mapped by Mango0307
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This beatmap wasn't updated since 21 July 2023 so it was graveyarded...
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00:00:000 All modding posts were applied while looking at the map together via VC. Replies were made by whichever of us was more comfortable.

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00:03:039 - I think there should be more notes in this part. 00:05:282 - The sound is louder than here

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ur right, I'll fix it, thanks

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Marked as resolved by Mango0307

00:03:110 - missed synth here?

similarly,
00:03:881 - piano
00:04:231 - synth
00:04:652 - synth
00:05:913 - synth
00:06:124 - piano
etc

I think it makes sense to map these as you mapped other similarly faint sounds like 00:06:614 (6614|6) this synth

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00:06:614 (6614|6) - for this, it is vibration of sinth.

00:04:231 - it surely sounds different, so added note.
00:04:652 - added cause its missing melody

everything else: so faint when heard with 100% speed

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Marked as resolved by ssapgosu

00:07:806 ~ 00:08:086 - I think you could've jacked these 1/3 synths
you have much harder patterns later in the map anyway

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with jacks, it is hard to go natural with 00:09:488 - 00:12:011
so keep.

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Marked as resolved by ssapgosu

00:09:675 (9675|4,9768|5) - maybe stack these (or other notes at these timestamps) for emphasis? Feels a little weak around here

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added LN for more emphasis. also added to other parts according to its strength.

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Marked as resolved by ssapgosu

00:10:703 (10703|3,10797|5) - nudge a col left? It looks weird with it forming a trill when piano pitch is simply increasing here

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ok. fixed

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Marked as resolved by ssapgosu

00:12:011 (12011|5,12058|4,12105|2,12152|0) - reverse PR

00:14:815 - weird reverse PR around here too.

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00:12:572 (12572|5,12712|2) - imo these should be chorded. Piano notes here are chords like at 00:12:993 (12993|3,12993|0)

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fixed

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Marked as resolved by ssapgosu

00:13:974 - It is recommended to add LN to express the loudness.

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LN on 00:13:694 (13694|0) - is for bass sound. and rice at 00:13:974 (13974|6) - is for melody. so it is different, no reason to elongate melody because bass getting louder.

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Marked as resolved by ssapgosu

00:14:535 - double stream here? You have doubles at 00:16:077

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oke. fixed

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Marked as resolved by ssapgosu

00:15:376 - You should have 4 long notes
00:14:254 - like here

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00:15:376 (15376|1,15376|4,15656|3,15656|6) - To make this long note flow, I made it double note

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Marked as resolved by Mango0307

00:15:656 - 적어도 여기 신스음 트리플 줄만하다고 생각합니다. 00:15:376 (15376|5,15376|1,15376|4,15376|0,15376|2) - 앞에서 강한음 강조를 위한표현을 노트 5개를 사용했던 것도 있고, 00:17:899 - 비슷한 구조에서 쿼드 강조 다음 동일구조의 신스에서도 트리플 사용한게 있어서 00:15:656 - 더블은 약간 표현이 약해보이는듯한 느낌이 있어요

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00:15:376 - 아니면, 여기 5노트를 쿼드로 변경하고 00:14:254 - 여기다가 5개 줘도 나쁘지 않을 수도 있다 생각하는게 00:14:254 - 여기 파트자체가 새로운 파트의 시작점이자 아래 1/4 노트등에 대한 제약도 없어서 크게 강조하고 시작해도 충분할만큼 강하게 줄수있는 파트라 생각해봅니다. ( 이 제안을 하는 이유는, 00:15:376 - 여기 5노트 이후로 동일한 구조의 강조부분에서는 쿼드가 사용되기 때문에 일관적 오해 요소를 줄이기위함임 )

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00:14:254 /00:15:376 둘다 5노트로 변경했고 00:17:058 . 00:18:180 등 강한음들은 5노트로 일관성있게 변경했습니다.

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Marked as resolved by Mango0307

00:15:937 (15937|0,15937|1,15937|4) - 1/4 LN을 사용한 의도는 이해하지만, 구조적으로 봤을 때 00:16:007 - 여기 신스 사운드가 묵음이아니고 이어지는 사운드라 무시되면서까지 표현을 안하는건 다음 신스 더블 노트들 표현에 비해 크게 적합하지 않아보여서 여기도 신스용 노트 사용해주거나 00:15:937 (15937|4,15937|1,15937|0) - 꼭 롱놋을 사용안하고 00:18:460 - 이 파트처럼 더블노트로 패턴 만들어도 될것같다고 생각해요.

