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Make Approach Rate function for user definable option

posted
Total Posts
391

Do you support user-definable AR in ranked play?

Yes
96
50.79%
Yes, with a negative multiplier
40
21.16%
No
53
28.04%
Total votes: 189
Polling ended
This is a feature request. Feature requests can be voted up by supporters.
Current Priority: +2,763
show more
DJKero
231 posts
Here since the beginning
DJKero
+10000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 Priority to this!!

IT MUST BE LIKE THAT, Just name it SPEED and make x0,5 ~ x10,0 in changes of x0,5... Just like most Rhythm/Beatgames...

And available to Osu, Taiko and Catch The Beat, too all the play modes...

AND THIS NEED TO BE COUNTED AS RANKED PLAY...

This is one of Osu's Gameplay Worst errors... Really, you need to make this... and it need to be the default playstyle...

It is pathetic to think, to add this feature and make it Unranked Mode...

IT MUST BE LIKE THIS, AND RANKED...
GladiOol
4,475 posts
Joined August 2008
GladiOol
If this will ever be accepted, I'll leave osu!. Just sayin'~
CPTW
38 posts
Joined October 2010
CPTW

GladiOol wrote:

If this will ever be accepted, I'll leave osu!. Just sayin'~
^ This ^

AR defines the map to me
aston_old
aston_old
it'd make the game more boring and everyone would just set it to 6 or 7 so hard rock and double time seem easier. then you'd also have to change hard rock (as it increases AR), and you'd destroy all rankings.

MIGHT AS WELL GIVE PLAYERS THE CHOICE OF CIRCLE SIZE AND HP DRAIN TOO. DERPDERP.

If you give players the ability to control AR, you're effectively just telling yourself "eff improving, i just want to rank."

Though I seriously doubt this will be approved, I support keeping AR to the mappers, since the mapper should know best since it's a RANKED map, most likely. :)
ziin
2,632 posts
Joined January 2010
ziin

aston wrote:

MIGHT AS WELL GIVE PLAYERS THE CHOICE OF CIRCLE SIZE AND HP DRAIN TOO. DERPDERP.
Except this is a very good idea.

OzzyOzrock wrote:

EasyMod should let you choose the diff settings. That's it.
Luna
2,354 posts
Joined November 2010
Luna
I'd like if it were customizable for maps using the old file format from before the OD/AR split.
Everything after that has a specifically set AR and I'm fine with that, if it's too low and obnoxious to play just downrate the map if you want or play HR. Or just ignore the map, that's what I usually do.
bomber34
1,529 posts
Joined February 2011
bomber34
Idk if i am the only one ... but i think the AR should be like the mapper want it.
Some maps would be soooo easy with lower AR.But I think challenge goes first because I like challenge .
What is the next idea? Customize difficulty?

BUT if this would be an unrankeable mod it would be fine for me :D
Luna
2,354 posts
Joined November 2010
Luna

bomber34 wrote:

Idk if i am the only one ... but i think the AR should be like the mapper want it.
Some maps would be soooo easy with lower AR.But I think challenge goes first because I like challenge .
What is the next idea? Customize difficulty?

BUT if this would be an unrankeable mod it would be fine for me :D
Actually, most people want to INCREASE the AR to make it easier.
On many Insane difficulties, AR7 and lower is a pain to read and play. AR 8/9 are the most common/popular ARs, depending on the speed of the map.
GladiOol
4,475 posts
Joined August 2008
GladiOol
> Increase AR to make map easier.

So, why can't we set circle size for our selfs either then? You just put up the worst argument ever to accept this feature request.
Luna
2,354 posts
Joined November 2010
Luna
That wasn't even supposed to be an argument.
It was just an explanation for bomber who talked about how lowering AR would make maps easier.

If you read my post before that, I only support this feature requests for maps from before the AR/OD split since they technically don't have as much of a specifically specified AR like modern maps do.
CPTW
38 posts
Joined October 2010
CPTW

aston wrote:

If you give players the ability to control AR, you're effectively just telling yourself "eff improving, i just want to rank."
That is it, I find fun in improving at this game(same with all games) even though I'm not good, making this option just means I just wasted 1/2 a year trying to get from ar7 to ar8 then to ar9. What would have been the point in the struggle to improve if this option was around? Where's the fun in that.

Mappers make the map, it's their decision to how the map should be (along with moderators modding it)
ztrot
osu! Alumni
4,378 posts
Joined February 2008
ztrot
this feature request makes me giggle
bomber34
1,529 posts
Joined February 2011
bomber34

Luna wrote:

That wasn't even supposed to be an argument.
It was just an explanation for bomber who talked about how lowering AR would make maps easier.

