Inferi - The Promethean Kings‬ · forum‬

[ Eon Fox ]

Joined September 2014

[ Eon Fox ] 2016-09-22T23:13:03+00:00

Oh... joy.

00:06:479 (4,5) - I'm sorry, but this is excessive. In less than 2/10ths of a second, you make the player go almost entirely across the screen, with AR10 and OD10. No, this is not okay.
00:23:895 (3,4) - I get that this is 178bpm with a relatively low SV, but that still doesn't mean you should you 10+ DS. I can't even remember seeing that outside of VERY slow songs or TAG maps. This is neither, and considering the sound mapped, it makes no sense when compared to the next combo.
00:56:366 (5,6) - So, you made a jump with less than a 1/10th of a second gap that large because...?
00:57:714 (3,1) - This is a jump all the way across the screen with a comfy 84ms to react with. There's no possible musical justification for this.
00:58:220 (3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12) - This is overmapping. WAY overmapping. There is NOTHING warranting this, considering how tame the riffs here are.
01:00:411 (1,2,3,4) - This is many things: Overmapped, ugly, and needless. I'm listening to the same instruments as you, and nothing is there that warrants you doing this with such distance.
01:01:422 (1,2) - Okay, that part of the song is barely of any note whatsoever. Stop putting in these jumps just because you feel like it.
01:17:939 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4) - This is just a mess. There's a big difference making compact streams and basically testing the limits of the stack leniency.
01:23:669 (1,2,3) - This looks absolutely terrible. Clean it up a bit.
01:36:815 (2,3,4,1,2,3) - These are very clearly overmapped. Disgustingly so.
01:39:512 (2,3,4,1,2,3) - Same deal.
01:42:208 (2,3,4,1,2,3) - Just because a computer can flawlessly do it does not mean you should slap it everywhere.
01:46:253 (5,6,1) - I am convinced you did this solely to bump up SR. There is never any reason to do crap like this. Nothing musically, especially.
01:59:399 (1,2) - Same deal.
01:59:905 (1,2) - Same deal.
02:00:411 (1,2) - Same deal.
02:12:208 (3,4,5) - This part is so tame, and yet you act like you're mapping speedcore. Stop doing ridiculous things just to raise SR!
02:14:230 (3,4,5) - Same deal.
02:14:904 (1,2,1,2) - Again, stop taking tame parts and acting like they can justify obscene jumps.
02:15:410 (2,1) - This is the simplest chord, and you put a jump clear across the screen for no reason other than the fact that you could.
02:16:253 (3,4,5) - Stop with EVERYTHING like this.
02:23:668 (1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1) - Not only are none of these called for, but the whole thing looks like a mess.
02:25:691 (1,2,1,2) - Same deal.
02:26:365 (1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1) - You can at least try and make these presentable. This is REALLY bad.
02:30:747 (1,2,1,2,1,2) - Stop doing this. Make actual patterns instead of deliberate raises of SR.
02:39:174 (1,2,1,2) - Same deal.
02:41:028 (2,3,4,5) - This is an awful design. Fix it.
02:55:017 (1,2,1,2,1,2) - You did this for SR. I heard the music. You did this just to increase the SR.
03:22:291 (1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,1) - Nothing here has any redeeming value. Redo it all.
03:26:445 (1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,1,2,1,2,1) - All you did here was put down notes on totally random areas.
03:28:753 (1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2) - Gut this. I'm not joking. This is the absolute worst pattern you have EVER done. This is the epitome of overmapping, and you know it!
03:44:445 (1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1) - The note progression is not that overly dramatic.
03:52:522 (1,2) - This jump is just atrocious. You're rolling through streams, and then you decide a jump with nearly a DS of 12 is needed. Revolting.
04:00:022 (2,1) - Congrats, you made a jump with 24.16 DS just because you could. Most troll maps I have don't come close to that.
05:07:720 (2,1,2) - This is vile. Stop doing these things.
05:15:810 (2,1,2) - You did the same thing here. What is wrong with you?

Last edited by Seijiro 2016-09-23T10:31:16+00:00, edited 1 time in total.

fieryrage

Former osu! Champion: 2023 / Mapping Architect

1,424 posts

Joined November 2013

fieryrage 2016-09-23T00:24:32+00:00

fucks sake

Extreme jumps with no musical reasoning, sky high DS at random times, streams that just decide to jump to some random part of the playing field with no warning, buckshot spread patterns with no cohesive structure, streams that space out to absurd degrees, rampant abuse of SV changes and BPM modification to cover up lazy mapping, slider jumps that clearly are just cases of Ctrl+H and Ctrl+J abuse, and worst of all, using the music genre as your own little shield to justify every little moment of "I map like this because fuck you, I'm Mazzerin" you can stuff in your pathetic and self-subservient maps.

was sergio supposed to remove that

literally
everything you just listed
is in every new ranked map.

"extreme jumps" fycho or any pp map ever
"streams that just decide to jump to some random part of the playing field" cry thunder / practically any wub song
"streams that space out to absurd degrees" also any new ranked stream-heavy map
"abuse of SV changes" literally every map nowadays has this
"BPM modification" are you actually retarded or don't know how awful timing metal / punk songs are
"ctrl+h and ctrl+j abuse" the fuck is wrong with doing that?

if you try hating on someone for their style then you're just being an ass and should (to put it kindly) stop mapping.

i personally hate mazzerin maps but at least they have a stylistic view on them that i can get behind and respect.
like seriously, what is this "mod" roflmao

~~gonna give a serious mod in a bit for this btw, won't be going over streams much cuz im shit but let's see how "bad" these extreme jumps actually are~~

fuckz

00:11:872 (1,2) - im probably just really bad at this game but i think a jump would fit here better than a stack tbh :d (goes for everything like this)
00:17:940 (7) - ncing this instead and making 00:18:614 (2) - notes fits the guitar rhythm a lot better here imo
00:43:894 (1) - that red point + curve after is why i get nightmares about sliders
00:47:602 (1) - wouldn't a low-ds'd stream fit here better? idk maybe im retarded
00:51:647 (3,1) - pls dont stak u didnt do this b4

01:14:399 (1) - what is this nc tbh
01:24:343 (3) - nc?
01:25:017 (2) - ^
01:27:714 (9) - ^ (you nc'd 1/4s like this before so ya)
01:30:411 (1) - ok i dont erven understand this nc pattern im just gonna assume its ur own thing so y
01:35:382 (1) - kind of weird playability wise but i dont really see how else you can improve the pattern here, maybe stacking this on 01:35:467 (1) - or making it closer would work but h
01:41:534 (1) - pretty pointless nc here tho
02:15:578 (1) - idk why you curved this 1 and nothing else lo
02:19:286 (1,2,3,4) - i get what you were going for here but the angling of this is pretty awkward comparatively speaking, esp. considering 02:19:371 (2,3) - this has different DS
02:26:365 (1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1) - i have no idea how you managed to make this play well ur a saint
02:59:230 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10) - feels like there should be more emphasis on these instead of just a downward stack
03:14:907 (1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2) - transition here could be improved, i mean it's going from 178 bpm to 260 here so maybe 1/4 repeats for the first two? (03:14:907 (1,2,1,2) - these ones)
03:15:830 (1) - ik you're following the guitar but idk i feel the drum is a lot more potent here, also pretty awkward going from that to 03:19:522 (1) - the rhythm presented here in 4 seconds
03:30:599 (1,2,3,1,2,3) - add a few repeat sliders here to introduce the 1/3 rhythm? doesn't really matter since it's going from high to low bpm but stil lo
03:38:214 (2,3) - kind of weird place for a stack
03:43:060 (1,2) - would be better as a triple tbh
03:44:907 (1,2,1,2) - one of the actual only few points i agree with eon on--feels like if you focused on the guitar here 03:15:830 (1) - you should focus on it here as well
03:45:945 (5) - y does this not start on white tick tho
04:30:474 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1) - following guitar here is pretty dum tbh the drums are a lot more potent here
05:08:900 (1,2,3,4) - tbh making the first few of these repeat sliders would ease the player into this but fuck it this maps 9 stars

mostly aesthetics but good map otherwise, great job mazzerin keep it up proud of you

Last edited by fieryrage 2016-09-23T15:51:06+00:00, edited 5 times in total.

Kroytz

703 posts

Joined February 2013

Kroytz 2016-09-23T01:33:29+00:00

I really like how you did this: 03:22:291 (1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2) -
But as monstrata said, I too think the jumps over at 03:26:445 (1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,1,2,1,2,1) - are a bit overdone, in terms of spacing at least. And of course it makes this 03:28:753 (1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2) - feel weak. The guitar riffs sound like it could make a neater or uglier (depending how you feel) pattern since half the sliders move and the other half stay stationary so it looks kind of awkward but maybe that's just me. I'm wondering what's the harm in trying out something like this? Probably doesn't fit to your style but it's just an idea: https://osu.ppy.sh/ss/6156734 (Sliders 1,2 are copied and rotated 30 degrees, then repeated. The first 3 pairs play going inwards and the repeated part plays moving in one-direction similar to how you have it.)

03:25:176 (2,3,1) - I also don't like this because it feels too sudden. The riff can be a kick slider somewhere around 105: 341 imo

03:26:214 (1,2,3) - I believe this makes more sense rhythmically to the song for snaps and placement cuz that 1/3 repeating is a bit weird http://puu.sh/rkDrs/e111c482f6.jpg

04:56:260 (1,1,1,1,1,1) - don't know if necessary to NC, I hear the loud drums but seems unnecessary, the spacing + hitsounding is good enough.

05:03:844 (1,2,3,4,1,2) - Starting the stream upwards makes for some good flow http://puu.sh/rkDzb/1e327a3f82.jpg

05:07:889 (1) - rotate so it's facing 05:08:057 (2) - ?

I like the map for the most part, the stream jumps towards the end are kinda cool since it's low-bpm and fits the theme. That section around 3 1/2 minutes is the only thing that's a bit iffy for me. I don't know if this is your best map but you did well in mapping to the song and that's good enough for me!

Monstrata

Elite Mapper: Aspirant

4,661 posts

Joined May 2013

Monstrata 2016-09-23T02:26:31+00:00

[ Eon Fox ] wrote:
Oh... joy.

00:06:479 (4,5) - I'm sorry, but this is excessive. In less than 2/10ths of a second, you make the player go almost entirely across the screen, with AR10 and OD10. No, this is not okay.
00:23:895 (3,4) - I get that this is 178bpm with a relatively low SV, but that still doesn't mean you should you 10+ DS. I can't even remember seeing that outside of VERY slow songs or TAG maps. This is neither, and considering the sound mapped, it makes no sense when compared to the next combo.
00:56:366 (5,6) - So, you made a jump with less than a 1/10th of a second gap that large because...?
00:57:714 (3,1) - This is a jump all the way across the screen with a comfy 84ms to react with. There's no possible musical justification for this.

I respect your opinionated opinion, but I think you've made a gross miscalculation. You evaluated that cross-screen jumps are too fast to be jumped to when they are below a certain timing threshold (1/10th of a second, or 84 ms, referencing your mod). I believe you've underestimated the physical abilities of exceptional humans.

For example, let's consider Tianna Bartoletta's gold medal jump in the Women's Long Jump during the Rio Olympics of 2016. Here is a video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XTL3CexKyRo.

She was able to jump a distance of 7.17 meters in 0.96 seconds. That's a jumping distance of approximately 70 cm per 100ms. Now, lets consider the fact that most people only play osu! with a mouse/tablet playfield of around 7 to 14 cm. Do you see? People are able to jump enormous distances in extremely fast amounts of time. If Bartoletta played osu, i'm confident she could do cross screen jumps in under 20ms.

Bartoletta was able to jump 7.17 meters using only two legs. Imagine how far she could have jumped using five fingers?

---

On a more serious note:

00:57:377 (1,3) - Overlap is quite hard to see imo, considering the streams before it.
00:57:882 (1,2) - Tying with the pattern above though, you create a really big jump onto the triplet here, but I don't think the red tick is the object of emphasis here. You don't really emphasize the beginning of triplets/streams. If you make the angle less sharp, then I think maybe the spacing might be okay, but right now I think it draws too much attention.
01:14:399 (1) - NC doesn't seem necessary to me.
01:24:006 (2) - How about Ctrl+G'ing for a flowbreak? It would fit the guitar imo.
01:28:051 (1,2,1,2) - These could be arranged a bit more evenly imo...