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단놋더블로 수정했습니다.

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Marked as resolved by Mango0307

00:16:497 - 00:17:619 - 00:18:740 - 쿼드 사용이 불가능한 이론은 아니지만 그래도 난 음악구조적 표현을 고려했을 땐 일부 쿼드 사용이 표현적으로 부적합한 부분이라고 생각합니다.

00:17:058 - vs 00:17:619 - 간단하게 여기파트만 가지고 예시를 든다면, 00:17:058 - 노래에서 피아노인지 쨋든 악기 사운드가 강하게 박히는데, 두 파트는 서로 강조되는 음부터 달라서 일반적인 신스음과 강한 악기 사운드에 대한 강도를 같게 쿼드 노트로 표현하는게 무게감이 맞는지 잘 모르겠습니다.

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#3834851/10261566
이와 같이 5노트 / 4노트로 수정했습니다.

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Marked as resolved by Mango0307

00:18:040 - Wrong note? 00:17:759 - maybe here

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00:18:040 This is where notes with pitch exist
00:17:759 This is a pitchless synth? sound, so I didn't put any notes on it.

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Marked as resolved by Mango0307

00:19:722 - The keyboard sounds the same.( 00:19:301 )

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thats the reason why both note has same LN. 00:19:301 (19301|6) - this extra rice is for drum.

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Marked as resolved by ssapgosu

00:20:142 ~ 00:20:983 - imo instead of stacking I think you should have extended LNs into the next notes to differentiate these synths from the louder synths at previous sections.

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extend some notes, but without breaking the pattern.

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Marked as resolved by ssapgosu

00:20:983 ~ 00:27:712 , 00:29:955 ~ 00:34:441 How about emphasizing the main melody with LN?

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i already did that on 00:03:039 - 00:20:983, so i had to change theme.
sound changed, so i coudnt stick to older part's theme

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Marked as resolved by ssapgosu

00:22:666 00:22:946 00:24:909 00:25:189
00:23:226 ~ 00:23:647 1/2
etc

embiggen chord for melody synth pls

01:01:357 ~ same goes for piano in this section

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00:22:666 - LN is held, so tripple is maximum
instead, placed LN for melody synth

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Marked as resolved by ssapgosu

for 01:01:357 - to empahsize violine from 01:04:722 -, just used drum for chords.

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00:27:853 - 00:28:133 - it should be 3 notes 00:28:694 - 00:28:974 - 00:29:254 - Compared to this

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All timeline you posted is 2 notes with similar strength. just in case if you want to spot other consistancy issue, mango fixed it.

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Marked as resolved by ssapgosu

00:29:254 (29254|1,29325|2,29395|1,29465|2,29535|0,29605|1,29675|2,29675|0,29815|2) - not hard but the left hand bias here is a bit weird. If you're going to do this I suggest doing it at places like 00:28:834 and 00:29:114 instead for the lazer beam sounds

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deleted lazer beam

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Marked as resolved by ssapgosu

00:39:348 00:39:768 00:40:189 00:41:170 00:41:591 - etc
could have more notes here for piano chord imo

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fixed all

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Marked as resolved by ssapgosu

oh mango tried it, and felt it so weird to play. removed again.

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00:47:268 (47268|5) - looks nicer on col 7

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moved

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Marked as resolved by ssapgosu

00:47:899 - 00:50:142 - Both use grace, or neither.

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sound is different. so pattern is different. if you mark bookmark and compare two, you'll notice it.

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Marked as resolved by ssapgosu

Listening to both sections at 25% speed, I hear the same vibrato sound on 1/6th snap. Only the scale is different.

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Reopened by taba2

00:48:600 & 00:48:740 - could stack a column at here and at 00:48:881 & 00:49:021 here. Right now kick emphasis is really weak imo.

see: 00:50:843 (50843|0,50983|0)
similarly you could stack a column at 00:51:124 & 00:51:264, 00:49:722 & 00:49:862, 00:50:843 & 00:50:983, etc

on the other hand
00:50:703 (50703|4,50843|4) - shouldn't stack imo

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applied, except for 00:49:021 - . it is bit vause to treat as kick.

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Marked as resolved by ssapgosu

00:52:525 (52525|6,52596|4,52666|3,52666|6) - could make this look more obviously trillier than 00:52:806 (52806|4,52876|2,52946|4,52946|6,52946|5) - as the former is more intense. Example

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keep.
00:52:525 (52525|6,52596|4,52666|6) - intended to repetitively appear this structure.