If you read my post before that, I only support this feature requests for maps from before the AR/OD split since they technically don't have as much of a specifically specified AR like modern maps do.
But I think that everyone has its own "perfect" AR :3 and for me it is harder to play with a high AR.
And this request is fine for me as long as it would be an unrankeable mod.

I agree with the old maps point ^^
mm201
osu! Alumni
4,495 posts
Joined August 2008
mm201
Consider that a skill you need to work on.
bomber34
1,529 posts
Joined February 2011
bomber34

mm201 wrote:

Consider that a skill you need to work on.
:'(
but that is a skill you don't need for the most part :-/ and even if i would be a master with AR 10 i would prefer 6-7
many people can't do a handstand should they work on that?
mm201
osu! Alumni
4,495 posts
Joined August 2008
mm201
And I would prefer if maps used good spacing and didn't overlap everywhere.
You can't always have what you want.
Or you can, by going into the editor and changing it, causing it to become unranked as it ought to.
Ekaru
3,617 posts
Joined July 2008
Ekaru

mm201 wrote:

And I would prefer if maps used good spacing and didn't overlap everywhere.
You can't always have what you want.
Or you can, by going into the editor and changing it, causing it to become unranked as it ought to.
This. bomber, you said you would like this as an unrankable mod, right? Well, there you go! ^_^
bomber34
1,529 posts
Joined February 2011
bomber34

Ekaru wrote:

This. bomber, you said you would like this as an unrankable mod, right? Well, there you go! ^_^
:-D exactly ^^ we don't need this changeable AR request :D just do what Ekaru says :)
Rii_old_1
Rii_old_1
Good when unranked \:D/
ziin
2,632 posts
Joined January 2010
ziin
someone needs to make a program which edits all your osu files to use a user defined AR. That's more likely to happen than an osu!dev doing anything to the game.
stevemin_old
103 posts
Joined April 2011
stevemin_old
Thoroughly Agreeing
Ephemeral
Inland Empire
3,963 posts
Joined April 2009
Ephemeral
i think this might be a good idea, actually.

i know that personally, i enjoy AR7 on most maps in comparison to the common AR8-9 which is used these days, so i find that today's maps are a lot less enjoyable as a consequence, for me at least. i don't give two shits about the scoring though - which everybody else shouldn't either.

i support this being implemented, but only for standard ranked maps, not charted ones. charted maps are supposed to be played competitively and scored as-is, so adding something like this would take an element away from them.
Natteke
6,540 posts
Joined August 2009
Natteke
Increasing AR should decrease the score

because low AR is fucking hard :D:D:D
Sander-Don
1,282 posts
Joined March 2010
Sander-Don

Natteke wrote:

Increasing AR should decrease the score

because low AR is fucking hard :D:D:D
GladiOol
4,475 posts
Joined August 2008
GladiOol
> Decrease Approach Rate
> Add Hard Rock
> ???
> Every map will have hard rock scores from now on.

Why is this 11 pages long. Why do people support this
Whyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy
Sakura
osu! Alumni
7,979 posts
Joined March 2010
Sakura
Just because people support it doesn't mean it will happen
GladiOol
4,475 posts
Joined August 2008
GladiOol

Sakura Hana wrote:

Just because people support it doesn't mean it will happen
Well duh.

I'm just wondering why people support this.
Wishy
2,972 posts
Joined September 2010
Wishy

GladiOol wrote:

> Decrease Approach Rate
> Add Hard Rock
> ???
> Every map will have hard rock scores from now on.

Why is this 11 pages long. Why do people support this
Whyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy
Well actually what's hard about HR is the OD increase and the circle size thing, AR 10 makes things easier for some players.
GladiOol
4,475 posts
Joined August 2008
GladiOol
I just don't get why we shouldn't make Circle Size user definable either then?
AR 10 makes it easier to play, bigger circle size makes it easier to play as well.

As a matter of fact, I don't like spinners that much either. I want spun out to be a ranked mod as well then.
While we're at it, I'm not so good with clicking either. I want Relax mode to be ranked as well, it will make it easier.
Gon
455 posts
Joined November 2010
Gon
AR10 makes things harder for almost everyone else though
GladiOol
4,475 posts
Joined August 2008
GladiOol
...what a horrible reason to implent it XD

''It's too hard! Let's add in an option for us to change the AR so it won't be so hard anymore!''
Isn't AR part of a map's challenge as well?
Gon
455 posts
Joined November 2010
Gon
rofl sorry i wasn't done posting. I never said i was supporting this; AR10 do makes things easier for *some*, but obviously the majority of players can't read it and rarely use it. Hence expect massive HR abuse (which you already mentioned) if stuff like this gets implemented (not gonna happen anyway i believe)
ziin
2,632 posts
Joined January 2010
ziin

GladiOol wrote:

Sakura Hana wrote:

Just because people support it doesn't mean it will happen
Well duh.

