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personally, for me, religion is a significant part of my life. i am not a regular attender to religious services nor am i particularly pious or devout, but i was raised by parents whom were struggling to escape from the clutches of the jehovahs witnesses and as such, had a very 'neutral' aspect of Christianity taught to me from a very early age. i was taught the core teachings, jesus died for our sins, so on, so forth, with none of the secular associational stuff such as the trinity or any other debated aspects. my father simply sat me down and told me how he saw and felt the world, and how his faith was a massive part of that. my father is very scientifically oriented - his faith has never once interrupted that. he once worked as an industrial chemist and still kindles a deep love for science and chemistry in general despite not being able to work in it anymore due to health issues. i have overarching conversations with him about many different developments in my own field (psychology) and ones I dabble in for shits and giggles.
from all those conversations, and infact, everything i've ever learned, one key aspect stays with me. how immeasurably complex yet startlingly specific almost everything in this planet and perhaps universe is. there are links upon links upon links and then more links where you wouldn't even expect to find links. everything ties itself to everything else in ways that defy belief. the world's systems are so unbelievably convoluted and unspeakably complex to the degree that they self-regulate passively with no intervention required whatsoever.
asking me as an intellectual individual to believe that this all arose from absolutely nothing and is completely a product of chance and iteration is ridiculous - significantly less ridiculous than the idea that another divine or otherwise supernaturally powerful entity created and designed the foundations of the incredibly complex organic systems that underpin our planet and our species' survival in an otherwise toxic and unforgiving universe to our form of life.
believe what you like about religion. i don't really care and the fact that i don't care probably won't matter the tiniest bit to you, and that's great. rail on it for people being stupid and using its bounds as a means to achieve their own means, the same way people argue about governmental structures and how they are often abused for the benefit of the few at the expense of many. rail on it for being a product of opinions and ideals thousands of years old in a world decidedly different and foreign from our current one in every way. rail on it for promoting prejudice, slaughtering kittens and stealing candy from babies because you are too dense to see past group markers like mostly everybody else and are too happy to continue with your kneejerk reaction to everything pertinent religion because you too, like the religious fanatics, are too caught up in their prejudices which seem "internally" correct to sit down and actively contemplate and discuss a matter in depth.
tl;dr - correlation != causation, group affiliation != individual attribution
And about that outdated point: I tend to agree with all organized religions today being outdated. Most of it just consists of people telling other people how to think, and I think that's why a lot of people don't like religion. However, I don't think theism in itself is outdated, it's only natural for humans to stipulate causes of our existence and how everything we know came about. That will never be outdated.
My point is that it's fine to believe what you want as long as you consider other ideas. For all you know you might be ignoring something you'd agree with.
I didn't become such a stubborn Catholic without having read Nietzsche or Dawkins a few times.
I was raised without religion so I never even knew about Christianity until we moved into the good ol' Bible Belt and kids seemed shocked that I didn't know who God was. Gotta say, I don't mind my upbringing. Though I'd rather have been sitting in church on Sundays rather than out in the hot sun weeding the fucking garden/yard/everything.
fuck weeds
Well shit, even more of a reason to be angered about things like religion & homophobia.
My mind wanders in a dark forest,all hail our savior and messiah gurodoll.
However I agree. This thread is very bad.
Also,basically everything comes down to what Hoverlegs mentioned in a sarcastic manner,and no matter what we do that'll always stay the same..
Heh.
The Middle East is about economic control, despite what they say.
C.S. Lewis alluded in Abolition of Man to something called the "Tao" (pronounced dao) or "The Way." He asserted that several cultures around the world, developed similar ethical values despite being mostly isolated from each other in time and space. All of these cultures, Chinese, Greek, Judaic, Celtic, and so on, managed to somewhat agree on something. " Do to others as you would have them do to you" is a very common one. Most, if not all religions have moral/ethical fundamentals such as these.
Of course, some religions have less arguments backing them than others, though at that point it'd be breaking into sects more than religions in the strict sense of the word. For example, the Orthodox Church has less arguments against it compared to the Catholic Church. Still, it mostly comes down to faith, which has to work on the assumption that "my religion = your religion", otherwise there'd be no doubt and therefore no faith. It was one of G.K. Chesterton's main points and personifies it in The Ball and the Cross; your belief is a big leap of faith when it comes down to it, whether you believe there's something out there or not.
*gasp*
I'm not talking about some thieves/swindlers who cheats people everyday. Most of these hardcore religious zealots are ordinary people, some even have jobs in engineering and field of science (my colleagues for example). Here in Australia. Not some middle-age country. It scares me when I cross a bridge or get on an airplane thinking that it could be designed by one of these people.
I basically live in a place that could be my example for you...Balkan,all major military powers pull the strings here.You cant just blindly tell me that it's all about economic control here.It dates back to the Austro-Hungarian empire, and now that the empire is no more,Germany,Britain,U.S.A. and Russia took that place.They are basically playing a big game of chess here.You can't tell me that all the major powers are giving their best to control this peninsula just because of its economic importance,because there is nothing here to prove that point.From that point of view it's not profitable at all.I myself don't know the true reason(only the ones who pull the strings do) why this patch of land they call "Balkans" is cursed,aside from the strategic position in Europe,but it clearly isn't because of its "economic importance".This is basically the simplest example I could've given to you,yet we can't discuss this further because we're just gonna go in circles here...the only thing I want to add is that religion is basically a mere tool that certain people who rule the world use to control the masses with relative ease.It's in the nature of a creature to hate or fear somebody or something just because it can't understand it,and since most of Earth's population consists of intellectually crippled people,you can only expect religion to be used to control them in more ways than just the economic one.
Honestly, I think that you can't say Christianity isn't homophobic. If you only believe the "core beliefs" of the Bible, then that means you're just cherry-picking the parts that make sense, which to me just seems ridiculous. IMO, if you're a "Christian", you should believe all of the Bible since you believe is "God's word". If you don't think it's "God's word", then why do you trust the New Testament?
However, if you have your own beliefs like "I believe there is a deity/deities that created the Universe", then fair enough. As long as religions don't interfere with progress in science, human rights, and anything else, then they're fine.
Wikipedia comes to the rescue, namely a quote from St. Thomas Aquinas, in explaining why this is not cherry picking:
Ah, that is a good argument indeed. Fair enough, then. Also, you can't deny that Christian morals are good, since they're just the same moral foundations that most religions/society has. It's debatable that they actually matter since it's common sense not to do things like that regardless of any belief, but eh- it's still good to have it as an influence on some people if they'll listen to nothing else.
OH SHIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIT HOLY SHIT I DIDN'T EVEN NOTICE.
I'm 100% serious, I didn't actually notice I was publicly expressing my sexuality :c.
