Sakura wrote:

This PM chatlog is posted with permission of Andrea

21:59:35: <Sakura> however there's something i want to ask you
21:59:52: <Sakura> have you ever put yourself in the shoes of the other mappers?
22:00:39: <Sakura> as in, ask people for mods and mods on your maps, MATs and BATs not coming to your calls, spending months on trying to get it ranked, while in the meantime a BAT gets 5-6 or even 7 maps ranked?
22:01:26: <Andrea> yeah I did... that isn't nice at all I suppose...
22:01:40: <Andrea> I had a 9 months pending map too so I know
22:02:03: <Sakura> now even worst case scenario, imagine that your map has a lot of SP and is on first page, and has been bubbled and on first page for a month or 2
22:02:16: <Sakura> then, that BAT's map gets in first page and gets immediately ranked afterwards
22:02:31: <Andrea> I'd rage badly, of course
22:02:45: <Sakura> well tell you, that's how the whole community feels right now with your maps
22:02:55: <Sakura> but the thing is, that isn't your fault
22:03:05: <Sakura> you just make the map in hopes to get it ranked like everyone else
22:03:33: <Sakura> the thing is that the BATs and MATs themselves go towards your map as soon as it gets there, regardless of the other maps
22:04:55: <Andrea> yeah that's the thing
22:05:04: <Andrea> most of the times I don't even ask for mod
22:05:12: <Andrea> but MATs or BATs comes there and mod it

Now please let's stop pointing fingers and let's start working towards a solution.

Tanzklaue wrote:

Shiro wrote:

This post is full of false assumptions. I suggest you guys don't try to talk about something you know nothing about.

it's not nice to blame everybody here for something I wrote. I posted this, not the rest of the people who discuss this, thus it is my opinion, and only mine, so please, don't say that others didn't behave correctly.

dkun wrote:

If you're actually arrogant enough to believe this log, then I fear for you.

wmfchris wrote:

dkun wrote:

If you're actually arrogant enough to believe this log, then I fear for you.

Sorry but I looked at http://osu.ppy.sh/s/55626 when I check the first page of pending randomly without being requested. This is your freedom to believe or not. If you don't believe facts there'll be nothing we can do.

If you ask for reason that I go there, that is SP.

Mr Color wrote:

If it's just "rankable", move on to another map, or at least don't bubble/rank it outright. If it's "good", then do your best for the map to be ranked as quickly as possible, following the modding process, of course.

Mr Color wrote:

I've always taken for granted that XAT are here to help mappers, and thus are willing to help them, no matter how hard, tedious, or complicated the task is. Am I mistaken when I think that? Are there XAT that don't want to help mappers out there? If so, then they should probably try, methinks.

CXu wrote:

Well, maybe differentiate star priority and priority from mods?
Like, the total priority is the same, but it shows somewhere how many are stars and how many are mods:
(23 stars, 5 mods) or (3 stars, 9 mods) <-- write that somewhere so it's atleast visible, and doesn't require us to count stars.

HakuNoKaemi wrote:

Limit the maximum Stars giveable by the same user to the same map.
It'll be better if the mapper itself will start spending more for other maps than his, And about 3-4 Star per map should be good, I really hate seeing Star walls, with almost ALL of them gaved by the same people.

Gens wrote:

Err, you mean... when it's only "rankable", help the mapper get things right, right? It's no good if we ignore a map just like that. Either way, I think every map should be treated the same... as in, we should always try our best.

Gens wrote:

I'm sure most, if not all, XATs are willing to help. The mappers are the ones who don't want to be helped sometimes ("it's my style leave it alone I don't want to change it"), and that stops the ranking process too.

Gens wrote:

HakuNoKaemi wrote:

Limit the maximum Stars giveable by the same user to the same map.
It'll be better if the mapper itself will start spending more for other maps than his, And about 3-4 Star per map should be good, I really hate seeing Star walls, with almost ALL of them gaved by the same people.

I'm sure this won't happen... the whole point of kudosu stars is that you can do anything you want with them, whether it is for your own maps or other people's. After all, you earned them fair and square. It's a right you've earned to put 500+ stars on a single map if you want, after all, you spend 500 kudosu.