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Marked as resolved by ssapgosu

fixed

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Marked as resolved by ssapgosu

00:56:871 - The piano is heard in 1/3 sound.

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reasonable. i'll keep it and talk it to mango

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Marked as resolved by ssapgosu

.

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Reopened by ssapgosu

피아노 소리가 4스냅 기준 3/3/2박자로 들리긴 합니다

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Marked as resolved by Mango0307

뒤에 풀롱부분이면 확인 필요

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Reopened by Mango0307

수정완료했습니다

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Marked as resolved by Mango0307

01:01:357 (61357|4,61357|0,61357|2,61357|6) - 여기 파트 시작부분 만큼은 롱놋으로 어캐 표현해주는건 어떨까요? 표현적인 면보단 일관적인 방법을 택해서 굵은 흰색라인마다 쿼드 사용하신건 이해하지만, 그만큼 표현력이라는 면에서는 꽤 마이너스가 될수있는 요소라고 생각해요. 그래서 01:01:357 - 파트 시작부분의 심벌즈 강조느낌만이라도 살려서 특수 표현해줘도 괜찮아보여요

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심벌즈 소리를 롱놋으로 표현하는것은 앞에 썼던 그리고 01:04:722부분 롱놋과 달라 어색하다고 생각합니다.
그리고 잭의 시작부분이므로 깔끔함을 더하고 싶습니다.

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Marked as resolved by Mango0307

01:05:703 - 소리에 비해서 3노트는 많아보이네요 01:05:423 - 여기랑비교했을때도

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01:09:208 01:09:348 01:09:628 - etc
stack a bit at these pls

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01:09:628 - already stacked
other: fixed

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Marked as resolved by ssapgosu

01:11:100 - missing flute note?

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added. it is actually on 1/8 snap.

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Marked as resolved by ssapgosu

01:11:521 (71521|5,71661|3) - you sure there are flute notes here?

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at least mango is sure. not sure its flute.

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Marked as resolved by ssapgosu

changed structure tiny bit.

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01:11:941 (71941|2,71941|3) - 여기부분은 어떤걸 표현한건지도 잘 가늠이 안갈정도로 소리가 약하게 들리네요. 더블을 주면서까지 강도 표현을 해줘야할 부분인지 잘 모르겠습니다. 01:11:801 - 여긴 그나마 신스 사운드 존재감이라도 느껴지는데, 느리게 들어보면 01:11:941 - 여기는 거의 안들리고 잘 모르겠는 부분인지라 싱글 사용해주는게 그나마 나아보여요

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수정했습니다.

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Marked as resolved by Mango0307

01:12:572 ~ 01:12:853 - looks weird with both a roll and a trilly stair. Just bracket these? Reference point at 01:12:292

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fixed to double stair

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Marked as resolved by ssapgosu

mango told me bracket is not ok. might become boring as my map endroll. :sad:

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fixed to match actual sound.
fixed snap for 01:16:638

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Marked as resolved by ssapgosu

01:18:881 - not a big deal but the double roll here looks kinda bad. Here's something that's more similar to the 1/4 kick section back at like 30s.

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we think pattern is pretty enough and playes well.
flipped 01:19:301 - to change direction

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Marked as resolved by ssapgosu

01:31:638 - 여기도 충분히 피아노? 멜로디? 사운드 스냅 가르기 넣어줄만할것 같아요. 01:30:516 -> 01:31:077 -> 01:31:638 - 멜로디 일정 간격을 유지하는게 조금 더 일관적인것 같습니다

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저 파트는 피치가 존재하는 소리에만 노트를 넣었습니다.

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Marked as resolved by Mango0307

충분히 존재한다고 생각합니다만

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수정했습니다

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01:33:320 - I think you can have a note here

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fixed

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Marked as resolved by ssapgosu

fixed.

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Marked as resolved by ssapgosu

01:53:927 01:54:768 - maybe move a note before it so you have a 1/2 shield at these chords.

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fixed.

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Marked as resolved by ssapgosu

02:02:759 - transition here feels really awkward imo. Try something trillier right before it. This also lets you start the 1/12 at 02:02:759 properly.

03:00:797 ~ similarly here, but with LN

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fixed. now 1/12 roll does not feel suddenly appear.

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Marked as resolved by ssapgosu

02:10:610 - right hand roll really doesn't fit too well here. Try making it less rolly

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fixed. now not rolly.