Kinda makes you think doesn't it
Jesus = Allah = Haruhi = Kira Yamato
If every religion is just as valid as the next, only a single religion should exist and we'll all go to heaven. Of course it's better that way but we just can't have nice things, can we?
Why do you pledge to put faith in a certain religion instead of an other certain religion? Even if other religions might have questionable amount of truths in them, everything that came from your Bible, Quran or whatever should never be doubted or questioned, since that predicament could be deemed as blasphemy. Their ideals are probably not far from each other and they probably share the same goal, but the way they execute their actions to achieve it are different. And that matters a lot. Comparing religions is okay, but if you start doubting your own, you better think long and hard about what you're going to do next. If you truly have faith in your religion, you should think of it as the greatest, and any thoughts of believing in an other religion should be thrown away. Otherwise just join the one you think is greater or quit religion and rely on SCIENCE
yes, religion sounds really unreasonable
ALSO I DON'T INTO RELIGION I HAVE NO NAMES OF PEOPLE TO DROP
and since homophobia is mentioned in this thread, I don't mind gay people but I have to admit that I think Clawsmash is way too open about his sexuality in his posts, and he should tone his gayness down alot little
I believe you're judged bases on your consciousness, meaning you're not going to be condemned if you have nothing to feel guilt or shame for. Meaning any good Shintoist, atheist, or pagan has as much of a shot of getting in Heaven as a Christian would, assuming said Heaven exists.
There can only be one true religion, but our method of determining that is far too arbitrary to be making claims such as "my religion>your religion". I have my reasons for placing my faith in Christianity, but it's not like I have empirical evidence supporting it. I won't have it even if I were Hindu, Islamic, or Jewish.
It's not blasphemy to question a book of scripture, though; that's something entirely different.
To be frank, Jesus got off really lightly. Crucifixion was a punishment for the pettier criminals, remember.
I wonder if more people would believe it if he had suffered the boats, or the brazen bull?
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IppE wrote:
Religions are all quite silly and pointless.
They're a good source of war, strife and hate.
It's better to believe without any religious shit.
True faith is deep inside the soul. But many people fight for their religion. And if they believe in good God, why do they do evil?
True faith is deep inside the soul. But many people fight for their religion. And if they believe in good God, why do they do evil?
religion is an outdated concept. it was important in older times, because without lies nobody would seek for the truth, but now it's really just an old concept that brings more evil than it brings good things. you could argue that religion brings us important ethics, but ethics are deeply implemented in our culture, so we won't lose them if religion vanishes.
tl;dr
tl;dr
IppE wrote:
Religions are all quite silly and pointless.
People can believe what they like as long as it is not forced upon others, so they can believe in the fairy god mother and i will not care, but as soon as they start shoving that belief on others forcefully thats when i think fuck you.
There's nothing wrong in believing in something supernatural just because it brings you hope/internal peace etc. but if you speak about religions as organisations,mainly the most influential ones like Christianity and Islam,I'd say that there's absolutely no need for them,the only reason why they even exist is to rule the masses,just because 99,9% of Earth's population consists of intellectually deranged people which behave like sheep in a way,so it's pretty much easy to control them with something they couldn't possibly understand.
Gosh I hate my poor vocabulary,can't even properly explain what I wanted to say...oh well...
Gosh I hate my poor vocabulary,can't even properly explain what I wanted to say...oh well...
You forgot money mate.gurodoll wrote:
They're a good source of war, strife and hate.
I don't think religion is inherently bad. People are just retarded for manipulating it and misinterpreting it. There are a lot of really cool religious people who keep it to themselves and are otherwise unbiased. Basically instead of blaming religion, blame the person for using it in a retarded way.
meanwhile: http://www.allout.org/en/actions/georgia
this thread will go very well I assure you my friend
Let's go back to the middle ages when people like those burnt people who weren't by their "standards"... where is this world goingWojjan wrote:
meanwhile: http://www.allout.org/en/actions/georgia
Religion is only partly pointless but I can tolerate it as long as I'm not forced to believe something I deem false in my own personal circumstances. It's only meant to be a belief system, not a way of life. That may be a bit hypocritical coming from me as I have partly adopted the Buddhist life style, but that is personally what I believe; there is no way for me to go against how my mother feels about things unless it is out of hand.
Saṃsāra, my mind it wanders a dark forest.
fuck religion
The thing about religious freedom topics in a place like this is that everyone is going to say the same thing, generally: "religion is okay etc etc, but it shouldn't impose itself on other people etc etc, my mind wanders in a dark forest etc etc"
my mind wanders in a dark forest
Fine, I'll be a little controversial (to play a bit of devil's advocate) and say that religion is NOT okay, even if you keep it to yourself. Basically, unless you have solid evidence for your claims, anything that is not fact should not be believed and furthermore, can be potentially be dangerous. Simply going to church and representing the masses of people that the pope (or any religions leader) has managed to deceive is just continuing the destructive cycle that can lead to homophobia, lies, and manipulation. The number of people that become raised to believe that "fags should burn in hell" will increase if religion continues to grow; religions encourage and practically breed discrimination, and unless religion itself fundamentally changes this will never change.Wojjan wrote:
The thing about religious freedom topics in a place like this is that everyone is going to say the same thing, generally: "religion is okay etc etc, but it shouldn't impose itself on other people etc etc, my mind wanders in a dark forest etc etc"
Wojjan wrote:
The thing about religious freedom topics in a place like this is that everyone is going to say the same thing, generally: "religion is okay etc etc, but it shouldn't impose itself on other people etc etc, my mind wanders in a dark forest etc etc"
Hika wrote:
my mind wanders in a dark forest
<3Aurani wrote:
All our minds wander in a dark forest
so much discussion going on already
Personally, I dislike religion. I can't help but get annoyed over it.
Personally, I dislike religion. I can't help but get annoyed over it.
Religions exists because humans are stupid and need rules they can break to anger other humans to have an excuse to kill them <3
my mind wanders in a dark forest
my mind wanders in a dark forest
you've made me pull out my debate stickmathexpert9981 wrote:
words
Basically, unless you have solid evidence for your claims, anything that is not fact should not be believed and furthermore, can be potentially be dangerous.you do this thousands of time a day every time you look at pictures, even ones of people and things you've seen before and are intimately acquainted with. hundreds of millions of judgements are drawn by your subconscious every day, made with nothing but instinctual earnest. you are a machine that disseminates and coagulates seemingly arbitrary patterns into things that "mean" something - all at the behest of a part of your being that you cannot even control.
Simply going to church and representing the masses of people that the pope (or any religions leader) has managed to deceive is just continuing the destructive cycle that can lead to homophobia, lies, and manipulation.strawman it up, baby. clearly since homophobia has been insinuated with religion in the past, that means that all religions (ESPECIALLY CHRISTIANITY SNARL) are homophobic and thus are bad. first step in critical thinking is really important: correlation is not equal to causation. this will take you far in life - embrace it, and you'll laugh at silly notions like the one you're putting forward instead of being ridiculed by them.