I'm just wondering why people support this.
every rhythm game other than technika (inherently impossible to modify AR) and osu! standard lets you change AR or at least speed it up at a user definable rate. I haven't played any of those stupid ps3 or wii games though so IDK about those.
RaneFire
1,181 posts
Joined May 2011
RaneFire
I'm more concerned with a revamp of the easy mod since the only times I feel I need to use it actually makes the map more impossible to play than it already is. Although easier is relative, AR10 is too hard for me, AR10 is easier for long-time players, what do you do?... nothing.

Other than that, user defined AR should neutralize mod score bonuses or give a slight penalty, basically any measure to remove it from high-end competitive play. But this reminds me of an old half-time abuse thread I stumbled across when I started :x Nobody wants to see user defined AR on the top40 I think.

Mixed-feelings on this since I do agree it's part of the map difficulty, for example: http://osu.ppy.sh/b/38423&m=0 even though it's a bad example this was one of the maps I played when I first started because the stream compilation was quite popular amongst my friends.
dNextGen
4,688 posts
Joined May 2010
dNextGen

GladiOol wrote:

Why is this 11 pages long. Why do people support this
Whyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy
i'm wondering myself as well
Mukku
1,434 posts
Joined February 2009
Mukku
I support Gladi.

lol
ztrot
osu! Alumni
4,378 posts
Joined February 2008
ztrot
this is about as retarded is retarded gets can i get a DENIED in here?
IppE
IppE

dNextGen wrote:

GladiOol wrote:

Why is this 11 pages long. Why do people support this
Whyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy
i'm wondering myself as well
I personally would increase AR on anything below AR8
those
3,135 posts
Joined November 2010
those

IppE wrote:

I personally would increase AR on anything below AR8
Woot, Katawa Shoujo.

Anyway, AR should be how the mapper decides. Players shouldn't be able to define it; it takes away from the map.
Wishy
2,972 posts
Joined September 2010
Wishy
Thing is this should be definable by user but osu! never had this feature and since adding this now would fuck up the whole game, no.
ziin
2,632 posts
Joined January 2010
ziin

those wrote:

Woot, Katawa Shoujo.
You just made my day.
Wishy
2,972 posts
Joined September 2010
Wishy
maimed the fuck
Lybydose
osu! Alumni
2,024 posts
Joined January 2009
Lybydose

ziin wrote:

every rhythm game other than technika (inherently impossible to modify AR) and osu! standard lets you change AR or at least speed it up at a user definable rate. I haven't played any of those stupid ps3 or wii games though so IDK about those.
Actually jubeat and REFLEC BEAT don't let you change the AR.

jubeat because slowing it would break the charts. (also note that jubeat note appearance timing is very close to osu! AR10)

Technika doesn't really have approach rate. All the notes for the next 2 measures (or whatever) are always visible. The moving bar doesn't really count since the important thing is the timing between how early the notes appear on the screen vs. when you hit them.

Same with REFLEC BEAT, although some charts have slower moving notes.

Also I'm pretty sure ReRave doesn't have adjustable approach rate either, but there's no good reason for it unlike these other games.

That being said, pretty much every game with scrolling notes lets to customize the scroll speed.
ziin
2,632 posts
Joined January 2010
ziin
REFLEC BEAT is a scrolling game btw, so you can increase the AR there too, but I'm not sure if it's worthwhile, especially since there's not just one line to hit but 2.

rerave just looks horrible in every video i've seen of it.

I forgot about jubeat, but that doesn't even have any sort of variable speed does it? osu does, and mods to change AR (horribly broken mods IMO, which is mainly why I want easy to let you choose the difficulty settings).
mm201
osu! Alumni
4,495 posts
Joined August 2008
mm201

Lybydose wrote:

jubeat because slowing it would break the charts.
This is true of osu! as well for the very same reason.
ztrot
osu! Alumni
4,378 posts
Joined February 2008
ztrot
So can we lock this and chock it up to a big fat no?
mm201
osu! Alumni
4,495 posts
Joined August 2008
mm201
The current plan is to make a customizable Easy mod? The 30% multiplier should keep everyone from using the settings they find easiest on everything.
ztrot
osu! Alumni
4,378 posts
Joined February 2008
ztrot
I guess
ouranhshc
2,338 posts
Joined July 2009
ouranhshc
I honestly this thread died a couple months ago
Autonom
71 posts
Joined June 2010
Autonom
i would say no to this, the AR is part of the beatmap :/
DJNightmare
882 posts
Joined February 2009
DJNightmare
If it happeneds... make sure every approach rate counts the percentage of the score =D
Winshley
osu! Alumni
2,384 posts
Joined May 2011
Winshley
I personally won't see this happening though, unless it is in a form of an Unrankable mod (like Relax, Auto-Pilot, Spun Out, and Auto mods).