~

01:54:343 (1,2,3,4,5,6,1) - Spacing is too similar to 01:53:500 (3,4,1,2,3,4,1) - imo. It's really easy to misread as 1/4 streams.
02:05:130 (1,2,3,4,5,6,1) - This is a bit better, but i'd scale it down a bit more too.
02:26:955 (2,1) - Going by your patterning, I think a larger jump here would fit better.
02:51:646 (5,6) - How about using kicksliders here to emphasize the drum? It would lead into the stream section better too imo.
03:16:522 (1) - i would rotate it like 15 degrees? and the reblanket. That way you can avoid a slider-border overlap with 03:16:176 (1) - .
03:26:445 (1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,1,2,1,2,1,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2) - Yea, I think this still needs a bit more spacing restructuring but well...
03:44:445 (1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2) - I would actually say, compared to the jumps earlier, these could actually be bigger. Maybe consider tilting them a bit more diagonally so you have more playfield area to work with.
04:02:075 (2) - I really don't think this circle is necessary. it sounds overmapped to me too

.
04:13:620 (1,1) - I think its better to remain consistent.
04:55:754 (1,2,3,4,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1) - The NC"ing and structuring felt a bit odd here. Maybe you can clarify... but it sounds like the entirety of 04:55:754 - 04:56:765 - is one stream pattern. Like everything in between here sounds like it should be in one combo. Felt a bit weird when you went to a different NC and spacing pattern after 04:56:091 - . Looks a bit disconnected idk, maybe you ahve a reason tho.
05:03:422 (4,1) - I don't think a stream-jump is necessary here. The note on 05:03:507 (1) - isn't particiuarly emphasized imo
05:44:967 (3,4,5,6) - Same pattern? I dont see why this needs two different spacing changes + angle change. Doesn't seem special.

Okay good luck!

Last edited by Monstrata 2016-09-23T02:55:31+00:00, edited 1 time in total.

7ambda

2,599 posts

Joined January 2015

7ambda 2016-09-23T03:22:24+00:00

[ Eon Fox ] wrote:
something...

I'll be surprised if he even looks at your mod. lol

Last edited by Seijiro 2016-09-23T10:34:08+00:00, edited 4 times in total.

m1ts

398 posts

Joined April 2013

m1ts 2016-09-23T03:29:38+00:00

00:56:029 - 01:04:118 is in 3/4 timing signature i think

01:01:759 (1,2,3,4,5,6,1) - i know its hard to ignore the drums here but to switch from guitar emphasis to that feels really random while playing, its hard to sightread a sudden change like that so it would be better if you kept the pattern you have here going 01:00:411 (1,2,3,4) -
01:29:399 (1,2,3,4,1) - more emphasis on the guitar would be cool here
01:46:927 (5) - https://osu.ppy.sh/ss/6157114 looks and probably plays better like this
02:17:601 (1,2,1,2,3,4) - i feel like this rhythm fits better here, the second kick slider you have isnt really emphasising on anything
03:15:830 man i know this section has really obvious and loud guitar but the background riff is so badass, its upsetting to see it be ignored... especially here 03:18:599 (1) - highly doubt you'd change it though since its mostly personal preference
03:23:906 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,1) - this looks awful to play mostly because of the uncalled for slider here 03:24:253 (3) - something like this looks and plays way better, but its mostly just the misuse of the kick slider that makes it so awkward so moving it to the downbeat should be enough
03:26:907 (1) - i also feel like these jumps are a bit overdone, and not only that they don't really fit the guitar riff imo, but thats just me
03:52:522 (1,2) - ok maybe too high of spacing here too

neurosis

508 posts

Joined March 2012

neurosis 2016-09-23T04:15:52+00:00

.

Last edited by neurosis 2018-11-28T17:07:54+00:00, edited 4 times in total.

Enkidu

97 posts

Joined May 2014

Enkidu 2016-09-23T07:09:44+00:00

[ Eon Fox ] wrote:
something...

something...

artistry

a beatmap is literally supposed to be a mapper's artistic expression of a song, friend.

ontopic: i would mod this if i knew how the hell to do so, but this is way beyond my capability, which doesn't reach a grade schooler's long jump distance to begin with. looks really pretty though, have fun with this mazzerin

Last edited by Seijiro 2016-09-23T10:37:27+00:00, edited 1 time in total.

Mazziv

998 posts

Joined July 2013

Mazziv 2016-09-23T09:46:39+00:00

[ Eon Fox ] wrote:
something...

i think you can do it better,make one on your own LOL

Last edited by Seijiro 2016-09-23T10:39:15+00:00, edited 1 time in total.

Bearizm

1,213 posts

Joined October 2013

Bearizm 2016-09-23T12:41:55+00:00

I respect you as a mapper, that you have to endure all of this. Good luck in ranking this!

[ Eon Fox ]

302 posts

Joined September 2014

[ Eon Fox ] 2016-09-23T13:35:05+00:00

Okay, let's try this again.

Apologies aren't sincere when they are a matter of "I'm sorry that I was right". Nope, I was in no way right and I was in the wrong in every way. Instead of being nice or constructive, I decided to be the most incredibly salty bitch that the world has to offer. I can't in my right mind defend my past post, because all it was was a long brown streak of vitriolic bashing because I, like always, thought the best option was to idiotically retch my two cents in the most degrading and deplorable fashion I could. I mean, this is a WIP, for crying out loud! Why am I acting like this is the end product?

Mazzerin, look, you're a lot better of a mapper than I give you credit for. I may not agree with a lot of your mapping decisions, but that in no way entitles me to be such a nasty prick towards you. All I hope is that I may ask for your forgiveness on this matter, because I had, in my ignorance and abrasiveness, personally attacked you as a human, as a mapper, and as a member of the osu community.

I fucked up, okay? Just... please don't hate me the same way I hated you.

Last edited by [ Eon Fox ] 2016-09-23T15:06:43+00:00, edited 1 time in total.

Litharrale

705 posts

Joined August 2013

Litharrale 2016-09-23T14:44:57+00:00

null

-- --

4 posts

Joined April 2014

-- -- 2016-09-23T16:33:30+00:00

mazzerin grazus berniukas

Mazzerin

493 posts

Joined July 2013

Topic Starter

Mazzerin 2016-09-23T20:31:26+00:00

@bubblun
no changes, it's all about angles of 1/6 and 1/4 sliders, which either work as hold motions or 1/2 aiming motions (they require no motions of actually moving your cursor to the slider ends), I placed them based on visuals most of the time
@fieryage
00:11:872 (1,2) - this does not warrant a jump, this does 00:06:479 (4,5) - it's based on rhythmic guitar
00:17:940 (1) - changed nc
00:47:602 (1) - no it wouldn't
00:51:647 (3) - ok
01:14:399 (4) - remove
01:24:343 (3) - I focus on strong guitar hits like the ones nc'd here only
01:27:714 (9) - there was no part like this yet
01:30:411 (9) - removed this
01:35:382 (1) - it wouldn't change much except it starting to look like crap
01:41:534 (1) - rhythmic guitar
02:15:578 (1) - same as 02:11:534 (1) - 02:19:623 (1) - so I did
02:19:286 (1,2,3,4) - angle is supposed to be awkward cause of guitar, but the spacing is consistent?
02:59:230 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10) - uhh seems fine to me since it's like a lead in to the next section which isn't too aggressive
03:14:907 (1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2) - already talked this over a bunch of times, I feel like it's necessary to have them all at least clickable
03:15:830 (1) - if I try to listen to the song all I hear is the lead guitar in the foreground here, I'm pretty sure anyone listening to the song for the first time would agree
03:30:599 (1,2,3,1,2,3) - as you said, it wouldn't matter much, and it's not like those notes are some rhythm changes in a calm part on drums, this is the lead guitar we're talking about here
03:38:214 (2,3) - did it here 03:34:753 (4,5) - too, what's wrong with a stack?
03:43:060 (1,2) - snares are too strong here, so I just use a 1/4 slider
03:44:907 (1,2,1,2) - the rhythm guitar does its pattern here it did a few times which I already mapped here, and combined with the section change/lead guitar high note hold it makes it pretty fitting, especially the fact that it leads to a slower section
03:15:830 (1) - the riffs aren't as overwhelming here - the lead guitar is though, I focus on it in the same places, like here 03:22:291 (1) - or 03:26:445 (1,2,1,2) - 03:33:368 (1) - (both lead and rhythm guitars here tho) 03:40:753 (1) -
03:45:945 (5) - rhythm guitar holds note on that and 03:46:291 (7) - and 03:46:637 (9) - (but it's cut off by the beginning of drum roll)
04:30:474 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1) - best I could do is change them to 1/4 sliders on the empty spots, but I feel like it makes much more sense this way
05:08:900 (1,2,3,4) - this is my favorite part of the song, anyways they're nowhere near as hard as any of the streams in the kiai
@kroytz
03:25:176 (2,3,1) - HMM triples spaced like that play really well imo, and I don't want to have it as a kick slider
03:26:214 (1,2,3) - nah it's definitely 1/3 3 notes, then it's 1 (the slider which is 1/4 because guitar sound is extended) + 1/6 double, but I mapped it as 1/4 (the triple)
04:56:260 (1,1,1,1,1,1) - well first of all it's the most melodic and spaced part in the solo, then it has the drums but those don't really call for any ncs. Thirdly, the spacing would make some follow points appear by the end which would make it look really ugly compared to the beginning of that pattern
05:03:844 (1,2,3,4,1,2) - I actually wanted it to be placed somewhere there, this 05:03:844 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4) - seems to be completely disjointed from all the fuckery that happened right before it (the solo)
05:07:889 (1) - they look good cause of absolute spacing like this, would face 05:08:563 (1) - too much if I rotated
@montrata
00:57:714 (3) - uhhh I don't know, especially since it's AR10, but I moved it out of the way of the stream
00:57:882 (1,2) - you're right, moved it so there's a jump to 00:58:051 (1) - instead
01:24:006 (2) - is that called a flowbreak? you barely have to move your hand there, but ok ctrl+g'd
01:28:051 (1,2,1,2) - ok
01:54:343 (1,2,3,4,5,6,1) - I stuck with the same spacing I used here 01:01:759 (1,2,3,4,5,6,1) - also, wouldn't reducing it mean it would be similar to 01:52:995 (1,2,3,4,1) - ? no perfect way out
02:26:955 (2,1) - ok
02:51:646 (1,2) - ok
03:16:522 (1) - ok
03:44:445 (1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2) - ok
04:02:075 (2) - whatever ok
04:13:620 (1,1) - it really makes no difference, it's 1 click just like the rest and it sounds cool with the hitsounding
04:55:754 (1,1,1,1) - right, nc'd all these as well, i explained it somewhere before here
05:03:422 (4,1) - it always had jumpstreams on strong rhythmic guitar hits
05:45:052 (4,5,6) - are snare drums so I had to change them somehow, I used to have it consistent but it was pretty stupid
@mithew
00:56:029 - 01:04:118 - right changed
01:01:759 (1,2,3,4,5,6,1) - guitar only does 1/2 and then keeps going at 1/1 here tho so what I could do is split stream on 01:01:927 (4) - which I have now
01:29:399 (1) - you're right, it's higher pitch than the other ones
01:46:927 (5) - oh ye this changes my perception of playability of the entire map, on a serious note though - changed
02:17:769 (2) - maybe it's just me but I think that rhythm guitar note is just as strong as the rest here? hmm
03:24:137 (1) - that wouldn't follow the music though, these 03:24:137 (1,2) - must be circles that are spaced more compared to circles before, and 03:24:253 (3) - note is a hold, so it must be a 1/4 slider
03:52:522 (1) - this is a section changer just like 03:48:830 (1,2) - , I make them big on purpose for more impact
____
some conclusions based on what multiple people mentioned
03:15:830 (1) - remapped to fit rhythmic guitar more
03:26:907 (1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1) - lol I think it's underspaced now compared to everything else but ok

