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osu! Medical Mafia [Game Over!, Mafia Win]

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Drezi
Why would you suggest that we protect whoever we think is town? If we lynch today and it's a mislynch the NK target is still only 1 of the remaining 5 people, and even if you get the target right, there's only a 4/6 chance of the protection working (weak, cpr, normal, jail doc)

If you target the scumread 1/6 that the NK is jailed, 2/6 that you kill him, those are better odds, than trying to guess the Nk target right, and hoping that you don't kill your townread.
beeboy123
Because many people would decide that not using there action is the best option thus lowering the chance of a townie dying for nothing.
Sakura

Sakura wrote:

Sakura (SNB) > Sonatora
Drezi > beeboy
Navizel > ???
CTh > Navizel
Sonatora > ???
beeboy > ???
No the circle targeting isn't to try to kill the scum, is to find scum via action resolution.
beeboy123
But it doesn't declare how people died so the mafia can do nothing and just watch us kill ourselves
Sakura
It depends really, when i finish getting all targets i'll show you why, but it's pretty much the same reason how you easily catch scum in Dethy.

And why haven't you said who you targeted yet.
beeboy123
To whom was the second part directed at?
Sakura

beeboy123 wrote:

To whom was the second part directed at?
To you (unless I missed it somewhere)
beeboy123
Ya you did, too lazy to find it so I will type it out again.

I didn't want to commit suicide along with my inability to read who the scum would target so I did not target anyone.
Sakura

Sakura wrote:

Sakura (SNB) > Sonatora
Drezi > beeboy
Navizel > ???
CTh > Navizel
Sonatora > ???
beeboy > No Target
beeboy123
@mod did nurse have sonas doctor powerz?
Sakura
Why did you think predicting who scum would target was a priority during the night phase?
Why did you think it would be akin to commiting suicide?
beeboy123
frostyling whoever got mod killed
beeboy123
and I forgot bold

@mod Did nurse have powers last night?
Sakura
Le facepalm.
beeboy123

Sakura wrote:

Why did you think predicting who scum would target was a priority during the night phase?
As a town doctor I could protect them or not die as the weak doctor.

Sakura wrote:

Why did you think it would be akin to commiting suicide?
Quack doctor fell under the category of commuting suicide as it is an accidental town death (bad word choice)

Weak doctor kills themselves.

A long with some other bad things that I didn't think about until now.
Topic Starter
Zexion

beeboy123 wrote:

and I forgot bold

@mod Did nurse have powers last night?
A doctor died (even if it was a modkill), so the nurse inherired a power.
beeboy123
So unless there are other overly paranoid doctors we should all have targets
beeboy123
by paranoid I mean careful
Sakura
So no one else?...
Topic Starter
Zexion
Votecount 2.03
Players needed to lynch: 4

Chamelo_Th - 1 - Navizel - (L-3)

Players not voting: beeboy123, Chamelo_Th, Drezi, Sakura, Sonatora

Sonatora has been prodded.
Please tell me if you see any mistakes.
Navizel
I like pringles

my vote still remains

Cth>Sontatora>Sakura>beeboy>Drezi
Sakura
Now I'm getting suspicious of Navizel, there's no reason to hold out their target...
Navizel
It's bad to not vote my scumread? what
Sakura
I've been asking who you targeted last night, that's all (Question also goes to Sonatora but he/she hasn't even been around so much he/she got prodded)
Navizel
drezi
Navizel
what good would that bring anyway
Sakura
Lots of good believe it or not, now i'm just waiting for Sonotora.

While you're around any particular reason why you went for Drezi?
Sakura
Now updated!
Sakura (SNB) > Sonatora
Drezi > beeboy
Navizel > Drezi
CTh > Navizel
Sonatora > ???
beeboy > No Target
Navizel
I don't get beeboy and Sonatora. they probably won't be killed by scums due to their playstyle
I feel CTh and CB are scum
Gumica SNB null
AutoMedic
I'm back from the dead


anyways, the current flow of the discussion led me to a bad hypothesis


Vote: Cth
Chamelo
You feel that I'm scum.
Okay, so your vote is based on your feeling, right.
Chamelo
And dat Sonatora sheep...
AutoMedic
It feels like you're the scum. Asking suspicious questions at the first minutes of day 1. Why wouldn't I suspect you?


But remember, It's just my intuition. Dont take it seriously. I need information
AutoMedic
On other news, I heard that there's another playstyle that involves mafia blending with twon and negating all thoughts


My intuition is saying something
AutoMedic
*town
Navizel

Chamelo_Th wrote:

You feel that I'm scum.
Okay, so your vote is based on your feeling, right.
I thought it was obvious but whatever. They are my thoughts last night, not today.
Chamelo
Did you mean: Day 2?

