as if meta jump maps didn't have those too lolKroytz wrote:
I'm still on the fence about a 1.0* diff spike within a 3 second time period...
forum
Inferi - The Promethean Kings
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Total Posts
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hey mazzerin
are you sure that part from 05:21:035 - and to end of song is a 1/4?
i think that this part is a 1/6, really, and also time sugnature is 4/4
BPM is 118.667 for 1/6, just in case
(i noticed that last greenline in 05:58:450 - with this new timing does not dock on 1 ms (idk why). For reminder)
and add the same timing section in 04:30:474 -
also, i want to say about few minor errors in your map (actually especially nothing to say, because mazzerin ye)
streams is fucking masterpiece
good luck
are you sure that part from 05:21:035 - and to end of song is a 1/4?
i think that this part is a 1/6, really, and also time sugnature is 4/4
BPM is 118.667 for 1/6, just in case
(i noticed that last greenline in 05:58:450 - with this new timing does not dock on 1 ms (idk why). For reminder)
and add the same timing section in 04:30:474 -
also, i want to say about few minor errors in your map (actually especially nothing to say, because mazzerin ye)
mod
00:59:905 (9) - 01:00:749 (3) - bad overlap, move (3) left, or unstack this kicksliders
01:06:140 (1) - maybe add finish? (on start of repeat)
01:11:534 (1) - ^
01:16:927 (1) - ^
01:22:320 (1) - ^
01:22:658 (2,3) - located too close
01:23:669 (1,3) - bad overlap
01:30:411 (9) - nc?
01:33:107 (9) - ^
01:43:894 (1) - stack start of kickslider with end of kickslider 01:42:882 (1) -
01:44:399 (2) - 01:45:411 (3) - stack
01:49:118 (1,2) - make here same notes as in 01:48:613 (1,2) - (copy it), because this notes (01:48:613 (1,2) - ) looks lonely
01:51:815 (7,3) - oooh too close
01:55:185 (5) - maybe stack end of kickslider with end of 01:54:006 (1) - ?
01:59:821 (5) - 02:00:663 (3) - stack
02:12:545 (5) - make here same kickslider as 02:11:534 (1) - because (1) looks lonely due own shape. Also, put nc in 02:12:545 (5) -
02:16:590 (5) - nc
02:18:865 (1,2) - here is absolutely same sounds, i dont see reason for this emphasize (except position sounds on ticks), and also repeat 02:18:612 (3) - looks lonely, make on 02:18:865 (1,2) -place repeat
02:19:286 (1,1) - too close, fir it pls
03:00:073 (1) - maybe ctrl+j? for better flow
03:04:792 (1,2) - bad overlap
03:15:253 (2) - 03:16:176 (1) - problems with stack?
03:49:060 (1) - make sure that start of stream stood exactly in the middle of stream piece 03:48:599 (1,2,3,4,1) - (move 03:49:060 (1) - and next stream to 158 217)
03:55:176 (1) - 03:55:983 (1) - fix overlap
04:00:137 (1) - stack start of repeat with end of kickslider 03:59:099 (1) -
04:11:934 (1) - stack start of kickslider with note 04:11:176 (12) -
04:14:631 (1,2) - are you sure that (2) will be good read? with same spacing between 1/8 04:14:631 (1,2) -and 1/4 04:14:715 (2,3) - . And also 1/8 repeat 04:13:620 (1) - looks lonely. Make on 04:14:631 (1,2) - another 1/8 repeat and also unstack this repeat and 04:14:799 (2,3,1) -
04:30:474 (1) - 04:30:979 (1) - 04:31:485 (1) - maybe make here kicksliders?
04:51:878 (2) - 04:52:383 (1) - bad overlap
05:11:428 (6,2) - same as above, make overlap batter (move kickslider up for example)
05:34:855 (2) - 05:35:698 (1) - overlap
05:45:052 (4,5,6) - maybe curve this stream piece to cotrast with curve stream 05:45:304 (1,2,3,4,5,6) - ?
05:53:310 (6,1) - hmm its werid that you separate streams with different combo (05:52:383 (1,2,3,4,5,6,1,2,3,4,5,6) - for example), but here you dont separate different combo. Pls unstack (6) and (1)
end of mod~
01:06:140 (1) - maybe add finish? (on start of repeat)
01:11:534 (1) - ^
01:16:927 (1) - ^
01:22:320 (1) - ^
01:22:658 (2,3) - located too close
01:23:669 (1,3) - bad overlap
01:30:411 (9) - nc?
01:33:107 (9) - ^
01:43:894 (1) - stack start of kickslider with end of kickslider 01:42:882 (1) -
01:44:399 (2) - 01:45:411 (3) - stack
01:49:118 (1,2) - make here same notes as in 01:48:613 (1,2) - (copy it), because this notes (01:48:613 (1,2) - ) looks lonely
01:51:815 (7,3) - oooh too close
01:55:185 (5) - maybe stack end of kickslider with end of 01:54:006 (1) - ?
01:59:821 (5) - 02:00:663 (3) - stack
02:12:545 (5) - make here same kickslider as 02:11:534 (1) - because (1) looks lonely due own shape. Also, put nc in 02:12:545 (5) -
02:16:590 (5) - nc
02:18:865 (1,2) - here is absolutely same sounds, i dont see reason for this emphasize (except position sounds on ticks), and also repeat 02:18:612 (3) - looks lonely, make on 02:18:865 (1,2) -place repeat
02:19:286 (1,1) - too close, fir it pls
03:00:073 (1) - maybe ctrl+j? for better flow
03:04:792 (1,2) - bad overlap
03:15:253 (2) - 03:16:176 (1) - problems with stack?
03:49:060 (1) - make sure that start of stream stood exactly in the middle of stream piece 03:48:599 (1,2,3,4,1) - (move 03:49:060 (1) - and next stream to 158 217)
03:55:176 (1) - 03:55:983 (1) - fix overlap
04:00:137 (1) - stack start of repeat with end of kickslider 03:59:099 (1) -
04:11:934 (1) - stack start of kickslider with note 04:11:176 (12) -
04:14:631 (1,2) - are you sure that (2) will be good read? with same spacing between 1/8 04:14:631 (1,2) -and 1/4 04:14:715 (2,3) - . And also 1/8 repeat 04:13:620 (1) - looks lonely. Make on 04:14:631 (1,2) - another 1/8 repeat and also unstack this repeat and 04:14:799 (2,3,1) -
04:30:474 (1) - 04:30:979 (1) - 04:31:485 (1) - maybe make here kicksliders?
04:51:878 (2) - 04:52:383 (1) - bad overlap
05:11:428 (6,2) - same as above, make overlap batter (move kickslider up for example)
05:34:855 (2) - 05:35:698 (1) - overlap
05:45:052 (4,5,6) - maybe curve this stream piece to cotrast with curve stream 05:45:304 (1,2,3,4,5,6) - ?
05:53:310 (6,1) - hmm its werid that you separate streams with different combo (05:52:383 (1,2,3,4,5,6,1,2,3,4,5,6) - for example), but here you dont separate different combo. Pls unstack (6) and (1)
end of mod~
streams is fucking masterpiece
good luck
i think it'll be just fineKroytz wrote:
I'm still on the fence about a 1.0* diff spike within a 3 second time period...
Topic Starter
strategas real life mod
01:35:130 (1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1) - changed a bit to make it more neat
02:19:286 (1,2,3,4,1) - made more even
02:46:421 (4,5,6,1,2,1,2,1,2) - changed patern placement
02:55:017 (1,2,1,2,1,2) - buffed to make it more consistant
03:25:983 (1,2) - from repeat to slider circle
03:34:753 (4,5) - unstack
04:16:316 (1) - to 04:31:990 (1) - changed this section to emphasize some notes better
04:55:754 (1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,2,3,4,5,6,1) - made more even
05:31:147 (1,2,3,1,2,3,1,2,3,1,2,3,1,2,3) - changed some of these to make them more consistant
05:21:540 (1) - 05:22:552 (1) - spacing emphasis snares on every one of these
05:45:220 (6,1) - reduced jumpstream spacing
05:53:394 (1) - moved note and removed spinner
stack leniency from 3 to 2
fixed some hitsounds
fixed various spacing errors
02:19:286 (1,2,3,4,1) - made more even
02:46:421 (4,5,6,1,2,1,2,1,2) - changed patern placement
02:55:017 (1,2,1,2,1,2) - buffed to make it more consistant
03:25:983 (1,2) - from repeat to slider circle
03:34:753 (4,5) - unstack
04:16:316 (1) - to 04:31:990 (1) - changed this section to emphasize some notes better
04:55:754 (1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,2,3,4,5,6,1) - made more even
05:31:147 (1,2,3,1,2,3,1,2,3,1,2,3,1,2,3) - changed some of these to make them more consistant
05:21:540 (1) - 05:22:552 (1) - spacing emphasis snares on every one of these
05:45:220 (6,1) - reduced jumpstream spacing
05:53:394 (1) - moved note and removed spinner
stack leniency from 3 to 2
fixed some hitsounds
fixed various spacing errors
Remember to respond to DaniilLillifag's mod, I'll recheck over the weekend.
Topic Starter
BPM is correct. Had the same happen in Fast Paced Society - your green line with the new timing won't fit in because the timing is .(6), it will start being delayed eventually. That's simply because .(6) doesn't exist in music afaik, it just simply makes no sense.DaniilLillifag wrote:
hey mazzerin
are you sure that part from 05:21:035 - and to end of song is a 1/4?
i think that this part is a 1/6, really, and also time sugnature is 4/4
BPM is 118.667 for 1/6, just in case
(i noticed that last greenline in 05:58:450 - with this new timing does not dock on 1 ms (idk why). For reminder)
and add the same timing section in 04:30:474 -
also, i want to say about few minor errors in your map (actually especially nothing to say, because mazzerin ye)mod00:59:905 (9) - 01:00:749 (3) - bad overlap, move (3) left, or unstack this kicksliders
01:06:140 (1) - maybe add finish? (on start of repeat)
01:11:534 (1) - ^
01:16:927 (1) - ^
01:22:320 (1) - ^
01:22:658 (2,3) - located too close
01:23:669 (1,3) - bad overlap
01:30:411 (9) - nc?
01:33:107 (9) - ^
01:43:894 (1) - stack start of kickslider with end of kickslider 01:42:882 (1) -
01:44:399 (2) - 01:45:411 (3) - stack
01:49:118 (1,2) - make here same notes as in 01:48:613 (1,2) - (copy it), because this notes (01:48:613 (1,2) - ) looks lonely
01:51:815 (7,3) - oooh too close
01:55:185 (5) - maybe stack end of kickslider with end of 01:54:006 (1) - ?
01:59:821 (5) - 02:00:663 (3) - stack
02:12:545 (5) - make here same kickslider as 02:11:534 (1) - because (1) looks lonely due own shape. Also, put nc in 02:12:545 (5) -
02:16:590 (5) - nc
02:18:865 (1,2) - here is absolutely same sounds, i dont see reason for this emphasize (except position sounds on ticks), and also repeat 02:18:612 (3) - looks lonely, make on 02:18:865 (1,2) -place repeat
02:19:286 (1,1) - too close, fir it pls
03:00:073 (1) - maybe ctrl+j? for better flow
03:04:792 (1,2) - bad overlap
03:15:253 (2) - 03:16:176 (1) - problems with stack?
