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[Rule] Don't use Short, Full or Cut ver.

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HakuNoKaemi
3,828 posts
Joined October 2009
HakuNoKaemi
Well, you used to cut songs because of the limit → there's no duration limit (other than marathon minium) → there's no need
Then: someone can want to make a "special" cut → badly made cuts are not-so-easily-timing-able → you need more "pro" cuts → they're rare and it's acceptable to call them "Username" edit→There's no need
Also: there are different version of some songs. differently arranged → they easily mantain the name of the one who edited or so→ there's no need
Mercurial
Mercurial
Since today I'll add (osu! Ver.) title on all short songs :)
ziin
2,632 posts
Joined January 2010
ziin
This isn't something that needs consistency. If you want to make a standard, sure, but it's just another line in the wall of text that is our rules. We need to make them as simple as possible, and it's not confusing to have:

Bad Apple! (TV Size)
Bad Apple! (Short Ver.)
Bad Apple! (osu! edit)
Bad Apple! (Cut)

Why? Because Bad Apple is first, and the descriptive part is second, which allows it to be alphabetized correctly, and the descriptive part is just there to tell you a little bit about the song. It doesn't matter if all of them are the exact same mp3. It's not even all that important to differentiate between TV size and full, since that information is given to you when you select the song, not that people look at the time length.

@haku
You cut songs because they're incredibly long and tedious. Not because of some arbitrary limit.
HakuNoKaemi
3,828 posts
Joined October 2009
HakuNoKaemi
but you'll actually prefer to cut the end, since it's more easy. (and that mean it's a short(er) ver).
And still other type of cuts are callable "edit" (osu! edit or so), but those are so rare.
ztrot
osu! Alumni
4,378 posts
Joined February 2008
ztrot
To all MAT and BAT start popping bubbles that use any variant of Short Full Cut Ver unless it is in the title of the song. Amended

There is no need to use any of these types unless they are part of the real song's title
Aurele
Global Moderator
7,514 posts
Joined January 2011
Aurele

ztrot wrote:

To all MAT and BAT start popping bubbles that use any variant of Short Full Cut Ver unless it is in the title of the song. Amended

There is no need to use any of these types unless they are part of the real song's title
*take in notes for my futures beatmaps*

tons of beatmaps will be popped. *w*
ztrot
osu! Alumni
4,378 posts
Joined February 2008
ztrot
not really tons just 19 maps in total
Aurele
Global Moderator
7,514 posts
Joined January 2011
Aurele
Well, 19 maps, it's alot.
Charles445
Elite Mapper II: Aspirant / osu! Paragon
2,881 posts
Joined March 2009
Charles445
Oh, here's an idea, in order to still classify said songs as 'Short', put 'short' in the tags.
merchat7
1,673 posts
Joined December 2010
merchat7
Just one question regarding this, what if you decide to map a "short ver/tv size" of a song and later on, decide to map a full version of this song? From my understanding (http://osu.ppy.sh/s/37242), you cannot submit two maps with the same name so what will be done?

If this is already changed, just ignore me.
ztrot
osu! Alumni
4,378 posts
Joined February 2008
ztrot
if you do a TV size chances are the song would have that in it's title if you are being lazy and cut a song and what to do it over you are out of luck.
ouranhshc
2,338 posts
Joined July 2009
ouranhshc
sooo what about Full Version stuff
LKs
3,119 posts
Joined August 2009
LKs
I'm waiting for someone to update the wiki and write a clear rule before really going to pop those bubbled map.

I'm not sure: Does it mean except for (Tv size), we arn't going to use title extensions unless they are in real song title? Or just refrain from using Shoet ver& Cut Ver& Full Ver?
Colin Hou
osu! Alumni
4,456 posts
Joined November 2009
Colin Hou
unless it's in real song title
ouranhshc
2,338 posts
Joined July 2009
ouranhshc
so i could have

Tatsh - reunion , the video game version, and Tatsh - reunion, the full version?
Sakura
osu! Alumni
7,979 posts
Joined March 2010
Sakura

ouranhshc wrote:

so i could have

Tatsh - reunion , the video game version, and Tatsh - reunion, the full version?
That would cause a submission problem it depends on which you submit first in that case i assume.
ouranhshc
2,338 posts
Joined July 2009
ouranhshc

