People will mostly make maps for 7k. This is true, so I'm moving away from it into 6k and 8k, because I hate the spacebar.
Mind you, I can play 7k.
Mind you, I can play 7k.
A I do not like the space barAgka wrote:
People will mostly make maps for 7k. This is true, so I'm moving away from it into 6k and 8k, because I hate the spacebar.
Mind you, I can play 7k.
Wow, that sounds horrible :/ All I had to adjust for was my hands being a bit close lol.[AirCoN] wrote:
i don't have horizontal rollover for 3keys or more lol. I'm stuck with 5K - fv b hu.
however, i think 7K might work if I use rfv "space" bhu
From: http://blog.controlspace.org/2010/08/n- ... ow-to.htmlBRBP wrote:
All I had to do is buy a USB-keyboard and use any 7-key combination I want.
Life's hard.
USB protocol limitation - A max of 10 simultaneous key presses are recognized, 6 non-modifier keys ('w', 'a', 's', 'd', etc) + 4 modifier keys (Shift, Caps, Ctrl, etc). Although you are limited to 6 regular keys you are still guaranteed that any combination of keys will be recognized properly if you have an n-key rollover keyboard. I would guess that most people would not need support for more keys than this. I would also guess that the 6 key limit may have had something to do with braille input requirements rather than someone choosing an arbitrary limit (although that doesn't explain why the limit exists in the first place).Unless your keyboard uses some unusual custom drivers, you must be using a modifier key to get 7 keys at once over USB. I suggest everyone check out that link, since it explains ghosting and n-key rollover fairly well.
Obviously.Bobbias wrote:
custom drivers
Just jump into 7k :3 You'll get to impress the ladies, and everyone will want to be your friendShadow wrote:
So, I've decided to move away from 4k, since I wanted a bigger challenge. So, last week or so I've been messing around with 6k. (with the ultimate goal of moving over to 7k in the end of the day) I'm still missing a lot, but I'm slowly getting the hang of it. Liking it a lot too.
I'm just wondering if I'm shooting myself in the foot? Should I skip 6k, bite the bullet and jump straight to 7k? Or, once I'm decent at 6k, will it help make 7key easier to learn?
While it is true that USB does not allow more than 6 keys at once, if you connect your USB keyboard to a PS/2 port via a USB to PS/2 converter, it WILL get over the USB 6-key limit (not the keyboard's inherent ghosting, though)Bobbias wrote:
USB keyboards can't use more than 6 keys at once, due to limitations in how USB works. PS/2, the old round connector, can allow more than 6 keys at once, but most keyboards still have ghosting issues. Connecting a USB keyboard through a USB to PS/2 converter will NOT help.
Can you show me something that proves that? I don't want to outright say you're wrong, because I don't know everything about how that stuff works, but I was under the impression that it still wouldn't work that way. If you have a link that explains how that works I'd appreciate it (I'm honestly interested to see if that's true). A quick google search says that some keyboard manufacturers (rosewill, and CM Storm's Quickfire keyboards among others) do claim to achieve NKRO through a USB to PS/2 adapter, but that most others still don't. (http://forum.notebookreview.com/accesso ... ost8779284)CooLExtreme wrote:
Just jump into 7k :3 You'll get to impress the ladies, and everyone will want to be your friendShadow wrote:
So, I've decided to move away from 4k, since I wanted a bigger challenge. So, last week or so I've been messing around with 6k. (with the ultimate goal of moving over to 7k in the end of the day) I'm still missing a lot, but I'm slowly getting the hang of it. Liking it a lot too.
I'm just wondering if I'm shooting myself in the foot? Should I skip 6k, bite the bullet and jump straight to 7k? Or, once I'm decent at 6k, will it help make 7key easier to learn?While it is true that USB does not allow more than 6 keys at once, if you connect your USB keyboard to a PS/2 port via a USB to PS/2 converter, it WILL get over the USB 6-key limit (not the keyboard's inherent ghosting, though)Bobbias wrote:
USB keyboards can't use more than 6 keys at once, due to limitations in how USB works. PS/2, the old round connector, can allow more than 6 keys at once, but most keyboards still have ghosting issues. Connecting a USB keyboard through a USB to PS/2 converter will NOT help.