03:49:060 (1) - make sure that start of stream stood exactly in the middle of stream piece 03:48:599 (1,2,3,4,1) - (move 03:49:060 (1) - and next stream to 158 217)
03:55:176 (1) - 03:55:983 (1) - fix overlap
04:00:137 (1) - stack start of repeat with end of kickslider 03:59:099 (1) -
04:11:934 (1) - stack start of kickslider with note 04:11:176 (12) -
04:14:631 (1,2) - are you sure that (2) will be good read? with same spacing between 1/8 04:14:631 (1,2) -and 1/4 04:14:715 (2,3) - . And also 1/8 repeat 04:13:620 (1) - looks lonely. Make on 04:14:631 (1,2) - another 1/8 repeat and also unstack this repeat and 04:14:799 (2,3,1) -
04:30:474 (1) - 04:30:979 (1) - 04:31:485 (1) - maybe make here kicksliders?
04:51:878 (2) - 04:52:383 (1) - bad overlap
05:11:428 (6,2) - same as above, make overlap batter (move kickslider up for example)
05:34:855 (2) - 05:35:698 (1) - overlap
05:45:052 (4,5,6) - maybe curve this stream piece to cotrast with curve stream 05:45:304 (1,2,3,4,5,6) - ?
05:53:310 (6,1) - hmm its werid that you separate streams with different combo (05:52:383 (1,2,3,4,5,6,1,2,3,4,5,6) - for example), but here you dont separate different combo. Pls unstack (6) and (1)
end of mod~
streams is fucking masterpiece
good luck
Every overlap you linked is fine to me, the timespaces between them are just too long to be worth "fixing", it would ruin absolute spacing in lots of places, not to mention it can't even be seen in the editor most of the time, not to mention the fact it's AR10.
1/8 sliders play just like 1/4 sliders - meaning that 1/4 sliders play as 1/2s, while 1/8s play as 1/4s. You don't have to read anything, you just keep streaming at the same finger/cursor speed without worrying.
The NC's/Finishers you suggested are fine I guess, but I already follow a consistent pattern which doesn't require any extra NCs there so I won't apply them.
04:30:474 (1) - didn't add kicksliders here cause I think that emphasizes the rhythmic guitar better this way, someone already suggested that as well.
02:18:865 (1,2) - got snare drums there unlike on 02:18:612 (3) - , which is why it's mapped differently.
I did change this point with the stream blanket though 03:49:060 (1) -
I'm a fan, I really am, but that spike in difficulty in the solo does not correspond to the spike in difficulty in the song. Everything corresponds (ie spacing in a stream matches oscillating guitar line) but it corresponds in the manner a Silynn or Snow Rabbit map corresponds. It's way over the top. This is a technical death metal song; all of it is hard, not just the solo.
I originally wrote a more in-depth mod but there isn't really a point. It boils down to just nerf the spacing on the first solo across the board. It does not accurately reflect the change in the song. Mathematically speaking, you've used a different constant for this portion of the song's difficulty than for the rest of it. Sure, a solo can be harder, but this solo is not this much harder.
Aside from that I love the map; shifting beat divisor streams (and I love your sense of stream flow), tasteful use of sliders, interesting jump patterns... all lovely. The solo is just too stark a contrast. Of course, the alternative to achieving parity by nerfing the solo would be bringing the rest of the map up to its level...
t. opinionated 40k nobody
ps/edit: yeah sure pp mappers pull this shit all the time, but you're better than that and I think you're lazying out with this. fairly or not, you get held to a higher standard (because you can meet it)
I originally wrote a more in-depth mod but there isn't really a point. It boils down to just nerf the spacing on the first solo across the board. It does not accurately reflect the change in the song. Mathematically speaking, you've used a different constant for this portion of the song's difficulty than for the rest of it. Sure, a solo can be harder, but this solo is not this much harder.
Aside from that I love the map; shifting beat divisor streams (and I love your sense of stream flow), tasteful use of sliders, interesting jump patterns... all lovely. The solo is just too stark a contrast. Of course, the alternative to achieving parity by nerfing the solo would be bringing the rest of the map up to its level...
t. opinionated 40k nobody
ps/edit: yeah sure pp mappers pull this shit all the time, but you're better than that and I think you're lazying out with this. fairly or not, you get held to a higher standard (because you can meet it)
Let's be honest here, determining the difficulty of a specific part of the song is influenced by opinion, so there's no reason why Mazzerin's way of mapping the solo would be wrong. It's just his interpretation of the intensity spike (which is actually a really huge spike if you ask me; BPM rises from like 168 to 260, guitar has a huge speed spike, etc.)Varqaaa wrote:
I'm a fan, I really am, but that spike in difficulty in the solo does not correspond to the spike in difficulty in the song. Everything corresponds (ie spacing in a stream matches oscillating guitar line) but it corresponds in the manner a Silynn or Snow Rabbit map corresponds. It's way over the top. This is a technical death metal song; all of it is hard, not just the solo.
I originally wrote a more in-depth mod but there isn't really a point. It boils down to just nerf the spacing on the first solo across the board. It does not accurately reflect the change in the song. Mathematically speaking, you've used a different constant for this portion of the song's difficulty than for the rest of it. Sure, a solo can be harder, but this solo is not this much harder.
Aside from that I love the map; shifting beat divisor streams (and I love your sense of stream flow), tasteful use of sliders, interesting jump patterns... all lovely. The solo is just too stark a contrast. Of course, the alternative to achieving parity by nerfing the solo would be bringing the rest of the map up to its level...
t. opinionated 40k nobody
ps/edit: yeah sure pp mappers pull this shit all the time, but you're better than that and I think you're lazying out with this. fairly or not, you get held to a higher standard (because you can meet it)
It's not just the guitar either, listen to the drums as well. The intensity of the song skyrockets which is personally why I think the spike fits pretty well.MCB wrote:
Let's be honest here, determining the difficulty of a specific part of the song is influenced by opinion, so there's no reason why Mazzerin's way of mapping the solo would be wrong. It's just his interpretation of the intensity spike (which is actually a really huge spike if you ask me; BPM rises from like 168 to 260, guitar has a huge speed spike, etc.)
this is correctMCB wrote:
Let's be honest here, determining the difficulty of a specific part of the song is influenced by opinion,
this is notMCB wrote:
so there's no reason why Mazzerin's way of mapping the solo would be wrong.
It takes two to map. Mapping is not done in a vacuum; the mapping is an interpretation of the music that already exists. It must be cohesive with the rest of the music and the rest of the map. Scorpiour has a fantastic post on this somewhere.
You can quantify why his mapping of the solo is overblown in comparison to the rest of the map. If all of the map were mapped at that level, sure it'd be fine. His interpretation of the solo works, it just doesn't work in the context of the map he has made because it departs too starkly from his interpretation of the rest of the map. It's like the rest of the song was designed as a "medium" and this is a "lunatic" for no apparent reason (to use an exaggerated example in order to hopefully make my point clearer).
He isn't mapping predominantly to the drums, he's mapping to the guitar line. If he wanted to reflect the higher bpm for the drumline he'd do more fat 260 bpm streaming. Instead he (correctly in my opinion) chooses to focus on the dominant guitar line, reflecting the movement with increased spacing. My complaint is that difficulty in the guitar part for this piece is not the huge jump in difficulty he makes it out to be[TommyB] wrote:
It's not just the guitar either, listen to the drums as well. The intensity of the song skyrockets which is personally why I think the spike fits pretty well.
Topic Starter
You can compare the 260 bpm to the rest of the map all you want, I will keep comparing it to the rest of the song.Varqaaa wrote:
You can quantify why his mapping of the solo is overblown in comparison to the rest of the map. If all of the map were mapped at that level, sure it'd be fine. His interpretation of the solo works, it just doesn't work in the context of the map he has made because it departs too starkly from his interpretation of the rest of the map. It's like the rest of the song was designed as a "medium" and this is a "lunatic" for no apparent reason (to use an exaggerated example in order to hopefully make my point clearer).
1) Let's start with the actual intensity musically, since you said it's 'mathematically wrong' as well.
1. The song goes from 178 bpm to 260 bpm for 45 seconds in a 6 minute song. How do you expect me to map the rest in 9*? If the map was 8*, how do you expect me to map at 8* in the 178 bpm parts while the 260 bpm part was 8*? How about 5*? See my point?
2. There's no point in the song where drums are that aggressive at the same time with having extremely high pitch guitar, literally it's not even close to how insane that part is musically compared to the rest of the song.
2) Mapping/playability points:
1. Whole 260 bpm part is centered around the hard jump part. You can see there are less spaced parts pretty often such as 03:40:753 (1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2) - 03:36:599 (1,2,3) - 03:37:753 (1,2,1) - 03:39:137 (1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2) - 03:44:445 (1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2) - 03:48:830 (1,2,1) - 03:52:522 (1,2) - 03:59:907 (1,2,1) -
all are spaced depending on how intense they are, but some are quite close to the max DS or even exceed it, however it doesn't last for long because it's simply not the same spike.
2. Why do you think the 178 parts are that easy? They've got literally everything milked out of them, the 2nd solo and the ending have such brutal patterns/spacing variations it's not even funny, they're hard technically, while the 260 bpm part is hard mechanically. If it were the opposite, it would be a 7* map and everyone would be happy and never complain because technical patterns are always SIGNIFICANTLY underrated compared to mechanical ones, especially when paired with a low bpm technical pattern vs high bpm mechanical pattern. Side note: OF COURSE the 9 star part is still harder than all those technical patterns, BUT it is THE spike, not just a musical spike that the song has more than a 100 times. That's the point: highlight the spike.
3. The jumps build up very well. What the hell do you suggest me to do? I've already nerfed the build up so many times there's just nothing to nerf anymore because the effect of a buildup will be gone. Compare 03:28:407 (1,2) - vs the highest pitch jumps 03:28:753 (1,2) - https://osu.ppy.sh/ss/6224959 - then compare those smaller ones to the ones before, and so on until you get to 03:27:137 (1,2) - . I'm not nerfing the most intense part because what's wrong with using high spacing for the most intense part? Then I'd literally have to scale down every other hard part in the map which is just stupid. I'm not nerfing the lowest spacing either because it's already tiny as fuck, as you can see. My point is that they are balanced around the guitar pitch which starts quite low and builds up so high that you simply can't find a moment like that in the song, anywhere, period.
Really, first try to look at the 178 bpm part and 260 bpm part separately, because the bpm changes are extremely significant. Then try to understand that there are small/meaningless jumps like 03:37:983 (1,2,3,4,5,6) - and actual HARD high spacing jump parts like the ones I linked on point 2) 1.
That should be quite clear. Now move on, look at hard parts in the 178 bpm part that have high spacing like 03:12:208 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1) - 02:15:410 (2,1) - 05:07:889 (1,2,1,2,1,2) - . Why aren't you complaining about these? How would you feel if the 260 bpm spike had LOWER spacing than these? That's right, it would be stupid as fuck.