m1ts

398 posts

Joined April 2013

m1ts 2016-09-23T22:29:46+00:00

remapped section looks so much better now good job

fat pear

264 posts

Joined July 2014

fat pear 2016-09-24T00:30:35+00:00

Mazzerin wrote:
@bubblun
no changes, it's all about angles of 1/6 and 1/4 sliders, which either work as hold motions or 1/2 aiming motions (they require no motions of actually moving your cursor to the slider ends), I placed them based on visuals most of the time
@fieryage
00:11:872 (1,2) - this does not warrant a jump, this does 00:06:479 (4,5) - it's based on rhythmic guitar
00:17:940 (1) - changed nc
00:47:602 (1) - no it wouldn't
00:51:647 (3) - ok
01:14:399 (4) - remove
01:24:343 (3) - I focus on strong guitar hits like the ones nc'd here only
01:27:714 (9) - there was no part like this yet
01:30:411 (9) - removed this
01:35:382 (1) - it wouldn't change much except it starting to look like crap
01:41:534 (1) - rhythmic guitar
02:15:578 (1) - same as 02:11:534 (1) - 02:19:623 (1) - so I did
02:19:286 (1,2,3,4) - angle is supposed to be awkward cause of guitar, but the spacing is consistent?
02:59:230 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10) - uhh seems fine to me since it's like a lead in to the next section which isn't too aggressive
03:14:907 (1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2) - already talked this over a bunch of times, I feel like it's necessary to have them all at least clickable
03:15:830 (1) - if I try to listen to the song all I hear is the lead guitar in the foreground here, I'm pretty sure anyone listening to the song for the first time would agree
03:30:599 (1,2,3,1,2,3) - as you said, it wouldn't matter much, and it's not like those notes are some rhythm changes in a calm part on drums, this is the lead guitar we're talking about here
03:38:214 (2,3) - did it here 03:34:753 (4,5) - too, what's wrong with a stack?
03:43:060 (1,2) - snares are too strong here, so I just use a 1/4 slider
03:44:907 (1,2,1,2) - the rhythm guitar does its pattern here it did a few times which I already mapped here, and combined with the section change/lead guitar high note hold it makes it pretty fitting, especially the fact that it leads to a slower section
03:15:830 (1) - the riffs aren't as overwhelming here - the lead guitar is though, I focus on it in the same places, like here 03:22:291 (1) - or 03:26:445 (1,2,1,2) - 03:33:368 (1) - (both lead and rhythm guitars here tho) 03:40:753 (1) -
03:45:945 (5) - rhythm guitar holds note on that and 03:46:291 (7) - and 03:46:637 (9) - (but it's cut off by the beginning of drum roll)
04:30:474 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1) - best I could do is change them to 1/4 sliders on the empty spots, but I feel like it makes much more sense this way
05:08:900 (1,2,3,4) - this is my favorite part of the song, anyways they're nowhere near as hard as any of the streams in the kiai
@kroytz
03:25:176 (2,3,1) - HMM triples spaced like that play really well imo, and I don't want to have it as a kick slider
03:26:214 (1,2,3) - nah it's definitely 1/3 3 notes, then it's 1 (the slider which is 1/4 because guitar sound is extended) + 1/6 double, but I mapped it as 1/4 (the triple)
04:56:260 (1,1,1,1,1,1) - well first of all it's the most melodic and spaced part in the solo, then it has the drums but those don't really call for any ncs. Thirdly, the spacing would make some follow points appear by the end which would make it look really ugly compared to the beginning of that pattern
05:03:844 (1,2,3,4,1,2) - I actually wanted it to be placed somewhere there, this 05:03:844 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4) - seems to be completely disjointed from all the fuckery that happened right before it (the solo)
05:07:889 (1) - they look good cause of absolute spacing like this, would face 05:08:563 (1) - too much if I rotated
@montrata
00:57:714 (3) - uhhh I don't know, especially since it's AR10, but I moved it out of the way of the stream
00:57:882 (1,2) - you're right, moved it so there's a jump to 00:58:051 (1) - instead
01:24:006 (2) - is that called a flowbreak? you barely have to move your hand there, but ok ctrl+g'd
01:28:051 (1,2,1,2) - ok
01:54:343 (1,2,3,4,5,6,1) - I stuck with the same spacing I used here 01:01:759 (1,2,3,4,5,6,1) - also, wouldn't reducing it mean it would be similar to 01:52:995 (1,2,3,4,1) - ? no perfect way out
02:26:955 (2,1) - ok
02:51:646 (1,2) - ok
03:16:522 (1) - ok
03:44:445 (1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2) - ok
04:02:075 (2) - whatever ok
04:13:620 (1,1) - it really makes no difference, it's 1 click just like the rest and it sounds cool with the hitsounding
04:55:754 (1,1,1,1) - right, nc'd all these as well, i explained it somewhere before here
05:03:422 (4,1) - it always had jumpstreams on strong rhythmic guitar hits
05:45:052 (4,5,6) - are snare drums so I had to change them somehow, I used to have it consistent but it was pretty stupid
@mithew
00:56:029 - 01:04:118 - right changed
01:01:759 (1,2,3,4,5,6,1) - guitar only does 1/2 and then keeps going at 1/1 here tho so what I could do is split stream on 01:01:927 (4) - which I have now
01:29:399 (1) - you're right, it's higher pitch than the other ones
01:46:927 (5) - oh ye this changes my perception of playability of the entire map, on a serious note though - changed
02:17:769 (2) - maybe it's just me but I think that rhythm guitar note is just as strong as the rest here? hmm
03:24:137 (1) - that wouldn't follow the music though, these 03:24:137 (1,2) - must be circles that are spaced more compared to circles before, and 03:24:253 (3) - note is a hold, so it must be a 1/4 slider
03:52:522 (1) - this is a section changer just like 03:48:830 (1,2) - , I make them big on purpose for more impact
____
some conclusions based on what multiple people mentioned
03:15:830 (1) - remapped to fit rhythmic guitar more
03:26:907 (1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1) - lol I think it's underspaced now compared to everything else but ok

woah dude separate ur names

pishifat

osu! Paragon

3,818 posts

Joined August 2013

pishifat 2016-09-25T06:31:56+00:00

00:31:760 - 00:56:029 - red lines doing nothing
04:00:137 (1) - 5% is ok for the reverses/end, but head still lands on loud thing and needs feedback. this is ok
04:02:665 (2,3,1) - can you do like anything else? current thing is so unfair. slider, grouping the 2,3 differently, or even simplifying to 1/4 could be acceptable tbh

sampleset 7 hitsounds are unused

Mazzerin

493 posts

Joined July 2013

Topic Starter

Mazzerin 2016-09-25T12:51:47+00:00

pishifat wrote:
00:31:760 - 00:56:029 - red lines doing nothing
fuck I'm an idiot
04:00:137 (1) - 5% is ok for the reverses/end, but head still lands on loud thing and needs feedback. this is ok
ok, but why gyazo pishi please
04:02:665 (2,3,1) - can you do like anything else? current thing is so unfair. slider, grouping the 2,3 differently, or even simplifying to 1/4 could be acceptable tbh
ok

sampleset 7 hitsounds are unused
woops

hehe

1,975 posts

Joined November 2012

hehe 2016-09-25T13:31:05+00:00

deceptionp
you might run into problems with combo4 being too similar to bg http://i.imgur.com/yAqZ8w0.png
00:10:187 (1,2) - could try something like this for the guitar riffs http://i.imgur.com/f1mr3ot.png
01:01:422 (1,2,1) - feels like the jump should actually be on 1, instead of on 2. right now the movement to 2 is pretty damn quick and far with almost not momentum from the stream itself, could try something like this instead http://i.imgur.com/tDMVSQO.jpg
01:01:759 (1,2,3,1,2,3,1) - you probably got lots of complaints about this but this is pretty damn confusing, if you wanted to have emphasis on the redtick, an NC isn't really that distinct. you could try clearer patterns like http://i.imgur.com/pMK1Wds.png
01:09:175 (1,2,3,4) - i think using kicksldiers or repeats fit much better with the drums as well as giving even more impact tothe downbeat afterwards, a streamjump doesn't really do it justice http://i.imgur.com/S9uci0Y.png
01:19:961 (4,5,6,7) - similar to above, could change to a repeat slider
01:28:051 (1,2,1,2) - would be cooler if they did the same gimmick, its pretty weird now that they sound similar but play much differently
01:35:382 (1) - coul drop the nc on this to make it even more obvious that its on a bluetick, i'd much prefer extending the repeat thoguh
02:08:837 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1) - could easy use higher spacing changes, right now you can play this really flowy without thinking about snapping and it really dampens the impact of the strong riffs here. just an example of what i mean by having more snapping between streams http://i.imgur.com/2DiTQvW.png
02:18:949 (2,3,4,1,2) - movement becomes a little awkwward here, with 2 > 3 being a snappy motion, then slowing down immediately to fit the stream, and then having to change directions as well. i think stackin 02:19:118 (3,4,1) - would solve this issue while still eexpressing the main idea of a jump to the strem and emphasis on 02:19:286 (1,2,3,4) - . like so http://i.imgur.com/SSH5LFf.png
02:23:668 (1,2,1,2) - personally strongly dislike kickslider overlaps stacked like this, they make the sliderbody very unclear which compromise reading substantially. partial overlaps are much more ocmfortable to read, but thats just me hating on this pattern
02:26:534 (1) - 02:26:871 (1) - could drop the NCs to make it easier to read here
02:35:298 (1,2,3,4,5,6) - could replace with kicksliders to match riffs, and mainly to give impact to the next downbeat, its p loud
02:50:635 (7,8,9) - super confusing to play, cuz i legit thought it was 1/6 and was merged into 02:50:972 (1) - with a streamjump. could replace with kickslider+1 circle
03:26:330 (2,1) - 03:40:522 (8,9,10,11,1) - some stuff i noticed that you do 'organizational stacks' but they actually affect gameplay quite a bit, might get really difficult when its not done in a consistent manner.
03:26:907 (1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1) - blah, the way these are grouped are really odd, considering they aren't actually 1-2 grouping. the recurring patterns is every 2 beats, so ideally you want to NC every 2 beats, instead of 1. with this in mind we can avoid the 1 note NC as well, which also makes it easier to transition to the red tick NCs afterwards.
04:14:631 (1) - these don't really do anything other than random clutter, its not really noticeable tha you hit a 1/8 slider mixed in a stream, especially when cramped like this.
04:52:215 (2,3,1,2,1,2) - i got terminal aids from this, i applaud anyone who can consistently land this
05:03:760 (4,1) - dynamics like these were cool, could have applied this more

cant mod this lol

Mazzerin

493 posts

Joined July 2013

Topic Starter

Mazzerin 2016-09-25T17:18:59+00:00

handsome wrote:
deceptionp
you might run into problems with combo4 being too similar to bg http://i.imgur.com/yAqZ8w0.png
ok change
00:10:187 (1,2) - could try something like this for the guitar riffs http://i.imgur.com/f1mr3ot.png
ok, also changed here 00:26:592 (2) - cause rhythmic guitar also has hit there
01:01:422 (1,2,1) - feels like the jump should actually be on 1, instead of on 2. right now the movement to 2 is pretty damn quick and far with almost not momentum from the stream itself, could try something like this instead http://i.imgur.com/tDMVSQO.jpg
true!
01:01:759 (1,2,3,1,2,3,1) - you probably got lots of complaints about this but this is pretty damn confusing, if you wanted to have emphasis on the redtick, an NC isn't really that distinct. you could try clearer patterns like http://i.imgur.com/pMK1Wds.png
haha noone complained about that, it plays like a stack, which leads to your point (no emphasis on red tick ) - changed
01:09:175 (1,2,3,4) - i think using kicksldiers or repeats fit much better with the drums as well as giving even more impact tothe downbeat afterwards, a streamjump doesn't really do it justice http://i.imgur.com/S9uci0Y.png
true
01:19:961 (4,5,6,7) - similar to above, could change to a repeat slider
true
01:28:051 (1,2,1,2) - would be cooler if they did the same gimmick, its pretty weird now that they sound similar but play much differently
nah first 2 got snares second 2 got bass+raids or whatever the fuck that is
01:35:382 (1) - coul drop the nc on this to make it even more obvious that its on a bluetick, i'd much prefer extending the repeat thoguh
ok drop the nc
02:08:837 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1) - could easy use higher spacing changes, right now you can play this really flowy without thinking about snapping and it really dampens the impact of the strong riffs here. just an example of what i mean by having more snapping between streams http://i.imgur.com/2DiTQvW.png
yea true those are barely even jumpstreams right now
02:18:949 (2,3,4,1,2) - movement becomes a little awkwward here, with 2 > 3 being a snappy motion, then slowing down immediately to fit the stream, and then having to change directions as well. i think stackin 02:19:118 (3,4,1) - would solve this issue while still eexpressing the main idea of a jump to the strem and emphasis on 02:19:286 (1,2,3,4) - . like so http://i.imgur.com/SSH5LFf.png
ok
02:23:668 (1,2,1,2) - personally strongly dislike kickslider overlaps stacked like this, they make the sliderbody very unclear which compromise reading substantially. partial overlaps are much more ocmfortable to read, but thats just me hating on this pattern
it's good
02:26:534 (1) - 02:26:871 (1) - could drop the NCs to make it easier to read here
more colors is better!
02:35:298 (1,2,3,4,5,6) - could replace with kicksliders to match riffs, and mainly to give impact to the next downbeat, its p loud
ok
02:50:635 (7,8,9) - super confusing to play, cuz i legit thought it was 1/6 and was merged into 02:50:972 (1) - with a streamjump. could replace with kickslider+1 circle
ok fair enough changed
03:26:330 (2,1) - 03:40:522 (8,9,10,11,1) - some stuff i noticed that you do 'organizational stacks' but they actually affect gameplay quite a bit, might get really difficult when its not done in a consistent manner.
hmmm no one mentioned those and I think they're fine on AR10
03:26:907 (1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1) - blah, the way these are grouped are really odd, considering they aren't actually 1-2 grouping. the recurring patterns is every 2 beats, so ideally you want to NC every 2 beats, instead of 1. with this in mind we can avoid the 1 note NC as well, which also makes it easier to transition to the red tick NCs afterwards.
hard to tell, the first note of 2 beats is always strong, which leads to a feel that the second beat always has weaker/lower pitch than the first one, which is how I spaced/nc'd it. Also it would make this NC consist of a beat and a half 03:27:830 (1) - and this one of half of a beat 03:28:637 (1) - , cause these are grouped every one beat for sure 03:28:176 (1) - 03:28:407 (1) -
04:14:631 (1) - these don't really do anything other than random clutter, its not really noticeable tha you hit a 1/8 slider mixed in a stream, especially when cramped like this.
it's not meaningful in gameplay, but it is in hitsounds, that's what makes it cool
04:52:215 (2,3,1,2,1,2) - i got terminal aids from this, i applaud anyone who can consistently land this
start off by playing them as actual doubles with pauses so your brain/reading gets used to processing something like this, when you're fast enough you can actually feel when you press twice and jump over to the next group easily without interrupting your fingers. also helps to start off with 4+ note jumpstreams, then go down to 4 and practice those, bpm is also a factor.
05:03:760 (4,1) - dynamics like these were cool, could have applied this more
yea it is cool, suggest where else to apply it though? I think it fits here because that next stream sounds completely different and leads to the next section, couldn't find anything else to apply this to

cant mod this lol
aww don't feel bad, this was actually the best mod so far in my opinion

