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Custom diff names

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85
Kodora
Topic Starter
Kodora
Posting according to p/2725328



Having custom diff names (especially at hardest diffs, like "0108", "Rin", "Skystar", "KIRBY mix", "DaRRi MIx" etc) already become good tradition in mapping. Is there are any valid reason to disallow that?

Just my opinion: as long as mapper explained difficulty level in creator's words it's fine. That's how mappers usually do that.

Well, discuss.
Last edited by Kodora , edited 1 time in total.
Kinomi
1,229 posts
Joined August 2012
Kinomi
I‘m afraid that mapping become more and more inflexible
Makar
osu! Alumni
2,258 posts
Joined February 2011
Makar

Kodora wrote:

Is there are any valid reason to disallow that?
Yes. A difficulty name is meant to identify the difficulty level, not the mapper name. Mapper1's Hard is okay, but Mapper1 is not. Telling others to look at star rating or max score is not a valid point, because you can not see this in multiplayer lobby. Do not expect others to assume the difficulty level even though it might be some "tradition" - new players will not know these "traditions"

Kodora wrote:

Just my opinion: as long as mapper explained difficulty level in creator's words it's fine. That's how mappers usually do that.
Don't use previous maps or situations to justify something being okay. I think you got this reverse: It is polite to at least include the -creator- in the description. Why prioritize mapper instead of difficulty level for a difficulty name?

I just want to say for the sake of this thread: do not say something is okay or bad unless you have a valid reason that doesn't conflict with valid reasons to (not) include it. In other words: no bashing
Stefan
Global Moderator
10,407 posts
Joined January 2011
Stefan

Tsukuyomi wrote:

I‘m afraid that mapping become more and more inflexible
This is absolutely not involved with anything in the fact "Inflexibility on mapping".

At first: Why has the Diff Name(s) to be changed? I agree with them if they are Insane-related like https://osu.ppy.sh/s/118869 That's pretty well used and even have a short description which Insane is easier/harder.

The Name Spread looks immense inconsistent due the transition from Normal > Hard.

Reasonable unrank.
kisata
521 posts
Joined September 2012
kisata

Makar wrote:

Kodora wrote:

Is there are any valid reason to disallow that?
Telling others to look at star rating or max score is not a valid point, because you can not see this in multiplayer lobby.
Why not fix this (and the star rating in general), instead of once again taking away mapping freedom?
Stefan
Global Moderator
10,407 posts
Joined January 2011
Stefan

apaffy wrote:

Why not fix this (and the star rating in general), instead of once again taking away mapper's freedom?
Being stubborn and doing unnecessary things for previous named points is not an excuse. Also, people: From where the hell are you using the slogan "don't take mapper's freedom"? Can you please stop with it?
Kodora
Topic Starter
Kodora

Makar wrote:

Yes. A difficulty name is meant to identify the difficulty level, not the mapper name. Mapper1's Hard is okay, but Mapper1 is not. Telling others to look at star rating or max score is not a valid point, because you can not see this in multiplayer lobby. Do not expect others to assume the difficulty level even though it might be some "tradition" - new players will not know these "traditions"
You always can open site to look at Creator's Words.
We was have these tradition for years and already have huge amount of ranked maps with diff names like that (and it's not something really hurtful - also, new players will knew that "tradition" just by looking at already ranked maps -most of them are most played and well-known).

Makar wrote:

Don't use previous maps or situations to justify something being okay. I think you got this reverse: It is polite to at least include the -creator- in the description. Why prioritize mapper instead of difficulty level for a difficulty name?
Because mapper is main person who contributed to mapset. Having his name as difficulty name help identify his style and just looks cool (0108 diffs for example).

I edited first post by the way.
peppy
19,314 posts
Here since the beginning
peppy
<username>'s <difficulty> is fine.
Removing difficulty is for what reason? To prove that you are so well known for creating n difficulties that you want to prove this by not including the actual difficulty name? I can think of no other reason.
Kinomi
1,229 posts
Joined August 2012
Kinomi

Stefan wrote:

Tsukuyomi wrote:

I‘m afraid that mapping become more and more inflexible
This is absolutely not involved with anything in the fact "Inflexibility on mapping".

