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Navizel

EneT wrote:

Navizel wrote:

competitive what? smogon? vgc 15/16?
smogon obvs; vgc mostly consists of weird double battles.
meh. I like VGC more cause it's much more fast-paced. But yes, Clefable is viable now since it became a Fairy and got a +10 on SpA. Heck, even Clefairy is viable in VGC because of Friend Guard.



btw do steps count toward egg hatching when you're offline in Pokemon Go?
Hika
nope @ Navi

I don't think it has background app refresh properly enabled but that's just what I think
Cause I haven't tried
Blazevoir
Another unannounced trailer:

Razzy
I think Stufful just made my heart melt <3

also, no, you have to have the app open on your screen in order for distance to count
Lanturn
Well I just found my favorite fighting type for this Gen... And I don't mean that cute little bear. It's got a tag sticking out of its butt.

Sandcastles look great still. I love the shovel that spins on Palossand's head.

ps. Someone should really update the opening post.

http://www.pokemon-sunmoon.com
Blazevoir
I can't do that anymore, orz...
EneT
lol, this full team Mega-Lopunny sweep I did was pretty funny.
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-421526629

Oh yeah if anyone here has competitive knowledge/experience I would appreciate some help by rating my pokemon team. Missing 2 generations of competitive has just made me an absolutely clueless, terribad player and ever since I started playing again I've made a bunch of horrible teams. This is the first Mega Lopunny-based team I've made; I've only made Mega Gardevoir and Zard X based teams prior to this one.
Fresh Jordans (Lopunny-Mega) (F) @ Lopunnite
Ability: Limber
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- High Jump Kick
- Return
- Fake Out
- Ice Punch

Flame Nommer (Heatran) @ Leftovers
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Lava Plume
- Toxic
- Protect
- Stealth Rock

KFC (Talonflame) (M)
Ability: Gale Wings
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Acrobatics
- Roost
- Swords Dance
- Taunt

Magic Mike (Amoonguss) (M) @ Black Sludge
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 248 HP / 168 Def / 92 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Spore
- Giga Drain
- Sludge Bomb
- Clear Smog

Anal Plug (Excadrill) (M) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Mold Breaker
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- Iron Head
- Rock Slide
- Rapid Spin

Cancer (Clefable) (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Unaware
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Moonblast
- Heal Bell
- Wish
- Protect
Navizel
KFC (Talonflame) (M)
Ability: Gale Wings
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Acrobatics
- Roost
- Swords Dance
- Taunt
uhhhh. 120 of BB>110 of Acrobatics. No items is terrible. You might as well use Hawlucha instead of Talonflame. Not sure about SD.. try overheat/flare blitz.

EneT wrote:

lol, this full team Mega-Lopunny sweep I did was pretty funny.
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-421526629
not sure about the Fake Out on Turn 12. Mega Lopunny is faster anyway.
EneT
You should pretty much use Fake Out whenever you can; it has priority+3 and will always flinch the enemy, doesn't matter if it's not effective, it's close to a no counterplay move that can only be used the first turn the user is in battle.


The purpose of the Talonflame is to be a priority attacker and kill the things Mega Lopunny has trouble killing such as Keldeo and Tech Breloom. Reason I don't go BB/Flare Blitz is because Acrobatics along with stealth rock support is enough to OHKO the things I need Talonflame to kill. I also don't need Flare Blitz since I don't really need a fire type move other than the Lava Plume Heatran has; any threat that has a weakness to fire such as Scizor or grass types are walled off by my team, anything else is dealt by Mega Lopunny and Choice Scarf Excadrill. The Talonflame isn't supposed to function as a sweeper, it's a priority user/revenge killer that I need alive to support Mega Lopunny, so unnecessary damage from recoil on a pokemon that is already easy to kill is unneeded. I go for HP EVs instead of Speed EVs because it already has priority with Gale Wings and the HP allows it to be a pivot into steel types forcing them to switch out, believing I have OHKO capability with Flare Blitz.

TL;DR It's a counter to Mega Lopunny's counters.
Also, isn't Overheat a special move? Would be weird to make Talonflame a mixed attacker.

I've tried playing with a team a high ranking player gave me and I've reached 1600 elo with it(Pro status is around 1800+) so my game knowledge is still there, I'm just lacking in teambuilding because all the X&Y pokemon are new to me and all the new moves/type weakness changes/megas are something I still need getting used to.
Endaris
If you use a pokemon with acrobatics for competitive you should definitely use a flying gem over no item as the gem will be consumed before the game checks whether or not you hold an item.
EneT
I see, thank you; never knew such an item existed because I stopped playing sometime before the B&W gen. Will do.

Oh Flying Gem is banned in OU tier. Makes sense since it sounds OP as hell.
PyaKura
Except Gems are long gone ever since 6G, so no. Else Acrobatics Talonflame would be a lot more common (it is already the most used set anyways, but Flying Gem is a free nuke able to break past anything that does not resist it).