The number of people that become raised to believe that "fags should burn in hell" will increase if religion continues to grow; religions encourage and practically breed discrimination, and unless religion itself fundamentally changes this will never change.imperative assertions with absolutely no basis. do you know what we call things like this? we call them prejudices. blanket assertions about discrimination in large society groups is nothing new and by far nothing specific to religions, even if the ethos of some may ardently encourage it. i invite you to actually sit down and read some literature on human group formation in social environments, and you'll see that a lot of things are the way they are fundamentally because of people, not because of the structures and the grouping they create.
personally, for me, religion is a significant part of my life. i am not a regular attender to religious services nor am i particularly pious or devout, but i was raised by parents whom were struggling to escape from the clutches of the jehovahs witnesses and as such, had a very 'neutral' aspect of Christianity taught to me from a very early age. i was taught the core teachings, jesus died for our sins, so on, so forth, with none of the secular associational stuff such as the trinity or any other debated aspects. my father simply sat me down and told me how he saw and felt the world, and how his faith was a massive part of that. my father is very scientifically oriented - his faith has never once interrupted that. he once worked as an industrial chemist and still kindles a deep love for science and chemistry in general despite not being able to work in it anymore due to health issues. i have overarching conversations with him about many different developments in my own field (psychology) and ones I dabble in for shits and giggles.
from all those conversations, and infact, everything i've ever learned, one key aspect stays with me. how immeasurably complex yet startlingly specific almost everything in this planet and perhaps universe is. there are links upon links upon links and then more links where you wouldn't even expect to find links. everything ties itself to everything else in ways that defy belief. the world's systems are so unbelievably convoluted and unspeakably complex to the degree that they self-regulate passively with no intervention required whatsoever.
asking me as an intellectual individual to believe that this all arose from absolutely nothing and is completely a product of chance and iteration is ridiculous - significantly less ridiculous than the idea that another divine or otherwise supernaturally powerful entity created and designed the foundations of the incredibly complex organic systems that underpin our planet and our species' survival in an otherwise toxic and unforgiving universe to our form of life.
believe what you like about religion. i don't really care and the fact that i don't care probably won't matter the tiniest bit to you, and that's great. rail on it for people being stupid and using its bounds as a means to achieve their own means, the same way people argue about governmental structures and how they are often abused for the benefit of the few at the expense of many. rail on it for being a product of opinions and ideals thousands of years old in a world decidedly different and foreign from our current one in every way. rail on it for promoting prejudice, slaughtering kittens and stealing candy from babies because you are too dense to see past group markers like mostly everybody else and are too happy to continue with your kneejerk reaction to everything pertinent religion because you too, like the religious fanatics, are too caught up in their prejudices which seem "internally" correct to sit down and actively contemplate and discuss a matter in depth.
tl;dr - correlation != causation, group affiliation != individual attribution
I was going to say something but Eph did it better than me
There is worth to be found in the various scriptures / texts, some are quite beautiful and thought provoking. On the other hand, such teachings that directly encourage segregation and discrimination of others really have no place in the present.
I've set up a bank account, just 20% of your income and an eventual relocation to our new church is all that's required for you to find the answers you need, the glimmer of light in the forest, obscured by earthy ignorance.Zarerion wrote:
my mind wanders in a dark forest
fuck anyone saying they're being oppressed. All agnostics, theists, deists, and atheists are hardly minorities. It pisses me off to see people insulting religion like this yet being too scared to come up to their parents, their peers, or whatever and saying it straight out.
Besides, I find that religious ideals are much better than the general populace's ideals, which tend to be bitter and cynical.
And if you link me to the skeptic's annotated Bible, you might as well go read the NET Bible (with notes), which already has every single note covered.
I find it to be a fundamental need, just like practicing arabesques is to the professional artist. While our culture retains certain ethics, it's still lacking things such as trust and love. Read Remembering, by Wendell Berry. It shows how our modern society's crumbled as far as how close people are with each other. As in, everyone's so shut in it's sad as hell.Tanzklaue wrote:
religion is an outdated concept. it was important in older times, because without lies nobody would seek for the truth, but now it's really just an old concept that brings more evil than it brings good things. you could argue that religion brings us important ethics, but ethics are deeply implemented in our culture, so we won't lose them if religion vanishes.
tl;drIppE wrote:
Religions are all quite silly and pointless.
Besides, I find that religious ideals are much better than the general populace's ideals, which tend to be bitter and cynical.
Throw me quotes, do it.gurodoll wrote:
There is worth to be found in the various scriptures / texts, some are quite beautiful and thought provoking. On the other hand, such teachings that directly encourage segregation and discrimination of others really have no place in the present.
And if you link me to the skeptic's annotated Bible, you might as well go read the NET Bible (with notes), which already has every single note covered.
I don't care what religion others believe in as long as they don't intrude my way of life.
There are 2 things I hate the most about religion at the moment:
1) People interrupt an intelligent conversation with non-sense arguments like "earth only existed for a few thousand years," when the conversation wasn't even about religion.
2) Religious group come repeatedly knocking on my door bloody 8am Sunday morning, thinking that they're doing me a favour.
There are 2 things I hate the most about religion at the moment:
1) People interrupt an intelligent conversation with non-sense arguments like "earth only existed for a few thousand years," when the conversation wasn't even about religion.
2) Religious group come repeatedly knocking on my door bloody 8am Sunday morning, thinking that they're doing me a favour.
I was also raised religious, and I still am religious, although I don't affiliate myself with any organized religion. I don't attend church or anything like that and I don't read any of those stupid outdated books, mainly because I don't want other people telling me what god should be and what I should think. Basically I think it's important to free yourself from these silly influences and believe what you want to believe.Ephemeral wrote:
more wordsmathexpert9981 wrote:
words
And about that outdated point: I tend to agree with all organized religions today being outdated. Most of it just consists of people telling other people how to think, and I think that's why a lot of people don't like religion. However, I don't think theism in itself is outdated, it's only natural for humans to stipulate causes of our existence and how everything we know came about. That will never be outdated.
First of all, these aren't silly influences at all; they're all backed by generations of bright minds, from Boethius to C.S. Lewis. In fact, it'd be very close minded of you to ignore them. Many of "those stupid outdated books" make excellent points and even agree on several matters with each other. Several cultures around the world, from the Far East to the Iberian Peninsula have had their intellectuals, all making similar assertions: Socrates, Confucius, Christ, and Laozi among them. While they all disagree on the nature of God or how evil works, their ideas are still worth considering.Kanye West wrote:
word festivalEphemeral wrote:
more words
My point is that it's fine to believe what you want as long as you consider other ideas. For all you know you might be ignoring something you'd agree with.