At first: Why has the Diff Name(s) to be changed? I agree with them if they are Insane-related like https://osu.ppy.sh/s/118869 That's pretty well used and even have a short description which Insane is easier/harder.

The Name Spread looks immense inconsistent due the transition from Normal > Hard.

Reasonable unrank.
yeah Insane-related is enough

but you can see Insane-related is not accepted

lacking of the diff name has a gradual affection,tell mapper your diff is a diff which is standardized，standardized，and standardized
Kodora
Topic Starter
Kodora

Stefan wrote:

The Name Spread looks immense inconsistent due the transition from Normal > Hard.
There are two hard diffs, feel free to choose easier one.

peppy wrote:

<username>'s <difficulty> is fine.
Removing difficulty is for what reason? To prove that you are so well known for creating n difficulties that you want to prove this by not including the actual difficulty name? I can think of no other reason.
Then why we even have custom diff names feature? It looks cool for most of mappers, and lots of players likes it.
Makar
osu! Alumni
2,258 posts
Joined February 2011
Makar

apaffy wrote:

Makar wrote:

Telling others to look at star rating or max score is not a valid point, because you can not see this in multiplayer lobby.
Why not fix this (and the star rating in general), instead of once again taking away mapping freedom?
You are in the wrong forum. 4
Besides, it's annoying to have to look at other sources to find this out. See what I said before.
Mappers are free to do whatever they want. Nothing is stopping you from doing this anyway besides a scoreboard on your map.

Kodora wrote:

Makar wrote:

Yes. A difficulty name is meant to identify the difficulty level, not the mapper name. Mapper1's Hard is okay, but Mapper1 is not. Telling others to look at star rating or max score is not a valid point, because you can not see this in multiplayer lobby. Do not expect others to assume the difficulty level even though it might be some "tradition" - new players will not know these "traditions"
You always can open site to look at Creator's Words.
We was have these tradition for years and already have huge amount of ranked maps with diff names like that (and it's not something really hurtful - also, new players will knew that "tradition" just by looking at already ranked maps -most of them are most played and well-known).
This is terribly annoying.

Kodora wrote:

Makar wrote:

Don't use previous maps or situations to justify something being okay. I think you got this reverse: It is polite to at least include the -creator- in the description. Why prioritize mapper instead of difficulty level for a difficulty name?
Because mapper is main person who contributed to mapset. Having his name as difficulty name help identify his style and just looks cool (0108 diffs for example).
His name is in the "Creator" box. The guest difficulty mappers are in the description. The name of the mapper is in no way helpful and is only for epeen.
Stefan
Global Moderator
10,407 posts
Joined January 2011
Stefan

Tsukuyomi wrote:

yeah Insane-related is enough

but you can see Insane-related is not accepted

lacking of the diff name has a gradual affection,tell mapper your diff is a diff which is standardized，standardized，and standardized
You completely ignored my post's point.

Kodora wrote:

Stefan wrote:

The Name Spread looks immense inconsistent due the transition from Normal > Hard.
There are two hard diffs, feel free to choose easier one.
And how is this possible to read that out without any hints?


I even didn't know that there are two Hard Diffs (I thought there are two Insanes).
Kodora
Topic Starter
Kodora

Makar wrote:

This is terribly annoying.
So, only multiplayer lobby is real problem? Just wondering, how many people count it that problematic to completely disallowing having custom diff names in mapset?

Stefan wrote:

And how is this possible to read that out without any hints?
Can be easily fixed by posting in creator's words. Sadly it was ranked without it, but it can be easily changed without unranking.

if it's that problem then any BAT can edit creator's words to fix that.
Last edited by Kodora , edited 1 time in total.
Makar
osu! Alumni
2,258 posts
Joined February 2011
Makar
Why don't you answer why using <username>'s <level> is a bad thing? We've said plenty of reasons to use this method already.

Why is "Rin" better than "Rin's Insane" or "Skystar" is better than "Skystar's Extra" or whatever?
Natsu
8,076 posts
Joined September 2012
Natsu
Just a quick question then I should rename all the diffs in my x'mas map too https://osu.ppy.sh/s/129548 o.O?
Broccoly
1,359 posts
Joined May 2012
Broccoly
k a few points I want to make

Makar wrote:

Broccoly wrote:

So this goes for all difficulties or just Hard and below?
All.