On off-topic note, I find myself challenged on playing this beatmap with Easy+HalfTime+Hidden mod, and I successfully SS'd there. I just want the shiny silver SSH rank there. :P
Kei
1,797 posts
Joined May 2010
Kei

Autonom wrote:

i would say no to this, the AR is part of the beatmap :/
^ I agree with this.
palinus
133 posts
Joined December 2009
palinus
Make this a ranked mod and I kill myself :V
kriers
1,963 posts
Joined April 2010
kriers
yeah! can't have this as a ranked modwaitwut is a ranked mod :?
Rii_old_1
Rii_old_1
spunout is a ranked mod
hoLysoup
1,846 posts
Joined September 2009
hoLysoup

Rii wrote:

spunout is a ranked mod
http://osu.ppy.sh/ss/243999
what?
-KeRoRo-
17 posts
Joined December 2011
-KeRoRo-
I don't know if this has been said already but I think something like this would work well. Since approach rates below a certain number just make the map hard to read and no fun to play whatsoever, how about just making the lowest possible approach rate that number (8 I think, idk the specific rates) and only have a couple different rates going up from that. There would only be a couple possible rates, essentially just eschewing the way low ones. This way hard rock still makes it harder like it should and nothing really gets broken except for way old beatmaps that use awful approach rates. I don't know, but I have used hard rock on some maps to make it EASIER because the approach rate was so awful, which is counter-intuitive. Just a thought, but I honestly don't mind the approach rates as they are, especially since 90% of maps use agreeable ones. As a side-note, I don't think that the AR is part of the beatmap because the notes are going to be hit at the same times regardless of the AR. I feel like the AR is just a way to fluctuate difficulty and that's all it is. Saying that the AR is part of the map's style or that it would mess with the map artists' desired way to play it is dumb. *shrug*
Last edited by -KeRoRo- , edited 1 time in total.
Sync
osu! Alumni
1,575 posts
Joined April 2011
Sync
it's not fair to the people who set scores without changing AR

this would have been good if it was here from the start

but it's too late now

it'd just make maps easier since players find high ARs easier than low ARs (well, some/most do)
-KeRoRo-
17 posts
Joined December 2011
-KeRoRo-
yeah, being able to change it as you wish definitely wouldn't work, but I feel like there are ways out there, and I definitely feel like low rates are a problem. I don't thiink ANYONE who plays maps above like 1 star find lower approach rates easier. I get the feeling that 99% of people just find them annoying and ruin the map.
Last edited by -KeRoRo- , edited 1 time in total.
Sync
osu! Alumni
1,575 posts
Joined April 2011
Sync
they aren't really

it's just that it's harder to focus on complicated patterns with an overwhelming amount of objects on the screen for some people (myself including, ar9 maste race)

most ranked maps are fine; some are hard to read because of the low ar, but that doesn't make it a problem

easy mode, however, that's a different story
-KeRoRo-
17 posts
Joined December 2011
-KeRoRo-
yeah I don't think that anything even NEEDS to be done about it, but I like my idea lol
all in all not that big of an issue; I'd rather see the time spent developing touhosu or something than coming up with a solution for this
Windoffs
11 posts
Joined January 2012
Windoffs

ykcarrot wrote:

If player can adjust AR, score should be ignored.
^thats right~

dvorak wrote:

Map is Art?
^yep
gat1toneku
608 posts
Joined May 2010
gat1toneku
if this gets ranked(?) i would set low ar on all maps lol
bwross
265 posts
Joined December 2009
bwross

gat1toneku wrote:

if this gets ranked(?) i would set low ar on all maps lol
Ah, so you're a masochist.
theowest
osu! Alumni
6,891 posts
Joined January 2009
theowest
Now this is what I think,

It should be like an Easy mod, you can change the AR to whatever AR you want EXCEPT any AR higher than the beatmap's AR. If it's AR9 for the beatmap, then you will not be able to change it into AR10.

If you want to use AR8 on an AR9 beatmap, then I think you should get less points. Like an easy mod.

Now there is some old beatmaps with ridiculously low ARs, but you could just use hardrock for them.
I'm thinking it would be unfair for those who cannot use AR10 if higher ARs than the beatmap with for example AR9 should be allowed.
jesse1412
1,457 posts
Joined January 2010
jesse1412


it already is an unranked mod.

Just pick your map, edit it, go to song settings, click the difficulty tab then change the approach rate.
Waryas
Waryas
omg amazing!!!
TheVileOne
osu! Alumni
8,436 posts
Joined March 2010
TheVileOne
I really don't see how this could even work.

1. HardRock/EasyMode affect AR.I think this alone would discount the possibility of an official option to change the AR at will.