I didn't become such a stubborn Catholic without having read Nietzsche or Dawkins a few times.
I'm concerned as to how I didn't know anything about this and I live in Georgia.Wojjan wrote:
meanwhile: http://www.allout.org/en/actions/georgia
I was raised without religion so I never even knew about Christianity until we moved into the good ol' Bible Belt and kids seemed shocked that I didn't know who God was. Gotta say, I don't mind my upbringing. Though I'd rather have been sitting in church on Sundays rather than out in the hot sun weeding the fucking garden/yard/everything.
fuck weeds
I didn't even take this into consideration when I first heard it because I thought it was a joke. I didn't even notice a link; thank you for bringing this to my attention, Tode.Cuddlebun wrote:
I'm concerned as to how I didn't know anything about this and I live in Georgia.Wojjan wrote:
meanwhile: http://www.allout.org/en/actions/georgia
Well shit, even more of a reason to be angered about things like religion & homophobia.
*applauds Ephemeral*
Not that it did anything to prevent the steady trickle of troll posts.
I'll just say it. Homophobes are idiots. Young earth creationists are idiots. But they're not representative of Christians in general.
Religion doesn't start wars, people do, usually fighting over economic control of some region.
Religion isn't in opposition to science, it complements it, and must humbly step aside when science contradicts it.
Now carry on trolling and ignore everything I said.
Not that it did anything to prevent the steady trickle of troll posts.
Not as much as I have reason to be angered at these two words being used in the same sentence. Sometimes I have to believe that right wingers are engaged in a perpetual smear campaign against religion.Hika wrote:
religion & homophobia.
I'll just say it. Homophobes are idiots. Young earth creationists are idiots. But they're not representative of Christians in general.
Religion doesn't start wars, people do, usually fighting over economic control of some region.
Religion isn't in opposition to science, it complements it, and must humbly step aside when science contradicts it.
Now carry on trolling and ignore everything I said.
After reading everything,I have to agree with you on that one.Vext wrote:
Oh dear, nothing good can come from this topic.
My mind wanders in a dark forest,all hail our savior and messiah gurodoll.
I disagree; I think this is the chosen thread.Aurani wrote:
After reading everything,I have to agree with you on that one.Vext wrote:
Oh dear, nothing good can come from this topic.
My mind wanders in a dark forest,all hail our savior and messiah gurodoll.
Nah, I thought Datzuke had the best thread of all OT. Nothing can compare.
This is the worst thread I've ever read
my religon > your religion
my religon > your religion
No no, I mean this thread has awakened a primal urge in me to make quality posts rather than sink into depravity by posting a myriad of dancing lolis and shitposts. It has nothing to do with the quality of the thread per se.Hika wrote:
Nah, I thought Datzuke had the best thread of all OT. Nothing can compare.
However I agree. This thread is very bad.
I got the impression from OP that the thread was supposed to be about that thing in Michigan or whatever where they're trying to pass a law that says "you're allowed to bully others as long as it's part of a strong religious or moral belief"
it's as dumb as it sounds
it's as dumb as it sounds
+1 on that one.mm201 wrote:
I'll just say it. Homophobes are idiots.
Well I wish it was only that one..there's far,far more to that than simple "economic control".mm201 wrote:
Religion doesn't start wars, people do, usually fighting over economic control of some region.
Also,basically everything comes down to what Hoverlegs mentioned in a sarcastic manner,and no matter what we do that'll always stay the same..
Hoverlegs wrote:
my religon > your religion
Religion was created with a good cause like preventing rape, murder, theft etc. I think. It was a positive idealistic system created to inspire harmlesss manners. Yet, like many things, this system too were abused by some people and became this mess. You can believe in a creator's existence if you would like. But you can never trust a book that touched by humans. There will be always some manipulation and exploitation. The sense of religion and the mind of overly-religious people is irrefutably unformed/unadvanced. We don't even need to discuss about their freedom.
But man, fuck that shit seriously. Smoke weed erryday instead. Mah mind 's gonna chill in da duck forest non-stop.
Suddenly my mind is a jungler assassin.
But man, fuck that shit seriously. Smoke weed erryday instead. Mah mind 's gonna chill in da duck forest non-stop.
Suddenly my mind is a jungler assassin.
Heh.
Personally, I am all for other people to believe in what they want; Religions help form a certain general morality, where people generally think and act in similar manners. That being said, one could argue that laws do that, just the same, just without the general dissuasion using eternal damnation or not being to reach the afterlife/your second life/a good reincarnation.
I could go either way. I myself don't believe in any one God or religion, but at the same time I don't think there's anything wrong in someone believing in one. Life is a roller-coaster ride, and sometimes people would like the comfort of having something to hold on to. There are people that can take their belief systems a little too seriously, or that practice an extreme view of a religion, but they're really quite a minority.
As Eph said earlier, there are all sorts of crazy things in this universe, and everything is linked together in such a way that for any one person to say "Yes. That's definitely what happened" is quite absurd. Scientists and Theorists make new discoveries and connections every day, and I don't disclaim that, But until someone manages to go back through all the links, following the chain back up to the point where it all began, nobody can definitively declare that this is what happened. And time travel itself would be hard.
I could go either way. I myself don't believe in any one God or religion, but at the same time I don't think there's anything wrong in someone believing in one. Life is a roller-coaster ride, and sometimes people would like the comfort of having something to hold on to. There are people that can take their belief systems a little too seriously, or that practice an extreme view of a religion, but they're really quite a minority.
As Eph said earlier, there are all sorts of crazy things in this universe, and everything is linked together in such a way that for any one person to say "Yes. That's definitely what happened" is quite absurd. Scientists and Theorists make new discoveries and connections every day, and I don't disclaim that, But until someone manages to go back through all the links, following the chain back up to the point where it all began, nobody can definitively declare that this is what happened. And time travel itself would be hard.
You're overgeneralizing, for one thing. For another, hold your tongue; it's not something I can help. It's well within my ability to not oppress, to support, and to treat LGBTs as I would any other human being, but I can't control the tiny ulcer growing in my stomach when they talk to me about their sexual tendencies.mm201 wrote:
I'll just say it. Homophobes are idiots.
Provide examples.Well I wish it was only that one..there's far,far more to that than simple "economic control".mm201 wrote:
Religion doesn't start wars, people do, usually fighting over economic control of some region.
The Middle East is about economic control, despite what they say.
