be reconsidered, current suggestion is to Add Short/Cut ver. when you cut at least 50% of the song (or the version is at least 50% of the full ver.), TV Size would continue the same way as usual.
It at least allows people to judge more or less the length of a song from the title, and prevents any submission errors from people wanting to map the short and full version of a song.
actually ..i got another question about my map:
http://osu.ppy.sh/s/52386
it is an "remix ver" which is cut from original tv size and extend to 8 times length for a collab programme
so which label may be suggested...? i'd like to add a "long ver" or "infinite ver" but don't know if it's allowed or not.
http://osu.ppy.sh/s/52386
it is an "remix ver" which is cut from original tv size and extend to 8 times length for a collab programme
so which label may be suggested...? i'd like to add a "long ver" or "infinite ver" but don't know if it's allowed or not.
i afraid cant use this song title later : 
Scorpiour → you can follow the title the creator used
zeroclover → You can use it. tRiCkStAr Remix is a remix, not a particular version.
zeroclover → You can use it. tRiCkStAr Remix is a remix, not a particular version.
After talking it out a bit more it is seemed this is better fitting for a guideline I suppose there are to many cases of artists being silly as for maps they were changed they don't have to be changed back unless the mapper feels the need to add this to there title and unless you cut more than 50% for a song there is no need to really state it unless you really want to. Still subject to change
Most of japanese songs can be cut at 1/3 of its length or 2/3 of its length (for example), first case is usually called "TV size" and second can be called a "Short ver." so I suggest raise that 50% to ~65% (no more than 70%), it will be more accurate. Still, I think, if a mapper can give a proper explanation of why add "Short ver." or anything like that it will be enough.ztrot wrote:
After talking it out a bit more it is seemed this is better fitting for a guideline I suppose there are to many cases of artists being silly as for maps they were changed they don't have to be changed back unless the mapper feels the need to add this to there title and unless you cut more than 50% for a song there is no need to really state it unless you really want to. Still subject to change
~
Topic Starter
My view on this still has not changed from the very beginning:
If you made the cut yourself, the version is (Cut Ver.).
If you found it from the soundtrack already cut for you, the version is (Short Ver.).
How confusing can it get?
If you made the cut yourself, the version is (Cut Ver.).
If you found it from the soundtrack already cut for you, the version is (Short Ver.).
How confusing can it get?
Why not use a general label for any song edited by yourself, that means make it shorter or larger or any other type of edit, to make noticeable any sort of change to the song.those wrote:
My view on this still has not changed from the very beginning:
If you made the cut yourself, the version is (Cut Ver.).
If you found it from the soundtrack already cut for you, the version is (Short Ver.).
How confusing can it get?
Just saying.
PD: http://osu.ppy.sh/p/beatmaplist?s=7&o=1 ... 0&g=0&la=0
Mercurial
@Mercurialthose wrote:
My view on this still has not changed from the very beginning:
If you made the cut yourself, the version is (Cut Ver.).
If you found it from the soundtrack already cut for you, the version is (Short Ver.).
How confusing can it get?
So did this thread reached any conclusion (after two months of being dead)?
Else I'd mark this thread with a flame and move it.
Else I'd mark this thread with a flame and move it.
Apparantly not. Feel free to dig this out if you think that another reconsideration is required and move it back.
This just doesn't matter, what is the point on creating random rules?
I have no clue what's so difficult on this:
Short Ver. = A shorter Version of the Song which is offical.
Cut Ver. = A shorter Version of the Song which is unoffical.
Full Ver. does not really exist. We got TV Size or Short Ver. but no real Full Ver.
http://osu.ppy.sh/s/11841 <- Actually a Cut Ver.
http://osu.ppy.sh/s/14405 <- The original Version which does not require (Full Ver.) in the Title.
Short Ver. = A shorter Version of the Song which is offical.
Cut Ver. = A shorter Version of the Song which is unoffical.
Full Ver. does not really exist. We got TV Size or Short Ver. but no real Full Ver.
http://osu.ppy.sh/s/11841 <- Actually a Cut Ver.
http://osu.ppy.sh/s/14405 <- The original Version which does not require (Full Ver.) in the Title.
Using Cut or Short ver. is very usefull, you will know how long is the song, or if it is the original one ...
I think Cut or Short version is good since you know how long is the song (as this sad above), and you will know this is not the original one. Someone cutted (officially or not) it. And Short version song does exist so we should use them as well.