Raiden

osu! Alumni

2,419 posts

Joined January 2013

Raiden 2016-09-25T17:32:35+00:00

holy crap have my babies

pishifat

osu! Paragon

3,818 posts

Joined August 2013

pishifat 2016-09-26T00:15:31+00:00

bubble

Meteo L-Drago

795 posts

Joined October 2014

Meteo L-Drago 2016-09-26T00:20:14+00:00

wow

Bursthammy

1,254 posts

Joined May 2015

Bursthammy 2016-09-26T01:09:11+00:00

pishifat wrote:
bubble

o jeez

Nevo

Global Moderator

1,193 posts

Joined November 2015

Nevo 2016-09-26T01:34:06+00:00

holy

Kroytz

703 posts

Joined February 2013

Kroytz 2016-09-26T01:53:11+00:00

I'm still on the fence about a 1.0* diff spike within a 3 second time period...

fieryrage

Former osu! Champion: 2023 / Mapping Architect

1,424 posts

Joined November 2013

fieryrage 2016-09-26T01:57:00+00:00

wheres the obligatory pishi bubble meme u can tjust say bub thats illegal

GRR SNARL GROWL

288 posts

Joined July 2014

GRR SNARL GROWL 2016-09-26T02:18:04+00:00

fieryrage wrote:
wheres the obligatory pishi bubble meme u can tjust say bub thats illegal

ya

7ambda

2,599 posts

Joined January 2015

7ambda 2016-09-26T03:04:20+00:00

This map might be a lot harder to get past qualified than The Empress (especially with that huge diff spike). You should probably have QATs look at the map before it gets ranked so that it doesn't have to be dq'd.

Cryptic

551 posts

Joined December 2013

Cryptic 2016-09-26T07:11:47+00:00

F1r3tar wrote:
This map might be a lot harder to get past qualified than The Empress (especially with that huge diff spike). You should probably have QATs look at the map before it gets ranked so that it doesn't have to be dq'd.

Community requests the DQs now-a-days rather than the QAT. And rest assured there'll always be at least one person that'll complain, no matter how tame a map may be.

Wiped

87 posts

Joined August 2014

Wiped 2016-09-26T12:45:55+00:00

Kroytz wrote:
I'm still on the fence about a 1.0* diff spike within a 3 second time period...

as if meta jump maps didn't have those too lol

Danii

250 posts

Joined September 2015

Danii 2016-09-26T14:27:20+00:00

hey mazzerin
are you sure that part from 05:21:035 - and to end of song is a 1/4?
i think that this part is a 1/6, really, and also time sugnature is 4/4
BPM is 118.667 for 1/6, just in case
(i noticed that last greenline in 05:58:450 - with this new timing does not dock on 1 ms (idk why). For reminder)
and add the same timing section in 04:30:474 -

also, i want to say about few minor errors in your map (actually especially nothing to say, because mazzerin ye)

mod

00:59:905 (9) - 01:00:749 (3) - bad overlap, move (3) left, or unstack this kicksliders

01:06:140 (1) - maybe add finish? (on start of repeat)

01:11:534 (1) - ^

01:16:927 (1) - ^

01:22:320 (1) - ^

01:22:658 (2,3) - located too close

01:23:669 (1,3) - bad overlap

01:30:411 (9) - nc?

01:33:107 (9) - ^

01:43:894 (1) - stack start of kickslider with end of kickslider 01:42:882 (1) -

01:44:399 (2) - 01:45:411 (3) - stack

01:49:118 (1,2) - make here same notes as in 01:48:613 (1,2) - (copy it), because this notes (01:48:613 (1,2) - ) looks lonely

01:51:815 (7,3) - oooh too close

01:55:185 (5) - maybe stack end of kickslider with end of 01:54:006 (1) - ?

01:59:821 (5) - 02:00:663 (3) - stack

02:12:545 (5) - make here same kickslider as 02:11:534 (1) - because (1) looks lonely due own shape. Also, put nc in 02:12:545 (5) -

02:16:590 (5) - nc

02:18:865 (1,2) - here is absolutely same sounds, i dont see reason for this emphasize (except position sounds on ticks), and also repeat 02:18:612 (3) - looks lonely, make on 02:18:865 (1,2) -place repeat

02:19:286 (1,1) - too close, fir it pls

03:00:073 (1) - maybe ctrl+j? for better flow

03:04:792 (1,2) - bad overlap

03:15:253 (2) - 03:16:176 (1) - problems with stack?

03:49:060 (1) - make sure that start of stream stood exactly in the middle of stream piece 03:48:599 (1,2,3,4,1) - (move 03:49:060 (1) - and next stream to 158 217)

03:55:176 (1) - 03:55:983 (1) - fix overlap

04:00:137 (1) - stack start of repeat with end of kickslider 03:59:099 (1) -

04:11:934 (1) - stack start of kickslider with note 04:11:176 (12) -

04:14:631 (1,2) - are you sure that (2) will be good read? with same spacing between 1/8 04:14:631 (1,2) -and 1/4 04:14:715 (2,3) - . And also 1/8 repeat 04:13:620 (1) - looks lonely. Make on 04:14:631 (1,2) - another 1/8 repeat and also unstack this repeat and 04:14:799 (2,3,1) -

04:30:474 (1) - 04:30:979 (1) - 04:31:485 (1) - maybe make here kicksliders?

04:51:878 (2) - 04:52:383 (1) - bad overlap

05:11:428 (6,2) - same as above, make overlap batter (move kickslider up for example)

05:34:855 (2) - 05:35:698 (1) - overlap

05:45:052 (4,5,6) - maybe curve this stream piece to cotrast with curve stream 05:45:304 (1,2,3,4,5,6) - ?

05:53:310 (6,1) - hmm its werid that you separate streams with different combo (05:52:383 (1,2,3,4,5,6,1,2,3,4,5,6) - for example), but here you dont separate different combo. Pls unstack (6) and (1)

end of mod~

streams is fucking masterpiece
good luck

rock time

264 posts

Joined January 2015

rock time 2016-09-27T01:56:19+00:00

Kroytz wrote:
I'm still on the fence about a 1.0* diff spike within a 3 second time period...

i think it'll be just fine

Mazzerin

493 posts

Joined July 2013

Topic Starter

Mazzerin 2016-09-27T18:14:27+00:00

strategas real life mod

01:35:130 (1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1) - changed a bit to make it more neat

02:19:286 (1,2,3,4,1) - made more even

02:46:421 (4,5,6,1,2,1,2,1,2) - changed patern placement

02:55:017 (1,2,1,2,1,2) - buffed to make it more consistant

03:25:983 (1,2) - from repeat to slider circle

03:34:753 (4,5) - unstack

04:16:316 (1) - to 04:31:990 (1) - changed this section to emphasize some notes better

04:55:754 (1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,2,3,4,5,6,1) - made more even

05:31:147 (1,2,3,1,2,3,1,2,3,1,2,3,1,2,3) - changed some of these to make them more consistant

05:21:540 (1) - 05:22:552 (1) - spacing emphasis snares on every one of these

05:45:220 (6,1) - reduced jumpstream spacing

05:53:394 (1) - moved note and removed spinner

stack leniency from 3 to 2

fixed some hitsounds

fixed various spacing errors

Strategas

1,394 posts

Joined July 2013

Strategas 2016-09-27T18:18:46+00:00

2

Cryptic

551 posts

Joined December 2013

Cryptic 2016-09-27T19:09:37+00:00

Remember to respond to DaniilLillifag's mod, I'll recheck over the weekend.

Mazzerin

493 posts

Joined July 2013

Topic Starter

Mazzerin 2016-09-27T22:32:15+00:00

DaniilLillifag wrote:
hey mazzerin
are you sure that part from 05:21:035 - and to end of song is a 1/4?
i think that this part is a 1/6, really, and also time sugnature is 4/4
BPM is 118.667 for 1/6, just in case
(i noticed that last greenline in 05:58:450 - with this new timing does not dock on 1 ms (idk why). For reminder)
and add the same timing section in 04:30:474 -

also, i want to say about few minor errors in your map (actually especially nothing to say, because mazzerin ye)

mod
00:59:905 (9) - 01:00:749 (3) - bad overlap, move (3) left, or unstack this kicksliders

01:06:140 (1) - maybe add finish? (on start of repeat)

01:11:534 (1) - ^

01:16:927 (1) - ^

01:22:320 (1) - ^

01:22:658 (2,3) - located too close

01:23:669 (1,3) - bad overlap

01:30:411 (9) - nc?

01:33:107 (9) - ^

01:43:894 (1) - stack start of kickslider with end of kickslider 01:42:882 (1) -

01:44:399 (2) - 01:45:411 (3) - stack

01:49:118 (1,2) - make here same notes as in 01:48:613 (1,2) - (copy it), because this notes (01:48:613 (1,2) - ) looks lonely

01:51:815 (7,3) - oooh too close

01:55:185 (5) - maybe stack end of kickslider with end of 01:54:006 (1) - ?

01:59:821 (5) - 02:00:663 (3) - stack

02:12:545 (5) - make here same kickslider as 02:11:534 (1) - because (1) looks lonely due own shape. Also, put nc in 02:12:545 (5) -

02:16:590 (5) - nc

02:18:865 (1,2) - here is absolutely same sounds, i dont see reason for this emphasize (except position sounds on ticks), and also repeat 02:18:612 (3) - looks lonely, make on 02:18:865 (1,2) -place repeat

02:19:286 (1,1) - too close, fir it pls

03:00:073 (1) - maybe ctrl+j? for better flow

03:04:792 (1,2) - bad overlap

03:15:253 (2) - 03:16:176 (1) - problems with stack?

03:49:060 (1) - make sure that start of stream stood exactly in the middle of stream piece 03:48:599 (1,2,3,4,1) - (move 03:49:060 (1) - and next stream to 158 217)

03:55:176 (1) - 03:55:983 (1) - fix overlap

04:00:137 (1) - stack start of repeat with end of kickslider 03:59:099 (1) -

04:11:934 (1) - stack start of kickslider with note 04:11:176 (12) -

04:14:631 (1,2) - are you sure that (2) will be good read? with same spacing between 1/8 04:14:631 (1,2) -and 1/4 04:14:715 (2,3) - . And also 1/8 repeat 04:13:620 (1) - looks lonely. Make on 04:14:631 (1,2) - another 1/8 repeat and also unstack this repeat and 04:14:799 (2,3,1) -

04:30:474 (1) - 04:30:979 (1) - 04:31:485 (1) - maybe make here kicksliders?

04:51:878 (2) - 04:52:383 (1) - bad overlap

05:11:428 (6,2) - same as above, make overlap batter (move kickslider up for example)

05:34:855 (2) - 05:35:698 (1) - overlap

05:45:052 (4,5,6) - maybe curve this stream piece to cotrast with curve stream 05:45:304 (1,2,3,4,5,6) - ?

05:53:310 (6,1) - hmm its werid that you separate streams with different combo (05:52:383 (1,2,3,4,5,6,1,2,3,4,5,6) - for example), but here you dont separate different combo. Pls unstack (6) and (1)

end of mod~

streams is fucking masterpiece
good luck

BPM is correct. Had the same happen in Fast Paced Society - your green line with the new timing won't fit in because the timing is .(6), it will start being delayed eventually. That's simply because .(6) doesn't exist in music afaik, it just simply makes no sense.