Alright, now, your medium vs lunatic analogy was actually quite good. It's EXACTLY what happens in this map in terms of MECHANICAL skill, because the song speeds up to 260 bpm. Try mapping an easy difficulty for a 178 bpm song then an easy the same way, with the same patterns on a 260 bpm song. What happens? The 260 bpm one is actually 2.5* while the 178 one is 1.5*.
Both the 178 bpm part and the 260 bpm part are pushed to their limits.
I didn't like 1* spike, but that explanation actually really makes sense, nice
sr is just a computer generated number???
Some maps get the short end of the stick with SR. Streams don't bump SR like jumps unless they're spaced. A lot of maps, like Into The Void, should have a WAY higher SR than given. The bot doesn't understand stamina, and that the jump between 120bpm to 130bpm is a LOT easier than the jump from 250bpm to 260bpm, making higher BPM stuff not as high as they should be.bbj0920 wrote:
sr is just a computer generated number???
I guess we'll see how this goes.
TL:DR; Changed HP, did a few minor spacing changes on the front end
TL:DR; Changed HP, did a few minor spacing changes on the front end
Log
14:06 Cryptic: 00:19:625 (1,2,3,4) -
14:06 Cryptic: unoverlap it since it doesn't really look intended
14:07 Mazzerin: oh yeah
14:07 Mazzerin: i'll move by a few pixels
14:07 Cryptic: yeah
14:08 Cryptic: 00:49:457 - I'm assuming since the accent here has a lot of drift you don't want to map it?
14:08 Mazzerin: you mean the background stuff?
14:08 Cryptic: well
14:08 Cryptic: its an accent to the string
14:09 Cryptic: its like
14:09 Cryptic: do do do do dododo
14:09 Mazzerin: ohh like extensions
14:09 Cryptic: mm
14:09 Mazzerin: i think singles are just fine
14:09 Cryptic: Yeah
14:09 Cryptic: It actually only happens there I think
14:09 Cryptic: which is why I brought it up
14:12 Cryptic: 00:21:648 (1,2,3,4) - maybe move the 2,3,4 down a bit since the spacing right now is a bit deceptive compared to the pervious part of the map?
14:12 Cryptic: not very far, like stack the 4 on00:21:058 (5) - or something
14:13 Mazzerin: ok that works
14:14 Cryptic: 00:57:377 (1,2,3,1,2) - I'm a bit worried about this pattern overall, specifically 00:57:547 (2,3) - to 00:57:884 (1,2) - seems a bit too circular
14:14 Cryptic: but also I think that 00:58:052 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9) - this may be overspaced, according to pitch. As in, the 7,8,9 should be lower spaced
14:15 Cryptic: So technically you could probably kill two bords with one stone by just rearranging the pattern slightly
14:15 Mazzerin: which pattern?
14:15 Mazzerin: the first one or the second one?
14:16 Cryptic: Both
14:16 Cryptic: Like, the first needs to probably have a tighter angle into 00:57:884 (1,2,1,2,3) -
14:16 Mazzerin: the circularity is fine, it's a nice triangle in my eyes
14:16 Cryptic: and the second needs less spacing on 00:58:725 (7,8,9) - IMO
14:16 Cryptic: because the pitch starts decreasing there
14:16 Cryptic: as that sounds like a lead-in to 00:59:064 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9) -
14:16 Mazzerin: i can rearrenge it to be even sharper
14:16 Mazzerin: with just changing that one note though
14:16 Cryptic: I was saying even sharper yeah, I think it'd play a tiny bit better if you did that
14:17 Mazzerin: you mean sharper as in from the other side
14:17 Cryptic: 00:57:714 (3,1,2) -
14:17 Mazzerin: or just like more from above
14:17 Mazzerin: instead of completely leading into that
14:17 Cryptic: yeah, I think either would work honestly. Personally, I like the placement of the kick
14:18 Cryptic: actually
14:18 Cryptic: tilt the 2
14:18 Cryptic: upwards
14:18 Cryptic: 00:57:967 (2) -
14:18 Cryptic: this 2
14:18 Cryptic: that should solve it
14:19 Cryptic: because the main thing I'm worried about is when you go from 00:57:714 (3) - to 00:57:884 (1,2) - its really kind of linear so it could just feel clunky
14:19 Mazzerin: wait you meant the lead in to the 00:58:052 (1) - wasn't sharp?
14:19 Cryptic: but moving the 2 up a bit could oslve that
14:19 Mazzerin: oh
14:19 Cryptic: yeah, basically
14:19 Mazzerin: i wanted to have 2 in the followpoint
14:19 Mazzerin: https://osu.ppy.sh/ss/6232011
14:19 Mazzerin: i did that
14:19 Cryptic: That'll work
14:19 Cryptic: nice skin by the way
14:20 Cryptic: 00:58:725 (7) -
14:20 Mazzerin: now what about
14:20 Cryptic: by the way, I just noticed that this wasn't snapped
14:20 Mazzerin: that 7
14:20 Mazzerin: it's broken
14:20 Cryptic: 00:58:388 (4) - neither is this
14:20 Cryptic: o?
14:20 Mazzerin: everythings "not snapped"
14:20 Mazzerin: or a lot of things
14:20 Mazzerin: it's an editor bug
14:20 Cryptic: gotchya
14:21 Mazzerin: gotta use navosu helper app
14:21 Mazzerin: that one shows what is really unsnapped
14:21 Cryptic: mhmm
14:21 Mazzerin: ok so 789
14:21 Mazzerin: what if it's below the 123?
14:22 Cryptic: That'd probably be fine, what do you have in mind?
14:22 Mazzerin: wait i'll actually rearrange the next ones too
14:22 Cryptic: okay
14:25 Mazzerin: https://osu.ppy.sh/ss/6232074 i meant this
14:25 Mazzerin: well that's not down anymore it's even closer but it makes more sense
14:25 Cryptic: yeah
14:25 Cryptic: I like that
14:25 Cryptic: it works
14:26 Cryptic: let me know when you're done w/ that pattern
14:26 Mazzerin: i am done!
14:27 Mazzerin: https://osu.ppy.sh/ss/6232100 the rest is like that
14:27 Mazzerin: moved that next 123 cause it would've been too close
14:27 Cryptic: yeah
14:27 Cryptic: that should be bueno
14:27 Mazzerin: and that makes sense cause it's a new measure+snare
14:28 Cryptic: 01:01:929 (1,2,3) -
14:28 Cryptic: fix your DS please
14:28 Cryptic: also honestly make that curve a tiny bit less sharp
14:28 Cryptic: it'll look better
14:29 Mazzerin: yeah
14:31 Cryptic: 01:14:062 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3) -
14:31 Cryptic: this is really weird flow-wise
14:32 Cryptic: I think some of the things you could do is nerf the DS on 01:14:231 (2,3,4) - as an ode to the different pitch in the BG (even though you're following the drums here)
14:32 Cryptic: 01:14:399 (4,1,2,3,1) -
14:32 Cryptic: but when you look at that specifically it just looks really clunky, even for 178
14:33 Mazzerin: well it's definitely not as hard as some of the patterns around
14:33 Mazzerin: it's just slightly spaced
14:33 Cryptic: sure, theres definitely harder patterns
14:34 Cryptic: I was just saying that this one is kind of hard because of the flow moreso than the spacing
14:34 Mazzerin: so if i nerf 234 that's enough?
14:35 Cryptic: mm, lemme give you a suggestion, hold on
14:35 Cryptic: cuz the 234 really fucks the entire pattern
14:35 Mazzerin: you know sharp flow FROM a stream to a note is good
14:36 Cryptic: Yeah
14:36 Mazzerin: linear flow during a stream where you start from a note to a stream is also fine
14:36 Cryptic: its really how you're basically going down, then left, then backwards, then direclty up
14:37 Cryptic: it plays kind of like a weird drawn out square
14:37 Mazzerin: if it's sharp from circle to stream (stream goes in reverse) it still feels fine but it's usually further away so it's harder (because of visuals, can't place it as close as you could)
14:37 Cryptic: which isn't that great overall
14:37 Mazzerin: oh another thing then
14:37 Mazzerin: when you're inside a stream pattern
14:37 Mazzerin: reset the flow
14:37 Mazzerin: hmm hard to explain
14:37 Cryptic: no i get that
14:37 Mazzerin: think of it as a relaxed/non straining position for your aiming hand
14:38 Mazzerin: it's mostly about reading and moving carefully inside streams
14:38 Mazzerin: not snapping around
14:38 Cryptic: Yeah
14:38 Cryptic: 01:14:399 (4,1,2) -
14:38 Cryptic: but that is a snap
14:38 Mazzerin: so it resets and starts again here 01:14:399 (4) -
14:38 Cryptic: 01:14:062 (1,2,3,4) -
14:38 Mazzerin: yeah it's triangular
14:38 Cryptic: this is fine
14:38 Cryptic: 01:14:399 (4,1,2) - is borderline a right angle
14:38 Cryptic: and then the 01:14:735 (2,3,1) - flows out of the right angle
14:38 Mazzerin: well that's one snap 01:14:062 (1,2) -
14:38 Mazzerin: a right angle?
14:39 Cryptic: I honestly think like having the 2,3,4 with a slightly lower DS and then tilted upwards would probably be a fairly okay solution
14:39 Cryptic: though in all honesty
14:39 Cryptic: its up to you
14:39 Cryptic: This is a really nazi thing of me to point out
14:39 Mazzerin: what if 01:14:399 (4) - was closer?
14:39 Cryptic: so only change it if you agree
14:39 Mazzerin: hmmm i don't even know
14:39 Mazzerin: LOL
14:39 Cryptic: 4 being closer would help
14:40 Mazzerin: i'd rather keep it, this is the least someone will care about
14:40 Mazzerin: it's like taking notes from the slow part
14:40 Cryptic: I kind of did osmething like this: https://puu.sh/rvpor/6a9326032f.png
14:40 Mazzerin: and talking about their angles
14:40 Cryptic: but like
14:40 Cryptic: that ends up taking away a lot of the impact
14:41 Cryptic: 01:35:045 (16,1) -
14:41 Cryptic: the hell
14:42 Mazzerin: you think it's too big?
14:42 Cryptic: Mmm, the transition itself is a bit large, but the biggest issue is the fact that the stream is pointed away from it + the spacing
14:42 Cryptic: if the stream lead into it a bit more
14:42 Mazzerin: things like those are much easier than 01:35:382 (2,1,2,1,2,1,2) - by the way
14:42 Cryptic: (like not as much of a curve away) I could see the distance being better
14:42 Cryptic: yeah I know
14:42 Mazzerin: but the drop down effect is so cool
14:43 Cryptic: it is
14:43 Mazzerin: with the kick
14:43 Cryptic: Yeah, its fine
14:43 Cryptic: you're snapping to a repeat slider
14:43 Mazzerin: yeah
14:43 Mazzerin: you are safe for a bunch of time
14:43 Mazzerin: even if you're off time
14:43 Cryptic: yeah
14:43 Cryptic: a lot of lenience
14:44 Cryptic: 02:26:365 (1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1) -
14:45 Cryptic: this is a cool pattern
14:45 Mazzerin: IT IS GOOD
14:45 Mazzerin: i love it
14:45 Mazzerin: i've never seen anything like it
14:46 Cryptic: 03:14:907 (1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2) -
14:46 Cryptic: I love this solo
14:46 Cryptic: so fucking much
14:47 Mazzerin: the reason why i mapped it
14:47 Cryptic: 03:28:060 (1) - UN-NC it
14:48 Mazzerin: but i'm following a pattern
14:48 Mazzerin: then i would have to un-nc 03:27:137 (1) -
14:48 Mazzerin: 'and 03:27:599 (1) -
14:48 Cryptic: but they're
14:48 Cryptic: 1-2-3's rather than 1-2's musically :c
14:49 Mazzerin: but i grouped it as 1-2 1-2 everywhere
14:49 Mazzerin: including there
14:49 Cryptic: mmm, fine.