I'm sure most, if not all, XATs are willing to help. The mappers are the ones who don't want to be helped sometimes ("it's my style leave it alone I don't want to change it"), and that stops the ranking process too.
This is regarding the actual modding process, of course.

Mithost wrote:

tl;dr for this thread: Many BATs are ignoring the SP system and paying a lot of attention to certain mappers, without concern for the SP system.

Gens wrote:

I'm sure most, if not all, XATs are willing to help. The mappers are the ones who don't want to be helped sometimes ("it's my style leave it alone I don't want to change it"), and that stops the ranking process too.

Andrea wrote:

So yeah, stop poiting fingers out to me and hate, because it's not my fault here.

Andrea wrote:

The best solution I can think of is to mod by SP, like I already do myself.

Checking bubbled maps from the 1st page only is the best choice probably BATs could do, while MATs should focus on bubbling maps with at least +20 of priority.

Andrea wrote:

I always try to help all the mappers here with my best, and my 898 ranked maps as a BAT shows that clearly.

Andrea wrote:

Anyway, regarding my maps, if they got ranked in a short time, it's because they got lot of mods in a really short time and because they always been on top priority on the first page of bubbles, that's why other BATs always came there to check them, even when I didn't asked them.

So yeah, stop poiting fingers out to me and hate, because it's not my fault here.

Kurokami wrote:

I tried and I'm still trying to get my first ranked map, but what I supposed to do when I get a mod with this sentence?
"That's all ~ Map still need more work ~" I got this from a MAT, when I asked for a mod. The mod is quite short so I don't even know why this sentence is in the end. I answered to everything and changed everything, oh and I didn't understand one thing but that certain MAT is just ignored it.

In short: What peoples supposed to do, when they got this kind of mods after they asked for it? I'm trying to flow with the current ranking system, but to be honest I'm already tired to ask a MAT to mod my map and be ignored and I think many mappers feel the same out there.

Kurokami wrote:

Gens wrote:

I'm sure most, if not all, XATs are willing to help. The mappers are the ones who don't want to be helped sometimes ("it's my style leave it alone I don't want to change it"), and that stops the ranking process too.

I tried and I'm still trying to get my first ranked map, but what I supposed to do when I get a mod with this sentence?
"That's all ~ Map still need more work ~" I got this from a MAT, when I asked for a mod. The mod is quite short so I don't even know why this sentence is in the end. I answered to everything and changed everything, oh and I didn't understand one thing but that certain MAT is just ignored it.

Frostmourne wrote:

Kurokami wrote:

I tried and I'm still trying to get my first ranked map, but what I supposed to do when I get a mod with this sentence?
"That's all ~ Map still need more work ~" I got this from a MAT, when I asked for a mod. The mod is quite short so I don't even know why this sentence is in the end. I answered to everything and changed everything, oh and I didn't understand one thing but that certain MAT is just ignored it.

In short: What peoples supposed to do, when they got this kind of mods after they asked for it? I'm trying to flow with the current ranking system, but to be honest I'm already tired to ask a MAT to mod my map and be ignored and I think many mappers feel the same out there.

This means your map has so many things to be improved. It's hard to get what makes your map to be same quality as ranked map in these day.
If you can pass this wall, you will be able to get bubble in your further maps so easily.

For the solution here : try to improve your map by yourself is the best way when you encounter with this kind of modding.

Kei wrote:

He wasn't reffering to that (I think). He knows what that sentence means.. I guess he's saying that it's senseless to say "map still need more work" when the MAT only pointed out a couple of things. If the map needs more work, the MAT that modded his map should have written more stuff to help him in improving his map (if he says it needs more work and help..), but he didn't. If the mod is short, why did the MAT pointed out so few things? It doesn't make sense.

Frostmurne wrote:

For the solution here : try to improve your map by yourself is the best way when you encounter with this kind of modding.

Gens wrote:

That... makes me want to punch something. If it were me I wouldn't have stopped there; whenever I see a bad map, it's not good enough for me to say "needs more mod", hell, I'll be the one to mod it more until the end. I'm willing to write huge walls of text, so you can learn what's wrong and how to fix it, in a detailed manner. After all, I didn't get on the BAT just to do cheap mods.