And gut feeling, yeah, gut feeling.
:|

Who did you protected last night?
Chamelo
And my previous post meant for Sonatora.
AutoMedic
Here's my list


Cth : Intuition-san is teing me that you're the scum.
Sakura :Still leeching me for info
Navizel : Town, for now
beeboy : Aggressive town, but there's no lead that this guys a mafia. Null town
Drezi

Sonatora wrote:

Sakura :Still leeching me for info
As is CTs, and I'd like you to answer too, since we're only missing your target, I see no reason not to cooperate with Sakura at this point.
AutoMedic
Oh, my target last night? It was Navizel. Anything else?
Chamelo
Now that's a hard resolving pattern. :v
Drezi
Ok so we have
Sakura (SNB) > Sonatora
Drezi > beeboy
Navizel > Drezi
CTh > Navizel
Sonatora > Navizel
beeboy > No Target

That means Gumica was CPR/Quack doctor and it was him who killed CBot since noone targeted him, and Gumica was killed by scum (not the other kill capable doc or being weak doc), since noone targeted Gumica and CBot wouldn't have died if he was weak doc.

So what people CAN'T be are:
Sakura: CPR/Quack (since noone else targeted Sonatora who could have saved him)
Drezi: none, but since there's only one killing role left it's not probable that I have it and Navi is the Jailer at the same time.
Navi: none, being a killing role is a bit more probable, since two people could have jailed him.
CTh: none, being protective or killing is a lot more probable, since Navi was targeted by two people so either 2 nonkilling or 1 killing 1 protective among them.
Sonatora: same as CTh.

So what we can figure of this for sure is that we should have Sakura protect a townread, that she feels would get NK-d.
Drezi
Sakura: CPR/Quack (since noone else targeted Sonatora who could have saved him, and noone targeted Sakura who could have jailed the kill*)
Drezi
So it's the line from the list of what she CAN'T be, to avoid confusion.
AutoMedic
I only targeted Navizel last night since he felt vulnerable. He's also an obvious town so why not.
Chamelo
Wait.
We forget that Frosting could be CPR doctor or Quack doctor.
You know, Frosting targeted CB and CB targeted Frosting.
Drezi
What?

Frosting was modkilled D1, and Nurse got his powers (or he was nurse), so we went into N1 with the 6 doctor roles.
Chamelo
Sorry, I missed.

Gumica
Drezi
No it said Town Doctor, so he wasn't Nurse, the Nurse got his powers, doesn't change the point either way.
Drezi

Chamelo_Th wrote:

Wait.
We forget that Frosting could be CPR doctor or Quack doctor.
You know, Frosting targeted CB and CB targeted Frosting.
So you mean Gumica instead of Frostings, ok but I had already concluded that Gumica HAD to be CPR/Quack, and he couldn't have died from being targeted by other docs or being a weak doctor so scum HAD to target Gumica.

Why are you presenting it as something new?

Vote: CTs
Chamelo
I posted that before read your latest analysis.
Chamelo
So, I TOTALLY missed that, bah.
Drezi
I posted that an hour ago..
Chamelo
I didn't read.
Topic Starter
Zexion
Votecount 2.04
Players needed to lynch: 4

Chamelo_Th - 3 - Navizel, Sonatora, Drezi - (L-1)

Players not voting: beeboy123, Chamelo_Th, Sakura

Please tell me if you see any mistakes.
Sakura

Drezi wrote:

Ok so we have
Sakura (SNB) > Sonatora
Drezi > beeboy
Navizel > Drezi
CTh > Navizel
Sonatora > Navizel
beeboy > No Target

That means Gumica was CPR/Quack doctor and it was him who killed CBot since noone targeted him, and Gumica was killed by scum (not the other kill capable doc or being weak doc), since noone targeted Gumica and CBot wouldn't have died if he was weak doc.

So what people CAN'T be are:
Sakura: CPR/Quack (since noone else targeted Sonatora who could have saved him)
Drezi: none, but since there's only one killing role left it's not probable that I have it and Navi is the Jailer at the same time.
Navi: none, being a killing role is a bit more probable, since two people could have jailed him.
CTh: none, being protective or killing is a lot more probable, since Navi was targeted by two people so either 2 nonkilling or 1 killing 1 protective among them.
Sonatora: same as CTh.