Also,basically everything comes down to what Hoverlegs mentioned in a sarcastic manner,and no matter what we do that'll always stay the same..Nope. Anyone that even bothers studying other religions can tell that each one has some truth to it. And if anyone ever asked why they believe what they do, they'd know that every religion is just about as valid as the next, the only difference being what you place your faith on.Hoverlegs wrote:
my religon > your religion
C.S. Lewis alluded in Abolition of Man to something called the "Tao" (pronounced dao) or "The Way." He asserted that several cultures around the world, developed similar ethical values despite being mostly isolated from each other in time and space. All of these cultures, Chinese, Greek, Judaic, Celtic, and so on, managed to somewhat agree on something. " Do to others as you would have them do to you" is a very common one. Most, if not all religions have moral/ethical fundamentals such as these.
Of course, some religions have less arguments backing them than others, though at that point it'd be breaking into sects more than religions in the strict sense of the word. For example, the Orthodox Church has less arguments against it compared to the Catholic Church. Still, it mostly comes down to faith, which has to work on the assumption that "my religion = your religion", otherwise there'd be no doubt and therefore no faith. It was one of G.K. Chesterton's main points and personifies it in The Ball and the Cross; your belief is a big leap of faith when it comes down to it, whether you believe there's something out there or not.
That's what I think a "good" believer should do with their respective religion too. But guess what? I've brought up that point when challenged by religious people on many occasions, but their answers are always along the line of "if you believe in the wrong god, then it is pointless no matter how many good deeds you do."Aeidxst wrote:
Religion was created with a good cause like preventing rape, murder, theft etc. I think. It was a positive idealistic system created to inspire harmlesss manners.
*gasp*
I'm not talking about some thieves/swindlers who cheats people everyday. Most of these hardcore religious zealots are ordinary people, some even have jobs in engineering and field of science (my colleagues for example). Here in Australia. Not some middle-age country. It scares me when I cross a bridge or get on an airplane thinking that it could be designed by one of these people.
all voices and no ears, this thread
To provide examples?Brian OA wrote:
Well I wish it was only that one..there's far,far more to that than simple "economic control".mm201 wrote:
Religion doesn't start wars, people do, usually fighting over economic control of some region.The Middle East is about economic control, despite what they say.Brian OA wrote:
Provide examples.
I basically live in a place that could be my example for you...Balkan,all major military powers pull the strings here.You cant just blindly tell me that it's all about economic control here.It dates back to the Austro-Hungarian empire, and now that the empire is no more,Germany,Britain,U.S.A. and Russia took that place.They are basically playing a big game of chess here.You can't tell me that all the major powers are giving their best to control this peninsula just because of its economic importance,because there is nothing here to prove that point.From that point of view it's not profitable at all.I myself don't know the true reason(only the ones who pull the strings do) why this patch of land they call "Balkans" is cursed,aside from the strategic position in Europe,but it clearly isn't because of its "economic importance".This is basically the simplest example I could've given to you,yet we can't discuss this further because we're just gonna go in circles here...the only thing I want to add is that religion is basically a mere tool that certain people who rule the world use to control the masses with relative ease.It's in the nature of a creature to hate or fear somebody or something just because it can't understand it,and since most of Earth's population consists of intellectually crippled people,you can only expect religion to be used to control them in more ways than just the economic one.
Ephemeral wrote:
long words
Honestly, I think that you can't say Christianity isn't homophobic. If you only believe the "core beliefs" of the Bible, then that means you're just cherry-picking the parts that make sense, which to me just seems ridiculous. IMO, if you're a "Christian", you should believe all of the Bible since you believe is "God's word". If you don't think it's "God's word", then why do you trust the New Testament?
However, if you have your own beliefs like "I believe there is a deity/deities that created the Universe", then fair enough. As long as religions don't interfere with progress in science, human rights, and anything else, then they're fine.
You've been talking to the wrong people then. Let me be the first Catholic to tell you that your good deeds matter more than what you believe.Oinari-sama wrote:
but their answers are always along the line of "if you believe in the wrong god, then it is pointless no matter how many good deeds you do."
This is a very awkward debate that inevitably centers around Leviticus 18. Most Christian denominations do not consider it binding.DaddyCoolVipper wrote:
Honestly, I think that you can't say Christianity isn't homophobic. If you only believe the "core beliefs" of the Bible, then that means you're just cherry-picking the parts that make sense, which to me just seems ridiculous. IMO, if you're a "Christian", you should believe all of the Bible since you believe is "God's word". If you don't think it's "God's word", then why do you trust the New Testament?
Wikipedia comes to the rescue, namely a quote from St. Thomas Aquinas, in explaining why this is not cherry picking:
SPOILER
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_ ... n_CatholicRoman Catholic theologian Thomas Aquinas explained that there are three types of biblical precepts: moral, ceremonial, and judicial. He holds that moral precepts are permanent, having held even before the Law was given, since they are part of the law of nature;[9] ceremonial precepts, which deal with forms of worshipping God and ritual cleanness; and judicial precepts (such as those in Exodus 21[10]) came into existence only with the Law of Moses,[11] and were only temporary. The ceremonial commands were "ordained to the Divine worship for that particular time and to the foreshadowing of Christ".[12] Accordingly, upon the coming of Christ they ceased to bind,[13] and to observe them now would, Aquinas thought, be equivalent to declaring falsely that Christ has not yet come, for Christians a mortal sin.[14]
[...]
Unlike the ceremonial and judicial precepts, moral commands continue to bind, and are summed up in the Ten Commandments.
[...]
Unlike the ceremonial and judicial precepts, moral commands continue to bind, and are summed up in the Ten Commandments.
it's useless for you to have an attitude like that. i don't care what a person worships or believe, they are people regardless and should be treated with the same respect and decorum as everybody else.Apex wrote:
It's useless for a Christian(I, that is.) to talk to an Atheist.
I was a Christian, but my extremist surroundings in high school made me lose faith.
#1 cause of it, and for good reason. extremism twists the Christian ethos into something inexorably foreign and exclusive to what it actually is.. it's actually really terrifying.Mr Color wrote:
I was a Christian, but my extremist surroundings in high school made me lose faith.
Let's all give up our religions and join the one and true Church of Euthanasia
No but really,I think that there is nothing more to discuss about...we're starting to go in circles now.
No but really,I think that there is nothing more to discuss about...we're starting to go in circles now.
This is a very poorly thought out statement. First off, there is a reason the bible is written by four people and then some. The bible isn't a sort of etiquette guide to heaven, it's a series of stories about a saint who, in comparison to other people, didn't treat everyone like shit, and the book was written with the idea of passing it on, so more people would live like this. It is much more comparable to the Torah than the Qur'an. Even today rabbis AND priests interpret the bible personally, and tell people the SENTIMENT behind the words. Nobody wrote that one womb passage thinking "so don't go committing abortion in a few thousand years, mkay?"DaddyCoolVipper wrote:
Honestly, I think that you can't say Christianity isn't homophobic. If you only believe the "core beliefs" of the Bible, then that means you're just cherry-picking the parts that make sense, which to me just seems ridiculous. IMO, if you're a "Christian", you should believe all of the Bible since you believe is "God's word". If you don't think it's "God's word", then why do you trust the New Testament?