14:49 Mazzerin: it's just that that last 2 is missing
14:49 Mazzerin: 03:28:637 (1) -
14:49 Mazzerin: same happens here!
14:49 Cryptic: I know
14:49 Cryptic: I hadn't gotten there yet
14:51 Cryptic: 03:44:445 (1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2) -
14:51 Cryptic: which instrument are you following for the expansion?
14:51 Mazzerin: well the guitar starts screaming
14:51 Mazzerin: the lead one
14:51 Mazzerin: the rhythmic guitar goes up in pitch
14:51 Mazzerin: and the drums are 1/4
14:51 Mazzerin: so it's all mashed up into one increasing pattern
14:51 Cryptic: Yeah
14:51 Cryptic: alright
14:53 Cryptic: eh, that section is tough to sort out musically, I think you did fine
14:53 Cryptic: has anyone played the current iteration of the map by the way?
14:54 Mazzerin: yes talala today
14:54 Mazzerin: and gayz
14:54 Cryptic: Alright
14:54 Cryptic: What did they say?
14:54 Mazzerin: gayz could pass everything but the streams before the jumps
14:55 Mazzerin: and talala couldn't pass the streams but could pass the jumps until sliderjumps
14:55 Mazzerin: so i changed the streams with talala
14:55 Mazzerin: and he passed both the streams and the jumps except the slider jumps
14:55 Mazzerin: the problem was overlaps and that weird triple not sure if you saw it
14:55 Mazzerin: 03:24:368 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3) -
14:55 Mazzerin: this was overlapping
14:55 Mazzerin: so i removed that
14:56 Mazzerin: and there was this triangular triple 03:25:176 (2,3,1) -
14:56 Mazzerin: that gayz complained about
14:56 Mazzerin: but i made it straight
14:56 Mazzerin: talala said he's gonna pass it with luck now hah
14:57 Cryptic: 05:03:170 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4) - why change the folow so much here?
14:57 Cryptic: also, sorry, I was reading that all but I was also looking ahead
14:57 Cryptic: I don't want to make you wait too long
14:57 Mazzerin: sorry for what
14:58 Mazzerin: not talking to me while i was typing a wall?
14:58 Mazzerin: that's fine
14:58 Cryptic: yea
14:58 Mazzerin: it's hard to explain the direction there
14:58 Mazzerin: i just kinda felt like guitar does that
14:58 Mazzerin: i have no idea how to say this
14:58 Mazzerin: but i like how it flows into after that motion 05:03:844 (1,2,3,4,1) -
14:59 Cryptic: See, my only concern with some of these awkward stream jumps and sharp flow changes is the HP 6
14:59 Cryptic: I get that you don't want like 50% acc passes
15:00 Cryptic: but you may need a slightly lower HP
15:00 Cryptic: with some of these stream jumps
15:00 Cryptic: not that one that i mentioned
15:00 Cryptic: just overall
15:00 Mazzerin: hp is tricky to decide
15:00 Mazzerin: it simply makes it more lenient everywhere
15:01 Cryptic: yeah
15:01 Mazzerin: but how lenient do i want it and how lenient does everyone else want it?
15:01 Mazzerin: everyone has a different opinion
15:01 Mazzerin: the top players literally said
15:01 Mazzerin: if you make it lower, it's gonna be easier to pass
15:01 Mazzerin: and well that's true it's simple as that
15:01 Cryptic: Yeah
15:01 Cryptic: thats for sure
15:01 Cryptic: but if people liek talala and gayz who are quite good at your maps are having trouble passing
15:01 Cryptic: wouldn't something like 5.5 or 5 be a bit more reasonable?
15:02 Cryptic: We both know no one will ever pass this with HR, maybe HD, most passes will be HT
15:02 Cryptic: tbh, I'm fine with it being HP 6
15:02 Mazzerin: i'll quickly ask around
15:02 Cryptic: I just see it as being a potential conversation point in a DQ mod
15:03 Mazzerin: mithew says 6
15:03 Mazzerin: broodich says 5.5
15:03 Mazzerin: LOL
15:03 Mazzerin: wait
15:04 Cryptic: ?
15:04 Mazzerin: plz enjoy game will say something as well
15:04 Mazzerin: about the hp
15:04 Cryptic: alright
15:04 Mazzerin: i mean you can keep modding
15:04 Cryptic: I'm gonna start checking HSing
15:05 Mazzerin: aaand he says 5
15:05 Mazzerin: ROFL
15:05 Mazzerin: so we have 5 5.5 and 6
15:05 Cryptic: nah really the only last major complaint I had was the really weird stream flow
15:05 Cryptic: uhm
15:05 Cryptic: split the difference, avg is 55
15:05 Cryptic: *5.5
15:05 Cryptic: ?
15:05 Mazzerin: yeah
15:06 Cryptic: oh
15:06 Cryptic: I did forget
15:06 Cryptic: 05:44:799 (1,2,3,4,5,6,1) -
15:06 Cryptic: I'm not a huge fan of that pattern at all
15:06 Cryptic: I get the spacing musically, but the design seems to be a bit harder than the song really warrants
15:06 Mazzerin: well the jump is barely bigger
15:06 Cryptic: especially the 6>1 at the end there
15:06 Mazzerin: it's almost the same as usual
15:07 Mazzerin: 0.25 difference
15:07 Cryptic: alright
15:07 Cryptic: time for hte "fun" part
15:07 Mazzerin: some guy already checked hitsounds pretty well
15:07 Mazzerin: i also did a few times
15:08 Mazzerin: there might be some missing after changes though
15:09 Cryptic: hmm
15:12 Mazzerin: talala said 5.5-5.7
15:12 Mazzerin: and '5 is too easy'
15:12 Mazzerin: so 5.5 is the best i guess
15:12 Cryptic: yeah
15:12 Cryptic: I'm about halfway through with HSing
15:12 Cryptic: after I finish you can update and then I can recheck the spots that were tinkered and recheck their HSs and the quali
15:13 Cryptic: 03:55:522 (1) -
15:13 Cryptic: defualt hit-whistle??
15:13 Mazzerin: what
15:13 Cryptic: its defualt hit-whistle
15:13 Cryptic: like
15:13 Cryptic: that is
15:13 Cryptic: isn't it mean tto be
15:13 Mazzerin: that's a sound in the song isn't it
15:14 Cryptic: turn music voluem to 0%
15:14 Mazzerin: OH
15:14 Mazzerin: the slider
15:14 Cryptic: yeah
15:14 Mazzerin: nooo
15:14 Mazzerin: the sliderbody has whistle applied to it
15:14 Mazzerin: accidently
15:14 Cryptic: yeah
15:14 Cryptic: thats what I was saying
15:14 Mazzerin: woops
15:18 Cryptic: alright
15:18 Cryptic: the rest is good
15:19 Mazzerin: so i can update
15:19 Cryptic: aye
15:19 Cryptic: you did 5.5 right?
15:19 Mazzerin: yeah
15:19 Cryptic: cool cool
15:19 Cryptic: lemme know when update
15:20 Mazzerin: now
15:20 Mazzerin: it is done
15:20 Cryptic: yep
15:20 Cryptic: checking
15:24 Mazzerin: cryptic did yo udie
15:24 Cryptic: no no
15:24 Cryptic: just making sure I didn't miss anything
15:24 Cryptic: almost done
15:24 Cryptic: like 30 seconds left
15:24 Cryptic: I'm gonna get shit on tho man
15:24 Cryptic: considering I nazi'd Empress yesterday and am flaming this today
15:25 Cryptic: inb4 loctav kicks me
15:25 Mazzerin: you're doing it for a good cause
15:25 Cryptic: rip
15:25 Cryptic: cool cool everything is in order
15:25 Cryptic: let me get the post ready and then I'll flame
how/ 
i love dubstep maps
You've got to be kidding lud xDDDDDDDDD oh vw /me checks self privilege
gratz btw lmao
gratz btw lmao
jk
Finally done with that piece of worthless junk. Crap, Mazzerin, when you started making things like Those whom from the Heavens came and The Deceit/The Violation, I actually started getting my hopes up that you were finally going to break out of your terrible Vektor and Apparition stage and start cranking out truly admirable maps. Even though Swamphell raised a red flag or two, I still had high hopes.
here comes the DQ squad
gratz!
lolBlue Dragon wrote:
jkFinally done with that piece of worthless junk. Crap, Mazzerin, when you started making things like Those whom from the Heavens came and The Deceit/The Violation, I actually started getting my hopes up that you were finally going to break out of your terrible Vektor and Apparition stage and start cranking out truly admirable maps. Even though Swamphell raised a red flag or two, I still had high hopes.
gratz mazzerin
oh my god
smh another pp farm anime opening
What kind of anime do you watch wtfFoxyGrandpa wrote:
anime opening
What the actual
Mapper wrote:
oh my god
Since this hasn't degenerated yet, I leave a small warning, for the unaware users:
If you decide to shitpost, count with a silence.
If you decide to shitpost, count with a silence.
dude, is this even rankable?
congratulations!
sorry if it's been brought up before but i really don't see the point of the kiai flashes at 01:44:567 - , i feel like there's just too many at once and it looks kinda weird because the 4th one goes into the slow section right after
i'd just remove the 2nd and 4th tbh
not a major problem tho
i like the map
sorry if it's been brought up before but i really don't see the point of the kiai flashes at 01:44:567 - , i feel like there's just too many at once and it looks kinda weird because the 4th one goes into the slow section right after
i'd just remove the 2nd and 4th tbh
not a major problem tho
i like the mapKabbaRam wrote:
dude, is this even rankable?
dat aim spike (tho srsly, pp doesnt matter, what matters is the quality of the map)
lol people are actually complaining about the difference in star rating instead of discussing the difference in actual difficulty
Its been confirmed multiple times that the star system is utter garbage when it comes to technical stuff and high bpm streams. If you guys actually took some time out of your day to check the replays of people who played the map you would see that pretty much everyone struggles more on the 260 bpm streams than they do on the jumps.
Star rating is completely irrelevant here, look at the difference in actual difficulty and if you still come to the conclusion that the jumps are overdone feel free to post
Its been confirmed multiple times that the star system is utter garbage when it comes to technical stuff and high bpm streams. If you guys actually took some time out of your day to check the replays of people who played the map you would see that pretty much everyone struggles more on the 260 bpm streams than they do on the jumps.