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Marked as resolved by ssapgosu

02:13:133 (133133|0,133133|5,133133|1,133133|3) - 여기는 스냅 끝을 다르게 해서 롱놋을 표현해주는게 오히려 음악 구조적으로 표현이 이상하다고 느껴집니다. 02:13:273 - 후에 이어지는 특별한 신스 사운드 표현에 대해서 계단 쌓아주기위한 의도적인 변형이라고 생각은 들지만, 02:13:133 - vs 02:13:273 - 계속 들어봐도 두 파트가 강조되는 음의 분위기와 느낌 신스가 매우 다르기때문에 서로 표현을 같게하는건 좋은 강조가 아니라고 생각합니다

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02:13:133 단노트로 수정했습니다

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Marked as resolved by Mango0307

The pattern is similar, but I used that one to vary the difficulty

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If you have any complaints, please reopen the discussion

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Marked as resolved by Mango0307

망고님의 설명이 불충분해보여서 추가적으로 달아요.
02:05:282 - 03:21:544 -
여기만 봐도 2절은 1절 + 롱놋 이라는걸 아실수 있으실테고
전반적인 피치도 올라가고, 굉장히 어려운 키아이도 앞에 있기때문에
부드러운 난이도곡선, 1절과 확실히 다른점을 줌, 2절 자체의 컨셉에 맞음
이 3가지 이유로 롱놋이 복잡하게 들어간겁니다.

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02:28:554 & 02:28:694 - stack here like 02:27:432 & 02:27:572 pls

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stacked for 1 note cause pitch is different. 02:27:432 - is full stacked cause melody pitch is same. 02:29:675 - is similarly 1 note stacked cause pitch is different.

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Marked as resolved by ssapgosu

02:35:002 - reverse PR? Could try this at 02:34:441 and flip at 02:35:002.

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fixed.

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Marked as resolved by ssapgosu

02:37:245 02:37:455 02:37:666 - these synths feel a little underrepresented imo. Add some LNs?

02:38:367 - same goes here

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fixed.

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Marked as resolved by ssapgosu

02:45:656 (165656|0) - Why do you start the LN here compared to 02:43:273 (163273|6) which is on the red line despite being the same rhythm? And also why 02:45:376 is ignored?

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You're right. my mistake. Thank you :D

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Marked as resolved by Mango0307

02:53:927 - would be nice to have a little grace here too like at 02:54:068 for the synth. It's a little quieter here but it's def there.

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fixed.

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Marked as resolved by ssapgosu

02:58:554 - a bit too easy here. It's just single stream with doubles at the kicks, which is very underwhelming compared to sections right before this.

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it needs some contrast, but made it little harder.

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Marked as resolved by ssapgosu

yes

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Can you tell me what it sounds like, I don't see any connection to the 1/12 snap

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I don't think it matters if it's a 1/8 snap or a 1/12 snap.
The important thing is that I chose 1/12 snap ,and I've made it consistent
02:02:759 / 03:01:077

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Um. Okay. The RC says this
Every note should correlate to a sound present in the music. This should be a distinct sound, but can also coherently represent a continuous sound with an indistinguishable start or end. Exceptions in favour of simplification should be made when following the music completely accurately... so... If this doesn't work for you, that's fine.

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Marked as resolved by Mango0307

can u explain why u think its okay to use sounds with obviously different snaps as 1/12 snap?

no matter how u listen to it, this sound never sounds like a 1/12 snap. what is the main reason why u think this expression should be "unconditionally 1/12 stream with 1/4 LN", since this expression is currently musically incorrect? i personally dont think ur answer is the one that will largely resolve this comment

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Reopened by DenYi

My opinion is this
Although it's actually common to use 8 snaps for sounds,

I see this as part of the dump representation.
I think the 1/12 snap was used because it's the only snap that can 'cleanly' move 2 times per line from line 1 to line 7, and the mapper seems to have taken that into account.

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Nik's idea is right. Wanted to make clean 2 stroke delay for the sound. Also, it givs a lot of playablity.
Did that explained it?

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Marked as resolved by ssapgosu

sry closing the discussion immediately seems hasty when we have to wait for answers from taba2 and denyi

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Reopened by Niks

Oke

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Even if it was intended to make 2 stroke delay sounds, it was clearly overmapped. The 1/8 snap is enough to satisfy the description, and I don't understand why the pattern is forced to be shaped with snaps that have nothing to do with the music just to give it playability.