Huh I am not sure if I said somewhere that Short Ver./Cut Ver. does not exist nor is neccessary to use. o.o
@Kurokami: I gave my mind what I see as Cut and as Short Version. A Cut Version is when you are not mapping the full Song and having like 20~25% of the Song empty because of various reasons. And since you HAD to cut the Song in case you're mapping less than 80% the term "Cut Ver." would fit right (and would be used right).
Other thing to Short Versions: These are complete and not cutted but still shorter as the Original Version. As Example:
http://osu.ppy.sh/s/39031 <- Short Version
http://osu.ppy.sh/s/40873 <- The full Song but since it's the Original we do not set (Full Ver.) in the Title?
@Kurokami: I gave my mind what I see as Cut and as Short Version. A Cut Version is when you are not mapping the full Song and having like 20~25% of the Song empty because of various reasons. And since you HAD to cut the Song in case you're mapping less than 80% the term "Cut Ver." would fit right (and would be used right).
Other thing to Short Versions: These are complete and not cutted but still shorter as the Original Version. As Example:
http://osu.ppy.sh/s/39031 <- Short Version
http://osu.ppy.sh/s/40873 <- The full Song but since it's the Original we do not set (Full Ver.) in the Title?
@Stefan I know what is the difference between them. I just tried to point out they aren't the original full lengh songs. So we should use them in the title.
this is largely ignored as a guideline and all variants of the ver. tag in song/beatmap names look extremely poor and out of place.
accordingly, this guideline is now considered as a rule and maps that violate it henceforth are candidates for unranking.
accordingly, this guideline is now considered as a rule and maps that violate it henceforth are candidates for unranking.
Sorry, I don't get it. This should be reconsidered.Ephemeral wrote:
this is largely ignored as a guideline and all variants of the ver. tag in song/beatmap names look extremely poor and out of place.
accordingly, this guideline is now considered as a rule and maps that violate it henceforth are candidates for unranking.
I think so as well since it indicates whether the song is short, extended, cut, full, etc.ykcarrot wrote:
Sorry, I don't get it. This should be reconsidered.
Quoting this:
I don't agree with this rule neither, I agree with carrot. This should be reconsider, or just move this back as a guideline, really.mancusojuanmattos wrote:
Really, this rule is really unnecesary, Does it hurt in some way if we have 'Short ver.' in title?
I don't think so, really.
Until now no one likes the idea, you should reconsider it.Ephemeral wrote:
this is largely ignored as a guideline and all variants of the ver. tag in song/beatmap names look extremely poor and out of place.
accordingly, this guideline is now considered as a rule and maps that violate it henceforth are candidates for unranking.
I agree!
Konei wrote:
I agree!
Posting here,
will edit with my opinion.
will edit with my opinion.
Yeah, this makes little to no sense as an unrank factor.
Try this:
https://osu.ppy.sh/p/beatmaplist?q=go!g ... 0&g=0&la=0
What do you assume when you see this? First map being full version and the second one being TV Size. Right? Well, both are TV Size, the first one was just incorrectly labeled (it's an old map).
So let me ask this: Why should we now make "short ver." and "cut ver." songs indistinguishable from full songs? Imagine there were a map for the full song; you wouldn't know at all which map was the full one.
So yes, this is a silly rule. You should instead enforce the use of labels if they aren't full songs. From what I can see, that's what's being done recently; not labeling full songs, but labeling shorter versions.
https://osu.ppy.sh/p/beatmaplist?q=go!g ... 0&g=0&la=0
What do you assume when you see this? First map being full version and the second one being TV Size. Right? Well, both are TV Size, the first one was just incorrectly labeled (it's an old map).
So let me ask this: Why should we now make "short ver." and "cut ver." songs indistinguishable from full songs? Imagine there were a map for the full song; you wouldn't know at all which map was the full one.
So yes, this is a silly rule. You should instead enforce the use of labels if they aren't full songs. From what I can see, that's what's being done recently; not labeling full songs, but labeling shorter versions.
Hooray i like this song, gonna download this now~
What? its not full version/cuted? meh~
Just my 2 cents, i don't think this rule is necessary too.
What? its not full version/cuted? meh~
Just my 2 cents, i don't think this rule is necessary too.
There are (at least) many songs from visual novel that officially states "<song name> (Short Ver./Version)". Not allowing to put Short Ver. when it's the title of the song itself is silly imo.
I'm ok with not allowing to put Cut/Full Ver. unless it's stated in am official source.
I'm ok with not allowing to put Cut/Full Ver. unless it's stated in am official source.
Needs some case-by-case handling so we don't end up having to unrank a map whose title actually has an <insert> ver. as part of it.