So what we can figure of this for sure is that we should have Sakura protect a townread, that she feels would get NK-d.
Yeah that's pretty much it, Also this means that since who killed CBot is dead then we have 1 less doctor that kills.
Sakura
So CTh I have intent to hammer you, mostly based off CBot's associations. Why did you target Navizel last night?
beeboy123
I'd hammer you but I'll let Sakura do her thing
AutoMedic
Since everyone know my alibi, am I clear on this Navizel target theory?
Sakura
Btw do take reminder of when claims happened, Because the people that claimed their target first are more likely to be town than the people that waited to claim, most likely because scum wanted to fake claim something to mess up with town's targets and to mess up their information, I don't take your "No target" claim as a fake claim because since you targeted no one then you weren't trying to mess up anything, I do admit it's harder to find out what kind of role are you tho.

Anyway now that we know one of the dead doctors is one of the killer ones I suppose I could run some numbers again and see whether we should do a circle targetting.
AutoMedic

Sonatora wrote:

I only targeted Navizel last night since he felt vulnerable. He's also an obvious town so why not.

And for those who dont know, thats my alibi
beeboy123
@Sakura I was second to claim you just missed it
beeboy123
Second was a made up number
beeboy123
shared bottom of page 14
Sakura
Weak Doctor dies if it targets a Mafia Goon (and isn't protected themself)
CPR Doctor saves their target from a nightkill, but if the player isn't actually targeted for a nightkill, the CPR Doctor kills them instead.
Paranoid Doctor is the functional equivalent of a Jailkeeper
Quack Doctor kills their target instead of protecting them, the functional equivalent of a Vigilante
Naive Doctor does nothing at all.

Mafia Goon kills peoplez

Ok these 4 are the possible cause of Deaths.

We know that I can't kill people.
We know that either CPR or Quack are dead.

This ammounts to 3 possible deaths Overnight, at 6p that'd be insta lose if we mislynch

Sakura (SNB) > Sonatora (Weak, Quack, CPR, Paranoid, Naive )
Drezi > beeboy
Navizel > Drezi
CTh > Navizel
Sonatora > Navizel
beeboy > No Target

No one targeted Gumica either so Gumica died of a mafia kill.
^
This is interesting so i guess it's time to check on Gumica's reads.

Also i'm thinking on no lynching and doing the circle targeting anyone else agrees?
AutoMedic
agree
Sakura
Drezi
beeboy123
Chamelo_Th
Navizel
Sakura
Sonatora

This is the list. target the person below you, if you're at the bottom target the person above you, this means:

Drezi > beeboy
beeboy > CTh
CTh > Navizel
Navizel > Sakura
Sakura > Sonatora
Sonatora > Drezi

This way scum have no way to escape being implicated by targets and we can more clearly analyze the roles. I trust that if i die you guys will be able to figure it out.

That is if we no lynch to do this... Otherwise i'll hammer CTh.
Sakura
Oh btw, on other news if we mislynch today i'll be targetting Drezi tonight I know I can't kill Because no one targeted me, so i wasnt jailed, and no one else targeted Sonatora so i'm not CPR, Drezi's currently my highest townread and i rather protect him if we decide not to go along with the plan.
beeboy123

Sakura wrote:

Also i'm thinking on no lynching and doing the circle targeting anyone else agrees?
I guess so, you can't be helping out CTH as a fellow scum as there is 1 scum left so I feel comfortable doing this.

Worst case scenario is that 3 people die and it a 2v1 against scum (as the doctor that dies by not being protected will be protected) which isn't that bad as long as everyone targets properly. And even if 3 people die the scum will be obvious.
beeboy123
obviously I won't vote no lynch as I want to hear everyones thoughts before we end the day
beeboy123
anyone?
Drezi
Well let's see.

1) If CTh is NOT scum and we lynch him:
If CTh wasn't weak doc and the weak doctor targets scum and doesn't get protected + scum doesn't get jailed and doesn't target someone who is protected + CTh wasn't CPR/Quack and CPR/Quack targets someone who is not the scum and isn't protected by one of the three possible protections, than we lose.

This scenario is very very unlikely, what's likely is that 0, 1 or 2 people die, since NK or CPR/Quack kill can be jailed plus NK and CPR/Quack kill and weak doctor death can be prevented by protections.

But we can always choose not to use our abilities, except for Sakura, and maybe me or Navi, that would be a max 1 death night probably.

2) If we do the circle voting:
Drezi > beeboy > CTh > Navizel > Sakura > Sonatora > Drezi

Someone dies for sure, [Cth, Navi, Drezi] one of us probably, since Beeboy, CTh or Sonatora are the likely killing roles, scum might get a kill too, Sonatora probably get's protected. Weak doctor can die too if targeting scum and not having protection, that's not that likely tough.

Whoever ends up with their targets dead becomes suspicious, since scum's target is guaranteed not to be protected. But it could be weak doc death or being CPR/Quack, or scum going for a not guaranteed kill to frame so everyone remains a suspect.

It's impossible to go through every scenario, I'll just try a few to see how much info we'd get.