Star rating is completely irrelevant here, look at the difference in actual difficulty and if you still come to the conclusion that the jumps are overdone feel free to post
Isn't this like, very heavily overmapped at points. 03:23:214 - For example here I definitely don't hear one full stream lol.
The stream is referencing the sweep arpeggios the guitar is playing at that point ending at 03:26:445. It may not sound like a full stream because there is a mixture of 16th and triplet 16th notes making up the arpeggio while it is mapped in 16thsIrreversible wrote:
Isn't this like, very heavily overmapped at points. 03:23:214 - For example here I definitely don't hear one full stream lol.
Honestly watching this map be played and listening to it very closely. Its honestly a perfect work of art. I mean some spots in the map could be editted to be a bit more Player friendly but overall i think it fits the song perfectly.
Once we get through all of the "omfg 9* wtf", here's m opinion just by looking at it via some browser plugin (forgot the name).
The map generally seems to be perfectly reasonable, besides most of the fullscreen Kickslider Jumps and some spaced Stream transition in the early last third of the song. Im glad that you didnt went ham on the "slower/more quiet" parts.
- The Kicksliders really just seem to be there to mess one up or to "justify the difficulty" while they dont need to be that spaced. In the early third, you used the spacing on them well so that they seem to fit in with (most maybe less most) of the general spacing in these parts. The left side right side left side right sides later on on the other hand just make you throw your cursor and hope that you hit. Intensity here, intensity there, I dont put x5.0 SV on dubstep heavy maps either :c I wish they were spaced less.
- That one Stream transition Im talking about is where it get's into a really spaced C pattern and the next object tries to fit in in C's cave (the inside). The problem with that is that you really have to force yourself to slow down and try to move in an oddly shaped flipped 'z' movement (I dont think that I'll need to tell you shit about these kinds of stuffs, but really, there are many other, more enjoyable ways to do that transition).
Ive seen the explanation, yes, still wanted to post input
The map generally seems to be perfectly reasonable, besides most of the fullscreen Kickslider Jumps and some spaced Stream transition in the early last third of the song. Im glad that you didnt went ham on the "slower/more quiet" parts.
- The Kicksliders really just seem to be there to mess one up or to "justify the difficulty" while they dont need to be that spaced. In the early third, you used the spacing on them well so that they seem to fit in with (most maybe less most) of the general spacing in these parts. The left side right side left side right sides later on on the other hand just make you throw your cursor and hope that you hit. Intensity here, intensity there, I dont put x5.0 SV on dubstep heavy maps either :c I wish they were spaced less.
- That one Stream transition Im talking about is where it get's into a really spaced C pattern and the next object tries to fit in in C's cave (the inside). The problem with that is that you really have to force yourself to slow down and try to move in an oddly shaped flipped 'z' movement (I dont think that I'll need to tell you shit about these kinds of stuffs, but really, there are many other, more enjoyable ways to do that transition).
Ive seen the explanation, yes, still wanted to post input
Topic Starter
Your first point literally says "they're hard for me, I have to throw my cursor around and hope I hit them, wish it was spaced less" and something about that part not having the need to be that spaced (which I already explained - this is a top difficulty, and it's not even the most spaced it could be (what's up quaver) while it's the most intense part. Also mentioned why it would be dumb to nerf exactly the kick sliders or anything around them, I feel like I reached a consensus with enough people I value opinions of from both playability and mapping standpoints). It's been discussed and nerfed many times to the wishes of at least 5 players and an even larger amount of experienced mappers.Wivaiien wrote:
Once we get through all of the "omfg 9* wtf", here's m opinion just by looking at it via some browser plugin (forgot the name).
The map generally seems to be perfectly reasonable, besides most of the fullscreen Kickslider Jumps and some spaced Stream transition in the early last third of the song. Im glad that you didnt went ham on the "slower/more quiet" parts.
- The Kicksliders really just seem to be there to mess one up or to "justify the difficulty" while they dont need to be that spaced. In the early third, you used the spacing on them well so that they seem to fit in with (most maybe less most) of the general spacing in these parts. The left side right side left side right sides later on on the other hand just make you throw your cursor and hope that you hit. Intensity here, intensity there, I dont put x5.0 SV on dubstep heavy maps either :c I wish they were spaced less.
- That one Stream transition Im talking about is where it get's into a really spaced C pattern and the next object tries to fit in in C's cave (the inside). The problem with that is that you really have to force yourself to slow down and try to move in an oddly shaped flipped 'z' movement (I dont think that I'll need to tell you shit about these kinds of stuffs, but really, there are many other, more enjoyable ways to do that transition).
Ive seen the explanation, yes, still wanted to post input
Second point I'm pretty sure you're talking about the stream in the 2nd solo with NC every note. There is really no flipped Z movement, there's only a quick line turn because the stream you transition in isn't even spaced, and non spaced streams at such a bpm work in a way that let's you move your cursor quite freely - meaning there's no tension in your aiming hand or any quick snaps that would feel uncomfortable. Similar effect happens on spaced streams as well, except that it factors in reading much more, but your aiming motion stays the same, meaning that the only 'uncomfortable' part about that transition is the jump between the streams, which is what was actually meant to be emphasized in the first place.
It is a Z though and it feels really easy to overshoot. It also doesnt sound like much of a change is happening here - it's more of a continuation of the previous stream, maybe a "release" fits better. Something in this direction wouldve been pretty good imo.
And yes, ofcourse they are hard for me, but Im trying to look at it from a mappers perspective. I really feel like these combos would be just as good if they had patterns/spacing like 02:25:691 (1,2,1,2) - kinds of patterns (since the increased bpm already adds more difficulty to it) - or if you really want to keep the full screens, why not like http://puu.sh/rvPx6/a60d9411d9.jpg . Music also goes kind of "back and forth", so these would probably fit even more. (also, shouldnt these start on 03:28:637 (1) - ?)
Edit: Im just naziing my opinion on things, take it the way you want
And yes, ofcourse they are hard for me, but Im trying to look at it from a mappers perspective. I really feel like these combos would be just as good if they had patterns/spacing like 02:25:691 (1,2,1,2) - kinds of patterns (since the increased bpm already adds more difficulty to it) - or if you really want to keep the full screens, why not like http://puu.sh/rvPx6/a60d9411d9.jpg . Music also goes kind of "back and forth", so these would probably fit even more. (also, shouldnt these start on 03:28:637 (1) - ?)
Edit: Im just naziing my opinion on things, take it the way you want
Xendogenesis wrote:
i ducking love this map
i like watching centipede too :^)
In all seriousness, I like the map but i feel like it's just excessive how much the solo increases the difficulty of this map.
I would like for people to seriously atleast consider the transition between 03:00:073 (1) - and 03:15:830 (1) - .
It's obvious that the later has a bit more uniqueness and intensity to it, but is this unbelievably impossible mapping really necessary? It's not enjoyable for anyone to play this map and then be hit with arguably a wall of unplayability. (sure its possible to play this but I'm just being realistic).
It honestly just feels like its trying to be AS HARD AS PHYSICALLY possible for the sake of being it. Almost no one can play it, no one can enjoy it, so why do it?
Instances of overmapping
03:23:271 (2) -
03:23:387 (4) -
03:23:503 (2) -
03:25:579 (2) -
03:25:926 (4) -
03:26:387 (3) -
ETC.
feels like forced difficulty to me
This is the first Mazzerin map that is pointless enough to be in qualify state as of now.
Overall maps from first time mappers appeal more then what has been shown here.
Couple of obvious wrong things:
-Map up to 1200 combo is outragously boring (till 2 min 20 gametime) basicly 30 % of the begin on the map.
Not even the short part at 800 combo was sufficent enough to call it mapped
-Most mapped parts are a copy pasta fest he must have googled symetry or something but didnt take a test in it yet the result is clearly visible.
-At some point in the map he decided he wants it to be Mazzerin TV size pp jumps adding sliders wich are pointless to begin with, your not going to miss at that level from it being a slider , and the sliders itself dont add anything to begin with
-The ending was a combination of Sentimental Scyscrapper jumps and a potato version of the 2010 mapped Basara , heres a link for people not knowing it https://osu.ppy.sh/s/13019
In its current state the map is not worth peoples time to even consinder them modding , as over 85 % of the map is needing to be restructured.
Overall maps from first time mappers appeal more then what has been shown here.
Couple of obvious wrong things:
-Map up to 1200 combo is outragously boring (till 2 min 20 gametime) basicly 30 % of the begin on the map.
Not even the short part at 800 combo was sufficent enough to call it mapped
-Most mapped parts are a copy pasta fest he must have googled symetry or something but didnt take a test in it yet the result is clearly visible.
-At some point in the map he decided he wants it to be Mazzerin TV size pp jumps adding sliders wich are pointless to begin with, your not going to miss at that level from it being a slider , and the sliders itself dont add anything to begin with
-The ending was a combination of Sentimental Scyscrapper jumps and a potato version of the 2010 mapped Basara , heres a link for people not knowing it https://osu.ppy.sh/s/13019
In its current state the map is not worth peoples time to even consinder them modding , as over 85 % of the map is needing to be restructured.
grats
normal-hitfinish6 really doesn't fit this song tbh lmao
y e s
osu needs more 7+ stars
osu needs more 7+ stars
03:28:753 (1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2) - just to up it to 9 stars I suppose, on a serious note, I don't think this huge difficulty spikes should be allowed, you can argue that you feel the music is stronger than other parts, but I don't that justify 12,0 10,0 jumps.
also can you explain me what's the point of making maps that no one can play? I mean, anyone can take songs like this and make 9 stars maps, but I think people don't because no one can enjoy them (without NF or HT), there is a point when maps become physically impossible and they shouldn't be ranked IMO.
About the big difficulty spike what's the point of have it? make your map 9 stars? make it super hard?, if they fit the music or not is subjective, since alot of people would argue they do (personally I don't think they do), but we should take in consideration the playability of the map, having them make the map less enjoyable, I believe you are a decent mapper who can represent the song without the need of those jumps.
There are alot of linear movements 03:25:060 (1,2,3,1) - that don't play good at normal bpms and I guess they are worst at this high bpm, alot of overmapped objects as Xexxar pointed.
Anyways if this get ranked with that difficulty spike, we shouldn't complain at any other as well, since this one is beyond to any other difficulty spike.
also can you explain me what's the point of making maps that no one can play? I mean, anyone can take songs like this and make 9 stars maps, but I think people don't because no one can enjoy them (without NF or HT), there is a point when maps become physically impossible and they shouldn't be ranked IMO.
About the big difficulty spike what's the point of have it? make your map 9 stars? make it super hard?, if they fit the music or not is subjective, since alot of people would argue they do (personally I don't think they do), but we should take in consideration the playability of the map, having them make the map less enjoyable, I believe you are a decent mapper who can represent the song without the need of those jumps.
There are alot of linear movements 03:25:060 (1,2,3,1) - that don't play good at normal bpms and I guess they are worst at this high bpm, alot of overmapped objects as Xexxar pointed.
Anyways if this get ranked with that difficulty spike, we shouldn't complain at any other as well, since this one is beyond to any other difficulty spike.