WATCH OUT with religious beliefs of Aquinas. He was the biggest eclectic up to then in religion and philosophy, comparing the bible and Aristotle as if they were on the same level, and picking out parts for himself to follow from either. He himself got quite a bit of slag writing the Summa Theologica exactly because it wasn't much in line with religion up to then.mm201 wrote:
Wikipedia comes to the rescue, namely a quote from St. Thomas Aquinas, in explaining why this is not cherry picking:
This is the second worst thread after the conspiracy thread I've ever seen
mm201 wrote:
This is a very awkward debate that inevitably centers around Leviticus 18. Most Christian denominations do not consider it binding.
Wikipedia comes to the rescue, namely a quote from St. Thomas Aquinas, in explaining why this is not cherry picking:SPOILERhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_ ... n_CatholicRoman Catholic theologian Thomas Aquinas explained that there are three types of biblical precepts: moral, ceremonial, and judicial. He holds that moral precepts are permanent, having held even before the Law was given, since they are part of the law of nature;[9] ceremonial precepts, which deal with forms of worshipping God and ritual cleanness; and judicial precepts (such as those in Exodus 21[10]) came into existence only with the Law of Moses,[11] and were only temporary. The ceremonial commands were "ordained to the Divine worship for that particular time and to the foreshadowing of Christ".[12] Accordingly, upon the coming of Christ they ceased to bind,[13] and to observe them now would, Aquinas thought, be equivalent to declaring falsely that Christ has not yet come, for Christians a mortal sin.[14]
[...]
Unlike the ceremonial and judicial precepts, moral commands continue to bind, and are summed up in the Ten Commandments.
Ah, that is a good argument indeed. Fair enough, then. Also, you can't deny that Christian morals are good, since they're just the same moral foundations that most religions/society has. It's debatable that they actually matter since it's common sense not to do things like that regardless of any belief, but eh- it's still good to have it as an influence on some people if they'll listen to nothing else.
My argument was based around taking the Bible as the direct word of the omnipotent, omnipresent and omniscient God. My issue with this view is that because God himself didn't write the Bible, the words could've easily been changed by the multiple writers to fit whatever agenda they have. That's more of a personal reason not to be Christian than anything, though. Thankfully the idea of separating the Bible's ideas solves the issue by meaning that not all of it has to be permanent. While Aquinas may not be the best source of information, that idea works perfectly well, I think.Wojjan wrote:
This is a very poorly thought out statement. First off, there is a reason the bible is written by four people and then some. The bible isn't a sort of etiquette guide to heaven, it's a series of stories about a saint who, in comparison to other people, didn't treat everyone like shit, and the book was written with the idea of passing it on, so more people would live like this. It is much more comparable to the Torah than the Qur'an. Even today rabbis AND priests interpret the bible personally, and tell people the SENTIMENT behind the words. Nobody wrote that one womb passage thinking "so don't go committing abortion in a few thousand years, mkay?"
IppE
What are you implying? Can't I tell the world how deluded my views on threads are?IppE wrote:
Well clearly, since people are actually having conversations.kriers wrote:
This is the second worst thread after the conspiracy thread I've ever seen
Jesus Christ how horrifying.
buh buh
in many cases, religion compromises human happiness and subverts reality to uphold some arbitrary moral code which has no logical basis. Instead of a dialectic existing between reality and observing what's good for people and society and moral ideas, everything is very one-sided; we venture into the realm of the hypothetical immediately and apply this idea to society, whether or not it's actually a viable one. Even when people do decide to draw from reality, they come up with things like natural law, which only serves to more-or-less cripple the desires of certain individuals - referring to homosexuality again, an act which actually has no effect on the 60 year old clergyman who is prohibiting it, but for some reason is under his jurisdiction anyway - on the basis of some naturalistic fallacy that says just because something is, it ought.
there is no reason to deny the claim that we might have a sensus divinitatis (Calvin) and therefore that we need some religious opiate for whatever reason... to provide us some driftwood to cling to in hard times, or to give us some framework for life in general... but when that framework starts impeding the happiness of individuals who are entirely unconnected to us and have done nothing to deserve this breach of their rights, i think religion has gone too far. But then again, anything that brings individuals together into groups leads to a divide in society and hence sets the pedestal for discrimination. I'm not going to open discussion on the subject of human nature, but i think that might have something to do with it.
in short, i think that there is no reason to abolish religion altogether, but in an ideal world - at least for me - people would uphold religion on an individual basis, and not subvert the beliefs of others even though their opinion on the subject is of more-or-less equal value. This is my idea of religious freedom. How can it be done? I don't know, to be honest. As long as tradition remains, people will subconsciously adopt the beliefs of their heritage and remain close-minded to other approaches... even here though, I can't generalize. I was raised in a catholic household in a country that holds religion and superstition extremely close to heart, but I'd like to see myself as at least a bit more liberal, so it isn't that people can't become aware and change... ugh it's a hard question
/my rant i havent actually read the thread so sorry is something has been said already
in many cases, religion compromises human happiness and subverts reality to uphold some arbitrary moral code which has no logical basis. Instead of a dialectic existing between reality and observing what's good for people and society and moral ideas, everything is very one-sided; we venture into the realm of the hypothetical immediately and apply this idea to society, whether or not it's actually a viable one. Even when people do decide to draw from reality, they come up with things like natural law, which only serves to more-or-less cripple the desires of certain individuals - referring to homosexuality again, an act which actually has no effect on the 60 year old clergyman who is prohibiting it, but for some reason is under his jurisdiction anyway - on the basis of some naturalistic fallacy that says just because something is, it ought.
there is no reason to deny the claim that we might have a sensus divinitatis (Calvin) and therefore that we need some religious opiate for whatever reason... to provide us some driftwood to cling to in hard times, or to give us some framework for life in general... but when that framework starts impeding the happiness of individuals who are entirely unconnected to us and have done nothing to deserve this breach of their rights, i think religion has gone too far. But then again, anything that brings individuals together into groups leads to a divide in society and hence sets the pedestal for discrimination. I'm not going to open discussion on the subject of human nature, but i think that might have something to do with it.
in short, i think that there is no reason to abolish religion altogether, but in an ideal world - at least for me - people would uphold religion on an individual basis, and not subvert the beliefs of others even though their opinion on the subject is of more-or-less equal value. This is my idea of religious freedom. How can it be done? I don't know, to be honest. As long as tradition remains, people will subconsciously adopt the beliefs of their heritage and remain close-minded to other approaches... even here though, I can't generalize. I was raised in a catholic household in a country that holds religion and superstition extremely close to heart, but I'd like to see myself as at least a bit more liberal, so it isn't that people can't become aware and change... ugh it's a hard question
/my rant i havent actually read the thread so sorry is something has been said already
READ THE THREAD. A discussion consists of more listening than talking, especially in a public forum.tyrael6192 wrote:
i havent actually read the thread so sorry is something has been said already
Hey, Apex.