Every overlap you linked is fine to me, the timespaces between them are just too long to be worth "fixing", it would ruin absolute spacing in lots of places, not to mention it can't even be seen in the editor most of the time, not to mention the fact it's AR10.

1/8 sliders play just like 1/4 sliders - meaning that 1/4 sliders play as 1/2s, while 1/8s play as 1/4s. You don't have to read anything, you just keep streaming at the same finger/cursor speed without worrying.

The NC's/Finishers you suggested are fine I guess, but I already follow a consistent pattern which doesn't require any extra NCs there so I won't apply them.

04:30:474 (1) - didn't add kicksliders here cause I think that emphasizes the rhythmic guitar better this way, someone already suggested that as well.

02:18:865 (1,2) - got snare drums there unlike on 02:18:612 (3) - , which is why it's mapped differently.

I did change this point with the stream blanket though 03:49:060 (1) -

Lunicia

328 posts

Joined May 2014

Lunicia 2016-09-28T05:17:21+00:00

holy shit
rank when?

Ideal

Nomination Assessment Team

636 posts

Joined January 2014

Ideal 2016-09-28T16:33:55+00:00

me too thanks

Varqaaa

17 posts

Joined October 2013

Varqaaa 2016-09-29T00:12:19+00:00

I'm a fan, I really am, but that spike in difficulty in the solo does not correspond to the spike in difficulty in the song. Everything corresponds (ie spacing in a stream matches oscillating guitar line) but it corresponds in the manner a Silynn or Snow Rabbit map corresponds. It's way over the top. This is a technical death metal song; all of it is hard, not just the solo.

I originally wrote a more in-depth mod but there isn't really a point. It boils down to just nerf the spacing on the first solo across the board. It does not accurately reflect the change in the song. Mathematically speaking, you've used a different constant for this portion of the song's difficulty than for the rest of it. Sure, a solo can be harder, but this solo is not this much harder.

Aside from that I love the map; shifting beat divisor streams (and I love your sense of stream flow), tasteful use of sliders, interesting jump patterns... all lovely. The solo is just too stark a contrast. Of course, the alternative to achieving parity by nerfing the solo would be bringing the rest of the map up to its level...

t. opinionated 40k nobody

ps/edit: yeah sure pp mappers pull this shit all the time, but you're better than that and I think you're lazying out with this. fairly or not, you get held to a higher standard (because you can meet it)

-Kanzaki

889 posts

Joined June 2012

-Kanzaki 2016-09-29T06:22:25+00:00

1000+ pp even bad accuracy lmao

MCB

26 posts

Joined July 2013

MCB 2016-09-30T00:45:39+00:00

Varqaaa wrote:
I'm a fan, I really am, but that spike in difficulty in the solo does not correspond to the spike in difficulty in the song. Everything corresponds (ie spacing in a stream matches oscillating guitar line) but it corresponds in the manner a Silynn or Snow Rabbit map corresponds. It's way over the top. This is a technical death metal song; all of it is hard, not just the solo.

I originally wrote a more in-depth mod but there isn't really a point. It boils down to just nerf the spacing on the first solo across the board. It does not accurately reflect the change in the song. Mathematically speaking, you've used a different constant for this portion of the song's difficulty than for the rest of it. Sure, a solo can be harder, but this solo is not this much harder.

Aside from that I love the map; shifting beat divisor streams (and I love your sense of stream flow), tasteful use of sliders, interesting jump patterns... all lovely. The solo is just too stark a contrast. Of course, the alternative to achieving parity by nerfing the solo would be bringing the rest of the map up to its level...

t. opinionated 40k nobody

ps/edit: yeah sure pp mappers pull this shit all the time, but you're better than that and I think you're lazying out with this. fairly or not, you get held to a higher standard (because you can meet it)

Let's be honest here, determining the difficulty of a specific part of the song is influenced by opinion, so there's no reason why Mazzerin's way of mapping the solo would be wrong. It's just his interpretation of the intensity spike (which is actually a really huge spike if you ask me; BPM rises from like 168 to 260, guitar has a huge speed spike, etc.)

TommyB

22 posts

Joined October 2013

TommyB 2016-09-30T14:57:11+00:00

MCB wrote:
Let's be honest here, determining the difficulty of a specific part of the song is influenced by opinion, so there's no reason why Mazzerin's way of mapping the solo would be wrong. It's just his interpretation of the intensity spike (which is actually a really huge spike if you ask me; BPM rises from like 168 to 260, guitar has a huge speed spike, etc.)

It's not just the guitar either, listen to the drums as well. The intensity of the song skyrockets which is personally why I think the spike fits pretty well.

Cryptic

551 posts

Joined December 2013

Cryptic 2016-10-01T18:19:55+00:00

~~placeholder~~ p/5517411

Last edited by Cryptic 2016-10-02T19:30:34+00:00, edited 1 time in total.

Varqaaa

17 posts

Joined October 2013

Varqaaa 2016-10-01T20:26:30+00:00

MCB wrote:
Let's be honest here, determining the difficulty of a specific part of the song is influenced by opinion,

this is correct

MCB wrote:
so there's no reason why Mazzerin's way of mapping the solo would be wrong.

this is not

It takes two to map. Mapping is not done in a vacuum; the mapping is an interpretation of the music that already exists. It must be cohesive with the rest of the music and the rest of the map. Scorpiour has a fantastic post on this somewhere.

You can quantify why his mapping of the solo is overblown in comparison to the rest of the map. If all of the map were mapped at that level, sure it'd be fine. His interpretation of the solo works, it just doesn't work in the context of the map he has made because it departs too starkly from his interpretation of the rest of the map. It's like the rest of the song was designed as a "medium" and this is a "lunatic" for no apparent reason (to use an exaggerated example in order to hopefully make my point clearer).

[TommyB] wrote:
It's not just the guitar either, listen to the drums as well. The intensity of the song skyrockets which is personally why I think the spike fits pretty well.

He isn't mapping predominantly to the drums, he's mapping to the guitar line. If he wanted to reflect the higher bpm for the drumline he'd do more fat 260 bpm streaming. Instead he (correctly in my opinion) chooses to focus on the dominant guitar line, reflecting the movement with increased spacing. My complaint is that difficulty in the guitar part for this piece is not the huge jump in difficulty he makes it out to be

Mazzerin

493 posts

Joined July 2013

Topic Starter

Mazzerin 2016-10-01T22:31:51+00:00

Varqaaa wrote:
You can quantify why his mapping of the solo is overblown in comparison to the rest of the map. If all of the map were mapped at that level, sure it'd be fine. His interpretation of the solo works, it just doesn't work in the context of the map he has made because it departs too starkly from his interpretation of the rest of the map. It's like the rest of the song was designed as a "medium" and this is a "lunatic" for no apparent reason (to use an exaggerated example in order to hopefully make my point clearer).

You can compare the 260 bpm to the rest of the map all you want, I will keep comparing it to the rest of the song.

1) Let's start with the actual intensity musically, since you said it's 'mathematically wrong' as well.
1. The song goes from 178 bpm to 260 bpm for 45 seconds in a 6 minute song. How do you expect me to map the rest in 9*? If the map was 8*, how do you expect me to map at 8* in the 178 bpm parts while the 260 bpm part was 8*? How about 5*? See my point?
2. There's no point in the song where drums are that aggressive at the same time with having extremely high pitch guitar, literally it's not even close to how insane that part is musically compared to the rest of the song.

2) Mapping/playability points:
1. Whole 260 bpm part is centered around the hard jump part. You can see there are less spaced parts pretty often such as 03:40:753 (1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2) - 03:36:599 (1,2,3) - 03:37:753 (1,2,1) - 03:39:137 (1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2) - 03:44:445 (1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2) - 03:48:830 (1,2,1) - 03:52:522 (1,2) - 03:59:907 (1,2,1) -
all are spaced depending on how intense they are, but some are quite close to the max DS or even exceed it, however it doesn't last for long because it's simply not the same spike.
2. Why do you think the 178 parts are that easy? They've got literally everything milked out of them, the 2nd solo and the ending have such brutal patterns/spacing variations it's not even funny, they're hard technically, while the 260 bpm part is hard mechanically. If it were the opposite, it would be a 7* map and everyone would be happy and never complain because technical patterns are always SIGNIFICANTLY underrated compared to mechanical ones, especially when paired with a low bpm technical pattern vs high bpm mechanical pattern. Side note: OF COURSE the 9 star part is still harder than all those technical patterns, BUT it is THE spike, not just a musical spike that the song has more than a 100 times. That's the point: highlight the spike.
3. The jumps build up very well. What the hell do you suggest me to do? I've already nerfed the build up so many times there's just nothing to nerf anymore because the effect of a buildup will be gone. Compare 03:28:407 (1,2) - vs the highest pitch jumps 03:28:753 (1,2) - https://osu.ppy.sh/ss/6224959 - then compare those smaller ones to the ones before, and so on until you get to 03:27:137 (1,2) - . I'm not nerfing the most intense part because what's wrong with using high spacing for the most intense part? Then I'd literally have to scale down every other hard part in the map which is just stupid. I'm not nerfing the lowest spacing either because it's already tiny as fuck, as you can see. My point is that they are balanced around the guitar pitch which starts quite low and builds up so high that you simply can't find a moment like that in the song, anywhere, period.

Really, first try to look at the 178 bpm part and 260 bpm part separately, because the bpm changes are extremely significant. Then try to understand that there are small/meaningless jumps like 03:37:983 (1,2,3,4,5,6) - and actual HARD high spacing jump parts like the ones I linked on point 2) 1.
That should be quite clear. Now move on, look at hard parts in the 178 bpm part that have high spacing like 03:12:208 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1) - 02:15:410 (2,1) - 05:07:889 (1,2,1,2,1,2) - . Why aren't you complaining about these? How would you feel if the 260 bpm spike had LOWER spacing than these? That's right, it would be stupid as fuck.
Alright, now, your medium vs lunatic analogy was actually quite good. It's EXACTLY what happens in this map in terms of MECHANICAL skill, because the song speeds up to 260 bpm. Try mapping an easy difficulty for a 178 bpm song then an easy the same way, with the same patterns on a 260 bpm song. What happens? The 260 bpm one is actually 2.5* while the 178 one is 1.5*.
Both the 178 bpm part and the 260 bpm part are pushed to their limits.

Meteo L-Drago

795 posts

Joined October 2014

Meteo L-Drago 2016-10-01T22:40:52+00:00

I didn't like 1* spike, but that explanation actually really makes sense, nice

Akiyama Mizuki

2,711 posts

Joined March 2009

Akiyama Mizuki 2016-10-02T07:29:49+00:00

sr is just a computer generated number???

HML

343 posts

Joined June 2013

HML 2016-10-02T08:26:44+00:00

bbj0920 wrote:
sr is just a computer generated number???

Some maps get the short end of the stick with SR. Streams don't bump SR like jumps unless they're spaced. A lot of maps, like Into The Void, should have a WAY higher SR than given. The bot doesn't understand stamina, and that the jump between 120bpm to 130bpm is a LOT easier than the jump from 250bpm to 260bpm, making higher BPM stuff not as high as they should be.

Ayyri

Ayyri 2016-10-02T18:28:43+00:00

Pray for Cryptic.

Cryptic

551 posts

Joined December 2013

Cryptic 2016-10-02T19:29:11+00:00

I guess we'll see how this goes.