I wonder who the target players of this map are. Maybe some of high-ranked players like playing excessive maps they can hardly pass, but we won't call them as 'target players', just like an Insane diff cannot have newbies as target players only because some of them like to struggle to pass it.
to add to natsu's point. This map is the equivalent of if I took my old map https://osu.ppy.sh/s/334050 and mapped 04:54:736 (1) - as entirely streams because "the song justified it"
10* when :<?
Gratz btw xd
Gratz btw xd
this map is so fun! especially the high bpm part (fast is my specialty ). may be hard but still feels great to play! especially since it represents the music so well 
). may be hard but still feels great to play! especially since it represents the music so well This map actually received extensive testplaying from top players before being pushed forward. Just going through the first 3-4 pages, many of the mods were made by players in the top 100. When you map, you rarely consider a "target audience" anyways. Whenever you consider a "target audience" in mapping, it will always be for lower difficulties, such as spinner recovery time on Easy/Normal, or rhythm density, or too many streams on a Hard, etc...
Spacing is very subjective. Will moving a jump 1 pixel closer make it more acceptable to you? How about 2 pixels closer? How about 3? 4? etc... You see, everyone will see "excessive" spacing differently, and everyone will have different opinions towards what's too emphasized, and what they'd consider acceptable. If the star rating system were different, and there wasn't as big of an SR spike, I don't think we'd be as critical about the pattern. Star rating is extremely biased towards high-bpm jumps by the way. The system is set up to slice maps into chunks which I think are 500 ms. They then rate each individual 500 ms based on difficulty. The higher the bpm, the more objects you can fit into any one of these windows. The reason this is unfair is because more objects also contribute to more difficulty, as the rating system has more objects it can add to the calculation. Basically, if you fit 3 objects into a 500 ms window, and then fit 6 objects into a 500 ms window, the 6 object pattern will be more than twice as difficult as the 3 object pattern.
Spacing is very subjective. Will moving a jump 1 pixel closer make it more acceptable to you? How about 2 pixels closer? How about 3? 4? etc... You see, everyone will see "excessive" spacing differently, and everyone will have different opinions towards what's too emphasized, and what they'd consider acceptable. If the star rating system were different, and there wasn't as big of an SR spike, I don't think we'd be as critical about the pattern. Star rating is extremely biased towards high-bpm jumps by the way. The system is set up to slice maps into chunks which I think are 500 ms. They then rate each individual 500 ms based on difficulty. The higher the bpm, the more objects you can fit into any one of these windows. The reason this is unfair is because more objects also contribute to more difficulty, as the rating system has more objects it can add to the calculation. Basically, if you fit 3 objects into a 500 ms window, and then fit 6 objects into a 500 ms window, the 6 object pattern will be more than twice as difficult as the 3 object pattern.
Comparison:
This is 1.37 stars
This is 0.62 stars
You can try this with a variety of other patterns, the result will favor a higher density per-500ms pattern.
This is 0.62 stars
You can try this with a variety of other patterns, the result will favor a higher density per-500ms pattern.
There is a point where the spacing is subjective yes, but once you started to spam cross screen jumps that's going too far, specially a high bpm, we are not discussing the star rating, Monstrata, but the huge spike there, Is totally unnecessary to have these jumps.
Monstrata we are not talking about moving things 1 pixel, we are talking about moving things to the point that they fit the rest of the difficulty of this map. Yes difficulty spikes are fine, but the one at this map is just exaggerated and unnecessary.
Monstrata we are not talking about moving things 1 pixel, we are talking about moving things to the point that they fit the rest of the difficulty of this map. Yes difficulty spikes are fine, but the one at this map is just exaggerated and unnecessary.
It's really unfair to compare difficulty spike in the fast part of the map to the slow part. You don't do that for song compilations and it shouldn't be done here. The jumps, when put in the context of only the rest of the solo, are completely fine. The stream sections at 03:23:214 - 03:25:926 - and 03:50:791 - 03:52:464 - are arguably as hard as the jumps anyway. Star rating is completely useless when comparing jumps to streams or technical patterns
Oh. I was trying to be more philosophical haha. Like "What is a huge jump? How many pixels does it take to make it huge?" It's like if you have one piece of paper. Is that a stack of paper? No? What if I add another piece of paper? and another? when does a pile of paper become a stack of paper? Considering that logic, there's no objective way to define a jump as being too big. But I suppose, there's no objective way to say the jump needs to be that big either, so its reciprocal. That was my argument for putting those jumps on Inferno actually, I just thought I'd reference that, since a lot of discussion went into that set regarding the really big jumps. (Quaver also had a lot of discussion, but quaver had a much better spacing concept, so I'll count that as a separate debate).
Oh, so you're here just to tell the mapper that he is incorrect in his interpretation of the music? Despite saying, and this is a direct quote from your OP, that "if they fit the music or not is subjective"?Natsu wrote:
Explaining something doesn't make it correct, that's why there are discussions about the issues or questionable things in a map.
I'm sorry, but what exactly is the point you're trying to make?
so you failed to read that I'm worry about the difference of difficulty with the rest of the map and also the playability ? I'm not complaining about his interpretation, I'm complaining about the sudden spike and that the map don't have any target audience, did someone passed it without no fail?, reducing the difficulty at that part may open the map for someone to play it properly (maybe).LefafeI wrote:
Oh, so you're here just to tell the mapper that he is incorrect in his interpretation of the music? Despite saying, and this is a direct quote from your OP, that "if they fit the music or not is subjective"?Natsu wrote:
Explaining something doesn't make it correct, that's why there are discussions about the issues or questionable things in a map.
I'm sorry, but what exactly is the point you're trying to make?
Yeah there's a stark spike in the map's star rating, not so stark in the actual difficulty play-wise. It has been explained several times in the thread already.Natsu wrote:
so you failed to read that I'm worry about the difference of difficulty with the rest of the map and also the playability ? I'm not complaining about his interpretation, I'm complaining about the sudden spike and that the map don't have any target audience, did someone passed it without no fail?, reducing the difficulty at that part may open the map for someone to play it properly (maybe).
The map has been extensively playested by a number of experienced players, and has recieved praise from them, so there clearly is an audience for it as well. It might be true that the players that can pass the map without difficulty-decreasing mods can be counted with one hand right now, but how does that devalue the map in any way? For many of us, enjoying a map doesn't require a final score that the game labels as a "pass". Are players not allowed to enjoy and compete on maps just because they can't perform well enough to meet the game's somewhat arbitary standards of what counts as a "passable score" (Or, as you put it, can't "play it properly")? Who even are you to tell what is or isn't "playing properly"?
If the map was HP1, would it suddenly be more worthy of ranking because people could now pass it without no-fail or half time?
Only nerfing the star rating spike would just compromise the map's consistency, since the current map represents the music just about as well as can be expected. (This is subjective, of course, but plenty of people agree with this, including many very experienced mappers and players and of course Mazzerin himself)
All of these issues are so fundamentally subjective, that even bringing them up after them being discussed so many times already just seems very disruptive rather than constructive.
Why you keep talking about star rating?LefafeI wrote:
Yeah there's a stark spike in the map's star rating, not so stark in the actual difficulty play-wise. It has been explained several times in the thread already.
The map has been extensively playested by a number of experienced players, and has recieved praise from them, so there clearly is an audience for it as well. It might be true that the players that can pass the map without difficulty-decreasing mods can be counted with one hand right now, but how does that devalue the map in any way? For many of us, enjoying a map doesn't require a final score that the game labels as a "pass". Are players not allowed to enjoy and compete on maps just because they can't perform well enough to meet the game's somewhat arbitary standards of what counts as a "passable score" (Or, as you put it, can't "play it properly")? Who even are you to tell what is or isn't "playing properly"?
If the map was HP1, would it suddenly be more worthy of ranking because people could now pass it without no-fail or half time?
Only nerfing the star rating spike would just compromise the map's consistency, since the current map represents the music just about as well as can be expected. (This is subjective, of course, but plenty of people agree with this, including many very experienced mappers and players and of course Mazzerin himself)
All of these issues are so fundamentally subjective, that even bringing them up after them being discussed so many times already just seems very disruptive rather than constructive.
The spike is there, no I'm not complaining about it being 9 stars, I'm complaining about the lvl of difficulty.
Who I'm to complain about a map in the qualify map section, just a member of the community that is concerned about the direction that mapping is going nowadays, if you didn't read that's the purpose of the qualify section, anyone can post their concern, I'm wonder until when people will notice this.
Yes I read all the map thread, there are alot of complains about that diff spike, isn't only me.
Nerfing that part would not compromise anything, let's don't talk about that, i have enough mapping experience to know that nerfing things don't compromise your map in any way, if playability wins then there should not be an excuse for don't do it, anyways I want to know what the QAT think about this.
Edit:
Btw who can pass this map? tbh atm as Doyak said is the same as a new player trying to pass a hard diff, there is no one, if I'm not wrong.
ohhhh now I understand, you think that the opinnions of the nominators that qualified the map are wrong, since they considered the difficulty spike a non-issue and you don't. That would indeed mean that QAT, being the higher administrative party, is the only souce of any relevancy at this point and further discussion before their input about this is pointless.
That apply to any map where a discussion is going on, don't take it wrong, just because a map is qualified doesn't mean is ranked, qualified section is to discuss things related to the map, ranked section is the final product of it, don't merge them, and yes, that's why we used this thread: p/5518455 the QAT check if the issues worth a DQ or not.LefafeI wrote:
ohhhh now I understand, you think that the opinnions of the nominators that qualified the map are wrong, since they considered the difficulty spike a non-issue and you don't. That would indeed mean that QAT, being the higher administrative party, is the only souce of any relevancy at this point and further discussion before their input about this is pointless.
Topic Starter
Xexxar
The guitar - this is what we came up with goldenwolf/ukod and me, pishi also icon'd this - 1/6 are changed to 1/4 - https://misery.s-ul.eu/KHJ3l7o1
every single object you linked is actually there, leave timiming judging to more experienced timers please.
What's wrong with mapping so it's hard to pass? Don't you remember what happened with Airman or any other of the challenge maps? Or when Everything Will Freeze was 'hard' and then C just comes in and fc's it?
In the thread I've talked about the transition, and all I said about it is that I want it to consist out of clicks for every guitar 1/2 at 03:14:907 (1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2) - and that's nowhere close to 'unplayable', please leave judging playability to players and me. I asked some people about the transition like Azerite and he said it's really nothing special especially if you know it's there after playing it once or just looking at the map.Xexxar wrote:
Xendogenesis wrote:
i ducking love this map
i like watching centipede too :^)
In all seriousness, I like the map but i feel like it's just excessive how much the solo increases the difficulty of this map.
I would like for people to seriously atleast consider the transition between 03:00:073 (1) - and 03:15:830 (1) - .
It's obvious that the later has a bit more uniqueness and intensity to it, but is this unbelievably impossible mapping really necessary? It's not enjoyable for anyone to play this map and then be hit with arguably a wall of unplayability. (sure its possible to play this but I'm just being realistic).
It honestly just feels like its trying to be AS HARD AS PHYSICALLY possible for the sake of being it. Almost no one can play it, no one can enjoy it, so why do it?