Sakura wrote:

ouranhshc wrote:

so i could have

Tatsh - reunion , the video game version, and Tatsh - reunion, the full version?
That would cause a submission problem it depends on which you submit first in that case i assume.
okay... that makes a whole lot of sense
merchat7
1,673 posts
Joined December 2010
merchat7
Hmm, by in the title of the song, does this mean something like this? http://vgmdb.net/album/30869 Applies to this beatmap http://osu.ppy.sh/s/39120. If you consider vgmdb an unreliable source, just search around, vgmdb is just easier for me due to it being an English website.

I can probably find more for currently bubbled map if this is the case.

Also, confuse a little, let's say http://vgmdb.net/album/32683 or http://vgmdb.net/album/27055
Knowing short ver. like in vgmdb or Knowing (Short Ver.), which should be used even through one is not the same as official?
And does this mean I have to add full ver to this beatmap? http://osu.ppy.sh/s/32507
秘密仕掛けのapple ／ フルVer. フル=Full
This also means some beatmap will need to have full ver because I have seen this in other ost/single as well.

I wait for replies before posting in that thread.
Miya
2,690 posts
Joined June 2011
Miya
I'm still not sure. So, other than TV size, we can't write short ver or cut ver? What about TV size?
Sakura
osu! Alumni
7,979 posts
Joined March 2010
Sakura

Miya wrote:

I'm still not sure. So, other than TV size, we can't write short ver or cut ver? What about TV size?

Sakura wrote:

keyword: "Assumed"

a.k.a dont need to add titles except for TV Sized songs since that's in the name of the song to begin with.
Colin Hou
osu! Alumni
4,456 posts
Joined November 2009
Colin Hou

merchat7 wrote:

Hmm, by in the title of the song, does this mean something like this? http://vgmdb.net/album/30869 Applies to this beatmap http://osu.ppy.sh/s/39120. If you consider vgmdb an unreliable source, just search around, vgmdb is just easier for me due to it being an English website.

I can probably find more for currently bubbled map if this is the case.

Also, confuse a little, let's say http://vgmdb.net/album/32683 or http://vgmdb.net/album/27055
Knowing short ver. like in vgmdb or Knowing (Short Ver.), which should be used even through one is not the same as official?
And does this mean I have to add full ver to this beatmap? http://osu.ppy.sh/s/32507
秘密仕掛けのapple ／ フルVer. フル=Full
This also means some beatmap will need to have full ver because I have seen this in other ost/single as well.

I wait for replies before posting in that thread.
from the opening PV:



about the FULL Ver. ye you should add it as I see
NoHitter
osu! Alumni
3,785 posts
Joined June 2009
NoHitter
So if I have a 2:30 version of a song, and a 4:30 version of a song, with this new rule, I can no longer differentiate between them?
merchat7
1,673 posts
Joined December 2010
merchat7
Overall, I'm still confused. I have seen countless time in official video and official album that the titles are different, which one should be followed? I also do not understand why only tv size is being kept, I don't think I've seen tv size in any anime opening/ending or in any ost yet except for maybe titles of some youtube video and that's it. Let's just say, the amount of time I've seen tv size is around the same amount as the times I've seen short ver.(ost/theme song/maxi single)

Basically:
-Why is tv size being kept?
-What is a real official title? Please also make this more clear in the respective sections (osu wiki, this post...) for less confusion in the future.
Ekaru
3,617 posts
Joined July 2008
Ekaru
If a soundtrack contains the "TV Size" of a song, then it pretty much always has TV Size added to the title (in Japanese, of course). That is why it's being kept.

