Sorry but I looked at http://osu.ppy.sh/s/55626 when I check the first page of pending randomly without being requested. This is your freedom to believe or not. If you don't believe facts there'll be nothing we can do.dkun wrote:
If you're actually arrogant enough to believe this log, then I fear for you.
wmfchris wrote:
Sorry but I looked at http://osu.ppy.sh/s/55626 when I check the first page of pending randomly without being requested. This is your freedom to believe or not. If you don't believe facts there'll be nothing we can do.dkun wrote:
If you're actually arrogant enough to believe this log, then I fear for you.
If you ask for reason that I go there, that is SP.
Err, you mean... when it's only "rankable", help the mapper get things right, right? It's no good if we ignore a map just like that. Either way, I think every map should be treated the same... as in, we should always try our best.Mr Color wrote:
If it's just "rankable", move on to another map, or at least don't bubble/rank it outright. If it's "good", then do your best for the map to be ranked as quickly as possible, following the modding process, of course.
I'm sure most, if not all, XATs are willing to help. The mappers are the ones who don't want to be helped sometimes ("it's my style leave it alone I don't want to change it"), and that stops the ranking process too.Mr Color wrote:
I've always taken for granted that XAT are here to help mappers, and thus are willing to help them, no matter how hard, tedious, or complicated the task is. Am I mistaken when I think that? Are there XAT that don't want to help mappers out there? If so, then they should probably try, methinks.
The one problem I've always seen with this feature proposal though, is that mod posts by most newbie/regular users are... not very helpful, and it's always up to the XAT to get things right.CXu wrote:
Well, maybe differentiate star priority and priority from mods?
Like, the total priority is the same, but it shows somewhere how many are stars and how many are mods:
(23 stars, 5 mods) or (3 stars, 9 mods) <-- write that somewhere so it's atleast visible, and doesn't require us to count stars.
I'm sure this won't happen... the whole point of kudosu stars is that you can do anything you want with them, whether it is for your own maps or other people's. After all, you earned them fair and square. It's a right you've earned to put 500+ stars on a single map if you want, after all, you spend 500 kudosu.HakuNoKaemi wrote:
Limit the maximum Stars giveable by the same user to the same map.
It'll be better if the mapper itself will start spending more for other maps than his, And about 3-4 Star per map should be good, I really hate seeing Star walls, with almost ALL of them gaved by the same people.
Well, yeah, my sentence kind of sucked. I was implying for when a XAT wants to bubble/rank, I should have put more emphasis on "at least don't bubble/rank it outright."Gens wrote:
Err, you mean... when it's only "rankable", help the mapper get things right, right? It's no good if we ignore a map just like that. Either way, I think every map should be treated the same... as in, we should always try our best.
I've addressed this kind of behavior before in the thread, but I might as well repeat my opinion on the matter: if people don't want the help, don't help them. And leave the map unattended and it will unevitably hit the graveyard eventually. Bad behaviors when it comes to maps is unacceptable. Thankfully, this is rare, at least to my knowledge.Gens wrote:
I'm sure most, if not all, XATs are willing to help. The mappers are the ones who don't want to be helped sometimes ("it's my style leave it alone I don't want to change it"), and that stops the ranking process too.
After the remotion of "Free Stars"( the stars that could have been gaved just by posting ), Kudosu Stars became important.Gens wrote:
I'm sure this won't happen... the whole point of kudosu stars is that you can do anything you want with them, whether it is for your own maps or other people's. After all, you earned them fair and square. It's a right you've earned to put 500+ stars on a single map if you want, after all, you spend 500 kudosu.HakuNoKaemi wrote:
Limit the maximum Stars giveable by the same user to the same map.
It'll be better if the mapper itself will start spending more for other maps than his, And about 3-4 Star per map should be good, I really hate seeing Star walls, with almost ALL of them gaved by the same people.
I'm sure most, if not all, XATs are willing to help. The mappers are the ones who don't want to be helped sometimes ("it's my style leave it alone I don't want to change it"), and that stops the ranking process too.It's just bad to point things which only problem is being new. And that's what most mappers will refuse to even listen. It's bad pointing and insisting in things that only you think are bad, really, and that's another thing mappers will refuse.
This is regarding the actual modding process, of course.