TL:DR; Changed HP, did a few minor spacing changes on the front end

Log

14:06 Cryptic: 00:19:625 (1,2,3,4) - 
14:06 Cryptic: unoverlap it since it doesn't really look intended
14:07 Mazzerin: oh yeah
14:07 Mazzerin: i'll move by a few pixels
14:07 Cryptic: yeah
14:08 Cryptic: 00:49:457 - I'm assuming since the accent here has a lot of drift you don't want to map it?
14:08 Mazzerin: you mean the background stuff?
14:08 Cryptic: well
14:08 Cryptic: its an accent to the string
14:09 Cryptic: its like
14:09 Cryptic: do do do do dododo
14:09 Mazzerin: ohh like extensions
14:09 Cryptic: mm
14:09 Mazzerin: i think singles are just fine
14:09 Cryptic: Yeah
14:09 Cryptic: It actually only happens there I think
14:09 Cryptic: which is why I brought it up
14:12 Cryptic: 00:21:648 (1,2,3,4) - maybe move the 2,3,4 down a bit since the spacing right now is a bit deceptive compared to the pervious part of the map?
14:12 Cryptic: not very far, like stack the 4 on00:21:058 (5) - or something
14:13 Mazzerin: ok that works
14:14 Cryptic: 00:57:377 (1,2,3,1,2) - I'm a bit worried about this pattern overall, specifically 00:57:547 (2,3) - to 00:57:884 (1,2) - seems a bit too circular
14:14 Cryptic: but also I think that 00:58:052 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9) - this may be overspaced, according to pitch. As in, the 7,8,9 should be lower spaced
14:15 Cryptic: So technically you could probably kill two bords with one stone by just rearranging the pattern slightly
14:15 Mazzerin: which pattern?
14:15 Mazzerin: the first one or the second one?
14:16 Cryptic: Both
14:16 Cryptic: Like, the first needs to probably have a tighter angle into 00:57:884 (1,2,1,2,3) - 
14:16 Mazzerin: the circularity is fine, it's a nice triangle in my eyes
14:16 Cryptic: and the second needs less spacing on 00:58:725 (7,8,9) -  IMO
14:16 Cryptic: because the pitch starts decreasing there
14:16 Cryptic: as that sounds like a lead-in to 00:59:064 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9) - 
14:16 Mazzerin: i can rearrenge it to be even sharper
14:16 Mazzerin: with just changing that one note though
14:16 Cryptic: I was saying even sharper yeah, I think it'd play a tiny bit better if you did that
14:17 Mazzerin: you mean sharper as in from the other side
14:17 Cryptic: 00:57:714 (3,1,2) - 
14:17 Mazzerin: or just like more from above
14:17 Mazzerin: instead of completely leading into that
14:17 Cryptic: yeah, I think either would work honestly. Personally, I like the placement of the kick
14:18 Cryptic: actually
14:18 Cryptic: tilt the 2
14:18 Cryptic: upwards
14:18 Cryptic: 00:57:967 (2) - 
14:18 Cryptic: this 2
14:18 Cryptic: that should solve it
14:19 Cryptic: because the main thing I'm worried about is when you go from 00:57:714 (3) - to 00:57:884 (1,2) - its really kind of linear so it could just feel clunky
14:19 Mazzerin: wait you meant the lead in to the 00:58:052 (1) - wasn't sharp?
14:19 Cryptic: but moving the 2 up a bit could oslve that
14:19 Mazzerin: oh
14:19 Cryptic: yeah, basically
14:19 Mazzerin: i wanted to have 2 in the followpoint
14:19 Mazzerin: https://osu.ppy.sh/ss/6232011
14:19 Mazzerin: i did that
14:19 Cryptic: That'll work
14:19 Cryptic: nice skin by the way
14:20 Cryptic: 00:58:725 (7) - 
14:20 Mazzerin: now what about
14:20 Cryptic: by the way, I just noticed that this wasn't snapped
14:20 Mazzerin: that 7
14:20 Mazzerin: it's broken
14:20 Cryptic: 00:58:388 (4) - neither is this
14:20 Cryptic: o?
14:20 Mazzerin: everythings "not snapped"
14:20 Mazzerin: or a lot of things
14:20 Mazzerin: it's an editor bug
14:20 Cryptic: gotchya
14:21 Mazzerin: gotta use navosu helper app
14:21 Mazzerin: that one shows what is really unsnapped
14:21 Cryptic: mhmm
14:21 Mazzerin: ok so 789
14:21 Mazzerin: what if it's below the 123?
14:22 Cryptic: That'd probably be fine, what do you have in mind?
14:22 Mazzerin: wait i'll actually rearrange the next ones too
14:22 Cryptic: okay
14:25 Mazzerin: https://osu.ppy.sh/ss/6232074 i meant this
14:25 Mazzerin: well that's not down anymore it's even closer but it makes more sense
14:25 Cryptic: yeah
14:25 Cryptic: I like that
14:25 Cryptic: it works
14:26 Cryptic: let me know when you're done w/ that pattern
14:26 Mazzerin: i am done!
14:27 Mazzerin: https://osu.ppy.sh/ss/6232100 the rest is like that
14:27 Mazzerin: moved that next 123 cause it would've been too close
14:27 Cryptic: yeah
14:27 Cryptic: that should be bueno
14:27 Mazzerin: and that makes sense cause it's a new measure+snare
14:28 Cryptic: 01:01:929 (1,2,3) - 
14:28 Cryptic: fix your DS please
14:28 Cryptic: also honestly make that curve a tiny bit less sharp
14:28 Cryptic: it'll look better
14:29 Mazzerin: yeah
14:31 Cryptic: 01:14:062 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3) - 
14:31 Cryptic: this is really weird flow-wise
14:32 Cryptic: I think some of the things you could do is  nerf the DS on 01:14:231 (2,3,4) - as an ode to the different pitch in the BG (even though you're following the drums here)
14:32 Cryptic: 01:14:399 (4,1,2,3,1) - 
14:32 Cryptic: but when you look at that specifically it just looks really clunky, even for 178
14:33 Mazzerin: well it's definitely not as hard as some of the patterns around
14:33 Mazzerin: it's just slightly spaced
14:33 Cryptic: sure, theres definitely harder patterns
14:34 Cryptic: I was just saying that this one is kind of hard because of the flow moreso than the spacing
14:34 Mazzerin: so if i nerf 234 that's enough?
14:35 Cryptic: mm, lemme give you a suggestion, hold on
14:35 Cryptic: cuz the 234 really fucks the entire pattern
14:35 Mazzerin: you know sharp flow FROM a stream to a note is good
14:36 Cryptic: Yeah
14:36 Mazzerin: linear flow during a stream where you start from a note to a stream is also fine
14:36 Cryptic: its really how you're basically going down, then left, then backwards, then direclty up
14:37 Cryptic: it plays kind of like a weird drawn out square
14:37 Mazzerin: if it's sharp from circle to stream (stream goes in reverse) it still feels fine but it's usually further away so it's harder (because of visuals, can't place it as close as you could)
14:37 Cryptic: which isn't that great overall
14:37 Mazzerin: oh another thing then
14:37 Mazzerin: when you're inside a stream pattern
14:37 Mazzerin: reset the flow
14:37 Mazzerin: hmm hard to explain
14:37 Cryptic: no i get that
14:37 Mazzerin: think of it as a relaxed/non straining position for your aiming hand
14:38 Mazzerin: it's mostly about reading and moving carefully inside streams
14:38 Mazzerin: not snapping around
14:38 Cryptic: Yeah
14:38 Cryptic: 01:14:399 (4,1,2) - 
14:38 Cryptic: but that is a snap
14:38 Mazzerin: so it resets and starts again here 01:14:399 (4) -
14:38 Cryptic: 01:14:062 (1,2,3,4) - 
14:38 Mazzerin: yeah it's triangular
14:38 Cryptic: this is fine
14:38 Cryptic: 01:14:399 (4,1,2) - is borderline a right angle
14:38 Cryptic: and then the 01:14:735 (2,3,1) - flows out of the right angle
14:38 Mazzerin: well that's one snap 01:14:062 (1,2) -
14:38 Mazzerin: a right angle?
14:39 Cryptic: I honestly think like having the 2,3,4 with a slightly lower DS and then tilted upwards would probably be a fairly okay solution
14:39 Cryptic: though in all honesty
14:39 Cryptic: its up to you
14:39 Cryptic: This is a really nazi thing of me to point out
14:39 Mazzerin: what if 01:14:399 (4) - was closer?
14:39 Cryptic: so only change it if you agree
14:39 Mazzerin: hmmm i don't even know
14:39 Mazzerin: LOL
14:39 Cryptic: 4 being closer would help
14:40 Mazzerin: i'd rather keep it, this is the least someone will care about
14:40 Mazzerin: it's like taking notes from the slow part
14:40 Cryptic: I kind of did osmething like this: https://puu.sh/rvpor/6a9326032f.png
14:40 Mazzerin: and talking about their angles
14:40 Cryptic: but like
14:40 Cryptic: that ends up taking away a lot of the impact
14:41 Cryptic: 01:35:045 (16,1) - 
14:41 Cryptic: the hell
14:42 Mazzerin: you think it's too big?
14:42 Cryptic: Mmm, the transition itself is a bit large, but the biggest issue is the fact that the stream is pointed away from it + the spacing
14:42 Cryptic: if the stream lead into it a bit more
14:42 Mazzerin: things like those are much easier than 01:35:382 (2,1,2,1,2,1,2) -  by the way
14:42 Cryptic: (like not as much of a curve away) I could see the distance being better
14:42 Cryptic: yeah I know
14:42 Mazzerin: but the drop down effect is so cool
14:43 Cryptic: it is
14:43 Mazzerin: with the kick
14:43 Cryptic: Yeah, its fine
14:43 Cryptic: you're snapping to a repeat slider
14:43 Mazzerin: yeah
14:43 Mazzerin: you are safe for a bunch of time
14:43 Mazzerin: even if you're off time
14:43 Cryptic: yeah
14:43 Cryptic: a lot of lenience
14:44 Cryptic: 02:26:365 (1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1) - 
14:45 Cryptic: this is a cool pattern
14:45 Mazzerin: IT IS GOOD
14:45 Mazzerin: i love it
14:45 Mazzerin: i've never seen anything like it
14:46 Cryptic: 03:14:907 (1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2) - 
14:46 Cryptic: I love this solo
14:46 Cryptic: so fucking much
14:47 Mazzerin: the reason why i mapped it
14:47 Cryptic: 03:28:060 (1) - UN-NC it
14:48 Mazzerin: but i'm following a pattern
14:48 Mazzerin: then i would have to un-nc 03:27:137 (1) -
14:48 Mazzerin: 'and 03:27:599 (1) -
14:48 Cryptic: but they're
14:48 Cryptic: 1-2-3's rather than 1-2's musically :c
14:49 Mazzerin: but i grouped it as 1-2 1-2 everywhere
14:49 Mazzerin: including there
14:49 Cryptic: mmm, fine.
14:49 Mazzerin: it's just that that last 2 is missing
14:49 Mazzerin: 03:28:637 (1) -
14:49 Mazzerin: same happens here!
14:49 Cryptic: I know
14:49 Cryptic: I hadn't gotten there yet
14:51 Cryptic: 03:44:445 (1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2) - 
14:51 Cryptic: which instrument are you following for the expansion?
14:51 Mazzerin: well the guitar starts screaming
14:51 Mazzerin: the lead one
14:51 Mazzerin: the rhythmic guitar goes up in pitch
14:51 Mazzerin: and the drums are 1/4
14:51 Mazzerin: so it's all mashed up into one increasing pattern
14:51 Cryptic: Yeah
14:51 Cryptic: alright
14:53 Cryptic: eh, that section is tough to sort out musically, I think you did fine
14:53 Cryptic: has anyone played the current iteration of the map by the way?
14:54 Mazzerin: yes talala today
14:54 Mazzerin: and gayz
14:54 Cryptic: Alright
14:54 Cryptic: What did they say?
14:54 Mazzerin: gayz could pass everything but the streams before the jumps
14:55 Mazzerin: and talala couldn't pass the streams but could pass the jumps until sliderjumps
14:55 Mazzerin: so i changed the streams with talala
14:55 Mazzerin: and he passed both the streams and the jumps except the slider jumps
14:55 Mazzerin: the problem was overlaps and that weird triple not sure if you saw it
14:55 Mazzerin: 03:24:368 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3) -
14:55 Mazzerin: this was overlapping
14:55 Mazzerin: so i removed that
14:56 Mazzerin: and there was this triangular triple 03:25:176 (2,3,1) -
14:56 Mazzerin: that gayz complained about
14:56 Mazzerin: but i made it straight
14:56 Mazzerin: talala said he's gonna pass it with luck now hah
14:57 Cryptic: 05:03:170 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4) - why change the folow so much here?
14:57 Cryptic: also, sorry, I was reading that all but I was also looking ahead
14:57 Cryptic: I don't want to make you wait too long
14:57 Mazzerin: sorry for what
14:58 Mazzerin: not talking to me while i was typing a wall?
14:58 Mazzerin: that's fine
14:58 Cryptic: yea
14:58 Mazzerin: it's hard to explain the direction there
14:58 Mazzerin: i just kinda felt like guitar does that
14:58 Mazzerin: i have no idea how to say this
14:58 Mazzerin: but i like how it flows into after that motion 05:03:844 (1,2,3,4,1) -
14:59 Cryptic: See, my only concern with some of these awkward stream jumps and sharp flow changes is the HP 6
14:59 Cryptic: I get that you don't want like 50% acc passes
15:00 Cryptic: but you may need a slightly lower HP
15:00 Cryptic: with some of these stream jumps
15:00 Cryptic: not that one that i mentioned
15:00 Cryptic: just overall
15:00 Mazzerin: hp is tricky to decide
15:00 Mazzerin: it simply makes it more lenient everywhere
15:01 Cryptic: yeah
15:01 Mazzerin: but how lenient do i want it and how lenient does everyone else want it?
15:01 Mazzerin: everyone has a different opinion
15:01 Mazzerin: the top players literally said
15:01 Mazzerin: if you make it lower, it's gonna be easier to pass
15:01 Mazzerin: and well that's true it's simple as that
15:01 Cryptic: Yeah
15:01 Cryptic: thats for sure
15:01 Cryptic: but if people liek talala and gayz who are quite good at your maps are having trouble passing
15:01 Cryptic: wouldn't something like 5.5 or 5 be a bit more reasonable?
15:02 Cryptic: We both know no one will ever pass this with HR, maybe HD, most passes will be HT
15:02 Cryptic: tbh, I'm fine with it being HP 6
15:02 Mazzerin: i'll quickly ask around
15:02 Cryptic: I just see it as being a potential conversation point in a DQ mod
15:03 Mazzerin: mithew says 6
15:03 Mazzerin: broodich says 5.5
15:03 Mazzerin: LOL
15:03 Mazzerin: wait
15:04 Cryptic: ?
15:04 Mazzerin: plz enjoy game will say something as well
15:04 Mazzerin: about the hp
15:04 Cryptic: alright
15:04 Mazzerin: i mean you can keep modding
15:04 Cryptic: I'm gonna start checking HSing
15:05 Mazzerin: aaand he says 5
15:05 Mazzerin: ROFL
15:05 Mazzerin: so we have 5 5.5 and 6
15:05 Cryptic: nah really the only last major complaint I had was the really weird stream flow
15:05 Cryptic: uhm
15:05 Cryptic: split the difference, avg is 55
15:05 Cryptic: *5.5
15:05 Cryptic: ?
15:05 Mazzerin: yeah
15:06 Cryptic: oh
15:06 Cryptic: I did forget
15:06 Cryptic: 05:44:799 (1,2,3,4,5,6,1) - 
15:06 Cryptic: I'm not a huge fan of that pattern at all
15:06 Cryptic: I get the spacing musically, but the design seems to be a bit harder than the song really warrants
15:06 Mazzerin: well the jump is barely bigger
15:06 Cryptic: especially the 6>1 at the end there
15:06 Mazzerin: it's almost the same as usual
15:07 Mazzerin: 0.25 difference
15:07 Cryptic: alright
15:07 Cryptic: time for hte "fun" part
15:07 Mazzerin: some guy already checked hitsounds pretty well
15:07 Mazzerin: i also did a few times
15:08 Mazzerin: there might be some missing after changes though
15:09 Cryptic: hmm
15:12 Mazzerin: talala said 5.5-5.7
15:12 Mazzerin: and '5 is too easy'
15:12 Mazzerin: so 5.5 is the best i guess
15:12 Cryptic: yeah
15:12 Cryptic: I'm about halfway through with HSing
15:12 Cryptic: after I finish you can update and then I can recheck the spots that were tinkered and recheck their HSs and the quali
15:13 Cryptic: 03:55:522 (1) - 
15:13 Cryptic: defualt hit-whistle??
15:13 Mazzerin: what
15:13 Cryptic: its defualt hit-whistle
15:13 Cryptic: like
15:13 Cryptic: that is
15:13 Cryptic: isn't it mean tto be
15:13 Mazzerin: that's a sound in the song isn't it
15:14 Cryptic: turn music voluem to 0%
15:14 Mazzerin: OH
15:14 Mazzerin: the slider
15:14 Cryptic: yeah
15:14 Mazzerin: nooo
15:14 Mazzerin: the sliderbody has whistle applied to it
15:14 Mazzerin: accidently
15:14 Cryptic: yeah
15:14 Cryptic: thats what I was saying
15:14 Mazzerin: woops
15:18 Cryptic: alright
15:18 Cryptic: the rest is good
15:19 Mazzerin: so i can update
15:19 Cryptic: aye
15:19 Cryptic: you did 5.5 right?
15:19 Mazzerin: yeah
15:19 Cryptic: cool cool
15:19 Cryptic: lemme know when update
15:20 Mazzerin: now
15:20 Mazzerin: it is done
15:20 Cryptic: yep
15:20 Cryptic: checking
15:24 Mazzerin: cryptic did yo udie
15:24 Cryptic: no no
15:24 Cryptic: just making sure I didn't miss anything
15:24 Cryptic: almost done
15:24 Cryptic: like 30 seconds left
15:24 Cryptic: I'm gonna get shit on tho man
15:24 Cryptic: considering I nazi'd Empress yesterday and am flaming this today
15:25 Cryptic: inb4 loctav kicks me
15:25 Mazzerin: you're doing it for a good cause
15:25 Cryptic: rip
15:25 Cryptic: cool cool everything is in order
15:25 Cryptic: let me get the post ready and then I'll flame