EDIT: Song naming semantics are confusing, I know. I'd argue that the only thing that's a definite no-no is putting (Full Ver.) in the title of the full version of songs, but w/e.
Sure
4,220 posts
Joined February 2009
Sure

merchat7 wrote:

Overall, I'm still confused. I have seen countless time in official video and official album that the titles are different, which one should be followed? I also do not understand why only tv size is being kept, I don't think I've seen tv size in any anime opening/ending or in any ost yet except for maybe titles of some youtube video and that's it. Let's just say, the amount of time I've seen tv size is around the same amount as the times I've seen short ver.(ost/theme song/maxi single)

Basically:
-Why is tv size being kept?
-What is a real official title? Please also make this more clear in the respective sections (osu wiki, this post...) for less confusion in the future.
This is my sentiments.
They(anime and eroge) are very similar in every points.
Scorpiour
2,633 posts
Joined May 2011
Scorpiour
so no Cut ver/Short ver/Full ver now....

what about other special ver i.e. PV ver, remix ver, or something else?
arien666
6,290 posts
Joined May 2009
arien666
Just add some system about this on osu! ???
Not submission but technically...
Sure
4,220 posts
Joined February 2009
Sure
Until now, we added title extension for specifying its length easily, not for following the real title.
Maybe length shown in game can specify the music. But we don't know whether there exist Full ver. or not through the length.
I really don't see big problem with thing that we did until now.

As arken1015 said, adding some system might be a good solution.
Have any ideas?
Colin Hou
osu! Alumni
4,456 posts
Joined November 2009
Colin Hou

merchat7 wrote:

Overall, I'm still confused. I have seen countless time in official video and official album that the titles are different, which one should be followed? I also do not understand why only tv size is being kept, I don't think I've seen tv size in any anime opening/ending or in any ost yet except for maybe titles of some youtube video and that's it. Let's just say, the amount of time I've seen tv size is around the same amount as the times I've seen short ver.(ost/theme song/maxi single)

Basically:
-Why is tv size being kept?
-What is a real official title? Please also make this more clear in the respective sections (osu wiki, this post...) for less confusion in the future.
for TV Size, it has been used for a long time in our history, and there're already many players choosing maps by this. as full version of OP/ED usually get mapped, it does be a effective way to let us tell the difference between them.

second point, if you find the title in PV and CD booklet different, they should be both acceptable. I'd suggest using the one which is different from other versions' though

about the system for this messed things, I think showing the length of the longest diff in the map list would help in searching, and even the titles are the same, it's still easy for players to get what they need
ztrot
osu! Alumni
4,378 posts
Joined February 2008
ztrot
From the wiki

Refrain from using Short, Full, or Cut Ver. in your map title unless the extension is listed in the song's original title. Refer to Wikipedia, Google, or the album track list to confirm.
Sure
4,220 posts
Joined February 2009
Sure

ztrot wrote:

From the wiki

Refrain from using Short, Full, or Cut Ver. in your map title unless the extension is listed in the song's original title. Refer to Wikipedia, Google, or the album track list to confirm.
According to its logic, also TV Size must be removed.

EDIT : OK, I understand what this means.
It seems the video(OP/ED) can't be supporting evidence.
Last edited by Sure , edited 1 time in total.
ztrot
osu! Alumni
4,378 posts
Joined February 2008
ztrot
did you not read this part? unless the extension is listed in the song's original title almost every TV size has this in it's song title for real
xsrsbsns
1,936 posts
Joined July 2010
xsrsbsns
This map previously had the Short Ver. title until a MAT went in and asked that it be removed.

In actual fact the original title is "XXX half chorus Ver." http://vgmdb.net/album/30869
So what's the recommended action now?
Stefan
Global Moderator
10,407 posts
Joined January 2011
Stefan
Okay, I have to ask about some example like for kors k vs. L.E.D. - SOLID STATE SQUAD
http://osu.ppy.sh/s/15630
http://osu.ppy.sh/s/27148

I never played beatmania, but how should we handle with them?

Another example is fripside - future gazer
http://osu.ppy.sh/s/23102
http://osu.ppy.sh/s/33575

There is also something with Yousei Teikoku - Kuusou Mesorogiwi, but it is the same as the second example.
They are already ranked, I know, but for the future if this happens again, what does the creator have to do?
NoHitter
osu! Alumni
3,785 posts
Joined June 2009
NoHitter
Honestly, the status quo was much better than this.
Too many grey area maps that arose from this change.
Sakura
osu! Alumni
7,979 posts
Joined March 2010
Sakura

NoHitter wrote:

Honestly, the status quo was much better than this.
Too many grey area maps that arose from this change.
What's so hard about researching it in whichever source you have?, it's as black and white as if it's in the official title = yes, if it's not = no
NoHitter
osu! Alumni
3,785 posts
Joined June 2009
NoHitter
Grey areas:

NoHitter wrote:

So if I have a 2:30 version of a song, and a 4:30 version of a song, with this new rule, I can no longer differentiate between them?
Charles445
Elite Mapper II: Aspirant / osu! Paragon
2,881 posts
Joined March 2009
Charles445

NoHitter wrote:

So if I have a 2:30 version of a song, and a 4:30 version of a song, with this new rule, I can no longer differentiate between them?
Easy.

