merchat7 wrote:

Overall, I'm still confused. I have seen countless time in official video and official album that the titles are different, which one should be followed? I also do not understand why only tv size is being kept, I don't think I've seen tv size in any anime opening/ending or in any ost yet except for maybe titles of some youtube video and that's it. Let's just say, the amount of time I've seen tv size is around the same amount as the times I've seen short ver.(ost/theme song/maxi single)

Basically:
-Why is tv size being kept?
-What is a real official title? Please also make this more clear in the respective sections (osu wiki, this post...) for less confusion in the future.

This is my sentiments.
They(anime and eroge) are very similar in every points.

so no Cut ver/Short ver/Full ver now....

what about other special ver i.e. PV ver, remix ver, or something else?

Just add some system about this on osu! ???
Not submission but technically...

Until now, we added title extension for specifying its length easily, not for following the real title.
Maybe length shown in game can specify the music. But we don't know whether there exist Full ver. or not through the length.
I really don't see big problem with thing that we did until now.

As arken1015 said, adding some system might be a good solution.
Have any ideas?

merchat7 wrote:

Overall, I'm still confused. I have seen countless time in official video and official album that the titles are different, which one should be followed? I also do not understand why only tv size is being kept, I don't think I've seen tv size in any anime opening/ending or in any ost yet except for maybe titles of some youtube video and that's it. Let's just say, the amount of time I've seen tv size is around the same amount as the times I've seen short ver.(ost/theme song/maxi single)

Basically:
-Why is tv size being kept?
-What is a real official title? Please also make this more clear in the respective sections (osu wiki, this post...) for less confusion in the future.

for TV Size, it has been used for a long time in our history, and there're already many players choosing maps by this. as full version of OP/ED usually get mapped, it does be a effective way to let us tell the difference between them.

second point, if you find the title in PV and CD booklet different, they should be both acceptable. I'd suggest using the one which is different from other versions' though

about the system for this messed things, I think showing the length of the longest diff in the map list would help in searching, and even the titles are the same, it's still easy for players to get what they need

From the wiki

Refrain from using Short, Full, or Cut Ver. in your map title unless the extension is listed in the song's original title. Refer to Wikipedia, Google, or the album track list to confirm.

ztrot wrote:

From the wiki

Refrain from using Short, Full, or Cut Ver. in your map title unless the extension is listed in the song's original title. Refer to Wikipedia, Google, or the album track list to confirm.

According to its logic, also TV Size must be removed.

EDIT : OK, I understand what this means.
It seems the video(OP/ED) can't be supporting evidence.

did you not read this part? unless the extension is listed in the song's original title almost every TV size has this in it's song title for real

This map previously had the Short Ver. title until a MAT went in and asked that it be removed.

In actual fact the original title is "XXX half chorus Ver." http://vgmdb.net/album/30869
So what's the recommended action now?

Okay, I have to ask about some example like for kors k vs. L.E.D. - SOLID STATE SQUAD
http://osu.ppy.sh/s/15630
http://osu.ppy.sh/s/27148

I never played beatmania, but how should we handle with them?

Another example is fripside - future gazer
http://osu.ppy.sh/s/23102
http://osu.ppy.sh/s/33575

There is also something with Yousei Teikoku - Kuusou Mesorogiwi, but it is the same as the second example.
They are already ranked, I know, but for the future if this happens again, what does the creator have to do?

Honestly, the status quo was much better than this.
Too many grey area maps that arose from this change.

NoHitter wrote:

Honestly, the status quo was much better than this.
Too many grey area maps that arose from this change.

What's so hard about researching it in whichever source you have?, it's as black and white as if it's in the official title = yes, if it's not = no

Grey areas:

NoHitter wrote:

So if I have a 2:30 version of a song, and a 4:30 version of a song, with this new rule, I can no longer differentiate between them?

NoHitter wrote:

So if I have a 2:30 version of a song, and a 4:30 version of a song, with this new rule, I can no longer differentiate between them?

Easy.

1. Add 'Short' to the tags to aid those searching for Short versions
2. Look at the Total Time / Draining Time information provided on the site.

Having it in the title is more convenient though.
The beatmap listing doesn't exactly have the draining time/tags listed.

NoHitter wrote:

Grey areas:

NoHitter wrote:

So if I have a 2:30 version of a song, and a 4:30 version of a song, with this new rule, I can no longer differentiate between them?

Good luck with submitting it.

xsrsbsns wrote:

This map previously had the Short Ver. title until a MAT went in and asked that it be removed.