Unfortunately, how it works is well above me. Still, the existence of a single USB keyboard without any special drivers supporting >6KRO through a USB to PS/2 adapter is enough to show that the adapter does in fact help to get over the USB limit. My current keyboard is a Das Keyboard, and it supports NKRO when I connect it via PS/2 through an adapter. I've also had a Microsoft and Samsung keyboard that would do the same (well, not NKRO but >6KRO).Bobbias wrote:
Can you show me something that proves that? I don't want to outright say you're wrong, because I don't know everything about how that stuff works, but I was under the impression that it still wouldn't work that way. If you have a link that explains how that works I'd appreciate it (I'm honestly interested to see if that's true). A quick google search says that some keyboard manufacturers (rosewill, and CM Storm's Quickfire keyboards among others) do claim to achieve NKRO through a USB to PS/2 adapter, but that most others still don't. (http://forum.notebookreview.com/accesso ... ost8779284)
I should also point out that it's confirmed a number of keyboards are stuck with 6kro even with an adapter (in the same thread) and that the keyboard mentioned here are rather expensive compared to your standard $5 basic USB keyboard.
If your wish is to play 7k mode just play it right away. If you never played with so many keys before it can be a hard start though so just start very very basic. At the beginning it is fast to learn and soon you will be able to play atleast easy songs without too much worry. If you want to play 6k just play 6kShadow wrote:
So, I've decided to move away from 4k, since I wanted a bigger challenge. So, last week or so I've been messing around with 6k. (with the ultimate goal of moving over to 7k in the end of the day) I'm still missing a lot, but I'm slowly getting the hang of it. Liking it a lot too.
I'm just wondering if I'm shooting myself in the foot? Should I skip 6k, bite the bullet and jump straight to 7k? Or, once I'm decent at 6k, will it help make 7key easier to learn?
Well yes, ghosting will always be an issue unless you happen to pay for one of the ones with diode circuits. I guess it just comes down to the keyboard itself on whether you're gonna get NKRO using a PS/2 adapter or not... Not an answer I like, but I guess it'll have to do for now. I may do a bit more research on this though. I'm studying electrical engineering and have some computer programming experience, so while I don't actually know much of the details on USB HID implementation, if I can find someone who has figured out how that stuff works, I'll be able to understand it. If I do happen to find out how it works and such, I may post something about it. And yeah, Das is a company I'd expect to have NKRO like that. They make quality stuff (if you can afford to put that much down on a keyboard anyway).CooLExtreme wrote:
Unfortunately, how it works is well above me. Still, the existence of a single USB keyboard without any special drivers supporting >6KRO through a USB to PS/2 adapter is enough to show that the adapter does in fact help to get over the USB limit. My current keyboard is a Das Keyboard, and it supports NKRO when I connect it via PS/2 through an adapter. I've also had a Microsoft and Samsung keyboard that would do the same (well, not NKRO but >6KRO).Bobbias wrote:
Can you show me something that proves that? I don't want to outright say you're wrong, because I don't know everything about how that stuff works, but I was under the impression that it still wouldn't work that way. If you have a link that explains how that works I'd appreciate it (I'm honestly interested to see if that's true). A quick google search says that some keyboard manufacturers (rosewill, and CM Storm's Quickfire keyboards among others) do claim to achieve NKRO through a USB to PS/2 adapter, but that most others still don't. (http://forum.notebookreview.com/accesso ... ost8779284)
I should also point out that it's confirmed a number of keyboards are stuck with 6kro even with an adapter (in the same thread) and that the keyboard mentioned here are rather expensive compared to your standard $5 basic USB keyboard.
Long story short: The adapter works to get over the USB limit, but you're still stuck having to deal with a keyboard's inherent ghosting due to its wiring anyway.
Bobbias wrote:
Well yes, ghosting will always be an issue unless you happen to pay for one of the ones with diode circuits. I guess it just comes down to the keyboard itself on whether you're gonna get NKRO using a PS/2 adapter or not... Not an answer I like, but I guess it'll have to do for now. I may do a bit more research on this though. I'm studying electrical engineering and have some computer programming experience, so while I don't actually know much of the details on USB HID implementation, if I can find someone who has figured out how that stuff works, I'll be able to understand it. If I do happen to find out how it works and such, I may post something about it. And yeah, Das is a company I'd expect to have NKRO like that. They make quality stuff (if you can afford to put that much down on a keyboard anyway).
Maybe we should have a stickied thread explaining ghosting/nkro with a list of keyboards that are confirmed to have NKRO?
Potatoes, tomatoes. Blame the keyboard manufacturers http://www.microsoft.com/appliedscience ... ained.mspx http://www.razerzone.com/gaming-keyboar ... i-ghosting . What is this keyboard that does NKRO through a USB port is what I care about.Yuugo wrote:
I've connected my keyboard with a standard usb cable to a standard usb port. I can press at least 8 keys simultaneously. I don't know what the max is since I've never got a way to try it.I'll update this post later on how this stuff works, I think I've got a book that covers it lying around somewhere.
