score so importantChewin wrote:
Peppy..
Simply couldn't you add the "Performance" and keep the "Score" on the top of f9 when it's written "Location/Rank/World Zone"?
I mean:
There are some players (including me) that have farmed score for months.
Meh, this thing about the score should be managed more carefully and not as a "random" thing to add in the game replacing randomly the "score" ranking with "performance" one. What srsly.
I'm sorry if it's OT but I don't want to open a topic for this since I can bet that it will be closed and ignored.
forum
Proposal: new scoring system for mods
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141
I know that it isn't important. But it's just to be correct/right with other players that have farmed score. That's all.fartownik wrote:
score so importantChewin wrote:
Peppy..
Simply couldn't you add the "Performance" and keep the "Score" on the top of f9 when it's written "Location/Rank/World Zone"?
I mean:
There are some players (including me) that have farmed score for months.
Meh, this thing about the score should be managed more carefully and not as a "random" thing to add in the game replacing randomly the "score" ranking with "performance" one. What srsly.
I'm sorry if it's OT but I don't want to open a topic for this since I can bet that it will be closed and ignored.
what makes you think it isnt like that already?darkmiz wrote:
http://osu.ppy.sh/wiki/images/d/d6/Performancepoints.png
pp takes the score rank and accuracy into account, which is affected by mods.
For example http://osu.ppy.sh/s/24325
The FL scores earn more pp than DT scores. If DT score multiplier > FL, this would not happen.
do you have any way to show us that the FL scores actually give more pp than the DT scores?
FL and HD may make the map harder to read but they don't increase the skill requirements at all which is why hr and DT should weigh more in the rankings imo.
I tried to FL a map and I played it for many many hours. The result was that I could FL the 100 first notes.Wishy22 wrote:
Wrong. Any map is possible to FL, if you can FC no mod, then you can FC using Flashlight if you play the map enough times. Like it or not this is true, while getting DT FC on many maps is just IMPOSSIBLE (do you think anyone ever will be able to DT something like Homework Crisis?).
This discussion won't go anywhere though since peppy refuses to give the information required to actually proceed with this. Still FL won't make you a pro, neither will Hidden, we all know who the pros are and /care about FL scores. http://osu.ppy.sh/s/40440 <-- #1 = Niko, http://osu.ppy.sh/s/24325 <-- #1 = Cookiezi, who cares about FL lol.
FL is not that easy
consider the CTB players...
for me, DT and HR are the hardest mods
[DT boosts the BPM while the HR controls the "SV" of falling fruits...]
it's impossible to HR a map with high SV...
T_T
[HR controls the CTB Game...]
for me, DT and HR are the hardest mods
[DT boosts the BPM while the HR controls the "SV" of falling fruits...]
it's impossible to HR a map with high SV...
T_T
[HR controls the CTB Game...]
I know this is an accidental typo, but this is the best multiplier ever.jesse1412 wrote:
HT + Easy + HD + FL * 219
It isn't, Easy is probably the hardest mod ever.
its easier than hr or fl on 90% of the songs for me
try hard rock gold dust then give it a go with easy, see which one you miss more on.silmarilen wrote:
its easier than hr or fl on 90% of the songs for me
Glass
+this:
FL too easy on short maps
DT too easy on low BPM maps
HR is just overall frustrating for the little score it gives
Hidden is easy as ever except on maps with 0 stacking leniency like Haru Haru
also massive facepalm at OP, how do you "farm" FL HD when it takes about 100 plays to get a good score(not counting TVsized bullshit we all know its easy) meanwhile it takes about 4 retries to get a score with DT HD??
because currently:Wishy22 wrote:
DT bonus should be based on base AR, BPM and OD.
HR bonus should be based on base AR, OD and CS.
FL bonus should be base on maximum combo.
Hidden should give a fixed low bonus since it's a mod used with every other mod and doesn't really make much of a difference imo.
FL too easy on short maps
DT too easy on low BPM maps
HR is just overall frustrating for the little score it gives
Hidden is easy as ever except on maps with 0 stacking leniency like Haru Haru
also massive facepalm at OP, how do you "farm" FL HD when it takes about 100 plays to get a good score(not counting TVsized bullshit we all know its easy) meanwhile it takes about 4 retries to get a score with DT HD??
Sounds goodWishy22 wrote:
DT bonus should be based on base AR, BPM and OD.
HR bonus should be based on base AR, OD and CS.
FL bonus should be base on maximum combo.
Hidden should give a fixed low bonus since it's a mod used with every other mod and doesn't really make much of a difference imo.