1. Add 'Short' to the tags to aid those searching for Short versions
2. Look at the Total Time / Draining Time information provided on the site.
NoHitter
osu! Alumni
3,785 posts
Joined June 2009
NoHitter
Having it in the title is more convenient though.
The beatmap listing doesn't exactly have the draining time/tags listed.
ouranhshc
2,338 posts
Joined July 2009
ouranhshc

NoHitter wrote:

Grey areas:

NoHitter wrote:

So if I have a 2:30 version of a song, and a 4:30 version of a song, with this new rule, I can no longer differentiate between them?
Good luck with submitting it.
ztrot
osu! Alumni
4,378 posts
Joined February 2008
ztrot

xsrsbsns wrote:

This map previously had the Short Ver. title until a MAT went in and asked that it be removed.

In actual fact the original title is "XXX half chorus Ver." http://vgmdb.net/album/30869
So what's the recommended action now?
then you would use what is in the legit title I'm not seeing the confusion here it is quite simple
HakuNoKaemi
3,828 posts
Joined October 2009
HakuNoKaemi
half chorus Ver.

more obvious than this
xsrsbsns
1,936 posts
Joined July 2010
xsrsbsns

ztrot wrote:

then you would use what is in the legit title I'm not seeing the confusion here it is quite simple
which wasn't the action taken by the staff so I wanted to make sure, simple as that.
Ekaru
3,617 posts
Joined July 2008
Ekaru

xsrsbsns wrote:

ztrot wrote:

then you would use what is in the legit title I'm not seeing the confusion here it is quite simple
which wasn't the action taken by the staff so I wanted to make sure, simple as that.
The staff aren't perfect. If you believe the staff have made a mistake then grab some proof and shove it in their faces show it to them. They'll typically go, "Oh, okay," and leave it at that if you do so.
xsrsbsns
1,936 posts
Joined July 2010
xsrsbsns
Whoa calm down mister. I clearly WAS grabbing proof from this thread, and that's settled. No need to derail this thread any more.
Mercurial
Mercurial
Yeah, nice change.

I'm a Lucky Guy, I just ranked my Tv Size song 4 days ago
Aurele
Global Moderator
7,514 posts
Joined January 2011
Aurele
also... why is this rule exist anyways? Life was simplier without it. No but sincerly, on this thread I see stuff like : "What If I want to map the short version of a song and then map the full version?" which I think the rule is just useless.
Astom
1,588 posts
Joined October 2008
Astom
I don't know from wich point this ended like this but is just so wrong than I can't even describe it.

First: When you cut a mp3 to reduce is length because it's 6 or more minutes long (for example) it's because you are actually following the rules about length of rankable maps, then you are obviously making the mp3 a short ver. and it's not being lazy or anything like that, it's just make a proper map with a proper length for be played with ranked score.

Second: Cut songs with 3 loops (for lyrics for example) or more it's usually fine and make the map at least less tiring of play, and again, it's a short ver. of the song because it's not the original song at original size.

Third: A song that is not anymore of the original length can't be callled for is full name, just ask yourselves, why companies call short ver. of songs for TV "TV Size"? (for example) and don't use their original name, it's to express than they are not the "original" ver. anymore. It's like when you read a book extract it's called "name of book (extract)" or things like that.

Fourth: Most of people don't read tags, and most of them will not notice a shorten ver. of any song, I take myself as example because I actually mistake some songs for full ver. because they don't say "full ver." or "short ver."

Finally, there are songs that don't have a TV size ver. officially released so you need cut a full ver. to make it a "TV size" length or at least close to that, so with this rule your map will be named "Song Name" without the TV size or Short ver. just because it's from a full ver.? I need say the word for this?