Okay here we go.
First off let us take a look at the terminology around this. It comes down to three terms that are sadly used interchangeably in the marketing of keyboards, while they are completely different things.Ghosting
- Ghosting
Blocking
Key Rollover
Ghosting is, in contrary to popular belief, NOT the act of keys not being registered. It is, in fact, the opposite. Ghosting comes from an incorrect implementation of the electrical circuit of your keyboard (PM/talk to me in-game if you're interested in how).
Say you press Q and S. You'd want your computer to register just those two keys. A keyboard that 'ghosts' registers an additional ghost-key as well. In this case, most likely the letter A. If you experience ghosting, you need to go back to the store you bought that keyboard and smack them in the face with it. This should not happen these days!
Blocking
Blocking is what people are usually actually talking about when they say ghosting. This is a (bad) solution to prevent ghosting. Basically what it comes down to, is the manufacturer of your keyboard limiting the amount of key-presses that can be registered simultaneously to disable the keyboard from registering a ghost key. Depending on the construction of your keyboard, the amount of keys and the combination of what keys that can be pressed varies from board to board.
Blocking is a solution that was introduced to cut costs of the manufacturing of the keyboards, rather than solving the problem of ghosting, they implemented a (in my opinion, bad) workaround for it.
Key Rollover
This is also named N-Key Rollover, NKRO, 2KRO or 6KRO or WhatevernumberKRO. Well, they're more examples of Key Rollover, but whatever.
So, let's say your manufactured isn't a greedy bastard and actually solves the problem of ghosting by improving their circuitry. The keyboard no longer registers wrong keys and also accepts unlimited simultaneous key-presses. Great! We now have the perfect keyboard that has N-Key Rollover. Sounds like the perfect keyboard to me.
But there is another limiter on the amount of registrations that can me made at the same time. This is your connection to the computer. These are either USB or PS/2(those round plugs that used to be the standard before USB).
PS/2 transfers NKRO perfectly. If your keyboard has a circuitry that supports NKRO and uses a PS/2 plug, you should be able to press all your keys at the same time and have all of them registered fine. This means we now have a perfect keyboard!
USB on the other hand, can be limited to 6KRO. This happens because the most common USB Human Interface Device (HID) protocol used these days do not accept more than 6 simultaneous keys. So now what?
My keyboard is USB, how am I supposed to get N-Key Rollover?
First of all, don't be afraid. There are manufacturers out there that have found solutions to implement inside their boards for NKRO (talk/PM me if you're interested in how). If you're lucky you don't have to do anything.
Next is the tricky part, what if your keyboard is not already NKRO upon delivery?
The first thing you need to do is discover whether your keyboard support 6KRO. If it doesn't, you've sadly fallen victim to price cutting of the manufacturer and there is nothing you can do besides buying a different board. If it does, you can solve the USB HID limit yourself with a USB->PS/2 adapter. If your computer had an input for PS/2, this should solve your problems. Sadly, most new laptops and some minimalistic motherboards do not have an PS/2 port. If this is the case, you wil need a USB->PS/2 adapter AND an active PS/2->USB converter. This converter is specially made to support unlimited keypresses so that would solve your problem as well.
In case you're lazy: TL;DR. Seriously though, read it. At least know what you're talking about so you won't look like an idiot saying your keyboard 'ghosts'.
Ghosting: Keys that are not being pressed are still registered.
Blocking: Keys that are being pressed, are not registered.
Key Rollover: The highest amount of keys that can be registered simultaneously.
USB limit:
Got 6KRO? Get a USB->PS/2 adapter or if you do not have a PS/2 port, get both a USB->PS/2 and an active PS/2 -> USB converter
Don't have 6KRO? Welp, too bad. You're gonna have to buy a new keyboard if you want NKRO.
Go for the hardest difficulty you can play smoothlyKanade4Life wrote:
I'm also trying to move on from 4k play with 5k or7k mayberight now
should I start with an easy or normal diff or just go for the insane one ??
[Shiroyasha] wrote:
Go for the hardest difficulty you can play smoothlyKanade4Life wrote:
I'm also trying to move on from 4k play with 5k or7k mayberight now
should I start with an easy or normal diff or just go for the insane one ??
^^^^^^^^^^LongGone wrote:
The alternate solution for the USB 6key maximum blockage thing
use two USB keyboards