Some additions from me:
FL scores should be probably based on CS too
Also FL+HD very often is just ALOT harder then FL (you press stuff in the abyss). Probably some other additional multiplying needs to be here
I think people should just stop being cheating douchebags with HD+FL M $w$ ye
haha what the hell xDjesse1412 wrote:
Easy * 2
i play easy mod all the time and get much better scores on maps with it than I could without (see chocobo and pacific rim imitation network). it gives almost no pp and rightfully so
If you're the guy who FC Chocobo on Easy + Hidden then trust me you are skilled enough to be in the top 10.
not at all! I can read any AR, that doesn't make me skilled at actually playing, can't get 200combo on chocobo nomod... i can't play small circles so I use easy modWishy22 wrote:
If you're the guy who FC Chocobo on Easy + Hidden then trust me you are skilled enough to be in the top 10.
We should combine our powers and become one super power that can do the smallest of circles and the fastest of AR's, but also the largest of circles and the slowest AR's. We would be a god.MillhioreF wrote:
not at all! I can read any AR, that doesn't make me skilled at actually playing, can't get 200combo on chocobo nomod... i can't play small circles so I use easy modWishy22 wrote:
If you're the guy who FC Chocobo on Easy + Hidden then trust me you are skilled enough to be in the top 10.
The game needs a new scoring system in general before even thinking about changing the score system for mods.
As in, your score not being determined entirely by max combo.
As in, your score not being determined entirely by max combo.
one could do something silly and literally just multiply your score by your accuracy
score would still be pretty much entirely decided by max comboEphemeral wrote:
one could do something silly and literally just multiply your score by your accuracy
Star difficulty can be probably moved away from calculating score of the map too
Since the amount of score doesn't matter, only how high it is compared to other players in the same map
Since the amount of score doesn't matter, only how high it is compared to other players in the same map
Using accuracy as a multiplier to avoid last hits being worth A LOT more than the first ones would be ok.
Star rating system is useless since there are lots of kinds of "difficulty".
Star rating system is useless since there are lots of kinds of "difficulty".
You must be dumb for not seeing a problemdarkmiz wrote:
I don't see a problem.Valentiino wrote:
And this change would require stat wipes on all beatmaps :I
really
And also if FL is "easy to farm" and "much easier"
why dont u Silver S rank with FL the songs below?
http://osu.ppy.sh/s/46969 [DN Angel]
http://osu.ppy.sh/s/46084 [Maximum]
http://osu.ppy.sh/s/18260 [Guest Diff Collab]
Those songs are fairly easy for me and shud be fairly easy to you
Since that you say that playing with FL is almost the same with no mod
Go ahead and prove it lol
Problem is not how hard Flashlighting is, but how impossible some DTs are while FL is still possible, meaning FL HD = forever #1 unless someone goes and do FL HD (+HR) at the very least.
http://osu.ppy.sh/s/28107
Great example. If you can DT HD that with 99,5%+ then you should be banned. Which is why "dynamic" bonuses would be the best choice. Since you got other maps like this, where FL for obvious reasons would be much harder than DT:
http://osu.ppy.sh/s/23238
It remains being true though that it'd be quite unfair if some not very good player got FL HD SS and #1 there even while he can't DT that map... but only real solution to this would be removing FL but that won't be done, ever, unless some new clever cheat that can't be detected appears.
http://osu.ppy.sh/s/28107
Great example. If you can DT HD that with 99,5%+ then you should be banned. Which is why "dynamic" bonuses would be the best choice. Since you got other maps like this, where FL for obvious reasons would be much harder than DT:
http://osu.ppy.sh/s/23238
It remains being true though that it'd be quite unfair if some not very good player got FL HD SS and #1 there even while he can't DT that map... but only real solution to this would be removing FL but that won't be done, ever, unless some new clever cheat that can't be detected appears.
Not the best example. Gold dust actually has low OD and it's easy to get good accuracy on compared to other maps even with HR, and the jump speed on it with DT isn't that crazy compared to many maps we have today except for like a few tiny bits. The biggest problems would be the 265 streams but since they're not spaced and not long either and people actually exist who can stream 270 this is theoretically possible.Wishy22 wrote:
http://osu.ppy.sh/s/28107
Great example. If you can DT HD that with 99,5%+ then you should be banned.
Like, if Remilia-Scarlet cared enough to do it, I can see him doing DT+HD on that map with 100%. The amount of effort involved in doing that comparatively to FL+HD is irrelevant because skill and effort are not the same thing anyway. If Tom94 cared enough to do it be can probably do it as well as probably all of the top 50 players. Just because Cookiezi didn't get around to caring enough to do it doesn't mean it's impossible, yo.