In actual fact the original title is "XXX half chorus Ver." http://vgmdb.net/album/30869
So what's the recommended action now?

then you would use what is in the legit title I'm not seeing the confusion here it is quite simple

half chorus Ver.

more obvious than this

ztrot wrote:

then you would use what is in the legit title I'm not seeing the confusion here it is quite simple

which wasn't the action taken by the staff so I wanted to make sure, simple as that.

xsrsbsns wrote:

ztrot wrote:

then you would use what is in the legit title I'm not seeing the confusion here it is quite simple

which wasn't the action taken by the staff so I wanted to make sure, simple as that.

The staff aren't perfect. If you believe the staff have made a mistake then grab some proof and shove it in their faces show it to them. They'll typically go, "Oh, okay," and leave it at that if you do so.

Whoa calm down mister. I clearly WAS grabbing proof from this thread, and that's settled. No need to derail this thread any more.

Yeah, nice change.

I'm a Lucky Guy, I just ranked my Tv Size song 4 days ago

also... why is this rule exist anyways? Life was simplier without it. No but sincerly, on this thread I see stuff like : "What If I want to map the short version of a song and then map the full version?" which I think the rule is just useless.

I don't know from wich point this ended like this but is just so wrong than I can't even describe it.

First: When you cut a mp3 to reduce is length because it's 6 or more minutes long (for example) it's because you are actually following the rules about length of rankable maps, then you are obviously making the mp3 a short ver. and it's not being lazy or anything like that, it's just make a proper map with a proper length for be played with ranked score.

Second: Cut songs with 3 loops (for lyrics for example) or more it's usually fine and make the map at least less tiring of play, and again, it's a short ver. of the song because it's not the original song at original size.

Third: A song that is not anymore of the original length can't be callled for is full name, just ask yourselves, why companies call short ver. of songs for TV "TV Size"? (for example) and don't use their original name, it's to express than they are not the "original" ver. anymore. It's like when you read a book extract it's called "name of book (extract)" or things like that.

Fourth: Most of people don't read tags, and most of them will not notice a shorten ver. of any song, I take myself as example because I actually mistake some songs for full ver. because they don't say "full ver." or "short ver."

Finally, there are songs that don't have a TV size ver. officially released so you need cut a full ver. to make it a "TV size" length or at least close to that, so with this rule your map will be named "Song Name" without the TV size or Short ver. just because it's from a full ver.? I need say the word for this?

That's all.

those wrote:

Ever since p/1604382, it's come to my attention that there needs to be a consistent way of labeling something as a Cut Version and something as a Short Version. While we're here, we can also discuss TV Size, Full Version, Extended Version, or whatever fits, if necessary.

What should be labeled with Cut Ver.?
A cut in the wave simply refers to the removal of a certain wave section in the music, whether this is at the beginning, end, or a part in the middle.

What should be labeled with Short Ver.?
A Short Version is something that is featured in the source. For example, an OP for an anime is labeled (TV Size), similarly, an OP for a visual novel is labeled (Short Ver.).

What's the difference between the two?
Many themes come with a longer, or full version. A Short Ver. is essentially a Cut Ver. that has already been provided in the album/compilation/soundtrack. A Cut Ver. is a shorter version that someone has made out of the full version, but is not provided in the album/compilation/soundtrack.

Conclusion: from all this, I'd like to propose a rule/guideline that will help make labeling songs more consistent. In general, simply do not add (Short Ver.) or (TV Size) if the song didn't come with it. While this may not be a big issue now, with more and more maps being labeled randomly, there will be a large inconsistency between the two.

Also, while we're on the topic of making metadata more consistent, please continue discussing Eastern Artists Format in this thread: t/83715

You are making this way too complicated in my opinion. What is the problem with Short/TV Size/Full version after the song name. I never really saw any song with "Cut ver." so i searched and i found 264 results. The first one being "Cut ver." and the other 263 probably being "Short ver."

There is a pretty huge inconsistency lol. This one song oh god...
Anyways if your talking about anime and VN then what about song from games, are they now game size? They don't really have any label to it because it's just not needed (but i remember one song that has game size in it ). Actually i know one song from a rhythm game that is in fact the same song but again completely different in the game than in the original version. Its a version made for the game.. "Game Ver." (lol)? Game Size?. Don't you think thats a bit retarded if you are going to label anything just because there might be a stupid reason and it might be true but who cares?