The purpose of a difficulty name is to identify the difficulty level, not the creator.
Well if the difficulties under Insane are all labeled as 'Mapper's Which Difficulty', it is pretty obvious that the remaining difficulties are insane or higher (under the assumption that the rule has changed so that we have to name easier difficulties that way) ex: https://osu.ppy.sh/s/51972 or https://osu.ppy.sh/s/55537 and many more
I think it's reasonable to allow freedom in diff names at least for insane or higher.

Also, how about the diff names like these: https://osu.ppy.sh/s/111531 ?
Since the star rating identifies the difficulty level in this case, can they use names like those?
Need some clarification here.
Last edited by Broccoly , edited 1 time in total.
Makar
osu! Alumni
2,258 posts
Joined February 2011
Makar

Natsu wrote:

Just a quick question then I should rename all the diffs in my x'mas map too https://osu.ppy.sh/s/129548 o.O?
Yes
Kodora
Topic Starter
Kodora

Makar wrote:

Why don't you answer why using <username>'s <level> is a bad thing? We've said plenty of reasons to use this method already.
That's not a bad thing. But having completely unique diff name looks more cool, and makes map looks different from others (i can give tons of examples if it needs).

That's creativity point, and disallowing that is rather bad change than good.
GoldenWolf
2,983 posts
Joined May 2012
GoldenWolf
What about using words like "woof" as diffname? Is it invalid too?

Makar wrote:

coolness is invalid
"no fun allowed"
Last edited by GoldenWolf , edited 1 time in total.
Kodora
Topic Starter
Kodora

Makar wrote:

Tradition and coolness is invalid.
Why? That's something what only makes this game more cool and popular.
Makar
osu! Alumni
2,258 posts
Joined February 2011
Makar
You guys misunderstood me when I said that, but okay.
Stefan
Global Moderator
10,407 posts
Joined January 2011
Stefan

GoldenWolf wrote:

What about using words like "woof" as diffname? Is it invalid too?
Making something like Easy > Normal > Hard > woof > WOOF WOOF would be bad and non-logical. Good idiotic example: https://osu.ppy.sh/s/33084 (Sad how I always can use my maps as terrible examples. orz)

Kodora wrote:

That's creativity point, and disallowing that is rather bad change than good.
By all respect putting the own user name as Difficulty name is not creative. 0108 isn't too but things like Carnival0108 is.
GoldenWolf
2,983 posts
Joined May 2012
GoldenWolf

Stefan wrote:

Making something like Easy > Normal > Hard > woof > WOOF WOOF would be bad and non-logical. Good idiotic example: https://osu.ppy.sh/s/33084 (Sad how I always can use my maps as terrible examples. orz)
I find it nice and cool, this makes sense and I can immediately guess which diff is the hardest/easiest, I don't see why something like that should be changed.

edit: Does everything has to be changed to standards Easy/Normal/Hard/Insane/Lunatic/Extra... Well, in fact, what are the standards even? What kind of name would you allow as a "valid" diffname?
Last edited by GoldenWolf , edited 1 time in total.
Kinomi
1,229 posts
Joined August 2012
Kinomi
hue,actually this change can change nothing,when people see A's Insane and B's Insane in a map he still can't say which is more diffcult
Stefan
Global Moderator
10,407 posts
Joined January 2011
Stefan

GoldenWolf wrote:

I find it nice and cool, this makes sense and I can immediately guess which diff is the hardest/easiest, I don't see why something like that should be changed.
And now put a random mapper (let's take Andrea, hi andrea) and the map is about a Love Story. In short: that the custom Difficulty names are completely unrelated from the Artist nor source/song. Can you still explain me the sense?
Kodora
Topic Starter
Kodora

Stefan wrote:

By all respect putting the own user name as Difficulty name is not creative. 0108 isn't too but things like Carnival0108 is.
Seems like this not allowed anymore either.
Nyquill
osu! Alumni
1,781 posts
Joined February 2011
Nyquill

apaffy wrote:

Makar wrote:

Telling others to look at star rating or max score is not a valid point, because you can not see this in multiplayer lobby.
Why not fix this (and the star rating in general)

Tsukuyomi wrote:

hue,actually this change can change nothing,when people see A's Insane and B's Insane in a map he still can't say which is more diffcult
These are actually other problems we need to look into.