Xexxar

915 posts

Joined June 2013

Xexxar 2016-10-02T19:32:23+00:00

woops error on my part

Last edited by Xexxar 2016-10-02T19:37:10+00:00, edited 1 time in total.

Akali

639 posts

Joined November 2012

Akali 2016-10-02T19:34:03+00:00

fun stuff

Miquella

462 posts

Joined September 2015

Miquella 2016-10-02T19:37:03+00:00

I like yourr map mazzerin c;

Surono

7,197 posts

Joined November 2013

Surono 2016-10-02T19:37:13+00:00

how/

C00L

1,078 posts

Joined September 2014

C00L 2016-10-02T19:38:28+00:00

i love dubstep maps

Cerulean Veyron

2,090 posts

Joined August 2012

Cerulean Veyron 2016-10-02T19:40:13+00:00

You've got to be kidding lud xDDDDDDDDD oh vw /me checks self privilege

gratz btw lmao

Froslass

Beatmap Nominator

9,344 posts

Joined July 2008

Froslass 2016-10-02T19:43:17+00:00

jk

Finally done with that piece of worthless junk. Crap, Mazzerin, when you started making things like Those whom from the Heavens came and The Deceit/The Violation, I actually started getting my hopes up that you were finally going to break out of your terrible Vektor and Apparition stage and start cranking out truly admirable maps. Even though Swamphell raised a red flag or two, I still had high hopes.

here comes the DQ squad

gratz!

riktoi

711 posts

Joined September 2014

riktoi 2016-10-02T19:48:38+00:00

Blue Dragon wrote:
jk
Finally done with that piece of worthless junk. Crap, Mazzerin, when you started making things like Those whom from the Heavens came and The Deceit/The Violation, I actually started getting my hopes up that you were finally going to break out of your terrible Vektor and Apparition stage and start cranking out truly admirable maps. Even though Swamphell raised a red flag or two, I still had high hopes.

lol

gratz mazzerin

Ideal

Nomination Assessment Team

636 posts

Joined January 2014

Ideal 2016-10-02T19:52:28+00:00

holy you did it

gg mazzerin

Meteo L-Drago

795 posts

Joined October 2014

Meteo L-Drago 2016-10-02T19:53:01+00:00

oh my god

Foxy Grandpa

720 posts

Joined January 2015

Foxy Grandpa 2016-10-02T19:58:56+00:00

smh another pp farm anime opening

squirrelpascals

1,002 posts

Joined March 2015

squirrelpascals 2016-10-02T19:59:57+00:00

FoxyGrandpa wrote:
anime opening

What kind of anime do you watch wtf

_DT3

1,403 posts

Joined October 2015

_DT3 2016-10-02T20:02:56+00:00

What the actual

Sieg

3,981 posts

Joined February 2012

Sieg 2016-10-02T20:05:23+00:00

Mapper wrote:
oh my god

Fezu

41 posts

Joined November 2012

Fezu 2016-10-02T20:06:59+00:00

-snip-

Last edited by Fezu 2016-10-02T20:19:22+00:00, edited 9 times in total.

Stefan

Global Moderator

10,425 posts

Joined January 2011

Stefan 2016-10-02T20:13:48+00:00

Since this hasn't degenerated yet, I leave a small warning, for the unaware users:

If you decide to shitpost, count with a silence.

AleksandrsCaks

18 posts

Joined March 2015

AleksandrsCaks 2016-10-02T20:18:15+00:00

dude, is this even rankable?

ConsumerOfBean

453 posts

Joined April 2015

ConsumerOfBean 2016-10-02T20:18:52+00:00

congratulations!
sorry if it's been brought up before but i really don't see the point of the kiai flashes at 01:44:567 - , i feel like there's just too many at once and it looks kinda weird because the 4th one goes into the slow section right after
i'd just remove the 2nd and 4th tbh

not a major problem tho i like the map

Xexxar

915 posts

Joined June 2013

Xexxar 2016-10-02T20:25:24+00:00

KabbaRam wrote:
dude, is this even rankable?

dat aim spike (tho srsly, pp doesnt matter, what matters is the quality of the map)

Last edited by Xexxar 2016-10-02T20:30:13+00:00, edited 1 time in total.

Rapthorn

234 posts

Joined October 2014

Rapthorn 2016-10-02T20:30:06+00:00

lol people are actually complaining about the difference in star rating instead of discussing the difference in actual difficulty

Its been confirmed multiple times that the star system is utter garbage when it comes to technical stuff and high bpm streams. If you guys actually took some time out of your day to check the replays of people who played the map you would see that pretty much everyone struggles more on the 260 bpm streams than they do on the jumps.

Star rating is completely irrelevant here, look at the difference in actual difficulty and if you still come to the conclusion that the jumps are overdone feel free to post

Irreversible

osu! Alumni

4,317 posts

Joined December 2011

Irreversible 2016-10-02T20:40:15+00:00

Isn't this like, very heavily overmapped at points. 03:23:214 - For example here I definitely don't hear one full stream lol.

Mazzerin

493 posts

Joined July 2013

Topic Starter

Mazzerin 2016-10-02T20:48:03+00:00

Irreversible wrote:
Isn't this like, very heavily overmapped at points. 03:23:214 - For example here I definitely don't hear one full stream lol.

p/5483250
it's 1/6 doubles or just 1/4s with 3~ 1/3s in the end in the recording, making 1/6 doubles wouldn't work out

hoozimajiget

45 posts

Joined December 2009

hoozimajiget 2016-10-02T20:57:03+00:00

Irreversible wrote:
Isn't this like, very heavily overmapped at points. 03:23:214 - For example here I definitely don't hear one full stream lol.

The stream is referencing the sweep arpeggios the guitar is playing at that point ending at 03:26:445. It may not sound like a full stream because there is a mixture of 16th and triplet 16th notes making up the arpeggio while it is mapped in 16ths

Sekuria

3 posts

Joined September 2013

Sekuria 2016-10-02T21:10:51+00:00

Honestly watching this map be played and listening to it very closely. Its honestly a perfect work of art. I mean some spots in the map could be editted to be a bit more Player friendly but overall i think it fits the song perfectly.

Yauxo

1,622 posts

Joined June 2011

Yauxo 2016-10-03T00:38:05+00:00

Once we get through all of the "omfg 9* wtf", here's m opinion just by looking at it via some browser plugin (forgot the name).

The map generally seems to be perfectly reasonable, besides most of the fullscreen Kickslider Jumps and some spaced Stream transition in the early last third of the song. Im glad that you didnt went ham on the "slower/more quiet" parts.

- The Kicksliders really just seem to be there to mess one up or to "justify the difficulty" while they dont need to be that spaced. In the early third, you used the spacing on them well so that they seem to fit in with (most maybe less most) of the general spacing in these parts. The left side right side left side right sides later on on the other hand just make you throw your cursor and hope that you hit. Intensity here, intensity there, I dont put x5.0 SV on dubstep heavy maps either :c I wish they were spaced less.
- That one Stream transition Im talking about is where it get's into a really spaced C pattern and the next object tries to fit in in C's cave (the inside). The problem with that is that you really have to force yourself to slow down and try to move in an oddly shaped flipped 'z' movement (I dont think that I'll need to tell you shit about these kinds of stuffs, but really, there are many other, more enjoyable ways to do that transition).

Ive seen the explanation, yes, still wanted to post input

Mazzerin

493 posts

Joined July 2013

Topic Starter

Mazzerin 2016-10-03T01:17:05+00:00

Wivaiien wrote:
Once we get through all of the "omfg 9* wtf", here's m opinion just by looking at it via some browser plugin (forgot the name).

The map generally seems to be perfectly reasonable, besides most of the fullscreen Kickslider Jumps and some spaced Stream transition in the early last third of the song. Im glad that you didnt went ham on the "slower/more quiet" parts.