Kurokami wrote:

Frostmourne wrote:

For the solution here : try to improve your map by yourself is the best way when you encounter with this kind of modding.

I'm not a pro mapper to do this after 12 page with mods. Maybe for you it is possible, but not for me. I need advice, I need things to be pointed out. Which will be very useful in my future mapping.

Frostmourne wrote:

nah, i'm sorry for that Kurokami. I honestly say that for the first map is really really extremely hard to get star mark icon before bubble. I faced the stuff like this from Suzully and wmfchris 8 months ago in My map so. t/65919/start=30
But have to say that my case, Suzully and wmfchris explained clearly that why my map was bad.

Please don't give up.. That is all i want you to do

Scorpiour wrote:

First rank always the threshold for a new mapper. Do not give up, i can say nearly all mappers had faced to that. Some guys crossed that, more failed. Hopes you won't be one the those failed :>

Ephemeral wrote:

i might borrow some db time in the next few days and work out a query to determine who in the BAT is responsible for the statistically highest proportion of speedranks vs normal ranks.

i think you'd find the main offenders quite surprising!

Ephemeral wrote:

i think you'd find the main offenders quite surprising!

Ephemeral wrote:

if andrea has ranked more than 900 maps and has speedranked say 20 or 30 maps

The mapset must have a well-designed spread of difficulties, containing at least an Easy or a Normal difficulty (based on how the map feels): this is so that players of all levels of experience are able to enjoy maps of the songs they love. It's really hard to define how a specific spread could work in a specific song beforehand, but here's a list of things to consider: the difficulties in the mapset must be in a consecutive order and/or with a reasonable gap between them; there should be at least one difficulty around ~2.5/3 star difficulty level; if your mapset has two difficulties, one of them cannot be insane (this basically means that it's highly recommended to have 3 difficulties unless the song itself doesn't allow much variety); if your mapset has three difficulties, one of them should be about ~2.5/3 star difficulty level, and the second should not be Insane; if your map has four or more difficulties, at least two should be something other than Insane.

ouranhshc wrote:

Ephemeral wrote:

i think you'd find the main offenders quite surprising!

I'm a take a guess and say,

1) Larto, Mash, jar, DC
2) ztrot
3) James
4) DJPop

ouranhshc wrote:

Ephemeral wrote:

i think you'd find the main offenders quite surprising!

I'm a take a guess and say,

1) Larto, Mash, jar, DC

HakuNoKaemi wrote:

true story.
2-diffs short/tv-size maps are SO half assed.

lolcubes wrote:

This is a thread about speedranking, not 2 diff mapsets. 2 diff mapsets are a choice and are rankable, and in most cases rarely used. Should open a new topic about it if you want to discuss it though.

HakuNoKaemi wrote:

So having an higher limit( 2 for maps longer than 3 min, 3 for maps shorter than 3 min, 4 for map shorter than 1m and 30s, maybe) could be a good idea to slow up the ranking of half-assed mapsets

Marcin wrote:

HakuNoKaemi wrote:

So having an higher limit( 2 for maps longer than 3 min, 3 for maps shorter than 3 min, 4 for map shorter than 1m and 30s, maybe) could be a good idea to slow up the ranking of half-assed mapsets

THIS.

HakuNoKaemi wrote:

So having an higher limit( 2 for maps longer than 3 min, 3 for maps shorter than 3 min, 4 for map shorter than 1m and 30s, maybe) could be a good idea to slow up the ranking of half-assed mapsets

HakuNoKaemi wrote:

Every song is good to map 2 diffs. 2+2 ? (2 osu! + 2 Taiko) for example

HakuNoKaemi wrote:

So having an higher limit( 2 for maps longer than 3 min, 3 for maps shorter than 3 min, 4 for map shorter than 1m and 30s, maybe) could be a good idea to slow up the ranking of half-assed mapsets

Marcin wrote:

I have about 19k maps in library
...
As you can see mapsets with 2 diffs is 1/2 of mapsets with 4 diffs, statment provided by lolcubes is wrong.

lolcubes wrote:

This is a thread about speedranking, not 2 diff mapsets. 2 diff mapsets are a choice and are rankable, and in most cases rarely used. Should open a new topic about it if you want to discuss it though.