At any rate, diffuculty names go by stigma. Another diffuculties are known to be harder than hyper because it is stigmatized as harder.

However, creator names aren't necessarily stigmatized, unless you are prepared to tag your name with every beyond extra diff in every set.

Right now judging spread is diffucult, but we really don't need to add to that diffuculty.

Along with this rule change, I suggest stronger enforcement of spread -> diff name relation.

Though, I think exceptions should be allowed for certain cases because a deviation within a diff spread that has otherwise consistent diffuculty names are often stigmatized as the hardest diffuculty. Perhaps with the new rule, we can look to accomadate this?
Broccoly
1,359 posts
Joined May 2012
Broccoly

Nyquill wrote:

Though, I think exceptions should be allowed for certain cases because a deviation within a diff spread that has otherwise consistent diffuculty names are often stigmatized as the hardest diffuculty.
Sounds cool.
finally some answers to my question
Makar
osu! Alumni
2,258 posts
Joined February 2011
Makar
Mmm.. I like Nyquill's proprosal. The only problem I see with that though is that in order to really determine it's difficulty, you have to use the other difficulties as a reference (using for example, Stefan's map). In multiplayer lobby you cannot do this, but again a fix for this belongs in a different forum.
[Luanny]
8,248 posts
Joined April 2011
[Luanny]
I totally agree with this rule
but are we allowed to use stuff like "Relaxing" "Challenge" "Advanced" and stuff?
Kodora
Topic Starter
Kodora

Makar wrote:

In multiplayer lobby you cannot do this, but again a fix for this belongs in a different forum.
You cannot identify how hard is map without proper playing it, just sayin'.

Some insanes may plays like soft hards while some hards like insanes.

Also, every song may have insane diff, but they all will plays completely different.

[Luanny] wrote:

but are we allowed to use stuff like "Relaxing" "Challenge" "Advanced" and stuff?
No, we aren't

huehue
Broccoly
1,359 posts
Joined May 2012
Broccoly

[Luanny] wrote:

I totally agree with this rule
but are we allowed to use stuff like "Relaxing" "Challenge" "Advanced" and stuff?
yeah and how about "Lunatic" used in Touhou related maps?
Last edited by Broccoly , edited 1 time in total.
Nyquill
osu! Alumni
1,781 posts
Joined February 2011
Nyquill

[Luanny] wrote:

I totally agree with this rule
but are we allowed to use stuff like "Relaxing" "Challenge" "Advanced" and stuff?
Those diff names have established stigma, and are honestly self explanatory, so I would say yes they are allowed.
Sakura
osu! Alumni
7,979 posts
Joined March 2010
Sakura
I don't think the rule is as strict as "You have to use Easy, Normal, Hard Insane for difficulty names"

But something like "You have to use something measurable for difficulty names"

So i'd think that if you want to have 2 difficulties and name one sprout and another tree, it's obvious that tree is harder, with just a mapper name this difference isn't as obvious.
Makar
osu! Alumni
2,258 posts
Joined February 2011
Makar

Nyquill wrote:

[Luanny] wrote:

I totally agree with this rule
but are we allowed to use stuff like "Relaxing" "Challenge" "Advanced" and stuff?
Those diff names have established stigma, and are honestly self explanatory, so I would say yes they are allowed.

Sakura wrote:

I don't think the rule is as strict as "You have to use Easy, Normal, Hard Insane for difficulty names"

But something like "You have to use something measurable for difficulty names"

So i'd think that if you want to have 2 difficulties and name one sprout and another tree, it's obvious that tree is harder, with just a mapper name this difference isn't as obvious.
I agree with this.
Timorisu
771 posts
Joined November 2012
Timorisu
So this wouldn't be allowed?