- The Kicksliders really just seem to be there to mess one up or to "justify the difficulty" while they dont need to be that spaced. In the early third, you used the spacing on them well so that they seem to fit in with (most maybe less most) of the general spacing in these parts. The left side right side left side right sides later on on the other hand just make you throw your cursor and hope that you hit. Intensity here, intensity there, I dont put x5.0 SV on dubstep heavy maps either :c I wish they were spaced less.
- That one Stream transition Im talking about is where it get's into a really spaced C pattern and the next object tries to fit in in C's cave (the inside). The problem with that is that you really have to force yourself to slow down and try to move in an oddly shaped flipped 'z' movement (I dont think that I'll need to tell you shit about these kinds of stuffs, but really, there are many other, more enjoyable ways to do that transition).

Ive seen the explanation, yes, still wanted to post input

Your first point literally says "they're hard for me, I have to throw my cursor around and hope I hit them, wish it was spaced less" and something about that part not having the need to be that spaced (which I already explained - this is a top difficulty, and it's not even the most spaced it could be (what's up quaver) while it's the most intense part. Also mentioned why it would be dumb to nerf exactly the kick sliders or anything around them, I feel like I reached a consensus with enough people I value opinions of from both playability and mapping standpoints). It's been discussed and nerfed many times to the wishes of at least 5 players and an even larger amount of experienced mappers.

Second point I'm pretty sure you're talking about the stream in the 2nd solo with NC every note. There is really no flipped Z movement, there's only a quick line turn because the stream you transition in isn't even spaced, and non spaced streams at such a bpm work in a way that let's you move your cursor quite freely - meaning there's no tension in your aiming hand or any quick snaps that would feel uncomfortable. Similar effect happens on spaced streams as well, except that it factors in reading much more, but your aiming motion stays the same, meaning that the only 'uncomfortable' part about that transition is the jump between the streams, which is what was actually meant to be emphasized in the first place.

xDololow

478 posts

Joined July 2014

xDololow 2016-10-03T01:51:29+00:00

Love Mazzerin <3<3<3<3

Yauxo

1,622 posts

Joined June 2011

Yauxo 2016-10-03T01:56:42+00:00

It is a Z though and it feels ~~really~~ easy to overshoot. It also doesnt sound like much of a change is happening here - it's more of a continuation of the previous stream, maybe a "release" fits better. Something in this direction wouldve been pretty good imo.

And yes, ofcourse they are hard for me, but Im trying to look at it from a mappers perspective. I really feel like these combos would be just as good if they had patterns/spacing like 02:25:691 (1,2,1,2) - kinds of patterns (since the increased bpm already adds more difficulty to it) - or if you really want to keep the full screens, why not like http://puu.sh/rvPx6/a60d9411d9.jpg . Music also goes kind of "back and forth", so these would probably fit even more. (also, shouldnt these start on 03:28:637 (1) - ?)

Edit: Im just naziing my opinion on things, take it the way you want

Last edited by Yauxo 2016-10-03T02:06:44+00:00, edited 1 time in total.

Lunicia

328 posts

Joined May 2014

Lunicia 2016-10-03T02:03:38+00:00

i ducking love this map

Xexxar

915 posts

Joined June 2013

Xexxar 2016-10-03T02:06:34+00:00

Xendogenesis wrote:
i ducking love this map

i like watching centipede too :^)

In all seriousness, I like the map but i feel like it's just excessive how much the solo increases the difficulty of this map.

I would like for people to seriously atleast consider the transition between 03:00:073 (1) - and 03:15:830 (1) - .

It's obvious that the later has a bit more uniqueness and intensity to it, but is this unbelievably impossible mapping really necessary? It's not enjoyable for anyone to play this map and then be hit with arguably a wall of unplayability. (sure its possible to play this but I'm just being realistic).

It honestly just feels like its trying to be AS HARD AS PHYSICALLY possible for the sake of being it. Almost no one can play it, no one can enjoy it, so why do it?

Instances of overmapping
03:23:271 (2) -
03:23:387 (4) -
03:23:503 (2) -
03:25:579 (2) -
03:25:926 (4) -
03:26:387 (3) -

ETC.

feels like forced difficulty to me

Last edited by Xexxar 2016-10-03T02:28:05+00:00, edited 5 times in total.

eh - - -

60 posts

Joined February 2014

eh - - - 2016-10-03T02:30:20+00:00

This is the first Mazzerin map that is pointless enough to be in qualify state as of now.

Overall maps from first time mappers appeal more then what has been shown here.

Couple of obvious wrong things:

-Map up to 1200 combo is outragously boring (till 2 min 20 gametime) basicly 30 % of the begin on the map.
Not even the short part at 800 combo was sufficent enough to call it mapped

-Most mapped parts are a copy pasta fest he must have googled symetry or something but didnt take a test in it yet the result is clearly visible.

-At some point in the map he decided he wants it to be Mazzerin TV size pp jumps adding sliders wich are pointless to begin with, your not going to miss at that level from it being a slider , and the sliders itself dont add anything to begin with

-The ending was a combination of Sentimental Scyscrapper jumps and a potato version of the 2010 mapped Basara , heres a link for people not knowing it https://osu.ppy.sh/s/13019

In its current state the map is not worth peoples time to even consinder them modding , as over 85 % of the map is needing to be restructured.

Xexxar

915 posts

Joined June 2013

Xexxar 2016-10-03T02:32:50+00:00

... i think thats a bit harsh but okay

dytedy

919 posts

Joined December 2014

dytedy 2016-10-03T02:37:28+00:00

03:29:445 (1,2,1,2,1,2) - ?????????????????????????

Nathan

2,161 posts

Joined August 2014

Nathan 2016-10-03T02:43:12+00:00

grats

Battle

2,875 posts

Joined February 2014

Battle 2016-10-03T03:38:57+00:00

normal-hitfinish6 really doesn't fit this song tbh lmao

Ameth Rianno

515 posts

Joined November 2014

Ameth Rianno 2016-10-03T04:12:41+00:00

y e s

osu needs more 7+ stars

Natsu

8,100 posts

Joined September 2012

Natsu 2016-10-03T05:47:49+00:00

03:28:753 (1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2) - just to up it to 9 stars I suppose, on a serious note, I don't think this huge difficulty spikes should be allowed, you can argue that you feel the music is stronger than other parts, but I don't that justify 12,0 10,0 jumps.

also can you explain me what's the point of making maps that no one can play? I mean, anyone can take songs like this and make 9 stars maps, but I think people don't because no one can enjoy them (without NF or HT), there is a point when maps become physically impossible and they shouldn't be ranked IMO.

About the big difficulty spike what's the point of have it? make your map 9 stars? make it super hard?, if they fit the music or not is subjective, since alot of people would argue they do (personally I don't think they do), but we should take in consideration the playability of the map, having them make the map less enjoyable, I believe you are a decent mapper who can represent the song without the need of those jumps.

There are alot of linear movements 03:25:060 (1,2,3,1) - that don't play good at normal bpms and I guess they are worst at this high bpm, alot of overmapped objects as Xexxar pointed.

Anyways if this get ranked with that difficulty spike, we shouldn't complain at any other as well, since this one is beyond to any other difficulty spike.

Doyak

osu! Alumni

2,623 posts

Joined November 2012

Doyak 2016-10-03T06:02:42+00:00

I wonder who the target players of this map are. Maybe some of high-ranked players like playing excessive maps they can hardly pass, but we won't call them as 'target players', just like an Insane diff cannot have newbies as target players only because some of them like to struggle to pass it.

Xexxar

915 posts

Joined June 2013

Xexxar 2016-10-03T06:35:28+00:00

to add to natsu's point. This map is the equivalent of if I took my old map https://osu.ppy.sh/s/334050 and mapped 04:54:736 (1) - as entirely streams because "the song justified it"

SnowNiNo_

Elite Mapper: Aspirant

2,108 posts

Joined April 2013

SnowNiNo_ 2016-10-03T07:10:47+00:00

10* when :<?
Gratz btw xd

m1ts

398 posts

Joined April 2013

m1ts 2016-10-03T07:28:01+00:00

this map is so fun! especially the high bpm part (fast is my specialty

). may be hard but still feels great to play! especially since it represents the music so well

Monstrata

Elite Mapper: Aspirant

4,661 posts

Joined May 2013

Monstrata 2016-10-03T07:30:39+00:00

This map actually received extensive testplaying from top players before being pushed forward. Just going through the first 3-4 pages, many of the mods were made by players in the top 100. When you map, you rarely consider a "target audience" anyways. Whenever you consider a "target audience" in mapping, it will always be for lower difficulties, such as spinner recovery time on Easy/Normal, or rhythm density, or too many streams on a Hard, etc...

Spacing is very subjective. Will moving a jump 1 pixel closer make it more acceptable to you? How about 2 pixels closer? How about 3? 4? etc... You see, everyone will see "excessive" spacing differently, and everyone will have different opinions towards what's too emphasized, and what they'd consider acceptable. If the star rating system were different, and there wasn't as big of an SR spike, I don't think we'd be as critical about the pattern. Star rating is extremely biased towards high-bpm jumps by the way. The system is set up to slice maps into chunks which I think are 500 ms. They then rate each individual 500 ms based on difficulty. The higher the bpm, the more objects you can fit into any one of these windows. The reason this is unfair is because more objects also contribute to more difficulty, as the rating system has more objects it can add to the calculation. Basically, if you fit 3 objects into a 500 ms window, and then fit 6 objects into a 500 ms window, the 6 object pattern will be more than twice as difficult as the 3 object pattern.

Comparison:

This is 1.37 stars

This is 0.62 stars

You can try this with a variety of other patterns, the result will favor a higher density per-500ms pattern.

Natsu

8,100 posts

Joined September 2012

Natsu 2016-10-03T07:48:25+00:00

There is a point where the spacing is subjective yes, but once you started to spam cross screen jumps that's going too far, specially a high bpm, we are not discussing the star rating, Monstrata, but the huge spike there, Is totally unnecessary to have these jumps.
Monstrata we are not talking about moving things 1 pixel, we are talking about moving things to the point that they fit the rest of the difficulty of this map. Yes difficulty spikes are fine, but the one at this map is just exaggerated and unnecessary.

hohol454

255 posts

Joined November 2012

hohol454 2016-10-03T08:05:05+00:00

It's really unfair to compare difficulty spike in the fast part of the map to the slow part. You don't do that for song compilations and it shouldn't be done here. The jumps, when put in the context of only the rest of the solo, are completely fine. The stream sections at 03:23:214 - 03:25:926 - and 03:50:791 - 03:52:464 - are arguably as hard as the jumps anyway. Star rating is completely useless when comparing jumps to streams or technical patterns

Lefafel

223 posts

Joined January 2013

Lefafel 2016-10-03T08:20:02+00:00

@Natsu this is literally in the god damn map description: p/5515182

What more could you possibly want mazzerin to explain?

Natsu

8,100 posts

Joined September 2012

Natsu 2016-10-03T08:22:20+00:00

LefafeI wrote:
@Natsu this is literally in the god damn map description: p/5515182

What more could you possibly want mazzerin to explain?

Explaining something doesn't make it correct, that's why there are discussions about the issues or questionable things in a map.

Monstrata

Elite Mapper: Aspirant

4,661 posts

Joined May 2013

Monstrata 2016-10-03T08:25:51+00:00

Oh. I was trying to be more philosophical haha. Like "What is a huge jump? How many pixels does it take to make it huge?" It's like if you have one piece of paper. Is that a stack of paper? No? What if I add another piece of paper? and another? when does a pile of paper become a stack of paper? Considering that logic, there's no objective way to define a jump as being too big. But I suppose, there's no objective way to say the jump needs to be that big either, so its reciprocal. That was my argument for putting those jumps on Inferno actually, I just thought I'd reference that, since a lot of discussion went into that set regarding the really big jumps. (Quaver also had a lot of discussion, but quaver had a much better spacing concept, so I'll count that as a separate debate).

Lefafel

223 posts

Joined January 2013

Lefafel 2016-10-03T08:40:54+00:00

Natsu wrote:
Explaining something doesn't make it correct, that's why there are discussions about the issues or questionable things in a map.

Oh, so you're here just to tell the mapper that he is incorrect in his interpretation of the music? Despite saying, and this is a direct quote from your OP, that "if they fit the music or not is subjective"?

I'm sorry, but what exactly is the point you're trying to make?

Natsu

8,100 posts

Joined September 2012

Natsu 2016-10-03T08:45:19+00:00

LefafeI wrote:
Natsu wrote:
Explaining something doesn't make it correct, that's why there are discussions about the issues or questionable things in a map.
Oh, so you're here just to tell the mapper that he is incorrect in his interpretation of the music? Despite saying, and this is a direct quote from your OP, that "if they fit the music or not is subjective"?

I'm sorry, but what exactly is the point you're trying to make?

so you failed to read that I'm worry about the difference of difficulty with the rest of the map and also the playability ? I'm not complaining about his interpretation, I'm complaining about the sudden spike and that the map don't have any target audience, did someone passed it without no fail?, reducing the difficulty at that part may open the map for someone to play it properly (maybe).

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