Also "Cut Ver." just looks stupid and i dont really see alot of songs that even need this. Just because you remove the last part of the mp3 file, because of another rule, you are no longer allowed to call it short version, based on your post. So everyone from now on has to call their edited mp3 file "Cut Ver." (according to your post) unless they find an official short version of the same song so you admins can give some peace for once*facepalm*.

Why make it so hard...?

TV Size: The song in a version used for TV shows openings/endings.
Short Ver: Obvious but obviously not. A song in it's shortened version.
Full Version: A song in its full length/version.
Extended Version: Same song but longer than the original one. (can't find the words to describe it more clearly, common sense is suggested)
Cut Ver.: The only thing i would really label like that, is if you really cut out parts throughout the song so it does really sound different than it's supposed to be. That's the only reason for me to label a song like that. Shortening a song is defenitely not this. <_<

maybe cut ver.can be added on tags ? o m o cuz when add Cut Ver. on the title seems asdf .__. idk what am I saying but that was just my opinion otl

You are the guys that are looking at it in a complicated way, probably should've edited the OP too.

TV Size is fine since all (or most) songs are labelled like that officially, TV Size is usually are very weird and different cut that was made specifically for the OP/ED version of the song.

Just go with whatever the official album/wikipedia tell you it's called and you'll be fine.

Edit: After some talk with other BATs and MATs this will be reconsidered, current suggestion is to Add Short/Cut ver. when you cut at least 50% of the song (or the version is at least 50% of the full ver.), TV Size would continue the same way as usual.

Sakura wrote:

Edit: After some talk with other BATs and MATs this will be reconsidered, current suggestion is to Add Short/Cut ver. when you cut at least 50% of the song (or the version is at least 50% of the full ver.), TV Size would continue the same way as usual.

I'm fine with this compromise.
It at least allows people to judge more or less the length of a song from the title, and prevents any submission errors from people wanting to map the short and full version of a song.

actually ..i got another question about my map:
http://osu.ppy.sh/s/52386

it is an "remix ver" which is cut from original tv size and extend to 8 times length for a collab programme

so which label may be suggested...? i'd like to add a "long ver" or "infinite ver" but don't know if it's allowed or not.

i afraid cant use this song title later :

Scorpiour → you can follow the title the creator used
zeroclover → You can use it. tRiCkStAr Remix is a remix, not a particular version.

After talking it out a bit more it is seemed this is better fitting for a guideline I suppose there are to many cases of artists being silly as for maps they were changed they don't have to be changed back unless the mapper feels the need to add this to there title and unless you cut more than 50% for a song there is no need to really state it unless you really want to. Still subject to change

ztrot wrote:

After talking it out a bit more it is seemed this is better fitting for a guideline I suppose there are to many cases of artists being silly as for maps they were changed they don't have to be changed back unless the mapper feels the need to add this to there title and unless you cut more than 50% for a song there is no need to really state it unless you really want to. Still subject to change

Most of japanese songs can be cut at 1/3 of its length or 2/3 of its length (for example), first case is usually called "TV size" and second can be called a "Short ver." so I suggest raise that 50% to ~65% (no more than 70%), it will be more accurate. Still, I think, if a mapper can give a proper explanation of why add "Short ver." or anything like that it will be enough.

~

My view on this still has not changed from the very beginning:
If you made the cut yourself, the version is (Cut Ver.).
If you found it from the soundtrack already cut for you, the version is (Short Ver.).
How confusing can it get?

those wrote:

My view on this still has not changed from the very beginning:
If you made the cut yourself, the version is (Cut Ver.).
If you found it from the soundtrack already cut for you, the version is (Short Ver.).
How confusing can it get?

Why not use a general label for any song edited by yourself, that means make it shorter or larger or any other type of edit, to make noticeable any sort of change to the song.
Just saying.

PD: http://osu.ppy.sh/p/beatmaplist?s=7&o=1 ... 0&g=0&la=0

Gonz just updated this thread

I still don't know how this ends...

those wrote:

My view on this still has not changed from the very beginning:
If you made the cut yourself, the version is (Cut Ver.).
If you found it from the soundtrack already cut for you, the version is (Short Ver.).
How confusing can it get?

@Mercurial

So did this thread reached any conclusion (after two months of being dead)?
Else I'd mark this thread with a flame and move it.

Apparantly not. Feel free to dig this out if you think that another reconsideration is required and move it back.

This just doesn't matter, what is the point on creating random rules?