Out of curiosity. Can you name them please? Or atleast give us a number.Mithost wrote:
tl;dr for this thread: Many BATs are ignoring the SP system and paying a lot of attention to certain mappers, without concern for the SP system.
I tried and I'm still trying to get my first ranked map, but what I supposed to do when I get a mod with this sentence?Gens wrote:
I'm sure most, if not all, XATs are willing to help. The mappers are the ones who don't want to be helped sometimes ("it's my style leave it alone I don't want to change it"), and that stops the ranking process too.
The one who made mistakes is the one who ranked them. Your maps are good, that is nice, but why "someone" ignore issues when he/she rank it?Andrea wrote:
So yeah, stop poiting fingers out to me and hate, because it's not my fault here.
More or less this, but do check how many mods the map has gotten and not just how high the sp is.Andrea wrote:
The best solution I can think of is to mod by SP, like I already do myself.
Checking bubbled maps from the 1st page only is the best choice probably BATs could do, while MATs should focus on bubbling maps with at least +20 of priority.
I don't think people are doubting this tbh.Andrea wrote:
I always try to help all the mappers here with my best, and my 898 ranked maps as a BAT shows that clearly.
if so many of them have been getting unranked lately, there is a problem. I'd suggest getting mods at a slower rate (that means stop mod4mod, I think that's something XATs shouldn't be doing), and don't shoot any star towards your own maps so that they get high priority slower? If you're willing to do these sacrifices, I'm sure the better part of us will trust you in that you are trying to help.Andrea wrote:
Anyway, regarding my maps, if they got ranked in a short time, it's because they got lot of mods in a really short time and because they always been on top priority on the first page of bubbles, that's why other BATs always came there to check them, even when I didn't asked them.
So yeah, stop poiting fingers out to me and hate, because it's not my fault here.
This means your map has so many things to be improved. It's hard to get what makes your map to be same quality as ranked map in these day.Kurokami wrote:
I tried and I'm still trying to get my first ranked map, but what I supposed to do when I get a mod with this sentence?
"That's all ~ Map still need more work ~" I got this from a MAT, when I asked for a mod. The mod is quite short so I don't even know why this sentence is in the end. I answered to everything and changed everything, oh and I didn't understand one thing but that certain MAT is just ignored it.
In short: What peoples supposed to do, when they got this kind of mods after they asked for it? I'm trying to flow with the current ranking system, but to be honest I'm already tired to ask a MAT to mod my map and be ignored and I think many mappers feel the same out there.
That... makes me want to punch something. If it were me I wouldn't have stopped there; whenever I see a bad map, it's not good enough for me to say "needs more mod", hell, I'll be the one to mod it more until the end. I'm willing to write huge walls of text, so you can learn what's wrong and how to fix it, in a detailed manner. After all, I didn't get on the BAT just to do cheap mods.Kurokami wrote:
I tried and I'm still trying to get my first ranked map, but what I supposed to do when I get a mod with this sentence?Gens wrote:
I'm sure most, if not all, XATs are willing to help. The mappers are the ones who don't want to be helped sometimes ("it's my style leave it alone I don't want to change it"), and that stops the ranking process too.
"That's all ~ Map still need more work ~" I got this from a MAT, when I asked for a mod. The mod is quite short so I don't even know why this sentence is in the end. I answered to everything and changed everything, oh and I didn't understand one thing but that certain MAT is just ignored it.
He wasn't reffering to that (I think). He knows what that sentence means.. I guess he's saying that it's senseless to say "map still need more work" when the MAT only pointed out a couple of things. If the map needs more work, the MAT that modded his map should have written more stuff to help him in improving his map (if he says it needs more work and help..), but he didn't. If the mod is short, why did the MAT pointed out so few things? It doesn't make sense.Frostmourne wrote:
This means your map has so many things to be improved. It's hard to get what makes your map to be same quality as ranked map in these day.Kurokami wrote:
I tried and I'm still trying to get my first ranked map, but what I supposed to do when I get a mod with this sentence?
"That's all ~ Map still need more work ~" I got this from a MAT, when I asked for a mod. The mod is quite short so I don't even know why this sentence is in the end. I answered to everything and changed everything, oh and I didn't understand one thing but that certain MAT is just ignored it.
In short: What peoples supposed to do, when they got this kind of mods after they asked for it? I'm trying to flow with the current ranking system, but to be honest I'm already tired to ask a MAT to mod my map and be ignored and I think many mappers feel the same out there.