Instances of overmapping
03:23:271 (2) -
03:23:387 (4) -
03:23:503 (2) -
03:25:579 (2) -
03:25:926 (4) -
03:26:387 (3) -
ETC.
feels like forced difficulty to me
The guitar - this is what we came up with goldenwolf/ukod and me, pishi also icon'd this - 1/6 are changed to 1/4 - https://misery.s-ul.eu/KHJ3l7o1
every single object you linked is actually there, leave timiming judging to more experienced timers please.
What's wrong with mapping so it's hard to pass? Don't you remember what happened with Airman or any other of the challenge maps? Or when Everything Will Freeze was 'hard' and then C just comes in and fc's it?
Shian-aaa
thanks for your opinion! our opinions clash, it seems.Shian-aaa wrote:
This is the first Mazzerin map that is pointless enough to be in qualify state as of now.
Overall maps from first time mappers appeal more then what has been shown here.
Couple of obvious wrong things:
-Map up to 1200 combo is outragously boring (till 2 min 20 gametime) basicly 30 % of the begin on the map.
Not even the short part at 800 combo was sufficent enough to call it mapped
-Most mapped parts are a copy pasta fest he must have googled symetry or something but didnt take a test in it yet the result is clearly visible.
-At some point in the map he decided he wants it to be Mazzerin TV size pp jumps adding sliders wich are pointless to begin with, your not going to miss at that level from it being a slider , and the sliders itself dont add anything to begin with
-The ending was a combination of Sentimental Scyscrapper jumps and a potato version of the 2010 mapped Basara , heres a link for people not knowing it https://osu.ppy.sh/s/13019
In its current state the map is not worth peoples time to even consinder them modding , as over 85 % of the map is needing to be restructured.
Natsu
2. The point of having a difficulty spike is to follow the song. And since the target audience are top players, it is a top difficulty, which means the whole map is scaled around being challenging as well.
3. I am against overmapping. There are no overmapped objects in my maps except for slider ends. I tried stopping RIDICULOUSLY overmapped maps from being ranked, but it never worked. Even if it was overmapped, I could argue it fits the guitar sweeps, but enough of that.
4. 03:25:060 (1,2,3,1) - which part of this is linear? I just checked the entire 260 bpm part and there isn't a single linear pattern, lol. I can actually link you every linear pattern in the map:
02:35:298 (1,2,3) - felt like it fits guitar + good lead in to 02:35:803 (1) -
05:23:057 (1) - all of these, also because of how the guitar goes
both are in 178 bpm parts, and there are only 2 instances of them. Not a valid point.
5. What's wrong with extreme difficulty spikes being ranked? As long as it would be justified and made sense in comparison to the rest of the song/map like here, it would be fine.
1. What do you mean 'no one can play'? Who do you think tested them then? What do you consider playable and unplayable? Does playable always equal to fcable in your mind? And lastly: what's wrong with having something unplayable if it's not too out of reach of what people can do now? What wrong will it do? (not even speaking of this map)Natsu wrote:
03:28:753 (1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2) - just to up it to 9 stars I suppose, on a serious note, I don't think this huge difficulty spikes should be allowed, you can argue that you feel the music is stronger than other parts, but I don't that justify 12,0 10,0 jumps.
also can you explain me what's the point of making maps that no one can play? I mean, anyone can take songs like this and make 9 stars maps, but I think people don't because no one can enjoy them (without NF or HT), there is a point when maps become physically impossible and they shouldn't be ranked IMO.
About the big difficulty spike what's the point of have it? make your map 9 stars? make it super hard?, if they fit the music or not is subjective, since alot of people would argue they do (personally I don't think they do), but we should take in consideration the playability of the map, having them make the map less enjoyable, I believe you are a decent mapper who can represent the song without the need of those jumps.
There are alot of linear movements 03:25:060 (1,2,3,1) - that don't play good at normal bpms and I guess they are worst at this high bpm, alot of overmapped objects as Xexxar pointed.
Anyways if this get ranked with that difficulty spike, we shouldn't complain at any other as well, since this one is beyond to any other difficulty spike.
2. The point of having a difficulty spike is to follow the song. And since the target audience are top players, it is a top difficulty, which means the whole map is scaled around being challenging as well.
3. I am against overmapping. There are no overmapped objects in my maps except for slider ends. I tried stopping RIDICULOUSLY overmapped maps from being ranked, but it never worked. Even if it was overmapped, I could argue it fits the guitar sweeps, but enough of that.
4. 03:25:060 (1,2,3,1) - which part of this is linear? I just checked the entire 260 bpm part and there isn't a single linear pattern, lol. I can actually link you every linear pattern in the map:
02:35:298 (1,2,3) - felt like it fits guitar + good lead in to 02:35:803 (1) -
05:23:057 (1) - all of these, also because of how the guitar goes
both are in 178 bpm parts, and there are only 2 instances of them. Not a valid point.
5. What's wrong with extreme difficulty spikes being ranked? As long as it would be justified and made sense in comparison to the rest of the song/map like here, it would be fine.
TL;DR:
1. There are no overmapped objects.
2. There are no linear movements in the 260 part.
3. It's made with me following the song while having the skill of top players in mind as a reference point to what is playable and what is unplayable.
People react as if it's bad that there's discussion about the first qualified 9* map.
Ofcourse there will be opinions that are different to mazzerin's explanation and ofcourse people will try to make their point clear. Just because there's an "because the song is stronger lel" doesnt mean that noones allowed to post anything about it.
Ofcourse there will be opinions that are different to mazzerin's explanation and ofcourse people will try to make their point clear. Just because there's an "because the song is stronger lel" doesnt mean that noones allowed to post anything about it.
I know i sound like a jackass for saying this (because well, I'm me) but I believe that as long as difficulty spikes are justified by the song, it's fine. In this case, it really is justified simply by the guitar. It may seem like the DS is way too high, but it really isn't when you compare it with all those high bpm spaced streams and stream jumps. The intensity and the lack of density in the 1/2 jumps are compensated with very high DS. Also, consider that the base DS of the jumps are fairly high. There has to be a way to make the most intense part of the song noticeably much more difficult.
This qualified section is made to improve maps that lacks quality, not rant about how a 9* map gets qualified and "nobody" can play it.
o3o
This qualified section is made to improve maps that lacks quality, not rant about how a 9* map gets qualified and "nobody" can play it.
o3o
Well, after all "improvements" this map will be moved to ranked section. Exactly for three and a half people, who can play it and other 300-500 people, who will give it one try with NoFail and forget about it. What do you think, does this map deserves to be ranked? Does the whole community need maps like this? Is there any other reason, despite mapper's will, to move it to ranked section? The answer is no.Bearizm wrote:
This qualified section is made to improve maps that lacks quality, not rant about how a 9* map gets qualified and "nobody" can play it.
This map will be forgotten in a month anyway, no matter ranked it or graveyarded. Enjoy your hype, kids.
god bless u mazzerin
funny thing is that, its totally playable.. the stream before the kickslider jumps is the hardest part about the map, and thats only because the meta focuses on anything but streams, so of course very few people are able to play it. in any way that doesnt mean its impossible though, it just doesnt fit the skill set of all these anime map playersBearizm wrote:
This qualified section is made to improve maps that lacks quality, not rant about how a 9* map gets qualified and "nobody" can play it.
"i don't like it therefore it shouldn't be ranked"
"i can't play it and almost no one can so it shouldn't be ranked"
there's something called technical quality which is required for getting a map ranked... which this map happens to have
maps like galaxy collapse and red like roses may be "fun" to play (smash your keys through random jumps, sure) but don't have technical quality, therefore that's why they aren't ranked while this map is
people just need to deal with the fact that we should be ranking quality maps regardless if they're hard or not
and if you have absolutely no idea about mapping quality then you should probably stay away from the thread
discussing about "forced difficulty" and actual issues in the map is fine, but saying that the map shouldn't be ranked because it's "too hard" is completely stupid
"i can't play it and almost no one can so it shouldn't be ranked"
there's something called technical quality which is required for getting a map ranked... which this map happens to have
maps like galaxy collapse and red like roses may be "fun" to play (smash your keys through random jumps, sure) but don't have technical quality, therefore that's why they aren't ranked while this map is
people just need to deal with the fact that we should be ranking quality maps regardless if they're hard or not
and if you have absolutely no idea about mapping quality then you should probably stay away from the thread
discussing about "forced difficulty" and actual issues in the map is fine, but saying that the map shouldn't be ranked because it's "too hard" is completely stupid
Locked for cleaning
okay, shitpost warning #2, some things on this thread that weren't contributing to anything, really, died.
Please behave
Please behave
If you had a slow song that had a 1/8th stream out of nowhere is it okay to map it because the song warrants it? A map should cater consistency in its design and not be excessive for what its trying to be.Bearizm wrote:
I know i sound like a jackass for saying this (because well, I'm me) but I believe that as long as difficulty spikes are justified by the song, it's fine. In this case, it really is justified simply by the guitar. It may seem like the DS is way too high, but it really isn't when you compare it with all those high bpm spaced streams and stream jumps. The intensity and the lack of density in the 1/2 jumps are compensated with very high DS. Also, consider that the base DS of the jumps are fairly high. There has to be a way to make the most intense part of the song noticeably much more difficult.
This qualified section is made to improve maps that lacks quality, not rant about how a 9* map gets qualified and "nobody" can play it.
o3o
Mazzerin you point out maps like timefreeze and airman as examples of controversial high difficulty maps that are "ok now because C has fc'd them." Do you even think bringing those maps up is relevant? They are consistently difficulty and only have slight to moderate noticeable increases in difficulty in them. The problem is not the difficulty, the problem is how the difficulty is unnatural in the presence of the rest of the map. It's excessive and doesn't fit what else you've mapped.
as for overmapping, I'll ask pishifat to listen to those since you seem to believe he is almighty. (which he is)
A map should cater consistency in its design and not be excessive for what its trying to be.Hmm... If that's the case I must warn you that pretty much all recent mapping should be DQ then, since most of what we see in recent mapping is maps consistently made as 4* hitting 5* by the abuse of jumps on kiais (this also happened a lot in the past maps by abusing streams).
Saying that the map is mainly mapped according to one star rating(or one difficulty range) and say that the kiai abuses difficulty to increase that should be enough reason to never actually got to rank Road of Resistance, but i didn't see you applying the same logic there.
Not a personal attack, just pointing that this line of argument is pretty empty considering the actual meta of mapping :/
Xexxar wrote:
Mazzerin you point out maps like timefreeze and airman as examples of controversial high difficulty maps that are "ok now because C has fc'd them." Do you even think bringing those maps up is relevant? They are consistently difficulty and only have slight to moderate noticeable increases in difficulty in them. The problem is not the difficulty, the problem is how the difficulty is unnatural in the presence of the rest of the map. It's excessive and doesn't fit what else you've mapped.
Xexxar wrote:
It honestly just feels like its trying to be AS HARD AS PHYSICALLY possible for the sake of being it. Almost no one can play it, no one can enjoy it, so why do it?
?