I think this is a much better example for a map that: http://osu.ppy.sh/s/45760
Memorizing this whole map for FL isn't that big of a deal because most of the patterns are right next to each other or go in a line. But good fucking luck DTing this /at all/, let alone with accuracy higher than 95%.
that's ridiculous, gold dust with DT is something even cookiezi would not be able to fc. on paper, it sounds so very easy, you only have to read AR 11, stream 265 BPM, do some fast jumps, bam, fc. the reality is: only very few players in osu are even able to do one of the listed things properly, not to speak of all 3.Aqo wrote:
Not the best example. Gold dust actually has low OD and it's easy to get good accuracy on compared to other maps even with HR, and the jump speed on it with DT isn't that crazy compared to many maps we have today except for like a few tiny bits. The biggest problems would be the 265 streams but since they're not spaced and not long either and people actually exist who can stream 270 this is theoretically possible.Wishy22 wrote:
http://osu.ppy.sh/s/28107
Great example. If you can DT HD that with 99,5%+ then you should be banned.
Like, if Remilia-Scarlet cared enough to do it, I can see him doing DT+HD on that map with 100%. The amount of effort involved in doing that comparatively to FL+HD is irrelevant because skill and effort are not the same thing anyway.
This is "only" AR 10 (9? I can't really tell, but seems to be 10), some fast crossscreen umps and 240 BPM streams.
sounds easy, but cookiezi barely passed this map.
it's incredibly hard to even pass hard insanes above the 170 BPM mark with DT, as it is incredibly hard to pass hard insanes above the 230 BPM mark. there are only a few players that combine speed, accuracy, readingabilities, aiming and a calm head to pull fcs on maps like this off.
obviously it's not easy, anything above 17x bpm with DT is crazy, but GD specifically is a low OD map, it's not the greatest example for stuff that's completely impossible with DT, the stuff you put just now is much better examples for "hard as hell with FL but possible(?) on the same level nomod is, DT - forget it".
What the fuck are you talking about dude Cookiezi could fucking sight-read AR 11 (and is still probably the best at that) and the best he could do there was clear with tons of misses, and his aim is still the best BY FAR, even years ago when Airman was first released his aim was better than any other player's now. OD means shit on that kind of maps nobody cares about it, you'll get randoms 100 everywhere because the map is kind of unreadable for everyone except for 2 or 3 players, and the cursor speed + impossible snapping those patterns will require on 270 BPM will make it impossible to FC. Really if you use DT you will get 100s because you're late to the hit after a jump not because the OD is high.Aqo wrote:
Not the best example. Gold dust actually has low OD and it's easy to get good accuracy on compared to other maps even with HR, and the jump speed on it with DT isn't that crazy compared to many maps we have today except for like a few tiny bits. The biggest problems would be the 265 streams but since they're not spaced and not long either and people actually exist who can stream 270 this is theoretically possible.
Like, if Remilia-Scarlet cared enough to do it, I can see him doing DT+HD on that map with 100%. The amount of effort involved in doing that comparatively to FL+HD is irrelevant because skill and effort are not the same thing anyway. If Tom94 cared enough to do it be can probably do it as well as probably all of the top 50 players. Just because Cookiezi didn't get around to caring enough to do it doesn't mean it's impossible, yo.
I think this is a much better example for a map that: http://osu.ppy.sh/s/45760
Memorizing this whole map for FL isn't that big of a deal because most of the patterns are right next to each other or go in a line. But good fucking luck DTing this /at all/, let alone with accuracy higher than 95%.
And no that other map is stupidly impossible to do because of streams and 1/6. And AR.
Please stop speaking shit and play the damn game, you'll see how what you're saying is completely retarded (at the very least). No offense intended, but that's reality, thinking Gold Dust + DT is even close to possible for any player is really dumb.
PS: LOL didn't read that thing about "the whole top 50 could do it", lol dude you got to be kidding, or you are really clueless about how hard things are.