If you can pass this wall, you will be able to get bubble in your further maps so easily.
For the solution here : try to improve your map by yourself is the best way when you encounter with this kind of modding.
This is what I wanted to say with that.Kei wrote:
He wasn't reffering to that (I think). He knows what that sentence means.. I guess he's saying that it's senseless to say "map still need more work" when the MAT only pointed out a couple of things. If the map needs more work, the MAT that modded his map should have written more stuff to help him in improving his map (if he says it needs more work and help..), but he didn't. If the mod is short, why did the MAT pointed out so few things? It doesn't make sense.
I'm not a pro mapper to do this after 12 page with mods. Maybe for you it is possible, but not for me. I need advice, I need things to be pointed out. Which will be very useful in my future mapping.Frostmurne wrote:
For the solution here : try to improve your map by yourself is the best way when you encounter with this kind of modding.
I wanted to see this when I asked a MAT to mod my map but the mod is just pointed out a few staff. Which means, at least to me, my map isn't that bad. When I got this, my map is already got 10 pages of mods and it is already much better than the first sh*t version. So my map was improved so much thanks to the modders, and I hoped the same from MAT too, but .... I got almost nothing.Gens wrote:
That... makes me want to punch something. If it were me I wouldn't have stopped there; whenever I see a bad map, it's not good enough for me to say "needs more mod", hell, I'll be the one to mod it more until the end. I'm willing to write huge walls of text, so you can learn what's wrong and how to fix it, in a detailed manner. After all, I didn't get on the BAT just to do cheap mods.
nah, i'm sorry for that Kurokami. I honestly say that for the first map is really really extremely hard to get star mark icon before bubble. I faced the stuff like this from Suzully and wmfchris 8 months ago in My map so. t/65919/start=30Kurokami wrote:
I'm not a pro mapper to do this after 12 page with mods. Maybe for you it is possible, but not for me. I need advice, I need things to be pointed out. Which will be very useful in my future mapping.Frostmourne wrote:
For the solution here : try to improve your map by yourself is the best way when you encounter with this kind of modding.
Frostmourne wrote:
nah, i'm sorry for that Kurokami. I honestly say that for the first map is really really extremely hard to get star mark icon before bubble. I faced the stuff like this from Suzully and wmfchris 8 months ago in My map so. t/65919/start=30
But have to say that my case, Suzully and wmfchris explained clearly that why my map was bad.
Please don't give up.. That is all i want you to do
I know its hard to get the first map ranked and I always knew, but I tried. osu! is lack this song so I mapped it. I recently asked TVO to mod it and he said it is looking good to him even tho its hard to map. I don't want to trow more stars to it, since I'm using them to someone else's map which is deserve it. I'm not the same as the guy who thrown many stars for his own map and after that he ignored almost all mod.Scorpiour wrote:
First rank always the threshold for a new mapper. Do not give up, i can say nearly all mappers had faced to that. Some guys crossed that, more failed. Hopes you won't be one the those failed :>
I don't think pointing fingers to the BAT that speedranked maps the most really is the way to go. Actually, I'm pretty sure many BATs if not all of them have speedranked maps before. I'd rather check if said maps are fun to play, because some speedranks can be deserved. I think we all point fingers at Andrea because we're like "This guy has speedranked his maps for several years now and is still doing it, except they're getting unranked, which is a problem". You'd need to check through every single speedranked map, not just Andrea's. I believe it's just a matter of being more careful when modding, bubbling and whatnot in the XAT. Because we regular users are very unforgiving and are very likely to rage at every little mistake these guys make.Ephemeral wrote:
i might borrow some db time in the next few days and work out a query to determine who in the BAT is responsible for the statistically highest proportion of speedranks vs normal ranks.
i think you'd find the main offenders quite surprising!
I'm a take a guess and say,Ephemeral wrote:
i think you'd find the main offenders quite surprising!