That's all.
Hanyuu
2,223 posts
Joined February 2009
Hanyuu

those wrote:

Ever since p/1604382, it's come to my attention that there needs to be a consistent way of labeling something as a Cut Version and something as a Short Version. While we're here, we can also discuss TV Size, Full Version, Extended Version, or whatever fits, if necessary.

What should be labeled with Cut Ver.?
A cut in the wave simply refers to the removal of a certain wave section in the music, whether this is at the beginning, end, or a part in the middle.

What should be labeled with Short Ver.?
A Short Version is something that is featured in the source. For example, an OP for an anime is labeled (TV Size), similarly, an OP for a visual novel is labeled (Short Ver.).

What's the difference between the two?
Many themes come with a longer, or full version. A Short Ver. is essentially a Cut Ver. that has already been provided in the album/compilation/soundtrack. A Cut Ver. is a shorter version that someone has made out of the full version, but is not provided in the album/compilation/soundtrack.

Conclusion: from all this, I'd like to propose a rule/guideline that will help make labeling songs more consistent. In general, simply do not add (Short Ver.) or (TV Size) if the song didn't come with it. While this may not be a big issue now, with more and more maps being labeled randomly, there will be a large inconsistency between the two.

Also, while we're on the topic of making metadata more consistent, please continue discussing Eastern Artists Format in this thread: t/83715
You are making this way too complicated in my opinion. What is the problem with Short/TV Size/Full version after the song name. I never really saw any song with "Cut ver." so i searched and i found 264 results. The first one being "Cut ver." and the other 263 probably being "Short ver."

There is a pretty huge inconsistency lol. This one song oh god...
Anyways if your talking about anime and VN then what about song from games, are they now game size? They don't really have any label to it because it's just not needed (but i remember one song that has game size in it :P). Actually i know one song from a rhythm game that is in fact the same song but again completely different in the game than in the original version. Its a version made for the game.. "Game Ver." (lol)? Game Size?. Don't you think thats a bit retarded if you are going to label anything just because there might be a stupid reason and it might be true but who cares?

Also "Cut Ver." just looks stupid and i dont really see alot of songs that even need this. Just because you remove the last part of the mp3 file, because of another rule, you are no longer allowed to call it short version, based on your post. So everyone from now on has to call their edited mp3 file "Cut Ver." (according to your post) unless they find an official short version of the same song so you admins can give some peace for once*facepalm*.

Why make it so hard...?

TV Size: The song in a version used for TV shows openings/endings.
Short Ver: Obvious but obviously not. A song in it's shortened version.
Full Version: A song in its full length/version.
Extended Version: Same song but longer than the original one. (can't find the words to describe it more clearly, common sense is suggested)
Cut Ver.: The only thing i would really label like that, is if you really cut out parts throughout the song so it does really sound different than it's supposed to be. That's the only reason for me to label a song like that. Shortening a song is defenitely not this. <_<
10nya
2,746 posts
Joined February 2011
10nya
maybe cut ver.can be added on tags ? o m o cuz when add Cut Ver. on the title seems asdf .__. idk what am I saying but that was just my opinion otl
Sakura
osu! Alumni
7,979 posts
Joined March 2010
Sakura
You are the guys that are looking at it in a complicated way, probably should've edited the OP too.

TV Size is fine since all (or most) songs are labelled like that officially, TV Size is usually are very weird and different cut that was made specifically for the OP/ED version of the song.

Just go with whatever the official album/wikipedia tell you it's called and you'll be fine.

Edit: After some talk with other BATs and MATs this will be reconsidered, current suggestion is to Add Short/Cut ver. when you cut at least 50% of the song (or the version is at least 50% of the full ver.), TV Size would continue the same way as usual.
NoHitter
osu! Alumni
3,785 posts
Joined June 2009
NoHitter

Sakura wrote:

Edit: After some talk with other BATs and MATs this will be reconsidered, current suggestion is to Add Short/Cut ver. when you cut at least 50% of the song (or the version is at least 50% of the full ver.), TV Size would continue the same way as usual.
I'm fine with this compromise.
It at least allows people to judge more or less the length of a song from the title, and prevents any submission errors from people wanting to map the short and full version of a song.
Scorpiour
2,633 posts
Joined May 2011
Scorpiour
actually ..i got another question about my map:
http://osu.ppy.sh/s/52386

it is an "remix ver" which is cut from original tv size and extend to 8 times length for a collab programme :)

so which label may be suggested...? i'd like to add a "long ver" or "infinite ver" but don't know if it's allowed or not.
zeroclover
468 posts
Joined December 2010
zeroclover
i afraid cant use this song title later :
HakuNoKaemi
3,828 posts
Joined October 2009
HakuNoKaemi
Scorpiour → you can follow the title the creator used
zeroclover → You can use it. tRiCkStAr Remix is a remix, not a particular version.
ztrot
osu! Alumni
4,378 posts
Joined February 2008
ztrot
After talking it out a bit more it is seemed this is better fitting for a guideline I suppose there are to many cases of artists being silly as for maps they were changed they don't have to be changed back unless the mapper feels the need to add this to there title and unless you cut more than 50% for a song there is no need to really state it unless you really want to. Still subject to change
Astom
1,588 posts
Joined October 2008
Astom

ztrot wrote:

After talking it out a bit more it is seemed this is better fitting for a guideline I suppose there are to many cases of artists being silly as for maps they were changed they don't have to be changed back unless the mapper feels the need to add this to there title and unless you cut more than 50% for a song there is no need to really state it unless you really want to. Still subject to change
Most of japanese songs can be cut at 1/3 of its length or 2/3 of its length (for example), first case is usually called "TV size" and second can be called a "Short ver." so I suggest raise that 50% to ~65% (no more than 70%), it will be more accurate. Still, I think, if a mapper can give a proper explanation of why add "Short ver." or anything like that it will be enough.

~
those
3,136 posts
Joined November 2010
Topic Starter
those
My view on this still has not changed from the very beginning:
If you made the cut yourself, the version is (Cut Ver.).
If you found it from the soundtrack already cut for you, the version is (Short Ver.).
How confusing can it get?
Astom
1,588 posts
Joined October 2008
Astom

those wrote:

My view on this still has not changed from the very beginning:
If you made the cut yourself, the version is (Cut Ver.).
If you found it from the soundtrack already cut for you, the version is (Short Ver.).
How confusing can it get?
Why not use a general label for any song edited by yourself, that means make it shorter or larger or any other type of edit, to make noticeable any sort of change to the song.
Just saying.

PD: http://osu.ppy.sh/p/beatmaplist?s=7&o=1 ... 0&g=0&la=0
Mercurial
Mercurial
Gonz just updated this thread

I still don't know how this ends...
MMzz
Elite Mapper
3,979 posts
Joined June 2009
MMzz

those wrote:

My view on this still has not changed from the very beginning:
If you made the cut yourself, the version is (Cut Ver.).
If you found it from the soundtrack already cut for you, the version is (Short Ver.).
How confusing can it get?
@Mercurial
Loctav
Popcorn Fairy
4,496 posts
Joined February 2009
Loctav
So did this thread reached any conclusion (after two months of being dead)?
Else I'd mark this thread with a flame and move it.
Loctav
Popcorn Fairy
4,496 posts
Joined February 2009
Loctav
Apparantly not. Feel free to dig this out if you think that another reconsideration is required and move it back.
eldnl
Former osu!catch Champion: 2013
2,930 posts
Joined March 2010
eldnl
This just doesn't matter, what is the point on creating random rules?
Stefan
Global Moderator
10,407 posts
Joined January 2011
Stefan
I have no clue what's so difficult on this:
Short Ver. = A shorter Version of the Song which is offical.
Cut Ver. = A shorter Version of the Song which is unoffical.
Full Ver. does not really exist. We got TV Size or Short Ver. but no real Full Ver.