MMzz wrote:

If you guys are so worried about said map(s) getting speedranked and then de-ranked because of issues why not mod them yourself?
Not trying to be rude but it's a better solution then complaining about it, putting your input in will lessen the chance of it happening.
What do you do? Go look at recently bubbled maps that have recent submission days. Find something wrong, point it out. If there is nothing wrong then you have no control over it being ranked or not. (Unless you are the BAT ranking it.)

Mithost wrote:

speedranking is bad, mmmkk?

Mithost wrote:

MMzz wrote:

If you guys are so worried about said map(s) getting speedranked and then de-ranked because of issues why not mod them yourself?
Not trying to be rude but it's a better solution then complaining about it, putting your input in will lessen the chance of it happening.
What do you do? Go look at recently bubbled maps that have recent submission days. Find something wrong, point it out. If there is nothing wrong then you have no control over it being ranked or not. (Unless you are the BAT ranking it.)

I think the problem we found with speedranking is that they are ranked too fast for us to find all of the problems. Once I stop having the busiest week of my life I'll get back into modding (already modded 1 map recently muahaha)

Lance wrote:

http://osu.ppy.sh/forum/t/101986&start=0

Okay. I understand that the map itself is fine, but getting a speedrank in under 48 hours with only two DIFFS for personal reasons? Since when has the beatmap ranking page been a place to display your personal life? I simply don't understand why it was ranked so quickly. And please don't call me a "heartless hater" for bringing this up. I'm just worried that other mappers might get discouraged by this.

Seph wrote:

DIFFS

Sakura wrote:

Off-Topic

A diff as most people call it is a map (or beatmap), a collection of multiple difficulties (beatmaps) is a mapset (Beatmap set).

On topic:

Do you have any proof that the "emotional intention" of the mapset was what brought it's "speedrank" up?, fwiw the BAT could have gone "oh cool an Andrea map, let's mod it!" which as i said, i still think the higher SP map should have been modded first, but that's something I would do. If you really want to point fingers, then you better load them with proof that there was bias or anything involved otherwise your arguments hold no water.

The mapset was fine, there were no errors, it was ranked fast? so what, continue on with your life, discussing a map just because it was ranked fast is wasting time you could be spending... i dont know modding someone else's map so you can get it's Sp higher so it gets looked at faster? Use your time in something productive rather than waste it here discussing something that needs no discussion.

Unfair? Maybe, but then again, how much have the other mappers promoted their maps? how high is their SP? are they at least visible on the first or second page of pending?.

If you have time to complain about someone's map getting ranked faster than yours, you have time to mod other people's maps to increase your own map's SP so it gets looked at faster, the difference? on the first one no one wins, on the second one, everyone wins.

Mr Color wrote:

Shut up, Mercurial.

You're bringing nothing to the conversation.

BrokenArrow's Signature wrote:

Fuck has successfully been given.

BrokenArrow wrote:

You don't do either.

Sakura wrote:

Off-Topic

A diff as most people call it is a map (or beatmap), a collection of multiple difficulties (beatmaps) is a mapset (Beatmap set).

On topic:

Do you have any proof that the "emotional intention" of the mapset was what brought it's "speedrank" up?, fwiw the BAT could have gone "oh cool an Andrea map, let's mod it!" which as i said, i still think the higher SP map should have been modded first, but that's something I would do. If you really want to point fingers, then you better load them with proof that there was bias or anything involved otherwise your arguments hold no water.

The mapset was fine, there were no errors, it was ranked fast? so what, continue on with your life, discussing a map just because it was ranked fast is wasting time you could be spending... i dont know modding someone else's map so you can get it's Sp higher so it gets looked at faster? Use your time in something productive rather than waste it here discussing something that needs no discussion.

Unfair? Maybe, but then again, how much have the other mappers promoted their maps? how high is their SP? are they at least visible on the first or second page of pending?.

If you have time to complain about someone's map getting ranked faster than yours, you have time to mod other people's maps to increase your own map's SP so it gets looked at faster, the difference? on the first one no one wins, on the second one, everyone wins.