That's already covered by the rule proposed in the OP though:
Still, it's still going to be confusing, especially when it's a popular song, to determine if the map is the full song or a cut version of it, lol. Imagine 5 maps of the same song where 3 are short while 2 are full. As a player, I'd like to know which is what.those wrote:
Conclusion: from all this, I'd like to propose a rule/guideline that will help make labeling songs more consistent. In general, simply do not add (Short Ver.) or (TV Size) if the song didn't come with it. While this may not be a big issue now, with more and more maps being labeled randomly, there will be a large inconsistency between the two.5
@CXu I don't think that we should involve old Maps in this discussion since most people didn't really cared off about the correct Title, Artist, etc.
I wonder why things like https://osu.ppy.sh/s/39031 / https://osu.ppy.sh/s/40873 or https://osu.ppy.sh/s/59569 / https://osu.ppy.sh/s/72119 having the same Name but the one is shorter/longer as the another one. Of course there are sometimes more as one version of a single Song. But how should we actually deal with these Things? The first Maps (I've named above) are technically Short Ver. of the second Maps, or did I forgot something here?
I wonder why things like https://osu.ppy.sh/s/39031 / https://osu.ppy.sh/s/40873 or https://osu.ppy.sh/s/59569 / https://osu.ppy.sh/s/72119 having the same Name but the one is shorter/longer as the another one. Of course there are sometimes more as one version of a single Song. But how should we actually deal with these Things? The first Maps (I've named above) are technically Short Ver. of the second Maps, or did I forgot something here?
I was using that old map as an example to show how not labeling the maps would be confusing.
About the maps you linked: then enforce proper labeling of songs instead, lol. I mean, 1 label for each case instead of 1 label for like 3 cases is bound to be less confusing, right?.
About the maps you linked: then enforce proper labeling of songs instead, lol. I mean, 1 label for each case instead of 1 label for like 3 cases is bound to be less confusing, right?.
Yes I agree that the rule makes no sense, and just bother people because they need to click the map to know whether it is a 1:30 version. Once I like to find short maps this way, but things changed when this comes out.
It just needs a correct usage of the labels. That's all. Sonnyc' GENTLEMAN Map as example is correct.
Just wondering, you need to actually find an official source that (Short Ver.) is used or just simply finding a full version of the song is fine? The problem with finding an offical source for the shorten mp3 is that a short ver. of a song is not always included in the OST or singles and on the official website, there is sometime no link to the mp3, simply a demo movie [=> so (Demo Ver.) then?). Also some full version to songs are extremely hard to find or not released yet (read below).
For example, I try to see if the recently unranked map because of this rule had any official source of short ver., but couldn't find any download link to mp3 on official website (like here http://puu.sh/3eYmg.png), simply demo movie and didn't see any source in particular which include short ver. I also tried to search for a full version, but couldn't find one yet (just because it doesn't exist at this point in time, doesn't mean it doesn't exist; "demo" ver. released 2010 - full ver. found on an album in 2012, two years later! Note that this happens quite frequently).
It's commonly accepted for visual novel/eroge songs to have short ver. so I'm a bit surprised by the unranked of that beatmap to be honest.
Just adding to the discussion, I would like to see this rule changed too. The only reason I've seen so far is that it's for aesthetic? Is this really the only reason? As others had mention, it really help distinguish the length of maps in beatmap listing on the website and game. I also find that the current rule relies that the mapper knows perfectly whether short ver. is in the title or not and not all mappers are aware where to search for this.
For example, I try to see if the recently unranked map because of this rule had any official source of short ver., but couldn't find any download link to mp3 on official website (like here http://puu.sh/3eYmg.png), simply demo movie and didn't see any source in particular which include short ver. I also tried to search for a full version, but couldn't find one yet (just because it doesn't exist at this point in time, doesn't mean it doesn't exist; "demo" ver. released 2010 - full ver. found on an album in 2012, two years later! Note that this happens quite frequently).
It's commonly accepted for visual novel/eroge songs to have short ver. so I'm a bit surprised by the unranked of that beatmap to be honest.
Just adding to the discussion, I would like to see this rule changed too. The only reason I've seen so far is that it's for aesthetic? Is this really the only reason? As others had mention, it really help distinguish the length of maps in beatmap listing on the website and game. I also find that the current rule relies that the mapper knows perfectly whether short ver. is in the title or not and not all mappers are aware where to search for this.
Kodora
^thiseldnl wrote:
Using Cut or Short ver. is very usefull, you will know how long is the song, or if it is the original one ...