From my experience I find Taunt on bulky SD Talon to be a bit lackluster versus more offensive teams (which I end up against a lot more frequently than balance or stall) so I like to run Apicot/Salac Natural Gift (ground/fighting) to bait things that normally counters it such as Heatran among other things, but that also means I gotta use Brave Bird for consistency if there is no need for Natural Gift. The former is especially an issue for me so this variant works a bit better for me than regular w/ Taunt, and it basically makes Heatran a setup fodder. Note that I play with a Bulky Offense team which forces a lot of switches to begin with to rack up SR damage and considering that it usually affords to tank a few hits from resisted moves (only issue being if the berry gets accidentally consumed...), I use it to break past through any last Steel wall in my way after SD and Roost if necessary, and finish the sweep with BB spam.

I mean the most common Talon counters and checks are pretty much all weak to Ground and/or Fighting, and the only downside you get fromnot Taunting is maybe getting paralyzed which is meh because Gale Wings anyways.

Overheat is cool if you don't want recoil damage I guess? Idk it sounds iffy but it should work versus Scizor, maybe?
Navizel

EneT wrote:

You should pretty much use Fake Out whenever you can; it has priority+3 and will always flinch the enemy, doesn't matter if it's not effective, it's close to a no counterplay move that can only be used the first turn the user is in battle.
When you're going to win anyway what's the point? Not like Heatran has any priority move and protect isn't really a common move in Singles.

The purpose of the Talonflame is to be a priority attacker and kill the things Mega Lopunny has trouble killing such as Keldeo and Tech Breloom. Reason I don't go BB/Flare Blitz is because Acrobatics along with stealth rock support is enough to OHKO the things I need Talonflame to kill. I also don't need Flare Blitz since I don't really need a fire type move other than the Lava Plume Heatran has; any threat that has a weakness to fire such as Scizor or grass types are walled off by my team, anything else is dealt by Mega Lopunny and Choice Scarf Excadrill. The Talonflame isn't supposed to function as a sweeper, it's a priority user/revenge killer that I need alive to support Mega Lopunny, so unnecessary damage from recoil on a pokemon that is already easy to kill is unneeded. I go for HP EVs instead of Speed EVs because it already has priority with Gale Wings and the HP allows it to be a pivot into steel types forcing them to switch out, believing I have OHKO capability with Flare Blitz.

TL;DR It's a counter to Mega Lopunny's counters.
Also, isn't Overheat a special move? Would be weird to make Talonflame a mixed attacker.
Eh. sounds like a waste of slot. Latios? Gengar? Hawlucha? Zapdos if you will.
Regarding Overheat Tflame.


EneT wrote:

I see, thank you; never knew such an item existed because I stopped playing sometime before the B&W gen. Will do.

Oh Flying Gem is banned in OU tier. Makes sense since it sounds OP as hell.
Gems don't even exist in Gen 6 except for Normal Gem but you're better off using Life Orb than that thing.
EneT

Navizel wrote:

When you're going to win anyway what's the point? Not like Heatran has any priority move and protect isn't really a common move in Singles.
Hi jump kick has a 90% accuracy and I've already been traumatised in missing Leaf Storm twice in a row with Serperior so I ain't risking shit. If it misses then mega lopunny gets one shot and she basically did nothing, you might aswell whittle them down on the off-chance you do miss.

Navizel wrote:

Eh. sounds like a waste of slot. Latios? Gengar? Hawlucha? Zapdos if you will.
None of those have priority moves and nearly every single priority move is physical. All those pokemon are special except for Hawlucha and Zapdos is mostly never used as a sweeper and mostly used as a defensive defogger anyways because it only has 100 base speed and poor move coverage to fit it's typing and stats. The purpose of Talonflame in this team is to outspeed those that outspeed Mega Lopunny; Mega Lopunny has a base speed of 135 and all you listed are slower than that. Taking that into consideration, nothing in OU outspeeds Mega Lopunny apart from Mega Manectric who ties in speed, Choice Scarfers and Priority users.

Suggestions on a better priority user and choice scarfer that checks most of these would be much appreciated because I don't really like having a pokemon with 4x weakness to rock in my team. I haven't delved into UU yet which is actually the primary tier I like to play in so maybe there's a better option there?

Navizel wrote:

Gems don't even exist in Gen 6 except for Normal Gem but you're better off using Life Orb than that thing.
Ah ok, I'll stick to acrobatics for this team though. I use Life Orb BB/Flare Blitz offensive SD Talonflame on my other teams but it has no place in this specific team.

PyaKura wrote:

Except Gems are long gone ever since 6G, so no. Else Acrobatics Talonflame would be a lot more common (it is already the most used set anyways, but Flying Gem is a free nuke able to break past anything that does not resist it).