Stop speaking.
Stop speaking.
No. You're digging your own grave even more.
I'm not seeking to dispute the opinion of anyone else here, i just wanted to throw my cards on the table.Wojjan wrote:
READ THE THREAD. A discussion consists of more listening than talking, especially in a public forum.tyrael6192 wrote:
i havent actually read the thread so sorry is something has been said already
How do you know about my sexuality... I never told anyone...Apex wrote:
Well, one thing good is that there are no Christian extremists here, or jesus1412's or Clawsmash's accounts would be f-cked up. They're actually homosexual.
Apex wrote:
Your avatar gives it away.jesus1412 wrote:
How do you know about my sexuality... I never told anyone...
OH SHIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIT HOLY SHIT I DIDN'T EVEN NOTICE.
I'm 100% serious, I didn't actually notice I was publicly expressing my sexuality :c.
this actually kind of belongs in general discussion because the topic has diverged from being lol ot shit to being somewhat interesting.. i just don't want it to get shit up by POST WHAT YOU HAD FOR DINNER LAST NIGHT pubbies
Pizza.
That said, I've always thought that religion was a way to explain the unexplainable. Two thousand years ago nobody had any idea how the Earth was created, or what our solar system really looked like. It was convenient to say an entity far greater than mankind did such a task. This does not dismiss the idea that there is a God ruling over the universe though. Maybe there is, it cannot be proved of disproved. Of course, there are things that cannot be explained even when you believe there is a God that has created everything, such as the "how was God created" argument.
Whether you believe in science, religion, or both, there are still going to be questions you cannot answer. I agree with tyrael6192, religion should be practiced however an individual wants, as long as it does not encroach on those who do not wish it to.
One thing I am surprised to have not seen much discussion of in this thread is the morality of pushing religion on children. Most people would say institutions like the Westboro Baptist Church should not be pushing such hateful things upon their youth. Does the same go for the less extremist branches of different religions? Sure, they aren't doing such awful things, but how can it be morally acceptable to push such beliefs on a child who does not understand there are many different ways to look at their world? Even though they can't analyze the depth of religion, if you told a kid you would split a pack of cookies with him and then took all but one for yourself, he would be upset. Is it fair to withhold information about other religions and beliefs or to dismiss them as works of fiction? If there were no cookies in the first place then this problem would never arise.
I don't understand the point you're trying to make here. Firstly, it seems the your last two lines contradict each other. Are you using the tale as a bad example of how friendship should work? Either way, it seems you two are no longer friends since you now refuse to talk to him. There's nothing wrong with a Christian talking to an Atheist. Religion does not define a person.Apex wrote:
There were two friends who were very close.(Imagine Apex and ME9981 as those two friends.)One spends his free time in markets and cities to learn, while the other one spends his freetime in his room reading and thinking to learn. Once when they were reading together, there were a festival, and the floats passed where they were reading. The former went to see what was going on, but before he could, the latter cut the straw mat(kind of function likes a sofa, but lighter and cheaper) they sat in to half, and said :"We are people of diferrent interests, therefore, we shouldn't be friends anymore." Therefore, different people with great different interests or thoughts should be friends.
That said, I've always thought that religion was a way to explain the unexplainable. Two thousand years ago nobody had any idea how the Earth was created, or what our solar system really looked like. It was convenient to say an entity far greater than mankind did such a task. This does not dismiss the idea that there is a God ruling over the universe though. Maybe there is, it cannot be proved of disproved. Of course, there are things that cannot be explained even when you believe there is a God that has created everything, such as the "how was God created" argument.
Whether you believe in science, religion, or both, there are still going to be questions you cannot answer. I agree with tyrael6192, religion should be practiced however an individual wants, as long as it does not encroach on those who do not wish it to.
One thing I am surprised to have not seen much discussion of in this thread is the morality of pushing religion on children. Most people would say institutions like the Westboro Baptist Church should not be pushing such hateful things upon their youth. Does the same go for the less extremist branches of different religions? Sure, they aren't doing such awful things, but how can it be morally acceptable to push such beliefs on a child who does not understand there are many different ways to look at their world? Even though they can't analyze the depth of religion, if you told a kid you would split a pack of cookies with him and then took all but one for yourself, he would be upset. Is it fair to withhold information about other religions and beliefs or to dismiss them as works of fiction? If there were no cookies in the first place then this problem would never arise.
I'm impressed. We're not moving a thread to GD because OT actually provides better discussion.Ephemeral wrote:
this actually kind of belongs in general discussion because the topic has diverged from being lol ot shit to being somewhat interesting.. i just don't want it to get shit up by POST WHAT YOU HAD FOR DINNER LAST NIGHT pubbies
Kinda makes you think doesn't it
Pretty much what I thought while reading all those comments...lolMr Color wrote:
Hey, Apex.
Stop speaking.
that in itself is a leap of faith. Eph never said OT provides better discussion. He said that, in GenD, the thread would get drowned out, suffocated, forgotten because of all the pointless threads in that board.Mr Color wrote:
I'm impressed. We're not moving a thread to GD because OT actually provides better discussion.
Kinda makes you think doesn't it
this is institutional racism
i blame the schools
i blame the schools
So basically what you're saying isBrian OA wrote:
my religion = your religion and words
Jesus = Allah = Haruhi = Kira Yamato
If every religion is just as valid as the next, only a single religion should exist and we'll all go to heaven. Of course it's better that way but we just can't have nice things, can we?
Why do you pledge to put faith in a certain religion instead of an other certain religion? Even if other religions might have questionable amount of truths in them, everything that came from your Bible, Quran or whatever should never be doubted or questioned, since that predicament could be deemed as blasphemy. Their ideals are probably not far from each other and they probably share the same goal, but the way they execute their actions to achieve it are different. And that matters a lot. Comparing religions is okay, but if you start doubting your own, you better think long and hard about what you're going to do next. If you truly have faith in your religion, you should think of it as the greatest, and any thoughts of believing in an other religion should be thrown away. Otherwise just join the one you think is greater or quit religion and rely on SCIENCE
yes, religion sounds really unreasonable
ALSO I DON'T INTO RELIGION I HAVE NO NAMES OF PEOPLE TO DROP
and since homophobia is mentioned in this thread, I don't mind gay people but I have to admit that I think Clawsmash is way too open about his sexuality in his posts, and he should tone his gayness down alot little
That's not how a discussion works. We don't want a pile of cards, we want a deck.tyrael6192 wrote:
I'm not seeking to dispute the opinion of anyone else here, i just wanted to throw my cards on the table.