Assume Sonatora is scum and killed me, beeboy is Quack and killed CTh.
What we see: Drezi dies, CTh dies. Player's left: Beeboy, Navi, Sonatora, Sakura.
Possible wrong cases
-Beeboy is scum and killed CTh + Sonatora is Quack / I was weak doc and Sonatora was jailed or VT.
-Navi is scum and killed me + Sonatora is VT or Quack, CTh is weak doc / Beeboy is Quack, Sonatora VT.
...there are probably more I got tired at this point.

If someone does more cases that would be welcome, from my small sample it looks like there are too many factors, and we can't really pintpoint scum this way.
Drezi
Even if it doesn't give that much info, there's not much of a drawback to doing it though, since if CTh is scum than probably beeboy is the killing role and he'll just kill CTh, so we still win. Except if Navi is the Quack/CPR and Sonatora is Jailer, or I am the Quack/CPR and Navi is the Jailer (around 10%?). In that case Beeboy/Sakura dies + someone can get NK-d. Welp.
Drezi
But if it IS beeboy I can still possibly Jail his kill and then we don't win even if it's CTh..
beeboy123
If I was scum I would have hammered to stop discussion
Sakura
Scum doesn't know which doctors protect and which don't either, so they will either kill the one that's certainly to not be protected or may try shoot at someone else, either way the night actions will show us who the scum is, imma go back to the Medical Mafia i played on MS and see how the actions went down to find scum.
Sakura
Looking over Medical Mafia on MS it seems the original plan was to target whoever was below then it got somehow changed

Drezi > Navizel
beeboy > CTh
CTh > Sonatora
Navizel > Sakura
Sakura > Drezi
Sonatora > beeboy

This will break it up into 2 circles, since beeboy's scumreading CTh he shouldnt have any issues having the chance of getting him killed.
Sakura
Or is Navizel, well i scumread him too but i know so far that im not a killer so w/e.
Anyway, Please let me know if you like it like this or if there's any changes you want to make to the targetting.
beeboy123
Wait so you want us to vote no-lynch?
beeboy123
Why hope I can randomly kill CTh when I can just lynch him
Sakura
If we mislynch and take 3 deaths it's game over, it's up to everyone in the end.
Sakura
I do want everyone to make clear who they are targetting regardless so if they die we know who they were targetting.
beeboy123
We can't take 3 deaths though it is 2 at max
beeboy123
everyone claimed targets so weak doctor is potentially already dead
beeboy123
We also learn if it was a mislynch during the d so we can replan to avoid having 3x deaths
beeboy123

beeboy123 wrote:

We can't take 3 deaths though it is 2 at max
This is false, but

Scenario where we get 3 deaths as shows. I killed off doctor for the purpose of this scenario.

2 of the deaths we had (Both the Lynch and Mislynch) are on the 3/6 non lethal roles which is already very low

After that we all need to target perfectly without any of the lethal doctors or scum being jailed (which is 4/5 roles) which we can also predict. On top of the fact we can change our plans in the twilight phase.
beeboy123
Killing of doctor also assumes that non of the lethal roles have no been lynched.
beeboy123
god I really should have read these posts over before posting them ;-;
Sakura
2 doctors are dead, Nurse inherited the first one's, the other one targeted CBot so they have a killing ability, so weak doctor is still alive.
beeboy123
Nurse got the power of a mod killed doctor so it is more likely to be a safe doctor than a lethal one
beeboy123
If this is helpful roleclaim: Nurse
Sakura

beeboy123 wrote:

Nurse got the power of a mod killed doctor so it is more likely to be a safe doctor than a lethal one
Why?
beeboy123

beeboy123 wrote:

Nurse got the power of a mod killed doctor so it is more likely to be a safe doctor than a lethal one
Wait this makes no sense
beeboy123
My logic was 2 scum, 7 doctors, 3 scum roles 3/7 chance.
Sakura
In either case that would make you easily conf town since there's only 1 nurse in the game unless the last scum or the real nurse wants to counter claim that.
beeboy123
I feel like we get no-where doing nothing. Higher chance of 3 doctor kills + scum kill 2v1 me and sona are the ones that live and we are both to shit and get tricked by scum.
Sakura
did you read my post where i show all possible night kills?

Weak
CPR
Quak
Mafia

We know one of the CPR or Quak is dead.

Weak
CPR/Quak
Mafia

Those are all 3 possible kills tonight on a worst case scenario.
beeboy123
As much as I want to lynch someone I agree with your logic


Vote: No Lynch
Sakura
I still prefer to hear from everyone else, if the rest don't like this plan then i'll just hammer CTh. If they agree then i'll vote No Lynch.
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