2. If it were an unrankable mod, what would the interface be to change the AR? An entirely new interface would have to be designed just for this.

3. This could open up exploits for hackers to change the AR in ranked maps using a third party program that mirrors the interface of the "unranked mod" so that it can be used in a ranked setting.

4. Wouldn't it be annoying if you had to reset the AR you wanted to do every time you turned the mod off? Unless you want to play every song at a particular AR. I would also like to point out that there is currently no way of knowing the exact AR without going into the editor. There's currently no way of knowing whether a particular AR will work well until you play, and unless you turn the mod off, or know exactly how to adjust AR per song/difficulty, playing with the proper AR on a song will be difficult and cumbersome.
rickyboi
839 posts
Joined October 2008
rickyboi
I like this idea because of all the rythm games I've played. Osu is the only one that has no adjustments for speed readings.
kaGemi0119
1 post
Joined November 2011
kaGemi0119
それぞれが合うARを選べたら良いなとは思う。
選択出来るようになったら、推奨AR表示があると尚良いかも。
theowest
osu! Alumni
6,891 posts
Joined January 2009
theowest

kaGemi0119 wrote:

それぞれが合うARを選べたら良いなとは思う。
選択出来るようになったら、推奨AR表示があると尚良いかも。
In English.
jabberwockey
396 posts
Joined July 2011
jabberwockey

theowest wrote:

Now this is what I think,

It should be like an Easy mod, you can change the AR to whatever AR you want EXCEPT any AR higher than the beatmap's AR. If it's AR9 for the beatmap, then you will not be able to change it into AR10.

If you want to use AR8 on an AR9 beatmap, then I think you should get less points. Like an easy mod.

Now there is some old beatmaps with ridiculously low ARs, but you could just use hardrock for them.
I'm thinking it would be unfair for those who cannot use AR10 if higher ARs than the beatmap with for example AR9 should be allowed.
I don't really like the idea of this, but I agree with theowest. I can see this happening as a mod. But I still think it's pretty unnecessary for this game.
theowest
osu! Alumni
6,891 posts
Joined January 2009
theowest
I actually changed my mind about a few things.

The AR isn't very skill-based. Every other option is.

Let the players pick whatever AR they want and that's that. Not effecting points.
Skell
3 posts
Joined December 2011
Skell

dvorak wrote:

Since everyone has their own unique best AR for themselves, is there any point to keep AR on mappers side?
Readability Problem? Map is Art? Everyone have their own thought and eye/ability for such kind of game.

I want to know many opinions from mapper/players side :D

-----------------------------------------

表題-アプローチレートをユーザー側で調整できるオプションにしない？

十人十色というように、大体の人は自分に一番いいアプローチレート=AR（わっかが閉じる速度）がありますが
それをMapperサイドに置いておく意味ってなんだろう？
見やすさの問題？ 譜面は芸術かな？　誰でも自分の目や能力にあったARが有るし自分の意見もあるよね。

マッパーとプレイヤー両方からの意見、なるべく多く聞きたいので日本語でもいいので意見があれば書いてください。
もちろん反対意見も求む、というより反対意見の方が大事。

-----------------------------------------
每個人都有自己能夠讀的最適AR,是否該讓mapper握有AR的控制權?
讀譜的問題或是map本身的藝術感問題?每個人都有自己的一套想法吧?

我希望能得到mapper/player們的各方意見

-----------------------------------------

각자 자신에게 알맞는 AR이 따로 존재하기 때문에 꼭 매퍼가 AR을 정하지 않아도 된다고 생각합니다. / 가독성? 맵의 예술성? 이들의 기준은 개개인에 따라 모두 다르다고 생각됩니다. / 매퍼 그리고 플레이어 모두의 입장에서 다양한 의견을 들어보고 싶습니다 :D

(thanks KRZY)

------------------------------------------

หัวเรื่อง : ทำให้ฝ่ายผู้เล่นปรับความเร็วของ วงแหวน AR ได้ดีมั้ย ?
แต่ละท่านก็มีความถนัดไม่ตรงกัน และแต่ละคนก็มีความเร็ว AR ที่ตัวเองถนัด
แต่มัเหตผลอะไรที่ต้องวางระบบตั้งไว้ที่ฝั่งคนทำ MAP อย่างเดียว ?
เพื่อความชอบ ? เพื่อดูเป็นผลงานศิลปะของคนทำ ? แต่ว่าแต่ละคนก็มีความเร็วที่ตัวเองถนัดใช่มั้ยล่ะ ?