Topic Starter
Impeccable logic! Bravo! It's been over a year of how your miserable comment on Apparition's thread rots, while the map doesn't, yet to this day you remain completely oblivious to what such behavior will lead to. This kind of input doesn't provide anything to me nor the community, it will change nothing, it affects the quality of the map in no way. Neither the map or you will ever be forgotten though - I can assure you of that - it is already inevitable.kkk wrote:
Well, after all "improvements" this map will be moved to ranked section. Exactly for three and a half people, who can play it and other 300-500 people, who will give it one try with NoFail and forget about it. What do you think, does this map deserves to be ranked? Does the whole community need maps like this? Is there any other reason, despite mapper's will, to move it to ranked section? The answer is no.Bearizm wrote:
This qualified section is made to improve maps that lacks quality, not rant about how a 9* map gets qualified and "nobody" can play it.
This map will be forgotten in a month anyway, no matter ranked it or graveyarded. Enjoy your hype, kids.
holy shit 1/8 streams on slow maps aren't even close to how different these jumps are in difficulty, by the way they are used sometimes and they don't come out of nowhere, but rather on intense parts of the song. This comparison would imply that putting 1/16 streams (since the song is 'fast' (I think you were implying it's mostly 1/2 by 'slow'?)) in this map would be just as intense as the 1/2 jumps.. which isn't even close, frankly.Xexxar wrote:
If you had a slow song that had a 1/8th stream out of nowhere is it okay to map it because the song warrants it?
what the... what are you talking about? That part literally never repeats again, the song is extremely unrepetitive and every part has unique spacing that is directly related to each part to make it properly emphasize the hard parts. Don't you see that there are other parts even in the 260 bpm part that are just as spaced as the very spike? 03:37:753 (1,2,1) - 03:44:445 (1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2) - 03:52:522 (1,2) - 03:48:830 (1,2) -Xexxar wrote:
A map should cater consistency in its design and not be excessive for what its trying to be.
well, you probably don't see them because they don't pop up in your aim strain graph app... If you try to argue that 'it's not the same because there's only 2 or 4 notes this spaced' there, I will disagree again, because that's how the song is. The spike simply has a larger amount of 1/2 high pitch notes so it turns out this way, and everything before the sliders builds up gradually.
Man do you actually think airman/everything will freeze are consistently difficult? Maybe airman is consistently spaced, but let's face it, the non-spaced parts with back and forths 2 times are the only hard parts in the map. Time freeze difficulty spikes up at the end, which is why people who can play it get 1k+ combo very consistently, while failing to pass most of the time. It's not about those maps, though, so I'll say it again - blame the song for becoming 260 bpm if you want, because I have even larger jumps in the 178 bpm sections, not to mention the technical stream patterns which actually ARE difficult, talala even said he might fail just because of the second solo after passing the first one because the second one isn't exactly THAT easy and the first one isn't THAT difficult.Xexxar wrote:
Mazzerin you point out maps like timefreeze and airman as examples of controversial high difficulty maps that are "ok now because C has fc'd them." Do you even think bringing those maps up is relevant? They are consistently difficulty and only have slight to moderate noticeable increases in difficulty in them. The problem is not the difficulty, the problem is how the difficulty is unnatural in the presence of the rest of the map. It's excessive and doesn't fit what else you've mapped.
Fine, but just for fun - keep these in mind: https://osu.ppy.sh/s/336414 https://osu.ppy.sh/b/1049018Xexxar wrote:
as for overmapping, I'll ask pishifat to listen to those since you seem to believe he is almighty. (which he is)
03:30:022 (2) - is that offscreen or still ok? https://puu.sh/rwRfp/094608aaa4.png
https://osu.ppy.sh/b/1012279Xexxar wrote:
If you had a slow song that had a 1/8th stream out of nowhere is it okay to map it because the song warrants it? A map should cater consistency in its design and not be excessive for what its trying to be.
I think it's perfectly fine to map a 1/8 stream on a slow song if it called for it. I also don't think ignoring a certain aspect of a song for the sake of being consistent is a good idea either. If a song suddenly became intense on a single part, you should map it.
why not just use a 1/8th slider to avoid an unnecessary spike in difficulty when it might not warrant it, or any other form of sliders to make it reasonable.-[Koinuri] wrote:
https://osu.ppy.sh/b/1012279Xexxar wrote:
If you had a slow song that had a 1/8th stream out of nowhere is it okay to map it because the song warrants it? A map should cater consistency in its design and not be excessive for what its trying to be.
I think it's perfectly fine to map a 1/8 stream on a slow song if it called for it. I also don't think ignoring a certain aspect of a song for the sake of being consistent is a good idea either. If a song suddenly became intense on a single part, you should map it.
as for mazzerin.
aight fine do whatever, no one cares about maps quality anymore anyway so idk why I even make an effort. (i forgot quaver got ranked, this map is fine)
Took a look at Autoplay yesterday, looks fine IIRC.N00dle wrote:
03:30:022 (2) - is that offscreen or still ok? https://puu.sh/rwRfp/094608aaa4.png
Having bunch of 1/8 repeat sliders (essentially making it a long 1/1 or 1/2 section) is just as inconsistent because it'd make the section way too easy, considering it's one of the peak in the song, but oh well, offtopic. My point is having a spike isn't necessarily a bad thing if the song calls for it.Xexxar wrote:
why not just use a 1/8th slider to avoid an unnecessary spike in difficulty when it might not warrant it, or any other form of sliders to make it reasonable.
If a song calls for it (like really), why not? It's not always good to sacrifice emphasis for consistency. Actually, I don't think there is ever a case where consistency is prioritized over emphasis. If you think of consistency as the higher prior than emphasis then you're playing a target practice. If vice versa; you're playing a circle clicking rhythm game; which is what this game is. xdXexxar wrote:
If you had a slow song that had a 1/8th stream out of nowhere is it okay to map it because the song warrants it? A map should cater consistency in its design and not be excessive for what its trying to be.
I just feel some 260 bpm large space 1/4 jump is funny. But it's just my opinion and this is unrelated to the map quality. No need to reply to this post. The map is good overall, and in my opinion it's good everywhere. And this is not some sarcasm, I mean, man, this map is good.
looked through the map with auto at 800x600, nothing should be offscreen (some stuff goes pretty close but it's not close enough for it to be a problem)N00dle wrote:
03:30:022 (2) - is that offscreen or still ok? https://puu.sh/rwRfp/094608aaa4.png
for anyone complaining about sharp stream transitions (like this 04:56:597 (1,1,1) - ) you need to understand that mapping is not simply about smooth transitions and flow. I don't really know the name but you can hear the foot pedal (?) kick in here 04:56:765 - which justifies this kind of patterning.
also mazzerin can you tell me about this 05:02:158 (1,2,1,2) - 05:02:833 (1,2,3,4) -
Topic Starter
tell what it's similar to 04:55:754 (1) - but of less magnitude, those notes increase in pitch while the 2nd group decrease and it isn't as noticeable when it decreases, so nothing really happensriktoi wrote:
looked through the map with auto at 800x600, nothing should be offscreen (some stuff goes pretty close but it's not close enough for it to be a problem)N00dle wrote:
03:30:022 (2) - is that offscreen or still ok? https://puu.sh/rwRfp/094608aaa4.png
for anyone complaining about sharp stream transitions (like this 04:56:597 (1,1,1) - ) you need to understand that mapping is not simply about smooth transitions and flow. I don't really know the name but you can hear the foot pedal (?) kick in here 04:56:765 - which justifies this kind of patterning.
also mazzerin can you tell me about this 05:02:158 (1,2,1,2) - 05:02:833 (1,2,3,4) -
People are complaining about the hugely exaggerated back and forth jumps that are ill fitting to the rest of the map,
when the whole map is ugly and looks unpolished in general.
This map has too low AR/OD and there is nothing the mapper can do about it.
Played in half time, (which many people in this case WILL ACTUALLY DO, (unlike in other maps)) the map becomes 7.22* and AR9.
I can't imagine anyone choosing to map for example:
https://osu.ppy.sh/b/1028733
https://osu.ppy.sh/b/851255
https://osu.ppy.sh/b/724015
:with AR9, taking into consideration that most of the people in around top 5 000 can read ar9DT with ease, and this maps target audience being the top3+ a couple of fast players.
Obviously people are going to say that it isnt the mappers fault, as he cannot rise the AR above 10.
There still is SOMETHING he can do: not overmap like crazy, or consider NOT mapping something that CANNOT be mapped with the current editor.
Sadly that is mostly what he is known for and for what his fanboys will follow him for.
Also, gotta love these comments about this map automatically being better because its not anime music.
I feel like these people do not look at the map at all, but just the music, and mainly want a contrast for the anime heavy scene.
I love this kind of music but I disagree with a choice of mp3 making the MAP any better..
EDIT: cant wait for the learn to read replies
when the whole map is ugly and looks unpolished in general.
This map has too low AR/OD and there is nothing the mapper can do about it.
Played in half time, (which many people in this case WILL ACTUALLY DO, (unlike in other maps)) the map becomes 7.22* and AR9.
I can't imagine anyone choosing to map for example:
https://osu.ppy.sh/b/1028733
https://osu.ppy.sh/b/851255
https://osu.ppy.sh/b/724015
:with AR9, taking into consideration that most of the people in around top 5 000 can read ar9DT with ease, and this maps target audience being the top3+ a couple of fast players.
Obviously people are going to say that it isnt the mappers fault, as he cannot rise the AR above 10.
There still is SOMETHING he can do: not overmap like crazy, or consider NOT mapping something that CANNOT be mapped with the current editor.
Sadly that is mostly what he is known for and for what his fanboys will follow him for.
Also, gotta love these comments about this map automatically being better because its not anime music.
I feel like these people do not look at the map at all, but just the music, and mainly want a contrast for the anime heavy scene.
I love this kind of music but I disagree with a choice of mp3 making the MAP any better..
EDIT: cant wait for the learn to read replies
Ye it's like, not mappers fault because he can't rise the AR above 10huono_tuuri wrote:
People are complaining about the hugely exaggerated back and forth jumps that are ill fitting to the rest of the map,
when the whole map is ugly and looks unpolished in general.
This map has too low AR/OD and there is nothing the mapper can do about it.
Played in half time, (which many people in this case WILL ACTUALLY DO, (unlike in other maps)) the map becomes 7.22* and AR9.
I can't imagine anyone choosing to map for example:
https://osu.ppy.sh/b/1028733
https://osu.ppy.sh/b/851255
https://osu.ppy.sh/b/724015
:with AR9, taking into consideration that most of the people in around top 5 000 can read ar9DT with ease, and this maps target audience being the top3+ a couple of fast players.
Obviously people are going to say that it isnt the mappers fault, as he cannot rise the AR above 10.
There still is SOMETHING he can do: not overmap like crazy, or consider NOT mapping something that CANNOT be mapped with the current editor.
Sadly that is mostly what he is known for and for what his fanboys will follow him for.
Also, gotta love these comments about this map automatically being better because its not anime music.
I feel like these people do not look at the map at all, but just the music, and mainly want a contrast for the anime heavy scene.
I love this kind of music but I disagree with a choice of mp3 making the MAP any better..
EDIT: cant wait for the learn to read replies
mods arent considered for map rankability, except in weird cases like hr drain making the map unpassable
its the player's fault if they cant read the mod they put on
its the player's fault if they cant read the mod they put on