http://osu.ppy.sh/s/11841 <- Actually a Cut Ver.
http://osu.ppy.sh/s/14405 <- The original Version which does not require (Full Ver.) in the Title.
eldnl
Former osu!catch Champion: 2013
2,930 posts
Joined March 2010
eldnl
Using Cut or Short ver. is very usefull, you will know how long is the song, or if it is the original one ...
Kurokami
osu! Alumni
4,024 posts
Joined February 2010
Kurokami
I think Cut or Short version is good since you know how long is the song (as this sad above), and you will know this is not the original one. Someone cutted (officially or not) it. And Short version song does exist so we should use them as well.
Stefan
Global Moderator
10,407 posts
Joined January 2011
Stefan
Huh I am not sure if I said somewhere that Short Ver./Cut Ver. does not exist nor is neccessary to use. o.o

@Kurokami: I gave my mind what I see as Cut and as Short Version. A Cut Version is when you are not mapping the full Song and having like 20~25% of the Song empty because of various reasons. And since you HAD to cut the Song in case you're mapping less than 80% the term "Cut Ver." would fit right (and would be used right).

Other thing to Short Versions: These are complete and not cutted but still shorter as the Original Version. As Example:
http://osu.ppy.sh/s/39031 <- Short Version
http://osu.ppy.sh/s/40873 <- The full Song but since it's the Original we do not set (Full Ver.) in the Title?
Kurokami
osu! Alumni
4,024 posts
Joined February 2010
Kurokami
@Stefan I know what is the difference between them. I just tried to point out they aren't the original full lengh songs. So we should use them in the title.
Ephemeral
Inland Empire
3,945 posts
Joined April 2009
Ephemeral
this is largely ignored as a guideline and all variants of the ver. tag in song/beatmap names look extremely poor and out of place.

accordingly, this guideline is now considered as a rule and maps that violate it henceforth are candidates for unranking.
Sure
4,220 posts
Joined February 2009
Sure

Ephemeral wrote:

this is largely ignored as a guideline and all variants of the ver. tag in song/beatmap names look extremely poor and out of place.

accordingly, this guideline is now considered as a rule and maps that violate it henceforth are candidates for unranking.
Sorry, I don't get it. This should be reconsidered.
BeatofIke
4,172 posts
Joined September 2011
BeatofIke

ykcarrot wrote:

Sorry, I don't get it. This should be reconsidered.
I think so as well since it indicates whether the song is short, extended, cut, full, etc.
mancuso_JM_
osu! Alumni
4,615 posts
Joined October 2010
mancuso_JM_
Quoting this:

mancusojuanmattos wrote:

Really, this rule is really unnecesary, Does it hurt in some way if we have 'Short ver.' in title?
I don't think so, really.
I don't agree with this rule neither, I agree with carrot. This should be reconsider, or just move this back as a guideline, really.
eldnl
Former osu!catch Champion: 2013
2,930 posts
Joined March 2010
eldnl

Ephemeral wrote:

this is largely ignored as a guideline and all variants of the ver. tag in song/beatmap names look extremely poor and out of place.

accordingly, this guideline is now considered as a rule and maps that violate it henceforth are candidates for unranking.
Until now no one likes the idea, you should reconsider it.
Konei
2,959 posts
Joined March 2012
Konei
I agree!
Irreversible
osu! Alumni
4,315 posts
Joined December 2011
Irreversible

Konei wrote:

I agree!
Aurele
Global Moderator
7,514 posts
Joined January 2011
Aurele
Posting here,

will edit with my opinion.
Luna
2,355 posts
Joined November 2010
Luna
Yeah, this makes little to no sense as an unrank factor.
CXu
osu! Alumni
3,558 posts
Joined March 2009
CXu
Try this:
https://osu.ppy.sh/p/beatmaplist?q=go!g ... 0&g=0&la=0

What do you assume when you see this? First map being full version and the second one being TV Size. Right? Well, both are TV Size, the first one was just incorrectly labeled (it's an old map).

So let me ask this: Why should we now make "short ver." and "cut ver." songs indistinguishable from full songs? Imagine there were a map for the full song; you wouldn't know at all which map was the full one.

So yes, this is a silly rule. You should instead enforce the use of labels if they aren't full songs. From what I can see, that's what's being done recently; not labeling full songs, but labeling shorter versions.
Miya
2,690 posts
Joined June 2011
Miya
Hooray i like this song, gonna download this now~

What? its not full version/cuted? meh~
Just my 2 cents, i don't think this rule is necessary too.
DakeDekaane
osu! Alumni
3,500 posts
Joined February 2012
DakeDekaane
There are (at least) many songs from visual novel that officially states "<song name> (Short Ver./Version)". Not allowing to put Short Ver. when it's the title of the song itself is silly imo.