I think the issue is the maps of his that have been speedranked, not the maps that he has speedranked (if any), the number you pointed out is the ammount of maps that Andrea has ranked, not the ammount of ranked maps that he has, also i'm pretty sure about more than half of his maps have been "speedranked", then again, as said before, this is an issue with the BATs that rank them, not with Andrea.Ephemeral wrote:
if andrea has ranked more than 900 maps and has speedranked say 20 or 30 maps
The mapset must have a well-designed spread of difficulties, containing at least an Easy or a Normal difficulty (based on how the map feels): this is so that players of all levels of experience are able to enjoy maps of the songs they love. It's really hard to define how a specific spread could work in a specific song beforehand, but here's a list of things to consider: the difficulties in the mapset must be in a consecutive order and/or with a reasonable gap between them; there should be at least one difficulty around ~2.5/3 star difficulty level; if your mapset has two difficulties, one of them cannot be insane (this basically means that it's highly recommended to have 3 difficulties unless the song itself doesn't allow much variety); if your mapset has three difficulties, one of them should be about ~2.5/3 star difficulty level, and the second should not be Insane; if your map has four or more difficulties, at least two should be something other than Insane.I don't want to pick on andrea or anything, I know many other mappers have broken this too.
Are you having a Steffi Graf?ouranhshc wrote:
I'm a take a guess and say,Ephemeral wrote:
i think you'd find the main offenders quite surprising!
1) Larto, Mash, jar, DC
2) ztrot
3) James
4) DJPop
Main offenders of great mapping, yeah.ouranhshc wrote:
I'm a take a guess and say,Ephemeral wrote:
i think you'd find the main offenders quite surprising!
1) Larto, Mash, jar, DC
I wanted to say this in a way that didn't target anyone. I feel kinda cheated for some reason when a song I like has only 2 difficulties to play, especially when it happens to be a cut version, or it's just not mapped after the 2 minute mark. I'm working on my first serious "I'm going to get this ranked" map and although I was tempted to cut the song at 2 mins, I know that I would feel a lot better getting it ranked with it being the full 3 and a half minutes included, especially when that's the best part of the song. Having only 2 difficulties also makes it hard to progress with as a new player. Trying to do a normal>insane jump without a hard is very... threatening (not sure if I got the right word there...)HakuNoKaemi wrote:
true story.
2-diffs short/tv-size maps are SO half assed.
lolcubes wrote:
This is a thread about speedranking, not 2 diff mapsets. 2 diff mapsets are a choice and are rankable, and in most cases rarely used. Should open a new topic about it if you want to discuss it though.
THIS.HakuNoKaemi wrote:
So having an higher limit( 2 for maps longer than 3 min, 3 for maps shorter than 3 min, 4 for map shorter than 1m and 30s, maybe) could be a good idea to slow up the ranking of half-assed mapsets
No.Marcin wrote:
THIS.HakuNoKaemi wrote:
So having an higher limit( 2 for maps longer than 3 min, 3 for maps shorter than 3 min, 4 for map shorter than 1m and 30s, maybe) could be a good idea to slow up the ranking of half-assed mapsets
If the song is not good for 4 diff then this rule will be broken. In theory this sound good, but when its actually counts this will be useless. This will always depends on the song itself.HakuNoKaemi wrote:
So having an higher limit( 2 for maps longer than 3 min, 3 for maps shorter than 3 min, 4 for map shorter than 1m and 30s, maybe) could be a good idea to slow up the ranking of half-assed mapsets
2 diff is okay. (easy/normal+hard) speaking of standard diffs. But force the mapper to make 2 other when its clear they will not fit there is just stupid.HakuNoKaemi wrote:
Every song is good to map 2 diffs. 2+2 ? (2 osu! + 2 Taiko) for example
HakuNoKaemi wrote:
So having an higher limit( 2 for maps longer than 3 min, 3 for maps shorter than 3 min, 4 for map shorter than 1m and 30s, maybe) could be a good idea to slow up the ranking of half-assed mapsets
19k is nothing. Also, there are tons of approval maps which have 1 or 2 diffs. Quite some really old maps have 2 diffs. So your numbers aren't exactly accurate.Marcin wrote:
I have about 19k maps in library
...
As you can see mapsets with 2 diffs is 1/2 of mapsets with 4 diffs, statment provided by lolcubes is wrong.
Can we stay on topic?lolcubes wrote:
This is a thread about speedranking, not 2 diff mapsets. 2 diff mapsets are a choice and are rankable, and in most cases rarely used. Should open a new topic about it if you want to discuss it though.
I think the problem we found with speedranking is that they are ranked too fast for us to find all of the problems. Once I stop having the busiest week of my life I'll get back into modding (already modded 1 map recently muahaha)MMzz wrote:
If you guys are so worried about said map(s) getting speedranked and then de-ranked because of issues why not mod them yourself?