Yeah no if you'd asked me last week I'd also think gold dust FC on DT is near impossible but after I specced some plays yesterday by top 10 on unapproved maps with 300+ bpm and ridiculous sv things look differentWishy22 wrote:
PS: LOL didn't read that thing about "the whole top 50 could do it", lol dude you got to be kidding, or you are really clueless about how hard things are.
sorry but I think you're clueless on how good some people in this game are
Which reminds me, some other day I specced Renard live play this http://osu.ppy.sh/s/27104 on DT and nearly SS it in just like 10 tries, and this map is lightyears harder than gold dust both jump-wise and stream-wise. kyou-kun says it was actually cookiezi on Renard's account, but this was like 3 weeks ago
BPM has nothing to do with it, it's damn impossible jumps what's hard.Aqo wrote:
Yeah no if you'd asked me last week I'd also think gold dust on DT is near impossible but after I specced some plays yesterday by top 10 on unapproved maps with 300+ bpm and ridiculous sv things look different
sorry but I think you're clueless on how good some people in this game are
Some other day I specced Renard live play this http://osu.ppy.sh/s/27104 on DT and nearly SS it in just like 10 tries, and this map is lightyears harder than gold dust both jump-wise and stream-wise. kyou-kun says it was actually cookiezi on Renard's account, but this was like 3 weeks ago
No, the best player ever was is and will probably be for a while Cookiezi, and he couldn't do Gold Dust and all, it's not that I'm saying this, I ASKED HIM if he thought he could do it, he said the best he could manage to do is clear it.
Renard is a joke, people saying Cookiezi uses that account and shit, you better ignore every super play you see from that player since it's really fishy.
This can be easily clarified, tell me what's your top 10 and I'll go (or you do) ask them if they think they can ever clear Gold Dust on DT.
Contrary to popular belief fast/huge jumps are not all that hard in comparison to hard patterns which is why hatsune miku no shoushitsu is hard. It's all about the patterns. Gold dust is perfectly passable with HD DT because the patterns are predictable and easy and I'm gonna go ahead and say there are a fair few people (at least 100) who could clear it. Really this is why it's hard to place mods without checking out the map. A map with screen jumps can be so much easier than a map with strange patterns that the mods become skewed. They don't take into account anything on the map.
As said before, flashlight is a hard mod yes but it can be used by ANYONE while other mods such as doubletime and hardrock require higher playing standards to use. In reality flashlight shouldn't give 1.12 because people have to put more effort in than others who use doubletime because it still requires less skill. As I've stated before people don't get gold medals in the Olympics for trying the hardest they get gold medals for being the best (but apparently not in this game).
As said before, flashlight is a hard mod yes but it can be used by ANYONE while other mods such as doubletime and hardrock require higher playing standards to use. In reality flashlight shouldn't give 1.12 because people have to put more effort in than others who use doubletime because it still requires less skill. As I've stated before people don't get gold medals in the Olympics for trying the hardest they get gold medals for being the best (but apparently not in this game).
Ok go ask 10 random top 100 players and tell them to give 10 or 20 tries to Gold Dust. thelewa already did he failed on the first 15 20 seconds.
thelewa sucks on high BPM streams, if he doesn't lie about his skill. though I also think that the only people who could possibly ever clear gold dust with dt are cookiezi and maybe white wolf, niko and rucker
I love the arguments here:
It's possible to train to memorize, but it's not possible to train to move faster (FL vs DT).
It's possible to train to memorize, but it's not possible to train to move faster (FL vs DT).
Note the difference:
If you can DT Gold Dust, you are probably one of the best players ever and it probably took years or training to do it.
If you can FL Gold Dust, you are probably one player that just put 1000 plays memorizing it.
It IS possible to DT FC Gold Dust, not for any human player though (yet). Plus if you can DT Gold Dust, then you can FL it if you play it enough times, which does not apply to the opposite case.
If you can DT Gold Dust, you are probably one of the best players ever and it probably took years or training to do it.
If you can FL Gold Dust, you are probably one player that just put 1000 plays memorizing it.
It IS possible to DT FC Gold Dust, not for any human player though (yet). Plus if you can DT Gold Dust, then you can FL it if you play it enough times, which does not apply to the opposite case.
Welp, no point trying to explain to the ignorant.
Who are you to call me an ignorant? What I said, like it or not, is true.
Actually, I think it's undeniable that it is a strong argument to say that being able to DT a song implies the physical capability to FL a song. Being able to FL a song, on the otherhand, does not imply physical capability to DT a song.
However, I think that there is a mental element to FL, which should not be disrespected. Being able to physically do FL is different than being able to mentally handle the task. This does not strike me as enough to place FL in the same difficulty category as DT, but it is worth remembering that the mod is still very hard to do, and requires a specialized skill set of its own.
However, I think that there is a mental element to FL, which should not be disrespected. Being able to physically do FL is different than being able to mentally handle the task. This does not strike me as enough to place FL in the same difficulty category as DT, but it is worth remembering that the mod is still very hard to do, and requires a specialized skill set of its own.
Precisely. However, some people need to get over their god complex and realize that FL may take just as much skill as DT.