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한국인이시니 한국어로 답변하겠습니다. 일단 전 개인적으로 위에 말한 것처럼 1/8이든 1/12이든 상관이 없습니다. 1/12를 사용한 이유는

이부분과 노트수 맞추기 위함입니다. 1/12를 사용했을때 닉스님이 말씀하신 것처럼 배치가 이쁘게 나오기도 합니다. 1/12 부분을 1/8로 바꾸면 03:01:077 ~ 03:01:357 여기가 03:00:797~03:01:077 이곳보다 밀도가 낮아지지 않을까? 라는게 제 생각입니다.

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Marked as resolved by Mango0307

아니 그냥 님들이 이거그냥 1/12스냅임 ㄹㅇㅋㅋㄹㅃㅃ하먄 되는 논리가 아니라니까 왜 이런 답이 계속 나오는지 이해가 안가네 애초에 노래에 맞지도 않고 1/8 스냅 표현을 일부러 1/12스냅 가져다 박아뇌서 1/4 롱놋그어가지고 이거 그냥 1/12스냅 사용해도 무슨 문제임! 하는게 님들은 논리가 맞다고 생각함?

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Reopened by DenYi

무슨 1더하기1을 물어봤는데 오늘은 날씨가 화창하네요 이러는 것도아니고 이맵이 덤프 맵입니까? 일부분에서 덤프표현 박는다해서 이 맵이 의도적으로 표현된 덤프 표현이라기엔 너무 표현적으로 이치가 맞지 않는다고 생각합니다. 애초에 이맵은 롱놋 릴리즈의 인식이 더 강한맵이지 그냥 일부분에서 덤프 박았으니까 이맵 덤프맵도 가능함~ 그니까 우리는 1/12스냅 사용할거임 이러면 뭐... 어떻게 받아들여야할지 모르겠네요. 그 논리면 어떤맵이건 일부로 엇박스냅 내놓고 같은 논리로 받아쳐낼 수 있겠네요 + 납득될 이유를 말해주실때까지 이부분에 대한 토론 끝낼 생각 없습니다 닫지 말아주세요

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소리가 명확하게 1/8을 지원하는데 이걸 1/12로 늘려서 쓰고싶으면, 다른 모든 구간에서도 일관적으로 덤프 패턴을 유지해서 맵셋 전반적인 일관성이 유지될때만 가능하다고 봅니다. 지금같이 특정 구간만 사용하는건 역으로 일관성이 떨어진다고 보네요.

The sound clearly supports 1/8, but if you want to use it by increasing it to 1/12, I think it is possible only when the mapset overall consistency is maintained by consistently maintaining the dump pattern in all other sections. It seems that using only a specific section like now is inconsistent.

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저는 1/8 인지 1/12인지 사운드가 명확하지 않아서 1/12를 사용했습니다. #3837710/10270335
여기서부터 저는 1/8인지 1/12인지 상관이 없다고 적어놓긴 했습니다만 #3837710/10274736
이 글에서는 1/12이 확실함?? 이런 내용만 있고 이 소리가 1/8이라는 내용은 없네요. 이 소리가 1/8로 들리는데 1/12로 쓴 이유가 있는가? 라고 물어보시면 제가 아 이소리는 1/8이군요 수정하겠습니다. 라고 말하지 않았을까요?
#3837710/10276900
제 입장에서 생각도 안해보시고 이런글은 좀 심하다고 생각합니다.
여기 사운드가 1/8이라고 생각하신다면 다시 답변 달아주시고, 그럼 수정하겠습니다. + 02:02:759

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그러면 본인이 "1/8이건 1/12이건 상관없다" << 1/8을 언급한 이유가 이해가안가 잘 안가는 부분입니다 적어도 인지하신줄알고 그런 표현 사용하신줄 알았네요 그래서 제가 굳이 하나하나 언급할 필요 없다고 생각했습니다 (애초에 타바님 의견자체가 1/8스냅인데 구조적 맞지 않는 스냅을 사용하는 이유를 모르겠다임ㅎㅎ.. + "난 애초에 1/12스냅이 확실함?"이 아니구요 1/12스냅이 아닌데 1/12스냅을 사용한 이유가 있음을 따졌는데요). 그리고 위에서 덤프 표현이라고 언급할 이유도 없구요. 1/12스냅 사용하면 네 이쁘네요 좋아요 근데 노래에 맞지 않아요. 결론적으로 명확하게 1/12스냅은 절대 아닙니다 수정하는걸 "부탁"드립니다 그리고 입장을 생각안한게 아니구여, 저는 "음악적 구조적으로 일치하지 않는 표현 + 덤프라기엔 너무 애매한 일관성" 등을 언급하여 다시 알려드린 것일 뿐입니다 제가 약간 공격적이게 나온것같아 죄송하지만, 망고님의 의도를 생각을 안했다는 것은 아니라는점 알아주시면 좋겠습니다