(thanks S i R i R u)
GeeNX
1,081 posts
Joined June 2012
GeeNX
+1
VaiL_old
15 posts
Joined June 2012
VaiL_old
i'd say we can increase the AR, yet we can't decrease the AR..
i guess that'd be easier for people who's comfortable with AR 9 :? ;)
Aqo
2,710 posts
Joined April 2010
Aqo

-Sylvette- wrote:

i guess that'd be easier for people who's comfortable with AR 9 :? ;)
*AR10

AR9 is like uuuuggghh pattiieencceeee don't hit that circle yet... not yet.... argh pfft a 100 hit it too early...

AR8 is already masochism
laport
1,240 posts
Joined June 2010
laport

Aqo wrote:

-Sylvette- wrote:

i guess that'd be easier for people who's comfortable with AR 9 :? ;)
*AR10

AR9 is like uuuuggghh pattiieencceeee don't hit that circle yet... not yet.... argh pfft a 100 hit it too early...

AR8 is already masochism
sounds to me like you need more practice in this game, low ar ftw
Tom69_old
Tom69_old
I totally support this, even though there will be one big change:

MANY HR+HD+DT ranks. Really, a lot, on the easier maps though. This would also open a possibility for an even bigger challenge on already hard DT maps.


Another thing which probably doesn't belong here would be adding .5 ARs. There are so many maps where AR9 feels too slow and AR10 feels too fast. Something like 9.5 would be really awesome.
rickyboi
839 posts
Joined October 2008
rickyboi
I'm still wondering if this request will ever be granted.

This is the only request that can make the game more flexible and we'll see a lot of people stop complaining how fast or slow the AR is.

I also want a taste of that AR 9.5 ;_;
winber1
4,519 posts
Joined February 2010
winber1
this is makes fast AR training useless :(
Gundam-Dude
76 posts
Joined July 2009
Gundam-Dude
I could see this working if definable AR were only allowed if you're playing the map normally without any mods. Slapping any scoring mods on top would then otherwise disable the definable AR feature to keep scoring more fair and balanced on the rankings I suppose.
RageTH
1,543 posts
Joined October 2009
RageTH
...What? Seriously?
Won't this make the game easier?
Leave the difficulty as it is, no need for this.
Zare
1,512 posts
Joined March 2012
Zare
I'm totally against this.

The AR is something the mapper chooses to fit the song and the map. It's a part of how the mapper wants his map to look like in the end. This is like changing the map itself.
Also, since there are players who can't read AR below AR8 because they got used to high AR already, and players who can't read AR10 because they didn't practice enough yet, this would make some maps far easier for some people.
I would consider this cheating, actually. You can't change the Drain or the OD either, can you?
Aqo
2,710 posts
Joined April 2010
Aqo
How about this: give it a score-reducing effect.
i.e. users have an option every time they play a map, to either:
1. Play it with mapper's AR, and score on it normally
2. Pick their own AR, and then score is reduced to 50% similar to EasyMod, except without an effect on circle size etc, and with letting you pick /any/ AR you want.

Also, it would be nice if there was a bigger range indeed. Instead of just 0-10 with 1x increments, 0-11 with 0.33x increments, so that you can pick 9.3, 9.6, 10, 10.3, 10.6, that would be great. It would be a fun option that people can use similar to EasyMod today without worrying about how this affects ranking. Sure, you'd be able to top-score with an AR of your choice, but lets be realistic it's not that hard to read mapper-default AR and a 50% reduction won't make this mode a popular scoring method; thus I'll be just an option for fun. I'd suggest making it unranked but since the current stance is against unranked plays, ranked with reduced score seems like the best compromise... or to put it shortly, it's win-win. You can play with whatever AR you want if you just play for fun, or you have to accept the mapper AR as part of the map difficulty when you're playing for score.

This is reasonable isn't it?
bomber34
1,529 posts
Joined February 2011
bomber34

Aqo wrote:

How about this: give it a score-reducing effect.
i.e. users have an option every time they play a map, to either:
1. Play it with mapper's AR, and score on it normally
2. Pick their own AR, and then score is reduced to 50% similar to EasyMod, except without an effect on circle size etc, and with letting you pick /any/ AR you want.

Also, it would be nice if there was a bigger range indeed. Instead of just 0-10 with 1x increments, 0-11 with 0.33x increments, so that you can pick 9.3, 9.6, 10, 10.3, 10.6, that would be great. It would be a fun option that people can use similar to EasyMod today without worrying about how this affects ranking. Sure, you'd be able to top-score with an AR of your choice, but lets be realistic it's not that hard to read mapper-default AR and a 50% reduction won't make this mode a popular scoring method; thus I'll be just an option for fun. I'd suggest making it unranked but since the current stance is against unranked plays, ranked with reduced score seems like the best compromise... or to put it shortly, it's win-win. You can play with whatever AR you want if you just play for fun, or you have to accept the mapper AR as part of the map difficulty when you're playing for score.