The thing is,we can't possibly form a deck from this pile of cards...or should I say this mess...Wojjan wrote:
That's not how a discussion works. We don't want a pile of cards, we want a deck.tyrael6192 wrote:
I'm not seeking to dispute the opinion of anyone else here, i just wanted to throw my cards on the table.
You can still try
A single religion would be impossible, given how almost every one is based on some form of divine intervention, such as Christ's birth, death, and resurrection, or some prophet squatting in a cave and communicating with an angel (this would cross out Haruhi and Kira, since their origins are of a different nature). Most of these religions might have similar moral and ethical codes, but they would still disagree on whether there is a heaven at all, on what happens to your soul or whether you even have one, etc. You can't compromise two religions where one says evil is an equal force to good and another that says evil has no power in the face of good. Zoroastrianism and Christianity wouldn't mix in that case.Hoverlegs wrote:
So basically what you're saying isBrian OA wrote:
my religion = your religion and words
Jesus = Allah = Haruhi = Kira Yamato
If every religion is just as valid as the next, only a single religion should exist and we'll all go to heaven. Of course it's better that way but we just can't have nice things, can we?
I believe you're judged bases on your consciousness, meaning you're not going to be condemned if you have nothing to feel guilt or shame for. Meaning any good Shintoist, atheist, or pagan has as much of a shot of getting in Heaven as a Christian would, assuming said Heaven exists.
There can only be one true religion, but our method of determining that is far too arbitrary to be making claims such as "my religion>your religion". I have my reasons for placing my faith in Christianity, but it's not like I have empirical evidence supporting it. I won't have it even if I were Hindu, Islamic, or Jewish.
Why do you pledge to put faith in a certain religion instead of an other certain religion? Even if other religions might have questionable amount of truths in them, everything that came from your Bible, Quran or whatever should never be doubted or questioned, since that predicament could be deemed as blasphemy. Their ideals are probably not far from each other and they probably share the same goal, but the way they execute their actions to achieve it are different. And that matters a lot. Comparing religions is okay, but if you start doubting your own, you better think long and hard about what you're going to do next. If you truly have faith in your religion, you should think of it as the greatest, and any thoughts of believing in an other religion should be thrown away. Otherwise just join the one you think is greater or quit religion and rely on SCIENCEAND YET WE ALL DOUBT. Even Mother Theresa doubted, for Pete's sake. Even Christ doubted when he was suffering the greatest pain any man could bear. Yet we all remember them as saints or the alleged Son of God. Faith wavers and makes you doubt a lot assuming you're not shutting the rest of the world out.
It's not blasphemy to question a book of scripture, though; that's something entirely different.
Well cripe, if you don't know why, then you might as well not say it at all. If they have a reason to contend for it, it has to be profitable in some way, be it through money or power. But if you're just going to throw an ambiguous, unclear example and then say "we can't discuss it because we'd go in circles (as if we don't do that with every topic under the sun)" then don't mention it at all; you're not proving any points with that and providing no grounds to argue with either.Aurani wrote:
so many words
the only thing I want to add is that religion is basically a mere tool that certain people who rule the world use to control the masses with relative ease.It's in the nature of a creature to hate or fear somebody or something just because it can't understand it,and since most of Earth's population consists of intellectually crippled people,you can only expect religion to be used to control them in more ways than just the economic one.A completely baseless statement. To clarify, the tool to control the masses isn't religion, it's comfort and media. That's the whole point in Brave New World, if you've ever read it. Secondly, you're not being clear; how is being afraid of the unknown and being intellectually crippled somehow relate to being controlled by religion? Thirdly, you're implying that the majority of the population is intellectually crippled--somehow making them subject to being religious. As if ignorance means religion. Yet there are exorbitant amounts of religious intellectuals, famous or not, around the globe, throughout history, and in every book.
Brian OA wrote:
Even Christ doubted when he was suffering the greatest pain any man could bear
To be frank, Jesus got off really lightly. Crucifixion was a punishment for the pettier criminals, remember.
I wonder if more people would believe it if he had suffered the boats, or the brazen bull?
>Implying crucifixion is light.
Relatively speaking, sure. Nonetheless excruciatingly painful and would kill anyone regardless.
Relatively speaking, sure. Nonetheless excruciatingly painful and would kill anyone regardless.
Ok since this got waaay out of hand I'm just gonna keep it short:
1) I would really like to have a debate with you,since I see that you're well informed and have a bright head unlike most people.The reason why I can't is because I can't find the proper words/way to express myself the way I would like to,so essentially I'm in a dead end here...sadly,since I'm really in the mood for a healthy debate.
2) There isn't only 1 tool to control the masses,there are many ways to deceive someone,mainstream religions being one of them.I just believe that there is no need for religious organisations at all,they serve no purpose other than dividing people,causing distrust etc.
3) My mind wanders in a dark forest,all hail our messiah gurodoll.
1) I would really like to have a debate with you,since I see that you're well informed and have a bright head unlike most people.The reason why I can't is because I can't find the proper words/way to express myself the way I would like to,so essentially I'm in a dead end here...sadly,since I'm really in the mood for a healthy debate.
2) There isn't only 1 tool to control the masses,there are many ways to deceive someone,mainstream religions being one of them.I just believe that there is no need for religious organisations at all,they serve no purpose other than dividing people,causing distrust etc.
3) My mind wanders in a dark forest,all hail our messiah gurodoll.
1) Look up Strunken White. It's short and will help immeasurably.
2) Religions don't deceive; you're implying it's a big lie. Unless we're talking about Scientology.
3) Stahp
2) Religions don't deceive; you're implying it's a big lie. Unless we're talking about Scientology.
3) Stahp
Just checked,I think that will be well worth my time.Brian OA wrote:
1) Look up Strunken White. It's short and will help immeasurably.
They don't?As far as I know there was more than 1 occasion where Popes/various other people changed something related with religion to make people "bow" to their will,for the sake of their personal profit(or power,which is related to profit-like you mentioned 2 posts before).I'm not saying that everything is wrong,I'm against organisations and not against the core-believing in something divine.Brian OA wrote:
2) Religions don't deceive; you're implying it's a big lie. Unless we're talking about Scientology.
Are you trying to oppress my religious beliefs? *pulls out a gun*Brian OA wrote:
3) Stahp
you would have to then make the counterargument that everyone else has to tone down the heterosexuality in their posts. You just called that girl "kawaii uguu cute =3="? KILL YOURSELFHoverlegs wrote:
and since homophobia is mentioned in this thread, I don't mind gay people but I have to admit that I think Clawsmash is way too open about his sexuality in his posts, and he should tone his gayness down alot little
the rest of the people arent talking about how they are heterosexual and making extremely heterosexual comments in 50% of their posts