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혹시 순간밀도가 같거나 더 높으면서 1/8로 왼쪽-> 오른쪽으로 2번 진행할수 있는, 첫노트가 1col에서 시작하는 패턴 추천 가능하실까요?

버스트니까 순간밀도가 더 낮아지는건 좀 힘들고,
100% 기준으로 들었을때 소리가 2번 뭉쳐서 들리기에, 두번 진행해야할꺼같고
이전 진행하던 방향이 있으니 왼쪽에서 오른쪽으로 가는게 플레이성에 좋고
이전 커넥터가 1567에 위치하니 03:01:077 (181077|0,181077|4,181077|5,181077|6) -
첫 노트는 1번에 위치해야할꺼같아요.

03:00:797 - 여기부터 수정하셔도 되니 대안을 보여주시면 그게 기준(플레이성, 연계 잘되는지)에 맞는다면 그 즉시 고쳐보겠습니다. 지금 고쳐보려고 하는데 1/8로 하려고 해도 저런 의도들을 지키면서 하니 배치가 나오지 않아서요.

현재 찾은 그나마 나은 패턴은 인데 저 드럼롤에는 1/2에 4노트가 들어갈정도인거같지는 않아서 애매하네요.

그리고

이런 문제점도 있어서 가능하면 피하고싶네요.

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그저 노트수를 맞추기 위함, 구조적 아름다움을 위해서라면 RC에 명시 되어 있듯이 음악과의 상관관계가 이루어지지 않습니다. '12스냅을 써야겠다.'라는 의도는 노트의 구조적인 측면에서 오는 것이 아니라, 음악의 구조적인 측면에서 옵니다. 해당 문제 부분에서 들리는 글리치 사운드는 솔직히 한 방향의 플로우 보다는 플로우가 2번은 트위스트되면 좋겠다고 생각이 드네요.

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@ssapgosu 윗 부분 구조를 지금 배치해두신 것처럼 가져가고 싶으시다면 굳이 8스냅 부분의 구조만을 수정할 필요는 없어 보이네요. 스트림 부분의 구조를 수정해서 스윙 주는 것도 괜찮을듯?

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예시로 보면
이렇게요?

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망고의견 받아서, 빨간선 3노트 될 필요 없어서 결국 배치 찾았습니다.
이렇게 수정하면 될까요?

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본인들이 생각하기에 그게 제일 적합한 방법이라면 그렇게 하십쇼

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4스냅 간격으로 왜 더블 들어갔는지 잘 모르겠기는 한데 플레이할 때 그렇게 큰 영향은 안 줄 거 같은 구조라서 이 정도면 전보다 훨씬 나은 거 같네요

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나중에 일단 확인해보겠습니다

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@ming 4스냅간격은 드럼때문에 괜찮은거같음

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fixed.

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Marked as resolved by ssapgosu

03:03:600 (183600|4,183635|5,183670|6) - 03:04:161 (184161|0,184231|1,184301|2) - 03:04:722 (184722|0,184722|6,184722|5,184722|1) - I don't understand 3 different patterns for the same guitar sound, why not make it consistent?

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03:03:600 (183600|4,183635|5,183670|6) - There is a pitch increase
03:04:161 (184161|0,184161|3,184161|4,184161|5) - a clear sound
03:04:582 (184582|3,184652|4,184722|5) - The sound is timed to 1/4 of a snap
The reason for the large number of notes is to balance the difficulty

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Marked as resolved by Mango0307
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03:03:600 Since we're using LN here, I think it would be awkward to use rice
And I think it's a good balance

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I don't see the consistency of the long notes for the drums in this part, can you explain it in relation to the previous part? I think it should be consistent with the previous part if it's just for the sake of using long notes. 03:08:367 (188367|0,188367|1,188507|2,188507|4) - For example, these patterns are not visible in the previous part.

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I didn't represent that part because it has a lot of pitch changes

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03:04:161 (184161|4) - This sound will only last for the length of this LN
03:08:367 (188367|5) - This sound is more than three times as long.