Not trying to be rude but it's a better solution then complaining about it, putting your input in will lessen the chance of it happening.
What do you do? Go look at recently bubbled maps that have recent submission days. Find something wrong, point it out. If there is nothing wrong then you have no control over it being ranked or not. (Unless you are the BAT ranking it.)
YEAH YEAH, it's bad and no-one cares.Mithost wrote:
speedranking is bad, mmmkk?
Basically this. The sentiment has already been echoed by several people in the thread, so missing that was kind of silly.Mithost wrote:
I think the problem we found with speedranking is that they are ranked too fast for us to find all of the problems. Once I stop having the busiest week of my life I'll get back into modding (already modded 1 map recently muahaha)MMzz wrote:
If you guys are so worried about said map(s) getting speedranked and then de-ranked because of issues why not mod them yourself?
Not trying to be rude but it's a better solution then complaining about it, putting your input in will lessen the chance of it happening.
What do you do? Go look at recently bubbled maps that have recent submission days. Find something wrong, point it out. If there is nothing wrong then you have no control over it being ranked or not. (Unless you are the BAT ranking it.)
fix'd something for you.Lance wrote:
http://osu.ppy.sh/forum/t/101986&start=0
Okay. I understand that the map itself is fine, but getting a speedrank in under 48 hours with only two DIFFS for personal reasons? Since when has the beatmap ranking page been a place to display your personal life? I simply don't understand why it was ranked so quickly. And please don't call me a "heartless hater" for bringing this up. I'm just worried that other mappers might get discouraged by this.
I consider each "diff" as you refer to it as a map in a map set. I think each individual difficulty can be called a map since... well that makes sense. But to each their own.Seph wrote:
DIFFS
Then tell him not to bring personal things in the game and keep it professional? I don't find that hard to do.Sakura wrote:
Off-TopicA diff as most people call it is a map (or beatmap), a collection of multiple difficulties (beatmaps) is a mapset (Beatmap set).
On topic:
Do you have any proof that the "emotional intention" of the mapset was what brought it's "speedrank" up?, fwiw the BAT could have gone "oh cool an Andrea map, let's mod it!" which as i said, i still think the higher SP map should have been modded first, but that's something I would do. If you really want to point fingers, then you better load them with proof that there was bias or anything involved otherwise your arguments hold no water.
The mapset was fine, there were no errors, it was ranked fast? so what, continue on with your life, discussing a map just because it was ranked fast is wasting time you could be spending... i dont know modding someone else's map so you can get it's Sp higher so it gets looked at faster? Use your time in something productive rather than waste it here discussing something that needs no discussion.
Unfair? Maybe, but then again, how much have the other mappers promoted their maps? how high is their SP? are they at least visible on the first or second page of pending?.
If you have time to complain about someone's map getting ranked faster than yours, you have time to mod other people's maps to increase your own map's SP so it gets looked at faster, the difference? on the first one no one wins, on the second one, everyone wins.
Mr Color wrote:
Shut up, Mercurial.
You're bringing nothing to the conversation.
BrokenArrow wrote:
You don't do either.
The problem?Sakura wrote:
Off-TopicA diff as most people call it is a map (or beatmap), a collection of multiple difficulties (beatmaps) is a mapset (Beatmap set).
On topic:
Do you have any proof that the "emotional intention" of the mapset was what brought it's "speedrank" up?, fwiw the BAT could have gone "oh cool an Andrea map, let's mod it!" which as i said, i still think the higher SP map should have been modded first, but that's something I would do. If you really want to point fingers, then you better load them with proof that there was bias or anything involved otherwise your arguments hold no water.
The mapset was fine, there were no errors, it was ranked fast? so what, continue on with your life, discussing a map just because it was ranked fast is wasting time you could be spending... i dont know modding someone else's map so you can get it's Sp higher so it gets looked at faster? Use your time in something productive rather than waste it here discussing something that needs no discussion.
Unfair? Maybe, but then again, how much have the other mappers promoted their maps? how high is their SP? are they at least visible on the first or second page of pending?.
If you have time to complain about someone's map getting ranked faster than yours, you have time to mod other people's maps to increase your own map's SP so it gets looked at faster, the difference? on the first one no one wins, on the second one, everyone wins.