From my experience I find Taunt on bulky SD Talon to be a bit lackluster versus more offensive teams (which I end up against a lot more frequently than balance or stall) so I like to run Apicot/Salac Natural Gift (ground/fighting) to bait things that normally counters it such as Heatran among other things, but that also means I gotta use Brave Bird for consistency if there is no need for Natural Gift. The former is especially an issue for me so this variant works a bit better for me than regular w/ Taunt, and it basically makes Heatran a setup fodder. Note that I play with a Bulky Offense team which forces a lot of switches to begin with to rack up SR damage and considering that it usually affords to tank a few hits from resisted moves (only issue being if the berry gets accidentally consumed...), I use it to break past through any last Steel wall in my way after SD and Roost if necessary, and finish the sweep with BB spam.

I mean the most common Talon counters and checks are pretty much all weak to Ground and/or Fighting, and the only downside you get fromnot Taunting is maybe getting paralyzed which is meh because Gale Wings anyways.

Overheat is cool if you don't want recoil damage I guess? Idk it sounds iffy but it should work versus Scizor, maybe?
Would you say will-o-wisp is a better option than taunt or do you use an acrobatics-BB combo? I don't like teams that rely on a pokemon that takes half health from switching into stealth rock, not that anyone would do that but it's a hassle to spin/defog it off; adds another element of hassle. I'm actually surprised a pokemon like Talonflame is in OU tier, back in DP days you'd never see a pokemon with a 4x weakness to rock in OU.
Navizel
Hi jump kick has a 90% accuracy and I've already been traumatised in missing Leaf Storm twice in a row with Serperior so I ain't risking shit. If it misses then mega lopunny gets one shot and she basically did nothing, you might aswell whittle them down on the off-chance you do miss.
My point still stands. There's no difference if you use HJK after/before Fake Out. It was a miniscule damage anyway.

The purpose of Talonflame in this team is to outspeed those that outspeed Mega Lopunny
Literally who lmao. Go for Tailwind or something if you're still afraid of that.

Zapdos is mostly never used as a sweeper and mostly used as a defensive defogger anyways because it only has 100 base speed.
Doesn't mean you can't. It has Heat Wave for Breloom and Tbolt for Keldeo. If you really don't want to then go for Thundurus.

I'm actually surprised a pokemon like Talonflame is in OU tier
gale wings
EneT
It still gets hit for half health if you switch it into stealth rock though.

Choice scarfers and priority users outspeed Lopunny. On the team my friend gave I primarily use the choice scarfed Landorus-T to handle Mega Lopunny.

Navizel wrote:

My point still stands. There's no difference if you use HJK after/before Fake Out. It was a miniscule damage anyway.
10% isn't miniscule and a lot of times can decide a game. If High Jump Kick missed lopunny would have died and I would have nothing to beat that Heatran well as it walled the rest of my team apart from Excadrill who was dead. The reason why stealth rock is so good and needed in pretty much every team is because it better guarantees a OHKO so you don't have to rely on a low/high roll on moves that sit on the 80-100% mark. If you don't know what I mean by that, every move does not have a guaranteed set damage, the damage you do is also based on luck because there's a minimum and a maximum and the game rolls to determine what damage you get. Alot of moves sit at the 80-100% damage possibility mark so stealth rock helps with that. That being said, 10% is definitely not miniscule.

Here's a good example I found. As you can see Outrage has a chance of dealing 86.9 - 102.1% damage and by clicking on it you can see the probability of it being OHKO is only 18.8%


Earth quake on the other hand only does 10% more damage but by clicking on it you can see:

It has an 81.3% chance of being an OHKO. It may only be a 10% difference in damage but it's a massive increase in chance so whoever says 10% damage is miniscule in pokemon is wrong.
Navizel
Of course I know lol. Do you really think I don't know that even though I play competitive. Not sure what's the comparison for. Obviously EQ does more cause it's super effective to Raikou. Yeah SR and other entry hazards are annoying but that's why you have Excadrill right? Also without SR Tflame can sweep most of the pokemon in the meta before they can even move because priority Brave Bird.
EneT
Exactly the reason why I chose it as my priority move user.
PyaKura
@EneT yes WoW is a solid spammable move early game when you don't wanna predict switches, but in my case I already have M-Gardevoir as a burn spreader. Really depends on which physical sweepers may cause you trouble though. And no I don't run BB + Acrobatics, the damage difference is negligible and I prefer a situational Natural Gift over replacing any other moves apart from Taunt. But as I said this is only because my team allows me to do so, I have not taken a close look to your team so idk. Taunt is obviously a good move if you are confident you can eliminate what stands in Talonflame's way, unlike me lol.

Also Ho-oh has 4x rocks and was/is Uber. Ninjask back in DPPt was OU (okay, it was a suicide BP lead). Well nowadays a lot of the new Pokémon (including Megas) have either insane stats and/or abilities so the tradeoff is well worth it (off the top of my head Talon and M-Pinsir). I'm only a bit disappointed by the limited number of spinners available to support SR-weak mons as I find Defog clunky to use, especially since I like to lay down mine right off the bat and phaze like a bitch until enough hazard damage is done.
EneT
Okay, thank you.

Ho-oh's overly bulky stats allowed it to switch into SR though and thus made it a must ban, especially if you were running a toxic stall Ho-oh with recover/roost.
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