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That's not what we're talking about...

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What I'm saying is that I put that long note in because there's nothing to express while there's no pitch change

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it would be more awkward to use a short note.

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I think that's the best pattern in that part

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Okay. I understand the use of long notes, but why is there a difference in the way the drum is represented between the two sections with no pitch change?

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Drums are simply a count of notes. so the way I represent the drums in both sections is the same.

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Marked as resolved by Mango0307

03:12:082 - missing kick note?

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fixed

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Marked as resolved by ssapgosu

03:17:198 - 03:17:339 Sound connects. Suggest connecting notes. https://osu.ppy.sh/ss/18590750/ea4c

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seperation between synth and drum was the key point to emphasize. so didnt connetcted them.

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Marked as resolved by ssapgosu

03:21:544 - 03:51:825 - I don't understand the density of the second kiai section. Can you explain the criteria for the density?

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03:21:544 ~ 03:35:002
Same as the first kiai, but with LN added.
03:35:002 ~ 03:51:825
this is the final highlight, I've used mostly LN

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Okay, I get that you're using long notes, but what's a melody line and what's a drum, and it's so chaotic and even inconsistent that I need an explanation for that.

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Marked as resolved by taba2

Clicked by mistake

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Reopened by taba2

the drums are represented with 4/5 notes. The rest used LN for streams. For example, like the tiefsee kiai pattern

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Marked as resolved by Mango0307

I apologize for resurrecting this comment, but I wanted to ask how you use LN to control the expression of intensity in musical structures, based on taba's suggestion.

03:37:245 ~ 03:38:367 - I'll give an example with the part in question.

When I slowly listen to the main synth sound structure of the part, 03:37:245 - 03:37:455 - 03:37:666 - 03:37:806 - 03:38:016 - 03:38:226 - The highlighted parts with the highest pitch of the main synth sound are as follows, and I don't know the criteria for how to highlight them in terms of the length of the LN and the number of notes you used.

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Reopened by DenYi

In another example, 03:38:086 - vs 03:38:226 - where there is a clear difference in the intensity of the notes, 03:38:226 - we have a mix of randomized intensity representations with weaker emphasis on the louder sounds and stronger representation on the lower synth sounds, so I'm wondering what criteria you used to create this LN release pattern and how you adjusted the intensity representation and density of the pattern along the way.

It could simply be that I haven't played 7K and haven't figured it out, but I would appreciate some clarification on your representation if possible.

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before mango comes and write his response, want to write about structure of this part.
1/1s -> 4 3 4 3
1/2 -> 3 notes
1/4 -> 2 if strong melody, otherwise, 1.
i'm not sure why mango made 03:38:226 - double.

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and from 03:39:488 - , rules change a bit cause it is 2nd phase of this part.(after 03:38:927 - this burst)
to introduce 4note on every 1/1, if we dont reduce number of notes for 1/4, it will ruin playablity because it will form some repetitive pattern or weird shape streams, both of them is not good. (we also considered that this is LN stream, so need bigger spaces)
so reduced number of LN for 1/4 on this part. except for really strong melody, all 1/4 is now 1 note.

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03:38:226 이부분이 더블인 이유는 03:38:367 / 03:38:647 여기 5노트를 강조하기 위해서입니다. 만약 3노트를 쓴다면 3/1/5로 03:38:927이부분 4/2/3 순간밀도와 비슷해집니다. 그리고 03:38:226 / 03:38:507 이부분을 2노트로 두면서 5노트가 표현이 잘된다고 생각합니다. 나머지 밀도는 쌉고수님 말이 맞습니다.

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03:38:367 이부분 col5에 밀도가 조금 있어서 롱놋이랑 조금 수정했습니다.

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버스트 강조랍시고, 음악 구조적으로 강조되는 부분과 되지않는 부분을 같은 롱놋에 같은 강도를 가지게해서 구조적 표현을 잃게하는 특별한 이유도 좀 물어봐도 괜찮을까요? 그냥 단순하게 일정 스냅마다 노트 갯수를 정해가지고 박았다는거로 들리는데 그러면 노래 강도 표현성에 대해서는 여전히 미스난다고 생각하고있고, 적어도 그 강도의 차이를 위한 롱놋을 한개씩 줄인다거나 길이를 조정한다는 등의 표현적인 시도는 해볼 가치는 없었을 까요? 플레이성을 망친다는건 뭔지 모르겠는데 지금도 나름 표현에대해선 반복성이 강한데..?

