I want to discuss and propose to change the random mod to be a ranked mod. It should have no benefit to the score and also no decrease to it.
And why should it be ranked? Because for me atleast it is the most fun mod to play. You can play your favorite songs over and over again and allways have a different experience, while the notes and the map keep the same (just not the position). It gives other difficulties while it removes other difficulties and makes your finger move different ways while still playing the same song.

Most people will probably say no to make it ranked because they think "you guys only want this mod to make maps easier to play". That is partly true but in fact the random mod usually makes things harder if you are not playing easy songs. It can make that certain part that is hard for you more playable but on the side it will probably make the rest of the map alot more difficult. It is generally a great mod to improve your own skill because you dont fall into habits when playing and you are challanged to react to notes and improve your own game instead of falling into a habit to remember things and patterns etc.

For me personally i think it is equal to a no mod gameplay. I would rate FCing a song without mods as difficult as FCing a song with random.
Well to sum it up. It could make things easier for you but it does not necessary do it, and it will most likely (even more as you progress to higher difficulty songs) make things way harder and even unplayable for you because patterns actually make the game easier, in that way random is a difficulty increase.

Well im curious for feedback allthough i think it will be probably rejected anyways

I agree that random is a great mod, but really it does makes things easier. For most people at least. I think.

In any case it has the potential to make things easier and that's not fair. A very important part about ranking plays is that everybody plays the exact same thing.

No, it can never be ranked.

BRBP wrote:

No, it can never be ranked.

That's a very compelling argument you have there.

iantanye wrote:

I agree that random is a great mod, but really it does makes things easier. For most people at least. I think.

In any case it has the potential to make things easier and that's not fair. A very important part about ranking plays is that everybody plays the exact same thing.

Hanyuu wrote:

For me personally i think it is equal to a no mod gameplay. I would rate FCing a song without mods as difficult as FCing a song with random.
Well to sum it up.

The challenge in mania map are usually the long ladder types which would never be present with random mod. I could also just retry and retry until i get the best possible arrangement accord to my style, so generally it will make most easier.

[Shiroyasha] wrote:

I could also just retry and retry until i get the best possible arrangement accord to my style, so generally it will make most easier.

I don't think random should be ranked for this right here. Random is a good bit of fun, but it can potentially give you a MUCH easier note layout on a song and give you an advantage over someone playing it straight.

Although if it were a minus multiplier like say, 0.9× or something I wouldn't mind. Even if that doesn't really give anyone a real incentive to get their top score on a song with it enabled.

iantanye wrote:

A very important part about ranking plays is that everybody plays the exact same thing.

This.

Also I think it's the wrong subforum to talk about this.

Lybydose wrote:

BRBP wrote:

No, it can never be ranked.

That's a very compelling argument you have there.

You play o!m as well, you know why it can't be ranked.

BRBP wrote:

You play o!m as well, you know why it can't be ranked.

That isn't a compelling argument either.

I somehow agree of having a Random mod but I do not want the score to be recorded.

Some patterns in mania are just hard to hit because of their structure. Using the random mod sometimes makes it Harder or Easier so you really can't tell whether it should increase or decrease your score.

Since you stated that you only want it for fun, I'd say this Random mod should be added in the Special Mod Section like Relax and Autopilot mode.

BRBP wrote:

You play o!m as well, you know why it can't be ranked.

You still haven't given me any sort of argument, but I will link you here as a rebuttal.

BRBP, either make a proper argument, or stop posting.

So far here are the points raised by people:

Reasons people suggest Random be rankable:
1. Ranking random gives much more incentive to play with random
2. In higher difficulty situations, random often increases the overall difficulty of a map.


Reasons people suggest Random not be rankable:
1. Random has the potential to decrease the overall difficulty and specifically has the potential to reduce the difficulty of specific difficult patterns.
2. Random could be abused by retrying until a good pattern is found.
3. Random undermines ranking because players must be compared playing the same patterns.

My view on things:

I'm actually still struggling with whether or not Random should actually be Rankable. Part of me wants it to be rankable because being able to compare your score via the ranking system is something I enjoy. Part of me also believes that it shouldn't be rankable because of point 3 against ranking it.

However, I want to point something out that needs to be taken into account: The current ranking system is far from an effective measurement of a player's skill. This has been discussed numerous time, and most people would likely agree that the ranking system needs work. Because of the fact that the current ranking system is very broken, I actually don't see a problem with making Random rankable, simply because there is no way you could undermine the ranking system worse than it's own internal workings already have.

As Lybydose pointed out, IIDX treats Random and S-Random the same as any other score (as do O2jam and Stepmana). While I believe that some people may abuse the ability to retry again and again to get a new pattern, I don't believe that degrades ranking any worse than it's inherent issues either.

See the common thread here? In a perfect world, Random should be rankable because it should be possible to determine and adjust your score modifier based on what impact each particular permutation would have on difficulty. In a world where that is not yet possible, ideally it shouldn't be rankabe because the ranking system would not be able to adjust for the change in difficulty it would introduce. However, the current ranking system is so far broken that I believe no impact that random may have would be worse than the problems that are inherent in the current system.

TL;DR Ranking is broken. Random won't fix it, but it's not going to suddenly make rankings more useless than they already are.

Philippines wrote:

I somehow agree of having a Random mod but I do not want the score to be recorded.

Some patterns in mania are just hard to hit because of their structure. Using the random mod sometimes makes it Harder or Easier so you really can't tell whether it should increase or decrease your score.

Since you stated that you only want it for fun, I'd say this Random mod should be added in the Special Mod Section like Relax and Autopilot mode.

>.< it maybe like those mods still i find it more fun than playing with autopilot or relax. Afterall your still playing the game and not some lazy mode. Also i think by saying "fun" not that this mod is some extra gimmicky stuff rarely do or just once in while. I still think this mod should be weighted but i can see the factor that everyone not get the same thing as a counteractive to ranking. But yeah i still dont see a problem myself in this matter but i think i get what you mean