This is reasonable isn't it?
If we have a score reducing affect it would totally have my support :D
Makar
osu! Alumni
2,258 posts
Joined February 2011
Makar

Aqo wrote:

How about this: give it a score-reducing effect.
i.e. users have an option every time they play a map, to either:
1. Play it with mapper's AR, and score on it normally
2. Pick their own AR, and then score is reduced to 50% similar to EasyMod, except without an effect on circle size etc, and with letting you pick /any/ AR you want.

Also, it would be nice if there was a bigger range indeed. Instead of just 0-10 with 1x increments, 0-11 with 0.33x increments, so that you can pick 9.3, 9.6, 10, 10.3, 10.6, that would be great. It would be a fun option that people can use similar to EasyMod today without worrying about how this affects ranking. Sure, you'd be able to top-score with an AR of your choice, but lets be realistic it's not that hard to read mapper-default AR and a 50% reduction won't make this mode a popular scoring method; thus I'll be just an option for fun. I'd suggest making it unranked but since the current stance is against unranked plays, ranked with reduced score seems like the best compromise... or to put it shortly, it's win-win. You can play with whatever AR you want if you just play for fun, or you have to accept the mapper AR as part of the map difficulty when you're playing for score.

This is reasonable isn't it?
Oooor Just make Easy mod give you the option to set difficulty settings. This has been suggested before and I wish it would get more attention.

On Topic: If it reduces score, sure.
theowest
osu! Alumni
6,891 posts
Joined January 2009
theowest
No, what.

Some people find higher ARs easier than slower, and vice versa. ARs are completely subjective and should therefore be definable as an option by you.
Higher ARs does not make it harder or easier for everyone. It's up to the player.
bomber34
1,529 posts
Joined February 2011
bomber34
if a player has problems with AR6 but not with 10 then it should reduce scores anyway :P Anything that makes it easier for players should reduce scores ^^
Yes let's make easy mod let you choose the AR :D
Aqo
2,710 posts
Joined April 2010
Aqo

theowest wrote:

No, what.

Some people find higher ARs easier than slower, and vice versa. ARs are completely subjective and should therefore be definable as an option by you.
Higher ARs does not make it harder or easier for everyone. It's up to the player.
ARs have this magical thing about them

If you can read two levels of AR, the higher one will ALWAYS be easier for you regardless of whatever speed the map is.
If you can't read a certain level of AR, then it will obviously be harder for you than ARs below it that you can read.

So to put it shortly, higher ARs are generally /easier/ than lower ARs, but they have a minimum training requirement to play with and thus unavailable for some players.

Long story short: AR *is* related to map difficulty. This is not subjective. Lower AR always makes a map harder, but a higher AR will be harder than a lower AR if you can't read it at all. It's not a gray area, it's just different for each person based on their abilities at a point of time.
The point is... being able to change the AR of a map *does* change the difficulty of the map. That's why it would be unfair if this didn't affect score.
theowest
osu! Alumni
6,891 posts
Joined January 2009
theowest
Nope.

It's a matter of changing the AR to the player who can play it the best. Let's say a beatmapper picks one AR and one AR only. That means only a few people will think this AR is perfect while everyone else has to suffer.

Now, if everyone could change their AR to their own liking, everything would be fair and square.

The OD makes the beatmap harder/easier. AR does not.
Makar
osu! Alumni
2,258 posts
Joined February 2011
Makar
You are adjusting something in the map to make it easier for you; therefore, it should reduce score as a difficulty reducing mod should.

You are wrong if you say AR doesn't affect the difficulty of maps: that's the whole point of this feature request
theowest
osu! Alumni
6,891 posts
Joined January 2009
theowest
If it were going to affect the difficulty of maps, it would effect the difficulty for everyone. In this case, it doesn't.

It's subjective.
Makar
osu! Alumni
2,258 posts
Joined February 2011
Makar

theowest wrote:

If it were going to affect the difficulty of maps, it would effect the difficulty for everyone. In this case, it doesn't.

It's subjective.
What are you saying?

For some people, Halftime is harder to play as accurately because of BPM. It doesn't reduce difficulty for everybody, yet it is still a option to people who find normal BPM too hard and it reduces Difficulty. It's impossible to satisfy everybody, and theoretical difficulty reductions that don't apply to everybody will always exist as a difficulty reducing mod, so your point isn't really valid.
Aqo
2,710 posts
Joined April 2010
Aqo

theowest wrote:

If it were going to affect the difficulty of maps, it would effect the difficulty for everyone. In this case, it doesn't.

It's subjective.
No you kinda miss the point again.

The AR that a mapper chooses for a map is part of that map's difficulty. This is for /everyone/ who plays that map. If some people have an easier time with that AR it means they're more comfortable with it, which is on the same level of a streaming player being more comfortable in a stream map compared to a jump player, it doesn't change the fact that it's a difficulty everybody has to deal with and yet some people would be better or worse than others on it.