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우선 깔려있는 드럼들은 일정한 양의 노트로 표현이 된거고, 그 위에 1/4에서 강조되는 멜로디가 있으면 2노트를 넣음으로써 곡의 제일 어려운부분인데도 노트 갯수 표현은 잘했다 생각합니다.
무엇보다 패턴의 플로우가
03:37:385 (217385|5,217385|0,217455|1,217455|6,217525|2,217596|3) -
03:37:666 (217666|4,217666|1,217736|3) -

03:37:666 (217666|4,217666|1,217736|3) -
03:37:946 (217946|4,217946|1,218016|2,218016|6,218086|5,218086|1,218156|4) -
03:38:226 (218226|2,218297|3,218367|4) -
이렇게 들어가서
실제 플레이를 하는 사람이라면 무조건 강조가 되었음을 느낄수 있을꺼라 생각합니다.

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실제 칠때 플로우

시각적인 플로우

현패턴은
멜로디에 대해 (든이가 원하는 수준은 아니지만) 강조노트도 넣으면서
실제 칠때 플로우와 시각적인 플로우 둘다 만족시키며
칠때 플레이성에 문제가 없게 모든 구간이 짜여있고,

거기에 그에 문제가 되지 않으면서 드럼베이스를 잘 살릴수 있는 노트수를 구하고, 테스트하고, 배치 조정, 릴리즈 조정 등 우리의 기준(칠때 재밌고, 칠때 문제없으면서 노래에 맞게 흘러가는 맵) 에서 최상의 품질을 위해 미세 조정한 결과물입니다.

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난 플로우를 따지는게 아.니.라.니.까 디스코드에서 무르모님이 말했으니까 리맵되는걸 기다리겟음 이젠

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03:26:381 (206381|0) - 03:26:381 (206381|0) - 03:28:554 (208554|0) - 03:28:834 (208834|6) - There is no reason to use such an extremely short long note. I don't see any reason why it should be short compared to other notes in the same sound. Just look at the snap directly in front of or behind of that for comparison

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if you're going to make a shape, at least make it sound the same 03:26:381 (206381|0) - 03:27:292 (207292|6) - Why do these two have to be such short long notes in different places?

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I'm not talking about playability, I'm talking about why there should be different lengths of long notes in the same sound.

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03:26:170 ~ 03:27:011
03:27:292 ~ 03:28:133
I think sounds should be viewed part by part, not piece by piece. For example, when creating a stream, it doesn't matter if it sounds the same but is placed differently. So I think it's okay to have short LN in a different position, as long as it doesn't make them less playable.

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Marked as resolved by Mango0307
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it is not growing all time. it actually decreases on 03:30:376 -.
and sound's volume is already expressed with 03:30:096 (210096|0,210236|1,210376|2) - these stack of notes.

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Marked as resolved by ssapgosu

03:32:268 (212268|6) - would be nice to have this on the left hand instead

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fixed for better hand balance.

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Marked as resolved by ssapgosu

03:39:488 - 드럼이없는데 4노트는 좀큰거같네요 이부분의 다른 4노트들과 비교했을때

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03:43:413 (223413|2,223413|1,223507|2,223507|1,223694|4,223694|5,223787|4,223787|5) - possibly overkill? This section is already a little harder than the rest of the map.

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fixed.

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Marked as resolved by ssapgosu

fixed.

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Marked as resolved by ssapgosu

03:50:703 - the funny

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lol
signature pattern

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seperated for better playablity. your one was actually on the consideration, but while mapping, we decided to not eliongate them.

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Marked as resolved by ssapgosu

03:53:226 - Suggest adding one LN.

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on this part, we used only rice to express larger bell sound.
Even if we added the LN, it wasn't clear where to break it.

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Marked as resolved by ssapgosu

04:20:142 - Suggested to add LN for loud sound. https://osu.ppy.sh/ss/18590757/86cf

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reasonable. i'll keep it and talk with mango

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Marked as resolved by ssapgosu

.

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Reopened by ssapgosu

음이 세져서 노트를 추가하는게 나쁘진 않은데 음이 추가되는건 아니기 때문에 어색하다고 생각합니다.

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.

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Marked as resolved by Mango0307

04:20:843 04:20:983 - maybe map these clock ticks cuz it feels a little empty here and the rising synth feels a bit underrepresented.

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omitted for simplicity of the ending pattern.

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Marked as resolved by ssapgosu
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