Also totally agreeing with Sakura.
[Luanny]
8,248 posts
Joined April 2011
[Luanny]
well then I'm totally agree with this rule
Diffname is diffname, not mappername o.o I thought that was obvious
Nyquill
osu! Alumni
1,781 posts
Joined February 2011
Nyquill
Actually I am certain peppy was just misinterpreted. He never said no custom names period, just have them distinguishable. If you apply stigma rules and what sakura just said there, only a handful of maps will be affected.
xChippy
1,941 posts
Joined August 2011
xChippy
Btw a quick question, What about maps going for approval owo? how are we going to name those OAO?
If it's totally irrelevant ignore me owo /me runs
Nyquill
osu! Alumni
1,781 posts
Joined February 2011
Nyquill
Approval maps have no spread, imo they are exempt IF AND ONLY IF they only use one diff (which is the hardest diff anyways).

A lot of this actually comes down to if rating can be fixed actually... if not then we're going to have to use scalar names only regardless of established norms.
Kodora
Topic Starter
Kodora
what about cases like this or that

Mappers didn't used here own usernames as difficulty names, but have custom diffnames at hardest diffs.
Is this disallowed?
Scorpiour
2,633 posts
Joined May 2011
Scorpiour
and what about diff refers to other MUG

Relaxing Basic Beginner Standard Hyper Advanced Another Extreme Extra (stage) Lunatic Extra SHD

and also Collab since there's sometime Collab Hard & Collab Insane

also some special names like

Challange Exceed Maximum Ultimate .. and so on
Sakura
osu! Alumni
7,979 posts
Joined March 2010
Sakura
"Last Spell" for anyone with touhou knowledge that should be obvious that's the hardest, but the issue would be for people without touhou knowledge
"Lament" doesn't look like anything like a diff name and is completely unrelated to the others (maybe im missing flavor knowledge?)

fwiw Lunatic in place of Insane on touhou i'd find it fine since it fits the theme and most people know the 4 basic difficulties in touhou anyways.
Kodora
Topic Starter
Kodora
also this and that too
Last edited by Kodora , edited 1 time in total.
Nyquill
osu! Alumni
1,781 posts
Joined February 2011
Nyquill
sakura you should read my post about stigma :p

Nyquill wrote:

Though, I think exceptions should be allowed for certain cases because a deviation within a diff spread that has otherwise consistent diffuculty names are often stigmatized as the hardest diffuculty. Perhaps with the new rule, we can look to accomadate this?
Irreversible
osu! Alumni
4,315 posts
Joined December 2011
Irreversible
....I don't understand that as well tbh.

Even if you're new, you'll get used to the names, as Long as the LOWER diffs stay regular. The hardest diffs should really be allowed to have custom diffs such as [Name] or [Name]'s [SpecialAddition]

Why not keeping it like this, People like that too much as if we should put a rule on that.
Makar
osu! Alumni
2,258 posts
Joined February 2011
Makar

Scorpiour wrote:

and what about diff refers to other MUG

Basic Beginner Standard Hyper Advanced Another Extreme Extra (stage) Lunatic Extra SHD
Can't understand this; might want to reword. Not sure if this is a question or what the question is...

Scorpiour wrote:

and also Collab since there's sometime Collab Hard & Collab Insane
Should be Collab Insane or Collab Hard, as you said. Not just "Collab"
Nyquill
osu! Alumni
1,781 posts
Joined February 2011
Nyquill

Makar wrote:

Scorpiour wrote:

and what about diff refers to other MUG

Basic Beginner Standard Hyper Advanced Another Extreme Extra (stage) Lunatic Extra SHD
Can't understand this; might want to reword. Not sure if this is a question or what the question is...

Scorpiour wrote:

and also Collab since there's sometime Collab Hard & Collab Insane
Should be Collab Insane or Collab Hard, as you said. Not just "Collab"
He means what about games that come from other music games.

Which.... I covered with my post.
Scorpiour
2,633 posts
Joined May 2011
Scorpiour
and then what about Taiko diff names since words Kanta, Futsuu, Muzukashii & Oni are not english it is also confused many new players.

and About mania since there's different key count , do we need change them to something like 7K Hard, 5K Insane, 8K Insane..etc
Makar
osu! Alumni
2,258 posts
Joined February 2011
Makar

Scorpiour wrote:

and then what about Taiko diff names since words Kanta, Futsuu, Muzukashii & Oni are not english it is also confused many new players.
Nyquill covered this already

Scorpiour wrote:

and About mania since there's different key count , do we need change them to something like 7K Hard, 5K Insane, 8K Insane..etc
I thought key count was auto included...? or something
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