Changing the AR changes the difficulty of the map. Thus it should change score.
bwross
265 posts
Joined December 2009
bwross

Aqo wrote:

Long story short: AR *is* related to map difficulty. This is not subjective. Lower AR always makes a map harder, but a higher AR will be harder than a lower AR if you can't read it at all. It's not a gray area, it's just different for each person based on their abilities at a point of time.
Actually, that's the definition of subjective... different for each person, as opposed to objective, which would be universally the same for everyone.

But other than that, I agree with you... higher ARs are easier until they cross a subjective level. Although, I've found that the level might be lower than what you can technically read... too high AR can cross the point where a map loses most of it's read ahead... which can change things into a different game, a sort of twitchy whack-a-mole (which is easy if like and practice that, but it's a different skill set than if you're used to read ahead... so it's subjective). It can also make a map feel too jumpy, with distracting high energy approach circles on a comparatively mellow song, this can result in HD making things easier.

The thing isn't so much that AR can be a subjective factor for difficulty. Being able to change the AR means that songs can be made easier, for whatever value is appropriate subjectively, on a per user basis. That's why a score penalty might be appropriate.
rickyboi
839 posts
Joined October 2008
rickyboi
I'm supporting Theowests's opinion on this.

This game is more on Accuracy and Aim NOT on how fast or slow you can read the notes.

and about HR being easier when AR is lowered down- Seriously? It's still hard to get aim and get a better accuracy even with lower AR. It still fucking increases the OD , makes the cirlces smaller and adds more drain to the life. You're just limiting the players who could/should play HR which doesn't even make sense on a rythm game. There's a reason why most of Korean/Japanese Rythm games have control of the speed reading, it's because the creators want to maximize every player's potential on how they play it either be fast or slow in the end it still depends who's the most accurate player.
HakuNoKaemi
3,828 posts
Joined October 2009
HakuNoKaemi

Aqo wrote:

theowest wrote:

If it were going to affect the difficulty of maps, it would effect the difficulty for everyone. In this case, it doesn't.

It's subjective.
No you kinda miss the point again.

The AR that a mapper chooses for a map is part of that map's difficulty. This is for /everyone/ who plays that map. If some people have an easier time with that AR it means they're more comfortable with it, which is on the same level of a streaming player being more comfortable in a stream map compared to a jump player, it doesn't change the fact that it's a difficulty everybody has to deal with and yet some people would be better or worse than others on it.

Changing the AR changes the difficulty of the map. Thus it should change score.
the problem is how.
Cause someone have easier time with higher AR, someone have easier time with lower AR.

Maybe just do something similar to how I seen in Beats ( Speed multiplier.... )... like an AR multiplier, but make it "max" from 0.75x to 1.25x with jumps of 0.05x (0.75x,0.80x,0.85x and so). Maybe -0.5 to +0.5 (not a multiplier, a sum) is another idea
Last edited by HakuNoKaemi , edited 1 time in total.
winber1
4,519 posts
Joined February 2010
winber1

rickyboi wrote:

I'm supporting Theowests's opinion on this.

This game is more on Accuracy and Aim NOT on how fast or slow you can read the notes.

and about HR being easier when AR is lowered down- Seriously? It's still hard to get aim and get a better accuracy even with lower AR. It still fucking increases the OD , makes the cirlces smaller and adds more drain to the life. You're just limiting the players who could/should play HR which doesn't even make sense on a rythm game. There's a reason why most of Korean/Japanese Rythm games have control of the speed reading, it's because the creators want to maximize every player's potential on how they play it either be fast or slow in the end it still depends who's the most accurate player.
Trying to the read true AR 11 with OD 10 is a shit ton harder than reading AR 9 with OD 10. Even just doing AR 10 is a decent amount harder than AR 9 and OD 10. It's just training your reaction, and it's like learning to play a certain type of pattern. For example, having sixteenth note kick sliders (that can be played like 1/2 tick notes or eight notes) can be hard to read for some people at first, but after time, you get the reaction time to understand what type of pattern it is faster and are able to adjust accordingly. Same with AR. AR is a skill, and imo it is very different from how fast those blocks/arrows/whatever move in different rhythm games.

AR imo is something kinda special and unique to osu! which I like (not because I can somewhat read the faster AR's), but I remember clearly that even when I couldn't even read AR 10 and barely AR 9.5, which was around the time this thread was made, I still completely disagreed with this.

Furthermore, this completely messes up every single possible DT/HR score out there if implemented.

Also it just feels like we are trying to progress to the norm. AR is an interesting twist on most things and keeping it that way would add more to osu! as a game imo.
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