I'm ok with not allowing to put Cut/Full Ver. unless it's stated in am official source.
Last edited by DakeDekaane , edited 1 time in total.
Faust
osu! Alumni
4,785 posts
Joined January 2009
Faust
Needs some case-by-case handling so we don't end up having to unrank a map whose title actually has an <insert> ver. as part of it.
CXu
osu! Alumni
3,558 posts
Joined March 2009
CXu
That's already covered by the rule proposed in the OP though:

those wrote:

Conclusion: from all this, I'd like to propose a rule/guideline that will help make labeling songs more consistent. In general, simply do not add (Short Ver.) or (TV Size) if the song didn't come with it. While this may not be a big issue now, with more and more maps being labeled randomly, there will be a large inconsistency between the two.5
Still, it's still going to be confusing, especially when it's a popular song, to determine if the map is the full song or a cut version of it, lol. Imagine 5 maps of the same song where 3 are short while 2 are full. As a player, I'd like to know which is what.
Stefan
Global Moderator
10,407 posts
Joined January 2011
Stefan
@CXu I don't think that we should involve old Maps in this discussion since most people didn't really cared off about the correct Title, Artist, etc.

I wonder why things like https://osu.ppy.sh/s/39031 / https://osu.ppy.sh/s/40873 or https://osu.ppy.sh/s/59569 / https://osu.ppy.sh/s/72119 having the same Name but the one is shorter/longer as the another one. Of course there are sometimes more as one version of a single Song. But how should we actually deal with these Things? The first Maps (I've named above) are technically Short Ver. of the second Maps, or did I forgot something here?
CXu
osu! Alumni
3,558 posts
Joined March 2009
CXu
I was using that old map as an example to show how not labeling the maps would be confusing.
About the maps you linked: then enforce proper labeling of songs instead, lol. I mean, 1 label for each case instead of 1 label for like 3 cases is bound to be less confusing, right?.
popner
osu! Alumni
2,407 posts
Joined March 2011
popner
Yes I agree that the rule makes no sense, and just bother people because they need to click the map to know whether it is a 1:30 version. Once I like to find short maps this way, but things changed when this comes out.
Stefan
Global Moderator
10,407 posts
Joined January 2011
Stefan
It just needs a correct usage of the labels. That's all. Sonnyc' GENTLEMAN Map as example is correct.
merchat7
1,673 posts
Joined December 2010
merchat7
Just wondering, you need to actually find an official source that (Short Ver.) is used or just simply finding a full version of the song is fine? The problem with finding an offical source for the shorten mp3 is that a short ver. of a song is not always included in the OST or singles and on the official website, there is sometime no link to the mp3, simply a demo movie [=> so (Demo Ver.) then?). Also some full version to songs are extremely hard to find or not released yet (read below).

For example, I try to see if the recently unranked map because of this rule had any official source of short ver., but couldn't find any download link to mp3 on official website (like here http://puu.sh/3eYmg.png), simply demo movie and didn't see any source in particular which include short ver. I also tried to search for a full version, but couldn't find one yet (just because it doesn't exist at this point in time, doesn't mean it doesn't exist; "demo" ver. released 2010 - full ver. found on an album in 2012, two years later! Note that this happens quite frequently).

It's commonly accepted for visual novel/eroge songs to have short ver. so I'm a bit surprised by the unranked of that beatmap to be honest.

Just adding to the discussion, I would like to see this rule changed too. The only reason I've seen so far is that it's for aesthetic? Is this really the only reason? As others had mention, it really help distinguish the length of maps in beatmap listing on the website and game. I also find that the current rule relies that the mapper knows perfectly whether short ver. is in the title or not and not all mappers are aware where to search for this.
Kodora
Kodora
I agree with previous opinions, it will looks better as guideline, (Short Ver.) or (Full Ver.) in title helps to distinguish them much better than tags.
Lally
3,177 posts
Joined December 2011
Lally

eldnl wrote:

Using Cut or Short ver. is very usefull, you will know how long is the song, or if it is the original one ...
^this
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